TOYOTA GAZOO Racing WRT

[KiwiWRCfan]

1,000 words

[EstWRC]

but here they look very happy KiwiWRC ;)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJ0Ig-fXYAUd-rJ?format=jpg&name=medium

[TypeR]

Except Järveoja :D

[er88]

I wonder if Toyota/ Tommi managed to convince Ogier to maybe sign up for more than just one year?

Ofcourse that would go against everything Ogier has said, but maybe the lure of driving that Yaris has been an incentive to stick around a bit longer.

[reff92]

I wonder if Toyota/ Tommi managed to convince Ogier to maybe sign up for more than just one year?

Ofcourse that would go against everything Ogier has said, but maybe the lure of driving that Yaris has been an incentive to stick around a bit longer.
I dont think so. He is not so strong and stable anymore . Only reason why Toyota hired him is to get title(s) back to the team but as we know. Its hard when car is crap and as Ott sayd in RACC that rivals are making strong progress and his really need to push to keep ahead.
Toyota is somehow backed to the corner with that move. When they have no real lead driver then it would be hard to explain why to be in wrc.

[mknight]

The team dynamic between Ogier and Tommi+Mia will certainly be very interesting to follow next year.

[pantealex]

That´s "old" yaris 2017 with Finnish reg-plate, all cars this year had Estonian plates.

edit.
Actually it´s chassis #6 (SP-1006 this year), last used in Rally Turkey by JML , but still original 2017.

[dimviii]

why the deal Toyota Ogier havent announced yet,after citroen withdrawal?

[EstWRC]

tomorrow the reports say

[AnttiL]

Maybe they postponed it after the
Märtin interview?

Today, TGR’s official twitter account liked and quickly unliked my silly season tweet from last week which predicted Ogier, Evans and Rovanperä to drive for Toyota :D

[EstWRC]

well they cant keep it secret for long because they have to start with testing and preparations for next year

[Eli]

well they cant keep it secret for long because they have to start with testing and preparations for next year

When do they start testing for Monte?

[EstWRC]

When do they start testing for Monte?

i have no idea but usually they do the first Monte test in december before christmas and second in the beginning of January.

Tänak had his first test with Toyota on the first week of december two years ago, Meeke too.

So with that pattern they should start next week.

[dimviii]

When do they start testing for Monte?

last year was from 6-7 December to 22-23.
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140662/latvala-crash-interrupts-toyota-testing

[meh]

Maybe they postponed it after the Märtin interview?

What would be the logic behind that? I can not see any reason or impact from Märtin interview.

[AnttiL]

What would be the logic behind that? I can not see any reason or impact from Märtin interview.

To me it felt like the interview was deliberately released on Monday in order to ruin Toyota's big announcement day, and as we saw, all the rallying world just talked about the Märtin interview. Now, they postpone it for two days and the dust has settled a bit.

Anyway, that's just my own theory.

[reff92]

To me it felt like the interview was deliberately released on Monday in order to ruin Toyota's big announcement day, and as we saw, all the rallying world just talked about the Märtin interview. Now, they postpone it for two days and the dust has settled a bit.

Anyway, that's just my own theory.

Please Finns get already over that. There was no release planned on Monday. We have some info it would be made up for the public tommorow.

[Allez Andruet]

Please Finns get already over that. There was no release planned on Monday.

You asked Tommi?

[Crazy J]

well they cant keep it secret for long because they have to start with testing and preparations for next year

No pressure there, they have drivers selected for Monte testing, it will be Lampi, Makinen and Hanninen..

[AnttiL]

There was no release planned on Monday.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/147270/ogier-explains-decision-to-walk-away-from-citroen


As previously outlined on Autosport, Ogier will be revealed as a Toyota WRC driver alongside Elfyn Evans and Kalle Rovanpera on Monday.

And no, this is not the only place where I heard it.

[Tarmop]

Reff, stop being silly now...

[reff92]

Reff, stop being silly now...

I try to behave better.

Just there is very variantion of information and all what is published in autosport.com is not 100% true it would happen.

Lets hope and keep our finger crossed that at least today is the day. Or someone has some other information?

[jcevc]

JML with reduced program in Toyota in 2020.
Source: facebook of Gabriele Favero (organiser of Prealpi Master Show in Italy, long time friend of JML)

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKYL_uiWkAMv_dW?format=png&name=small



https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC/status/1199659360173076482?s=20

[ceemic]

Done and confirmed:
https://www.facebook.com/TOYOTAGAZOORacingWRC/posts/870866893315497

[Katvala]

Therehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191127/7d030bfb287560ed1f056844b78a1518.jpg

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11076111

Mäkinen says they did not buy Ogier out from Citroen

[reff92]

Just like i sayd.....

[AnttiL]

JML with reduced program in Toyota in 2020.
Source: facebook of Gabriele Favero (organiser of Prealpi Master Show in Italy, long time friend of JML)

so he will rent a car for Sweden/Finland?

[RaunoK]

To me it felt like the interview was deliberately released on Monday in order to ruin Toyota's big announcement day, and as we saw, all the rallying world just talked about the Märtin interview. Now, they postpone it for two days and the dust has settled a bit.

Anyway, that's just my own theory.

Eesti Päevaleht usually releases bigger interviews and articles on Mondays, nothing deliberate there.

[denkimi]

Congatulations to ogier for winning his 7th world title.
And congatulations to hyundai for winning their second constructors title.

[doubled1978]

Glad to see Rovanpera get the drive, much as I like Meeke for his speed and character, this kid is the future.

[RS]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11076111

Mäkinen says they did not buy Ogier out from Citroen

Does not mean a lot.. they could have just paid Ogier enough so Ogier can pay off Citroen.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Does not mean a lot.. they could have just paid Ogier enough so Ogier can pay off Citroen.

Exactly - Citroen did not just let Ogier break his contract and go to Toyota for free.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toyota thanks Latvala, plus Podcast on Toyota announcement:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/147373/toyota-thanks-latvala-for-wrc-programme-influence

[deephouse]

Toyota thanks Latvala, plus Podcast on Toyota announcement:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/147373/toyota-thanks-latvala-for-wrc-programme-influence

That's quite a good article. Better than farewell for Tanak I think. That's why Japanese praise him so much.

[abcrally]

Latvala just said at Yle's interview that he is now working to drive 2-5 rallies with Toyota in 2020.
However the Japanese boss already said "Goodbye" to JML.

[greencroft]

That's quite a good article. Better than farewell for Tanak I think. That's why Japanese praise him so much.

Agreed and it puts the Citroen PR team to shame for their spinning last week.

[EstWRC]

That's quite a good article. Better than farewell for Tanak I think. That's why Japanese praise him so much.

of course it is, one decided to left you, the other was left behind by you, so you have to "compensate" somehow


this relationship between Ogier and Tommis team will be very interesting for me, after hearing what all went on there the last two years.

[AnttiL]

Latvala says he won’t go to M-Sport, instead tried to get up to five rallies with Toyota

He hopes to get his seat back in 2021.


https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11090228

[the sniper]

Five rallies seems like a random number, unless Katsuta is lined up to do nine rallies? A Japanese sponsored 4th car would be nice, seeing as the junior team isn't happening...

[AnttiL]

Five rallies seems like a random number, unless Katsuta is lined up to do nine rallies? A Japanese sponsored 4th car would be nice, seeing as the junior team isn't happening...

I disagree. Katsuta's program is supposedly all European events and Japan. For sure it's cheaper for Toyota to deploy five cars on an European event than four cars overseas. Besides, Latvala is probably funding his drives somehow. Five rallies could be what he has budget for, or what resources Toyota can offer.

[steve.mandzij]

Latvala says he won’t go to M-Sport, instead tried to get up to five rallies with Toyota

He hopes to get his seat back in 2021.


https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11090228Hopes like Ostberg, Mikkelsen, Paddon? Full retirement imminent unless he drives Sweden, Finland, Wales and blitzes the opposition.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

JML is staying with the TGR team and even hopes to return in 2021 if his pace is still good on his 2020 outings.

Maybe the three new driver's in the Yaris WRC may find it useful to have a driver experienced with the car to be around.

[deephouse]

Why would he help them? He would shot in his leg doing that. Evans would develop and Rovanpera too. Why would they hire Latvala again if they would be better than him?

[BobJones]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11076111

Mäkinen says they did not buy Ogier out from Citroen

But crucially, doesn't mention buying out Meeke.

[mknight]

I also really wonder how Ogier's demands fot perfection will work at Toyota. Especially when he is there for just one year.

Martin mentioned that he doesn't see Toyota as "factory" team. I would guess this has to do with trying to earn money (see Tänak's Sardinia steering issue). Real factory team has results as only focus.

[go mads]

Massive gamble for me by toyota, 3 all new drivers, one, undoubtedly still one of the quickest but in his final year and because of that wont think twice about criticising any problems team may have, two, strange one for me elfyn is, done lots of seasons rarely challenging for wins, and three, a newbie who has undoubtedly is fast but will feel pressure from the start.

I would have let meeke/latvala share third car and gone with same tactics as Hyundai

[tomhlord]

Strange one for me elfyn is, done lots of seasons rarely challenging for wins

He'll happily play number two to Ogier and bag manufacturer points.

[go mads]

He'll happily play number two to Ogier and bag manufacturer points.
I'm sure though at the moment jari or kris would happily play number 2 and be able to turn the wick up when required whilst keeping some continuity in the team

[AnttiL]

Martin mentioned that he doesn't see Toyota as "factory" team. I would guess this has to do with trying to earn money (see Tänak's Sardinia steering issue). Real factory team has results as only focus.

I thought it referred to the actual setup with Tommi Mäkinen Racing building and running the cars and just being funded by the Toyota factory as opposed to Citroen and Hyundai where the teams are/were owned by the factory?

[drive]

And how many point did meeke or latvala brought this year in 'the fastest car' in comparison to 'unproven' evans in a slower ford?.... that said, maybe Toyota wasnt THE fastest, just tanak was the fastest, as his teammates didnt shine on points scoring... well, we'll see next year, dont we? :)

[mknight]

He'll happily play number two to Ogier and bag manufacturer points.

The risky part with Evans is that he basically never ever drove a different car than an MSport one, be it R5 or WRC.

[Portimao]

According Ogier, why did he actually leave M-Sport for Citroen last year?

[AnttiL]

I disagree. Katsuta's program is supposedly all European events and Japan. For sure it's cheaper for Toyota to deploy five cars on an European event than four cars overseas. Besides, Latvala is probably funding his drives somehow. Five rallies could be what he has budget for, or what resources Toyota can offer.

And like I guessed, Latvala says here he needs to start gathering sponsors and the more budget he can get, the more rallies he can drive.

https://www.rallit.fi/jari-matti-latvala-suunnittelee-viiden-mm-rallin-ohjelmaa-jos-et-aja-sinut-unohdetaan/

He mentions Sweden and Finland, as well as Portugal, Sardegna and Wales.

[AnttiL]

I'm not sure if this is something only said to Finnish press but Mäkinen says that "we haven't decided on a number one driver, everyone is on the same line (equal)" :D

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11076111

[EstWRC]

According Ogier, why did he actually leave M-Sport for Citroen last year?

if i remember correctly then public ones where lack of money from Wilson to pay for Ogier and not enough support from Ford (not being a factory team, Ogier was very vocal about it especially in 2018, how ironic it sounds now after his year in citroen)

[dimviii]

I'm not sure if this is something only said to Finnish press but Mäkinen says that "we haven't decided on a number one driver, everyone is on the same line (equal)" :D

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11076111

maybe this is targeting to Tanak/Martin requirements?

[meh]

The risky part with Evans is that he basically never ever drove a different car than an MSport one, be it R5 or WRC.

It was kind of the same with Tänak before going to Toyota from M-Sport

[meh]

maybe this is targeting to Tanak/Martin requirements?

Based on Märtin's interview, there wasn't any no 1 requirement - and there was no need for that.

[er88]

The thing with the toyota, is it's the most driveable car across all surfaces. Maybe not best, or fastest, but most driveable. Ogier will love that after driving the C3, which is the opposite

[Tarmop]

He has to set it up on all of those surfaces according to his liking first of all...that may or may not take time.

[Grutz]

Good choice by Makenin with Ogier and Rovenpera. Not sure about Evans. While has has shown good pace occasionally (Corsica a couple of times, Argentina once and GB as his home rally) I still have never really rated him. I would put Meeke, Lappi, Mikkelsen, Paddon and Latvala all ahead of him with regards to talent! I do think Latvala has had his chance thou and would select Evans ahead of him now.

[Oraamat]

Funny how diferently people are seeing things. For me Evans is very good choise because he is best of the Top 3, i would never hire Latvala or Meeke, but others see exactlt opposite.

[racerx1979]

Why is that I went to edit my post and it deleted them using mobile... Fuggin hell!!!

So I will summarize what I've heard. So far JML only for Finland via Toyota. They are also trying for Sweden but it adds a twist since they've already prepared budgets and logistics for Sweden and adding a fourth car is not easy.

I was told late in 2017 that while JML is extremely talented and capable, his outside life (his ex) was very toxic for him and would not allow him to fully focus. People on the team could clearly see it. She's gone now and he can finally focus on a few rallies if he gets the chance. I'm not sure how many sponsors JML can round up, but hopefully enough. Too bad for JML...

If M- Sport gave him a full season I would take it, but I think he knows his chances are slim. 3-5 drives at M Sport vs TGR... I'll stay with the team.

[Katvala]

I wish him the best. He is one of the most likeable personalities in rallying, and I hope he will be able to come back for some rounds next year, and then fully back again in 21 as he was hoping for

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[abcrally]

Why is that I went to edit my post and it deleted them using mobile... Fuggin hell!!!

So I will summarize what I've heard. So far JML only for Finland via Toyota. They are also trying for Sweden but it adds a twist since they've already prepared budgets and logistics for Sweden and adding a fourth car is not easy.


Sweden should not create any problems really as the event is 2,5 months away... Sweden is close to Finland so logistics is not the issue. And budget comes via JML.

Actually JML's possible entry could be 5th car from Toyota as Katsuta is going to drive there too! And we must remember that all events JML would do they are not under TGR team but Tommi Mäkinen Racing.

[meh]

Actually JML's possible entry could be 5th car from Toyota as Katsuta is going to drive there too! And we must remember that all events JML would do they are not under TGR team but Tommi Mäkinen Racing.

It will be interesting. If Latvala is doing some rallies with TGR, I bet those are not tarmac rallies. It means, he has really good start position and may be in good position to challenge win for some rally. If Latvala is doing some rally, it's not for scoring points for himself or team anymore. Nothing to loose. Now, could he be allowed by Tommi "no-team-orders" Mäkinen to win (or take away points in general) when fight is with Ogier or Evans?

[mknight]

Wonder if there are any question asked about Toyota lineup in Finnish press and/or directly to Tommi?

Cause on paper the lineup doesn't stand a chance for manu title vs Tänak, Neuville, Sordo/Loeb/etc.

Or is there just miracle belief in Rovanpera?

[Allez Andruet]

Now, could he be allowed by Tommi "no-team-orders" Mäkinen to win (or take away points in general) when fight is with Ogier or Evans?

Ofcourse not. Whatever paper they would sign, it's for sure included in there that under no circumstances can Latvala (or anyone else) finish right in front of any of the TGR guys.

[Allez Andruet]

on paper the lineup doesn't stand a chance for manu title vs Tänak, Neuville, Sordo/Loeb/etc.

On paper Toyota had no chance for any success in 2017.

[meh]

Ofcourse not. Whatever paper they would sign, it's for sure included in there that under no circumstances can Latvala (or anyone else) finish right in front of any of the TGR guys.

So, what is the motivation for JML then? To agree before start that he can not win does not sound like a motivation package :)

[AnttiL]

I think it would still prove enough for the team bosses - especially the Toyota team boss, since that's where he aims to drive in 2021.

[reff92]

I think it would still prove enough for the team bosses - especially the Toyota team boss, since that's where he aims to drive in 2021.
Good point because ogier contract is only 1 year and thats it. So very good point make some rounds and stay in the picture with positive vibes.

[the sniper]

I still don't really understand why Tommi would chose to put Rovanpera in the third car, rather than a fourth car. It can't be a money issue. It's just put unnecessary pressure on Rovanpera at an early point in his career which could be counter productive in the short to medium term. At this point, it's this issue too that raises the greatest doubt for me that they can win the Manufacturer title next year. Why take the risk?

[jacko]

Maybe it is some old news but couldn't find it here; Rovanperä in action with the Yaris WRC at the Arctic Rallye (16-18 January), so 1 week before rally Monte-Carlo..

[er88]

I think Tommi genuinely thinks Kalle can do something incredible, and that he is a potential generational talent like Loeb/Ogier. He seems to have that much belief in him. I also think Tommi wants a Finn in the main team, in fact he's even said that (and rates Rovanpera higher than Lappi and Suninen, and now Latvala).

It does put a lot of pressure on Kalle though. Monte, Mexico, Chile and Argentina is a very tough set of specific events to start the year, especially for someone making a step up into the top class. It's even more tough in a team that HAS to challenge for both titles.

I think the lineup also puts more pressure on Evans, who I really hope can live with it. He is going to have to do a lot better than last year and cut out his mistakes, if Toyota can even get close to Hyundai with Neuville/ Tanak + Loeb/ Sordo with great road position. And as well as cutting out mistakes, he will have to improve his pace across the whole year as well. Fingers crossed as I'm delighted he's got this opportunity.

[mknight]

On paper Toyota had no chance for any success in 2017.

It's not like they had that much success in 2017 either.

Anyway there is a huge difference, now they are ordered by Toyoda to win both titles. Seems like your reply is a good answer to my question then. Finnish people are hoping for magic Rovanpera skills.





It does put a lot of pressure on Kalle though. Monte, Mexico, Chile and Argentina is a very tough set of specific events to start the year, especially for someone making a step up into the top class. It's even more tough in a team that HAS to challenge for both titles.


Add to that Kenya and Japan.

Both in 2018 and 2019 overseas rallies were those were Lappi and Suninen were often completely lost... minutes behind with no big issues. Overseas new rallies are even worse cause new drivers don't have experience to build on and they can't watch onboards of others from previous years.

[deephouse]

Man I wonder if driving private Toyota now is good choice. I mean can official TGR team bring him slower car just to not interfere with their main drivers? What will bosses from HQ say if Latvala will be flying and beating all three of them?

[AnttiL]

Man I wonder if driving private Toyota now is good choice. I mean can official TGR team bring him slower car just to not interfere with their main drivers? What will bosses from HQ say if Latvala will be flying and beating all three of them?

You mean, would it make Mäkinen look bad as a team boss when a private driver is faster than the chosen factory drivers? Because in reality Latvala would most likely gain something from giving away the victory to the factory drivers.

[Allez Andruet]

It's not like they had that much success in 2017 either.
Compared to what was expected? Really? I must've missed something during 2017 pre-season then.


Anyway there is a huge difference, now they are ordered by Toyoda to win both titles. Seems like your reply is a good answer to my question then. Finnish people are hoping for magic Rovanpera skills.

Nope. Atleast I'm not expecting anything magical from Rovanperä in 2020. Good stage times here and there, maybe even a podium or two but with the occasional mistake. We'll see. I fully agree that Hyundai is the favorite for the manu title, but we're yet to see how the team dynamics work between Tänak and Neuville. In my view TGR is not that huge dog as it may sound like when adding up 2019 results.

[pantealex]

Kalle can´t be worse than TGR 3rd driver this year...

I also am not expecting any miracles.

[pantealex]

Sweden should not create any problems really as the event is 2,5 months away... Sweden is close to Finland so logistics is not the issue. And budget comes via JML.

Actually JML's possible entry could be 5th car from Toyota as Katsuta is going to drive there too! And we must remember that all events JML would do they are not under TGR team but Tommi Mäkinen Racing.

Spare parts are the problem. Most of those are hand-made, there aren´t any lines which produces "Yaris WRC20" rear spoilers or front wings...

[doubled1978]

I’m quite surprised by the negative comments around Rovanpera getting the drive, while I agree he is young to have such a drive, I think he is well capable of delivering good results. Sure there will be some mistakes, but Toyota/Makinen are well aware of that and have clearly thought that the positives outweigh the negatives.
People keep talking about running a 4th car or whatever, well Katsuta is driving that so your effectively talking about running a 5th car, on their budget..

[meh]

I’m quite surprised by the negative comments around Rovanpera getting the drive, while I agree he is young to have such a drive, I think he is well capable of delivering good results. Sure there will be some mistakes, but Toyota/Makinen are well aware of that and have clearly thought that the positives outweigh the negatives.
People keep talking about running a 4th car or whatever, well Katsuta is driving that so your effectively talking about running a 5th car, on their budget..

Negative comments are against "he is getting pressure/responsibility too early" not "he is getting drive too early".

Yes, pressure is there. So there is also opportunity to show that he can handle it. Question of point of view.

[mknight]

Compared to what was expected? Really? I must've missed something during 2017 pre-season then.

Compared to expectations they did great. Titles are won based on beating competition, not beating expectations



Kalle can´t be worse than TGR 3rd driver this year...

I also am not expecting any miracles.

That is true. However, he is not going to fight previous years 3rd drivers, he is fighting current third drivers at Hyundai - Sordo and Loeb.

Similarly Evans is expected to beat either Neuville or Tänak next year.

[doubled1978]

Negative comments are against "he is getting pressure/responsibility too early" not "he is getting drive too early".

Yes, pressure is there. So there is also opportunity to show that he can handle it. Question of point of view.

I’m a glass half full guy, so I like to see it as a great thing that the hot young talent is in the car, rather than a known quantity of talent unfulfilled (Meeke/Latvala).
If either of those two kept the drive, what would have happened? A few decent results, some amazing stage times, and a lot of 6/7/8 place finishes and maybe a win IF Meeke could get through the right event without a mistake.
I think Rovanpera can do at least as well as that, in fact I think the one with the real pressure in that team is Evans.

[Allez Andruet]

Compared to expectations they did great. Titles are won based on beating competition, not beating expectations

Titles yes, but success is specifically achieved by beating the expectations.

[denkimi]

Spare parts are the problem. Most of those are hand-made, there aren´t any lines which produces "Yaris WRC20" rear spoilers or front wings...
Once you have the molds you can produce as many as you want pretty fast.

There's no magic in building parts, it just requires manhours.

[steve.mandzij]

I’m a glass half full guy, so I like to see it as a great thing that the hot young talent is in the car, rather than a known quantity of talent unfulfilled (Meeke/Latvala).
If either of those two kept the drive, what would have happened? A few decent results, some amazing stage times, and a lot of 6/7/8 place finishes and maybe a win IF Meeke could get through the right event without a mistake.
I think Rovanpera can do at least as well as that, in fact I think the one with the real pressure in that team is Evans.Evans has to win in 2020 to truly prove his worth. His only win has come at the mercy of his Dmacks and of his other two nearlies one of them was also on those tyres. I believe he's got the speed and consistency to become a solid Sordo like figure for Toyota.

I believe he lacks that natural given speed donned upon Tanak, for example, but if he can really wring out every last bit of performance from that Yaris I'd expect him to take a shock victory on some tarmac round.

[the sniper]

Evans has to win in 2020 to truly prove his worth.

Surely he only has to regularly finish just behind Ogier to prove his worth.

[abcrally]

Spare parts are the problem. Most of those are hand-made, there aren´t any lines which produces "Yaris WRC20" rear spoilers or front wings...

True that. But I think Katsuta will run older version anyway if they will now modify Yaris' aero.

[ggg377]

I don't think it will be hard for Evans to outdo Meeke and especially Latvala's performance with the Yaris.

[EstWRC]

of course it isnt hard, he out did them also this year with 3 less events.

next topic please.

[wrc2017]

If we take a look.. Meeke was driving a complete dog, and Citroen made him the fail guy. They then totally re-engineered the car, ran completely out of jokers, put the 6 time WRC champ in it, and he done nothing only complain. Meeke was sitting with his confidence in the gutter.. missed 1/2 a season, then was up against Tanak, who was in his 2nd year in the car, and Latvlala's third. Meeke only made minor mistakes (and seemed to suffer away more than others for a faulty batch of wheels in 1st half of the seaosn) , and was just getting comfortable in car mid season, then was doing events he missed the previous year. He was on Tanak's coat tails for Portugal, Germany, GB and maybe so few others, and was beating him in Finland and Spain until a small mistake. If he had only converted a few of those to a win or few podiums, took the points he 'gave' to Ogier for example, he'd be latched onto the back of the big 3, in his first year in the car. I really do think his 2nd year in Toyota would have been a lot better, but it looks to me like Ogier picked his team mates. Mäkinen has told jounolists that Meeke was confirmed for 2020. People are way too hard on him, OK he makes a mistakes, but its only his will to win. He also suffers from his name being about for years.. but actually only done 3 full season in WRC, and none of them consecutive. He will never ever go down as the 'consistant' be he sure as hell is quick and can on his day.. match anyone.. He sure has place in WRC... as much as any other driver below the top 3.

[T16]

If we take a look.. Meeke was driving a complete dog, and Citroen made him the fail guy. They then totally re-engineered the car, ran completely out of jokers, put the 6 time WRC champ in it, and he done nothing only complain. Meeke was sitting with his confidence in the gutter.. missed 1/2 a season, then was up against Tanak, who was in his 2nd year in the car, and Latvlala's third. Meeke only made minor mistakes (and seemed to suffer away more than others for a faulty batch of wheels in 1st half of the seaosn) , and was just getting comfortable in car mid season, then was doing events he missed the previous year. He was on Tanak's coat tails for Portugal, Germany, GB and maybe so few others, and was beating him in Finland and Spain until a small mistake. If he had only converted a few of those to a win or few podiums, took the points he 'gave' to Ogier for example, he'd be latched onto the back of the big 3, in his first year in the car. I really do think his 2nd year in Toyota would have been a lot better, but it looks to me like Ogier picked his team mates. Mäkinen has told jounolists that Meeke was confirmed for 2020. People are way too hard on him, OK he makes a mistakes, but its only his will to win. He also suffers from his name being about for years.. but actually only done 3 full season in WRC, and none of them consecutive. He will never ever go down as the 'consistant' be he sure as hell is quick and can on his day.. match anyone.. He sure has place in WRC... as much as any other driver below the top 3.

Don't think I can remember reading a post as good as this for a long time.

[deephouse]

You need to be above that to earn a spot in WRC these days. Hanninen shine in second half of the season but was benched after one year. Sure he was there to develop the car but he would still be reliable point scorer if not anything more, who knows. Now we have few guys that doesn't show anythig special but 10th place given by the mistake of others and they are like years away from top in times.

[EstWRC]

Had, could, should, little mistake, if....

[bassist]

If we take a look.. Meeke was driving a complete dog, and Citroen made him the fail guy. They then totally re-engineered the car, ran completely out of jokers, put the 6 time WRC champ in it, and he done nothing only complain. Meeke was sitting with his confidence in the gutter.. missed 1/2 a season, then was up against Tanak, who was in his 2nd year in the car, and Latvlala's third. Meeke only made minor mistakes (and seemed to suffer away more than others for a faulty batch of wheels in 1st half of the seaosn) , and was just getting comfortable in car mid season, then was doing events he missed the previous year. He was on Tanak's coat tails for Portugal, Germany, GB and maybe so few others, and was beating him in Finland and Spain until a small mistake. If he had only converted a few of those to a win or few podiums, took the points he 'gave' to Ogier for example, he'd be latched onto the back of the big 3, in his first year in the car. I really do think his 2nd year in Toyota would have been a lot better, but it looks to me like Ogier picked his team mates. Mäkinen has told jounolists that Meeke was confirmed for 2020. People are way too hard on him, OK he makes a mistakes, but its only his will to win. He also suffers from his name being about for years.. but actually only done 3 full season in WRC, and none of them consecutive. He will never ever go down as the 'consistant' be he sure as hell is quick and can on his day.. match anyone.. He sure has place in WRC... as much as any other driver below the top 3.


Fair and Reasoned comments. Agree completely.

[doubled1978]

If we take a look.. Meeke was driving a complete dog, and Citroen made him the fail guy. They then totally re-engineered the car, ran completely out of jokers, put the 6 time WRC champ in it, and he done nothing only complain. Meeke was sitting with his confidence in the gutter.. missed 1/2 a season, then was up against Tanak, who was in his 2nd year in the car, and Latvlala's third. Meeke only made minor mistakes (and seemed to suffer away more than others for a faulty batch of wheels in 1st half of the seaosn) , and was just getting comfortable in car mid season, then was doing events he missed the previous year. He was on Tanak's coat tails for Portugal, Germany, GB and maybe so few others, and was beating him in Finland and Spain until a small mistake. If he had only converted a few of those to a win or few podiums, took the points he 'gave' to Ogier for example, he'd be latched onto the back of the big 3, in his first year in the car. I really do think his 2nd year in Toyota would have been a lot better, but it looks to me like Ogier picked his team mates. Mäkinen has told jounolists that Meeke was confirmed for 2020. People are way too hard on him, OK he makes a mistakes, but its only his will to win. He also suffers from his name being about for years.. but actually only done 3 full season in WRC, and none of them consecutive. He will never ever go down as the 'consistant' be he sure as hell is quick and can on his day.. match anyone.. He sure has place in WRC... as much as any other driver below the top 3.

I don’t have favourites as I don’t support anyone particularly, I just enjoy the sport. But if I did it would be Meeke, I just like him, and always want him to do well. Nobody wanted him to keep the seat more than me as I too think he ‘could’ do a great job, but looking at it objectively, the mistakes this year in Portugal, Finland and Spain were all very silly and totally needless. He should have been on the podium in all those rallies, and he can only blame himself for not being.
I really hope we haven’t seen the last of him, as his pure speed when it comes together is amazing...

[mknight]

Had, could, should, little mistake, if....

The things that got Meeke fired this year was actually not the mistakes when pushing for something (f.e. in Spain) or the lack of results (one podium...one), it was the mistakes when he had nothing to push for...
Portugal PS crash in first corner when 2nd was already lost. Finland Sunday crash when already in super rally.

Interestingly his final kick from Citroen was for similar situation.

Apart from that I find it a bit special that you write something like this. Before mid-2017 Tanak was all about "had, could, made little mistake...". Sure he was a bit different age.

[Norm75]

Fair and Reasoned comments. Agree completely.

Yes, agree with this too. People tend to forget that Kris has actually had less full seasons than it seems. Evans has had more complete seasons, Tanak too, and it wasnt that long ago that Tanak was prone to putting the car in a ditch, or lake. I think the problem is with Kris that he is always put under a lot of pressure because his future has never been secure. The only time he had a multi year contract, the first year of which, albiet a part season, he seemed to go very well with no pressure, winning a couple of rallies and in contention for the win in a couple of others but for unfortunate misshaps that weren't really driver errors. Then came the pressure of driving a turd, to be rewarded with the sack after two non finishes last year.
Kris started this year in a new car showing great speed, but for rim failures which possibly then led to mistakes trying to chase results he felt he had already deserved this season. It just seems to me that he is always very unlucky, and where the other drivers make mistakes and often get away with it, Kris always seems to pay a heavy price for the smallest of mistakes.

[cali]

The things that got Meeke fired this year was actually not the mistakes when pushing for something (f.e. in Spain) or the lack of results (one podium...one), it was the mistakes when he had nothing to push for...
Portugal PS crash in first corner when 2nd was already lost. Finland Sunday crash when already in super rally.

Interestingly his final kick from Citroen was for similar situation.

Apart from that I find it a bit special that you write something like this. Before mid-2017 Tanak was all about "had, could, made little mistake...". Sure he was a bit different age.Meeke has had a ton of chances, I guess everybody is tired of these ifs by now. Great character, great raw speed but has many downsides. Apparently a lot of team bosses think the same.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[TypeR]

Meeke is 40. If he had been smart, then he should have started the 2019 season controlled and steady.. Securing himself a seat for 2020 not coughing out statements, that he is still in fight for WDC or about ,,team help,, that Ott hasn't done anything for him during the season.. FO!

[Raini]

May be just Toyota got Ogier, and Ogier wanted a teammate who is steady and fast, so he demanded Evans, Kalle had a seat anyway, so Latvala and Meeke got no place in Toyota now.

Remember that Tänak had to fight harder for the title, because Meeke and Latvala were constantly giving away points to competitors. As we can say the same situation was it with Ogier, it was not a good season for Lappi as well. So I think very good and reasonable lineup for Toyota.

[er88]

Had, could, should, little mistake, if....Being a massive Tanak fan you should know all about fine margins, little mistakes and what patience can do. As well as being afforded chance after chance, when you make comments like that.

I think a lot of comments above are fair and measured, nobody is trying to say Meeke is a top 3 driver or that it's a shock he probably won't have a seat next season. But a driver of Meeke's ability should still be in the top class and it will be unfortunate for the sport not to have him in a car, just like it is if Paddon isn't there, if Mikkelsen isn't there, if Ostberg isn't there or Lappi isn't there etc etc. Everyone outside of the top 3 is a good driver and personality, and all offer different things. Some are safe and reliable, some are really fast on their day and can challenge at the front, some have top potential but have lost their way a bit (Lappi, Mikkelsen).

Rallying is all about fine margins for drivers that aren't called Sebastian in this century, so ofcourse people will talk about 'what ifs', 'what could've been' etc. A Tanak fan should know that better than anyone, considering the factors at play that have helped him make it to where he is now (when he could quite have easily gone the other way).

[er88]

Meeke is 40. If he had been smart, then he should have started the 2019 season controlled and steady.. Securing himself a seat for 2020 not coughing out statements, that he is still in fight for WDC or about ,,team help,, that Ott hasn't done anything for him during the season.. FO!As far as I remember he said that once pre season, unless I'm mistaken? Tell me any driver in the wrc who still doesn't have an ambition to be a champion, other than Sordo and Loeb who do half seasons.

You're wrong about Meeke not starting sensibly. A controlled and fast drive in monte, where two broken rims cost him. Sweden - where he has never been good - he drove within himself and got to the finish. Mexico, solid first day from 4th on the road and then produced an incredible stage time and went into the lead on day 2 - only to get a puncture (not from a mistake) which dropped him back. Corsica, a mistake in the recce. Then he went back to crazy Meeke and was really fast or making mistakes. Argentina, led for on day 1 before slipping back. On day 2 he had steering issues, brake failure, a puncture and time penalty which dropped him to 5th. Fought back to overhaul Ogier only to get a puncture on the last stage which cost him a podium (again didn't hit anything).

The problem for Meeke's season came after he started sensibly. He tried to push for results he felt he had merited/missed out on, and that's when you got the silly Portugal/ Finland mistakes that inexplicably chucked away two vital podiums. Add those two podiums to the podiums lost in Mexico and Argentina and it really starts to add up and hurt him and Toyota. You could class Spain as well, but I believe Toyota/Tommi told him to push like crazy as he had to for Toyota's chances in the manufacturers. And when Meeke does that, you know an accident can be round the next corner.

I think that run of Chile/ Portugal/ Sardinia/ Finland is the real disaster of Meeke's season, that he will be kicking himself for. He was genuinely really unlucky in Monte, Mexico and Argentina, but he can only blame himself for the mid season collapse.

[Norm75]

May be just Toyota got Ogier, and Ogier wanted a teammate who is steady and fast, so he demanded Evans, Kalle had a seat anyway, so Latvala and Meeke got no place in Toyota now.

Remember that Tänak had to fight harder for the title, because Meeke and Latvala were constantly giving away points to competitors. As we can say the same situation was it with Ogier, it was not a good season for Lappi as well. So I think very good and reasonable lineup for Toyota.

Evans is a yes man, and will bow to Ogier and support him in his bid for a last drivers championship. Good for Ogier, but to be a wdc you need to have a ruthless streak, you need to believe you are capable of winning and drive for yourself, not for someone else. Meeke and Latvala are both well capable of being as fast as anyone, and have that winning mentality, even if it doesn't work out for them. Evans needs to grow a pair and be his own man, screw Ogier he is on the cusp of retirement.

[AnttiL]

Evans is a yes man, and will bow to Ogier and support him in his bid for a last drivers championship. Good for Ogier, but to be a wdc you need to have a ruthless streak, you need to believe you are capable of winning and drive for yourself, not for someone else. Meeke and Latvala are both well capable of being as fast as anyone, and have that winning mentality, even if it doesn't work out for them. Evans needs to grow a pair and be his own man, screw Ogier he is on the cusp of retirement.

You guys really think it's up to the drivers to decide things like this? To show his "pair", be faster than Ogier on Monte and a few following events. Maybe then Mäkinen tells Ogier to slow down for Evans later in the season.

[Norm75]

You guys really think it's up to the drivers to decide things like this? To show his "pair", be faster than Ogier on Monte and a few following events. Maybe then Mäkinen tells Ogier to slow down for Evans later in the season.

Yes. To Be a world champion you believe you are better than the rest. End of. Did Loeb drive for Citroen thinking he need to support his world champion team mates Sainz and McRae. No . . and became 9 times champ.
Did Ogier believe he had to support Loeb. No, he is 6 times world champ. Other disciplines, MotoGP, did Marquez join Honda as a rookie believing he has to support Pedrosa. No, won in rookie year . . He is 6 times champ. Did Hamilton join McLaren and believe he had to support Alonso. No . . He is 6 times champ.
Do you see as pattern emerging? You need to believe and be ruthless.

[AnttiL]

Yes. To Be a world champion you believe you are better than the rest. End of. Did Loeb drive for Citroen thinking he need to support his world champion team mates Sainz and McRae. No . . and became 9 times champ.
Loeb started his 2003 season with a win ahead of said teammates.


Did Ogier believe he had to support Loeb. No, he is 6 times world champ.
And he had to leave Citroen.

[Allez Andruet]

https://beta.is.fi/ralli/art-2000006325013.html

Finnish media IS reports that Toyota actually didn't have to pay anything to get Ogier released from his Citroen contract. The story claims Ogier handled that part himself, bypassing Budar and negotiated directly with Citroen's top management. If the story's true, Ogier had decided already in August that he would not drive for Citroen in 2020 and started to look for options. Allegedly Ogier convinced the Citroen bosses that they would save a huge amount of money by just releasing him from his contract and eventually that happened. Sounds silly but perfectly fits this silly season we're still living in.

[EstWRC]

Yep. Budar said too that he realized after Germany Ogier doesn’t want to continue.

What a power one guy has.

[Legendaarne]

So Tommi and Ogier conspired from germany onwards

So that means Mäkinen didn't want to sign Tänaks contract.

Märtin wasn't lying

[Allez Andruet]

So Tommi and Ogier conspired from germany onwards

So that means Mäkinen didn't want to sign Tänaks contract.

Märtin wasn't lying

I think that's somewhat hasty conclusion. Yes, it could be that Mäkinen didn't want to sign Tänak's contract, but I find it hard to believe it would have been because of Ogier. Why would Mäkinen prefer the services of Ogier (who's anyway available for only one year) over Tänak's?

What comes to this Märtin/Mäkinen debate, I'm 150% sure that neither one of them is telling the truth as we know it. Ofcourse both sides tell the story as they see it, which usually means that "the truth" is there somewhere in-between.

[Legendaarne]

Yeah

Theres always two sides to a story
Truth is probably somewhere inbetween

Probably both are somewhat at fault 😃

[Norm75]

Loeb started his 2003 season with a win ahead of said teammates.

And he had to leave Citroen.
And both your points go to prove about winning mentality.

[AnttiL]

And both your points go to prove about winning mentality.

So Evans should

1) be faster than Ogier
2) be prepared to leave Toyota if he doesn't obey team orders

like I already said

[Norm75]

So Evans should

1) be faster than Ogier
2) be prepared to leave Toyota if he doesn't obey team orders

like I already said

Yes, if he has real ambitions to be world championship.
2 is moot point though, as Evans has a two year deal and Ogier only 1 as he is retiring, so Evans won't have to leave.

[go mads]

If we take a look.. Meeke was driving a complete dog, and Citroen made him the fail guy. They then totally re-engineered the car, ran completely out of jokers, put the 6 time WRC champ in it, and he done nothing only complain. Meeke was sitting with his confidence in the gutter.. missed 1/2 a season, then was up against Tanak, who was in his 2nd year in the car, and Latvlala's third. Meeke only made minor mistakes (and seemed to suffer away more than others for a faulty batch of wheels in 1st half of the seaosn) , and was just getting comfortable in car mid season, then was doing events he missed the previous year. He was on Tanak's coat tails for Portugal, Germany, GB and maybe so few others, and was beating him in Finland and Spain until a small mistake. If he had only converted a few of those to a win or few podiums, took the points he 'gave' to Ogier for example, he'd be latched onto the back of the big 3, in his first year in the car. I really do think his 2nd year in Toyota would have been a lot better, but it looks to me like Ogier picked his team mates. Mäkinen has told jounolists that Meeke was confirmed for 2020. People are way too hard on him, OK he makes a mistakes, but its only his will to win. He also suffers from his name being about for years.. but actually only done 3 full season in WRC, and none of them consecutive. He will never ever go down as the 'consistant' be he sure as hell is quick and can on his day.. match anyone.. He sure has place in WRC... as much as any other driver below the top 3.

Absolutely spot on....

[Rally Power]

https://beta.is.fi/ralli/art-2000006325013.html
Finnish media IS reports that Toyota actually didn't have to pay anything to get Ogier released from his Citroen contract. The story claims Ogier handled that part himself, bypassing Budar and negotiated directly with Citroen's top management. If the story's true, Ogier had decided already in August that he would not drive for Citroen in 2020 and started to look for options. Allegedly Ogier convinced the Citroen bosses that they would save a huge amount of money by just releasing him from his contract and eventually that happened. Sounds silly but perfectly fits this silly season we're still living in.

That sounds like total BS. Meeke and Citroen went to court for way lower figures than in Ogier case so why on earth should PSA bosses be convinced to let Ogier go without any kind of compensation? Citroen extended for 2 years their WRC program with Ogier playing the central role in it; any court would force Ogier to pay them for breaking the contract. Besides, by signing Ogier PSA lost a major marketing asset like Loeb. For all this, that ‘you’re free to go’ version doesn’t make any sense; it’s probably a way to make us believe that Toyota/Makinen didn’t end paying a fortune to get Ogier and save their faces after Tanak leaving to Hyundai.

[deephouse]

Why did Ogier leave? Ask yourself again.. PSA coud be glad that he even show up to their team after ''that joke of their comitment'' Why did Abu Dhabi leave too? I think for the same reason (milking money and doing nothing about the real problem).

[TypeR]

That joke of commitment? :laugh:
Look at the stats since 2003 and all the WDC and constructor titles + rally wins..
Ogier was in the fight for WDC thru 2019.. he made mistakes, Tänak had car issues..

[Rally Power]

Why did Ogier leave? Ask yourself again.. PSA coud be glad that he even show up to their team after ''that joke of their comitment'' Why did Abu Dhabi leave too? I think for the same reason (milking money and doing nothing about the real problem).

No one forced Ogier to leave MSport and join Citroen. He did it believing it’d be possible to improve the C3 and figth for the title, as he actually managed to do until the last event. Besides, at the end of 2018 Toyota (or Hyundai) doors were closed to him.

Btw, despite the initial attempt to carry on a young talent program in the MERC, it didn’t take long to see that Abu Dhabi Racing was just a way for Al Qassimi to be driving in the WRC. Last year he finally understood it was better for him to run Cross Country events instead of WRC rallys. He’s been using a Peugeot 3008, run by PHSport with Peugeot Sport help.

[EstWRC]

Lmao Mia with the big boss hoodie https://www.instagram.com/p/B5fD6YcJ5pN/?igshid=1hhazttvtuaq5


That’s right of course

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier wasnt happy with Ford's lack of commitment at M-Sport and believed Citroen's was higher as a full factory team.

The main problem was the C3 WRC was so flawed, not their commitment. Every fix they made caused a new problem elsewhere.

[Norm75]

Ogier wasnt happy with Ford's lack of commitment at M-Sport and believed Citroen's was higher as a full factory team.

The main problem was the C3 WRC was so flawed, not their commitment. Every fix they made caused a new problem elsewhere.

Of course their commitment. They've spent the past how many years with the will they won't they fannying around of pulling out of the sport, they take a year to implement changes Meeke called for, they haven't made any aero upgrades until it was too late, and they have never as far as I am aware held their hands up and said they've built a turd, just created a blame culture and buried their heads in the sand not holding themselves accountable for their fuckups.

There has been no driver stability in the team until last season having barely fielded a team with one lead driver on every rally in a season let alone two drivers, and three drivers which is pretty much a given requirement to fight for world championships, well you can forget that.

[flykas]

Yes. To Be a world champion you believe you are better than the rest. End of. Did Loeb drive for Citroen thinking he need to support his world champion team mates Sainz and McRae. No . . and became 9 times champ.
Did Ogier believe he had to support Loeb. No, he is 6 times world champ. Other disciplines, MotoGP, did Marquez join Honda as a rookie believing he has to support Pedrosa. No, won in rookie year . . He is 6 times champ. Did Hamilton join McLaren and believe he had to support Alonso. No . . He is 6 times champ.
Do you see as pattern emerging? You need to believe and be ruthless.

Yeah, but the problem is that Evans is not faster than Ogier...lol.

[deephouse]

Tanak wasn't faster than Ogier, now he is. Neuville wasn't too, now he is somewhere. Everyone needs to start somewhere and build up.

[Rally Power]

Of course their commitment. They've spent the past how many years with the will they won't they fannying around of pulling out of the sport, they take a year to implement changes Meeke called for, they haven't made any aero upgrades until it was too late, and they have never as far as I am aware held their hands up and said they've built a turd, just created a blame culture and buried their heads in the sand not holding themselves accountable for their fuckups.

There has been no driver stability in the team until last season having barely fielded a team with one lead driver on every rally in a season let alone two drivers, and three drivers which is pretty much a given requirement to fight for world championships, well you can forget that.

It’s sad to see rally fans so eagerly bashing Citroen for these last 3 seasons (even if those won’t hurt the fact of Citroen being the most successful WRC manu in the series history). It’s true that they failed to sort the C3 as a competitive car and that they’ve struggled to fix it, but they were still bravely trying and any fair observer should take Ogier 3 wins and 8 podiums (besides Lappi 2 P2’s) as positive development signs; unfortunately impossible to confirm next year.

It’s even sadder to see that most of the critics are Meeke fans, unable to recognize that no one but Meeke himself can be responsible for his misfortune. Actually, it really worthes to take a look on Meeke’s eWRC profile https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/70-kris-meeke/ to see that it was Citroen and Peugeot that help him the most during his carrer. In the JWRC, at the IRC and in the WRC, PSA brands, directly or through their partners, gave Meeke plenty of chances to live his rally passion on a top level. Mini/Prodrive and now Toyota only kept him for one season, while MSport never gave him a chance; you can’t blame Citroen for that…

[Norm75]

I think it's fair comment to criticise Citroen. It's plain to see their failings for any rally fan. Even those with close ties to Citroen . . Ehm. . Mrs Ogier. . . Openly criticised Citroen.

It's also a fair comment you make about us Meeke fans. Yes he hasn't lived up to his speed and potential, but I think it's also fair to say he has suffered more than his fair share of bad luck, pressure and uncertainty around his future. Citroen have had a big part, well PSA in his career it's true, but they have both directly, and now indirectly played a big part in taking away his seat, deservedly or not.
I also think it's ok to stick up for your favourite driver. It's not like having kids where you aren't supposed to have a favourite. And it will always disappoint fans when 'their' driver gets the boot.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think it's fair comment to criticise Citroen. It's plain to see their failings for any rally fan. Even those with close ties to Citroen . . Ehm. . Mrs Ogier. . . Openly criticised Citroen.



With their history you could argue Citroen could be cut some slack. The C3 was a problem car from the start but they did try to sort it out.

And also their WRC budget was what Citroen Racing was given. They had to work within that no matter what the team may have wanted to spend.

I believe in any normal year without all the driver change shenanigans, that they would've seen it through and been pretty competitive in 2020.

[Gregor-y]

As with Subaru people involved with the original success retired, quit or moved on and the funding dwindled. Yet the teams persisted for a few painful years.

[AnttiL]

Toyota will be in Tokyo Auto Salon during the Birmingham Autosport season kick-off, so it's only Hyundai and M-Sport there.

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makisen-toyota-talli-jattaa-rallin-mm-kauden-avaustilaisuuden-valiin/

[EstWRC]

wow, the news just keep getting worse and worse (citroen leaving, chile cancelled)

seems quite pointless then and sorry for the fans

[AnttiL]

wow, the news just keep getting worse and worse (citroen leaving, chile cancelled)


To me it's the other way around. This is the least worse thing out of the three and Citroen leaving was the worst. :P

[EstWRC]

To me it's the other way around. This is the least worse thing out of the three and Citroen leaving was the worst. :P

sorry my wording was bad.

i mean that the bad news just keep coming.

of course this is the least worrying one but still sucks.

[go mads]

Toyota will be in Tokyo Auto Salon during the Birmingham Autosport season kick-off, so it's only Hyundai and M-Sport there.

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makisen-toyota-talli-jattaa-rallin-mm-kauden-avaustilaisuude
n-valiin/
Surely this is a WRC Launch and therefore MUST be attended by all WRC teams?

[pantealex]

Surely this is a WRC Launch and therefore MUST be attended by all WRC teams?

No.

Since Citroen leaved, FIA can´t give any penalties if Team doesn´t want send all their people to Autosport-show.

TGR will probaly send Yaris for display.

[go mads]

No.

Since Citroen leaved, FIA can´t give any penalties if Team doesn´t want send all their people to Autosport-show.

TGR will probaly send Yaris for display.
Dont see what citroen leaving has to do with it?
It's the official wrc launch for 2020, therefore all 3 manufacturer's should be there, much like other pr activities such as autograph sessions, if you dont turn up, you get penalties

[tommeke_B]

I'd find it very strange to give/get a penalty for this, so had a look at the regulations. 2020 regulations aren't out yet. But for 2019, nothing's written about a mandatory attendance on the WRC launch event. Only attendance on the prize-giving was required this year. From Toyota this could be a reaction to the WRC launch taking place in the UK on the same event again. There's a bigger event in Japan, so why not do it there? The UK isn't the center of the world... ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

We in the UK & Europe should probably be happy that the whole WRC launch has gone to Japan, what with Toyota's money and influence and Rally Japan being back on the calendar....

[AndyRAC]

I'm surprised they decided to go back to the Autosport Show for the launch. I wasn't impressed this year, and it didn't bring extra coverage & interest that you'd hope an event like this should bring.

[Henryfiles]

Are Toyota running a new Yaris next year?

[krissucool]

No, they are running a Corolla.

[Eli]

Are Toyota running a new Yaris next year?

Since they haven't yet started sales of the new gen, I guess they'll probably delay it to 2022 when new regs come out, even the Toyota Yaris GR4 wasn't introduced yet..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I was wondering too after reading this piece a while back:

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/201932/toyota-yaris-gr-4-hot-hatchback-teased-successor-to-the-grmn-and-a-true-wrc

[pantealex]

Are Toyota running a new Yaris next year?

WRC, competing, no and testing, yes.
R5, yes.

[the sniper]

I know it's been reported that there'd be no three door Yaris, but the new video of the Yaris GR-4 certainly makes it look very much like a three door: https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/201932/toyota-yaris-gr-4-teased-in-new-video-true-wrc-homologation-special-on-the

I appreciate a lot can be done with camouflage, but look at the bottom corner of the door, it's rounded off, and what appears to be the fuel cap is in a different place than on the regular new 2020 model (watch the video, it's the same height as the rear headlight, usually it's beneath that), it's where the rear door should be...

I've got to say, from the perspective offered in that video, the GR-4 looks like a far more attractive car than the regular new Yaris. If it is indeed all wheel drive as expected and hopefully well powered, I think I might be becoming a Toyota owner!

[Tarmop]

I believe there were some talks, that due to the fact that Toyota and Subaru are connected, this Yaris will have a Subaru AWD.

[Norm75]

I believe there were some talks, that due to the fact that Toyota and Subaru are connected, this Yaris will have a Subaru AWD.

Possibly the other way round. Subaru have forever used a symmetrical awd system and boxer engine mounted longitudinal, whereas I expect the Toyota will be a transverse setup. The Subaru EJ series engine is to cease being made shortly, with no STI lined up for a couple of years, by which time Subaru will be looking at going hybrid with it. From what I have read I think the system that will end up on future subarus will be that used by Toyota first.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke wants some WRC rounds if he takes a testing role, and wont find sponsors or pay for drive:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/147506/meeke-has-uncertain-future-after-toyota-wrc-exit

[EstWRC]

Congrats https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/autosport-awards-toyota-rally-car/4608269/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Congrats https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/autosport-awards-toyota-rally-car/4608269/

I bet Hyundai arent too happy with the i20 winning the Manu Champ.

But such awards are pointless - they always go to the Champion and his car.

[janvanvurpa]

Possibly the other way round. Subaru have forever used a symmetrical awd system and boxer engine mounted longitudinal, whereas I expect the Toyota will be a transverse setup. The Subaru EJ series engine is to cease being made shortly, with no STI lined up for a couple of years, by which time Subaru will be looking at going hybrid with it. From what I have read I think the system that will end up on future subarus will be that used by Toyota first.

Poor me, not being a Blubaru fan-boi I have always been utterly baffled by the highlighted word used by Subaru in the ad-copy....but never explained.
Can you help a poor guy with limited understanding get an idea of what this means "symmetrical"???

[dimviii]

Poor me, not being a Blubaru fan-boi I have always been utterly baffled by the highlighted word used by Subaru in the ad-copy....but never explained.
Can you help a poor guy with limited understanding get an idea of what this means "symmetrical"???




symmetrical driveshafts https://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/smooth/empathy.gifhttps://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/smooth/rofl.gif

[SubaruNorway]

Poor me, not being a Blubaru fan-boi I have always been utterly baffled by the highlighted word used by Subaru in the ad-copy....but never explained.
Can you help a poor guy with limited understanding get an idea of what this means "symmetrical"???




Everything placed in the middle with equal lengt driveshafts so no torque steer like on an old Audi, if you have one sleepy eye or crocked nose your face also wouldn't be symmetrical...
Did you get it now?

[janvanvurpa]

Everything placed in the middle with equal lengt driveshafts so no torque steer like on an old Audi, if you have one sleepy eye or crocked nose your face also wouldn't be symmetrical...
Did you get it now?

Really? Are you kidding? My Sierra Cosworth 4x4 must also be "symmetrical" AWD... I wonder why Ford never made it part of their ad-copy?

And my beloved Saab 96 with the mighty V4...the motor is slightly offset but the gearbox is right in the middle and equal length halfshafts.. Is that symmetrical 2wd? What about that Volvo 240 over there???------>

[dimviii]

Everything placed in the middle with equal lengt driveshafts so no torque steer like on an old Audi, if you have one sleepy eye or crocked nose your face also wouldn't be symmetrical...
Did you get it now?

Jan is right,that a car have equal length driveshafts doesnt mean that its not going to have torque steer.
Plenty of cars with a short and long driveshaft dont have these problems,like mitsubishi evos.
About Slowbaru ''symmetrical awd'' i really dont know what they mean,but if they mean the equal length drive shafts,its nonsence because there is not any advantage on that.

[SubaruNorway]

Really? Are you kidding? My Sierra Cosworth 4x4 must also be "symmetrical" AWD... I wonder why Ford never made it part of their ad-copy?

And my beloved Saab 96 with the mighty V4...the motor is slightly offset but the gearbox is right in the middle and equal length halfshafts.. Is that symmetrical 2wd? What about that Volvo 240 over there???------>

I work at ford and the Sierra is not at the front, you should know your own car better than that ;)
Not so great when you need to go for the handbrake either?

If you say there are no advantage to it, just watch every test on YT.
Evo seems to have problems with that on the cars with no front LSD?
Volvo 240 is symmetrical one wheel drive.

[Mirek]

Actually Subaru layout brings plenty of disadvantages and only few advantages. The boxer engine is huge, heavy, ineffective and all placed in front of the front axle. The lower center of gravity and nice sound can't weight the disadvantages. Also the intercooler location is ineffective, even though it is less prone to being destroyed by ditch excursions.

[dimviii]

If you say there are no advantage to it, just watch every test on YT.
Evo seems to have problems with that on the cars with no front LSD?
.

no there is no advantage AT ALL.
Just compare a subaru and an evo.Period.
there is no evo with no limited slip diff at front axles.Some early usdm yes,but these ones dont have also the rear ayc/super-ayc who have evos from 1999 and after.

[SubaruNorway]

Actually Subaru layout brings plenty of disadvantages and only few advantages. The boxer engine is huge, heavy, ineffective and all placed in front of the front axle. The lower center of gravity and nice sound can't weight the disadvantages. Also the intercooler location is ineffective, even though it is less prone to being destroyed by ditch excursions.


Still the Impreza has better weight distribution since the gearbox is further to the rear not both at the front as non symmetrical cars like the Evo.

"04 Impreza 58.2/41.8 versus 60.7/39.3 for the Evo 8"

[Mirek]

That diference doesn't mean much. What is of much higher importance is how far from the center of gravity the weight is placed, especially the portion of weight which sits outside the space between the axles. In that regard Impreza layout isn't good because there is a huge mass in front of the front axle. Not that bad as old I5 Audi Quattro but still not good.

Quattro S1 had weight distribution 50/50 and despite that it was horribly clumsy compared to the nimble Peugeot 205 T16 which had worse weight distribution but its weight was concentrated around the center of gravity while in the Audi it was placed far from it (the massive engine hanging in front was the cherry on top of the cake).

I have forgotten one more disadvantage. With the same vehicle length Subaru layout brings always shorter wheelbase due to the long front overhang.

The key to the handling is moment of inertia. Take a hammer and move it quickly from left to right. Then hold it closse to the iron, do the same and feel the difference. That's why the weight shall be concentrated as close to the center of gravity as possible. Few percent uneven distribution plays a little role compared to the momentum which is the weight multiplied by the distance.

[dimviii]

Still the Impreza has better weight distribution since the gearbox is further to the rear not both at the front as non symmetrical cars like the Evo.

"04 Impreza 58.2/41.8 versus 60.7/39.3 for the Evo 8"

there is no rule that a car with better weight distribution is faster/better than a car with worse weight distribution.
Yes it helps,but there are plenty of other parameters that counts more.
for example see evo vs sti.Bone stock both,evo is faster with worse weight distribution.

[Norm75]

That diference doesn't mean much. What is of much higher importance is how far from the center of gravity the weight is placed, especially the portion of weight which sits outside the space between the axles. In that regard Impreza layout isn't good because there is a huge mass in front of the front axle. Not that bad as old I5 Audi Quattro but still not good.

Quattro S1 had weight distribution 50/50 and despite that it was horribly clumsy compared to the nimble Peugeot 205 T16 which had worse weight distribution but its weight was concentrated around the center of gravity while in the Audi it was placed far from it (the massive engine hanging in front was the cherry on top of the cake).

I have forgotten one more disadvantage. With the same vehicle length Subaru layout brings always shorter wheelbase due to the long front overhang.

The key to the handling is moment of inertia. Take a hammer and move it quickly from left to right. Then hold it closse to the iron, do the same and feel the difference. That's why the weight shall be concentrated as close to the center of gravity as possible. Few percent uneven distribution plays a little role compared to the momentum which is the weight multiplied by the distance.
What is your experience of driving an Impreza?

I've owned one for the past 12 years. I've also owned a Sierra xr4x4. I've driven a rally prepared evo 8. The Subaru is very planted, very neutral, and no matter how hard I drive it, has never given me any cause for concern with regard to the way it handles. It just doesn't feel nose heavy like any Audi I have driven, at all.

[Zeakiwi2]

PBMS made this ex-kangas impreza go ok.(most of the time, gear stick jumps out)
https://youtu.be/nL3Ry_JD6gg

Could use a billet block (or modern inline engine - get at the pistons , plugs etc quicker) with the sooby 4wd layout.

[dimviii]

What is your experience of driving an Impreza?

I've owned one for the past 12 years. I've also owned a Sierra xr4x4. I've driven a rally prepared evo 8. The Subaru is very planted, very neutral, and no matter how hard I drive it, has never given me any cause for concern with regard to the way it handles. It just doesn't feel nose heavy like any Audi I have driven, at all.

really you compare an impreza with an audi? lol.
you have to compare it with an evo.And yes compared to an evo its nose heavy.
And have driven plenty of imprezas.

[Mirek]

What is your experience of driving an Impreza?

I've owned one for the past 12 years. I've also owned a Sierra xr4x4. I've driven a rally prepared evo 8. The Subaru is very planted, very neutral, and no matter how hard I drive it, has never given me any cause for concern with regard to the way it handles. It just doesn't feel nose heavy like any Audi I have driven, at all.

Yes, I have driven an Impreza but the point is that a thing called laws of physics exists no matter the feelings. You just can't cheat the nature and pass the physics.

Sadly You didn't understand what I wrote. The main issue with larger moment of innertia is that your car changes directions slower - of course the active differentials do a lot to compensate it but there is still a naturally-born handicap hidden behind them.

[Norm75]

really you compare an impreza with an audi? lol.
you have to compare it with an evo.And yes compared to an evo its nose heavy.
And have driven plenty of imprezas.
Did you not read what I wrote!

[Norm75]

You guys are talking as if the Impreza was a really unsuccessful car.
As far as I am aware, it won a few rallies.
Yes, the Evo is supposedly the better road car, but there has only been one driver capable of winning a world championship in it, whereas three different drivers managed it with the Subaru, so it can't be that bad!

[Mirek]

No, we are just saying that this symmetrical AWD layout is not some sort of wonder despite Subaru advertising it like that.

[Norm75]

No, we are just saying that this symmetrical AWD layout is not some sort of wonder despite Subaru advertising it like that.

It is what it is. As an every day road car it feels well balanced enough, is very neutral to drive, is capable of getting from a to b very quickly, and more importantly for a lot of people, is very easy to drive. I've no problem for my 19 year old to drive it as it is really not a difficult car to get on with.

As for Subaru talking up the benefits of their system, well they have always traded on their use of awd, there is no harm in trying to sell their product. It's not as if people have been lied to, nobody has died, it's not like vw or countless other manufacturers and their dieselgate scandals.

At the end of the day, it is a symmetrical system. The prop is central, the drive shafts are equal length, the engine and gearbox are longitudinal and the engine is a flat four with boxer firing order, so is more symetrical than most. Whether you can argue if this is a benefit or not, I don't think it is in doubt that they are a capable road and rally car, so something works.

[cali]

My experience with both street Evo's (4,8 and 9) and STI's is that EVO is much better in handling, more precise on turns, better front grip (less understeer compared to STI) and overall a better, more efficient and very stable car. STI is more fun though as on gravel you have to throw it more sideways while EVO just turns and goes. Couldn't believe how much grip I had with street car on street tyres when driving an EVO on gravel though. On icy lakes STI's were no match to the EVO's no matter who drove them. And I'm talking about purely street cars.

[BobJones]

Even the spam bot is bored of the Subaru/Toyota talk...

[dimviii]

Did you not read what I wrote!

yeap i read,and you compare a scubi with an audi to prove that ''its not heavy nose''
when you compare it with the true rival,its heavy nose.

[Andre Oliveira]

Ott and Latvala today in Circuito do Estoril in promotion movie.

[dimviii]

You guys are talking as if the Impreza was a really unsuccessful car.


nobody said that except you.We just said that the symmetrical driveshafts and the longitudinal position of engine is not a advantage,but a disadvantage at this car.All these because of boxer engine,that couldnt positioned different.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WTF has any of this to do with Toyota Gazoo Racing WRT ???

[Norm75]

WTF has any of this to do with Toyota Gazoo Racing WRT ???
Someone mentioned the new Toyota Yaris GR4 will use a Subaru awd system, I said it won't, the next Subaru will likely use the system on the Toyota, then a shitstorm about the benefits of blah blah blah. . .

[Andre Oliveira]

Ott and Latvala today in Circuito do Estoril in promotion movie.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELb0EO1WoAEMTDp?format=jpg&name=medium

[pantealex]

Again TGR car with Finnish reg-plate.

[reff92]

Again TGR car with Finnish reg-plate.

That is demo car.

[pantealex]

That is demo car.

No, it´s chassis #2, Takamoto Katsuta did his rallies with it. (SP1002 Estonia plates)

2nd unit with Finnish plates in this autumn and both have/had Estonian plates also.

[dimviii]

Toyota Gazoo Racing technical director Tom Fowler told Autosport he's comfortable with the level of technical knowledge Tanak has taken with him from Toyota to Hyundai regarding the 2020 car.

"We don't have a huge amount of work coming with the car for early next season," said Fowler.

"Ott will know we have focused on some weight saving, but he doesn't know the areas - which are deep within the car - where we've been working.

"The only other [homologation] joker we're playing is on gear ratios, which is designed to deal with the torque from the engine and extend the life of the gearboxes.

"We're not concerned about what Ott knows about our car."
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/147571/tanak-plays-down-rivalry-with-neuville-at-hyundai

[the sniper]

I know it's been reported that there'd be no three door Yaris, but the new video of the Yaris GR-4 certainly makes it look very much like a three door: https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/201932/toyota-yaris-gr-4-teased-in-new-video-true-wrc-homologation-special-on-the

If there were any doubt, it's definitely a 3 door. If nothing else, that allows the GR-4 to serve as a legitimate homologation special: https://twitter.com/ToyotaUK/status/1204672367013900289

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELfbHwBXkAAFwQg.jpg

Looks great, can't wait to see the R5/WRC.

[Rally Power]

Without camouflage...

https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/whichcar/2019/12/13/104145/20191117_161731wm.jpg

Wheels Magazine from Australia scooped the GR-4; more pics and a small video on their site: https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/exclusive-this-is-the-toyota-gr-yaris

[TypeR]

Micra and Veloster made a baby with wide hips and Toyo logo :D

[mknight]

When FIA forces the rules about rear wing size relative to the road car version, Toyota reacts by making a different road car :)

[deephouse]

That bck body kit is really ugly. But the car itself looks better than previous version

[pantealex]

That bck body kit is really ugly. But the car itself looks better than previous version

Previous version ?

Hybrid was most powerful old generation Yaris

[BobJones]

Previous version ?

Hybrid was most powerful old generation Yaris

No.

https://www.toyota-europe.com/new-cars/yaris-grmn

[pantealex]

No.

https://www.toyota-europe.com/new-cars/yaris-grmn

My mistake, totally forgot GRMN :)

[janvanvurpa]

I work at ford and the Sierra is not at the front, you should know your own car better than that ;)
Not so great when you need to go for the handbrake either?

If you say there are no advantage to it, just watch every test on YT.
Evo seems to have problems with that on the cars with no front LSD?
Volvo 240 is symmetrical one wheel drive.

säger du det? Det är stoli underli...

Same PN left and righ for the CV inner, outer and the shaft itself..
There is a difference in 4x4 V6 length and Escort Cosworth length...not 100% but 12-17mm..
And at SOME point the length of splines on the inner drive stubb shaft was made longer and a circlip groove was cut for a C clip...
So same lengths....sorry.
I do know my own car..The spline dia and form (a 45* Pressure angle or "PA") on the front diff is exactly the same as my Saab 96 spline (1969 and later) and also same as old MkIII FWD Fiesta turbo....this led to hatching plots to machine up a case for using some of the spare guts to my V4 LSD (which itself is a new case and spline for a GKN made MkI/MkII "English" Escort diff.) and presto a nice clutch plate front diff for the 4x4>>
A Fiesta turbo VC diff was acquired in case the same idea could be applied to that..

I do know my cars...and I don't just 'service them' I build and machine parts for them, too.
And 100s of other rally cars too.

Interesting little tidbit from

[janvanvurpa]

Volvo 240 is symmetrical one wheel drive.

Sorry with good diff set tight its a great 2 wheel drive.

My daily 245...that's a different story...

[janvanvurpa]

Still the Impreza has better weight distribution since the gearbox is further to the rear not both at the front as non symmetrical cars like the Evo.

"04 Impreza 58.2/41.8 versus 60.7/39.3 for the Evo 8"

3 words about weight and Subaru's handling problems:
Polar Moment of Intertia...

(look I love MY north/south mighty V4 9especially the fact that my V4 crankshaft if vastly stronger than the EJ series Subie cranks, and my rods are better too...and I have forged pistons while 99% of Subies have cheap cast....but there are solid internal engine design problems and layout of engine which become impossible for Subarus to work well against traverse engines--usually leaned rearward--, narrow 85 or 86mm bore 2,0 liter engines like the rest of the whole world (except YB but that was replaced in the Foucus with eventually Duratec..which stock bore was 87.5mm but which Ford homologated it at 85mm bore (and corrected stroke to make it 1998cc) And why they did that is established. Why ALL the WRC motors did it...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

4WD Toyota GR Yaris hot hatch prototype early review:

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/amp/car-reviews/toyota/gr-yaris

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This review states:
"The motivation behind using a three-cylinder engine is once again homologation, this time for the R5 class. From 2020, R5 cars will be powered by three-cylinder engines, and now Toyota has the perfect unit handy.

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/202068/2020-toyota-gr-yaris-detailed-plus-our-prototype-drive

[BobJones]

4WD Toyota GR Yaris hot hatch prototype early review:

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/amp/car-reviews/toyota/gr-yaris

I think this car is mega. Powerful, small, light, four-wheel-drive. Reminds me of homologation specials. Well done Toyota for having the guts to produce something like this!

Bet it isn't cheap!

[Andre Oliveira]

This review states:
"The motivation behind using a three-cylinder engine is once again homologation, this time for the R5 class. From 2020, R5 cars will be powered by three-cylinder engines, and now Toyota has the perfect unit handy.

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/202068/2020-toyota-gr-yaris-detailed-plus-our-prototype-drive

According Rich Millener is FAKE NEWS.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

According Rich Millener is FAKE NEWS.

Yep, I think they meant the new R5 ie the old R1.

[BobJones]

Meeke on Toyota duties for the GR Yaris, had a race against Alonso. Alonso went off (Instagram story) https://www.instagram.com/krismeeke/

[dimviii]

Meeke on Toyota duties for the GR Yaris, had a race against Alonso. Alonso went off (Instagram story) https://www.instagram.com/krismeeke/

can you post the exactly link,dont have instagram,and after some seconds blocking me.

[BobJones]

can you post the exactly link,dont have instagram,and after some seconds blocking me.

Sorry, it's a 'Story' and not a 'Post' so not sure I can link to it.

But Meeke's in the full Toyota gear and they are giving journalists hot laps around Estoril. Alonso out-brakes Meeke but goes off into the gravel. Funny clip.

The main thing for me is that the marketing for the road car is tied around the WRC. But, they have a new driver line-up for 2020. All a bit awkward. The WRC drivers were supposed to have had a hand in the development of the car. I believe there are marketing videos in the can with Tanak driving it.

But now it's been switched to Lopez, Alonso and Meeke. Which suggests to me that Meeke may still be involved with Toyota in some way (road car and R5?) for 2020.

[Norm75]

Sorry, it's a 'Story' and not a 'Post' so not sure I can link to it.

But Meeke's in the full Toyota gear and they are giving journalists hot laps around Estoril. Alonso out-brakes Meeke but goes off into the gravel. Funny clip.

The main thing for me is that the marketing for the road car is tied around the WRC. But, they have a new driver line-up for 2020. All a bit awkward. The WRC drivers were supposed to have had a hand in the development of the car. I believe there are marketing videos in the can with Tanak driving it.

But now it's been switched to Lopez, Alonso and Meeke. Which suggests to me that Meeke may still be involved with Toyota in some way (road car and R5?) for 2020.
Yes there are clips on YouTube with Meeke, Latvala and Tanak driving the Yaris GR and giving their impressions, albeit quite brief. Also some of Meeke driving the Fuji racetrack in a GR Supra with Tommi riding shotgun that is a little longer.

[BobJones]

Sorry, it's a 'Story' and not a 'Post' so not sure I can link to it.

But Meeke's in the full Toyota gear and they are giving journalists hot laps around Estoril. Alonso out-brakes Meeke but goes off into the gravel. Funny clip.

The main thing for me is that the marketing for the road car is tied around the WRC. But, they have a new driver line-up for 2020. All a bit awkward. The WRC drivers were supposed to have had a hand in the development of the car. I believe there are marketing videos in the can with Tanak driving it.

But now it's been switched to Lopez, Alonso and Meeke. Which suggests to me that Meeke may still be involved with Toyota in some way (road car and R5?) for 2020.

It's now 2020 and Meeke is an invited guest of Toyota for the Dakar. Toyota's making use of that pre-Ogier signed deal...

[AnttiL]

It's now 2020 and Meeke is an invited guest of Toyota for the Dakar. Toyota's making use of that pre-Ogier signed deal...

I believe the Dakar program does not have connections to the WRC contracts. Meeke had a one-year contract which is now officially over.

However, it's highly possible that Meeke considers doing Dakar since he does not have a WRC deal.

[mknight]

Meeke and Dakar is the worst possible combination. For Dakar you need a driver that drives safely at high speed over long distances. Meeke generally either drives extremely fast and not very safe or slow. Something like rallycross would seem to fit his nature much more.

[Allez Andruet]

I believe the Dakar program does not have connections to the WRC contracts.

I think so too. The TGR WRC drivers have contracts with TMR (I think), not directly with Toyota or any of its departments/units.

[wrc2017]

Meeke and Dakar is the worst possible combination. For Dakar you need a driver that drives safely at high speed over long distances. Meeke generally either drives extremely fast and not very safe or slow. Something like rallycross would seem to fit his nature much more.

Stfu.. aye slow..
He finished the Baja 1000

[EstWRC]

surprising livery


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN5RFeyX4AA3D4y?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN5QP7QXkAEtifZ?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN5ThTmU0AAXECp?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN5EfY9WoAA0YqJ?format=jpg&name=large

[TypeR]

Awesome! so much effort put into the new livery!

[liposh]

...but where is the Red Bull? Seriously. It is sponsor of all 3 drivers.

[Franky]

...but where is the Red Bull? Seriously. It is sponsor of all 3 drivers.

They'll get to wear their hats for that.

[RS]

Toyota also in F1 ran a dull livery that barely changed for years.

TBH I would have been disappointed if Red Bull had sponsored Toyota this year - they already have strong manufacturer backing and some good sponsors and at a time when there are less factory seats i would rather they had supported some drivers without contracts instead. But it seems they will do neither.

[EstWRC]

Awesome! so much effort put into the new livery!

I seriously hope the designer got the payrise

[T16]

Well it still looks as fast as the car that won last year I guess.
Really can’t wait to see what Evans can do in it... expecting big things.
Who would have thought that Meeke would end up getting dropped to make way for him. So glad he’s got the recognition he’s worked so hard for.

[Franky]

I seriously hope the designer got the payrise

Relax already. The guy was sacked in 2017 January, why else there's been no changes. At least I guess so.

[EstWRC]

Haha, I mean, yes I get it that these are the gazoo colors but you can still design it differently with the same colors

[AndyRAC]

Not really a surprise - they are the corporate colours, in use for all the motorsport teams.

[er88]

Yep, didn't expect the colours to change as they are Gazoo racing colours, but the design could've changed. Very dull. I also expected to see a little red bull branding on the car somewhere. Shame that Red Bull haven't put that funding into Msport, or help fund a PH sport run Citroen private team with some of Mads' funding + other pay drivers.

[Fri]

And what about this?
https://scontent.fbud1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81746029_1879562955521070_5378399665731403776_o.jp g?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=UyzBlVU2Tb0AQlC2JpnCAgbGAV50OZ-8Jzf5UXevYBRew-tBslaGsMIzA&_nc_ht=scontent.fbud1-1.fna&oh=89ad82434c6add18e416deb3a5661de2&oe=5EAB87C2

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Makinen said the car looks the same but will be lighter and more powerful.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Shame that Red Bull haven't put that funding into Msport, or help fund a PH sport run Citroen private team with some of Mads' funding + other pay drivers.

RB have only ever sponsored the champions car/team...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toyota GR Yaris revealed in full – return of the homologation special.

"Why go to all the effort and expense of re-engineering things such as the roofline and axles for a homologation special? Gazoo Racing’s 2020 Yaris WRC car differs so much from the standard Yaris that this homologation model will need to be produced. In contrast to old Group N WRC rules, which required a limited number of closely related road-going examples to be produced in order to comply (think early Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution or Subaru WRX), today’s rules allow a wider chasm between the road and rally versions. However, venture outside these limitations, as Toyota Gazoo Racing has done, and a large production run is required to homologate the race car.

As such, the GR Yaris will not be limited to just a few hundred units, instead Toyota will need to produce a full 25,000 next year in order to comply with WRC regulations."

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/201932/toyota-gr-yaris-revealed-in-full-return-of-the-homologation-special

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New Toyota GR Yaris: forged in the heat of WRC.

https://blog.toyota.co.uk/gr-yaris

[the sniper]

TBH I would have been disappointed if Red Bull had sponsored Toyota this year - they already have strong manufacturer backing and some good sponsors and at a time when there are less factory seats i would rather they had supported some drivers without contracts instead. But it seems they will do neither.

I still really wish there'd been a secondary 'Red Bull Toyota GR (Junior)' team, if only for Kalle in a 4th full season car, but Katsuta could have been in a second points scoring car in that team, with Al-Attiyah possibly doing the Safari in that team too (Turkey too?). Whoever then didn't get the 3rd drive in the main team out of Meeke and Latvala (probably the latter?) could have done the few rounds that Katsuta (and possibly Al-Attiyah) wouldn't be doing...

For all the talk about extra cars, Tommi surely had the best opportunity to run more cars and didn't take it.

[Ucci]

Toyota GR Yaris revealed in full – return of the homologation special.

"Why go to all the effort and expense of re-engineering things such as the roofline and axles for a homologation special? Gazoo Racing’s 2020 Yaris WRC car differs so much from the standard Yaris that this homologation model will need to be produced. In contrast to old Group N WRC rules, which required a limited number of closely related road-going examples to be produced in order to comply (think early Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution or Subaru WRX), today’s rules allow a wider chasm between the road and rally versions. However, venture outside these limitations, as Toyota Gazoo Racing has done, and a large production run is required to homologate the race car.

As such, the GR Yaris will not be limited to just a few hundred units, instead Toyota will need to produce a full 25,000 next year in order to comply with WRC regulations."

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/201932/toyota-gr-yaris-revealed-in-full-return-of-the-homologation-special

Only three-cylinder engine??? This is spoiling my excitement...

[Mirek]

Only three-cylinder engine??? This is spoiling my excitement...

So after a decade someone built a car which came directly from the past of 90' and the first thing people start to do is crying that it has only three cylinder engine like if that was actually important.

Come on, plenty of people spent years writing on this board how the gr.A cars were the best thing ever so be happy that someone decided to go against the trend and introduced this thing from the past. It's here and it's real. Maybe no other car like that will ever follow... Cheers.

[HKSjbg]

Only three-cylinder engine??? This is spoiling my excitement...

Come on, three-cylinder engines have a more interesting sound than a four-cylinder engine. This is just one of many PLUS points about this car

[Ucci]

You must be kidding.....three cyliner engine produces so funny noise, have you never heard Fiesta R2?? I know that the future demands in this class only 3 cylinder engines (costs), but if you want to create a legend like Suby Impreza STi or Mitsu evo IX/X, this shrilling noise will not help to fall into delirium. And saying that this is cutting-cost step is meaningless for the vehicle, which will cost at least three times of a normal version...and it is not a version which will be produced in 100.000 + units...so, one minus for me.
Now I can only wait that the next P911 & BMW M3 will have also 3 cylinder engine...and you will like it?? Com'on....

[tommeke_B]

About Fiesta R2T, I quite like the sound more than Clio R3T or DS3 R3T for example (which are 4cil). The reason why it is a 3 cylinder car is because that seems to be the way to go and to build the best, most efficient engine... The new Fiesta ST also uses a 3 cylinder engine instead of the old 4 cylinder engine. And it seems to be better, with more torque in lower RPM. Anyway, like many people, I'm very excited about the new GR Yaris. If the price tag can be justified for me, I'd like to swap my old 4 cylinder Fiesta ST for it. :)

[dimviii]

The reason why it is a 3 cylinder car is because that seems to be the way to go and to build the best, most efficient engine...)
+1
to be efficient a cylinder must be very close to 500cc

[EstWRC]

Ingrassia looks happy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOBqK7PWkAA0haa?format=jpg&name=medium

[Tarmop]

Interesting, how long life-span a 3-cylinder 200+kw engine has...rebuilding a race/rallycar is one thing, but roadcar...

[HKSjbg]

It’s less kW/Litre than an AMG A45 - what are the service intervals like on one of those?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Elfyn-san not joining in with the hair ...


Ihttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOBqK7PWkAA0haa?format=jpg&name=medium

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"The GR Yaris will not be limited to just a few hundred units, instead Toyota will need to produce a full 25,000 next year in order to comply with WRC regulations."

So the 2021 Yaris WRC will be based on this GR Yaris ? A new car for them for just a year, before then changing again to the 2022 hybrid car ?

[gps-monkey]

Yes, and speculations about Subaru:

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/toyota-baut-fuer-ein-jahr-ein-komplett-neues-wrc-43187/

[deephouse]

Hyundai did it too with new i20 then again with 2017 car.

[dimviii]

nice Fowler interview at autosport.

"I spent much of my career trying to stop a Frenchman called Sebastien winning. Now I've got to help a Frenchman called Sebastien win his title back!"
https://www.autosport.com/engineering/feature/9833/the-mind-behind-toyota-wrc-dominator-

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Havent Toyota got any roof flags or other ID to differentiate their cars ?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPIbe12XsAAKeUe?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPIbe13WAAUF6jP?format=jpg&name=small

[pantealex]

Mirrors...

[denkimi]

Mirrors...
I don't see any difference?

[SubaruNorway]

I don't see any difference?

Evans red stripe, Kalle white, Ogier nothing.
Number in the front window makes it a little easier this year.

[EstWRC]

Evans red stripe, Kalle white, Ogier nothing.
Number in the front window makes it a little easier this year.

but thats only in Monte unfortunately

[RS]

Evans was a big surprise to me. I thought he was solid but didn’t expect him to be on a level with Ogier on Monte.

Rovanpera also impressive on WRCar debut and only second Monte.

When Tänak left and Tommi said they’d have an equal or better lineup for 2020 I was sceptical, now I think he may have been right. Early days but promising..

[AnttiL]

but thats only in Monte unfortunately

That's a legal thing in France, you have to replace the license plate of a rally car with a number plate.

[mknight]

When Tänak left and Tommi said they’d have an equal or better lineup for 2020 I was sceptical, now I think he may have been right. Early days but promising..

In Monte their lineup really looked better than Hyundai "dream team" with Tanak, Neuville and Loeb/Sordo, much to many peoples surprise, including me.

We'll see how it goes over more than one rally.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC/status/1225735318743273472

2021 Yaris WRC test video

EDIT: Fittingly post #1000 of this thread.