2017 Hungarian Grand Prix, or the thing that goes on while we discuss the halo

[N4D13]

So Ricciardo has nailed FP1 and FP2. Do you guys think that he has a shot to win on Sunday? If there's a circuit that would suit the bulls, it's the Hungaroring - they also seem to do quite well at Monaco too.

At least we might have a race on Sunday. I don't think Merc will be running off with this race as easily as they did in Britain.

[Bagwan]

Ah , yes , the first race in the countdown until they turn it from open cockpit to haloed .
I guess we should try to enjoy it while we can .

On the bright side , little kids will be able to pick the toy car versions of haloed cars easier , and they did say they wanted to start marketing to a younger audience .

Oh yeah , the race .
I hope the honey badger and the little Dutch boy can really mix it up tomorrow and the next day .

[Tazio]

Looking forward to quali. Ferrari look really strong. I'm thinking that Merc is going to go fast in q2 on soft compound, and start on on them, and run very long!

[Tazio]

Nice freakin' lap by Max!

[longisland]

Kudos to Di Resta. The car wasn't great to begin with; he managed to out qualified poor Ericsson without any experience with the car & haven't driven a F1 car sine 2013. Great effort!

[Mia 01]

A front row lockout, I´m very pleased today.

Go Kimi, go go!

[Bagwan]

A front row lockout, I´m very pleased today.

Go Kimi, go go!

Yeah , Mia , and your boy , Kimi felt he had it for pole but for a "stupid mistake" !
He's feeling more comfortable in that red car so Sebastian had better watch out .

[AndyL]

Yeah , Mia , and your boy , Kimi felt he had it for pole but for a "stupid mistake" !
He's feeling more comfortable in that red car so Sebastian had better watch out .

Sebastian has nothing to worry about from Kimi, he knows the Ferrari strategists have his back.

[gm99]

Well done, Max!

[AndyL]

If it wasn't for bad luck, Romain wouldn't have no luck at all.

[AndyL]

Nice move by Alonso on Sainz.

[truefan72]

hmm i'm torn

i think ferrari should let kimi through and mercedes should let hamilton through, he is clearly faster than bottas
But i think hamilton can pass bottas on the track.

that would be the call if both teams want to fight for a win

this is getting interesting.

[AndyL]

Alonso's got Palmer too.

[AndyL]

hmm i'm torn

i think ferrari should let kimi through and mercedes should let hamilton through, he is clearly faster than bottas
But i think hamilton can pass bottas on the track.

that would be the call if both teams want to fight for a win

this is getting interesting.

So Mercedes have issued the order, will Ferrari have to now as well?

[truefan72]

ok bottas is now falling back from kimi, hmm

they made the switch, let us see what hamilton can do

[gm99]

Team orders at Mercedes.

[truefan72]

so...what will ferrari do???

[yodasarmpit]

This track is ridiculous, Kimi is so much faster and cant get past.

[AndyL]

A shame for DiResta, he was closing in on the two Saubers but has to retire.

[AndyL]

Fastest man on track on lap 66: Fernando Alonso :)

[gm99]

If Verstappen hadn't gone on a rampage at the start, RBR could well have ended up as the laughing third in today's race.

[AndyL]

Fastest man on track on lap 66: Fernando Alonso :)

And the fastest lap of the race on the final lap! That McLaren is not all bad.

[gm99]

Hats off to Hamilton for letting Bottas back past!

[truefan72]

honorable by Hamilton
no multi 21 situation
wonder what the haters are gonna say now

As for Ferrari, it worked out at the end
great job for Mclaren
I think thy will stick with honda

gutted from my 2nd fav driver Hulkenberg. that magnussen move destroyed his race.

[AndyL]

If Verstappen hadn't gone on a rampage at the start, RBR could well have ended up as the laughing third in today's race.

Finishing at +13 seconds after a 10 second penalty, they would have been right in there for sure.

[truefan72]

yup,

I think he might have challenged for the win

[AndyL]

Vettel just saying that his steering went wonky when they dropped the car off the jacks on the grid. How odd.

[AndyL]

great job for Mclaren
I think thy will stick with honda

I don't know, I think if anything it underlines how much the Honda is costing them, and what they could be doing with a decent engine.

[yodasarmpit]

Loved Alonso stealing the show at the end :)

[Bagwan]

Very nice work by Hamilton and Bottas .
These men are both team players .

Tough for Kimi , but he also proved a great team man .
Ferrari would be fools to consider anyone else in that seat .

Rough on the honey badger , as Max bowled through , but not too sure Max deserved the penalty when it was all in the first lap tension , with Riccardo passing outside .
It looked more like a racing incident with Max facing a tighter line than he expected .

[Bagwan]

Loved Alonso stealing the show at the end :)

Yeah , was that a chalk drawing of him on the pavement ?
I like these little surprises from the new owners , and well done to Zo for lounging on the deck chair for the cameras .

Great gesture , and it made me think that they wanted to really make him feel at home , so they , and we , don't lose him to Indycar .

By the way , happy birthday , Fernando .

[Tazio]

:stareup: He also had one of the few legit passes of the race (on Sainz).

[Nitrodaze]

Overall, not a brilliant race. Tyres still an impedment to racing but the effect of the wider car on a track like Hungaroring with lots of twists and turns means close racing was difficult and at the expense of downforce.

It was daft for Mercedes and Hamilton to swop places with a much slower Bottas today and they may pay dearly for it, come Abu dhabi. As we guessed at the beginning of the season, this aspect is a clear advantage for Vettel who has the benefit of a clear number one status at Ferrari as demonstrated today. Kimi was faster but Ferrari would not entertain the idea of letting him pass Vettel to win the race. Mercedes may try to argue some sort of moral high ground, but that sort of argument only applies if they clearly have a sizeable advantage over Ferrari. As it goes, and with all the Mercedes mistakes in this first half of the season that has cost Hamilton wins and loads of points, the team are set to lose the drivers championship for Hamilton. This season is a very different ball game and they just don't seem to get it. There are still loads of points on the table but would bet against Vettel with the level of support he is getting from Ferrari. Especially with Mercedes only interested in securing constructors championship and not really caring about the driver championship.

Fiesty drive by Verstapenn but a touch dangerous and reckless. I think most drivers are now finding him dangerous and unpredictable. Not because of his defensive talent which is widely admired, but because he does not appear to know the limit when a move could be potentially dangerous. Ricciado is definitely not very impressed as his race was prematurely ended by what was an unnecessary accident. Beside this altercation, he drove a great race, gave Hamilton a good fight and recovered a 10 second deficit to within a second of Bottas at the end of the race. Definitely gave Mercedes a bit of worry.

Alonso gave a glimpse of what could be if Honda got on top of their engine woes. That Maclaren chassis is brilliant by all accounts. Great to see Di Resta in a Hybrid F1 car, for such a very late call to duty, he put up a great effort. That said, the Williams cars were nowhere this weekend. The Williams chassis seem to be one of the worst in the paddock. Even the great Mercedes engine cannot seem to compensate for the inadequacy of that chassis.

Those Pirelli tyres are crap, certainly not as good as the Bridgestone tyres of old by a mile.

[Nitrodaze]

honorable by Hamilton
no multi 21 situation
wonder what the haters are gonna say now

As for Ferrari, it worked out at the end
great job for Mclaren
I think thy will stick with honda

gutted from my 2nd fav driver Hulkenberg. that magnussen move destroyed his race.

That was a shite move by Magnussen. he has done this alot of times this year but seem to get a slap on the wrist for it. I am sure Kyvat would have got points on his license if it was him doing that.

[Nitrodaze]

Very nice work by Hamilton and Bottas .
These men are both team players .

Tough for Kimi , but he also proved a great team man .
Ferrari would be fools to consider anyone else in that seat .

Rough on the honey badger , as Max bowled through , but not too sure Max deserved the penalty when it was all in the first lap tension , with Riccardo passing outside .
It looked more like a racing incident with Max facing a tighter line than he expected .

Unfortunately, it was up to him to get through the first lap safely but most importantly without taking out his teammate. That move cost Redbull lots of points today and potentially a podium.

[Tazio]

That was a shite move by Magnussen. he has done this alot of times this year but seem to get a slap on the wrist for it. I am sure Kyvat would have got points on his license if it was him doing that.
Yet K-Mag when confronted by Nico has a very basic response:
https://youtu.be/2kyml35XchQ ::rotflmao:

[Bagwan]

Unfortunately, it was up to him to get through the first lap safely but most importantly without taking out his teammate. That move cost Redbull lots of points today and potentially a podium.

And , he has duly said he is sorry , and that it was his fault .

[Rollo]

Those Pirelli tyres are crap, certainly not as good as the Bridgestone tyres of old by a mile.

How so?

Pirelli are making tyres to a design specification. Tyres which last the whole race existed more than 30 years ago; so potentially Pirelli could make tyres to do that if they were asked to.

[airshifter]

Interesting race, even if the track isn't one to allow much passing.

I think the penalty on the Honey Badger was harsh. We see hits harder than that on a regular basis, and most go without penalty. The fact that it screwed Ricciardo was penalty enough for the team, and I'd almost bet that if the impact didn't produce fluids then officials would have looked the other way. I don't think we've seen the coolers get punctured since Seb and Jenson, but in this case it didn't take much impact really.

When the Ferrari's were under pressure, I was shocked that they didn't switch the order. Then again, pitting Kimi when they did made it obvious that they had already determined race finish order. It turned out well for them, but that sure was one roll of the dice. I really thought Lewis might have a shot once they let him by Bottas, but when it didn't work he held to his word and let Bottas have the position back. Good move by both the team and drivers.

I don't think any of us saw both McHonda's in the points, and Fred taking fast lap shows that the car handles if they can keep the engine together. It will be interesting to see how the Honda relationship pans out.

[Triumph]

I was very impressed with Hamilton's sporting gesture in giving the place back to Bottas. He deserves a lot of credit for that, and hopefully he won't end up regretting it at the end of the year.

[Bagwan]

Interesting race, even if the track isn't one to allow much passing.

I think the penalty on the Honey Badger was harsh. We see hits harder than that on a regular basis, and most go without penalty. The fact that it screwed Ricciardo was penalty enough for the team, and I'd almost bet that if the impact didn't produce fluids then officials would have looked the other way. I don't think we've seen the coolers get punctured since Seb and Jenson, but in this case it didn't take much impact really.

When the Ferrari's were under pressure, I was shocked that they didn't switch the order. Then again, pitting Kimi when they did made it obvious that they had already determined race finish order. It turned out well for them, but that sure was one roll of the dice. I really thought Lewis might have a shot once they let him by Bottas, but when it didn't work he held to his word and let Bottas have the position back. Good move by both the team and drivers.

I don't think any of us saw both McHonda's in the points, and Fred taking fast lap shows that the car handles if they can keep the engine together. It will be interesting to see how the Honda relationship pans out.

The "honey badger" is Riccardo .

[Bagwan]

I was very impressed with Hamilton's sporting gesture in giving the place back to Bottas. He deserves a lot of credit for that, and hopefully he won't end up regretting it at the end of the year.

The reds had to win that one .
Big engine tracks coming .

Big , big props for being the team player to both of the Merc boys .
Bottas let Hamilton by easily , trusting his team-mate would stick to the deal .
If either of them balked at the idea , it could have turned into the Nico/Lewis scenario all over again .

That is a great driver pairing .

[Nitrodaze]

And , he has duly said he is sorry , and that it was his fault .

I suppose, sorry does count towards the constructor points at the end of the season.

[Nitrodaze]

How so?

Pirelli are making tyres to a design specification. Tyres which last the whole race existed more than 30 years ago; so potentially Pirelli could make tyres to do that if they were asked to.

Actually, l am not sure why all the teams seem to struggle with the tyres at one point or the other. Is it really tyres or is it the chassis mandated by the FIA? We saw Ferrari burnt their tyres to the canvas at Silverstone. Occasionally, the Mercedes just simple cannot work with the tyres. It took some time for Redbull to get to grips with the 2017 tyres. Williams simply cannot get the tyre to work consistently.

[Nitrodaze]

Yet K-Mag when confronted by Nico has a very basic response:
https://youtu.be/2kyml35XchQ ::rotflmao:

He is a cheeky one that Magnussen :-)

[Nitrodaze]

The reds had to win that one .
Big engine tracks coming .

Big , big props for being the team player to both of the Merc boys .
Bottas let Hamilton by easily , trusting his team-mate would stick to the deal .
If either of them balked at the idea , it could have turned into the Nico/Lewis scenario all over again .

That is a great driver pairing .

But did Bottas deserve to claim back the podium position after drifting back by eight seconds and falling to just over a second ahead of a rampant Verstapenn. I think Hamilton had earned the position, there was no real benefit to swop. It was risky as well but fortunately, Verstapenn did not expect that a swop was still going to happen, he would have made Hamilton pay dearly for it.

[N. Jones]

But did Bottas deserve to claim back the podium position after drifting back by eight seconds and falling to just over a second ahead of a rampant Verstapenn. I think Hamilton had earned the position, there was no real benefit to swop. It was risky as well but fortunately, Verstapenn did not expect that a swop was still going to happen, he would have made Hamilton pay dearly for it.

I was thinking that too but good on Lewis for being a good sport. He took, couldn't get the job done, and gave back.

[Bagwan]

But did Bottas deserve to claim back the podium position after drifting back by eight seconds and falling to just over a second ahead of a rampant Verstapenn. I think Hamilton had earned the position, there was no real benefit to swop. It was risky as well but fortunately, Verstapenn did not expect that a swop was still going to happen, he would have made Hamilton pay dearly for it.

You have no idea why Bottas was slow at that point .
But , you do know that both finished ahead of Max , and thus gained Mercedes the maximum in points for the race .

You also have to examine , had they not swapped back the positions , the strain on the relationship between the two drivers , and especially between Bottas and his team would have been tremendous , and they dealt with lots of agro between drivers when Nico was on board .
Perhaps they learned a lesson .

It seems that they are telling the drivers that they work for a team , and that that is the first priority .
The deal between the drivers was upheld , and that is worth more than the points they could lose with warring drivers , as recent history tells them .

[truefan72]

I was thinking that too but good on Lewis for being a good sport. He took, couldn't get the job done, and gave back.

tBH i would have set up the switch with the caveat of Bottas being within 3-4 seconds of Hamilton with 5 laps to go in order to get the position back. It was funny that Bottas was worried about the switch back not happening when in realty he did very little to actually earn that switchback. And if the race was 2 or 3 laps longer would have gotten passed by Verstappen. alos Mercedes should have made the switch much earlier and forced Ferrari into more of a dilemma. once again we as the fans and commentators noticed Bottas dropping pace and the need for the switch at least 8 laps before Mercedes finally made that call. This year they have been very poor in race strategy, often reacting instead of being proactive. they new Vettel had an issue, they knew kimi was much faster, by switching Hamilton earlier, he would have hounded Kimi who in turn would have pressured Vettel and at the very least caused some confusion at Ferrari. but instead they allowed Ferrari to dictate things

That is why i believe what Hamilton did was very honorable and also playing the long game.
I think he just gained a valuable ace up his sleeve for later in the season and has the confidence to believe that those 3 points will be made up with his own skill.
I can now forsee Bottas giving Hamilton a position to aide his championship if it becomes a 2 horse race later on or simply giving him the position if he sees Hamilton being much faster in a given race

[truefan72]

You have no idea why Bottas was slow at that point .
We do Bagwan, he simply did not have the pace to keep up with the ferrari's, Hamilton and tbh verstappen.
very early in that 2nd stint he was right behind Kimi and consistently lost time behind them. It was not a matter of getting a breather then picking up his pace, he just got slower and slower.
That has been the problem with Bottas his entire career. Even the races he lead he eventually loses pace and nearly gets caught at the very end.
So yeah, he simply did not have the ability to maintain a high level of pace throughout the race and but for the graciousness of Hamilton and laps running out on verstappen, he got a podium, when at best he should have barely finished in fourth.
Earlier in the race and as soon as it was clear vettel had a problem, i was hoping that Bottas would find a way past kimi or stick close to kimi and pressure the ferrari's. But instead he just fell further and further back.

[Big Ben]

We do Bagwan, he simply did not have the pace to keep up with the ferrari's, Hamilton and tbh verstappen.
very early in that 2nd stint he was right behind Kimi and consistently lost time behind them. It was not a matter of getting a breather then picking up his pace, he just got slower and slower.
That has been the problem with Bottas his entire career. Even the races he lead he eventually loses pace and nearly gets caught at the very end.
So yeah, he simply did not have the ability to maintain a high level of pace throughout the race and but for the graciousness of Hamilton and laps running out on verstappen, he got a podium, when at best he should have barely finished in fourth.
Earlier in the race and as soon as it was clear vettel had a problem, i was hoping that Bottas would find a way past kimi or stick close to kimi and pressure the ferrari's. But instead he just fell further and further back.

:rolleyes:. Hamilton's the victim, Hamilton's the hero, such a tragic heroic story. Bottas could have made Hamilton's life very hard, especially on this track. He decided to be a team player and let Hamilton through, for which he actually slowed down a lot. At that point had Hamilton really earned the switch? In the end it was based on empty promises. He didn't deliver and he was a nice of enough of a guy to do nothing more than to honour an agreement they had. As opposed to some of his fans who now lament he returned the 'loan' he took.

[The Black Knight]

I am just back from the Hungaroring. What a weekend! The new owners of F1 are really doing a great job in entertaining the fans at race weekends. The atmosphere was the best I can remember at a race weekend. Probably only Silverstone has an atmosphere to match!

As for the race, it wasn't particularly entertaining. This track type seems to seems to suit the Ferrari's very well. It was very clear when I was walking the track on Saturday that the Ferrari was for best handling car. The way they used the kerbs was so much crisper than the Mercedes. RBR looked great too but Ferrari's were clear favourites from start in my eyes.

The race was a different story completely. While Hamilton's action were very commendable, it is very clear that if Mercedes lose this championship it will because they refuse to implement a number one/two status. To be fair, neither Bottas or Lewis have requested it either. Ferrari have made clear both here and in Monaco that Vettel is their number one driver. I have no particular issue with what Mercedes did. I also think that Hamilton had plenty of excuses not to give the place back such as potentially losing out to Max but, once again, he showed his class and played the team game. I think we can all safely say that Vettel would not have done the same were positions reversed.

Anyway it is time for Mercedes to make a decision. Either change the rules of engagement so as the faster driver must move over as long as they are not 1-2 or set number 1 status to Lewis or Bottas or continue as is and probably lose a drivers and potentially constructors championship.

[N4D13]

Regarding the Verstappen penalty, I think that was far too stringent. I most certainly don't like the guy nor his defending, but I don't think a mistake like that should be punished with a penalty. If anyone deserved a penalty during the race, I think it was Magnussen for his Verstappen impersonation whilst trying to keep Hülkenberg behind.

[N. Jones]

I can't agree with a No1/No2 situation. I believe if the drivers are a good enough they should be able to pass anyone at anytime. If the drivers can't then they should not complain.