Wrc Deutschland 2017

[Rally Power]

Something I forgot to mention in my "report". Talked to several groups of French spectators. They all seemed to hate Ogier... He is really not popular in France I think.

Hate is maybe a too strong word, but there’s no doubt that Loeb is much more popular than Ogier in France. The reason is simple: VW is locally considered as the biggest menace to the French car industry and the huge number of jobs it generates. Besides, there was a strong national pride from Loeb being a dominant driver in WRC at the wheel of a French car, and Ogier was seen as his successor. His leave to VW was a big shock and many still see it as a betrayal...anyway, that’s why is not hard to believe that Ogier will try to get back to Citroen before ending his career: he needs the love and recognition of his ‘Cocorico’ compatriots!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hate is maybe a too strong word, but there’s no doubt that Loeb is much more popular than Ogier in France. The reason is simple: VW is locally considered as the biggest menace to the French car industry and the huge number of jobs it generates. Besides, there was a strong national pride from Loeb being a dominant driver in WRC at the wheel of a French car, and Ogier was seen as his successor. His leave to VW was a big shock and many still see it as a betrayal...anyway, that’s why is not hard to believe that Ogier will try to get back to Citroen before ending his career: he needs the love and recognition of his ‘Cocorico’ compatriots!

Interesting info.

Funny, I started to think of Ogier as German when he was with VW. To me he just seemed to lose any Frenchness with that ultra-professionalism that the team had...

[dupanton]

Hate is maybe a too strong word, but there’s no doubt that Loeb is much more popular than Ogier in France. The reason is simple: VW is locally considered as the biggest menace to the French car industry and the huge number of jobs it generates. Besides, there was a strong national pride from Loeb being a dominant driver in WRC at the wheel of a French car, and Ogier was seen as his successor. His leave to VW was a big shock and many still see it as a betrayal...anyway, that’s why is not hard to believe that Ogier will try to get back to Citroen before ending his career: he needs the love and recognition of his ‘Cocorico’ compatriots!

The people I talked too, really hated him. Mainly for the things he says about other drivers, mainly Loeb.

[Mintexmemory]

The people I talked too, really hated him. Mainly for the things he says about other drivers, mainly Loeb.
Now that's interesting - this forum has a number of anti- Ogier members, the main reason being his perceive 'moaning'. I can't recall him criticising other drivers or bad mouthing Loeb. However, if the French are getting their info from the French sports press then I wouldn't be surprised. L'Equipe especially is a journal that never let's the facts get in the way of the story they want to publish. Remember which country invented chauvinism!

[focus206]

I've also heard multiple times (also in person by a couple of French fans) that Ogier is not that popular in France, generally speaking. But in my opinion it has much less to do with the "French driver who betrays a French manufacturer to go to a German one" and more to do with Ogier simply having a not very likeable personality, at least compared to Loeb.

[dimviii]

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2017/jpo_2000047-lappi-ndz.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2017/jpo_2000057-evans-pn.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2017/jpo_5000027-breen-ndz.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2017/jpo_9000033-neuville-test.jpg

[Rally Power]

I've also heard multiple times (also in person by a couple of French fans) that Ogier is not that popular in France, generally speaking. But in my opinion it has much less to do with the "French driver who betrays a French manufacturer to go to a German one" and more to do with Ogier simply having a not very likeable personality, at least compared to Loeb.

The ‘anti Ogier’ wave only started after he leaved Citroen; when he was there many found entertaining to see him challenging Loeb and praised Quesnel for not imposing team orders, which later became fatal for both him and Ogier.

Anyway, the local antipathy over Ogier will certainly go away once Ogier starts winning again on a Citroen…

[focus206]

The ‘anti Ogier’ wave only started after he leaved Citroen; when he was there many found entertaining to see him challenging Loeb and praised Quesnel for not imposing team orders, which later became fatal for both him and Ogier.

Anyway, the local antipathy over Ogier will certainly go away once Ogier starts winning again on a Citroen…

Hmm I'd say it started when the public "got to know him better" = when he started his moaning, in his Citroen Junior Team years he didn't have many reflectors pointing at him nor he was fighting for championships. In my opinion you value too much this sense of patriotism, plenty of fans (including myself) don't care much about the little flags on the side windows of the cars. If Ogier moves to Citroen he'll for sure win back some French fans (and obviously Citroen fans who cheer for Citroen no matter the drivers) but if he won't change his attitude I doubt that many fans will think "I don't like him but he's French".

[focus206]

quite stupid to be angry he left a team to go to another one. But in all fairness, he does not have a like-able personality like Loeb? Loeb has no personality and is very mono toned and serious all the time.

I'm not saying Loeb has a particular or exciting personality, it's rather "neutral" as you say, I'm saying that many fans believe Ogier doesn't have a very likeable one.

[Hartusvuori]

This was our sixth consecutive visit to Rally Germany, so I think it's safe to say we really like this event. I would rate this visit as the second best - as nothing will challenge the what-the-fakkedness of 2014. We appreciated the new HQ and liked the fact of having new stages to recce for runki places.

We arrived early Tuesday. We recced three stages and visired shakedown recce start. On Wednesday we did Mosel stages as well as Losheim, Wadern und Freisen + rerun of Römerstrasse. On Römerstrasse we noticed a junction to a main road that made a jump. There were marks of a recce crash on the ditch. Later we learned crews were stopped at the junction and they queued to cross for the mainroad. This must've made it difficult for getting the pacenote correct. This proved correct on Saturday as two Adams rolled and four cars managed to shoot over the ditch without rolling. Highly entertaining place with over a minute view of the cars, four runki places, a bar, a live band and a swimming pool. This will be a future crowd pleaser.

On Thursday we sneaked 1 km into shakedown to two muddy and slippery corners. It was faster than expected and thus very nice. A few moments from Bonato and Pieniazek. Even if we stayed some 15 minutes walk from service park, we didn't feel like visiting it. Instead taking it easy before heading to Saarbrücken where we had a table waiting and the city stage. It might have looked utterly pointless on telly, but live amidst a crowd of thousands, a bit tipsy, it was full on entertainment. I like laps on city stages and many cars at one look. I did saw Meeke's runki from the distance.

Friday was the only day not that special. Mainly due to that biblical rain and secondly due to not much of action for us. We stayed at Mittelmosel. First a two times left after a long flat out section. Nothing. For second run I walked to the vineyards, but when it kept raining heavily, I chose to go for the last left in the woods where Paddon had his high speed spin last year. Nothing.

Saturday's actions I already described. We did Platte 2 shortly between Römerstrasse runs, met no traffic.

On Sunday we went to Sankt Wendeler Land to a fast right that tightened behind a bush. Our new best friend Jon Armstrong had a heavy spin and one Adam shot the field, otherwise that was it. For second pass, we parked the car at our fewo and walked to the final jump for a quick exit to the airport.

All in all very pleasant six day visit to the event. Maybe next year I would like to see some other events, but for a rallying fan, Germany is always a good option.

My friend's gallery: https://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Rally+Germany+2017/

[dimviii]

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2017/dwi_17-10ger_neuville0015.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2017/dwi_17-10ger_podium0003.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2017/dwi_17-10ger_meeke0016.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2017/dwi_17-10ger_mikkelsen0036.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2017/dwi_17-10ger_breen0008.jpg

[jparker]

That says it all.....

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDHcKAWR_2Q

[Rally Power]

I'm not saying Loeb has a particular or exciting personality, it's rather "neutral" as you say

He wasn’t "neutral" at all when he forced Ogier to leave Citroen…

[dimviii]

He wasn’t "neutral" at all when he forced Ogier to leave Citroen…

Ogier forced himself out of Citroen,in conjuction with Quesnel. Not Loeb.

[Rally Power]

Ogier forced himself out of Citroen,in conjuction with Quesnel. Not Loeb.

There was a clear ‘either he or I’ from Loeb, and it worked fine for him…

Btw, it’s true that Ogier sometimes says arrogant things, but he didn’t oppose to have Latvala as team mate in VW and he’s dealing pretty well with Tanak. People should remind it more often.

[macebig]

To be precise, after Acropolis 2011, Loeb went to Quesnel and told him "It's me or him". Quesnel chose Ogier but was overruled by the higher ups after Germany. And this led to Ogier leaving and Quesnel being ousted from Citroen.

[N.O.T]

To be precise, after Acropolis 2011, Loeb went to Quesnel and told him "It's me or him".

let me guess you are british right ?

http://i.imgur.com/3ZUIkCR.jpg

[Simmi]

Finally got my pictures sorted from a great trip to Germany. Really love these cars in tarmac trim.

Full set here if anyone is interested: https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/albums/72157684426198092/with/36622416521/

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4422/36761632885_dafd31b672_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Y1uYGD)1 (https://flic.kr/p/Y1uYGD) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/36364867560_7b5f3349e2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Xprscb)2 (https://flic.kr/p/Xprscb) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4372/36364867050_403fbf5c82_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Xprs3o)3 (https://flic.kr/p/Xprs3o) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4337/36622419101_eea6259983_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/XNcthZ)4 (https://flic.kr/p/XNcthZ) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4381/36364865500_e566910bbf_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/XprrzE)5 (https://flic.kr/p/XprrzE) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4356/36622416521_b673e345af_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/XNcswv)7 (https://flic.kr/p/XNcswv) by Richard Simpson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94998505@N03/), on Flickr

[macebig]

let me guess you are british right ?

http://i.imgur.com/3ZUIkCR.jpg

Dafni doctors are expecting you, NOT...

[dimviii]

There was a clear ‘either he or I’ from Loeb, and it worked fine for him… .
after all they have happened of course he had all the rights to say that.


Btw, it’s true that Ogier sometimes says arrogant things, but he didn’t oppose to have Latvala as team mate in VW and he’s dealing pretty well with Tanak. People should remind it more often.
neither Loeb had a problem,even with Ogier and sweeping all gravel rallies.And he won.

[Mintexmemory]

Ogier forced himself out of Citroen,in conjuction with Quesnel. Not Loeb.

That is revisionism of such gob-smacking level. So Loeb would have been happy to be equal status and had nothing to do with 'turning down the wick' - yeah right!

[dimviii]

That is revisionism of such gob-smacking level. So Loeb would have been happy to be equal status and had nothing to do with 'turning down the wick' - yeah right!

have I go tto reming you that he beated him fair and square while sweeping all gravel rallies,and while sabotaged from your beloved driver and his clown team manager?

[Mintexmemory]

have I go tto reming you that he beated him fair and square while sweeping all gravel rallies,and while sabotaged from your beloved driver and his clown team manager?
Seems like yours is the injured love Dim!! BUT fair and square - no. Everyone knows that Citroen did not allow anyone to challenge Loeb on a level playing field. He probably would still have beaten Ogier in 2011 and 2012 but he knew the writing was on the wall once he had a better funded opponent so he ran for the hills - rightly so, he had nothing left to prove.

[Rally Power]

Fantastic clip by Races Channel guys: https://youtu.be/dGwKAXtSVwY

[nafpaktos]

@macebig
from your answer i understand that we have one more Greek here

[N.O.T]

@macebig
from your answer i understand that we have one more Greek here

100 says he is british... the autism levels are too high to be greek.

[macebig]

100 says he is british... the autism levels are too high to be greek.

NOT, χαιρετίσματα από την ηλιόλουστη Αθήνα. And for the international members, greetings from the sunny Athens...

[bluuford]

waiting bluuford to tell us some more about this.
Bravo bluuford!!

Well, it was veery long weekend and I headed off to fieldwork and organizing summerschool for students right after Germany (well, I worked from home for Germany), so, I have not had time to see computers since then. So, I will give you some overview here.

This time I was really busy before the rally and I managed to start proper preparations on Tuesday. Well, Germany has been historically very difficult and therefore I had a lot of data and memories from this event and preparations didnt took too much time.. only Wednesday night without sleep:) I can tell that my prognosis table is containing approximately 10 characteristics for each stage. But I wont tell you what are the characteristics;)

So, I had really, realy long Thursday night as the Friday looked very difficult and I had to see all available models, radars, local stations etc. Finally, I can tell you that I was slightly overstimating rain possibility on Friday morning but seems that I have done it before as well. Well, lets say that it was very conservative approach and it worked quite OK as most of the other drivers with lesser safe tyre option and setup made mistakes and lost time. Seems that it is better to start such rally with more conservative approach. I can also tell you that Andreas was leading after first loop thanks to Sordos crash as he got much drirer conditions than other drivers for the last stage and gained a lot of time!

Then came the afternoon. Models actualy showed that it is raining less but on that point I am not using models anymore and just following the development of rain clouds by using actual real-time radars and it was visible that the speed of rain front is slowing down, that means heavy rain for a long time. So, I sent the last update and suggested that conditions will be awful and by looking the weather I would take at least 2 extreme weather tires and at least for the first stage, but luckily I am not the one who is driving;) Ott came out with completely new solution that I had never seen before: 3+3, that even didnt came to my mind but later looked logical. So, everything was as expected and rain stopped maybe 5-10 minutes later than I initially prognosed :) By the way, at around 3PM I discovered that I have not taken breakfast yet :P

In the evening I was already very tired as I had slept couple of hours in two nights. So I slept couple of hours and woke up at 2AM to complete forecast for Saturday and then slept again. Saturday looked a bit easier with some risk of rain in the evening. I also noteded that Baumholder region got much-much less rain than Friday stages, so, harder option with very abrasive roads was quite logical here, I do not know why Hyundai and Citroen chose differently? Well, I know that all teams are also using MeteoFrance forecasts and this time we had a lot of conflicting opinions;) Saturday was generally easy with slightly difficult evening. "Other" forecast was definitely prognosing some rain for 4PM and for the last loop and it looked scary indeed. I looked my previous data and tried to remember what has happened before in this region and based on that I assumed that clouds are lifting and rain will not reach to the stages. It was rather difficult to explain to M-Sport that I did it in my brain and I didnt use models here, but it was easy to eplain for Ott, he asked "soft" or "hard" and gave me 10 minutes, after 8 minutes I replayed "hard" and that was it :) So, no rain appeared there, good :) By the way, I just counted that we sent 79 SMS messages during the rally + a few phonecalls and e-mail twice a day!

Sunday was already like vocation. On Satruday evening there was some more rain and I had to estimate how much roads are drying by the morning. I think I slightly undersestimated the drying effect but it was safe option again , no need to go crazy from that position :)

All in all, very nice rally, very good job by gravecrew, Ott, Martin and the whole team. All the small details worked fine. I can tell you that it took me around 70 hours of work from Wednesday to Sunday, but it was worth it. By the way, as I was working from Estonia, then on Friday afternoon, I went to kindergarten to pick up my youngest child and I was so surprised by the weather.. as my brain was still in German sky :P

[AnttiL]

I can also tell you that Andreas was leading after first loop thanks to Sordos crash as he got much drirer conditions than other drivers for the last stage and gained a lot of time!

Yeh, you can tell that from Lappi's time, he was off the pace on the other stages of the day but on that one he was faster than the others, except Mikkelsen who came after Lappi.

[Simmi]

So cool bluuford. Awesome to be a part of something like that. Us forumers have always been grateful for your insight and now so can say you played a pivotal role in your countryman winning a world rally. Great job!

How long have you been working with Ott on the weather side?

[EstWRC]

since 2012 if am not mistaken.

[dimviii]

Hats off https://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/smooth/howdy.gif,bluuford,amazing job,what else can I say?
Unbelievable excellent prognosis for somebody who has it as hobby.
I will not forget your prognosis for a particular stage at Acropolis before 4-5 years,that you was very right,even at the time the rain will start/stop.When I say to them that somebody from Estonia give me that prognosis,looked me very strangely,hahaha https://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/oldforum/thumbsup.gif

[Lundefaret]

Fantastic story Bluuford :)

[Mirek]

I will not forget your prognosis for a particular stage at Acropolis before 4-5 years,that you was very right,even at the time the rain will start/stop.When I say to them that somebody from Estonia give me that prognosis,looked me very strangely,hahaha https://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/oldforum/thumbsup.gif

Exactly same experience with Bluuford's prognosis for Barum city stage five or six years back :)

[mknight]

Yeh, you can tell that from Lappi's time, he was off the pace on the other stages of the day but on that one he was faster than the others, except Mikkelsen who came after Lappi.

Clearly these drivers (Lappi, Meeke, Mikkelsen) got an advantage in that stage, it is also visible from vids. However, turning it around it's also visible that this late starters did have a disadvantage on other stages, notably on those in the afternoon. So for whole day combined it's imo impossible to tell what position was better.

Anyway I also wonder why whole Hyundai and Citroen went for full soft for Saturday morning. Very long stage on abrasive tarmac, on wide roads (which dry faster) and with concrete blocks that prevent cutting (and taking wet dirt on the road). That said Citroen drivers who did any kind of cross-setup on Friday were complaining that it's hard to drive, so they prbly didn't want to go 3+2/3.

[bluuford]

since 2012 if am not mistaken.

Since 2011, it was my first forecast via MM-Motorsport, Germany, preparation time was 20 minutes, result is here:
https://ewrc-results.com/results/2369-adac-rallye-deutschland-2011/?s=22299
;)