2018 Teams

[bassist]

Maybe it would do everyone a favour if Ogier retired. It would make all of the Teams' situation a whole lot simpler... ;)

Agree, isn't five enough? No doubting the man's talent, but let's give more youngsters seats.

[AL14]

Ogier wasn't exactly dominant this year, especially not in the mid-season with 5th place on Sardinia, 3rd place gifted in Poland after many retirements and 0 points from Finland.. going into Germany with same points as Neuville. Also comparison with Tanak is quite close.

So hiring Ogier doesn't look like 100% guaranteed title and not hiring him like 100% no title. Looks like Toyota is not exactly going all-in for Ogier either.

Here I don't agree. Yes Ogier wasn't as dominant as VW years this year but Hyundai would have had way more chances (real chances) to win the title with him. I think we all agree on this.

[racerx1979]

He should stay for a few years. I think the competition and cars this year a lot better than the past. VW was dominating, but we have drivers and cars that are all capable of winning.

As mknight said a few posts above, Ogier was not exactly dominating this year. He did what a champ has to do, but Tanak, Nueville or Latvala could have also been winning WDC at this stage. Latvala with reliability issues, Tanak with some misfortunes and Nueville with a few silly mistakes that led to two 1st place finished gone with the wind. Next year isn't going to be a walk in the park for the champ.

[AL14]

Come on guys it never is a walk in the park but he is on another level. You can talk about unluck and misfortunes of others as much as you want but he is simply the best and everytime someone tried to catch him he ended up with less the 3 wheels on his car, tears in his eyes and dozens of points behind in the overall ranking.
Having him in your team is very close to have a garantee to win the WDC nowadays.

[Mintexmemory]

.... but Tanak, Nueville or Latvala could have also been winning WDC at this stage.
Almost the tin man, the scarecrow and the lion - Heart, head and nerve (i.e. Resolve) missing in some degree from all the challengers. Can't see that's going to suddenly be different (apart from Tanak appearing to have got his brain working this year). The car doesn't matter, Ogier is the superior talent at the moment and even if he doesn't dominate over 14 rallies he will always accumulate more points than anyone else!

[mknight]

Think you are a bit blinded by the recent 2 good rallies. It certainly wasn't looking anywhere that good after weak performances in Sardinia and Poland and off in Finland. If he does not have competitive and reliable car steady finishes won't help him. The margins are really small.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that the combination of reliability and speed is significantly better than others, but it's not unbeatable. Not with all (or at least 3) cars competitive.

[ESTR]

Agree, isn't five enough? No doubting the man's talent, but let's give more youngsters seats.

Yeeees. I'm not only one who thinks about that.

Nandan said that the team are in talks with Ogier for future, but not for 2018 they have 4 drivers signed and have no available seat. 3 of their drivers have contract for 2018. Only Mikkelsen have also 2019.

And I hope they would not sign him. They can win without him. Toyota maybe is not interested in him because he turns them down once.

And whoever thinks that Hyundai can only win by him under the roof. If Latvala wouldn't have bad luck this year and Neuville mistakes he would have no chance. And I think that this is luck for him this year and please don't sa opposite because we all know that he is strugling much more than last year. Most of his good results are coming because of mistakes and misfortunes of others.

[Mintexmemory]

If there are 3 competitive cars with Meeke, Neuville, Mikkelsen, Tanak, Latvala and Lappi all capable of winning on any given day which of these drivers will put together enough second and third places to gain points where one driver is winning? Which of these drivers has ever indicated they can handle the pressure of expectation? Which of these will be so superior under all conditions that they will win more than 4 events in the season. Yes Ogier had a poor run (unusual for him) but was anyone really able to capitalise by being the dominant force at that time?

[Tarmop]

Tänak and Latvala have been very consistent and fast this year. If not so anxious for that Rally Poland win instead of 2. place, three cylinders in Monte (2.--->3.), overheating issues in Mexico, team error on Rally Sweden final day, that didn`t allow him to compete for vicory, failed PS win in Sweden, things would be quite nice for Tänak. Latvala would be also close if not for the mech. issues...Neuville lost his championship in Spain.

[Mintexmemory]

Neuville lost his championship on the Monte.... and by extension, Ogier won his!
What people appear to overlook is that where one of the challengers might have done well that would normally have been at the expense of other challengers, not the champ.

[steve.mandzij]

Tänak and Latvala have been very consistent and fast this year. If not so anxious for that Rally Poland win instead of 2. place, failed PS win in Sweden, things would be quite nice for Tänak. Latvala would be also close if not for the mech. issues...Neuville lost his championship in Spain.According to my calculations if Latvala had finished 1st in Finland, 2nd in Poland and 6th in Germany and Spain, scoring two PS points in each, he'd be trailing Ogier by 8 points. He's my number one title challenger for next year.

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[Tarmop]

Neuville lost his championship on the Monte.... and by extension, Ogier won his!
What people appear to overlook is that where one of the challengers might have done well that would normally have been at the expense of other challengers, not the champ.

Umm, they all have "benefitted" from eachothers mistakes and that is part of (motor)sport. Ogier`s best examples are RMC, Sweden and Poland, in these cases he has won or claimed P3. Anyway, there`s a clear indicator now, that even 2 events before the end there is a mathemathical chance that Tänak or Neuville can get the title (yes, very slim, but it is there), whereas in last years things have been clear much before, that he is the champion...Spain 2016 for example.

[Nelly]

Tanak is going to Toyota should be announced in the coming days! Was told by a very reliable source on the way home from Spain this morning

[mknight]

If there are 3 competitive cars with Meeke, Neuville, Mikkelsen, Tanak, Latvala and Lappi all capable of winning on any given day which of these drivers will put together enough second and third places to gain points where one driver is winning? Which of these drivers has ever indicated they can handle the pressure of expectation? Which of these will be so superior under all conditions that they will win more than 4 events in the season. Yes Ogier had a poor run (unusual for him) but was anyone really able to capitalise by being the dominant force at that time?


a) you assume that all 3 cars are capable of winning on any given day.. that is never really the case. Citroen and Hyundai for example were clearly incapable of winning in Finland. Toyota was clearly incapable of winning in Mexico etc..

b) as others did you can use Tanak in same car as reference and the difference is rather minimal this year

[AL14]

a) you assume that all 3 cars are capable of winning on any given day.. that is never really the case. Citroen and Hyundai for example were clearly incapable of winning in Finland. Toyota was clearly incapable of winning in Mexico etc..

b) as others did you can use Tanak in same car as reference and the difference is rather minimal this year

a) So the cars were not capable to win all events. That's right Guess who is the ONLY one capable to get 'the most out from each event?
b) A minimal difference means that the championship is decided 3 events before finish?

[racerx1979]

Tanak is going to Toyota should be announced in the coming days! Was told by a very reliable source on the way home from Spain this morning

What I've been saying all along...

[mknight]

a) So the cars were not capable to win all events. That's right Guess who is the ONLY one capable to get 'the most out from each event?
b) A minimal difference means that the championship is decided 3 events before finish?

a) If "the most" for the car is 5-6th place in every event it doesn't matter much that the driver can achieve it in. Just after Finland people were writing Ogier off and Neuville was actually leading... and now Neuville gets two zeros and suddenly Ogier is the god almighty. I cheer on Ogier this year, but lets keep things real.

b) 1 DNF (technical/crash) and suddenly it's not decided at all. Anyway the point is that Tanak in same car with 3 crashes and 2 rally wins is not far behind shows that Seb is beatable.

But clearly this is pointless cause you have decided who is the ONLY one.

[AL14]

a) If "the most" for the car is 5-6th place in every event it doesn't matter much that the driver can achieve it in. Just after Finland people were writing Ogier off and Neuville was actually leading... and now Neuville gets two zeros and suddenly Ogier is the god almighty. I cheer on Ogier this year, but lets keep things real.

b) 1 DNF (technical/crash) and suddenly it's not decided at all. Anyway the point is that Tanak in same car with 3 crashes and 2 rally wins is not far behind shows that Seb is beatable.

But clearly this is pointless cause you have decided who is the ONLY one.


a) What championship have you watched? Ogier has always been the best, even after Finland to me. The "people" that were writing Ogier off are result oriented people and I am not among them . Ogier is not suddenly the god, he is dominating since 2013 and this year despite the difficulties has been capable to bring the car home getting the most from each event, contrary to his opponents that have not been able to do it. Like Neuville, that crashed in SSS while giving himself 80% to win championship. These are "real" things as well.

b) Ogier is human and beatable for sure but you said to keep things real and then you write an hypotesis. At the moment he is still the best. I hope Tanak will continue improving but he has to do it otherwise he is not yet at that level.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/Becsywecsy/status/917644496078364672


Is this the week for a driver announcement in #WRC? Eyes peeled everyone, I think something is expected ��

[er88]

No doubt Ott has landed a huge contract but I'm surprised he agreed to this move so early. The deal has been done for a while now if the rumours are correct, which I find a bit strange considering everything Malcolm has done for him. Don't know why he couldn't have waited a month or two longer, even just up to Spain/Wales to give Malcolm every chance to get Ford back or a title sponsor.

I also hope this doesn't mirror Duvals move to Citroen from Ford, or Martin's move to Peugeot. Both went for the money and lure of a team with a bigger budget, but both found it very difficult adjusting to a new car and finding the same pace they had. Mikko moving to Citroen was a similar case and Jari to VW slightly less so, but he still lost quite a bit of his raw speed for the first year especially. Drivers do find it difficult after leaving Ford/ Msport, that's just a historical fact. I hope it will be different for Ott because no doubt this season has been a huge step forward for him, in every single aspect. He's been brilliant.

Surely with Martin being Tanaks mentor somewhat, they've talked this through - the positives and the negatives. Given Otts age, he's got time on his side and I would have recommended to stay at Msport for one more season - even without the huge finance (if Malcolm can't get anything sorted). It's *his* car and he'd go into next season as maybe a title favourite (especially if seb goes to Citroen). Now he's lost that advantage and drivers like Jari and Neuville will start next season in cars that they are used to, and have fine tuned to their driving style. Even worse for Ott's championship hopes would be Seb staying at Msport, and starting a new season in the same car and building on his already great form.

The big contract for multiple years, the lure of being part of a big manufacturer team, and being based in Finland/ Estonia obviously made it too hard to resist and i can clearly see why he decided to go for it, but I just think he could have waited another year for this move.
Stay at Msport and have a big go for the title, then next year if the development slows up or there's still no signs of extra budget, Ott would not only have the option of Toyota for 2019, but Citroen and Hyundai as well (considering both of those teams would have multiple drivers out of contract).

Let's hope he has no trouble adapting to the Yaris and continues his upward trajectory though, because there's no doubt he's capable of being a championship winner. He has the speed now on all surfaces and the consistency as well. Toyota have exceeded a lot of expectations this year and the car is fast, but is quite a bit behind the Fiesta in terms of reliability and being good on all surfaces - the Yaris needs a bit of work on rougher gravel rallies.

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[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/917658582421856256


Told by a very well placed source that Tanak's move to Toyota is a done deal. Tell you why I think it's a bit of a gamble from the KT later
KT being Kitchen Table, a podcast coming soon.

[pantealex]

Well he's not driving a WRC car in 2018 for sure.

I´m not sure about later part of season 2018.

[rhm]

https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/917658582421856256


KT being Kitchen Table, a podcast coming soon.

Looking forward to fifteen minutes of contradictory waffle.


KT bingo:
Some speculation about the length of Ott's contract
How will he establish himself between Latvala and Lappi - is he a team leader
When will Latvala retire - is that Ott's big opportunity
The fact that Ott has shown better than Latvala on asphalt this year - the missing piece of Latvala's jigsaw
How big the Toyota budget is
How good a car the Yaris is
How good will the development be next year - is it the best car or have others moved ahead, ie Citroen
What next for MSport - if Seb goes to Citroen who is left on the market
Some speculation about Paddon moving to MSport to partner Evans and Sunninen

Etc. Etc.


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[pantealex]

So this year's drives in WRC2 with still no deal reached? is it only "test" drives?

Yes. They made deal for 3 Rallies (ERC+ 2x WRC2)
Nothing more at the moment.
But I would give biggest % for M-Sport deal 2018.

[racerx1979]

Well at least we have some gossip. The Tanak deal was solidified in Spain and Hanninen was dropped unless they run a 4th car. He is said to still do some testing work. Hence why he was emotional at the end of the stage. If that really is the case I sure hope the guy drives his ass off for the next two rallies.

Also could it be that Tanak knows he might be impaired if Ogier stays which seems to be the case and the team is running on a thin budget due to his staying. I wouldn’t want to be in that situation. I would leave to Toyota as well.

[AnttiL]

Also could it be that Tanak knows he might be impaired if Ogier stays which seems to be the case and the team is running on a thin budget due to his staying. I wouldn’t want to be in that situation. I would leave to Toyota as well.
There was the earlier rumor that Toyota would have to pay M-Sport a "transfer penalty" of Tänak, that would help them keep Ogier, in addition to having less expensive drivers in the team.

[Mintexmemory]

The deal has been done for a while now if the rumours are correct, which I find a bit strange considering everything Malcolm has done for him. Don't know why he couldn't have waited a month or two longer, even just up to Spain/Wales to give Malcolm every chance to get Ford back or a title sponsor.

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If this is true it indicates to me that Ogier is a strong possibility to stay at M-Sport as No1 driver. Ott is taking the gamble that equal status in the 'improved' Yaris will give him a better shot at the title than No2 to Seb.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There was the earlier rumor that Toyota would have to pay M-Sport a "transfer penalty" of Tänak, that would help them keep Ogier, in addition to having less expensive drivers in the team.

That would be a good compromise to keep Ogier.

Also M-Sport could then concentrate just on him for the driver's title and forget about fighting the factory team's for the Manufacturer's.

[er88]

That would be a good compromise to keep Ogier.

Also M-Sport could then concentrate just on him for the driver's title and forget about fighting the factory team's for the Manufacturer's.Yeah there would be more finance spare if they don't have to pay for both Ogier and Tanak next year, but I don't buy into this rumoured "transfer penalty". How can you have that when Ott's contract is up and he's free to speak to any team he wants? It's not like Toyota have to buy out his existing contract that has x number of years left to run...

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe Tanak has insisted on a payment to M-Sport as part of the deal..

[racerx1979]

Yeah there would be more finance spare if they don't have to pay for both Ogier and Tanak next year, but I don't buy into this rumoured "transfer penalty". How can you have that when Ott's contract is up and he's free to speak to any team he wants? It's not like Toyota have to buy out his existing contract that has x number of years left to run...

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I agree about the "transfer penalty". Contract is up and Ott is a free to do whatever the fu@k he wants

[tommeke_B]

Maybe Tanak has insisted on a payment to M-Sport as part of the deal..
So if you switch to a new employer, you ask him to pay something to your former employer because you like him?

[racerx1979]

Maybe Tanak has insisted on a payment to M-Sport as part of the deal..

There is not doubt Tanak feels bad about leaving Malcom since they have been together for a long time and Malcom has always supported and believed in Ott. But he has to do what is best for him and his family at the end of the day and I'm sure he knows that if Malcom had a choice he would choose Ogier over Ott.

[tomhlord]

Looking forward to fifteen minutes of contradictory waffle.

But that's exactly what you just did.......... ;)

[rhm]

Ha yeah, just for a bit of fun.
I'm trying to guess what will come up in the podcast, any further suggestions?

:P

[AnttiL]

Ha yeah, just for a bit of fun.
I'm trying to guess what will come up in the podcast, any further suggestions?

:P

I mean, obviously, half of the podcast will be about how great Kris Meeke and Citroen were in Spain

[Tarmop]

Contract made in Spain...Firstly a closelly connected person to Tänak and M-Sport said here already in August or early September that the deal is signed, now all this. :D

[smsgrafica]

Please remind me when Ott was being treated like a clear Nr. 2 driver? Because I haven't seen any team orders in fovour of Ogier this season...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So if you switch to a new employer, you ask him to pay something to your former employer because you like him?

No, but Tanak could play hardball and say he will stay at M-Sport unless Toyota pay a fee. After all there is no shortage of money in Toyota.

[AnttiL]

Contract made in Spain...Firstly a closelly connected person to Tänak and M-Sport said here already in August or early September that the deal is signed, now all this. :D

Yeah, WRC contracts are made over a weekend, it's a quick job, just write a paper, two copies, one for the team and one for the driver, both sign, that's it.

[er88]

No, but Tanak could play hardball and say he will stay at M-Sport unless Toyota pay a fee. After all there is no shortage of money in Toyota.Wishful thinking

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[racerx1979]

Please remind me when Ott was being treated like a clear Nr. 2 driver? Because I haven't seen any team orders in fovour of Ogier this season...

Please remind me of a reason when team orders needed to be given thus far?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wishful thinking.

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Just a theory to make sense of the rumour.

[rallyfiend]

I agree about the "transfer penalty". Contract is up and Ott is a free to do whatever the fu@k he wants

Not always.

As has been explained before, it's not unusual to have ongoing rights over future earnings.

It's well know that Neuville had to spend the first couple of years of Hyundai money paying back Malcolm and Nasser for his year in the Qatar car.

It's well assumed that Malcolm has such rights for Tanak too. For sure he's pumped enough money in to him over the years...

[Tarmop]

Well, Neuville was a different case, as he had a valid contract. Tänak said his will end with 2017 and he would be free to do what he likes.

[racerx1979]

Not always.

As has been explained before, it's not unusual to have ongoing rights over future earnings.

It's well know that Neuville had to spend the first couple of years of Hyundai money paying back Malcolm and Nasser for his year in the Qatar car.

It's well assumed that Malcolm has such rights for Tanak too. For sure he's pumped enough money in to him over the years...

As Tarmop said, Nueville was still under contract. Tanak is considered a "free agent".

[AnttiL]

Also a good blog post by Finnish motorsport journalist Miika Wuorela https://www.facebook.com/mwmsports/posts/682681151931491

[racerx1979]

The silly season does not want to quit, that's for sure. If Ogier goes to Hyundai what happens to Sordo and Paddon? Maybe someone gets demoted to WRC2 duties? Do Paddon and Sordo share the 4th car where Sordo drives on tarmac and Hayden on gravel?

[er88]

If Citroen aren't willing to put up the money for Seb they shouldn't have let Andreas go to Hyundai. Risky game to play once again by Matton.

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[mknight]

If Ogier goes to Hyundai and Tanak to Toyota we will have a 2 team championship... that's not good at all.

[Simmi]

I agree about the "transfer penalty". Contract is up and Ott is a free to do whatever the fu@k he wants

It all depends what deal he's signed with Wilson. Don't forget Ott would likely not be in the WRC right now if not for Malcolm. Look how many chances he gave him and how much work he's put into Ott's career. He's also a shrewd businessman so it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's written into Ott's past contracts that MW will take a cut of future earnings.

You get the same thing in football all the time with sell-on clauses. I have no idea whether this is true but I mentioned it on the forum about Ott a couple of weeks ago.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Correct Simmi. It's like a youth footballer being developed by a small club then a big one comes in and gets all the benefit.

Why would M-Sport bother developing young driver's just for rich teams to pinch them for free...

[AnttiL]

http://sport.delfi.ee/news/auto/tanakublogi/ott-tanaku-blogi-voin-oelda-et-jatkan-uuel-aastal-parimas-meeskonnas?id=79785120

So, what does Tänak exactly say in the ending of his blog post? Something like "the Estonian media makes jokes about my future but I'll continue in the best team next year"? What does that mean?

[Tarmop]

Tänak said that Estonian media picks up tweets (and also forum talk :D) too easily and presents them like 100% truth. He also said that he will join /continue in the strongest team, some little details to be cleared before announcing. So...is Toyota really the strongest team and being upset with those tweets that put him in the Toyota. I think there`s something else.:D

[mknight]

Best/Strongest team by results right now is clearly M-Sport.... even without the "continue" part.

[seb_sh]

Haha, the plot thickens! Whatever happens this is a fun silly season, for those who know what's going to happen and for those who don't.

[rallyfiend]

Tänak said that Estonian media picks up tweets (and also forum talk :D) too easily and presents them like 100% truth. He also said that he will join /continue in the strongest team, some little details to be cleared before announcing. So...is Toyota really the strongest team and being upset with those tweets that put him in the Toyota. I think there`s something else.:D

Strongest financially, maybe.

[Tarmop]

:D Maybe, but I don`t think this is the case atm. A little mistake by me actually, he said "the best" not "the strongest". And being a M-sport employee, which is quite comfortabely in the lead of both championships, I don`t think that any other team could be called "the best" atm...maybe Citroen will take next year with ease? Who knows, it`s possible, but imo a bit unreliable cars that are 3. and 4. in the championship can`t be considered the best even now, let alone in the future.

[EstWRC]

http://sport.delfi.ee/news/auto/tanakublogi/ott-tanaku-blogi-voin-oelda-et-jatkan-uuel-aastal-parimas-meeskonnas?id=79785120

So, what does Tänak exactly say in the ending of his blog post? Something like "the Estonian media makes jokes about my future but I'll continue in the best team next year"? What does that mean?

This is exacty what he says, nothing else .

what does he mean with it? only he knows.

[racerx1979]

I mean, obviously, half of the podcast will be about how great Kris Meeke and Citroen were in Spain

Well he didn't mention much about Meeke surprisingly. Mainly about Ott and Ogier.

https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/videos/826370267525638/

One of the interesting things Colin mentioned was the thought of Ogier waiting to see how the Citroen does in GB before closing his deal.

He also mentions Tanak having a hard time at TGR since they're an all Finn team and he is Estonian. I'm not sure this would be the case, but who knows.

[wrc2017]

Its Malcolm, probably personally, thats invested in Tanak, and im sure he is getting a split of his wages, so he is actually quite glad he is going to Toyota to get a return on his investment.
The buyout would only exist if Tanak was breaking a contract early. I dont believe this to be the case.
There was the earlier rumor that Toyota would have to pay M-Sport a "transfer penalty" of Tänak, that would help them keep Ogier, in addition to having less expensive drivers in the team.

[RS]

He also mentions Tanak having a hard time at TGR since they're an all Finn team and he is Estonian. I'm not sure this would be the case, but who knows.

I wouldn't have thought so as Finland and Estonia are quite close geographically and culturally, and Mäkinen already has links to Estonia where the TGR Fiestas are run from i believe?

[rp]

I wouldn't have thought so as Finland and Estonia are quite close geographically and culturally, and Mäkinen already has links to Estonia where the TGR Fiestas are run from i believe?

They should be professionals and it does not matter if the driver is Finnish or some other.

[AnttiL]

They speak mostly English anyway in the team.

[rallyfiend]

They speak mostly English anyway in the team.

Less and less, however, as the international people have walked out the door....

[Allez Andruet]

Less and less, however, as the international people have walked out the door....
Yeah, like native English speakers Lauri Riipinen and Jarmo Lehtinen.

[pantealex]

Less and less, however, as the international people have walked out the door....

There are more non Finnish people working now than there were beginning of year...

[Andre Oliveira]

Rumour about Sordo replacing Tänak in M-Sport.

Ogier, Sordo and Evans/Suninen sounds good?

[WRC1]

Rumour about Sordo replacing Tänak in M-Sport.

Ogier, Sordo and Evans/Suninen sounds good?

Ogier?? he stays?? I would love it!!!

[mknight]

That sounds really strange to me tbh..

- Can't see Malcolm paying Sordo anything (since he refuses to pay just about anyone).
- Can't see Sordo driving for free/no money either now towards the end of his career (no he's probably not going to end soon, but probably within 2-3 years).

- So the only option is some rich sponsors paying him... who would that be?

[Andre Oliveira]

Santander Totta?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hearing there's a story in Motoring News suggesting Ogier will either stay at M-Sport or retire..

They report that the French media say Citroen dont have the budget for him and a Hyundai offer has not been made.

[dimviii]

- So the only option is some rich sponsors paying him... who would that be?

Santander have paid him plenty of times.

[racerx1979]

The Hyundai offer was said to be weak and worthless.

[Andre Oliveira]

Hearing there's a story in Motoring News suggesting Ogier will either stay at M-Sport or retire..

They report that the French media say Citroen dont have the budget for him and a Hyundai offer has not been made.

Have you a link?

[GravelBen]

The Hyundai offer was said to be weak and worthless.

By who? Always funny when rumours are being passed around with no source.

Here is another rumour with no source: Ogier doesn't think there is enough challenge so he is going to try to win the 2018 title in an R2 car.

[racerx1979]

By Colin Clark.

The R2 rumor is true. He will be in a VW R2 which is being launched at Monte.

[mk1]

Cant see Ogier retire, few more years left in that guy i think at the top and thats exactly where he is, Ogier has done a great job considering he has a new car/manufacturer/team this year...thats a tough change.

He may end up back at Citroen tho if Sebastian Loeb continues in testing and setting the cars up brilliantly..

[giu canbera]

2018?? pfffffffffffffff
Theres no WRC in 2018... Theres no motorsport in Europe in 2018
https://www.motorsport.com/general/news/eu-directive-close-down-motorsport-964469/

jk... but this is pretty weird. Hope its just BS

[N.O.T]

2018?? pfffffffffffffff
Theres no WRC in 2018... Theres no motorsport in Europe in 2018
https://www.motorsport.com/general/news/eu-directive-close-down-motorsport-964469/

jk... but this is pretty weird. Hope its just BS

LOL...

worthless autist brits and their insurance obsession... a bunch of worthless toothless retards.

[EstWRC]

Tanak is going to Toyota should be announced in the coming days! Was told by a very reliable source on the way home from Spain this morning

tic-toc-tic-toc :D

[wrc2017]

did u read it or not?
LOL...

worthless autist brits and their insurance obsession... a bunch of worthless toothless retards.

[Archie Gillaine]

So many variables, and things up in the air.

So Tanak is seemingly off to Toyota; can you blame him? He’ll be paid as a top line driver and will hopefully get up to speed with the car & team pretty quickly. However, he is walking away from a known strong package; pretty fast everywhere, and reasonably reliable.

I don’t expect Ford Performance to back M-Sport, though I hope I’m incorrect. What is particularly galling, is that a top team, and likely double World Champions can’t attract a major big money sponsor. Something is wrong, and maybe outside the sport it’s still viewed as ‘unattractive’ which seems ridiculous.

[jparker]

If Ogier is available, Toyota may jump in. Even if Tommi doesn't get along with him, big bosses may push for it. I think is Japan vs. S. Korea kind of thing, and whoever gets Ogier will have big advantage. It will be bad for Tanak of course (or maybe not).

[racerx1979]

Japan vs Korea is a huge thing for Toyota high ups. Not so much the Tommi’s crew since they do not know about the history and rivalry between the two.

[bluuford]

tic-toc-tic-toc :D

And another week gone ;). but next week looks to become much better..., more sun and less rain :P

[tommeke_B]

And another week gone ;). but next week looks to become much better..., more sun and less rain :P

Is that the forecast for Cumbria or for Central Finland?

[Allez Andruet]

Is that the forecast for Cumbria or for Central Finland?

Any forecast containing "sun" for Finland at this time of year must be considered as extremely unreliable.

[AL14]

Any forecast containing "sun" for Finland at this time of year must be considered as extremely unreliable.

The same apply for Cumbria

[seb_sh]

Such teasing :D

[AnttiL]

The same apply for Cumbria

What a coincidence :D

https://twitter.com/davidevansrally/status/918422094370738177


Two and a bit weeks before @WalesRallyGB and look at those shadows... #sunshinenotarainyday

[Andre Oliveira]

And another week gone ;). but next week looks to become much better..., more sun and less rain :P

Still talking about weather? ;)

[bluuford]

Still talking about weather? ;)

Yes, about nice weather:)

[Simmi]

Anyone know if Paddon is set to test for GB this week? Reports that he was supposed to do the reccy for Catalunya but didn't show up...

I'm sure he's fuming about losing that seat, Mikkelsen, potentially limited campaign, Ogier rumours etc.

[mknight]

Well it's just a rumor Simmi just wrote (haven't seen it else myself).

But if he didn't show up for recce on purpose it's stupid no matter which team he is going to drive for.

Doing recce means getting paid to make notes and record vids of the stages. Having done notes and seen the stages is an asset and only helps in the future.

Unless he decided to stop driving tarmac rallies....

[er88]

Yes he'll be annoyed but he can't complain. He's regressed since the Argentina win well over a season ago (which was meant to be his breakthrough). One or two podiums since then and a string of bad results and crashes is worrying, not to mention non existent pace on the black stuff. The last two events will be massive for him this season. Let's hope he does well as I had high hopes for him and time is still on his side (age and experience wise, although time might be running out with Hyundai who need titles now).

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[Alex009]

So Tanak is seemingly off to Toyota; can you blame him?

Yes, you can. Stupid move from Tänak. From the best, fastest and most reliable car to the finnish joke, which is breaking down in every rally. With M-sport he could be champion, with Toyota... Never.

[steve.mandzij]

Yes, you can. Stupid move from Tänak. From the best, fastest and most reliable car to the finnish joke, which is breaking down in every rally. With M-sport he could be champion, with Toyota... Never.NOT, is that you?

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[ESTR]

Hearing there's a story in Motoring News suggesting Ogier will either stay at M-Sport or retire..

They report that the French media say Citroen dont have the budget for him and a Hyundai offer has not been made.

That guy demands are too high. SO what if he is world champion multiple times. He is clearly making fool of everbody and I would be laughing if no one wants him. Then he would accept and not hesitate like he rule the world... Sorry but many guys dream of being just in any team in wrc...

Shame that no one sees Kajetan Kajetanowicz! He won 3rd title of ERC and still they prefer looking for youngsters who have 2 or 3 ralies in wrc behind...

[rhm]

Shame that no one sees Kajetan Kajetanowicz! He won 3rd title of ERC and still they prefer looking for youngsters who have 2 or 3 ralies in wrc behind...

No disrespect but WRC and ERC are worlds apart.


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[BigWorm]

That guy demands are too high. SO what if he is world champion multiple times. He is clearly making fool of everbody and I would be laughing if no one wants him. Then he would accept and not hesitate like he rule the world... Sorry but many guys dream of being just in any team in wrc...

Shame that no one sees Kajetan Kajetanowicz! He won 3rd title of ERC and still they prefer looking for youngsters who have 2 or 3 ralies in wrc behind...
Kajetan’s performance in WRC2 in Poland wasn’t exactly eyecatching, I can see why youngsters, who potentially can develop more, are more in demand than him.

[er88]

Yes, you can. Stupid move from Tänak. From the best, fastest and most reliable car to the finnish joke, which is breaking down in every rally. With M-sport he could be champion, with Toyota... Never.Tanak has gone for the money. Every man and his dog knows that.

He has to just hope that 1) He doesn't take too long to adapt to the car and 2) Toyota improve the car on rougher gravel rallies and the cars general reliability.

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

For once I agree with Colin Clark, it would be a big gamble by Tanak adapting to a new car & team.

Staying at M-Sport in a car & team he knows so well could be his best chance of ever winning the title.

[AnttiL]

That sounds really strange to me tbh..

- Can't see Malcolm paying Sordo anything (since he refuses to pay just about anyone).
- Can't see Sordo driving for free/no money either now towards the end of his career (no he's probably not going to end soon, but probably within 2-3 years).

- So the only option is some rich sponsors paying him... who would that be?

Hyundai still has to pay him for 2018 anyway?

[bugwrx]

Wtf ... Tänak is not joining toyota lol ..

[ESTR]

Wtf ... Tänak is not joining toyota lol ..

And from where did you know that?

[AL14]

"a very reliable source, announcement will be made within the week"

[GravelBen]

Well it's just a rumor Simmi just wrote (haven't seen it else myself).

But if he didn't show up for recce on purpose it's stupid no matter which team he is going to drive for.

Doing recce means getting paid to make notes and record vids of the stages. Having done notes and seen the stages is an asset and only helps in the future.


I'd be very surprised if that was the case, his professionalism and hard work is quite well known.

More likely it just came from someone making up rubbish for attention, thats how a lot of rumours start.

[Simmi]

I'd be very surprised if that was the case, his professionalism and hard work is quite well known.

More likely it just came from someone making up rubbish for attention, thats how a lot of rumours start.

Well did anyone see him in Catalunya? The info came from Julian Porter at a pre-rally fan briefing so I don't think it's some rubbish for attention.

[rallyfiend]

Well did anyone see him in Catalunya? The info came from Julian Porter at a pre-rally fan briefing so I don't think it's some rubbish for attention.

PErhaps he knows he's not doing the rally in 2018.

For sure if he and Dani are sharing a car, Dani would be chosen for his home event...

[RS]

Shame that no one sees Kajetan Kajetanowicz! He won 3rd title of ERC and still they prefer looking for youngsters who have 2 or 3 ralies in wrc behind...

If you could cross Kajto's reliability with Lukyanuk's speed then maybe.. but both are too old. Everyone is looking to find the next Loeb or Ogier before some other team gets them under contract. Mini-Solberg will probably be the next one to be hyped up now that Rovanpera is knocking on a bit.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wtf ... Tänak is not joining toyota lol ..


And from where did you know that?

Maybe this ?

https://i.imgur.com/dE2kREK.jpg

[AnttiL]

So it's again based on the Autosport article, which is an interpretation by David Evans of what Tänak said in the M-Sport Rally Day

[Hartusvuori]

If you could cross Kajto's reliability with Lukyanuk's speed then maybe.. but both are too old. Everyone is looking to find the next Loeb or Ogier before some other team gets them under contract. Mini-Solberg will probably be the next one to be hyped up now that Rovanpera is knocking on a bit.

Out of ERC field I'd love to see Gryazin in WRC2. Isn't he well backed up?

[jparker]

Well, what Tanak is saying in above article has been known to him for a long time. Why didn't he reject Toyota deal right from the beginning then?
1. Toyota didn't not offered enough as compensation for what he is about to loose leaving M-Sport?
2. Something to do with Ogier?
3. Something else?

[RS]

Out of ERC field I'd love to see Gryazin in WRC2. Isn't he well backed up?

Yes, rich Daddy but the boy has talent too.

I'd like to see him try and take the overall ERC title first and then move on to WRC2.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Out of ERC field I'd love to see Gryazin in WRC2. Isn't he well backed up?

There have been many good talents emerge in the ERC in the last few years but finance is almost always the dictator of their future career.

My favourite was Ralfs Sirmacis - he showed real speed and talent winning three European events in 2016, yet has now disappeared through lack of funding.

[AL14]

Here's my humble speculation about Ott:

When things are not clear it's often because parts are negotiating and they are trying to get the most out of that negotiation. So Tanak is, in my opinion, presumably going to sit in a Toyota next year but he is taking time to have a good agreement, and I mean not just in terms of money. In order to do that he's saying, also publicy how good he is in M-Sport and that they are the best team. That would increase his value? We just have to wait.

[spiderem]

Audi to pay Ogier's salary next year and let him drive for M-Sport to do the championship, whilst developing the Audi S1 WRC for a full return of Audi in 2019.
:)

[Kaspark]

Audi to pay Ogier's salary next year and let him drive for M-Sport to do the championship, whilst developing the Audi S1 WRC for a full return of Audi in 2019.
:)



Margus Murakas, rally driver from Estonia, created Audi S1 rallycar for Rally Saaremaa, and it looks so damn nice

https://image.ibb.co/npBRwG/cc52859e09b88e082d_79820096.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/hkBgVb/cc2.jpg

[steve.mandzij]

Margus Murakas, rally driver from Estonia, created Audi S1 rallycar for Rally Saaremaa, and it looks so damn nice

https://image.ibb.co/npBRwG/cc52859e09b88e082d_79820096.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/hkBgVb/cc2.jpgWe have Audi A1 MR in Argentina :D

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

No Hyundai for Ogier in 2018...

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/10/13/nandan-bestaetigt-ogier-2018-nicht-bei-hyundai-ohne-sordo-nach-australien/

[ESTR]

"a very reliable source, announcement will be made within the week"

Always this reliable source. But no name, just source...

[Norm75]

Always this reliable source. But no name, just source...
He said a few posts back it was Julian Porter.

[AnttiL]

No Hyundai for Ogier in 2018...

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/10/13/nandan-bestaetigt-ogier-2018-nicht-bei-hyundai-ohne-sordo-nach-australien/

Now if Ogier makes a deal with Citroen, it's probably longer than just one year. But if they could scrape together a budget for staying at M-Sport in 2018, he would probably be welcomed to Hyundai for 2019 with Sordo's and Paddon's contracts expiring.

[GravelBen]

Margus Murakas, rally driver from Estonia, created Audi S1 rallycar for Rally Saaremaa, and it looks so damn nice

https://image.ibb.co/npBRwG/cc52859e09b88e082d_79820096.jpg


Audi S1 AP4 in NZRC as well :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClvNNJJSb5Y

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DICNFKRUAAAkAsa.jpg:large

[racerx1979]

More on the Margus built Audi.

https://tv3play.tv3.ee/sisu/seitsmesed-2017/874087

[Andre Oliveira]

A guess to 2018:


M-Sport Ford WRT

#1 Sébastien Ogier
#2 Teemu Suninen
#3 Pontus Tidemand
#4 Elfyn Evans


Hyundai Motorsport

#5 Thierry Neuville
#6 Andreas Mikkelsen
#7 Dani Sordo
#8 Hayden Paddon


Toyota Gazoo Racing WRT

#9 Jari-Matti Latvala
#10 Ott Tänak
#11 Juho Hänninen
#12 Esapekka Lappi


Citroën Total Abu Dhabi WRT

#14 Kris Meeke
#15 Craig Breen
#16 Stéphane Lefebvre
#17 Khalid Al-Qassimi


OneBet Adapta Ford WRT

#18 Mads Østberg

[rhm]

A guess to 2018:


M-Sport Ford WRT

#1 Sébastien Ogier
#2 Teemu Suninen
#3 Pontus Tidemand
#4 Elfyn Evans


Hyundai Motorsport

#5 Thierry Neuville
#6 Andreas Mikkelsen
#7 Dani Sordo
#8 Hayden Paddon


Toyota Gazoo Racing WRT

#9 Jari-Matti Latvala
#10 Ott Tänak
#11 Juho Hänninen
#12 Esapekka Lappi


Citroën Total Abu Dhabi WRT

#14 Kris Meeke
#15 Craig Breen
#16 Stéphane Lefebvre
#17 Khalid Al-Qassimi


OneBet Adapta Ford WRT

#18 Mads Østberg

I think we'll only have three car teams.
Hänninen will be gone.
Tänak will go Toyota.
Ogier will stay at MSport, with Evans.
Have a feeling Paddon will got to MSport.
Meeke, Breen & Lefebvre/Loeb with a couple of one-offs.
Whoever has the most backing between Suninen & Tidemand will number 3 at MSport. Or a split campaign and take both their money



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[Andre Oliveira]

Not a surprise if Adapta appears with two cars with Østberg and Tidemand.

[ESTR]

My guess...

WRC 2018:

M-Sport (probably not Ford backing):
-Elfyn Evans
-Teemu Suninen
-Tidemand/Camilli (DMACK-Maybe they will have with two cars)

Citroen Total Abu Dhabi WRT:
-Sebastien Ogier
-Kris Meeke
-Breen/Loeb/Qassimi (Maybe Lefebvre too)

Toyota GAZOO Racing:
-Jari-Matti Latvala
-Ott Tanak
-Esapekka Lappi

Hyundai Motorsport:
-Thierry Neuville
-Andres Mikkelsen
-Sordo/Paddon (Share third car-maybe have 4 for some events)

OneBet Adapta WRT (if team will have enough money):
-Mads Ostberg

WRC2:

Skoda Motorsport (if they stay in sport):
-Juso Nordgren
-Jan Kopecky

Hyundai HMI Italia:
-Jari Huttunen

PH-Sport (Citroen):
-Stephane Lefebvre (Maybe Breen too)

M-Sport:
-Kalle Rovanperra
-Eric Camilli

Proton, Opel & Volkswagen will probably not competing.

[Mirek]

Škoda Motorsport for sure stays. The question is only with which drivers. I expect Ole-Christian Veiby to be one of them.

VW Polo will be likely homologated only before Rally Germany so no WRC2 for VW for sure.

[sete]

but Skoda without Kopecky if I understand well

[Mirek]

It's still opened.

[AnttiL]

Tidemand still has an option for one year at Skoda, but I'm sure he would like to already step up to WRC. There was a rumor of Kopecky going elsewhere, but I guess it didn't work out after all. I'm guessing Skoda will have Kopecky and Veiby next year. Nordgren's performance in Wales will probably be crucial for his next year drives.

Now there's really only one moving part in the puzzle and it's Ogier. If he stays at M-Sport, there's one vacant seat of Tänak's (assuming he's off to Toyota). If Ogier goes to Citroen or retires, there's two seats at M-Sport. And there's three potential drivers for those seats: Suninen, Camilli and Tidemand. And finally, we don't know if Evans is going to do another year in the DMack car or drive just for M-Sport.

[pantealex]

Hyundai will have 2 car R5 team, Huttunen is second driver, other have great experience and is very fast. (Not driver from Finland or Sweden) I´m not going tell more, don´t ask ;)

[RS]

Tidemand still has an option for one year at Skoda, but I'm sure he would like to already step up to WRC. There was a rumor of Kopecky going elsewhere, but I guess it didn't work out after all. I'm guessing Skoda will have Kopecky and Veiby next year. Nordgren's performance in Wales will probably be crucial for his next year drives.

I would be surprised if Veiby isn't in the works seat next year, he is with Even management and at this stage he is quicker and more experienced than Nordgren.

Maybe they will send Nordgren to APRC?

[Zeakiwi]

Hyundai will have 2 car R5 team, Huttunen is second driver, other have great experience and is very fast. (Not driver from Finland or Sweden) I´m not going tell more, don´t ask ;)

Bring back Novikov?

[AnttiL]

I would be surprised if Veiby isn't in the works seat next year, he is with Even management and at this stage he is quicker and more experienced than Nordgren.

Maybe they will send Nordgren to APRC?

Agreed, Nordgren isn't yet ready for WRC2

[rp]

I would be surprised if Veiby isn't in the works seat next year, he is with Even management and at this stage he is quicker and more experienced than Nordgren.

Maybe they will send Nordgren to APRC?

Veiby is surely there. He has showed his speed and is ready.

Was thinking the same that if Nordgren is able to drive clever rally in Wales he will be SKODA´s 3rd driver. APRC and some WRC and Finnish Championship events would be great for him...

[dupanton]

Bring back Novikov?

My guess is Duval...

[Allez Andruet]

My guess is Duval...

I'll go with Pekka Vilpponen.

[rp]

I'll go with Pekka Vilpponen.

I would say Aki Mökkönen, because he is very fast! :)

[eib1]

Lukyanuk :)

[er88]

Im sure Suninen will drive for Msport next year, just don't know whether he'll be in a Dmack shod car or run with Michelins.

There's really no point in Evans continuing with Dmacks now, he needs to step up to Michelin rubber to get a better idea of his level against the others. As it is now, whenever he has a superb result it can be attributed to the tyres, and when he has an awful result it's the same. Big season for him next year.

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[Simmi]

Hyundai will have 2 car R5 team, Huttunen is second driver, other have great experience and is very fast. (Not driver from Finland or Sweden) I´m not going tell more, don´t ask ;)

Kopecky would be my guess. Get the thing sorted on tarmac and still very quick on gravel.

[tommeke_B]

For "first" WRC2 driver it would make sense for Hyundai to let Paddon or Sordo do the job... Both are experienced and very fast. :) One of them will be demoted to 4th driver anyway, maybe a program consisting of WRC2 + additional events with WRC for the unluckiest of the 2? I don't see why Hyundai should attract an extra driver, while they already have 4 drivers who deserve a WRC seat.

[spiderem]

My guess is Duval...

My guess is Conrad Rautenbach

[pantealex]

For "first" WRC2 driver it would make sense for Hyundai to let Paddon or Sordo do the job... Both are experienced and very fast. :) One of them will be demoted to 4th driver anyway, maybe a program consisting of WRC2 + additional events with WRC for the unluckiest of the 2? I don't see why Hyundai should attract an extra driver, while they already have 4 drivers who deserve a WRC seat.

I hope there is no mandatory events so both Paddon and Sordo can drive full WRC2 season ;)
6 rallies for both and 7th to that driver who needs it more or if both needs Huttunen can drive 3rd WRC18...

[mArvAlcao17]

Tidemand still has an option for one year at Skoda, but I'm sure he would like to already step up to WRC. There was a rumor of Kopecky going elsewhere, but I guess it didn't work out after all. I'm guessing Skoda will have Kopecky and Veiby next year. Nordgren's performance in Wales will probably be crucial for his next year drives.

Now there's really only one moving part in the puzzle and it's Ogier. If he stays at M-Sport, there's one vacant seat of Tänak's (assuming he's off to Toyota). If Ogier goes to Citroen or retires, there's two seats at M-Sport. And there's three potential drivers for those seats: Suninen, Camilli and Tidemand. And finally, we don't know if Evans is going to do another year in the DMack car or drive just for M-Sport.

Tbh i don't really see Camilli have a chance to step up to WRC next year unless he got some funding to run as privateer. Tbh i liked him and he's getting consistent this year

I still believe:
1. he had no fund/much less money than people thought him as pay driver
2. he went to top class too premature. with only 3-4 gravel rallies & 1 season on 4WD car before jumping into WRC car is not ideal

[ESTR]

About Camilli.. I think that he have no chance, maybe, just maybe if there will be two cars at DMACK (they wanted to have 2 this year). But that are just thoughts. What I saw he is doing better when he was not signed for WRC2 points.

About Hyundai and someone mention 2 cars in WRC2 category. Huttunen is obviously 2nd driver if that is true. And I think that Chewon Lim wouldn't be first because he isn't at that level. My thoughts is that Paddon will be there. He is fast and because of his dissaster season it's logic. But what I read and someone said that before, Hyundai New Zealand is prepare to pay for him for whole season at top level. And that Toyota is interest for that market there but Hyundai's there are determined for him.. I think that they would not put Sordo down, that would be embarrassing. And also looking for another driver is pointless.

[Duvel]

For "first" WRC2 driver it would make sense for Hyundai to let Paddon or Sordo do the job... Both are experienced and very fast. :) One of them will be demoted to 4th driver anyway, maybe a program consisting of WRC2 + additional events with WRC for the unluckiest of the 2? I don't see why Hyundai should attract an extra driver, while they already have 4 drivers who deserve a WRC seat.

Paddon stepping back to WRC2 i can see happening, But i think Sordo would rather quit than go to WRC2.

[Munkvy]

Paddon stepping back to WRC2 i can see happening, But i think Sordo would rather quit than go to WRC2.

I agree, why would Sordo go backwards? He has said before that if he doesn't feel he is competitive anymore he would quit. He could easily start a tarmac driving school in addition to the go kart track and make a comfortable living? I can see the logic to doing a partial program for Paddon on gravel and Sordo on tarmac, you get the best of both drivers and both are capable of winning on their preferred surface. But doing that would spell the end to both their WRC careers I feel.

Hayden is well liked in NZ and Hyundai really seem to back him here, ie setting up their own AP4 car which he is then allowed to share around who drives it etc. So I don't imagine they would want him to leave as he is a great ambassador for them. Whether a WRC2 program is an option I don't know, but I would imagine he would do everything to avoid it if possible as that's pretty much a death sentence on your career... Very few people have been lucky enough to be kicked out of a WRC and then promoted back into the WRC later on!

[ESTR]

That is only M-Sport's school. Quick raise to the top level, next down a little then raise again and that's it.

[sollitt]

Talk of Paddon doing WRC2 surely is nonsense. Why would it happen? Some of you need to face reality. Until his season went off the rails last year Paddon easily had the measure of both his team mates and also Mikkelsen. I expect 2018 will see a vastly different Paddon to 2017 together with some added reliability in the car. I would expect to see him leading the charge at Hyundai for some years to come.

[mknight]

I can see the logic to doing a partial program for Paddon on gravel and Sordo on tarmac, you get the best of both drivers and both are capable of winning on their preferred surface. But doing that would spell the end to both their WRC careers I feel.


Aren't we almost there already?

Yes car let both down quite a few times but...
Sordo did decent on most gravel rallies, but that means getting 3-5 place, depending on how many of the top retire (top being Ogier, Tanak, Neuville, Latvala). Good as 3rd car for collecting points yes, but probably can't expect to get better at this point. On tarmac it was 4th in Monte (behind all the mentioned drivers), 3rd place in Corsica (close, but due to Ogier technical problems) and then 2x DNF.

Sadly for Paddon it does not look much better, inconsistent on gravel (with many car issues) is one thing, but the lack of tarmac progress is more worrying.

Yes it totally makes sense to keep both and switch them in 3rd car or occasionally run 4th car until end of their contract, but something needs to change if they are to get a new one. I hope Paddon shows some consistency in the next round, even without top 3 pace.

----------------
Edit:

Talk of Paddon doing WRC2 surely is nonsense. Why would it happen? Some of you need to face reality. Until his season went off the rails last year Paddon easily had the measure of both his team mates and also Mikkelsen. I expect 2018 will see a vastly different Paddon to 2017 together with some added reliability in the car. I would expect to see him leading the charge at Hyundai for some years to come.

No point in WRC2, but other tarmac rounds are clearly needed, else he won't be leading any charge.
Yes last season he did well... but nevertheless ended behind both Neuville and Mikkelsen in the standings.

[er88]

Talk of Paddon doing WRC2 surely is nonsense. Why would it happen? Some of you need to face reality. Until his season went off the rails last year Paddon easily had the measure of both his team mates and also Mikkelsen. I expect 2018 will see a vastly different Paddon to 2017 together with some added reliability in the car. I would expect to see him leading the charge at Hyundai for some years to come.The problem Hayden has is what has he done since he won in Argentina, over a year and a half ago?

That should've been the springboard for him to go from strength to strength and start competing with the big boys regularly. Instead, he's been off the pace, had lots of crashes, had non existent pace on tarmac and failed to deliver many good results at all (2 podiums since that win? Or 3?)

His form has played a big part in Hyundai not having a shot at the manufactures title more than Sordo's form has, and the time has come where Hyundai need to win titles in the WRC. So it's obvious something had to be changed, and Paddon was the easy target for Spain.

Thankfully he's still got age on his side and can bounce back, and maybe in Wales and Australia he can regain some front running pace. He's also seen his team mate Neuville go through a longish slump and eventually turn it around, so despite their differences, maybe he should have a word with Thierry about what he did to comeback a stronger driver. Hyundai should also know what it takes. He's a really likeable guy and I'd love it if he keeps a fulltime seat next year but things aren't looking too positive right now

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[ESTR]

I think that half of his problems start because of that horrible accident. No one deserves that. He is not guilty of anything. Such a bad luck...And then changing co-driver, few technical issues just pour gasoline into the fire. Then Rally New Zealand (which he really wish that would return to calendar) was not accepted. Really season to forget, except one really good result of Poland. And bench him really doesn't help.

I really wanted to see him again on the trail. We probably (fans) doesn't want to see him be in WRC2 next year but we can't do anything if bosses say so...

What about Breen. He is doing fantastic job at Citroen this year. And if Ogi come to the team he will share a car, probably with Loeb and Qassimi (each 3 rounds) and what left for Breen half a season... That's gift for hard work he's been doing... Well done team Citroen...


That's why I cheer for 4 cars next season. It would be a lot easier... But clearly a lot more expensive...

[Munkvy]

His form has played a big part in Hyundai not having a shot at the manufactures title more than Sordo's form has, and the time has come where Hyundai need to win titles in the WRC. So it's obvious something had to be changed, and Paddon was the easy target for Spain.



I think Neuville has played a big part in Hyundais championship failure. He threw away two perfect results completely needlessly at the beginning of the season, in a car that it's been clear over the year has been designed around him and his driving style. Then he has failed to finish in the last two rounds, further screwing Hyundai, on surfaces where he was expected to lead the charge for Hyundai. And Hayden then finished the best of the Hyundais on tarmac in Germany, which says a lot about the teams year...

Hopefully Hyundai give Hayden a second chance next year, and they are rewarded like they were with Neuville after his massive slump.

[GravelBen]

...Instead, he's been off the pace, had lots of crashes, had non existent pace on tarmac and failed to deliver many good results at all (2 podiums since that win? Or 3?)


I think your memory is missing a few things, he has still had good pace on gravel this year, yes made a few mistakes but been let down by car problems more often.

-Running in podium position in Mexico before car problems
-Argentina a couple of stage wins but out of contention due to early roll and later car problems
-Portugal a few stage wins and was in contention before car problems
-Sardinia a couple of stage wins and leading most of the rally before crashing
-Poland P2 and a couple of stage wins
-Finland unlucky with hitting rocks but fastest Hyundai and top 5 placings on almost every stage he did.

Agreed that he needs more improvement on tarmac, he is faster than he was but not close enough to the top yet.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Maybe Tanak to Toyota, Ogier to Citroen and Neuville to M-Sport Ford. Don't discount the last one if he does not win the WDC this season.

[dimviii]

TGR_WRC‏*@TGR_WRC 5m

Welcome to the TOYOTA GAZOO Racing WRT in 2018 Ott Tänak! Read more here: https://goo.gl/pAv81H

[AnttiL]

Tänak confirmed to Toyota

[ESTR]

Maybe Tanak to Toyota, Ogier to Citroen and Neuville to M-Sport Ford. Don't discount the last one if he does not win the WDC this season.

Thierry to M-sport - total nonsense. He have contract and Hyundai will not let him get away. Like at that time in 2016 he nearly go away but that didn't happen.

We would see possible moves only for free drivers, not that ones who have contracts. That's Ogier, Tanak, maybe Tidemand, Ostberg...

[ESTR]

http://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2017/wrc/1018-01.html

[AnttiL]

Updated Tänak to opening post listing

[JUF]

Maybe Citroen and M-Sport (depends on which team Ogier is going to) should start talking with Sordo and Paddon. Sordo is a solid point scorer while Paddon is still a rather promising talent who is able to fight for the title in future. I think it´s a better choice than bringing back Ostberg and Camilli in case of M-Sport or Lefebvre in case of Citroen...

[AnttiL]

Maybe Citroen and M-Sport (depends on which team Ogier is going to) should start talking with Sordo and Paddon. Sordo is a solid point scorer while Paddon is still a rather promising talent who is able to fight for the title in future. I think it´s a better choice than bringing back Ostberg and Camilli in case of M-Sport or Lefebvre in case of Citroen...

In the case of Citroen, if they don't get Ogier, I think they'll switch between Lefebvre, Loeb and Al-Qassimi in the third car. They don't really have an open seat for a full time driver unless you take away Breen's seat, but ATM it seems Breen's doing just as well as Sordo or Paddon.

If it's true that Ford will get more backing and now that Tänak's gone, maybe M-Sport can afford Ogier after all, and maybe he's convinced to stay there? Third seat to be decided between Suninen, Tidemand and Camilli. But hard to say which one gets picked. I wouldn't doubt hiring Suninen, but most likely it's not that simple.

[mmm]

Sorry for Paddon and Sordo, but you can now clearly see why Hyundai had to get someone who can deliver result right now. Getting beaten by Toyota in 2018, just on their second season since returning, would be a big no-no!

[Tarmop]

Sordo is a consistent deliverer...

[tomhlord]

Sordo is a consistent deliverer...

*was

[AnttiL]

Well Sordo hadn't made any driving mistakes this year until Deutschland and has had numerous technical issues but still quite high in the points ranking. He's not a winner, but...a constant deliverer if something.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak to Toyota was the worst kept secret.

But now it's confirmed it surely cant be long now til we find out the the big one - Ogier's situation.

[Tarmop]

mh?

[AnttiL]

give Paddon a break,how would you feel if your partner of 9 years was having an affair with someone near the top of Hyundai Motorsport

Wow, that sucks if it's true.

Also, the tragicness of the accident in Monte Carlo was not his fault by any means. Also lots of technical failures this year, but also quite many driving mistakes and being off the pace in the tarmac rallies.

[Rally Power]

I think Neuville has played a big part in Hyundais championship failure. He threw away two perfect results completely needlessly at the beginning of the season, in a car that it's been clear over the year has been designed around him and his driving style. Then he has failed to finish in the last two rounds, further screwing Hyundai, on surfaces where he was expected to lead the charge for Hyundai.

It doesn’t make sense to blame Neuville; till Catalunya, he gave Hyundai 141 manu pts (almost 3 times more than Paddon). In a leveled field like the current WRC, it’s hard for a manu to win the series with only one top driver and that was Hyundai main problem, besides some mechanical weakness that become evident in spain.

Btw, how can you be so sure the i20 was developed around Neuville? He actually was the last one testing it, only after extending his contract in October 2016.

[AnttiL]

Btw, how can you be so sure the i20 was developed around Neuville? He actually was the last one testing it, only after extending his contract in October 2016.

It's been said that Neuville never felt comfortable in the older Hyundai WRC cars, but the 2017 model was like made for him, meanwhile the new car does not suit Paddon's driving style and at the start of the season Paddon tried to adapt his style to the car but it did not work out.

[ESTR]

It's been said that Neuville never felt comfortable in the older Hyundai WRC cars, but the 2017 model was like made for him, meanwhile the new car does not suit Paddon's driving style and at the start of the season Paddon tried to adapt his style to the car but it did not work out.

Just like Latvala and polo, he try to copy Ogier and have no success either.. I'm sure when he find that right setup he will be flying for all back and forward...

[pantealex]

Tanak to Toyota was the worst kept secret.



But took over 2 months for You to believe it...

[Rally Power]

It's been said that Neuville never felt comfortable in the older Hyundai WRC cars, but the 2017 model was like made for him, meanwhile the new car does not suit Paddon's driving style and at the start of the season Paddon tried to adapt his style to the car but it did not work out.

If you have a capable driver involved in a car development since day 1, you may say the car was designed around him. It was the case with Loeb’s C4/DS3, Ogier and the Polo and even Tanak with the current Fiesta, but Neuville only took his first contact with the ’17 i20 two months after the testing/development started with Abbring, Sordo and Paddon at the wheel. It’s true that Neuville, like Sordo, has managed to easily adapt to the active diff, while Paddon struggled a bit with it, but that doesn’t necessarily means the i20 was designed with driver A, B or C in mind.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Wow, that sucks if it's true.



The affair...

True, yes.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

But took over 2 months for You to believe it...

Because although it made sense for him financially, it didnt car-wise. He may yet live to regret leaving the winning Team.

[RS]

Kopecky would be my guess (for Hyundai WRC2 seat) Get the thing sorted on tarmac and still very quick on gravel.

He would be a good choice for them and he also wants to do a full WRC2 season. I'm sure Hyundai Czech Republic would also like somebody to win Rally Bohemia and Barum for them!

Would be a bit of a risk for Kopecky though as thus far I haven't seen anything to suggest the i20 is quite as good as the Fabia or Fiesta.

[Mirek]

I'm sure Hyundai Czech Republic would also like somebody to win Rally Bohemia and Barum for them!

Hyundai Czech has big mouth but that's all they are capable of - sadly. Their Czech department is driven by morons and that's not an exaggeration.

[er88]

The affair...

True, yes.Might well be, which is sad for him.

However with you saying its true, I have a bit more hope that it's a load of shoite, considering your track record for spouting nonsense on here.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

what affair? im sorry i dont get it.

[dimviii]

what affair? im sorry i dont get it.

you have pm

[racerx1979]

Isn't his GF Katie Lane also a big promoter for him? She is still listed on Paddon's site...

Could be the cause of some of his issues if these shiotty rumors are indeed true.

[eib1]

hope Paddon will call Malcolm soon (or has already called), his career needs some refreshment...

[racerx1979]

Not sure if Paddon will leave Hyundai especially since Hyundai in NZ is also a big supporter / sponsor of his.

But then again, money talks...

[dimviii]

Colin about Tanak move to Toyota,and more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMv5WVZAFfM&feature=youtu.be

[SubaruNorway]

Isn't his GF Katie Lane also a big promoter for him? She is still listed on Paddon's site...

Could be the cause of some of his issues if these shiotty rumors are indeed true.

He has a new GF now, a beautiful Italian co-driver Maddalena Mureddu

[Munkvy]

It doesn’t make sense to blame Neuville; till Catalunya, he gave Hyundai 141 manu pts (almost 3 times more than Paddon). In a leveled field like the current WRC, it’s hard for a manu to win the series with only one top driver and that was Hyundai main problem, besides some mechanical weakness that become evident in spain.

Btw, how can you be so sure the i20 was developed around Neuville? He actually was the last one testing it, only after extending his contract in October 2016.

I am not blaming Neuville alone. I said that part of the blame lies with him. At the end of the day he has been in comfortable positions and thrown them away. Paddon has had an extremely difficult year for all the very well known reasons. And there has been some technical problems too, so it's not one person alone at fault. But certainly I don't believe the people who say it's Neuvilles team mates that caused Hyundai to not win the championship this year.

[ESTR]

Nandan said ''if'' the team recognize that the car is fragile, then they don't deserve the title and that they will work even more to improve...

[sollitt]

It's neither necessary nor appropriate to discuss someone's private issues on this public forum. If personal matters are effecting performances it is sufficient just to say that.

[sollitt]

Nandan said ''if'' the team recognize that the car is fragile, then they don't deserve the title and that they will work even more to improve...

I consider Nandan to be a clever operator and I imagine that he is well aware that the car hasn't delivered the reliability that they needed to win the title. He'll also know that drivers capable of winning at this level will have volatile personalities and they will have peaks and troughs in their performances. He will further know that Paddon, alongside Neuville and Mikkelsen, is one of the few drivers with the genuine pace capable of winning events ... and therefore titles.

[mknight]

.. is one of the few drivers with the genuine pace capable of winning events ... and therefore titles.

The first one is in no way guarantee for the second part for like 95% of drivers.
For some it's actually quite the opposite, they can't win title cause they charge too much and don't settle for 3-4th when they don't have pace to win.

[sollitt]

The first one is in no way guarantee for the second part for like 95% of drivers.
For some it's actually quite the opposite, they can't win title cause they charge too much and don't settle for 3-4th when they don't have pace to win.

If you are capable of winning events you are capable of winning titles. What you're talking about is something other than capability.

[tomhlord]

hope Paddon will call Malcolm soon (or has already called), his career needs some refreshments...

That would be ideal.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He has a new GF now, a beautiful Italian co-driver Maddalena Mureddu

I dont think we need to worry about Hayden now...

https://i.imgur.com/yZFQXSG.jpg

[mknight]

If you are capable of winning events you are capable of winning titles. What you're talking about is something other than capability.

Nope. If you risk a lot to win one event out of 10 (and crash in the others) it means you are capable of winning events, but you are clearly incapable of winning titles.

[rs7]

I dont think we need to worry about Hayden now...

https://i.imgur.com/yZFQXSG.jpg

Not so long ago Hayden had a different girlfriend. Maybe those big changes in personal life have something to do with the low he is been having. If you are broken inside it is really difficult to be at your best elsewhere. But looks that things are going better now :) Hope Paddon gets his mojo back soon :)

[er88]

If I was in Seb's position with nothing to prove to anyone, id go back to Citroen. To win 3 drivers titles with 3 different manufacturers would be incredible, and he'd be doing it back at the French team who did give him is chance in rallying after all. If he goes there and doesn't perform well, he'll most likely have the car to blame and everyone will realise that. He won't get as much € at Citroen as he would've at Toyota or Hyundai, but he'd probably get a fair few millions more than staying at Msport. Could even insert a break clause in his contract where after a year he can leave if certain results can't be achieved with the C3, and in 2019 Hyundai will more than likely be ready to offer him anything he wants... ;)

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[ESTR]

I know this is off topic but Volkswagen motorsport are going Pikes Peak and with electricity...

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/vw-to-demonstrates-its-electric-future-in-2018-pikes-peak-race/

I hope that they will not close program after spending too much... hahah joke

[Mintexmemory]

My guess is Conrad Rautenbach

Never forgotten (or is it remembered?) by those who saw him in action (and I use the word advisedly). Meanwhile what about Atko?

[Mintexmemory]

Hope Paddon gets his mojo back soon :) ....and that his competitive abilities also re-surface!

[MartijnS]

Meanwhile what about Atko?

Driving Global Rallycross in the US with Subaru.

[Rallyper]

Never forgotten (or is it remembered?) by those who saw him in action (and I use the word advisedly). Meanwhile what about Atko?

Remember his crash on Myhinpää (was it 2010?) heard it from distance and looked at the wreck very close, as he was still at the scene.

[rhm]

Remember his crash on Myhinpää (was it 2010?) heard it from distance and looked at the wreck very close, as he was still at the scene.

The Monaco crash kind of summed it all up


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[spiderem]

interesting (or worrying) position for Ogier now. Toyota and Hyundai are closed. M-Sport have always been clear that they don't have the cash to keep him, and Citroen is now cutting costs and after all looks like they don't have the cash to pay him (or meet his expectations).
So maybe Ogier won't be the biggest salary next year, not sure how his ego will cope...

[AnttiL]

interesting (or worrying) position for Ogier now. Toyota and Hyundai are closed. M-Sport have always been clear that they don't have the cash to keep him, and Citroen is now cutting costs and after all looks like they don't have the cash to pay him (or meet his expectations).
So maybe Ogier won't be the biggest salary next year, not sure how his ego will cope...

And thus it's speculated that he's retiring rallying...I'm currently believing that he gets the budget for M-Sport, now that Tänak's gone and there was some hints of M-Sport getting more factory backing for next year.

[racerx1979]

I think he is staying at M-Sport. A lot of interviews, small clips featuring Seb recently. Almost seems like a marketing push to me and not someone who is leaving a team or retiring.

[AnttiL]

Mads will not compete in Australia and will use the rest of the year to finalise his plans for 2018. There is more than one alternative, but nothing is decided yet
-It really means that I have nothing that I want to go public with at this stage. We may go for a similar solution as this year with a privately entered team, or maybe I will have a more “official” status in a team, Mads Østberg says.

http://www.madsostberg.no/Home/PressArticle/1162

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe 2 car DMACK team?

[AnttiL]

Maybe 2 car DMACK team?

They would drive for their own manufacturer points? Or M-Sport would have two own cars, two DMACK cars and then it would be decided per each rally who gets manufacturer points?

[Duvel]

Maybe 2 car DMACK team?

I think something like that could happen. One D-mack car for Suninen, and than one D-mack/Onebet car for Mads

[Tarmop]

DMack probably wouldn`t be able to score manu. points themselves as they don`t produce the Fiesta, same case like Ostberg. Don`t know if they have the resources to pay for 2 WRC.

[AnttiL]

DMack probably wouldn`t be able to score manu. points themselves as they don`t produce the Fiesta, same case like Ostberg. Don`t know if they have the resources to pay for 2 WRC.

Last year they scored their own points. This year Elfyn has been driving with DMack tyres and sponsorship, but scoring points for M-Sport. If they had two cars, how would that work out? Did the rules change and you cannot have satellite teams anymore?

[ESTR]

And I was sure he will leave.

[Mintexmemory]

And I was sure he will leave.

I was equally sure he wouldn't - both Hyundai and Toyota have shown in different ways this season that they are nowhere near VW in preparation and reliability of design. Citroen may be getting better but they really would have had to make a number of changes they probably couldn't stomach to get Ogier to return. He is the mainman and loved at M-Sport and now he has time to develop the fiesta more to his liking.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

My guess is Ogier will stay and M-Sport will centre on him for the 2018 Driver's title.

They wont worry about the Manu's after winning this year.

[Fitz]

I'd say the respect is mutual.
When he went to the factory he made a point of introducing himself to everyone, cleaners included that took longer than was planned.
He's seen as a gentleman & maybe there's just something about a smaller group of people that'll come on over their Xmas hols to make changes to his car because of who he is & what he's done to this team. There's not a lot of work in that corner of Cumbria.

They've had everything they could want as shown by the recent two day test in Wales. After the tank comment I've never heard a bad word said.

But look at M-Sport. They've so much going on in their racing series that they compete in across the world & of course their rallying side.

Is it like a family-I'd guess so & is there a lot of extra time away from home doing PR ? I doubt it.

Would you step out of the championship winning team in any other form ?

No & the sensible choice is another two years there, developing the car more to his style & long may the dream continue.

[Zeakiwi]

I know this is off topic but Volkswagen motorsport are going Pikes Peak and with electricity...

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/vw-to-demonstrates-its-electric-future-in-2018-pikes-peak-race/

I hope that they will not close program after spending too much... hahah joke

I would expect VW to use Romain Dumas as the driver for the VW Pikes Peak Electric.
Any chance VW might build two cars and use R Millen as well who has driven electric up Pikes Peak before?

[ESTR]

They wont worry about the Manu's after winning this year.

And why they won't worry? Sure they will if they have the chance.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And why they won't worry? Sure they will if they have the chance.

Because if they can keep Ogier they wont be able to afford another top driver, so their Championship chances will be low.

[Oliverk]

Because if they can keep Ogier they wont be able to afford another top driver, so their Championship chances will be low.

Tänak drove for free. I imagine there is loads of driver who would drive for free. Even Slowberg.

[ESTR]

Because if they can keep Ogier they wont be able to afford another top driver, so their Championship chances will be low.

They have Evans and he have some good results this year: 6, 6, 9, 2, 6, 8, 2, 6, 7 (with DMACK tyres). And 2 more round to come. I'm sure he will score some good scores, now with Ott gone he is obvious 2nd driver in the team so he would get Michelin rubber and be maybe even better next year.

All will be different if Ogi will left, then they are screwed...



They are not driving for free, they still have payed a lot more in one year than most of you guys will ever get payed in lifetime... It's just not as high as Ogier like 10 millions per year...

[AnttiL]

They are not driving for free
In a factory team such as Toyota, Hyundai or Citroen, the factory is paying for your racing expenses and your salary. In M-Sport, there's no factory paying the bills and the funding is not so straightforward. Most M-Sport drivers have external sponsors and backers to cover the expenses and to get some salary as well. It's been said that Tänak didn't get salary from M-Sport until this season and that Evans's racing expenses are covered by DMack sponsorship and his salary comes mainly from Red Bull sponsorship. If you look at Suninen's car, there's a lot of sponsor decals. And it's been said that Camilli has private backers to support his career. However, it could be that Evans is in the same position at M-Sport as Tänak was this year, driving without the support of external sponsors.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tony Simpson presenter on Absolute Rally saying he has it on good authority that Ogier IS staying at M-Sport for 2018.

[Andre Oliveira]

Nothing real surprisingly ;)

[EstWRC]

well, he has no other option really, has he? it is either m-sport or to retire. It seems to me the other teams didnt really try their best to get him or just didnt were interested. i still dont get it at all.

Are his demands so high? i mean salary wise.

Quite ironic, you are a five time champion and you only have these options.

[ESTR]

2019 they will probably fighting for him. And others will just wait where he will finish.

[Eli]

So effectively Citroën are done trying to get Ogier??

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[ESTR]

Look what they are doing. I think that he is not interested either going there.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke's comments on Citroen's lack of local prep for GB tells a lot... the money isnt there.

[Eli]

Meeke's comments on Citroen's lack of local prep for GB tells a lot... the money isnt there.So does this mean the end of the road for Citroën and we'll see them out 'till 2019 do you think?

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[ESTR]

Meeke's comments on Citroen's lack of local prep for GB tells a lot... the money isnt there.

And keep getting that Qassimi behind the wheel, OK he is providing a lot of money but if they want a real results than they must rethink again. He is competing with himself or with wrc 3 drivers... with 2017 car. With many years in wrc he was never, isn't and will never probably be on pace with others.

[ESTR]

So does this mean the end of the road for Citroën and we'll see them out 'till 2019 do you think?

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I think that this will depend on 2018 season. If they will be that bad like this year it can happen.

Poor Breen...

[Eli]

I think that this will depend on 2018 season. If they will be that bad like this year it can happen.

Poor Breen...Shame really... And yes, I will feel sorry for Breen.

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[Myrvold]

And keep getting that Qassimi behind the wheel, OK he is providing a lot of money but if they want a real results than they must rethink again. He is competing with himself or with wrc 3 drivers... with 2017 car. With many years in wrc he was never, isn't and will never probably be on pace with others.

I'd rather have Al Qassimi full time in a 3rd car, instead of 0 Citroëns.

[Mintexmemory]

I'd rather have Al Qassimi full time in a 3rd car, instead of 0 Citroëns.

Agreed - who else thinks that Kris M doesn't have a contract for next year and knows he isn't getting one. Or is the outspokeness over resources and preparation, proof he feels indispensable? My guess is the former. Who would be with Breen as part of a 2 car team, surely not Loeb!

[AnttiL]

well, he has no other option really, has he? it is either m-sport or to retire. It seems to me the other teams didnt really try their best to get him or just didnt were interested. i still dont get it at all.

Are his demands so high? i mean salary wise.

Quite ironic, you are a five time champion and you only have these options.

Probably his demands for a development budget more than salary

[AnttiL]

Agreed - who else thinks that Kris M doesn't have a contract for next year and knows he isn't getting one.

He does have a contract for next year. It's a different thing if they put him out of that contract. In that case, he could just take his Citroen salary to Malcolm's shop?

[wrc2017]

wrong
Agreed - who else thinks that Kris M doesn't have a contract for next year and knows he isn't getting one. Or is the outspokeness over resources and preparation, proof he feels indispensable? My guess is the former. Who would be with Breen as part of a 2 car team, surely not Loeb!

[AnttiL]

#Tyre (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Tyre?src=hash) info: all Michelin @WRC (https://twitter.com/wrc) Drivers with 5 Michelin LTX Force S5 #WRGB (https://twitter.com/hashtag/WRGB?src=hash) #WRC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/WRC?src=hash)

re-check which thread you are posting in ;)

[Mintexmemory]

wrong

C'mon then o wise one, which part and why?

[ESTR]

Agreed - who else thinks that Kris M doesn't have a contract for next year and knows he isn't getting one. Or is the outspokeness over resources and preparation, proof he feels indispensable? My guess is the former. Who would be with Breen as part of a 2 car team, surely not Loeb!

For 2018 Kris has #1 car, Breen #2..
Except if Ogier still sign with them, then all will move down: Kris #2, Breen/Lefebvre/Qassimi/Loeb #3

Biggest mistery is M-Sport. These drivers are in the game, but probably only 3 cars, maybe 4, I'm not sure:
-Elfyn Evans
-Sebastien Ogier
-Teemu Suninen
-Mads Ostberg
-Pontus Tidemand
-Eric Camilli
...and maybe Kalle Rovanperra

[Mintexmemory]

He does have a contract for next year. It's a different thing if they put him out of that contract. In that case, he could just take his Citroen salary to Malcolm's shop?

Thanks for that info - as you say they could just pay him and not spend anything else. Maybe that's what he suspects, he's certainly not toeing the party line anymore.

[er88]

Agreed - who else thinks that Kris M doesn't have a contract for next year and knows he isn't getting one. Or is the outspokeness over resources and preparation, proof he feels indispensable? My guess is the former. Who would be with Breen as part of a 2 car team, surely not Loeb!Meeke is definitely at Citroen next year. He knows he's safe too

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[KKS]

re-check which thread you are posting in ;)
Oh.... busy, sleepy morning for me %)