Hyundai WRT

[WRCStan]

I'm surprised how many here wants to see Team orders ...

I'm surprised how many see team orders. It was standard rally management to hold positions 1-2-3, not an injustice to Tanak to 'hold second position'.

“It was clearly from the president himself, to stop pushing Thierry and hold the positions,” Tänak told DirtFish.

I'm also surprised how long this conversation is kept up, so I'm doing my bit.

[er88]

Moncet ideally wants a 3rd and 4th car next season so Solberg can run for the whole of next season (which would make sense). But its obviously up to Korea and budgets. - from the new Dirtfish pre event interviews.

[WRCStan]

Moncet ideally wants a 3rd and 4th car next season so Solberg can run for the whole of next season (which would make sense).

They're counting on him destroying one then? Interesting language.

[EstWRC]

Moncet ideally wants a 3rd and 4th car next season so Solberg can run for the whole of next season (which would make sense). But its obviously up to Korea and budgets. - from the new Dirtfish pre event interviews.

Moncet answer about next year was really interesting. “We will announce it when it should be completely definitive ”

David Evans caught him right away with this and said you have nothing to announce if you have contracts already and then answers that anything is possible

[er88]

They're counting on him destroying one then? Interesting language.Think he was meaning in ideal world, Solberg can run a full season (mostly without pressure of manufacturer pts in a 4th car), and the 3rd car be used giving Sordo a few more events

[er88]

Moncet answer about next year was really interesting. “We will announce it when it should be completely definitive ”

David Evans caught him right away with this and said you have nothing to announce if you have contracts already and then answers that anything is possibleYep. This is also the 2nd or 3rd time now he has talked about how contracts can be broken/paid off/ mutually terminated when it's been put to him his two main drivers are under contract

[sinepikohv]

http://https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/interesse-red-bull-motor-f1-2026-autokonzerne-zulieferer/

Remember what happened when Toyota went to F1? WRC needs to improve a lot on its use of electrical power to remain attractive to manufacturers. F1 is doing that.

[rallyfiend]

F1 is sticking with Hybrid for the future.

This is probably just a very sloppy approach to putting leverage on Honda.....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak confirmed himself that any team orders would've been futile...

"They were strong, Kalle was strong"

"I don’t think they really gave us a chance.

"We thought we were fighting back a little bit in the middle of the season, but actually they had it under control.

"I don’t think we were really close to them.

"At the end, they have beaten everybody fair and square, no question at all."

[MartijnS]

Solberg out of the team next year!

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/solberg-dropped-from-hyundais-2023-line-up/?fbclid=IwAR2jhLxS3L48ERyXPfQNM_q54WAG0-c8mcgJq47AqDJuPLaZOOxoyTDLYBc

[tcrown]

Solberg out of the team next year!

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/solberg-dropped-from-hyundais-2023-line-up/?fbclid=IwAR2jhLxS3L48ERyXPfQNM_q54WAG0-c8mcgJq47AqDJuPLaZOOxoyTDLYBc

on his personal IG he said that he wont drive 2022 as well, might have misheard

[TypeR]

Wow, that's surprising.
So in short.. Hyundai has no money for 4th car.

[seb_sh]

They say they want an experienced trio, hehe, will be interesting who they choose.

And yeah, probably no money for 4th car.

[Hartusvuori]

on his personal IG he said that he wont drive 2022 as well, might have misheard

He's not been entered on Catalunya (Sordo) and for Japan he's doing recce only.

[EstWRC]

By his own words https://twitter.com/oliversolberg01/status/1577933725941252096?s=46&t=j753XuPkfzAFCb_AKLKpAA

So I guess Suninen and Sordo in third car then? Sordo for sure doesn’t want to do whole season

[flat_right]

Surprising yes but I think this might be good for him. If he could make a strong WRC2 season, being fast and consistent then he can come back stronger in Rally1 class.

[TypeR]

well, one thing is clear - Petter won't be team principal :D

[Eli]

And here I was thinking that Tänak would announce he won't be in Catalunya, and that Solberg would be demoted to the i20 Rally2 car, if he isn't going there, does that mean they keep Suninen in that car and bring a third different driver?

[EstWRC]

Surprising yes but I think this might be good for him. If he could make a strong WRC2 season, being fast and consistent then he can come back stronger in Rally1 class.

Not a surprise for me, because of his results and I have heard that Koreans are overlooking all the deals and contracts that Adamo made back in the day

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rumour of Mikkelsen coming back to Hyundai for 2023.

[er88]

This is bad news. Moncet cited a lack of younger drivers around, which is why Solberg should be kept by any team with long term rallying aims....

Which is where the problem arises with Hyundai. They will be off in a year or so.

A proper team should be able to run 4 cars.

[Eli]

https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/10/06/hyundai-2023/

I know at this stage we need to take these in with a grain of salt but they mention both Mikkelsen & Breen for 2023, would be genuinely surprised if they take him back given his dismal season behind the Puma.

[WRCStan]

https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/10/06/hyundai-2023/

I know at this stage we need to take these in with a grain of salt but they mention both Mikkelsen & Breen for 2023, would be genuinely surprised if they take him back given his dismal season behind the Puma.

They're admittingly throwing a fistful of darts: "What do I know, they could also recall Nandan".

[Eli]

They're admittingly throwing a fistful of darts: "What do I know, they could also recall Nandan".

Exactly, which is why I said, take it with a grain of salt.

[djip]

https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/10/06/hyundai-2023/

I know at this stage we need to take these in with a grain of salt but they mention both Mikkelsen & Breen for 2023, would be genuinely surprised if they take him back given his dismal season behind the Puma.
Mlikkelsen. He is a good friend of Neuville, who's influence is growing and is definitely fast and reliable, albeit not WRC material. And who know,if Tanak leaves as well, they may get both ?

[becher]

By his own words https://twitter.com/oliversolberg01/status/1577933725941252096?s=46&t=j753XuPkfzAFCb_AKLKpAA

So I guess Suninen and Sordo in third car then? Sordo for sure doesn’t want to do whole season

Would be the best option I think.

[AnttiL]

Neuville also spoke about Mikkelsen as a candidate for Hyundai on the Dirtfish article yesterday

Another DF article suggests Neuville is leading the team ATM

[cali]

Neuville also spoke about Mikkelsen as a candidate for Hyundai on the Dirtfish article yesterday

Another DF article suggests Neuville is leading the team ATMThen Tänak is defo leaving HMSG

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Hüttünen]

Oliver get the boot from Hyundai was the best news today. If you are both really slow and crashprone, you don’t deserve seat in Rally1. Justice finally happened. No matter if it will be Mikkelsen or Suninen who will replace him.

[WRCStan]

Oliver get the boot from Hyundai was the best news today. If you are both really slow and crashprone, you don’t deserve seat in Rally1. Justice finally happened. No matter if it will be Mikkelsen or Suninen who will replace him.

You bitter he took your seat?

[TypeR]

Oliver get the boot from Hyundai was the best news today. If you are both really slow and crashprone, you don’t deserve seat in Rally1. Justice finally happened. No matter if it will be Mikkelsen or Suninen who will replace him.

Suninen has never crashed and has raw winning speed right? :D :D

[denkimi]

I never understood how a big team like hyundai could be so stupid as to hire solberg. It's like they didn't even wanted to try and fight for the manufacturers title. So many better drivers available.

[Hüttünen]

Suninen has never crashed and has raw winning speed right? :D :D

I agree. Suninen is crashprone as well. So I think not the best choice. But at least he is faster than Oliver.

[rp]

Must be Mikkelsen if not Suninen. Both will deserve another try on the highest level. Not able to win, but being Thierry´s wingman and a couple of podiums, when top 6 have some problems.

[Sulland]

Has Sordo also been sacked as number 3?

[WRCStan]

Has Sordo also been sacked as number 3?

He said he was retiring. Hyundai also said they were after a 'trio', which says to me 3 full time drivers, but that might not be in stone.

[dimviii]

MAKING SENSE OF HYUNDAI’S SOLBERG SPLIT – AND WHAT COMES NEXT
IS HYUNDAI BEING SHORT-SIGHTED IN DUMPING OLIVER SOLBERG – AND CAN HE KEEP HIS WRC CAREER ALIVE?

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/making-sense-of-hyundais-solberg-split-and-what-comes-next/

[Danny0405]

Well understandable for Hyundai to look for the best option to counter Toyota next year because the second part of the season has clearly shown it’s possible. Let’s see what they choose but clearly, the most logical option is to make a shared car between Sordo and another guy, probably Mikkelsen (or hiring back Breen but don’t seem a good bet).

For Solberg, a M-Sport deal would sound the best bet for both the team and the guy. The learning phase is finished so it’s a bet but which could pay back a lot.

[RS]

If as rumoured Tanak leaves Hyundai, then Mikkelsen no.2 to Neuville and Sordo/Suninen sharing the third car seems like a good plan.

Breen should stay at M-Sport but ideally not as lead driver. If Tanak comes that would be perfect. If Loubet can fund third Puma on events where Loeb does not drive I would favour him over Greensmith/Formaux. Presumably Greensmith will do a full season anyway and could fill any gaps in car three that Loubet cannot afford.

[flat_right]

If as rumored Tanak leaves Hyundai, then Mikkelsen no.2 to Neuville and Sordo/Suninen sharing the third car seems like a good plan.

I'm thinking exactly the same. What if Solberg was dropped because Tänak just decided to leave Hyundai? They know what Neuville delivers but Solberg still needs developing time. So to have any chance in manufactures, they need more experienced drivers.

[ouvreur]

If as rumoured Tanak leaves Hyundai, then Mikkelsen no.2 to Neuville and Sordo/Suninen sharing the third car seems like a good plan.

So, the plan is...

-Have their weakest full-time driver, who's struggled with the car all season and crashed it four or five times, as the 2023 team leader
-Put a guy with zero Rally1 experience, and who was pretty mediocre the last time he worked with the team, into the car full time
-Share the third car (because that worked so well this year) between the older, reliable guy trying to wind down his career and who will only do the events he likes (of which there will likely be less next season), and another guy with zero Rally1 experience

It's a good plan alright. A good plan to finish third in the manufacturers' championship. The only saving grace is that the Puma looks like it's made out of chocolate and tinfoil, so the famously gentle Ott Tanak will probably be seeing the recovery truck as many times as Breen next year. Owners of towing companies around the world will be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of an Estonian-Irish partnership at Ford.

Hyundai might just about grab second at that rate. If they're lucky.

[meh]

About Tänak - I don't remember anymore what was the interview or precise wording, but I remember intent - "we do developments for next year". For me, by the interview he had vision and goals in the future and in Hyundai.

On the other hand - if I need to bet my own money on chances: he stay in Hyundai, go to M-Sport or retires - I would not put big money on any of those, but ratio could be something like 5-2-1.

[bandit12]

...so the famously gentle Ott Tanak will probably be seeing the recovery truck as many times as Breen next year. .

So where you get that idea, that Tanak is some kind of car wrecker?

[wyler]

So where you get that idea, that Tanak is some kind of car wrecker?

from his whole carreer? ;)

[Rallyper]

I'm thinking exactly the same. What if Solberg was dropped because Tänak just decided to leave Hyundai? They know what Neuville delivers but Solberg still needs developing time. So to have any chance in manufactures, they need more experienced drivers.

So then they need two new top drivers. Which there aren´t on the market. The logic seems not to be there.

[RS]

So, the plan is...

-Have their weakest full-time driver, who's struggled with the car all season and crashed it four or five times, as the 2023 team leader
-Put a guy with zero Rally1 experience, and who was pretty mediocre the last time he worked with the team, into the car full time
-Share the third car (because that worked so well this year) between the older, reliable guy trying to wind down his career and who will only do the events he likes (of which there will likely be less next season), and another guy with zero Rally1 experience

It's a good plan alright. A good plan to finish third in the manufacturers' championship. The only saving grace is that the Puma looks like it's made out of chocolate and tinfoil, so the famously gentle Ott Tanak will probably be seeing the recovery truck as many times as Breen next year. Owners of towing companies around the world will be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of an Estonian-Irish partnership at Ford.

Hyundai might just about grab second at that rate. If they're lucky.

Realistically, what’s the alternative?

[djip]

I'm thinking exactly the same. What if Solberg was dropped because Tänak just decided to leave Hyundai? They know what Neuville delivers but Solberg still needs developing time. So to have any chance in manufactures, they need more experienced drivers.

It's hard to imagine that Huyndai, with all the monies they have thrown at their WRC team (have you seen their service park skyscrapper ?) cannot run 4 cars - just likke every other team. I get the idea of bringing a Mikkelsen-like driver (good n°2 to secure manu points, if not wins) then a sordo-sunninen 3rd pairing (they are pretty complementary on the events they like/dislike), but running a 4th car for young driver of the future would make a lot of sense now that there are enough chassis available. Unless there is no future ...

[AnttiL]

It's hard to imagine that Huyndai, with all the monies they have thrown at their WRC team (have you seen their service park skyscrapper ?) cannot run 4 cars - just likke every other team. I get the idea of bringing a Mikkelsen-like driver (good n°2 to secure manu points, if not wins) then a sordo-sunninen 3rd pairing (they are pretty complementary on the events they like/dislike), but running a 4th car for young driver of the future would make a lot of sense now that there are enough chassis available. Unless there is no future ...

Toyota wouldn't run four cars if it wasn't for a Japanese driver. M-Sport basically runs only one car.

[bandit12]

from his whole carreer? ;)
Some examples from latest years please?
Just those ones witch are related with his driving style.

[ouvreur]

Realistically, what’s the alternative?

Do whatever is necessary to keep Ott Tanak, find a gearbox that can survive him, then win the 2023 WRC.

It comes down to how much HQ in Korea care. From the outside, it seems they don't give two hoots. It's October and they have no team principal, the drivers are basically out of control, and their best chance to win anything looks like he's walking away, without even a fight to keep him.

So, by all means put Mikkelsen or Paddon or Suninen or even Emil Lindholm or Yohan Rossel in the third car for the full season. But if car #8 isn't in their skyscraper next year, and they've let him walk away, that shows how serious they are about winning.

Anything else is just playing at it.

[wyler]

Some examples from latest years please?
Just those ones witch are related with his driving style.

oh come on... it's widely acknowledged that his driving style is stressing the car more than others. that doesn't mean he's crash-prone, just that his driving is hard on the car. his career is full of puncture, technical faults or reliability issues that teammates experienced with fewer or zero occurrences.

[cali]

Some examples from latest years please?
Just those ones witch are related with his driving style.Well he has a point there as in 2018 and 2019 Yaris broke down a lot and Hyundai was very tank-like. Then after his move to HMSG suddenly the i20 started to break down a lot and even in the last season their suspension collapsed and had few more mysterious issues and only with Tänak. I guess his setup and being not easy with the car has to take some of the blame here. But rally is never easy for the car ofc.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[flat_right]

It's hard to imagine that Huyndai, with all the monies they have thrown at their WRC team (have you seen their service park skyscrapper ?) cannot run 4 cars - just likke every other team. I get the idea of bringing a Mikkelsen-like driver (good n°2 to secure manu points, if not wins) then a sordo-sunninen 3rd pairing (they are pretty complementary on the events they like/dislike), but running a 4th car for young driver of the future would make a lot of sense now that there are enough chassis available. Unless there is no future ...

Then you should try harder :D It is not even a rumor that they don't have spare parts to run cars. IIRC Oliver tested in Finland for Rally Estonia because they were waiting for parts. So it seems you can have all the money but if your management is not pushing suppliers, then we have this situation.



from his whole carreer? ;)

I don't have the numbers but I think over the past 5-6 years Ott has been one of the most consistent with very few crashes. I can remember Monte, Spain, Australia and in Poland... so this is less than 1 a year. Has someone been better? Maybe Sordo? Considering the speed he can drive, then this is a very good result. So the whole career talk is total BS.

[cali]

Then you should try harder :D It is not even a rumor that they don't have spare parts to run cars. IIRC Oliver tested in Finland for Rally Estonia because they were waiting for parts. So it seems you can have all the money but if your management is not pushing suppliers, then we have this situation.




I don't have the numbers but I think over the past 5-6 years Ott has been one of the most consistent with very few crashes. I can remember Monte, Spain, Australia and in Poland... so this is less than 1 a year. Has someone been better? Maybe Sordo? Considering the speed he can drive, then this is a very good result. So the whole career talk is total BS.1. Parts shortage has created by Adamo. What I've heard how on he behaved with suppliers I'm amazed they receive parts at all.
2. See my reply above. It's not about crashes but how his cars are falling apart in general.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[bandit12]

oh come on... it's widely acknowledged that his driving style is stressing the car more than others. that doesn't mean he's crash-prone, just that his driving is hard on the car. his career is full of puncture, technical faults or reliability issues that teammates experienced with fewer or zero occurrences.

Yeah. With that statement i can agree. I just thought that you meant that he is somehow more crash prone than the others.

[wyler]

Then you should try harder :D It is not even a rumor that they don't have spare parts to run cars. IIRC Oliver tested in Finland for Rally Estonia because they were waiting for parts. So it seems you can have all the money but if your management is not pushing suppliers, then we have this situation.




I don't have the numbers but I think over the past 5-6 years Ott has been one of the most consistent with very few crashes. I can remember Monte, Spain, Australia and in Poland... so this is less than 1 a year. Has someone been better? Maybe Sordo? Considering the speed he can drive, then this is a very good result. So the whole career talk is total BS.

the only total bs is replying out of topic. it's never been about crashes. it is about stressing the car to technical failure, glitches, and punctures (mostly for broken rim). for his whole career, tanak was the most "unlucky" with this in his team. then one can believe in pure luck, while another starts to think what can cause so many ruptures. remember the classic interview "toyota has to build stronger rims"

[EstWRC]

the only total bs is replying out of topic. it's never been about crashes. it is about stressing the car to technical failure, glitches, and punctures (mostly for broken rim). for his whole career, tanak was the most "unlucky" with this in his team. then one can believe in pure luck, while another starts to think what can cause so many ruptures. remember the classic interview "toyota has to build stronger rims"

Cmon dude. Toyota admitted themselves later that the rims were faulty design and they changed the design later. And Ott wasn’t the only one who had punctures because of that. Meeke was as vocal about that subject

About rim change https://www.wrcwings.tech/2019/08/26/modifications-in-the-successful-toyota-yaris-wrc-in-rally-deutschland/

What always irritates me is the fact that people talk about 18-19 years like only Tänak had problems with Toyota and other drivers didn’t. From 2019 from top of my head I remember damper problem on rally Argentina or Portugal? And ofc the famous power steering failure on last stage of sardegna and was it 2019 turkey with a electronical problemwhen car just didn’t start anymore? Can we really blame him with the last two issues I mentioned?

Go back and you can see that all of the drivers had problems often.

[wyler]

Cmon dude. Toyota admitted themselves later that the rims were faulty design and they changed the design later. And Ott wasn’t the only one who had punctures because of that. Meeke was as vocal about that subject

About rim change https://www.wrcwings.tech/2019/08/26/modifications-in-the-successful-toyota-yaris-wrc-in-rally-deutschland/

What always irritates me is the fact that people talk about 18-19 years like only Tänak had problems with Toyota and other drivers didn’t. From 2019 from top of my head I remember damper problem on rally Argentina or Portugal? And ofc the famous power steering failure on last stage of sardegna and was it 2019 turkey with a electronical problemwhen car just didn’t start anymore? Can we really blame him with the last two issues I mentioned?

Go back and you can see that all of the drivers had problems often.

yes. everybody has had problems sooner or later. I'm just saying and it is vastly acknowledged that tanak's driving style is more aggressive on the car than others. then, of course, you can build stronger cars and adjust for it (at least to a certain limit), still, the fact that has this nuance in his driving stays.

[Danny0405]

I'm thinking exactly the same. What if Solberg was dropped because Tänak just decided to leave Hyundai? They know what Neuville delivers but Solberg still needs developing time. So to have any chance in manufactures, they need more experienced drivers.

Personnally, I would think exactly the opposite (but just my opinion)
If Tanak is leaving, we know what happened to Mikkelsen last time he was full-time and he has spent 3 years out of RC1 and don’t know Rally1 cars: I don’t see how Mikkelsen could do better than a 2-3 podium season if full-time considering the competition and he would clearly not be enough against Toyota line-up (and if Breen instead of Mikkelsen, well, just see his current season) all the more than it would imply a 4th driver being a big question mark such as Suninen or Paddon. So for me, if Tanak is leaving, Hyundai has no chance to win the manufacturer title and they should play all on Neuville for WDC and try a bet with a young driver with the hope he can skyrocket (like Solberg, and here they clearly said they want an experienced guy).

Whereas, as a part-time driver with road position advantage, yeah, Mikkelsen or Breen could do a Sordo-like season perhaps so it makes sense to try this.

So IMO, Solberg being dropped should be more a sign of Tanak is staying.
The only other realistic possibility is maybe Hyundai going back to a 2019 strategy with only one full-time driver and 3 or 4 part-time drivers (from 6 to 10 rounds). For example, something with Mikkelsen, Sordo, Suninen and Breen at the same time in the team or why not Loeb who could maybe be a bit fed up with M-Sport reliability (but Hyundai would be more complicated in terms of calendar). But if then, I don’t see the point of «*excluding*» Solberg that early in the process.
So I would still go by Tanak is staying (with Mikkelsen/Sordo in 3rd car and Paddon replacing Suninen as Rally2 lead driver).

[mknight]

we know what happened to Mikkelsen last time he was full-time

He finished 4th in WRC behind Tanak-Neuville-Ogier even while being dropped for multiple rallies (3) and while having no pace in the car on tarmac. Beating Evans (with same number of rallies) as well as Latvala, Meeke and Lappi with 3 more starts. Basically a season rather similar to Evans this year.

Yes it is possible he will do worse now (3 years, Rally1) but also that he will do better (See Loeb in i20 vs Puma and Tanak in old car on tarmac vs new).

On topic:

I'd also say dropping Solberg means it's more likely Tanak is staying.
But there is still a possibility that they want to aim for manu title at all costs because Tanak is leaving reducing their driver title chances. In that case Sordo-Mikkelsen-Suninen (or Evans in one car albeit unlikely) rotating in 2 cars could be a possible strategy.

I'd rate it like 70% for Tanak staying and 30% against.

PS: Find it close to impossible that Hyundai would be interested in hiring Breen for next year (likely would even need to pay him out of his contract).

[denkimi]

yes. everybody has had problems sooner or later. I'm just saying and it is vastly acknowledged that tanak's driving style is more aggressive on the car than others. then, of course, you can build stronger cars and adjust for it (at least to a certain limit), still, the fact that has this nuance in his driving stays.

indeed. some drivers go around big stones and potholes and some go straight through, Tanak is one of the latter. I can't remember which year or rally, but i still remember video of a blind crest where everyone else took a line to avoid something, but tanak just went straight over it. If often works out fine, but sometimes it doesn't.

[Danny0405]

He finished 4th in WRC behind Tanak-Neuville-Ogier even while being dropped for multiple rallies (3) and while having no pace in the car on tarmac. Beating Evans (with same number of rallies) as well as Latvala, Meeke and Lappi with 3 more starts. Basically a season rather similar to Evans this year.

Yes it is possible he will do worse now (3 years, Rally1) but also that he will do better (See Loeb in i20 vs Puma and Tanak in old car on tarmac vs new).

On topic:

I'd also say dropping Solberg means it's more likely Tanak is staying.
But there is still a possibility that they want to aim for manu title at all costs because Tanak is leaving reducing their driver title chances. In that case Sordo-Mikkelsen-Suninen (or Evans in one car albeit unlikely) rotating in 2 cars could be a possible strategy.

I'd rate it like 70% for Tanak staying and 30% against.

PS: Find it close to impossible that Hyundai would be interested in hiring Breen for next year (likely would even need to pay him out of his contract).

I don’t say it’s awful but in 2019, he clearly only reach podiums thanks to road position by skipping the right events at the right moment and it’s probably only Adamo’s masterclass in his Hyundai tenure (in that sense, Evans was better in 2019 because Evans skipping events was less favourable for the Welsh); I wouldn’t have done better by doing the 3 other events. And it’s worse than Evans’ correct season.
So I still don’t really see how he can do more than 2-3 podiums in the season if he comes back full time and it will not be enough against Toyota in my opinion.

Then, as I evoked, the 2019 Hyundai strategy with only one full-time driver is a possibility. Less probable than Tanak staying though.
About Breen, I’m pretty sure M-Sport would be okay to free him of his contract for nothing if Hyundai wants him, considering how bad is the situation; still, I’m not sure it’s the best idea to make him come back for Hyundai.

[meh]

I'm just saying and it is vastly acknowledged that tanak's driving style is more aggressive on the car than others. then, of course, you can build stronger cars and adjust for it (at least to a certain limit), still, the fact that has this nuance in his driving stays.

I don't say that Tänak has not caused any technical issues for cars previously, but I still point out 2 things which comes to my mind when I'm reading this "aggressive style" talks:
* Tänak is known to be one of the best guys for tire-wear, he drives economically. It's a bit opposite of driving aggressive style.
* and with current car, Tänak has admitted that he can not drive that economically as he wants or what is "natural" for him.

[Danny0405]

Another interesting point in Hyundai’s announcement is that Solberg will do only recce and PR activities in Japan (whereas he was supposed to do the rallye normally).
They could put Sordo to maximize the result but, if the new driver is not a current manufacturer driver, it could be even more worthy to make him drive in Japan to get some habits.
As the publication of the entry list is very soon, it may explain why the announcement of splitting with Solberg has been done now and we may have the name of his replacement very soon.

[Eli]

Another interesting point in Hyundai’s announcement is that Solberg will do only recce and PR activities in Japan (whereas he was supposed to do the rallye normally).
They could put Sordo to maximize the result but, if the new driver is not a current manufacturer driver, it could be even more worthy to make him drive in Japan to get some habits.
As the publication of the entry list is very soon, it may explain why the announcement of splitting with Solberg has been done now and we may have the name of his replacement very soon.

When do they publish the entry list? is it 3 weeks prior? 4?

[Danny0405]

When do they publish the entry list? is it 3 weeks prior? 4?

Normally, closing is on 10th or 11th October and publication on 17th.

[trykmann]

I don't say that Tänak has not caused any technical issues for cars previously, but I still point out 2 things which comes to my mind when I'm reading this "aggressive style" talks:
* Tänak is known to be one of the best guys for tire-wear, he drives economically. It's a bit opposite of driving aggressive style.
* and with current car, Tänak has admitted that he can not drive that economically as he wants or what is "natural" for him.

In my opinion Tänak usually takes more out of the car than his teammates. This is reflected in the speed and stage wins statistics, for example 2018, 2019 and 2021 he had the most stage wins. Unfortunately this gives more stress to all the cars components, more speed = more force to all parts. I agree, in some occasions the more clever solution would be to take it a little bit slower and have a more careful approach. Still, if you want to win, then you have be faster than your rivals.

With all the technical errors, it is not so straightfoward as other members have pointed out. His teammates have had also similar technical problems. For example Toyota power streering or rims and Hyundai weak rear axle in 2021 season.

[WRCStan]

Another interesting point in Hyundai’s announcement is that Solberg will do only recce and PR activities in Japan (whereas he was supposed to do the rallye normally).
They could put Sordo to maximize the result but, if the new driver is not a current manufacturer driver, it could be even more worthy to make him drive in Japan to get some habits.
As the publication of the entry list is very soon, it may explain why the announcement of splitting with Solberg has been done now and we may have the name of his replacement very soon.

2 car entry possible?

[Danny0405]

2 car entry possible?

Nothing forbids it but don’t see the point for Hyundai (I don’t think they’re budget-constraint to be at that point) personally even if there will be nothing at stake in Japan. If they already know the identity of the new driver, it is clearly valuable to give him some mileage; and if not, sending Sordo could still be useful to give him mileage on tarmac.
On the other hand, for M-Sport, yeah, I would bet in an only 2-car entry (+ Serderidis as a client apparently).

[Tauri_J]

Dunno If posted but another confirmation about the toxic enviroment inside Hyundai's team.


"The difference in what they promised and what turned out was very shocking, says Solberg to SVT Sport.

The plan was a two-year contract together in order to invest in the future. But that changed quickly. The plan was that we would go for younger drivers, but we got new management and they only wanted to invest in experienced drivers, says Solberg.

Obviously it was tough. It has not been an easy year in the team. The team is not exactly in a good position and there has not been a good atmosphere in the team. But it's always better to have somewhere to drive, even if it's not always easy or fun. In a way, it's nice to be out, from all the politics and all the s**t that was in the team. But it was still a fantastic opportunity to drive in the world championship."

[TypeR]

Dunno If posted but another confirmation about the toxic enviroment inside Hyundai's team.

"The difference in what they promised and what turned out was very shocking, says Solberg to SVT Sport.

The plan was a two-year contract together in order to invest in the future. But that changed quickly. The plan was that we would go for younger drivers, but we got new management and they only wanted to invest in experienced drivers, says Solberg.

Obviously it was tough. It has not been an easy year in the team. The team is not exactly in a good position and there has not been a good atmosphere in the team. But it's always better to have somewhere to drive, even if it's not always easy or fun. In a way, it's nice to be out, from all the politics and all the s**t that was in the team. But it was still a fantastic opportunity to drive in the world championship."
wow.. considering that Solberg has been almost always polite and nice in his comments(like Taka).. then there must be a disaster in Hyundai.

Like or dislike Adamo, but he wouldn't have let such stupid headless situation happen..

[Sulland]

The Hyundai was late, and gave little to no test time for the drivers before homologation.

A difficult car to master, that has been getting better over the year, but still not easy to go fast over a whole rally.
I think we can be lucky Hyundai is still in the game.

[WRCStan]

I think we can be lucky Hyundai is still in the game.

I agree. Was it Noh who signed up for Rally1 then got sacked? Pardon me, rotated to a new position with Hyundai Motor? Or would that have needed more involvement from Korea?

[flat_right]

How much can teams change bits and pieces between the seasons? Could a team build a totally new car like they are doing in F1?

[AnttiL]

How much can teams change bits and pieces between the seasons? Could a team build a totally new car like they are doing in F1?

They can only use homologation jokers which are quite limited.

But I don't know if you can homologate a completely new car?

[ouvreur]

Like or dislike Adamo, but he wouldn't have let such stupid headless situation happen..
Erm... I'd beg to differ. Looking at it from the outside, and based on some of the comments in that 'Team Solberg' TV show, I'd say the biggest reason Oliver finds himself in this stupid headless situation, is because of Adamo.

He fell over himself to sign him up, since the rumour was he'd been made an offer by M-Sport, and promoted him into the Rally1 car far too soon, when all the smart money was on him having another year in Rally2 before making the switch.

Whatever his vision for Oliver might have been (if there ever was one), it was either not compatible with what Hyundai wanted, or not communicated clearly to the team upon him 'leaving' in December.

Then, of course, he 'left'. What's happened since then, while not directly his responsibility, was set in motion before he departed Alzenau. For sure, someone could and should have stepped in to manage the situation better. But the die was cast by whatever stupid contract Adamo signed with a kid who everyone hoped would be another Rovanpera, but left to fend for himself in a team pulling itself apart.

[TypeR]

Sordo confirmed for Japan in third car

[wyler]

Erm... I'd beg to differ. Looking at it from the outside, and based on some of the comments in that 'Team Solberg' TV show, I'd say the biggest reason Oliver finds himself in this stupid headless situation, is because of Adamo.

He fell over himself to sign him up, since the rumour was he'd been made an offer by M-Sport, and promoted him into the Rally1 car far too soon, when all the smart money was on him having another year in Rally2 before making the switch.

Whatever his vision for Oliver might have been (if there ever was one), it was either not compatible with what Hyundai wanted, or not communicated clearly to the team upon him 'leaving' in December.

Then, of course, he 'left'. What's happened since then, while not directly his responsibility, was set in motion before he departed Alzenau. For sure, someone could and should have stepped in to manage the situation better. But the die was cast by whatever stupid contract Adamo signed with a kid who everyone hoped would be another Rovanpera, but left to fend for himself in a team pulling itself apart.

adamo was the least person wanting solberg in 3rd car other than snow rounds. remember the outburst after kenya (you'll find it in another same solberg tv)

[ouvreur]

adamo was the least person wanting solberg in 3rd car other than snow rounds. remember the outburst after kenya (you'll find it in another same solberg tv)

If that's the case, it's more proof that he's the man who set Solberg on this stupid headless course.

What's the point signing a young guy to a 2 year contract, with a promise to drive a Rally1 car in 2022, if you tear his head off every time the pressure YOU apply gets to him, and he makes a mistake? Simply put, Adamo's mind changed like the wind. One minute he's the next big thing (after Arctic), then all of a sudden he's a shit, not worthy of even driving the Rally2 (after Kenya). He's literally the last person on earth I'd entrust a young driver's development to. Compare and contrast with the way Toyota have brought Kalle to the top of the sport.

I don't blame him alone. There's clearly more to it than one man's hasty decision, and the chances to correct the course / heal the relationship have all been missed. But this train wreck was set in motion by Adamo.

[AnttiL]

Compare and contrast with the way Toyota have brought Kalle to the top of the sport.

Also remember that Kalle was a WRC2(Pro) champion when coming to Toyota in 2020. Toyota took a little bit of a chance letting him drive the third car on every round, putting maybe some pressure on him.

[seb_sh]

Also remember that Kalle was a WRC2(Pro) champion when coming to Toyota in 2020. Toyota took a little bit of a chance letting him drive the third car on every round, putting maybe some pressure on him.

I think that's actually where you will find the big difference in their respective career paths. For Rovanpera it made sense to make the step at the time. For Solberg it was a bit more complicated.

They both drove in Latvia as youngsters because they didn't have a licence. And as they began to beat people in Latvia started to add other championships. Rovanpera drove Latvia, Finland and Italy in 2017, Solberg did Latvia and America in 2019. They both did well at this stage, winning rallies and showing great speed and talent. Next step was WRC2 in 2018 for Rovanpera where he was fast but had some crashes, but he won a couple rallies, while Solberg was at a similar stage in 2020 racing in ERC and WRC2. Now this is perhaps the first point where Solberg lost a bit of momentum and experience because 2020 for him was to get used to being at the front in Rally2/R5 cars and it didn't help that it was a short year. The next stage for Rovanpera was full focus on WRC2 in 2019 where he won almost everything as we know, so far they had similar career steps and for Solberg this should have been 2021. But instead Adamo put him in the car on Arctic rally instead of the WRC2 as was the plan. After that he kept bouncing between the WRC2 and the WRC. Hyundai's Rally2 car was not great at the time so that plus constant switching probably confused him. Now at this point Rovanpera is a WRC2 winner having dominated the championship so Toyota decides to secure the future and put him in the car full time, the short 2020 wasn't good for him either but he had the WRC2 win behind him and he was steadily improving. Solberg got a partial season in a disorganised Hyundai team after a very confusing 2021.

I think Solberg is very talented but there was a big mistake made in his development especially when you put him side by side with Rovanpera's plan. I don't know who made the decisions of what to do, was it Adamo, the Koreans, his dad, Neuville, the Pope... In 2020 Oliver showed speed and 2021 should have been a year to focus on the WRC2 championship with some pressure and with fighting at the top but not so much to be in the main team, giving interviews etc. Most of the greats had that kind of season behind them when they went into the WRC and started to perform. That's Solberg's missing year.

[AnttiL]

I think that's actually where you will find the big difference in their respective career paths. For Rovanpera it made sense to make the step at the time. For Solberg it was a bit more complicated.

Yes but my point was that this wasn't Toyota's achievement, more about Jouhki and other people behind Rovanperä. The best thing Toyota did was not buying Rovanperä out of his Skoda contract already a year before.

[seb_sh]

Yes but my point was that this wasn't Toyota's achievement, more about Jouhki and other people behind Rovanperä. The best thing Toyota did was not buying Rovanperä out of his Skoda contract already a year before.

Agreed, they took him not too soon but also not too late, he might have gone to MSport for example.

I wasn't disagreeing just expanding :P

[WRCStan]

In hineysight too-sooners, who should have been in the half-car?

[AnttiL]

In hineysight too-sooners, who should have been in the half-car?

Suninen. With all tarmac rallies, Sardinia and Safari for Sordo. Suninen should have done Sweden, Portugal, Estonia, Finland, Greece and NZ

Or they should have negotiated more with Breen, but I guess all he wanted was a full season.

EDIT: And of course guys like Mikkelsen and Østberg would have likely gotten more solid results than Solberg.

[wyler]

If that's the case, it's more proof that he's the man who set Solberg on this stupid headless course.

What's the point signing a young guy to a 2 year contract, with a promise to drive a Rally1 car in 2022, if you tear his head off every time the pressure YOU apply gets to him, and he makes a mistake? Simply put, Adamo's mind changed like the wind. One minute he's the next big thing (after Arctic), then all of a sudden he's a shit, not worthy of even driving the Rally2 (after Kenya). He's literally the last person on earth I'd entrust a young driver's development to. Compare and contrast with the way Toyota have brought Kalle to the top of the sport.

I don't blame him alone. There's clearly more to it than one man's hasty decision, and the chances to correct the course / heal the relationship have all been missed. But this train wreck was set in motion by Adamo.

i don't know if you say all this 'cause you're internal at hiunday, and know much more than me, 'cause if not it seems to me more you fantasizing it than a depiction of reality...
never heard about what you say. only saw adamo wanting to use solberg in wrc where he know would be useful (and proved ok in arctic), and leave him to wrc2 for the rest. solbergs team were among the (or the one) first to have the new rally 2 and even. before they had plenty of time in working on the r5 car...

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/meeke-on-shortlist-for-hyundai-2023-wrc-drive-/10386503/

Wait what? Meeke?? Seriously? Really makes me wonder if we'll see Hyundai beyond 2023.

[seb_sh]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/meeke-on-shortlist-for-hyundai-2023-wrc-drive-/10386503/

Wait what? Meeke?? Seriously? Really makes me wonder if we'll see Hyundai beyond 2023.

Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo/Meeke as a quartet based on good relations between them with Tanak sitting out or doing a part season somewhere else? Stranger things have happened.

[meh]

Tänak today in interview to estonian media says clearly that he is driving in Hyundai next year:
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120085576/delfi-video-katalooniast-ott-tanak-utles-millises-tiimis-ta-jargmisel-wrc-hooajal-soidab

Interview itself is painful to watch due to "journalist".


edit for the comments: I just pointed out that he said it clearly, it does not mean that it's clearly the truth :)

[seb_sh]

Tänak today in interview to estonian media says clearly that he is driving in Hyundai next year:
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120085576/delfi-video-katalooniast-ott-tanak-utles-millises-tiimis-ta-jargmisel-wrc-hooajal-soidab

Interview itself is painful to watch due to "journalist".

Then no Mikkelsen haha

[RS]

Then no Mikkelsen haha

Why not share third car with Sordo?

[bomber21]

I never understand rally drivers saying “I want to do some rallies but not all of them because I want to spend time with my family”.

Have you ever heard F1 drivers saying something similar?!

Come on, they suppose to live the dream, this is their passion and their way of living and they want to spend time with the family at 35 years old??

[doubled1978]

I never understand rally drivers saying “I want to do some rallies but not all of them because I want to spend time with my family”.

Have you ever heard F1 drivers saying something similar?!

Come on, they suppose to live the dream, this is their passion and their way of living and they want to spend time with the family at 35 years old??

I know what you mean, it’s surprising to hear so often from rally guys…

[AnttiL]

I never understand rally drivers saying “I want to do some rallies but not all of them because I want to spend time with my family”.

Have you ever heard F1 drivers saying something similar?!

Come on, they suppose to live the dream, this is their passion and their way of living and they want to spend time with the family at 35 years old??

Kris Meeke is 43

[doubled1978]

Kris Meeke is 43

I know there is no real justification for Meeke getting a drive, but I would like him to.
There is just something about him that makes for intrigue. I guess it’s the possibility of stage wins or crashes.
As crash prone and unreliable as he is, he does have the speed and ability to set amazing stage times which makes me want to watch.

[flat_right]

I never understand rally drivers saying “I want to do some rallies but not all of them because I want to spend time with my family”.

Have you ever heard F1 drivers saying something similar?!

Come on, they suppose to live the dream, this is their passion and their way of living and they want to spend time with the family at 35 years old??

It’s because it’s not possible in F1. I think Vettel, Rosberg etc would be happy to do just some classic events like Spa, Monza, Suzuka and give those ugly Tilkedromes to some young guns.

[Kenneth]

There is 20 more drivers in line in F1 in case anybody leaves. In WRC, teams would be glad to use Loeb or Ogier even for single event, because they are still much much better than anybody in WRC2.

[Toyoda]

There is 20 more drivers in line in F1 in case anybody leaves. In WRC, teams would be glad to use Loeb or Ogier even for single event, because they are still much much better than anybody in WRC2.

Also the surface and road changes between rally must be far more variable than in F1 making the case for potential specialists for each event.

I would have thought its a straight shootout between Mikelson and Paddon to partner Sordo, I imagine it will be Mikelson when you include the influence of Neuville.
History is on Paddons side when Sordo and Paddon partnered up in the third car and did extremely well.

[cali]

Also the surface and road changes between rally must be far more variable than in F1 making the case for potential specialists for each event.

I would have thought its a straight shootout between Mikelson and Paddon to partner Sordo, I imagine it will be Mikelson when you include the influence of Neuville.
History is on Paddons side when Sordo and Paddon partnered up in the third car and did extremely well.History is not on Paddon's side because he has been out of WRC for about what, 5-7 years and getting beaten in Rally2. Don't count on NZ result because he didn't have any real competition there. Mikkelsen is clear favourite if you have to choose between them because he has been behind the wheel for years at WRC2 / Rally2 and winning constantly.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Tauri_J]

Tänak today in interview to estonian media says clearly that he is driving in Hyundai next year:
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120085576/delfi-video-katalooniast-ott-tanak-utles-millises-tiimis-ta-jargmisel-wrc-hooajal-soidab

Interview itself is painful to watch due to "journalist".

Safe to say that my bet of everyone staying put looks to be coming true.

[cali]

Safe to say that my bet of everyone staying put looks to be coming true.Tänak has been misleading the media before so I would'nt take that interview very seriously specially considering that it was done by Martinson who is considered the fool of estonian sports journalists. Tänak likes to fool around with fools and by the looks of his grin my guess he is just messing around

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[speederbee]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/meeke-on-shortlist-for-hyundai-2023-wrc-drive-/10386503/

Wait what? Meeke?? Seriously? Really makes me wonder if we'll see Hyundai beyond 2023.

If Hyundai's 2023 is anything like their 2022, I expect they'll leave. After all, from a business perspective, they're spending tons of money on their WRC program as a form of advertising. They want people to see a cool Hyundai car and think "hey I like Hyundai, my next car should be one".

Well, this year: overall they've been soundly trounced by Toyota. Their top driver is constantly and publicly complaining that the car is trash. Most of the news articles about them discuss how dysfunctional the team is.

I hope they do better in 2023 and I hope they stay. But as it stands now, would a Hyundai boss look at this state of affairs and think that viewers are going to be persuaded to buy a Hyundai?

[bomber21]

Well, first a Hyundai boss should make a decision at last to hire a new team manager or make Moncet a permanent one and not a deputy.

[AnttiL]

Tänak has been misleading the media before so I would'nt take that interview very seriously specially considering that it was done by Martinson who is considered the fool of estonian sports journalists. Tänak likes to fool around with fools and by the looks of his grin my guess he is just messing around

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I still remember 2017. First he said to David Evans at the M-Sport event that he's staying at M-Sport for 2018, and then he wrote in his Delfi column that the rumors about him changing teams are ridiculous.

But that's how it is, you cannot say anything in advance.

[ouvreur]

If Hyundai's 2023 is anything like their 2022, I expect they'll leave. After all, from a business perspective, they're spending tons of money on their WRC program as a form of advertising. They want people to see a cool Hyundai car and think "hey I like Hyundai, my next car should be one".

Well, this year: overall they've been soundly trounced by Toyota. Their top driver is constantly and publicly complaining that the car is trash. Most of the news articles about them discuss how dysfunctional the team is.

I hope they do better in 2023 and I hope they stay. But as it stands now, would a Hyundai boss look at this state of affairs and think that viewers are going to be persuaded to buy a Hyundai?

Well, if all they want is for the general public to think the i20 is cool, they've probably succeeded. It looks cool and (apart from when there's a problem) you can't tell, without looking at the results, if one winged-up Rally1 car is faster than another.

Not one person outside the 'bubble' that is being a WRC employee or fan could give two shits who's driving them, what they had for lunch, how happy they are in the team, or what they plan to do next year. The internal strife at Hyundai has literally zero impact on perception among the general public of rallying.

[pettersolberg29]

Well, first a Hyundai boss should make a decision at last to hire a new team manager or make Moncet a permanent one and not a deputy.

That decision has already been made - Mr Neuville is the team boss, and that is how it has been and will stay as long as he's there!

[Toyoda]

History is not on Paddon's side because he has been out of WRC for about what, 5-7 years and getting beaten in Rally2. Don't count on NZ result because he didn't have any real competition there. Mikkelsen is clear favourite if you have to choose between them because he has been behind the wheel for years at WRC2 / Rally2 and winning constantly.

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Mikkelsen's been out for a long time also, in fact one year less than Paddon and those two years in Hyundai weren't great. Paddon won RNZ by a mile and came third in Finland in a brand-new car he had to rebuild and after recovering from Covid with a tiny team after not driving Finland for a while, it was the drive that was needed. Im not saying Paddon should be first choice and I agree Mikkelsen will likely get the job but has he improved since the last time he was in a WRC car and what makes this time any different? The last time Paddon was in a WRC for a full rally he came 2nd, vs Mikkelsen's 6th.
What they should be doing is matching a driving style to the car, so a driver is comfortable from the getgo.

[AnttiL]

Mikkelsen's been out for a long time also, in fact one year less than Paddon and those two years in Hyundai weren't great. Paddon won RNZ by a mile and came third in Finland in a brand-new car he had to rebuild and after recovering from Covid with a tiny team after not driving Finland for a while, it was the drive that was needed. Im not saying Paddon should be first choice and I agree Mikkelsen will likely get the job but has he improved since the last time he was in a WRC car and what makes this time any different? The last time Paddon was in a WRC for a full rally he came 2nd, vs Mikkelsen's 6th.
What they should be doing is matching a driving style to the car, so a driver is comfortable from the getgo.

Mikkelsen has been driving WRC2 all the time so he's essentially been in WRC, getting to know the new rallies and new stages. Paddon has been just doing events in New Zealand.

Paddon might have been third in WRC2 in Finland, but in stage times he was only once in top three. And in NZ there was no competition.

I like Paddon as a character and he was good as a gravel driver pair to Sordo, but sadly I wouldn't pick him for a Rally1 seat over Mikkelsen right now, especially not for a full-time seat.

[Humber]

I cannot see Mikkelsen going back to Hyundai, been there done that. Mikkelsen is like the Kopecky of this era with Skoda. Could Lappi be lured to Hyundai for a full season drive if he promises not to complain about the car?

Paddon 35yrs, Mikkelsen 33year, Lappi 31, Suninen 28, then even amongst the other Finns - Huttunen, Lindholm etc (Pajari would have been something 7 or 8 years old when Paddon drove his first Rally Finland and yet Pajari (at 20 years old) was faster than Paddon, this year)

Paddon sort of made a mistake in my opinion of not building the Hyundai AP4 in left hand drive, even though he has said it does not effect him. The Australian Toyota yaris GR AP4 have been built as left hand drive for Harry Bates.
Any wild cards - from the Spanish, Italian, French, another Belgian. etc?

[AnttiL]

Could Lappi be lured to Hyundai for a full season drive

No, I think he's happy with a partial program at Toyota and he doesn't want to repeat his Citroen mistake.

[AnttiL]

Any wild cards - from the Spanish, Italian, French, another Belgian. etc?

Hyundai wants an experienced driver, not a wild card.

You have Mikkelsen, Suninen, Östberg, Paddon and Meeke available with previous WRC experience.

[Toyoda]

Paddon drove his first Rally Finland and yet Pajari (at 20 years old) was faster than Paddon, this year)

I guess you don't get the gravity of buying a new car and needing to ship it back to NZ the next day after the rally in order to get it back to the single biggest rally of your carreer to ensure sponsors and your country get to see you rally, Vs someone on a home rally with nothing to lose. The smart move was to complete the rally with no risk, gaining valuable seat time in a new car and knowledge for a crack at it next year. Its logical and smart and that's how he played it. That has no meaning on his pace whats so ever but I can see I'm not getting anywhere with logic.

[AnttiL]

Yeah, surely he can convince team bosses "I could have driven faster"

[cali]

I guess you don't get the gravity of buying a new car and needing to ship it back to NZ the next day after the rally in order to get it back to the single biggest rally of your carreer to ensure sponsors and your country get to see you rally, Vs someone on a home rally with nothing to lose. The smart move was to complete the rally with no risk, gaining valuable seat time in a new car and knowledge for a crack at it next year. Its logical and smart and that's how he played it. That has no meaning on his pace whats so ever but I can see I'm not getting anywhere with logic.Logic... Right...
I like Paddon as well but his performance so far has not impressed many of us here and I dare think any of team bosses as well.
Even if we are fans of somebody we need to be fair and look at the things as they are and not making up some fantasies.
Very likeable bloke though and I would like to see him more in WRC though his Rally1 chances are slim.

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[Myrvold]

Hyundai wants an experienced driver, not a wild card.

You have Mikkelsen, Suninen, Östberg, Paddon and Meeke available with previous WRC experience.

With Meeke you get both though. Experienced wild card.

[Rallyest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7g0qiAa_gY


Interesting comment by Neuville. That he is been pushing to keep Ott as his teammate, so kinda sounds like He hasnt made up his mind yet, where he will be driving next year.

Also Gus'es comment is also interesting, who else he could be reffering to at 36:58: Everyone is waiting for a certain person to decide where he wants to go

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7g0qiAa_gY


Interesting comment by Neuville. That he is been pushing to keep Ott as his teammate, so kinda sounds like He hasnt made up his mind yet, where he will be driving next year.

Also Gus'es comment is also interesting, who else he could be reffering to at 36:58: Everyone is waiting for a certain person to decide where he wants to go

Exactly . And todays news from Toyota camp that they still haven’t locked their lineup and hope to do it on rally Japan

[TypeR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7g0qiAa_gY

Also Gus'es comment is also interesting, who else he could be reffering to at 36:58: Everyone is waiting for a certain person to decide where he wants to go
Evans deciding between M-Sport or Hyundai? :D

[Rallyest]

Evans deciding between M-Sport or Hyundai? :D

Well, lets say in a scenario where Tänak goes to Toyota, who's seat will he take? My bet would be Evans. SO if things would go that way, then Evans would need to take that decision, either to go to a team with no budget or go to a team that has a car notorious for its lack of drivability. :D so i wouldnt toss that idea completely out of the window

[Rallyest]

Exactly . And todays news from Toyota camp that they still haven’t locked their lineup and hope to do it on rally Japan

For a brief second i was pretty certain Tänak will remain at Hyundai, but now when everyone is throwing theese hints around, i am not so sure anymore. Sometimes looks like they are all in it together to start theese ruomors for fun, and then decide in their circle what fun hint should someone drop and where, just to mess with us rallyfans :D

[Jewy46]

With Meeke you get both though. Experienced wild car.

Very true but you also get a 5 time WRC winner. Not many others available that can say that :) :)

[mknight]

Safe to say that my bet of everyone staying put looks to be coming true.

Solberg already got kicked, in case you missed it.

The very least that will happen is that Hyundai gets someone to share the car with Sordo. Cause you really don't want Sordo in Sweden, Estonia or Finland
Apart from those listed there is also Suninen, but he has quite uneven season.

I can't see Hyundai hiring Meeke if they want a reliable points scorer. He got kicked by Toyota specifically for beeing so unreliable it lost them the title.

[Tauri_J]

Solberg already got kicked, in case you missed it.

The very least that will happen is that Hyundai gets someone to share the car with Sordo. Cause you really don't want Sordo in Sweden, Estonia or Finland
Apart from those listed there is also Suninen, but he has quite uneven season.

I can't see Hyundai hiring Meeke if they want a reliable points scorer. He got kicked by Toyota specifically for beeing so unreliable it lost them the title.

Solberg is irrelevant


With all these silly season shenanigans, I wouldnt be surprised If every fulltime top driver will stay put. ( Rovanpera, Tänak, Neuville, Evans, Breen)

[Danny0405]

Meeke makes absolutely no sense for me; he has been dropped at the same time than Mikkelsen from the main class and has made almost no rallye since then (even if he developed the Skoda); and his last year and half (don’t forget his last half-season with Citroen), he was no reliable but not anymore able of winning also.

Paddon, well, his return was better than what we could have expected but he has made very few outings in Europe since he was dropped and even before Mikkelsen and Meeke. Too much risky according to me to a regular part-time driver at this step of his return; being the Rally2 official driver would already be a good step ... and why not one or two outings as 3rd driver in some rallies Sordo or Mikkelsen are not really efficient in or don’t know (Safari? Finland?) a bit like Breen in 2019.

So in credible experienced solutions, it lets only Mikkelsen and Suninen (don’t see the point of hiring Loubet for firing Solberg); Suninen’s season is so-so and not sure he can bring much more than Solberg (and question mark about what Hyundai will do with Suninen if he is not retained as Rally1 driver whereas Paddon will make his comeback in Rally2).

And maybe Breen if M-Sport frees him for nothing which is a very realistic possibility also. Could sound risky to take him back considering his season but anyway, all the solutions we’re evoking are risky with other drivers not knowing Rally1 cars. The only safe option would be to steal Lappi from Toyota but if Lappi has part-Time offers from both Toyota and Hyundai, I don’t see the point for him to take Hyundai’s offer.

[Toyoda]

Meeke makes absolutely no sense for me; he has been dropped at the same time than Mikkelsen from the main class and has made almost no rallye since then (even if he developed the Skoda); and his last year and half (don’t forget his last half-season with Citroen), he was no reliable but not anymore able of winning also.

Paddon, well, his return was better than what we could have expected but he has made very few outings in Europe since he was dropped and even before Mikkelsen and Meeke. Too much risky according to me to a regular part-time driver at this step of his return; being the Rally2 official driver would already be a good step ... and why not one or two outings as 3rd driver in some rallies Sordo or Mikkelsen are not really efficient in or don’t know (Safari? Finland?) a bit like Breen in 2019.

So in credible experienced solutions, it lets only Mikkelsen and Suninen (don’t see the point of hiring Loubet for firing Solberg); Suninen’s season is so-so and not sure he can bring much more than Solberg (and question mark about what Hyundai will do with Suninen if he is not retained as Rally1 driver whereas Paddon will make his comeback in Rally2).

And maybe Breen if M-Sport frees him for nothing which is a very realistic possibility also. Could sound risky to take him back considering his season but anyway, all the solutions we’re evoking are risky with other drivers not knowing Rally1 cars. The only safe option would be to steal Lappi from Toyota but if Lappi has part-Time offers from both Toyota and Hyundai, I don’t see the point for him to take Hyundai’s offer.

Agree with all that.
Lappi would go for the money presumably, especially with a part-time contract.
Makes you wonder if a Neuville/Evans combo would work driving style and relationship-wise with Ott back in Toyota but it increasingly sounds like Ott will be staying put when you hear that dirtfish interview about car development just before the rally. Malcom sounds like he wants a big name back in the Puma also, Evans back to Ford? Breen to Hyundai? Ott to Toyota, that would be a massive mixup.

[Danny0405]

Agree with all that.
Lappi would go for the money presumably, especially with a part-time contract.
Makes you wonder if a Neuville/Evans combo would work driving style and relationship-wise with Ott back in Toyota but it increasingly sounds like Ott will be staying put when you hear that dirtfish interview about car development just before the rally. Malcom sounds like he wants a big name back in the Puma also, Evans back to Ford? Breen to Hyundai? Ott to Toyota, that would be a massive mixup.

Latvala sounds quite doubtful about hiring Tanak in addition to Rovanpera (in last interview in Dirtfish or WRC, he told something as «*is it the best for the team?*») ... as am I because I’m not sure it’s the best way to show confidence to Rovanpera.

And if Toyota does not hire Tanak, I don’t see the point of letting Evans leave: yes, his season is not good but in the end, I don’t see which driver could do better on full time season except the Big 3 (and Ogier for sure); Lappi has not shown for example he can do really better.
The only case where there could be a discussion in Toyota would be if Toyota brand decides to cut a bit costs with the economic situation (reducing the team to 3 cars) while ordering to keep Katsuta part-time: but even in that case, I would personally choose to keep Evans full-time (and shared 3rd car between Katsuta and Ogier) over a lineup with Lappi and shared 2nd and 3rd cars.

And on the other hand, I don’t see the point for Tanak to go to M-Sport.
So I think the market is quite blocked and that the changes will be only at the margin: biggest move could be about Breen if Hyundai wants to take him back (and M-Sport hiring Lappi or Mikkelsen in exchange) but even not sure.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221023/f3cae285e3450ed481227b0d7742492a.jpg

[jonkka]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221023/f3cae285e3450ed481227b0d7742492a.jpg

In the light of today's news, that's very telling picture - especially korean looking at departing duo.

[Eli]

In the light of today's news, that's very telling picture - especially korean looking at departing duo.

What were Ott & Martin looking at? remind me please.

[meh]

About Tänak - I don't remember anymore what was the interview or precise wording, but I remember intent - "we do developments for next year". For me, by the interview he had vision and goals in the future and in Hyundai.

On the other hand - if I need to bet my own money on chances: he stay in Hyundai, go to M-Sport or retires - I would not put big money on any of those, but ratio could be something like 5-2-1.

What is good thing here... I don't bet my money :)

[AnttiL]

What were Ott & Martin looking at? remind me please.

Yaris?

[manthey]

Yaris?Maybe the Rally2 in the making anticipated by Latvala?

[cali]

I think Rally2 is the key here, again like at the end of 2019.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[manthey]

I think Rally2 is the key here, again like at the end of 2019.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

Can you explain deeper? Hyundai rally2 was a feature to swith from Toyota ?

[AnttiL]

Can you explain deeper? Hyundai rally2 was a feature to swith from Toyota ?

Yes, RedGrey started operating Hyundai’s WRC2 team.

[cali]

And soon Toyota is out with their Rally2 car... As in Estonia they say it was a business move and nothing else

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[manthey]

Yes, RedGrey started operating Hyundai’s WRC2 team.So is RedGrey so important for the development of his actual career and post-career? Sounds to me it would create a team in the wake/evolution of TMR or a concrete competitor for MSport

[AnttiL]

So is RedGrey so important for the development of his actual career and post-career? Sounds to me it would create a team in the wake/evolution of TMR or a concrete competitor for MSport

Competitor for M-Sport? So they would get together with a car manufacturer and start building rally cars for all classes, including Rally1? I doubt it. But maybe on a smaller scale they could be a competitor to Printsport/TGS who helps private customers run their rally cars; or being a competitor to Toksport or something like they've done with Hyundai, a sub-contractor for a factory team. But that won't be Hyundai anymore, will it be Toyota when their Rally2 project starts? For sure if Tänak goes to drive with M-Sport, RedGrey has no part in that contract, what RedGrey does is M-Sport's core usiness and they don't need a sub-contractor in that field.

[AMSS]

Competitor for M-Sport? So they would get together with a car manufacturer and start building rally cars for all classes, including Rally1? I doubt it. But maybe on a smaller scale they could be a competitor to Printsport/TGS who helps private customers run their rally cars; or being a competitor to Toksport or something like they've done with Hyundai, a sub-contractor for a factory team. But that won't be Hyundai anymore, will it be Toyota when their Rally2 project starts? For sure if Tänak goes to drive with M-Sport, RedGrey has no part in that contract, what RedGrey does is M-Sport's core usiness and they don't need a sub-contractor in that field.

On a side note regarding the subject, according to eWRC 93 Rally 2 Fiestas are on the market, and again based on Skoda press releases they already have 150 pre-orders for the new Skoda Rally 2, this must be the biggest mistake done at M-sport by far to not have put enough effort on the Rally 2 car which should be their money maker. Why it`s not on level with Skoda I don`t know but but they should have put a lot more effort on that car

[cali]

On a side note regarding the subject, according to eWRC 93 Rally 2 Fiestas are on the market, and again based on Skoda press releases they already have 150 pre-orders for the new Skoda Rally 2, this must be the biggest mistake done at M-sport by far to not have put enough effort on the Rally 2 car which should be their money maker. Why it`s not on level with Skoda I don`t know but but they should have put a lot more effort on that car

It's really a mystery to me or they have thrown in the towel because Skoda is too strong. Can't understand really.

[doubled1978]

On a side note regarding the subject, according to eWRC 93 Rally 2 Fiestas are on the market, and again based on Skoda press releases they already have 150 pre-orders for the new Skoda Rally 2, this must be the biggest mistake done at M-sport by far to not have put enough effort on the Rally 2 car which should be their money maker. Why it`s not on level with Skoda I don`t know but but they should have put a lot more effort on that car

I agree, it seems a bit of a mystery as to why they haven’t managed to get that car up to the required level.
The previous car was such a good money earner for them it seems a strange mistake.

[Humber]

Was M-Sport's development budget of the Fiesta Rally 2 reduced by the money required to be put into the WRC at the time the Rally2 was made? Dilution of the engineering/ design team with the Bentley GT program also running? Now there is the Dakar Ford Ranger project as well.
Skoda R5 made a total of 405, Rally 2 evo 223 made
Ford Fiesta R5 294 made, Rally 2 93 made
Hyundai r5 i20 107, i20 N Rally 2 40

[wyler]

r5 was the cow, rally2 was a bit timely wrong until the new fia board election and a clear path on regulations. now is way clearer, and the time is ok for the new breed of rally2. i think m-sport will arrive there after milking rally3 monopoly. point was to understand if rally2 was going mild hybrid or not.

[macebig]

Fiesta is officially done as a model next year. It's been rumoured for a long time, so it made little sense to invest in a platform that will be done soon. Would think a smaller than the Puma SUV replaces the Fiesta in Ford's range and that will be M-Sport's new Rally 2 car.

[Eli]

Fiesta is officially done as a model next year. It's been rumoured for a long time, so it made little sense to invest in a platform that will be done soon. Would think a smaller than the Puma SUV replaces the Fiesta in Ford's range and that will be M-Sport's new Rally 2 car.

Speaking of the devil: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ford-fiesta-production-set-end-next-year?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=

[seb_sh]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/we-can-have-even-14-drivers-hyundais-driver-update/

Neuville's friend is unsurprisingly rumored to be part of the team next year. That means they just need one or two drivers to share the 3rd car with Sordo.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/hyundain-wrc-tallin-kuskitilanteesta-uusi-tieto/

Sordo will have eight rallies next year according to Marca magazine

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fiesta is officially done as a model next year. It's been rumoured for a long time, so it made little sense to invest in a platform that will be done soon. Would think a smaller than the Puma SUV replaces the Fiesta in Ford's range and that will be M-Sport's new Rally 2 car.

Ford are going for an all-electric range of cars and the EV Puma will be based on the platform of the Transit van, so not small !

There is no story of a small car replacing the Fiesta so I dont see where a new Rally2 car is coming from for M-Sport. That's unless they switch to another manufacturer...

[AnttiL]

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mm-rallissa-kuohuu-esapekka-lappi-sai-tarjouksen-hyundailta/8557208#gs.g9jq1x

Lappi with an offer from Hyundai :D

[seb_sh]

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mm-rallissa-kuohuu-esapekka-lappi-sai-tarjouksen-hyundailta/8557208#gs.g9jq1x

Lappi with an offer from Hyundai :D

Silly season! :)

[TypeR]

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mm-rallissa-kuohuu-esapekka-lappi-sai-tarjouksen-hyundailta/8557208#gs.g9jq1x

Lappi with an offer from Hyundai :D

Didn't Lappi say in one interview basially that he would rather stay at home than drive with Hyundai?



But afterall.. if there is no place in Toyota, I think one would change mind :D

[mknight]

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mm-rallissa-kuohuu-esapekka-lappi-sai-tarjouksen-hyundailta/8557208#gs.g9jq1x

Lappi with an offer from Hyundai :D

How serious is this site? Cause reading this I wonder:



They definitely don't have drivers for fast gravel rallies. Andreas Mikkelsen is one option, but he already got his chance and nothing came of it.


Manu title and multiple podiums is nothing?

[cali]

How serious is this site? Cause reading this I wonder:



Manu title and multiple podiums is nothing?It's quite serious site actually

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Rallyest]

How serious is this site? Cause reading this I wonder:



Manu title and multiple podiums is nothing?

Nothing against Lappi personally, really like him, but with a sentence like that, his own season at toyota this year is pretty much nothing also

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If its a full-time contract then he must be interested. Or is he happy to be a part-timer now with no more ambition?

[JLunen]

Lappi is selling his GR Yaris road car. Put it on sale 2 days ago... hmm...

[TypeR]

Lappi is selling his GR Yaris road car. Put it on sale 2 days ago... hmm...

let's help him sell the car :)

https://www.nettiauto.com/toyota/gr-yaris/13216539

[janneppi]

Yesterday or the day before someone here wondered about weird Finnish sense of humor. I think Lappi is showing it big time.

Sent from my Takapalk.

[bandit12]

It was i, Leclerc!

[seb_sh]

So to keep the overview of the rumors: Sordo 8 rallies, Mikkelsen, Evans not available but Lappi is selling his Toyota hmm...

[skarderud]

Add Paddon into the mix too.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[er88]

If Hyundai offer Lappi a full season he would surely take it? Probably the best option for them.

Then Sordo can share with Mikkelsen or Suninen. Question is, what driver is best suited to the events like Sweden, Estonia, Finland etc that Sordo won't do. (the actual best driver for that would be Breen, and a Breen/Sordo share has worked). If Tanak goes to Msport, Breen could be kicked and might have to settle for a part time Hyundai gig.

[flat_right]

An interview with Moncet who which gives us more details about Tänak's departure (I'm quoting Estonian site which is quoting some French news site)

https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120090600/pettunud-hyundai-tiimipealik-moncet-tanak-ei-selgitanud-meile-oma-lahkumise-pohjusi

*Tänak let Hyundai know before the RACC
*Tänak weighed his decision for a very long time
*Tänak was very resolute and there was no chance changing his mind. Didn't give any concrete reasons and said the same thing that he is at a stage of his career where he needs to embark on a new challenge.
*Tänak wasn't easy to work with but he was very demanding and detail oriented, wanted to understand everything.
*Doesn't know what will Ott do and Hyundai's driver options depend on what he will do next (if he doesn't retire)
*At the moment Moncet rules out that they will continue with only one driver who is doing a full season.

[mknight]

, what driver is best suited to the events like Sweden, Estonia, Finland etc that Sordo won't do. (the actual best driver for that would be Breen, and a Breen/Sordo share has worked)

This season has clearly shown Breen is best driver for those events ....oh wait.

Anyway, sometimes it is rather amazing how recent vs past results get weighted to the extreme.

Recently we see Sordo winning one stage by good margin in Spain and we get people saying it shows he should drive full season. On the other end of spectra people start pulling up Meeke who hasn't driven anything for years and even managed to crash on those very few starts he had.

Some reasonable balance should be maintained.

Breen was clearly best choice a year ago, right now it is not a clear pick and no guarantee of good results.

[Danny0405]

*Doesn't know what will Ott do and Hyundai's driver options depend on what he will do next (if he doesn't retire)

Message pretty clear: they are waiting to see if Toyota hires him which would mean Lappi or Evans should be available.


*At the moment Moncet rules out that they will continue with only one driver who is doing a full season.

Not a good option in my opinion: yeah, to attract Lappi or Evans, they will probably need to give a full season job.
But if Toyota remains like this, I don’t think any other driver on the market can perform on full-time seat; road position is probably the best they can play with only Neuville being full-time.

[er88]

This season has clearly shown Breen is best driver for those events ....oh wait.

Anyway, sometimes it is rather amazing how recent vs past results get weighted to the extreme.

Recently we see Sordo winning one stage by good margin in Spain and we get people saying it shows he should drive full season. On the other end of spectra people start pulling up Meeke who hasn't driven anything for years and even managed to crash on those very few starts he had.

Some reasonable balance should be maintained.

Breen was clearly best choice a year ago, right now it is not a clear pick and no guarantee of good results.Give over....

Breen has the best recent results & pace on those sort of events. A poor season this year doesn't change that. He's also got the most recent (& good) experience of sharing a wrc car with Sordo and doing well with a part time season.

Unless you want to argue Mikkelsen, Suninen, Paddon, Meeke, Ostberg etc would be a better fit to share a car with Sordo?

It's probably a moot point anyway if Breen is kept on at Msport.

[AnttiL]

We can look at Breen, Lappi, Suninen and Mikkelsen from the past four years but their programs and cars have varied a lot. The results in the Fiesta WRC weren't comparable, and partially some drivers have been in WRC2.

2019
Sweden
1. Tänak
2. Lappi
3. Neuville
4. Mikkelsen
DNF Suninen (crashed)
DNS Breen

Chile
1. Tänak
2. Ogier
3. Loeb
5. Suninen (Fiesta)
6. Lappi
7. Mikkelsen
DNS Breen

Finland
1. Tänak
2. Lappi
3. Latvala
4. Mikkelsen
7. Breen (let Neuville past, would have been 6th)
8. Suninen (Fiesta)

Wales
1. Tänak
2. Neuville
3. Ogier
6. Mikkelsen
8. Breen (rolled)
27. Lappi (crashed, super rally)
DNF Suninen

2020
Sweden
1. Evans
2. Tänak
3. Rovanperä
5. Lappi (Fiesta)
7. Breen
8. Suninen (Fiesta)
DNS Mikkelsen

Estonia
1. Tänak
2. Breen
3. Ogier
6. Suninen (Fiesta)
7. Lappi (Fiesta)
DNS Mikkelsen

2021
Arctic
1. Tänak
2. Rovanperä
3. Neuville
4. Breen
8. Suninen (Fiesta)
RC2 1. Lappi
RC2 2. Mikkelsen

Estonia
1. Rovanperä
2. Breen
3. Neuville
6. Suninen
RC2 2. Mikkelsen
DNS Lappi

Finland
1. Evans
2. Tänak
3. Breen
4. Lappi (with heavier and underpowered car)
RC2 1. Suninen
DNS Mikkelsen

2022
Sweden
1. Rovanperä
2. Neuville
3. Lappi
RC2 1. Mikkelsen
36. Breen (crashed, super rally)
DNS Mikkelsen
DNS Suninen

Estonia
1. Rovanperä
2. Evans
3. Tänak
6. Lappi (puncture)
RC2 1. Mikkelsen
RC2 2. Suninen
30. Breen (crashed, super rally)

Finland
1. Tänak
2. Rovanperä
3. Lappi
32. Breen (crashed, super rally)
DSQ Suninen (would have won RC2 but bumper too light)
DNS Mikkelsen

Also we notice that Neuville has taken several podiums in these events.

Mikkelsen and Suninen have no podiums in these events, but then again they have good results in WRC2 from the very recent years.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TBH I dont think it's worth discussing until we find out what Tanak is going to do in 2023.

If he goes to Toyota then it doesnt matter who Hyundai get they wont be able to compete.

[Loikam]

Antti, you have small typo - 2020 Sweden podium was: Evans, Tänak, Rovanperä :)

[skarderud]

TBH I dont think it's worth discussing until we find out what Tanak is going to do in 2023.

If he goes to Toyota then it doesnt matter who Hyundai get they wont be able to compete.Some rumours subaru going to present something at Rally Japan, can this be Tänaks new project? One year of to test a new car? And Märtin as a teamboss?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[flat_right]

Some rumours subaru going to present something at Rally Japan, can this be Tänaks new project? One year of to test a new car? And Märtin as a teamboss?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

I haven't heard any Subaru rumors but I really doubt that Tänak has any interest doing this project unless he decides to retire. He wants to win and drive a car that is capable of winning. And I'm sure Tänak is tired of pushing engineers to develop a car to his liking. He got this experience already in the past 3 years :) And also all new cars have amazing quality in the beginning so yeah... doubt.

[TypeR]

He wants to win and drive a car that is capable of winning. And I'm sure Tänak is tired of pushing engineers to develop a car to his liking. He got this experience already in the past 3 years :) And also all new cars have amazing quality in the beginning so yeah... doubt.
I am thinking the same. Why waste another years in hope of getting the car right and fast.

I hope that Toyota's news in Japan isn't only their Rally2 car.. :)

[AnttiL]

And I'm sure Tänak is tired of pushing engineers to develop a car to his liking. He got this experience already in the past 3 years :).

But it would be a different game to be the lead developer and no1 driver in the team, compared to coming to a team with long-time no1 driver with his own weird driving style

[EstWRC]

I hope that Toyota's news in Japan isn't only their Rally2 car.. :)

“And to have somebody like [Juha] Kankkunen driving on some stages is perfect. There’s even talk that somebody else might be getting behind the wheel… Let’s see.”


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyotas-rally2-yaris-to-break-cover-at-rally-japan/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

“And to have somebody like [Juha] Kankkunen driving on some stages is perfect. There’s even talk that somebody else might be getting behind the wheel… Let’s see.”


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyotas-rally2-yaris-to-break-cover-at-rally-japan/

The 'new challenge' for Tanak is to develop the Yaris Rally2 ?

[flat_right]

But it would be a different game to be the lead developer and no1 driver in the team, compared to coming to a team with long-time no1 driver with his own weird driving style

Game is still the same (development) as there is no guarantee that engineers can do it the way he likes it + the time factor (testing, feedback, applying the changes etc). My point was that IMHO Tänak wants to win now and drive a car that is more suitable for his liking. If he will retire, sure, it can be an option.

[JLunen]

The 'new challenge' for Tanak is to develop the Yaris Rally2 ?

I doubt that Tänak's Hyundai contract allows him to do anything with a Toyota until the dust in Japan has settled. Also, Tommi Mäkinen is going to drive the hydrogen Yaris in the SSS in Japan. Dunno if he tries the Rally2 as well.

[AnttiL]

The 'new challenge' for Tanak is to develop the Yaris Rally2 ?

or maybe brewing coffee for the team at the service paddock?

or maybe no?

[manthey]

I haven't heard any Subaru rumors but I really doubt that Tänak has any interest doing this project unless he decides to retire. He wants to win and drive a car that is capable of winning. And I'm sure Tänak is tired of pushing engineers to develop a car to his liking. He got this experience already in the past 3 years :) And also all new cars have amazing quality in the beginning so yeah... doubt.Even if possibile, which car from Subaru? Still Impreza?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

or maybe brewing coffee for the team at the service paddock?

or maybe no?

Or as David Evans mooted...

'Maybe there’s one more team we haven’t considered: Red Grey. His own team, the team he shares with Markko Märtin.

Tänak’s always been clear that he wants to be more hands on with his own team in the future. Maybe the future’s here and now.'

[Managarium]

Even if possibile, which car from Subaru? Still Impreza?

Isn't Impreza too big?
They are all using B segment cars or eleveted B segment car.
Are there any rules about car lenght?

[Gregor-y]

"Subaru is dead" - Pentti Airikkala

[AnttiL]

Or as David Evans mooted...

'Maybe there’s one more team we haven’t considered: Red Grey. His own team, the team he shares with Markko Märtin.

Tänak’s always been clear that he wants to be more hands on with his own team in the future. Maybe the future’s here and now.'

Yeah. This essentially means retiring from WRC and just doing business by renting Rally2 cars and helping younger drivers and spending as much time with the family as needed. But no way his new challenge is to be a Rally2 development driver for Toyota.

[AnttiL]

Isn't Impreza too big?
They are all using B segment cars or eleveted B segment car.
Are there any rules about car lenght?

You can scale the model when making a Rally1 car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yeah. This essentially means retiring from WRC and just doing business by renting Rally2 cars and helping younger drivers and spending as much time with the family as needed. But no way his new challenge is to be a Rally2 development driver for Toyota.

On DF they were even talking about Red Grey as a private WRC team running Rally1 Puma's ! :D

[AnttiL]

On DF they were even talking about Red Grey as a private WRC team running Rally1 Puma's ! :D

And in the podcast they realized it wouldn't make any sense, it would be better to just rent from M-Sport.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And in the podcast they realized it wouldn't make any sense, it would be better to just rent from M-Sport.

And if he wants more time with his family, then running a team would be way more work.

But another idea they mentioned made sense... to drive a part-programme with M-Sport. This would be more financially viable for the team and let Tanak just drive his favourite rallies or only European events.

[AnttiL]

And if he wants more time with his family, then running a team would be way more work.

But another idea they mentioned made sense... to drive a part-programme with M-Sport. This would be more financially viable for the team and let Tanak just drive his favourite rallies or only European events.

And also speculated that he could share the Toyota with Ogier...that would be more likely.

[AnttiL]

https://jkleinonen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/PET%20-%20HYUNDAI/IMG_4915.jpg?img=img2048

Someone RAUTIO sponsored was testing the car...

[Eli]

https://jkleinonen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/PET%20-%20HYUNDAI/IMG_4915.jpg?img=img2048

Someone RAUTIO sponsored was testing the car...

Is this in Finland? cause I gotta say, the terrain resembles Wales a little. Also, is that Suninen?

[EstWRC]

Nice. Tänak made a way for Egon Kaur :D

[TypeR]

https://jkleinonen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/PET+-+HYUNDAI/
Other photos here.. can't see regular car's plates very well, but seems to start with EU(blue) badge...so Finland very likely it is

[AnttiL]

https://jkleinonen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/PET+-+HYUNDAI/
Other photos here.. can't see regular car's plates very well, but seems to start with EU(blue) badge...so Finland very likely it is

It's Hyundai's official test area, yes. I was there this summer.

[Eli]

Gravel testing now? That's a bit odd, it's not like we have Wales in a couple of weeks time.

[AnttiL]

Gravel testing now? That's a bit odd, it's not like we have Wales in a couple of weeks time.

development testing, to homologate new parts. Last chance to do so before winter. Also possibly for a new driver to try the car...

[Eli]

development testing, to homologate new parts. Last chance to do so before winter. Also possibly for a new driver to try the car...

The new driver part I understand, just the gravel testing seemed odd so thanks for clearing that ;)

[AnttiL]

Also: they don't have test days for Rally Japan, only for European events. And that area in Finland is the only place where they can do development testing.

[Managarium]

You can scale the model when making a Rally1 car.

OK I didn't know that.
But... if you want a Rally1 car, you have to produce at least 25000 road cars to homologate, right?
Does Subaru have money to develop a new road car?
In my opinion, if there are some chances for Subaru to join WRC, for me it makes more sense to be based on BRZ.

[Managarium]

Could it be a test driver?

Does Hyundai even have a test driver like Wilson in M-Sport or Hänninen in Toyota?

[Tauri_J]

Has to be Suninen

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Could it be a test driver?

Does Hyundai even have a test driver like Wilson in M-Sport or Hänninen in Toyota?

Or a new driver testing and learning the Rally1 car himself if its Suninen as rumoured.

[Scaha]

By the helmet it is Suninen.

[wyler]

https://jkleinonen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/PET%20-%20HYUNDAI/IMG_4915.jpg?img=img2048



is that a new rear wing?

[AnttiL]

is that a new rear wing?

Yes

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/suninen-completes-his-first-ever-rally1-test/
Dirtfish confirms.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Part-time seat for Suninen acc to this and 'Tanak's seat' is filled and rumoured to be Mikkelsen.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/e489fd5f-aae6-4c7e-b97f-6d618ce3d014

[doubled1978]

Lappi to Hyundai….

[macebig]

So, Hyundai's line up appears to be Neuville, Lappi, Suninen and Sordo (shared 3rd car).

[mousti]

Didn't expect this. So Mikkelsen chances gets very slim again for a Rally1 seat.

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[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lappi-set-to-join-hyundai-in-2023/

[doubled1978]

Interesting that the article mentions that they have also reached out to Meeke about a part time return…could be 4 drivers across 2 cars with Neuville being the only constant.

[Eli]

Guess that explains why we haven’t seen Lappi arriving in Japan with Toyota today.

[seb_sh]

Hehehe so finally him selling the Yaris was the sign. Fun one!

So Mikkelsen can stay home if even now he can't get a drive.

Also does this mean Tanak to Toyota?

[EstWRC]

Things staring to fall in place

I expected Evans to be the one who moves and Tänak takes his seat

I guess part time season also for Tänak then if he moves to Toyota and developing the rally2 ?

Interesting times

[Eli]

Hehehe so finally him selling the Yaris was the sign. Fun one!

So Mikkelsen can stay home if even now he can't get a drive.

Also does this mean Tanak to Toyota?

I think it’s that since if he were to retire he’d announce it already. And he still has unfinished business with Akio Toyoda at the end of Rally Japan.

[seb_sh]

Dirtfish site slow for you too ?

[EstWRC]

Dirtfish site slow for you too ?

Yes. Doesn’t open for me

[Eli]

I expected Evans to be the one who moves and Tänak takes his seat

I guess part time season also for Tänak then if he moves to Toyota and developing the rally2 ?

I think they’re trying to get the fastest drivers they can and switch between them so they won’t crash, only way to beat Toyota would be to snatch Ogier under their feet and convince him in doing a full season.

[seb_sh]

Theoretically they can go full road position optimisation for the 3rd car with 3 or 4 drivers. But we've seen the hybrids are a bit harder to get used to so is that wise?

[EstWRC]

Lol Motorsport Italy is writing that Breen is also returning https://it-motorsport-com.translate.goog/wrc/news/wrc-hyundai-2023-arriva-lappi-e-torna-breen-/10394680/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=et&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[seb_sh]

Lol Motorsport Italy is writing that Breen is also returning https://it-motorsport-com.translate.goog/wrc/news/wrc-hyundai-2023-arriva-lappi-e-torna-breen-/10394680/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=et&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Ok 5 drivers sharing the 3rd car! Sordo Suninen Mikkelsen Meeke and Breen

[cali]

Ok 5 drivers sharing the 3rd car! Sordo Suninen Mikkelsen Meeke and Breen

I bet you can find few more drivers :D

[M3 Jambo]

Lappi to Hyundai https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lappi-set-to-join-hyundai-in-2023/

[seb_sh]

I bet you can find few more drivers :D

Of course, Latvala, Loeb, Fourmaux, Loubet could be available. So Sordo can drive 8 and then 1 each for the rest.

[mknight]

2nd time Lappi goes from seemingly good spot at Toyota to a risky "better" spot at different team. Quite interesting given his Citroen experience. Was expecting Evans to be the fulltime driver.

Sounds like Tanak part time at Toyota then.

Car sharing at Hyundai could be just about anyone. Only certainty is that Sordo won't be doing full season.

[lankey555]

Maybe Meeke will take Lappis part time drive at Toyota

[focus206]

Lol Motorsport Italy is writing that Breen is also returning https://it-motorsport-com.translate.goog/wrc/news/wrc-hyundai-2023-arriva-lappi-e-torna-breen-/10394680/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=et&_x_tr_pto=wapp

written by the "credible" guy who keeps calling Breen northern irishman because he confuses him with Meeke...

[mknight]

What if Toyota lost Lappi because they were too slow waiting for Japan blessing the lineup and in the meantime he or Hyundai called each other?

Guess we should know when Toyota lineup is announced. If it's Tanak then Toyota gained, anything else would be a loss.

[Eli]

What if Toyota lost Lappi because they were too slow waiting for Japan blessing the lineup and in the meantime he or Hyundai called each other?

Guess we should know when Toyota lineup is announced. If it's Tanak then Toyota gained, anything else would be a loss.

I think Latvala wanted Lappi (just guessing) but he’s not the one to call those shots, and Toyota decided they want Tanak back, guess we’ll know soon enough, maybe tomorrow (wishful thinking) Hyundai will officially announce something so at least one piece of the puzzle will be in place.

[AndersX]

I say: it looks obvious - Tanak and Ogier will share the car, that will allow Ott to focus on private matters as a priority and stay sharp for possible full time return in 2024 or 2025. I doubt he has decided that it was enough with 1 title.

[Danny0405]

Lappi is probably the best Hyundai could hope with Tanak leaving, considering Evans is under contract. Strange to see Lappi leaving but the situation was not that clear at Toyota, maybe it makes the difference with a straightforward full-time offer from Hyundai. Maybe some pressure in the Japanese side for Katsuta or the discussion about Tanak within the organization. And if Tanak not going to Toyota, it’s the best way to balance a bit the manufacturers.

Let’s see then for the 3rd driver but Sordo/Breen or Sordo/Mikkelsen would be the best.
Let’s see also how Toyota will counter this.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mm-rallissa-kuohuu-esapekka-lappi-sai-tarjouksen-hyundailta/8557208#gs.g9jq1x

Lappi with an offer from Hyundai :D

Still laughing Antti ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If its a full-time contract then he must be interested.

And Lappi clearly was !

[seb_sh]

In case there's any doubt I'm having quite some fun with this silly season ;)

[Rallyest]

So when it will be confirmed that Lappi joins Hyundai, then he will be eating his own words about the remark he made rather sitting at home before driving for hyundai

[cali]

So when it will be confirmed that Lappi joins Hyundai, then he will be eating his own words about the remark he made rather sitting at home before driving for hyundaiI think that was said on purpose to get the heat off from linking him to Hyundai.

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[Rallyest]

I think that was said on purpose to get the heat off from linking him to Hyundai.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

Havent thought of it like that, maybe it makes sense now that you point it out

[AnttiL]

Still laughing Antti ?

Yeah I’m happy thanks for asking :)

[TypeR]

According to Motorsport Italy, Breen returns to Hyundai

https://it.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-hyundai-2023-arriva-lappi-e-torna-breen-/10394680/

[meh]

If all rumors related to Suninen, Lappi and Breen to Hyundai, I guess there is no place for Sordo then. In case Sordo actually wants to drive next season, I can not see any of the "new ones" do (clearly) better than Sordo.

... and I can already hear in my head Lappi's stage end a-bit-wining-toned-interviews, "yaa, yaa, it is like it is, I can not do any better".

[mknight]

According to Motorsport Italy, Breen returns to Hyundai

https://it.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-hyundai-2023-arriva-lappi-e-torna-breen-/10394680/

This was posted yesterday ( https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?37232-Hyundai-WRT&p=1312379&viewfull=1#post1312379 ) with people doubting the credibility.

I have no idea, lots of rumors that turned out completely opposite lately.

-------------------

Just noted that Lappi has basically spend only 1 year at all teams so far in his WRC career, apart from part time 2017+2018 and by next year he would have been in all of them.

[TWRC]

As for Lappi, his situation is twofold I think. On one hand, with possibly Tänak arriving and Evans staying, air got very thin around him at Toyota regarding possibilities. Also, he is 31, not old, but not getting younger, and maybe he wants to make most of the opportunities he can get. Also, if he departs Toyota on good terms, there can always be a road back.

[er88]

Lappi to Hyundai makes sense on both sides. He was the best attainable driver they could get, and he wasn't getting a full season at Toyota while Ogier is still kicking around.

[AnttiL]

Lappi to Hyundai makes sense on both sides. He was the best attainable driver they could get, and he wasn't getting a full season at Toyota while Ogier is still kicking around.

Some sources say Lappi wouldn't have gotten even a half season at Toyota anymore

[mknight]

Some sources say Lappi wouldn't have gotten even a half season at Toyota anymore

Which (if true) could be both due to Tanak (part or fulltime) or due to Katsuta being the point-scorer when Ogier is not driving.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I was really hoping Meeke would return to the sport but in saying that... I hope Lappi doesn'tt burn himself like what happened jumping ship to Citroen... then really loosing his driving options coming back to Toyota... Better not be a cycle again!

[Managarium]

I was really hoping Meeke would return to the sport but in saying that... I hope Lappi doesn'tt burn himself like what happened jumping ship to Citroen... then really loosing his driving options coming back to Toyota... Better not be a cycle again!

In his own words, Lappi said that he went to Citroen, because he knew that he would never be a no.1 driver in Toyota.
His plan was to be a no.1 driver in Citroen. As it was planned, Ogier would drive two seasons, ther retire and Lappi would continue as team leader.
And we all knew what happened...

[AnttiL]

In his own words, Lappi said that he went to Citroen, because he knew that he would never be a no.1 driver in Toyota.
His plan was to be a no.1 driver in Citroen. As it was planned, Ogier would drive two seasons, ther retire and Lappi would continue as team leader.
And we all knew what happened...

Partly true. Meeke was fired in May 2018, Lappi was offered a Citroen contract already in June 2018. Then he made his decision after having seen Ostberg's pace in Finland 2018. He thought he would be Citroen's no1 driver in 2019 with Breen and Östberg. Then came Ogier and things changed. I don't think Lappi was going to wait two years at Citroen to be no1 driver.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anyone have access to this site ?

https://www.parcferme.no/vm-kontrakten-var-i-boks-sa-mistet-andreas-kontakten-med-fabrikkteamet/172582

According to Andreas Mikkelsen, he was promised at least six races for Hyundai's factory team in 2023. Then suddenly there was silence at the other end of the phone...

[skarderud]

Yes, i have.
He had a contract for 6 races, they been agreed for "a while", just missing the signature.
Suddenly Hyundai stop answering the phone, and he get a sms under laustitz rallye that he wasnt wanted.

Something has happened, for sure.

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