Thoughts on Kris Meeke's Recent Performances?

[theImpossibleJ]

Having a few offs in his recent performances, it's clear Meeke's not at 100%...thoughts? Confidence? Car? Both? None of the above?
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[macebig]

I think he is overpushing.The C3 isn't there, so he is trying to compensate that by taking risks.And we know that there are so many risks you can get away.Probably it goes back to Colin's passing.If McRae was still here, Meeke would have someone to advice and calm him down when needed.Without his mentor, Kris is driving by instinct.He needs to relax and drive into his safe rythm.Go safely and bring the car home, no matter the place.

[BigWorm]

Same old, same old. He's either a pace setter or a car wrecker, the latter more often, has been like that his Citroën career and it will continue to be.

[steve.mandzij]

Unacceptable, really. I love the guy, and he's undoubtedly quick, but he's crashed in every rally of the year sans Corsica. He has no reason to push so hard anymore. The championship is lost.

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[stefanvv]

Probably lot can be dig from his word in Sweden - "I can't drive this ****". It can be also his problem not to bring the car he wants. Though it seemed quite good last year's tests?!? I don't really know, we can only guess.

[mknight]

It's just him. He has been like that since... forever.

- starting bad doesn't certainly help
- the car had setup issues in Sweden
- Matton doesn't help either, when he actually encourages him to just go for rally wins.

But yeah he crashed 6 times in 6 rallies. (In mexico it didn't cost anything in the end, but could have been huge crash. Twice in Argentina, so only Corsica without crash). The body language in Portugal was terrible since before stage 1, after the crash he was downright pissed all the time. Sure if it was 2-3 stages, but this was basically whole 2 days, not very professional.

I really don't get how can Citroen bosses (above Matton) put up with this. Their main driver crashes all the time and is pissed. Their french driver has now been slowest WRC in basically every single stage.. and also crashed in every single rally with C3.

Some change in that team is needed. If not driver change then certainly attitude/strategy/preparation.

EDIT: And no C3 seems just fine. Maybe not as fast as Hyundai but at least on level with Toyota. Only by looking at Breen's times.

[steve.mandzij]

It's just him. He has been like that since... forever.

- starting bad doesn't certainly help
- the car had setup issues in Sweden
- Matton doesn't help either, when he actually encourages him to just go for rally wins.

But yeah he crashed 6 times in 6 rallies. (In mexico it didn't cost anything in the end, but could have been huge crash. Twice in Argentina, so only Corsica without crash). The body language in Portugal was terrible since before stage 1, after the crash he was downright pissed all the time. Sure if it was 2-3 stages, but this was basically whole 2 days, not very professional.

I really don't get how can Citroen bosses (above Matton) put up with this. Their main driver crashes all the time and is pissed. Their french driver has now been slowest WRC in basically every single stage.. and also crashed in every single rally with C3.

Some change in that team is needed. If not driver change then certainly attitude/strategy/preparation.

EDIT: And no C3 seems just fine. Maybe not as fast as Hyundai but at least on level with Toyota. Only by looking at Breen's times.
Maybe they put Al Qassimi in a C3 so as to give Lefebvre a break as the worst WRC :p

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[Eli]

It's just him. He has been like that since... forever.

- starting bad doesn't certainly help
- the car had setup issues in Sweden
- Matton doesn't help either, when he actually encourages him to just go for rally wins.

But yeah he crashed 6 times in 6 rallies. (In mexico it didn't cost anything in the end, but could have been huge crash. Twice in Argentina, so only Corsica without crash). The body language in Portugal was terrible since before stage 1, after the crash he was downright pissed all the time. Sure if it was 2-3 stages, but this was basically whole 2 days, not very professional.

I really don't get how can Citroen bosses (above Matton) put up with this. Their main driver crashes all the time and is pissed. Their french driver has now been slowest WRC in basically every single stage.. and also crashed in every single rally with C3.

Some change in that team is needed. If not driver change then certainly attitude/strategy/preparation.

EDIT: And no C3 seems just fine. Maybe not as fast as Hyundai but at least on level with Toyota. Only by looking at Breen's times.

Just what I wanted to say, I mean, Meeke & Lefebvre clearly have a problem with the car, if you look at Breen back on Friday he was quite happy with the car, he even set some fast times, they really need to get their head straight & their cars sorted or they will find themselves without anything to drive come the end of 2018.

[seb_sh]

I think the Sweden setup problem was a fluke, it's the usual problem that if he's not first he pushes too much and takes too much risks and goes off. If it is indeed the car it's kind of sad since he developed it.

[dimviii]

Linda Jackson‏

Pleased with the performance @rallydeportugal, guys! Keep working hard, I know I can count on you to do even better in Sardinia #WRC

[EightGear]

Linda Jackson‏

Pleased with the performance @rallydeportugal, guys! Keep working hard, I know I can count on you to do even better in Sardinia #WRC
'Even better?'

The bar has clearly been set very low.

[markf8691]

I like Kris especially as I'm from Northern Ireland however I agree with this....


Same old, same old. He's either a pace setter or a car wrecker, the latter more often, has been like that his Citroën career and it will continue to be.

[BigWorm]

Question to you guys: If Meeke's current contract would have been a 2+1, would you exercise the extra year for 2018?

I'm not sure I would. He wins a rally now and then, but the results inbetween aren't good enough for the manufacturers title. Maybe it's Meeke that Mikkelsen should replace, instead of Lefebvre (with another youngster replacing him).

[mknight]

I would certainly not have Meeke as 1st driver. As a "second" out of 3 competitive drivers he would have less pressure and maybe even get more consistent.... or want to beat the first driver at all costs and crash even more, then again crashing even more is not really possible atm.

To be fair to Lefebvre most of last year he was pretty much exactly as fast as Breen. This year nothing works for him. He could clearly use some break/re-set, for example in R5. Problem is that PSA doesn't have an R5 that is allround competetive vs Fabia/Fiesta.

[theImpossibleJ]

It's just him. He has been like that since... forever.

- starting bad doesn't certainly help
- the car had setup issues in Sweden
- Matton doesn't help either, when he actually encourages him to just go for rally wins.

But yeah he crashed 6 times in 6 rallies. (In mexico it didn't cost anything in the end, but could have been huge crash. Twice in Argentina, so only Corsica without crash). The body language in Portugal was terrible since before stage 1, after the crash he was downright pissed all the time. Sure if it was 2-3 stages, but this was basically whole 2 days, not very professional.

I really don't get how can Citroen bosses (above Matton) put up with this. Their main driver crashes all the time and is pissed. Their french driver has now been slowest WRC in basically every single stage.. and also crashed in every single rally with C3.

Some change in that team is needed. If not driver change then certainly attitude/strategy/preparation.

EDIT: And no C3 seems just fine. Maybe not as fast as Hyundai but at least on level with Toyota. Only by looking at Breen's times.
Excellent breakdown...and I do have to agree with the concerns in attitude. I think it's bleeding into all the other issues. He'll never get his confidence back as long as he's jaded. And without confidence all his other decisions (i.e. unnecessarily pushing too hard) will be compromised. The car itself is a whole other issue, imo.

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[theImpossibleJ]

'Even better?'

The bar has clearly been set very low.
...ouch, lol

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[steve.mandzij]

I would certainly not have Meeke as 1st driver. As a "second" out of 3 competitive drivers he would have less pressure and maybe even get more consistent.... or want to beat the first driver at all costs and crash even more, then again crashing even more is not really possible atm.

To be fair to Lefebvre most of last year he was pretty much exactly as fast as Breen. This year nothing works for him. He could clearly use some break/re-set, for example in R5. Problem is that PSA doesn't have an R5 that is allround competetive vs Fabia/Fiesta.
Maybe the new Corsa R5?

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[RAS007]

It's just him. He has been like that since... forever.

- starting bad doesn't certainly help
- the car had setup issues in Sweden
- Matton doesn't help either, when he actually encourages him to just go for rally wins.

But yeah he crashed 6 times in 6 rallies. (In mexico it didn't cost anything in the end, but could have been huge crash. Twice in Argentina, so only Corsica without crash). The body language in Portugal was terrible since before stage 1, after the crash he was downright pissed all the time. Sure if it was 2-3 stages, but this was basically whole 2 days, not very professional.

I really don't get how can Citroen bosses (above Matton) put up with this. Their main driver crashes all the time and is pissed. Their french driver has now been slowest WRC in basically every single stage.. and also crashed in every single rally with C3.

Some change in that team is needed. If not driver change then certainly attitude/strategy/preparation.

EDIT: And no C3 seems just fine. Maybe not as fast as Hyundai but at least on level with Toyota. Only by looking at Breen's times.

Citroen now reminds me of Mitsubishi back in the day; entire team built around one driver. Driver leaves, everything falls apart.

[N.O.T]

recent performances ?? whats different from his previous ones ??

lol

[wrc2017]

It's just him. He has been like that since... forever.

- starting bad doesn't certainly help
- the car had setup issues in Sweden
- Matton doesn't help either, when he actually encourages him to just go for rally wins.

But yeah he crashed 6 times in 6 rallies. (In mexico it didn't cost anything in the end, but could have been huge crash. Twice in Argentina, so only Corsica without crash). The body language in Portugal was terrible since before stage 1, after the crash he was downright pissed all the time. Sure if it was 2-3 stages, but this was basically whole 2 days, not very professional.

I really don't get how can Citroen bosses (above Matton) put up with this. Their main driver crashes all the time and is pissed. Their french driver has now been slowest WRC in basically every single stage.. and also crashed in every single rally with C3.

Some change in that team is needed. If not driver change then certainly attitude/strategy/preparation.

EDIT: And no C3 seems just fine. Maybe not as fast as Hyundai but at least on level with Toyota. Only by looking at Breen's times.

Are you f***king serious? C3 has a major inherint problem... its designed by touring car engineers. Breen is happy with 5th's... If Meeke was finishing 5th in every rally everyone would be disappionted.

#1 Monte - Car setup too low - team admits they didnt test in conditions like the rally, car too low, car running on sump guard every cut.
#2 Sweden - transmission errors on all cars
#3 Mexico - Win
#4 Corsica - The C3 'touring car' was leading.. and broke
#5 Agentina - The touring car dampers put him off the road
#6 Portugal - Mistake by Meeke. Day 1 Meeke leading the small mistake, both Citroen with seconds of lead. Day 2 surface change.. both cars lose over 1m30 to Ogier.

The best thing to happen is Mikkelson in the car... now we will begin to see where the car really is. Mikkelson and Meeke in Finland will be a good gauge.. hopefully by then Mikkelson will have 2/3 event in the car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Say what you like about the car but Meeke himself is more the issue for me. Since he got a WRC chance he's been the classic 'win it or bin it' driver and I cant see him changing now.

Consistency and speed need to go together and his accidents just destroy his confidence and then he tries too hard or goes too slow and loses concentration.

[er88]

He won't be happy with himself and he's underperformed, nobody can deny that. However the championship was lost after Corsica, and after that car error they've purely been targeting wins. That's the instruction from the team and all Meeke wants to do himself.

The first two events were right offs from the team due to set up and testing mistakes, but he then won in Mexico.
In Corsica that C3 looked at home on the tarmac (surprise surprise), and he was in control out in front and beating Ogier and Neuville on pure pace on tarmac. When has that ever happened to Seb?
In Argentina he was closest to evans and running in second before both C3s had massive issues with the same compression. That also has to be classed as a mistake by Meeke too though, as I read that he maybe approached it too fast? However Citroen as a team have acknowledged they have big suspension issues, and have confirmed they have an update coming later in the year to fix the "problems".
Again in Portugal, Meeke was on the pace and either Meeke or Paddon were about to take the lead of the rally, but a really stupid error ended his chances. That mistake, along with his 2nd crash in Argentina were needless.

So i personally don't think we need to go too overboard about Meeke just yet. He's always been a very fast driver prone to errors, but there have been other mitigating circumstances this year on top of his own performance. Despite that, the margins are still very small and Meeke more than likely would've been the first driver to win two events this year - if his engine didn't blow up in Corsica. The reason why i feel there's a huge reaction to his low pts tally is because too many people expected way too much from him and the returning Citroen. I mean, he was favourite for the championship with the bookies ffs. That's where the money was going....

The question now is; does Meeke force himself to drive at 95% and take a few 3rd and 4th places like Sordo and Tanak have been doing this season? Or seeing that he has nothing to lose, will he keep driving at 100% looking for wins (which is what Citreon's sole objective is for this year)? Maybe having Andreas as a team mate now will push him to up his game....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe he/they were favourites after they took the 2016 WRC off to prepare and test their 2017 car.

Plus the C3 was 'built-around' Meeke and his engineering background was said to be key.

Neither of them has any excuse.

[AnttiL]

The question now is; does Meeke force himself to drive at 95% and take a few 3rd and 4th places like Sordo and Tanak have been doing this season?

Come on, Tänak has been going 100% all season, but he's had his technical problems and small mistakes taking good positions away. And Sordo, I don't think he ever had a winning pace but he rarely makes a mistake and thus gets decent results. Actually, Breen is becoming the new Sordo.

[EstWRC]

Wrong. Tänak has said that he hasn't yet been fully on this year apart some stages maybe. Sweden day 2 for example and monte's first stages and last one of course. He said that he was actually surprised that he won the fafe power stage in Portugal because he didn't give everything there.

[WUff1]

Meeke will feel even more pressure now that Mikkelsen is in. And pressure for Meeke means more prone to errors.

[Rally Power]

The question now is; does Meeke force himself to drive at 95% and take a few 3rd and 4th places like Sordo and Tanak have been doing this season? Or seeing that he has nothing to lose, will he keep driving at 100% looking for wins (which is what Citreon's sole objective is for this year)? Maybe having Andreas as a team mate now will push him to up his game....

I regret to say that even at 95% he crashes…like in Portugal. It’s true he managed to lead during first day, but he didn’t look the usual flat out Meeke. Stages times also indicate that he wasn’t able to take advantage from starting order. I’d love to think that the problem is at the car, but rationally we must believe that Breen isn’t yet at Meeke’s level, so the car surely worth more than P5. Really hoping Meeke manages to sort things out in Italy. He deserves better.

[theImpossibleJ]

recent performances ?? whats different from his previous ones ??

lol
Well, on a long enough timeline....lol

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[Tarmop]

Are you f***king serious? C3 has a major inherint problem... its designed by touring car engineers. Breen is happy with 5th's... If Meeke was finishing 5th in every rally everyone would be disappionted.

#1 Monte - Car setup too low - team admits they didnt test in conditions like the rally, car too low, car running on sump guard every cut.
#2 Sweden - transmission errors on all cars
#3 Mexico - Win
#4 Corsica - The C3 'touring car' was leading.. and broke
#5 Agentina - The touring car dampers put him off the road
#6 Portugal - Mistake by Meeke. Day 1 Meeke leading the small mistake, both Citroen with seconds of lead. Day 2 surface change.. both cars lose over 1m30 to Ogier.

The best thing to happen is Mikkelson in the car... now we will begin to see where the car really is. Mikkelson and Meeke in Finland will be a good gauge.. hopefully by then Mikkelson will have 2/3 event in the car.

#1. Crash in a left-hand corner while carrying too much speed.
#2. Could be setup problems, or trying too hard. + roll on a pre-event testing.
#3. Win, that almost ended in tears and a massive crash.
#4. Was doing really well, until the engine blew, could have been a perfect event, but who knows.
#5. again, 2x crashes, maybe a bit car-related but still...
#6. Mistake

And when you look at the past you can see a similar pattern. Great driver, absolutely capable of winning (an) event(s) but i dont`t think that he could take the championship.

[denkimi]

Since he got a WRC chance he's been the classic 'win it or bin it' driver and I cant see him changing now.

he had that attitude back in 2009 when he was driving in the IRC.

it has been the same issue all the way through his career. just look at the stats at ewrc, he has a DNF percentage of 33%. pretty much double that of most wrc drivers.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/70-kris-meeke/

[seb_sh]

I disagree with the idea that the C3 is a "touring car" built by "touring car engineers". This team built the Xsara, C4 and DS3, I doubt they forgot how to build a rally car in the space of a few years. Not to mention a lot of emphasis was put on their break year and how Meeke was leading the development of the car. So any excuses on this front are weak.

To me it seems that Meeke is in a similar way to Petter Solberg, he can drive fast but doesn't have the best mental attitude. Intentional or not, if he's not fastest he pushes and takes risks and usually it ends in tears. ALL of Meeke's wins have come in favorable road order conditions.

With this approach he will never be world champion because there are enough drivers who are at least as fast, even excluding Ogier, who can put pressure on him and with his attitude he will throw away a lot of points. One of the reasons Ogier won 4 titles was that he accepted when he can't win and even if he was pushing he wasn't going over the limit and accepted a podium. I like the guy but now I kind of doubt he will be WDC. Better chances have Neuville, Tanak or even Latvala.

[Franky]

Maybe Meeke just need a bit different approach from the team boss? Latvala has been quite similar to Meeke, either winning it, binning it or hopelessly somewhere in the mid-field. I still remember the comment Latvala gave after winning in Sweden, where he said that Mäkinen just told him to go and drive. And not to think about anything else.

Latvala has had a pretty consistent season this year. Okay, he is 40 points off Ogier. But he has had only one bad rally point-wise. Latvala is known for his fragility, so something big must have changed since leaving VW.

Over pushing comes from the head of the driver.

[smsgrafica]

so something big must have changed since leaving VW.

He told us himself: Ogier is not in the same team anymore, so he can concentrate on driving his style and not trying to copy Ogier's.

[jparker]

Quite "Franky" I don't understand what Latvala has to do with this discussion. If it helps you alleviate the pain, than OK, otherwise lets keep on focus please.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Quite "Franky" I don't understand what Latvala has to do with this discussion. If it helps you alleviate the pain, than OK, otherwise lets keep on focus please.

Franky is saying Meeke's mentality can be compared to Latvala's, is that so hard for you to understand ... :rolleyes:

[AL14]

I don't think Meeke's problem is mental. I think it's more his drive that leads to errors more easily

[jparker]

Franky is saying Meeke's mentality can be compared to Latvala's, is that so hard for you to understand ... :rolleyes:
Read the post once again smart Ford spamer.

[Franky]

Read the post once again smart Ford spamer.

Read my post again. The first two sentences. If you then still don't understand, I can't help you.

Also please change your attitude.

[Augury]

People need to stop quoting that jparker guy, he's clearly an imbecile.

[jparker]

Read my post again. The first two sentences. If you then still don't understand, I can't help you.

Also please change your attitude.

Your post is full of hate against Latvala MF, don't give me your bul**** now

[olemann]

Kris is a wonderful boy who throws excitement in every race so we need such boys. Some days are good and some not so good, but without Kris some of the excitement will disappear in the top.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Read the post once again smart Ford spamer.

This is a Kris Meeke discussion. No-one mentioned Ford.

And the fact is you're the anti-Ford spammer. That's all you ever do here.

[macebig]

Ok, NRF is ground zero for Kris.He either does well and keeps his seat and career alive or he does badly (~crashes) and we only see him driving Colin's old cars at Rallyshows from then on.No in between.

[wrc2017]

what you expect from him in finland.
Is 5th ok? Because it seems to be enough for Citroen right now.
Ok, NRF is ground zero for Kris.He either does well and keeps his seat and career alive or he does badly (~crashes) and we only see him driving Colin's old cars at Rallyshows from then on.No in between.

[macebig]

Depending on how things go, I think a clean 5th place would be good.

[wrc2017]

Noted. Given he dominated it last year, it would then be a good indication of where the team is with the car.
Depending on how things go, I think a clean 5th place would be good.

[stefanvv]

There are far too many trees in Finland to hit, he should focus on bringing it home, than throwing everything for a win, which wouldn't matter anyway.

[Zeakiwi]

Perhaps Matton could find an old DS3 or an R5 in the shed for Meeke to do a regional rally or two with?

[Mintexmemory]

Suddenly he's the man from Dundriving!

[gorganl2000]

First off, i'd say i really like his style and the passion he brings to rallying. I am a fan of his. There is no doubt he is a fast driver; never a dull moment for sure. For me his personality adds something to WRC. I've really tried to not comment on Kris for the last few events as i preferred to see how things would play out before trying to make any kind of assessment. I've read the comments on here and via the media and i kind of see the different angles and views persons have taken.

With all that said, and personally preferring to see Kris in the WRC at the highest level, i really can't be upset with Matton about giving him a break. Now let's be real, he's a rally driver, that's his profession!! and he's done an awful job of it this year so far---what is it, 8 crashes in 7 rallies? He's cost the team a lot of money in repairs and man hours, which even if you had the budget for, it's still money that is being wasted ---this money could be reallocated to developing the car over the year, getting personnel to improve the car, etc.

For the average person, the bottom line is, if you don't do your job, then there are consequences --- reprimand, temporary lay-off, fired,...so Kris should be subject to the same. Who wants an employee that is not pulling their weight/under-performing constantly? Something must be done different to try to elicit a different outcome at some point.

As a public, we are not privy to every detail concerning the car's testing/development last year, but Kris seemed to be heavily involved in the testing and some have indicated the car was built around his driving style...so if this is potentially the case, and he did seem happy about it last year, why then all of a sudden the car is now "crap". It is obvious the car has issues, but somehow it can't be total crap if it has won a WRC rally and stages. Again, the car needs work as some have pointed to suspension, geometry, etc.

I think it would be wise to use Andreas, as well as draw on the vast experience of Carlos, Loeb (if at all possible, as he has won them countless titles and developed winning cars before) Gronholm, Mikko, Sarrazin and other such quality developmental drivers and engineers to highlight the main issues and try to rectify them---in my opinion such persons should have been asked from the very beginning, but that's another story. Well now, maybe the team can see 2017 as a testing and development year. Pointing fingers at each other is certainly not going to fix the problems. I'm optimistic that the car can be fixed and be an effective weapon in WRC with good drivers behind the wheel.

Another concern i had with Kris was what seemed like his inability to dial it back a notch and bring the car home safely for points after a rough few events, a trait exhibited by the WDCs Ogier this year and Loeb in the past. Even in the car's current state, i suspect Kris is of a high enough caliber to maybe land in the top 5 on most events on a lesser pace, especially given the kind of attrition that occurs in some rallies. If he did that, may be he and his team would still haul some decent points in both championships.

[janvanvurpa]

People need to stop quoting that jparker guy, he's clearly an imbecile.

I agree..Seems angry and touchy...Sounds like a Subaru fan-boi.. Wonder if he's ever done a rally ever?

[OldF]

Biased or not?

https://www.facebook.com/pg/voiceofrally/posts/

“My Thoughts on Meeke and Citroen
Is it fair to say Citroen Racing are in a bit of a crisis? That was the opening line from my post Portugal column and if it wasn’t exactly a crisis then, it most certainly is a crisis now. And on the face of it, the panic buttons have been well and truly pressed. Dropping Kris Meeke for Poland and heaping all the blame for a less than satisfactory season so far at the door of one person is a bizarre response to what is clearly a collective problem.
It’s very easy to look at the stats and say that Meeke has undelivered so far. But stats in isolation are no basis for making or justifying decisions. The only mistakes that can fairly be attributed to Meeke were in Monte Carlo and Portugal. In Sweden the car was undriveable, Argentina unpredictable, Corsica unreliable and in Sardinia the accident unexplainable!
There is very clearly something amiss with the 2017 C3WRC and that is not the sole responsibility of one man.
You only have to look at the performances of Breen and Mikkelsen in Sardinia to realise that all is far from perfect with the car’s performance. Mikkelsen, a man who has won three rallies and is considered one of the very best drivers in the world finished a country mile behind the winner. Eight minutes down on Tanak’s time with only minor issues speaks volumes. And I really don't buy this “I’m taking my time learning the car” line. Young Lappi, with only one rally at the top level and immeasurably less experience than Mikkelsen sets fastest times in six stages and blew the Cirtroens away. Mikkelsen was and still is a world class, rally winning driver - so explain that one with your stats!
Likewise, Breen once again reported the car behaving strangely and in the Monte Lerno stage was over a minute down on the fastest time. There is a lot of evidence that sadly points towards more fundamental issues within the team other than just the underperformance of one driver.
Meeke would appear to be the sacrificial lamb. Publicly chastised and humiliated, he is being told effectively to take one for the team. All bosses deal with crisis situations in different ways. But i prefer the approach of Monsieur Nandan. When Neuville, his highly paid plainly unhappy number one driver was failing consistently to deliver the goods, Nandan stood by him. He gave him time, and worked through the problems with the driver and the car. Look at the result now - the only driver capable of seriously challenging Ogier. And is there any talk of Nandan dropping Paddon after his difficult start to the season? Of course not.
And finally, what the hell is wrong with us Brits? We have a world class driver who can and will win many more rallies but we crucify him with an almost vengeful joy when things aren't going his way. Sadly there’s a transparently fragile shallowness to the “support” of some within the UK rallying community. I have to say, it really does make me very angry, but maybe more than that, very sad.”

[AnttiL]

Keith Oswin's reply


Comparisons are inevitably drawn between Meeke and McRae so I'll share one story from my time at Autosport. After McRae had needlessly wrecked another Impreza in Argentina 1994, David Richards called me on the Monday morning and asked me to write a story questioning McRae's future in the team. I was pretty shocked but DR explained that Colin simply didn't seem to be getting the message and so, maybe, if the story was made public, the penny might drop. History shows that McRae DID get the message and go on to become World Champion next year. I've no idea how much (if indeed any) of that was down to the story but, in light of Citroen's decision, I can't help wondering if this might not be an inspired move by Yves Matton and that, in a few month's time, people might look back and see this as a turning point in Meeke's career...

[seb_sh]

https://www.facebook.com/pg/voiceofrally/posts/

”When Neuville, his highly paid plainly unhappy number one driver was failing consistently to deliver the goods, Nandan stood by him. He gave him time, and worked through the problems with the driver and the car.”[/I]

Nandan demoted Neuville and there seemed to be pressure on him to get his act together. I think there was also a quote after his Monte and Sweden mistakes that such a performance is not ok (but I may be wrong). Sure he didn't drop him completely but I don't think this comparison is entirely correct. That's not to say I think Matton managed the situation well but we'll see.

Now that everyone has pretty much agreed that the Citroen car is very sensitive to setup and conditions it will be interesting to see if it can be fixed with setup or there is some fundamental flaw. Remember Meeke did almost all of the development driving so only he and/or the engineers can be blamed for this.

[jparker]

Do you guys believe Meeke had the freedome to drive the way he likes, or he was asked to obey orders, and he didn't?
I think this is a key question in order to determine whether we have to blame him or not.

[Rally Power]

Keith Oswin's reply
Comparisons are inevitably drawn between Meeke and McRae so I'll share one story from my time at Autosport. After McRae had needlessly wrecked another Impreza in Argentina 1994, David Richards called me on the Monday morning and asked me to write a story questioning McRae's future in the team. I was pretty shocked but DR explained that Colin simply didn't seem to be getting the message and so, maybe, if the story was made public, the penny might drop. History shows that McRae DID get the message and go on to become World Champion next year. I've no idea how much (if indeed any) of that was down to the story but, in light of Citroen's decision, I can't help wondering if this might not be an inspired move by Yves Matton and that, in a few month's time, people might look back and see this as a turning point in Meeke's career...

Interesting piece. It shows how current brit journos are so short seeing on Meeke’s driving approach. They’re helping him to fall off the cliff, not to avoid it.

[stefanvv]

May be they just see Evans as the next british champion?!?

[wrc2017]

What about Citroens own PR release..."giving Meeke time off to recharge for Finland return where he won last year."

By implication they are implying the want him to do the same this year?

So, maybe Matton and Citroen should make public Meeke objectives for Finland?


Interesting piece. It shows how current brit journos are so short seeing on Meeke’s driving approach. They’re helping him to fall off the cliff, not to avoid it.

[Rally Power]

What about Citroens own PR release..."giving Meeke time off to recharge for Finland return where he won last year."
By implication they are implying the want him to do the same this year?
So, maybe Matton and Citroen should make public Meeke objectives for Finland?

Agree, the team communication (Matton comments included) seems to be as erratic as Meeke's driving.

[wrc2017]

Dont forget the the car either...;)

as erratic as Meeke's driving.

[mknight]

The only mistakes that can fairly be attributed to Meeke were in Monte Carlo and Portugal. In Sweden the car was undriveable, Argentina unpredictable, Corsica unreliable and in Sardinia the accident unexplainable![/I]

Mikkelsen, a man who has won three rallies and is considered one of the very best drivers in the world finished a country mile behind the winner. Eight minutes down on Tanak’s time with only minor issues speaks volumes. And I really don't buy this “I’m taking my time learning the car” line. Young Lappi, with only one rally at the top level and immeasurably less experience than Mikkelsen sets fastest times in six stages and blew the Cirtroens away. Mikkelsen was and still is a world class, rally winning driver - so explain that one with your stats![/I]

He twists a lots of stuff to push his point. I might agree or disagree with this point, but either way I dislike how he tells half-truths or even wrong info to get it across.

Argentina second off is totally Meeke's fault.
Sardinia "unexplainable".... I guess it was aliens then.

Mikkelsen lost 2 mins due to puncture, and some 30-50s due to diff failure and rwd only so which is 30+% of the 8 mins. "Only minor issues". Yes he was very slow everyone agrees that so why the need to twist this.

Lappi... sure he has much less experience than Mikkelsen overall. But Mikkelsen had 1 day with 300 km on different gravel as car experience. Lappi 1 rally and prbly thousands of kms since he has been testing it for at least 6 months. He did extremely well yes, but car experience is incomparable in his favor.


Also this:

Interesting piece. It shows how current brit journos are so short seeing on Meeke’s driving approach. They’re helping him to fall off the cliff, not to avoid it.

[stefanvv]

Lappi... sure he has much less experience than Mikkelsen overall. But Mikkelsen had 1 day with 300 km on different gravel as car experience. Lappi 1 rally and prbly thousands of kms since he has been testing it for at least 6 months. He did extremely well yes, but car experience is incomparable in his favor.

Don't forget Yaris is better car than C3. Generally I also disagree with Clark's "pink" spectacles. If the car is soooo underivable, what did Meeke do whole last year? Taking a few wins for the glory?

[wrc2017]

He twists a lots of stuff to push his point. I might agree or disagree with this point, but either way I dislike how he tells half-truths or even wrong info to get it across.

Argentina second off is totally Meeke's fault.
Sardinia "unexplainable".... I guess it was aliens then.

Mikkelsen lost 2 mins due to puncture, and some 30-50s due to diff failure and rwd only so which is 30+% of the 8 mins. "Only minor issues". Yes he was very slow everyone agrees that so why the need to twist this.

Lappi... sure he has much less experience than Mikkelsen overall. But Mikkelsen had 1 day with 300 km on different gravel as car experience. Lappi 1 rally and prbly thousands of kms since he has been testing it for at least 6 months. He did extremely well yes, but car experience is incomparable in his favor.


Also this:

You look at meeke big high speed off on argentina.. the front to the car was floating left to right immediatly before accident at 200kph... my theory is the rear wing was refitted with wrong pitch after first accident, as the boot was totally missing.. so there was way to much down force on rear.. and light at the front.. it jist didnt turn in. Its not an unreasonable explaination. Just watch it again before making a judgement

[Rally Power]

He twists a lots of stuff to push his point. I might agree or disagree with this point, but either way I dislike how he tells half-truths or even wrong info to get it across.

Yep. He also forgot to mention that during '15 Neuville did some rallys in Hyundai's B team and how harsh Penasse was to him at the time.



You look at meeke big high speed off on argentina.. the front to the car was floating left to right immediatly before accident at 200kph... my theory is the rear wing was refitted with wrong pitch after first accident, as the boot was totally missing.. so there was way to much down force on rear.. and light at the front.. it jist didnt turn in. Its not an unreasonable explaination. Just watch it again before making a judgement

You can be right, but wasn't he needlessly overdriving it, just like on that final stage at Mexico?

[denkimi]

You look at meeke big high speed off on argentina.. the front to the car was floating left to right immediatly before accident at 200kph... my theory is the rear wing was refitted with wrong pitch after first accident, as the boot was totally missing.. so there was way to much down force on rear.. and light at the front.. it jist didnt turn in. Its not an unreasonable explaination. Just watch it again before making a judgement
that doesn't matter. even if the car was on 3 wheels and burning, he shouldn't crash it.

otherwise, whats next? i crashed because my tyres where worn? i crashed because the engineers didn't mount a second spoiler?
you can only drive as fast as the cars allows it, going faster and crashing out is the drivers fault.

yes, there is a serious problem with the car that makes it do strange unpredictable things, but they know that so its actually not unpredictable.
if you know that you will likely lose control if you go flatout over a certain jump, than you can just choose to back off a little instead of trying it and crashing every second time.

[Norm75]

I think he meant loss of expected aero at high speed caused the off.

Think about it like Mercedes gt1 car at Le Mans in 1999, it can happen.
Whether or not it was in this case though is difficult to say, I thought it was driver error.

[wrc2017]

Amazing how some keyboards warriors seem to have all the answers, but couldnt get within 10s per km of any of these top guys.. and have no appreciation what its like to drive a 30km stage to within tenths of a second of each other. On a 30 min stage... if you think you can throttle back 1 percent...is 18seconds..2 percent is 36s... thats how tight it is. Its a total sprint. Come off 1% or your not comfortable with your car.... your an also ran. these guys have bigger balls than you could ever dream off.

[seb_sh]

The point is Clark is cherry picking facts in his analysis to support his point. The most blatant for me is forgetting Neuville got demoted and criticised then and even this year after his crashes. In the end Breen drove less rallies than Meeke and is ahead of him in the standings so one can argue something IS NOT working there. Also don't forget in Mexico, Meeke was lucky to escape from that car park. It could be much worse.

I think there is no single reason Citroen is in the state that it is, it's probably several causes:
- mismanagement of testing programme (relying on just Meeke)
- "smart" engineers who made a fast but undriveable car
- "bin it or win it" Meeke isn't as good as development as people say
- budget issues
- bad choices regarding drivers (not getting an ex VW driver, giving Lefebvre too much too fast)
- chaos within the team (contradictory statements and expectations)

[seb_sh]

Amazing how some keyboards warriors seem to have all the answers, but couldnt get within 10s per km of any of these top guys.. and have no appreciation what its like to drive a 30km stage to within tenths of a second of each other. On a 30 min stage... if you think you can throttle back 1 percent...is 18seconds..2 percent is 36s... thats how tight it is. Its a total sprint. Come off 1% or your not comfortable with your car.... your an also ran. these guys have bigger balls than you could ever dream off.

so? I don't have to be a world champion to look and see some drivers are not crashing and one is crashing twice per rally. Be it his fault or the car, that's too much.

[electroliquid]

Amazing how some keyboards warriors seem to have all the answers, but couldnt get within 10s per km of any of these top guys.. and have no appreciation what its like to drive a 30km stage to within tenths of a second of each other. On a 30 min stage... if you think you can throttle back 1 percent...is 18seconds..2 percent is 36s... thats how tight it is. Its a total sprint. Come off 1% or your not comfortable with your car.... your an also ran. these guys have bigger balls than you could ever dream off.

Basically it's true, but big balls aren't enough - you still need a brain

[stefanvv]

On a 30 min stage... if you think you can throttle back 1 percent...is 18seconds..2 percent is 36s...

So what? Ogier is doing exactly this when not comfortable with the car, which has been the most rallys '17. The only full attack mode I think was in Portugal, and boy he did.
BTW 30 min. stages are rare in the season, but You must make sure to finish those.

[N.O.T]

So what? Ogier is doing exactly this when not comfortable with the car, which has been the most rallys '17. The only full attack mode I think was in Portugal, and boy he did.
BTW 30 min. stages are rare in the season, but You must make sure to finish those.

so in full attack mode ogier is still slower than tanak....

[stefanvv]

I'm counting 5*5 1st & 2nd for Ogier, only 3*1 1st & 2nd for Tanak, that's enough math for me.

But this thread is for Meeke anyway.

[Rally Power]

Amazing how some keyboards warriors seem to have all the answers, but couldnt get within 10s per km of any of these top guys..

Chill out mate. Nobody disrespected Meeke, so there’s no need to start using that kind of immature and insulting arguments.

[wrc2017]

Chill out mate. Nobody disrespected Meeke, so there’s no need to start using that kind of immature and insulting arguments.

No argument. Just tell me what part of my statement was wrong.

[gorganl2000]

Amazing how some keyboards warriors seem to have all the answers, but couldnt get within 10s per km of any of these top guys.. and have no appreciation what its like to drive a 30km stage to within tenths of a second of each other. On a 30 min stage... if you think you can throttle back 1 percent...is 18seconds..2 percent is 36s... thats how tight it is. Its a total sprint. Come off 1% or your not comfortable with your car.... your an also ran. these guys have bigger balls than you could ever dream off.

i can respect your opinion on this matter....we are all entitled to our views...sometimes we agree, and other times not so much
however, i don't think its nothing personal against Meeke, as many seem to generally like the guy (he seems like an easy going kind of person who is very passionate about rally...and he's definitely fast... consistency is questionable). We are not supposed to get within 10s per km of him, that's not our job, but its certainly part of his with regards to his competition. After all, that why he's a professional rally driver and many of us are not, we are more a forum of people who enjoy rallying (granted some members seem to have driven at various levels). Its not solely about the level of his bravery behind the wheel, but also his ability to evaluate the situation and come up with some reasonable plan of action as required. The latter is what is in question at the moment and causing all the stir. As i mentioned before, 8 crashes in 7 rallies is not good regardless of how you look at it---even as a Meeke fan

[wia5958]

Although meeke is quite crash prone there have been a few incidents this year that may have been his fault they may have been the cars. We will never know. But i reckon its a combination of meeke and the car in most cases. Going on the comments of breen/mikkleson the car can be great on one stage terrible on the next. So if in a rally meeke has done say 3 stages and is feeling comfortable and relaxed in the car. Then all of a sudden these handling issues arise in the 4th stage totally unexpected to u. What do u do. Some would back of and some like meeke would try to drive through it. For me its to close of a margin to blame either the car or the driver. But the outcome has been the same to often unfortunatly

[Norm75]

Although meeke is quite crash prone there have been a few incidents this year that may have been his fault they may have been the cars. We will never know. But i reckon its a combination of meeke and the car in most cases. Going on the comments of breen/mikkleson the car can be great on one stage terrible on the next. So if in a rally meeke has done say 3 stages and is feeling comfortable and relaxed in the car. Then all of a sudden these handling issues arise in the 4th stage totally unexpected to u. What do u do. Some would back of and some like meeke would try to drive through it. For me its to close of a margin to blame either the car or the driver. But the outcome has been the same to often unfortunatlyThis is pretty much how I see it.
I read an article from a Belfast newspaper that states Meeke is "not unhappy" about being dropped for Poland. It also says when asked why he hasn't dialled it back and driven within the cars limits, he has been told to go out and win rallies, so that is exactly what he has been trying to do.

[stefanvv]

try 1 time, try 2 times, try more times, the result is always the same. You can't win rallies like this.

[wrc2017]

try 1 time, try 2 times, try more times, the result is always the same. You can't win rallies like this.

mexico, corsica, leading every rally since?

[AnttiL]

leading every rally since?

You have to finish a rally to score points

It's not like he's a young driver who has to prove he has the speed but is yet to build up the consistency