[WRC] News & Rumours (part V) 2017

[GigiGalliNo1]

Yes! Turkey!

[tommeke_B]

I've watched a few onboards from the Marmaris Rally, if the rally is held there I'm not really thinking of going there. The stages look quite useless for spectating. Very slow, technical, no view at all. Hope they come up with some better stages for the actual WRC event.

[aykutbilir]

I've watched a few onboards from the Marmaris Rally, if the rally is held there I'm not really thinking of going there. The stages look quite useless for spectating. Very slow, technical, no view at all. Hope they come up with some better stages for the actual WRC event.

They will change the route for sure
Last year Marmaris was really sh*t

This years one will give us an idea for WRC for sure!


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[skarderud]

Of political reasons turkey should not be a part of any championship.

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[steve.mandzij]

Of political reasons turkey should not be a part of any championship.

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[JUF]

Of political reasons turkey should not be a part of any championship. Exactly. It's rather ironic to leave Poland for security reasons and move to a country where people are imprisoned without any reason...

[Rrysio]

Exactly. It's rather ironic to leave Poland for security reasons and move to a country where people are imprisoned without any reason...

Security reasons for dropping Poland is only a pretext (or rather the symptom of the underlying root cause) - the real reason is money (as usual).
The money WRC promoter demands from WRC event organizers is significant. Polish Automobile and Motorcycle Federation (PZM) is too poor to afford it (in my opinion it is also heavily incompetent and inefficient in bringing sponsors to remedy the lack of money).

The result is cost saving - unfortunately PZM tries to cut the costs by impacting security. Blaming spectators in Poland is a bullsh*t - event organizers' responsibility is to make sure that it controls thousands of people (including these who don't know how to behave during special stage). It is true that Rally Poland organizer failed miserably on that front. And FIA doesn't help blaming spectators and not the organizer - PZM feels good after such FIA statement and probably won't do anything to improve.

There are issues with spectators on every rally - sometimes even with fatal results (Monte). I can show you a number of pictures and videos with spectators in very dangerous places during Rally Deutschland (plus police car on a SS route). But nobody says that these rallies should be removed from the calendar. Clear example of hypocrisy and double standards.

And Turkey? They just paid the money WRC promoter wanted - so they are in the calendar. Political prisoners? Who cares when the budget is balanced...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Will the fans or international media be effected by any political issues in a country?

I don't think so.

Are we traveling to Spain, via Barcelona in October if not flying a budget airline as some might question why I wrote that city? Yes. Terror incident occurs, should we all cancel our trips and rally there?

No.

Move on.

Turkey pays, has sponsors, has support for a rally - let them play.

Shame NZ can't bring more $$$$ to the table

[Tarmop]

You can`t compare terror attacks, which sadly take place pretty much everywhere to official country politics (in addition to terror).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Exactly. It's rather ironic to leave Poland for security reasons and move to a country where people are imprisoned without any reason...

Poland left out for security reasons ? No. It was safety reasons.

Imagine if a car hit a group of stupidly placed spectators and kills them, the impact this could have on the WRC and rally as a whole...

Poland had to go.

[sonnybobiche]

Imagine if a car hit a group of stupidly placed spectators and kills them, the impact this could have on the WRC and rally as a whole...



I could swear something similar happened earlier this year. Anyone remember which rally that was? Auntie Carlos, something like that? Hasn't been written about at all since it happened, so I've gotten a bit fuzzy on the details.

[steve.mandzij]

Poland left out for security reasons ? No. It was safety reasons.

Imagine if a car hit a group of stupidly placed spectators and kills them, the impact this could have on the WRC and rally as a whole...

Poland had to go.I said this on Reddit and got downvoted: when Paddon hit the spectator and killed him, I blamed MC for not having adequate spectator safety. It may not be as widespread as in Poland but their issues haven't been isolated. Hell, Latvala ran into a group of people on the outside of a square right turn covered in black ice in 2016. It's true that Poland's security issues are overblown by everyone; it's also true that spectators are out of control rally-wide. Groups of spectators ready to get hit all along a stage rather than at a few points.

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[GigiGalliNo1]

Spectator slipped off of a small cliff onto the stage... marshal couldn't have done anything. No one could foresee a slip on a wall could they? Be standing on a rock next to the stage in Argentina... unimaginable and no one to blame but nature if it does happen!

[Tarmop]

Slipped? He was standing near the road and got hit with the rear of the car. That falling/slipping from a cliff was after he was thrown there.

Also the possibility to slip from a cliff and get seriously injured without getting hit by a car should also be quite obvious...

[mknight]

Poland got yellow card in 2016... then in 2017 you got 1 stage cancelled and lot's of people in bad places even in the official broadcasts.
Clearly when other candidate events are available they had to drop them, else nobody else would care about the FIA warnings.

Note that Monte was dropped 2009-2011 also at least partly due to spectator issues.

[rhm]

I also think the average speed of the event is a factor:

Monte Carlo: 89kph
Poland: 116.5kph

You can't account for individual spectators taking risks which we saw the results of in Monte this year.
But you have to be able to manage the large majority of spectators and I think that is why the reaction to Poland this year has been so negative.

[EstWRC]

Spectator slipped off of a small cliff onto the stage... marshal couldn't have done anything. No one could foresee a slip on a wall could they? Be standing on a rock next to the stage in Argentina... unimaginable and no one to blame but nature if it does happen!

how long do you keep embarrassing yourself in this forum? i still remember your completely false driver rumours some years back and other false info that you have posted here.

and also this time.

[N.O.T]

how long do you keep embarrassing yourself in this forum? i still remember your completely false driver rumours some years back and other false info that you have posted here.

and also this time.

stop making fun of mentally handicapped people...

[GigiGalliNo1]

how long do you keep embarrassing yourself in this forum? i still remember your completely false driver rumours some years back and other false info that you have posted here.

and also this time.

What happened in Monte?

[Simmi]

What happened in Monte?

Onboards showed the photographer was effectively crouched in a ditch just next to the road where Hayden went off. He didn't fall off anything and was stood in an irresponsible place. It has been discussed so much this year. I guess that's why some forumers reacted angrily.

[the sniper]

Surely he's making the point rather badly that the incident has always been rather hushed up, or at least barely acknowledged by the WRC right from the day it happened. They did a good job of burying that bad news...

[BigWorm]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131494/neuville-vows-to-stop-focusing-on-ogier

Neuville will go all in for wins. No new quotes in the article really, says he hopes they can unlock some performance in the car.

[N.O.T]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131494/neuville-vows-to-stop-focusing-on-ogier

Neuville will go all in for wins. No new quotes in the article really, says he hopes they can unlock some performance in the car.

the potato dog will just crash from now on... the car does not need any performance enchantment, it need proper drivers that will not crash on stupid super specials or when you have a 10 minute lead.

[mknight]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131494/neuville-vows-to-stop-focusing-on-ogier

Neuville will go all in for wins. No new quotes in the article really, says he hopes they can unlock some performance in the car.

I do wonder how it will look like. So far this season Neuville has had quite a lot of close-calls and rarely got punished for them, most notably 2 big ones in Argentina. First run of power stage in Finland also comes to mind with at least 4 overshoots/close calls.

[AnttiL]

I do wonder how it will look like. So far this season Neuville has had quite a lot of close-calls and rarely got punished for them, most notably 2 big ones in Argentina. First run of power stage in Finland also comes to mind with at least 4 overshoots/close calls.

And Germany as well

[dimviii]

to study what at FFSA? any more info?

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First day at school for my son Oliver today, leaving Sweden behind to study at #FFSA in Le Mans. #proud

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[mknight]

Wonder what kind of program he will have and if he really only plans to do rallycross.

In any case it is very likely he will get some tarmac/circuit training which is only positive. Way too many rallydrivers neglect tarmac early in their careers and later on just don't improve on it even when they focus on it. (recent examples Østberg and Paddon).

[SubaruNorway]

Wonder what kind of program he will have and if he really only plans to do rallycross.

In any case it is very likely he will get some tarmac/circuit training which is only positive. Way too many rallydrivers neglect tarmac early in their careers and later on just don't improve on it even when they focus on it. (recent examples Østberg and Paddon).

Rallycross is more for fun and to get used to more power they have said.

[AnttiL]

Wonder what kind of program he will have and if he really only plans to do rallycross.

In any case it is very likely he will get some tarmac/circuit training which is only positive. Way too many rallydrivers neglect tarmac early in their careers and later on just don't improve on it even when they focus on it. (recent examples Østberg and Paddon).

Suninen and Lappi started on karting and won Finnish Championships, but would you believe it based on their Rally Deutschland performances? Rallying on rough tarmac is a different sport.

[Tarmop]

Wonder what kind of program he will have and if he really only plans to do rallycross.

In any case it is very likely he will get some tarmac/circuit training which is only positive. Way too many rallydrivers neglect tarmac early in their careers and later on just don't improve on it even when they focus on it. (recent examples Østberg and Paddon).

Young Solberg competed in Estonia last weekend and accoring to the news they are planning to compete here on every rally next year.

[mknight]

Suninen and Lappi started on karting and won Finnish Championships, but would you believe it based on their Rally Deutschland performances? Rallying on rough tarmac is a different sport.

Not saying it always works, but for example Mikkelsen focused quite a lot on tarmac when he was 17-18 and now he is able to fight in the top on tarmac. Think JML also did some tarmac at that age.

[BigWorm]

Wonder what kind of program he will have and if he really only plans to do rallycross.

In any case it is very likely he will get some tarmac/circuit training which is only positive. Way too many rallydrivers neglect tarmac early in their careers and later on just don't improve on it even when they focus on it. (recent examples Østberg and Paddon).

Is rallycross really tarmac training though? I don't follow it but from what I've seen they're just sliding all the time, doesn't look like it's much grip in those cars, almost like a gravel spec WRC on tarmac. Quite different from driving a tarmac rally.

The problem with tarmac training for northern European's is just that there are barely any tarmac rallies up here. The young drivers don't have access to the mileage to develop on that surface from an early stage in their career unless they "migrate" like Mikkelsen. Perhaps many can't afford that.

[COD]

Any driving training is good for all forms of motorsport

[Steve Boyd]

Not saying it always works, but for example Mikkelsen focused quite a lot on tarmac when he was 17-18 and now he is able to fight in the top on tarmac. Think JML also did some tarmac at that age.
Both competed on tarmc events in the British Championship. Rally Isle of Man, Ulster & Jim Clark have a mixture of tarmac surface types which, when added to British weather, make an excellent training ground for any driver.

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131524/paddon-writes-off-season-for-2018-title-bid

Not surprising really...hope for better fortunes for him next year.

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131524/paddon-writes-off-season-for-2018-title-bid

Not surprising really...hope for better fortunes for him next year.

What does this even mean? Isn't everyone's championship title campaign written off except Ogier's, Neuville's and Tänak's? Or does this mean Paddon isn't contesting in these events?

[Hartusvuori]

What does this even mean? Isn't everyone's championship title campaign written off except Ogier's, Neuville's and Tänak's? Or does this mean Paddon isn't contesting in these events?

It doesn't say title campaign. I understand that he competes the remaining events without a specific goal for 2017 championship.

[AnttiL]

It doesn't say title campaign. I understand that he competes the remaining events without a specific goal for 2017 championship.

Right, it was writing off 'remainder of his WRC campaign' and going instead for 'title bid' in 2018. But yeah, I guess Hyundai needs him for manu points. But still quite pointless article.

[skarderud]

Rumours that Mikkelsen drives a Hyundai in spain.

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[AnttiL]

Rumours that Mikkelsen drives a Hyundai in spain.

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Instead of Paddon?

[EstWRC]

Wouldn't surprise me at all, they want to take points away from Ogier.

[skarderud]

Instead of Paddon?
Maybe thats what they mean with "writes og the season"?

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[HaCo]

Would be a good move of Hyundai, just hoping Neuville doesn't overdrive the car (like he did in Germany I think). Mikkelsen would have a good starting position.

[Simmi]

Conjecture at this point - but if Hayden did give up his seat I'd hope Hyundai would at least get him an R5 to keep his eye in and retain his knowledge of the stages. Missing an event doesn't help anyone.

[doubled1978]

4th car for Mikkelsen? Near the end of the season so they may have a spare chassis available for it.

[Myrvold]

Not saying it always works, but for example Mikkelsen focused quite a lot on tarmac when he was 17-18 and now he is able to fight in the top on tarmac. Think JML also did some tarmac at that age.


Ye, I remember I had a 6 hour karting session with Andreas and Ola back in the days he was competing in the Focus. My only claim to fame is that I was faster than both :)

[KKS]

I think that Hyundai didn't allow Mikkelsen to drive their car at event without contract for 2018. Did he got one? - No, so.... it's not gonna be true

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe Hyundai will give him the contract :) and he choose Hyundai instead the joke Citroën.

[Munkvy]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131524/paddon-writes-off-season-for-2018-title-bid

Not surprising really...hope for better fortunes for him next year.

Isn't this just Autosport making up a story? Hayden has been saying for probably the last 3-4 rounds that his chances for 2017 are over! I feel Autosport are just running out of material and creativity?

[Simmi]

Isn't this just Autosport making up a story? Hayden has been saying for probably the last 3-4 rounds that his chances for 2017 are over! I feel Autosport are just running out of material and creativity?

I think they call it a slow news week.

[EstWRC]

Can someone put this here ? https://www.autosport.com/wrc/feature/7689/why-ford-must-return-to-the-wrc


Thanks !

[AL14]

Can someone put this here ? https://www.autosport.com/wrc/feature/7689/why-ford-must-return-to-the-wrc


Thanks !

I'm sure that's another story that says basically nothing.
We all already know why Ford should return we don't need Evans for that.

[racerx1979]

Can someone put this here ? https://www.autosport.com/wrc/feature/7689/why-ford-must-return-to-the-wrc


Thanks !

Here you go:

Ford should return to the WRC because all of us Brits would be so happy to finally have them back. We can also keep Ogier and go back to the good old days so we can all keep on reporting biased media. Go Brits!!! Meeke is the best and Wilson is a god.

-David Evans, Colin Clark and insert other British Journo name here.

[EstWRC]

I'm sure that's another story that says basically nothing.
We all already know why Ford should return we don't need Evans for that.

Well I'm not even expecting something good but since we are having this long break with no news then at least I could read some quality humor:p

[Andre Oliveira]

A full hand of nothing?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Can someone put this here ? https://www.autosport.com/wrc/feature/7689/why-ford-must-return-to-the-wrc

Thanks !

Anything that gives Ford another push has to be a good thing.

[tomhlord]

Let's all knock an article based not upon not reading it, but because a British person wrote it. Classy moves, forum. The irony is that a slow news period also means rubbish is posted on here.

Onwards.

[Simmi]

I've read through it. Apologies but I'm not going to copy and paste paywall content on here outright.

Needless to say though there isn't any new info on there. It's Evans basically making the same plea we forumers have been doing all year. He doesn't feel confident any support will be forthcoming from Ford.

I still don't really know why so many insist on slating the journalist for doing his job and writing about rallying. Let's be real there aren't exactly queues of trained journalists wanting to cover the WRC. In the wider context of sport, no one gives a sh*t. It needs all the help it can get.

What percentage of WRC news or links posted here are from British sites/sources? A vast percentage. Maybe you should be saying thank you. And alternatively, if other people are doing a better job, please point them out. I don't mind if it's in another language I can use Google Translate.

[SubaruNorway]

Can someone put this here ? https://www.autosport.com/wrc/feature/7689/why-ford-must-return-to-the-wrc


Thanks !

Don't be as cheap as Citroen Racing was not paying for the music on premiumbeat.com in their latest video.

[racerx1979]

Anything that gives Ford another push has to be a good thing.

This I do agree with. The WRC obviously needs the backing on Manufacturers.

[racerx1979]

I've read through it. Apologies but I'm not going to copy and paste paywall content on here outright.

Needless to say though there isn't any new info on there. It's Evans basically making the same plea we forumers have been doing all year. He doesn't feel confident any support will be forthcoming from Ford.

I still don't really know why so many insist on slating the journalist for doing his job and writing about rallying. Let's be real there aren't exactly queues of trained journalists wanting to cover the WRC. In the wider context of sport, no one gives a sh*t. It needs all the help it can get.

What percentage of WRC news or links posted here are from British sites/sources? A vast percentage. Maybe you should be saying thank you. And alternatively, if other people are doing a better job, please point them out. I don't mind if it's in another language I can use Google Translate.

I actually read motorsport and autosport columns regularly. Is it usually biased? I think the answer is yes if you ask most. Does that mean it's bad? Not at all.. we will take what we can get when it comes to info covering the WRC. They're doing their job and a usually a good job at that... I'm sure the French or Finnish press is biased towards their teams/drivers too.. it should be that way if that is their main market.

[EstWRC]

my apologies if i offended somebody but you have to admit that sometimes those Evans articles dont include anything new like for example that article about Paddon yesterday and that completely BS article about Evans going to Toyota or Hyundai a month ago.


But still, i awlays like to read them. Better than nothing.

[dimviii]

my apologies if i offended somebody but you have to admit that sometimes those Evans articles dont include anything new like for example that article about Paddon yesterday and that completely BS article about Evans going to Toyota or Hyundai a month ago.


But still, i awlays like to read them. Better than nothing.

I don't agree,there is no need to loose time to read something which is no news.

[stefanvv]

I don't agree,there is no need to loose time to read something which is no news.

Isn't that what the "loose time" is for?!?

[AL14]

I didn't want to offend anyone either and I want to say I have nothing against british journalists and never wrote anything against them. But let me say that when there is a moment of lack of news it should be a journalist task to find them. I think this is a critic we can do in a forum.

I'm not gonna say thank you to someone who get paid for doing his job in a way I don't like. I rather say thank you to all the bloggers, forumers, twitter accounts who are able to give more insights than him with way less means.

[stefanvv]

bloggers, forumers, twitter accounts who are able to give more insights than him with way less means.

Yeah, but not all read all blogs, forum posts & twitter messages. Some people from "old school" are still reading magazines & newspapers.

EDIT: I haven't subscription to motrsportnews+ myself so I can't tell for sure, but this must also provide some analysis over some topic worthing the money to read. The base free site is only full of quotes basically, which aren't any news indeed for someone who follows the sport closely.

[AndyRAC]

I still don't really know why so many insist on slating the journalist for doing his job and writing about rallying. Let's be real there aren't exactly queues of trained journalists wanting to cover the WRC. In the wider context of sport, no one gives a sh*t. It needs all the help it can get.


Good point! If he didn't put those stories up on Autosport; there would be absolutely nothing about the WRC at all for weeks during the summer break. The WRC thread on the Autosport forum quite often drops of the first page because not enough people are interested. The WRC is a hard sell here in the UK; not helped because the sport is mainly invisible.

[sonnybobiche]

Ford is like a girl being courted, and you all know girls don't like to be pressured. They have to want to join the championship as a full manufacturer, not be berated into doing so. That's why Malcolm Wilson rightly winces when anyone complains that Ford needs to join. Openly calling them "parasitic" on an autosport article is really unhelpful.

[stefanvv]

That's why Malcolm Wilson rightly winces when anyone complains that Ford needs to join.

I haven't read the article, can You elaborate this sentence?

[sonnybobiche]

"In fact, in the words of one of my colleagues on the last WRC round in Germany, Ford is worse than a charlatan. He described it as a parasite, feeding off M-Sport's success.

"It's utterly ironic that Ford's staunchest support still comes from the man who suffers the most from Dearborn's intransigence. Don't believe me? Watch the post-event press conference at Rally Germany and you'll see [Wilson] wince as Ogier delivers another invitation to Ford to come to the party."

[Archie Gillaine]

Ford will return when they feel it's worth doing so.
At the moment its almost a win/win for them. They put very little in, but can bask in the glory of any success.
Who apart from a dedicated follower of the sport actually knows Ford AREN'T in the WRC??

[Arwel Davies]

Ford will return when they feel it's worth doing so.
At the moment its almost a win/win for them. They put very little in, but can bask in the glory of any success.
Who apart from a dedicated follower of the sport actually knows Ford AREN'T in the WRC??

This is the exact reason why there is no sign of them returning. From a business viewpoint why would they invest x amount more money when they are claiming rally victories as their own right now, we've all seen the Ford Performance tweets on Twitter. Just because there is no big Ford logo on the cars, its clearly a Fiesta and that is always going to be associated with Ford rather than M-sport. To a casual fan looking in, it would appear that Ford are competing in the WRC and winning. I feel that without the full Ford return, I can see M-sport looking at other manufactures in a few years. Prodrive were associated with Subaru for years and ran the ill fated Mini WRC team so it has been done and probably will be done again at some point.Will we see Ford as a full manufacturer? I would say its doubtful.

[Lundefaret]

In my opinion Ford is getting a lot of undeserved flack.

Ford is massively involved in M Sport with a factory spec Rally Cross program, and have been very lojal to M Sport since the factory days. And its not like they dont supply time/effort/money to M Sports rally program.

M Sport (Malcolm Wilson) decided to continue in the WRC whit out full factory backing, and this was a decision he made as part of a very successful business plan, to both sell R5 and R2 (and other) rally cars, and also use it as a HALO project to advertise M Sports engineering capabilities to other motorsport- and non-motorsport clients.

Malcolm Wilson also took a calculated decision to employ Ogier, again with out factory support, and also said that this is a "once in a life time" opportunity. So he didn´t do that deal with the expectation that Ogier would stay on/Ford would come in with full factory backing, all though he probably hoped this would trigger that effect.

If Ford chooses to back M Sport or not, that is off course the question, but I dont see how Ford should suffer any flack for "riding on the back" of M Sport, Ford are in large the reason for M Sport´s existence.

And seeing it from an economical point of view, M Sports economics are much healthier after Fords pull out than before, because they are not that dependant on one client (Ford), or one market (Motorsport).
The same has actually happened to Prodive after Subaru. They are thriving in engineering, composits manufacture, and other things, on top of that they run several successfull motorsport campaigns, and a very good marketing capaign for Subaru.

So all is not bad - even if Ford decides against going full tilt into the WRC.

[Simmi]

I guess fundamentally when Ford left they could have also made life really hard for Malcolm. But didn't. I'd assume if they don't bless the programme all these cars can't get properly homologated?

[RAS007]

....but I dont see how Ford should suffer any flack for "riding on the back" of M Sport, Ford are in large the reason for M Sport´s existence.

This^^^. Malcolm's relationship with Ford goes back to when he was a driver, and Malcolm Wilson Motorsport was a customer preparation outfit. Anyone saying Ford is riding on the back of M-Sport needs a history lesson.

[Rally Power]

So all is not bad - even if Ford decides against going full tilt into the WRC.

Ok, for sure it’s better to have MSport linked with Ford in a limited tech and logistic deal than not having MSport at all, but any rally fan must feel sad to see Ford throwing buckets of money on their LM/WEC 2nd level effort or on the gymkhana guy WRX team, instead of honoring their WRC heritage in a active way.

[racerx1979]

And seeing it from an economical point of view, M Sports economics are much healthier after Fords pull out than before, because they are not that dependant on one client (Ford), or one market (Motorsport).
The same has actually happened to Prodive after Subaru. They are thriving in engineering, composits manufacture, and other things, on top of that they run several successfull motorsport campaigns, and a very good marketing capaign for Subaru.

So all is not bad - even if Ford decides against going full tilt into the WRC.

Prodrive doing great. They are building VW's for the Rally Championship in China, folding bicycles.. you name it.

http://www.prodrive.com/news

The VW Golf SCRC is a great looking car. Simple.. http://www.prodrive.com/rally

[janvanvurpa]

Isn't that what the "loose time" is for?!?


You could read a good book...that's what i do.

[wrc2017]

Amen
Here you go:

Ford should return to the WRC because all of us Brits would be so happy to finally have them back. We can also keep Ogier and go back to the good old days so we can all keep on reporting biased media. Go Brits!!! Meeke is the best and Wilson is a god.

-David Evans, Colin Clark and insert other British Journo name here.

[stefanvv]

"In fact, in the words of one of my colleagues on the last WRC round in Germany, Ford is worse than a charlatan. He described it as a parasite, feeding off M-Sport's success.

"It's utterly ironic that Ford's staunchest support still comes from the man who suffers the most from Dearborn's intransigence. Don't believe me? Watch the post-event press conference at Rally Germany and you'll see [Wilson] wince as Ogier delivers another invitation to Ford to come to the party."

Oh yeah, what can I say. Better - nothing.

[stefanvv]

You could read a good book...that's what i do.

You do well, You know it, I know it. Not probably better, but certainly better than reading pointless motor sport articles with bias-ed analysis. And ..... yeah - blog posts, forum posts, twitter messages, not all of them of course, but the majority - yes.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good point! If he didn't put those stories up on Autosport; there would be absolutely nothing about the WRC at all for weeks during the summer break. The WRC thread on the Autosport forum quite often drops of the first page because not enough people are interested. The WRC is a hard sell here in the UK; not helped because the sport is mainly invisible.

This is spot on. Be grateful, at least someone is writing about WRC.

And those people that see these articles in such a negative way, why not just ignore them ? We dont need this view expressed every time some of us want to discuss them.

As for the Ford / M-Sport issue, there is no doubt that Ford is getting a good deal. But that may be just for this season. If Ford dont come back and invest serious money then I dont see the M-Sport success story going much further in the WRC.

Without more money from the manufacturer:
1. their best driver(s) will leave and
2. the Fiesta WRC wont progress.

[KKS]

Without more money from the manufacturer:
1. their best driver(s) will leave and
2. the Fiesta WRC wont progress.

But they build a fast WRC car without Ford. And take 2 win's by his own driver, not oneseason guest superstar.

[stefanvv]

That's painfully ironic. Their "own" driver might just leave, and the guest ss just stay for awhile.

[KKS]

That's painfully ironic. Their "own" driver might just leave, and the guest ss just stay for awhile.
He could, but he main test-driver of winning car and know it very well. And a Fiesta quite good car, why he might leave? Money? Don't think that now it is priority no1 for Tanak.
Now main issue for M-Sport it's Ogier salary.

So without Ogier "issue" they do pretty well even without Ford manufacture support.

[stefanvv]

He could, but he main test-driver of winning car and know it very well. And a Fiesta quite good car, why he might leave? Money? Don't think that now it is priority no1 for Tanak.
Now main issue for M-Sport it's Ogier salary.

So without Ogier "issue" they do pretty well even without Ford manufacture support.

Yeah, but it depends what Malcolm wants. He might "sacrifice" Tanak to pay more bill to Ogier. In case Tanak wants more, it'll make it easier decision I think.

"The future is predetermined by the characters who shape it"

I don't think Tanak would give a dime staying in M-Sport, if someone offers him more. Ogier's case is more complicated....

[Andre Oliveira]

@KKS the M-Sport ‘s issue is not the Ogier’s salary. It is what he want to stay.

[stefanvv]

@KKS the M-Sport ‘s issue is not the Ogier’s salary. It is what he want to stay.

This isn't news, he already refused the big Toyota salary last year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yep, Ogier mainly wants Ford to return to ensure the money is there to develop the car.

[racerx1979]

This isn't news, he already refused the big Toyota salary last year.

Toyota offered him an actual salary? I thought that talk never took place as Ogier was not happy with the car.

[pantealex]

Toyota offered him an actual salary? I thought that talk never took place as Ogier was not happy with the car.

They made an offer before his test. Some say "open check", some 10million, truth is most probably some other amount. I believe that only Tommi, Mr.Toyoda and SebO knows actual numbers.

[KKS]

@KKS the M-Sport ‘s issue is not the Ogier’s salary. It is what he want to stay.
really? So if Malcom says: "On this WRC year I put own savings" it's not about Ogier salary?

M-Sport come to 2017 year without any financial difficulties. They build a competitive car by his own and win a rallys without "extra money" (savings) for guest driver. So manufacture Ford support isn't crucial as we all think.
Yes, if Ford put some money into M-Sport - Ogier will be happy with his salary and could stay, but it's only one thing what M-Sport couldn't manage at this time.

[Tarmop]

Well, probably, he and Ogier never implied there was a question about the salary. The Fiesta itself has to be capable of winning every event, which can`t be done without development. Development, especially the kind that is measured in 0.x seconds lost or won on a stage, needs expensive knowhow and equipment. Also Ogier has his third car now, Tänak his second...this season. Last private seasons they used one car per season or two, with a few older cars in garage in case of emergency. 00050TH served both Evans and Ostberg, PX15HTE was used by Tänak, repaired after Portugal and then served Camilli a few events, while Tänak used an old PX12CPS. I really don`t think that Ogiers salary is the main issue, as he has quite rich and big sponsors.

[COD]

Skoda is the latest team to start a young driver search. Nice tha Nordgren gets first chance
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/news/2017/september/nordgren-skoda/page/4835--51-51-.html

[KiwiWRCfan]

Rumours not yet news
Finnish website claims Citroen drivers for Catalunya will be Meeke, LeFebvre & Al-Qassimi. Also claims Mikkelsen will be with Hyundai in 2018 http://www.urheiluuutiset.com/mikkelsen-ei-aja-espanjan-mm-rallissa-citroenilla-siirtymassa-hyundaille/

[AnttiL]

Rumours not yet news
Finnish website claims Citroen drivers for Catalunya will be Meeke, Breen & LeFebvre. Also claims Mikkelsen will be with Hyundai in 2018 http://www.urheiluuutiset.com/mikkelsen-ei-aja-espanjan-mm-rallissa-citroenilla-siirtymassa-hyundaille/

Actually it says that Citroen goes to Spain with Meeke, Lefebvre and Al-Qassimi, not with Breen. It says that Hyundai might have a four car team like it's rumoured for 2018 or then Sordo is said to want to leave WRC and go for rallycross.

[Eli]

Actually it says that Citroen goes to Spain with Meeke, Lefebvre and Al-Qassimi, not with Breen. It says that Hyundai might have a four car team like it's rumoured for 2018 or then Sordo is said to want to leave WRC and go for rallycross.Honestly after all this time, how are they dropping Breen? Hopefully that part of the rumor is wrong.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[KiwiWRCfan]

German website also claims Meeke, Lefebvre & Al-Qassimi are Citroen drivers for Catalunya https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/09/04/citroen-ohne-mikkelsen-in-spanien-kommt-ogier/

[EstWRC]

so the "silly season" has finally started now!

[racerx1979]

Well this is what happens when you have 3 cars and 5 possible drivers. Someone will get dropped.

[Simmi]

More panic stations within Citroen then. Don't see how they can go into next year with this same lineup. I can see them throwing money at Ogier or Tanak. Or the gimmick fourth car for Loeb if that manu points rule comes in.

[tomhlord]

"Oh my word, standby for some explosive WRC driver news. Do they speak French in Alzenau? And when do Spain entires close?" https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/904985832406306817

[tomhlord]

Honestly after all this time, how are they dropping Breen? Hopefully that part of the rumor is wrong.

Weird.

[Simmi]

"Oh my word, standby for some explosive WRC driver news. Do they speak French in Alzenau? And when do Spain entires close?" https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/904985832406306817

I really like the guy but I maintain he has no idea what is happening. Just following the rumours along like the rest of us.

[racerx1979]

Well he certainly knows a whole heck of a lot more than most people. News spreads and I'm sure information has already leaked, but he would be in deep sh!t if were to reveal it on social media.

But... He is Impying Ogier might going to Hyundai since he is French and Hyundai is based in Alzenau or is he just being silly to try to get the rumor mill going.

[rallyfiend]

No, I reckon it's Mikkelsen to do the rest of the season in preparation for 2018. The reference is to Mikkelsen saying he was doing French lessons. And the reference to Spain entries closing.

As above, I don't think Colin has any clue what's actually going on at all....

[rallyfiend]

Well he certainly knows a whole heck of a lot more than most people. News spreads and I'm sure information has already leaked, but he would be in deep sh!t if were to reveal it on social media.

.

If he's worried about getting in trouble, then he's just a mouthpiece for other people...

[racerx1979]

That seems more like it. Would be nice to see Andreas driving a Hyundai in Spain instead of an R5 Skoda. He did say that he will be driving again this year...

[tomhlord]

No, I reckon it's Mikkelsen to do the rest of the season in preparation for 2018. The reference is to Mikkelsen saying he was doing French lessons. And the reference to Spain entries closing.

As above, I don't think Colin has any clue what's actually going on at all....

Agreed that it's Mikkelsen here, not Ogier, but I think he knows what's going on here. Something is about to happen...

"I can't find a chess piece emoji. Will this do? ���� #WRCChess" https://twitter.com/Becsywecsy/status/904991376990982144

[JAM]

Do you remember that article at Autosport.com last week about Paddon's future that everybody considered useless?

Now you realize what was going on. Paddon was seing is place in doubt and had to react on the media.

[tomhlord]

Paddon/Sordo to share a car, Mikkelsen and TN in the other two for 2018? Or simply Mikkelsen in an extra car for a round/season?

[Simmi]

Do you remember that article at Autosport.com last week about Paddon's future that everybody considered useless?

Now you realize what was going on. Paddon was seing is place in doubt and had to react on the media.

Or Hyundai helped plant that story for him.

[JAM]

Or Hyundai helped plant that story for him.

Maybe, but i prefer my version :)

Above that, it seems obvious that the article was not useless or inocent.

But we still didn't saw any oficial sign about Mikkelsen driving the Hyundai in Spain.

[racerx1979]

I think Paddon will be on for 2018. Nandan does not strike me as someone who would do this considering how much he has done for TN.

This are getting silly for sure!

[Andre Oliveira]

With 4 cars anything could be possible, event a M-Sport WRC lineup with Sunninen, Camilli, Rovanperä and Tidemand lool

[racerx1979]

Sorry if this was already answered, but has the 4 car option been approved?

[drive]

https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/904922426072600576

[Simmi]

Sorry if this was already answered, but has the 4 car option been approved?

It's not been announced. I guess it will be at an upcoming FIA World Council meeting if it gets green-lit. Can't remember when the next one is.

[bluuford]

so the "silly season" has finally started now!

Actually it is finished already, just announcments left ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

And you know more than us, obviously ;)

[tomhlord]

I really like the guy but I maintain he has no idea what is happening. Just following the rumours along like the rest of us.

Ta-Dah https://motorsport.hyundai.com/driver-line-up-adjusted/

[tomhlord]

Do you remember that article at Autosport.com last week about Paddon's future that everybody considered useless?

Now you realize what was going on. Paddon was seing is place in doubt and had to react on the media.

Correct.

[smsgrafica]

So this means no Ford Official Team and Ogier to Citroen in 2018 then?

[Tarmop]

ummm, how? Maybe Andreas was offered more money and definitely better car on gravel.

[Eli]

So this means no Ford Official Team and Ogier to Citroen in 2018 then?

Seems that way unfortunately... but if we'll have a 4 car team next year...it will make things quite more interesting.

[mknight]

Yes smells a lot like Ogier to Citroen with Meeke as second.
Mikkelsen to Hyundai.

BUT it could be that both Meeke (at Citroen) and Mikkelsen (at Hyundai) have 1-2 rallies to prove if they will drive with their teams next team. I doubt this though.

Looks much more likely that both of them are signed for next year already but their results will decide who will drive all rallies next year.

From Hyundai it's totally logical last push effort to snap the manu championship from Ford.

- On a side note I really wonder how it is going to work between Mikkelsen and Neuville (who are supposedly friends) when they compete against each other in same car.

- Also wonder how much testing Mikkelsen will get before Spain.

[bassist]

According to WRC Mikklesen is to drive for Hyundai for last 3 2017 rounds.

[Simmi]

Maybe, but i prefer my version :)

Above that, it seems obvious that the article was not useless or inocent.

But we still didn't saw any oficial sign about Mikkelsen driving the Hyundai in Spain.

Haha. I agree even more that Hyundai planted this story now given what has just happened.

[noel157]

Also http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september-2017/mikkelsen-spain/page/4836--12-12-.html

[racerx1979]

Ta-Dah https://motorsport.hyundai.com/driver-line-up-adjusted/

Almost seems as if Hayden out and Andreas in for the remainder of the season? Crazy!!

I guess the Autosport article was a good tell. Maybe Hayden will do Australia since Tarmac is not a strong point and makes sense to drop him for Spain.

[Simmi]

How do people think Hyundai will line up with the final two rounds then?

I'd pick Paddon over Sordo for both GB and Aus. Obviously zero chance Hayden isn't doing his local round.

Actually kind of hoping they can stretch to four cars on GB. It would mean they don't have to drop either driver twice.

[Simmi]

Almost seems as if Hayden out and Andreas in for the remainder of the season? Crazy!!

I guess the Autosport article was a good tell. Maybe Hayden will do Australia since Tarmac is not a strong point and makes sense to drop him for Spain.


All three of our existing crews will remain under contract but the specific driver line-up will differ in each of the remaining rounds of the season, details of which will be announced in due course.

[smsgrafica]

Colin says Sordo ES and Paddon GB + AUS

[racerx1979]

I could see them adding a 4th car if they don't fair well in Spain or are close to getting good points.



All three of our existing crews will remain under contract but the specific driver line-up will differ in each of the remaining rounds of the season, details of which will be announced in due course.

I didn't see that the first time I read the article. Trying to read while walking.. haha

[tomhlord]

M-Sport has a decent lead, this smells more of 2018 planning than 2017 title chasing.

[smsgrafica]

I could see them adding a 4th car if they don't fair well in Spain or are close to getting good points.

A 4th car doesn't help at all for the Manu points. Just 2 out of 3 can score...

[racerx1979]

M-Sport has a decent lead, this smells more of 2018 planning than 2017 title chasing.

Agreed.. Ford is far ahead in points.

Tanak to Toyota? I think so :)

[smsgrafica]

@Yves_Matton
Congratulations to @MikkelsenRally for his new drive. He was one of the options we considered for 2018, but we had to set priorities
Another hint at Ogier?

[mknight]

Another hint at Ogier?

Seems like done deal yes.

So the only remaining big question for me is whether Tanak will stay at M-Sport as main driver or go to Toyota.

For championship sake I hope he stays.

[AL14]

I have to say I really feel for Paddon. He is a very nice guy and his effort and commitment toward the sport has always been intense, and he's a nice guy. I understand Nandan's move of course, but I'm sorry for him.

[AL14]

Another hint at Ogier?

I hope for them they are 100% sure to have a deal with him otherwise letting Mikkelsen go and don't take Ogier will let them again with Meeke going to trees and Lefebvre battling for 8th.

[er88]

Said it numerous times, Mikkelsen is not rated by Matton and Tommi as much as some on here rate Andreas. It's been obvious since VW left the sport, otherwise he would have a long term deal with Toyota or Citroen by now.

Meeke was always going to kept on for next season despite his poor season and Breen has done a fantastic job, but Ogier has always been Citroen's main target. It's been effectively Ogier or nothing for them since VW left, which imo, is another very risky strategy from Matton (following on from the risks with the car in development and engineering). If Ogier was to shock them now and stay at Msport (been unlikely for a while now due to Ford's reluctance to come back), Citroen would be up shit creek again in terms of the driver line-up and Matton would have even more questions to answer for.


If Ogier stays at Msport, there will be a huge push from Citroen for Loeb to do more than just a handful of events, you can bet on that :o

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Simmi]

I have to say I really feel for Paddon. He is a very nice guy and his effort and commitment toward the sport has always been intense, and he's a nice guy. I understand Nandan's move of course, but I'm sorry for him.

Yeah a shame for Hayden. But right now he's only missing one rally. I think going forward Sordo has the bigger problems.

[BigWorm]

Colin says Sordo ES and Paddon GB + AUS

Sordo just replied to him in Spanish. The Twitter translate isn't the best, but it appeared as Sordo had a go at Colin, that that's not the case?

[Tarmop]

It`s not said, where Sordo will start or won`t start, only Paddon swapped for Mikkelsen this event.

[mknight]

Said it numerous times, Mikkelsen is not rated by Matton and Tommi as much as some on here rate Andreas. It's been obvious since VW left the sport, otherwise he would have a long term deal with Toyota or Citroen by now.

Meeke was always going to kept on for next season despite his poor season and Breen has done a fantastic job, but Ogier has always been Citroen's main target...



While I agree that for some reason Tommi does not rate Mikkelsen high, I think it's just about impossible that Citroen didn't sign Mikkelsen without signing Ogier already.

The only option would be that Mikkelsen got more money from Hyundai but I don't think that's likely.

[noel157]

Yeah a shame for Hayden. But right now he's only missing one rally. I think going forward Sordo has the bigger problems.

Isn't Sordo planning to do a bit of RallyX next season? May not see much of him on WRC rounds.

[EstWRC]

Actually it is finished already, just announcments left ;)

yeah i know but the newspaper only now starting to write!

[Simmi]

Sordo just replied to him in Spanish. The Twitter translate isn't the best, but it appeared as Sordo had a go at Colin, that that's not the case?

LOL Sordo just went in on Colin Clark. Again he's just rumouring and making assumptions.

Badly google translates to this - @voiceofrally @AMikkelsenRally At the moment... Australia and GB you you are inventing! Or is it that you like to clear. A smartass tila come tomato!

Maybe someone who speaks Spanish can properly translate. Seems pretty funny.

[mknight]

From autosport article on Mikkelsen at Hyundai:

"Hyundai has remained tight-lipped on next season, but Autosport's sources have confirmed Mikkelsen is expected to tackle a full season along with Thierry Neuville next year"

[AL14]

LOL Sordo just went in on Colin Clark. Again he's just rumouring and making assumptions.

Badly google translates to this - @voiceofrally @AMikkelsenRally At the moment... Australia and GB you you are inventing! Or is it that you like to clear. A smartass tila come tomato!

Maybe someone who speaks Spanish can properly translate. Seems pretty funny.

I got this For now ... Australia and GB you're making it up !! Or is what you would like clear. Come, tomato, a smart guy!

I think the last is a spanish way of saying or something. Waiting to some fellow member to understand the meaning. It sounds quite rough actually. :D

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/09/05/hyundai-mikkelsen-ersetzt-paddon/ and it mentions, well that Matton mentions that Mikkelsen is already confirmed for Hyundai next year, anyone here can confirm it? (although it does seem very likely by now).

[Simmi]

Sordo's had another chip at Clark about Meeke. This is awesome:

Replying to @voiceofrally
Cuando bajaron a tu ídolo Meeke no estabas tan eufórico! ����

@voiceofrally When they fell to your Idol Meeke you were not so elated! ����

[AnttiL]

Rumours that Mikkelsen drives a Hyundai in spain.



Instead of Paddon?


Wouldn't surprise me at all, they want to take points away from Ogier.


None of this is true.

:p

[BigWorm]

Sordo's had another chip at Clark about Meeke. This is awesome:

Replying to @voiceofrally
Cuando bajaron a tu ídolo Meeke no estabas tan eufórico! ����

@voiceofrally When they fell to your Idol Meeke you were not so elated! ����

I'm with Sordo on this, Colin can do one

[er88]

While I agree that for some reason Tommi does not rate Mikkelsen high, I think it's just about impossible that Citroen didn't sign Mikkelsen without signing Ogier already.

The only option would be that Mikkelsen got more money from Hyundai but I don't think that's likely.This is the current Citroen managed by Matton we are talking about, anything is possible ;) . Mikkelsen didn't do anything in his starts this season that would've changed Mattons mind on him, if he wasn't already convinced (which seems to be the case). If Andreas had set rally leading stage times from the off, ran at the front of all the events and showed Meeke was the main problem and the car was good, he would've been signed up and Meeke would've been dropped for good I'm sure.

Mikkelsen served a purpose for Citroen but that was all in the end. He showed the team that he couldn't get near rally leading pace on gravel with the car (reaffirming it's very difficult to drive on that surface), showed (like Meeke) that the car is quick on tarmac, and reaffirmed what Meeke had been pushing for in terms of what changes needed to be made to the car.

Seems like Citroen wanted another opinion from a proven rally winner about where they needed to homologate new parts, before they trusted what Meeke had already been pushing for. This is probably another reason why Meeke felt he didnt have the full support of certain people within the team. It's almost like they didn't trust their main driver who has now openly admitted he wanted an experienced test driver alongside him in 2016, and pushed for the changes to the car long before they were finally implemented after Andreas' input. Just screams of bad management to me.

And yes, if Ogier isn't more of less signed up it's a baffling decision for Citroen to not offer Andreas a deal. Mikkelsen, Meeke and Breen is a lot better than what they could be left with if Ogier stays at Msport. I cannot see Loeb doing a full season unless it's for an obscene amount of money, and even then, Loeb isn't exactly motivated by money.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sooo Hyundai are re-jigging to fight M-Sport... too late boys !

[AnttiL]

With 4 cars anything could be possible, event a M-Sport WRC lineup with Sunninen, Camilli, Rovanperä and Tidemand lool

Rovanperä is too young to do most of the WRC events next year and is anyway still better off collecting experience in WRC2. But I could see M-Sport going with Evans, Camilli, Suninen. Østberg in the fourth car? Or Tidemand?

[RS]

While I agree that for some reason Tommi does not rate Mikkelsen high, I think it's just about impossible that Citroen didn't sign Mikkelsen without signing Ogier already.

The only option would be that Mikkelsen got more money from Hyundai but I don't think that's likely.

Or having driven the Citroen, Mikelssen would rather sign with Hyundai.

Seems like a gamble for Ogier.. leaving a car he can win with for one which is, err, sub-optimal at best.

[Simmi]

Or having driven the Citroen, Mikelssen would rather sign with Hyundai.

Seems like a gamble for Ogier.. leaving a car he can win with for one which is, err, sub-optimal at best.

It would be pretty crazy wouldn't it. Moving to the assumed worst car for 2017 and then doing the same thing again in 2018.

Of course with hindsight we know the Fiesta wasn't the worst car. I'm sure with a good winter of hard work and Ogier lighting a few rockets under Citroen they can get the C3 right.

[smsgrafica]

Seems like a gamble for Ogier.. leaving a car he can win with for one which is, err, sub-optimal at best.

Without official Ford support, M-Sport won't have the money to develop the car, hence it'll become the worst choice for him.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Without official Ford support, M-Sport won't have the money to develop the car, hence it'll become the worst choice for him.

But they developed it well enough from scratch to lead the Manufacturers this season. I think saying that is just an excuse for Ogier to leave.

The truth is, MSport cant afford his wages again without Ford or a major sponsor...

[AnttiL]

It would be pretty crazy wouldn't it. Moving to the assumed worst car for 2017 and then doing the same thing again in 2018.

Everyone thought Toyota would be the worst car for 2017

[BigWorm]

Paddon insists 2018 is his year for the push, which means he needs to be in the main car for the whole 2018 season, yet David Evans writes this:

''Hyundai has remained tight-lipped on next season, but Autosport's sources have confirmed Mikkelsen is expected to tackle a full season along with Thierry Neuville next year. Paddon and Sordo are expected to share a third i20 Coupe.''

Meh.

[pantealex]

Citroen said that they don´t have money for 4 cars in Catalonia, maybe that is also reason for not hiring Mikkelsen ?

How can they make deal with Ogier, he is 10x more expensive than Mikkelsen ?

I still don´t believe that M-Sport and Citroen are Ogier´s only choices.

[HaCo]

Citroen said that they don´t have money for 4 cars in Catalonia, maybe that is also reason for not hiring Mikkelsen ?

How can they make deal with Ogier, he is 10x more expensive than Mikkelsen ?

I still don´t believe that M-Sport and Citroen are Ogier´s only choices.
I see it the same way...

Nobody has a big sponsor for Ford in the pocket? Martini would be nice :-)

[macebig]

Unless a new manufacturer is coming (0% chance for that now), Ogier's choices is either Ford or Citroen. And possibly in both cases with reduced wages...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier also said he could retire if 'everything isnt in place'...

I think its quite possible if he can go out winning the title with a different team... something Loeb didnt do.

[er88]

Citroen said that they don´t have money for 4 cars in Catalonia, maybe that is also reason for not hiring Mikkelsen ?

How can they make deal with Ogier, he is 10x more expensive than Mikkelsen ?

I still don´t believe that M-Sport and Citroen are Ogier´s only choices.Citroen will find the money for a driver like Seb, but not Mikkelsen. Just like they would've found room for Ogier at the beginning of this year but not Andreas or Jari. Ogier probably feels he has unfinished business there, and it cannot be underestimated how important winning a championship with 3 different manufacturers could be for someone like Seb, who has nearly done it all now.

Almost a no lose situation for him. He has nothing to prove to anyone, with him highly likely to win a title away from the VW domination. He goes to Citroen on a nice big long term contract, French driver/French team, with the aim of returning them to the top of the sport. If he wins another title he's a god and regains a lot of support from the French people who still aren't huge on him, and if he struggles everyone will just blame the car which we know is currently the worst anyway (although i still dont think its fundamentally flawed, and can be turned into a title challenger)

[itix]

Strange news today. I guess it's the manufacturers title that they are chasing. Isn't Msport a bit too far ahead though? I'd be amazed if they manage.

[er88]

Sooo Hyundai are re-jigging to fight M-Sport... too late boys !Not really. Realistically this is to give Andreas time in the car so he can hit the ground running next year. Manufacturers title is over for this year.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[sonnybobiche]

LOL Sordo just went in on Colin Clark. Again he's just rumouring and making assumptions.

Badly google translates to this - @voiceofrally @AMikkelsenRally At the moment... Australia and GB you you are inventing! Or is it that you like to clear. A smartass tila come tomato!

Maybe someone who speaks Spanish can properly translate. Seems pretty funny.

LOL a better translation would be:

"As of now, the stuff about Australia and GB you're just making up! Or that's what you'd like to be true, obviously. Just relax, know-it-all."

It's not as confrontational as it sounds in English, but it's not far off.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Strange news today. I guess it's the manufacturers title that they are chasing. Isn't Msport a bit too far ahead though? I'd be amazed if they manage.

Exactly.

[tomhlord]

Strange news today. I guess it's the manufacturers title that they are chasing. Isn't Msport a bit too far ahead though? I'd be amazed if they manage.

Hyundai needs a miracle to win it, so even those that's what the press release talks about, you can read 2018 between the lines.

[tomhlord]

LOL a better translation would be:

"As of now, the stuff about Australia and GB you're just making up! Or that's what you'd like to be true, obviously. Just relax, know-it-all."

It's not as confrontational as it sounds in English, but it's not far off.

What hasn't helped here is the weird way Hyundai worded the press release with regards to the GB and Australia line-ups.

[tomhlord]

How do people think Hyundai will line up with the final two rounds then?

I'd pick Paddon over Sordo for both GB and Aus. Obviously zero chance Hayden isn't doing his local round.

I agree.

[doubled1978]

I agree.
I agree too. Thats what I would pick and what I think most people think would give them the best chance of getting the most points.

[Simmi]

Could Hyundai run four cars? Costs aside I've not been keeping track of their chassis usage this season.

That would be a nice solution for GB.

[doubled1978]

Could Hyundai run four cars? Costs aside I've not been keeping track of their chassis usage this season.

That would be a nice solution for GB.

I hope so, as a spectator it would be great to have 4 good Hyundai cars on the event....Dani hasn't traditionally been super strong on GB apart from the odd stage win, but I'd like to see them all. The service mansion has a 4th bay..

[AndyRAC]

Not really. Realistically this is to give Andreas time in the car so he can hit the ground running next year. Manufacturers title is over for this year.

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I think this could be a really smart move from Hyundai; more seat time before the season ends and all the pre-season testing for Monte. He should then feel comfortable in the new car/ team. Neuville & Mikkelsen is potentially a really strong team.

[EightGear]

Absolutely loving Sordo's replies to Colin on twitter. Gold.

[the sniper]

Absolutely loving Sordo's replies to Colin on twitter. Gold.

Is there some history between them? Sordo is obviously not a fan of Colin Clark!

https://twitter.com/DaniSordo/status/905051854438064130


Colin Clark‏ @voiceofrally 7h7 hours ago
So @AMikkelsenRally is off to Hyundai for last three rounds. Replacing Paddon in Spain and Sordo in GB and Aus.

Dani Sordo‏ @DaniSordo Replying to @voiceofrally
De momento... lo de Australia y GB te lo estás inventando!! O es lo que a ti te gustaría claro. Venga tomate una tila listillo!

Translated from Spanish by Bing
@voiceofrally @AMikkelsenRally At the moment... Australia and GB you you are inventing! Or is it that you like to clear. A smartass tila come tomato!


Colin Clark‏ @voiceofrally 6h6 hours ago
Just to be clear Hyundai have said driver line up will change for last 3 rounds. Neuville and Mikkelsen in, 3rd driver still to be confirmed

Dani Sordo‏ @DaniSordo Replying to @voiceofrally
Cuando bajaron a tu ídolo Meeke no estabas tan eufórico! ����

Translated from Spanish by Bing Wrong translation?
@voiceofrally When they fell to your Idol Meeke you were not so elated! ����

Ouch! :D

[steve.mandzij]

Tomate una tila listillo has nothing to do with tomatoes. I don't know what tila is but it's likely a saying similar to "come at me smart ass"

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[KiwiWRCfan]

Could Hyundai run four cars? Costs aside I've not been keeping track of their chassis usage this season.

That would be a nice solution for GB.

Up until Germany Hyundai have used a total of 6 chassis. Potential to have another 3 chassis before season end.
But this is very different to desire/ability to run 4 cars.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Isn't Sordo planning to do a bit of RallyX next season? May not see much of him on WRC rounds.
If Hyundai has NG I20 RX..

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[Rally Power]

Tomate una tila listillo has nothing to do with tomatoes. I don't know what tila is but it's likely a saying similar to "come at me smart ass"

It’s not that harsh. Tila is the Tilia tree. He’s just being ironic and recommending Clark to chill out…

Venga = Come on; tomate una tila = have a lime blossom tea; listillo = smart ass.

[Munkvy]

Could this be Sordo winding down, and Mikkelsen being brought in to replace him long term? Makes sense to give him the change to do Spain, and Mikkelsen has won the event before, so the chance to take points off both Ogier and MSport is entirely logical for both championships.

I love the irony given the last tarmac event Paddon was the highest placed Hyundai and has done this event 6 times before and came 4th overall last year, but given his season, sadly it's entirely understandable to bench him.

[macebig]

If Hyundai has NG I20 RX..

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They have an RX engine from the old Rhys Millen Veloster. Probably it won't be much of a hassle to swoop it in one i20 coupe chassis and have a competitive RX car. VW did the same...

[dimviii]

It’s not that harsh. Tila is the Tilia tree. He’s just being ironic and recommending Clark to chill out…

Venga = Come on; tomate una tila = have a lime blossom tea; listillo = smart ass.

there is a shitstorm at twitter from Spanish fans against him.Even Vallejo was harsch at Colin.

Sergio Vallejo‏*@sergiovallejof
Replying to @voiceofrally @Kuderito @DaniSordo
ah! that explains everything!! Sorry for considering you a journalist.

[mknight]

Totally undeserved.

Clearly when there is an extra driver and they bench Paddon for Catalunya it's likely someone gets benched in the other events. That's all he said.

More exactly:
"Just to be clear Hyundai have said driver line up will change for last 3 rounds. Neuville and Mikkelsen in, 3rd driver still to be confirmed"

[racerx1979]

They have an RX engine from the old Rhys Millen Veloster. Probably it won't be much of a hassle to swoop it in one i20 coupe chassis and have a competitive RX car. VW did the same...

The Millen motor is fairly old and outdated version of the current motors. The Veloster used by his team was based on the old Hyundai Elantra WRC. Rhys later used a Ford engine from a Swedish engine builder (hint hint). Stephan Verdier had the Hyundai WRC motor in his car which was grossly low in power compared to the new motors yet he managed to do fairly well and it was not easily visible when he was up there with Rhys for a few events.

If Hyundai does a RX program they would run their own motor for sure.

[Rally Power]

there is a shitstorm at twitter from Spanish fans against him.Even Vallejo was harsch at Colin.

Sergio Vallejo‏*@sergiovallejof
Replying to @voiceofrally @Kuderito @DaniSordo
ah! that explains everything!! Sorry for considering you a journalist.

Yep, and honestly it's great to see people facing brit rally journos that tend to forget they work for the WRC official media, not to a local radio or tabloid. Still, Sordo's last sentence wasn't aggressive or impolite, like many here suggested.

[Simmi]

Translation software did Sordo no favours there. Made his responses look overly aggressive. I'm sure it will blow over.

Colin is certainly a brave guy talking so brazenly about drivers being dropped, under-performing etc. I mean it happens in sport literally all the time, but rallying is such a small circle.

[pantealex]

If Hyundai has NG I20 RX..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

Gigi Galli has been driving KIA RX Supercar and as we all should know: KIA/Hyundai are same company brands.

[tomhlord]

Yep, and honestly it's great to see people facing *brit* rally journos that tend to forget they work for the WRC official media, not to a local radio or tabloid. Still, Sordo's last sentence wasn't aggressive or impolite, like many here suggested.

What I don't understand here is your use of the word 'Brit'. I fail to see what any of this has to do with someone's nationality? Some of the tweets directed at Colin seem to be entirely about his race, and not about what he's said.

FYI, all he did was say no Sordo for GB and Aus.

Here's Hayden Paddon saying "we remain under contract until the end of the 2018 season and still have some *rally's* remaining this year to show what I know we are capable of."

So, not one singular rally, but more than one. https://www.facebook.com/haydenpaddonwrc/photos/a.577013142334479.1073741831.184390891596708/1410392628996522/?type=3&theater

[AL14]

I remember Sordo saying not long ago that he didn't like rallycross.

[tomhlord]

Yves Matton openly saying he's talking to Ogier for 2018? https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/905311610578841600

The article is in French, only got Google Translate to go by, is that what it says?

[seb_sh]

Yves Matton openly saying he's talking to Ogier for 2018? https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/905311610578841600

The article is in French, only got Google Translate to go by, is that what it says?

Yes he openly says he is their target and that negotiations are ongoing.

[dimviii]

Colin Clark‏*@voiceofrally
Nice phone call with @DaniSordo this morning. Very pleased to see that we are still mates. Rally Catalunya can't come quick enough!

[Simmi]

No fresh news in Motorsport News today - which went to press before yesterday's Mikkelsen announcement.

Two small things:

Matton having a bit of a moan about the fact teams have to nominate their drivers for an event before the previous round has finished. They have to commit their GB lineup before Spain run, and similarly Australia before GB. He implies it's something they need to speak to the FIA about.

Oliver Solberg is lining up his WRC debut at Wales GB 2018. His plan is to combine his Latvian and Estonian championships with the ERC. It doesn't specific but I have to assume in the U27 championship as he's running a 208 with support from Peugeot Norway. And then he'll be 17 in time to do GB. Petter confirmed he wanted to do the GB reece this year but isn't old enough.

[RS]

Oliver Solberg is lining up his WRC debut at Wales GB 2018. His plan is to combine his Latvian and Estonian championships with the ERC. It doesn't specific but I have to assume in the U27 championship as he's running a 208 with support from Peugeot Norway. And then he'll be 17 in time to do GB. Petter confirmed he wanted to do the GB reece this year but isn't old enough.

Can drivers run in ERC before they turn 17 then?

[Simmi]

Can drivers run in ERC before they turn 17 then?

I don't know - honestly I was quite surprised to see this. Exact wording of the article is:

[Solberg] has been competing in Latvia and Estonia this season and he will target both of those titles in 2018 with the aim of also contesting five rounds of the FIA European Rally Championship. Solberg's birthday comes on September 23, which would mean he will be 17 and eligible for a Rally GB entry next year.

[dimviii]

Becs Williams‏

Had an interesting chat with Hyundai's Michel Nandan this morning. Full story and podcast available on http://wrc.com* soon! #WRC

[BigWorm]

Colin Clark‏*@voiceofrally
Nice phone call with @DaniSordo this morning. Very pleased to see that we are still mates. Rally Catalunya can't come quick enough!

Just another rumour that

[dimviii]

lol

Eric Dobro Pictures @ericdobro
#WRC @SLefebvreRallye will be the driver who will be hired by @CitroenRacing in 2018 with the new C3 R5 in the wrc2 world championship.


Stéphane Lefebvre
Verified account
@SefebvreRallye
Ha good?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Nandon tells Becs 4 Car Team

[pantealex]

Can drivers run in ERC before they turn 17 then?

Kalle Rovanperä could´t but maybe with R2 in some countries ?

[AnttiL]

lol

Eric Dobro Pictures @ericdobro
#WRC @SLefebvreRallye will be the driver who will be hired by @CitroenRacing in 2018 with the new C3 R5 in the wrc2 world championship.


Stéphane Lefebvre
Verified account
@SefebvreRallye
Ha good?

I think we should note when copypasting machine translated material, there's usually something lost in translation, same with the Sordo/Clark tweets yesterday

Other than that, I think it would be good for Lefebvre to take a year off in WRC2. If he could win WRC2 in some rallies, it would do good for his confidence. Being the slowest WRC and crashing constantly is taking him nowhere.

[dimviii]

I think we should note when copypasting machine translated material, there's usually something lost in translation, same with the Sordo/Clark tweets yesterday

Other than that, I think it would be good for Lefebvre to take a year off in WRC2. If he could win WRC2 in some rallies, it would do good for his confidence. Being the slowest WRC and crashing constantly is taking him nowhere.

i don't thinh that something is lost in translation,just Lefebvre annoyed from Dobros post.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Today Ogier's twitter has him on holiday in New York.

Seeing that he wanted his future decided early, does this mean his 2018 is already sorted...

[racerx1979]

It means he is on holiday in New York

[mknight]

Well imagine the insane risk Matton would be taking by not "keeping" Mikkelsen if he wasn't very sure about getting Ogier. Tanak certainly won't go to Citroen and no other driver consistently faster than Breen/Lefevbre is available. The driver setup they had this year is clearly not good enough for multiple reasons.

[Rally Power]

What I don't understand here is your use of the word 'Brit'.

It’s quite simple; WRC radio journos are Brits working for an international media, with a worldwide audience. They tend to forget it and most of the time they act having just British public in mind.

[COD]

We are seeing something we haven't seen in years, drivers been sacked in middle of the season and replaced. Interesting but not nice for the drivers of course. But tells that teams are serious about the championship and also that there is one world class driver without a drive.
My guess is that Mikkelsen was guaranteed a contract to Hyundai 2018, so he decided to play it safe and not repeat what happened to him last year

[stefanvv]

We are seeing something we haven't seen in years, drivers been sacked in middle of the season and replaced.

May be Colin Clark can dedicate some episode over this issue?!?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It means he is on holiday in New York

OK, so sorting the deal with Citroen can wait... despite saying over and over he wants his future decided early ...

We'll see who's right.

[mknight]

We are seeing something we haven't seen in years, drivers been sacked in middle of the season and replaced. Interesting but not nice for the drivers of course. But tells that teams are serious about the championship and also that there is one world class driver without a drive.

I would blame this part combined with the VW exit getting known after all drivers had signed.

Even if you don't like Mikkelsen you have to admit he is among the top 6 drivers with best results for last 2 years (Ogier, Latvala, Tanak, Neuville, Meeke are the others). There are 12 factory seats now. Out of these 6 "other" drivers surely there will always be some that don't perform on a few rallies.

I dare say that if Latvala ended without a drive in 2017 it would be him jumping in and replacing drivers in very much the same way.

[stefanvv]

OK, so sorting the deal with Citroen can wait... despite saying over and over he wants his future decided early ...

We'll see who's right.

We all know what Ogier wants. Do we ?!?

[racerx1979]

OK, so sorting the deal with Citroen can wait... despite saying over and over he wants his future decided early ...

We'll see who's right.

He is probably going to Citroen, but you asked what his post means. He didn't say anything about Citroen. The guy needed a vacation.. I usually take a small break to sharpen the sword if I have a heavy mind. Maybe he is pondering his decision or just going on a vacay, or bangin his wife in NY... who cares. Assumptions...

[MrJan]

It’s quite simple; WRC radio journos are Brits working for an international media, with a worldwide audience. They tend to forget it and most of the time they act having just British public in mind.

I'm not sure that Clark and Desborough act with anyone in mind other than Kris Meeke, the man from Dungannon. I'm British and I'd like to see Meeke do well, but I find it very tiresome putting up with WRC coverage at the minute. I watched some old footage the other day from Rally GB 2000 and it was amazing how much I preferred it. And instead of Matt Wilson or Mark Webber commenting they had Ari Vatanen. Infinitely better IMO.

[mmm]

Well it was mentioned somewhere that Wilson is supposed to have a meeting with Ford at the end of September. If this is true then there will be few quiet weeks ahead..

[stefanvv]

I would blame this part combined with the VW exit getting known after all drivers had signed.

Even if you don't like Mikkelsen you have to admit he is among the top 6 drivers with best results for last 2 years (Ogier, Latvala, Tanak, Neuville, Meeke are the others). There are 12 factory seats now. Out of these 6 "other" drivers surely there will always be some that don't perform on a few rallies.

I dare say that if Latvala ended without a drive in 2017 it would be him jumping in and replacing drivers in very much the same way.

Mikkelsen clearly showed in Germany it was not the VW team was dominating "by miles" previous years. That puts many calculations wrong I guess. But, may be there was just that spark of "getting a chance" again, may be not. However Hyundai getting him that early is probably also a two way target - help Neuville to achieve his goal, and/or binding him for 2018 season. They won't be the losers at the end.....

[mknight]

That it was not just the car at VW was clear after Monte (in both WRC and R5) and Sweden in (WRC) were won by ex. VW drivers.

Hence why I claim that if it wasn't Mikkelsen replacing drivers and Latvala was without a seat he would be replacing them as instead.

But yes before the start of 2017 I can see that a few managers could have doubted how much the car had to say. Certainly in 2013-2014 the Polo was far faster, not so much last year.

[dimviii]

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11782-fia-reject-r5-paddleshift-gearbox-rule-change

[Essaj]

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11782-fia-reject-r5-paddleshift-gearbox-rule-change

Thank god

[GravelBen]

But yes before the start of 2017 I can see that a few managers could have doubted how much the car had to say. Certainly in 2013-2014 the Polo was far faster, not so much last year.

It was still clearly the fastest, strongest and most reliable car last year, just the advantage was smaller than the miles ahead it was in 2013-2015.

[GravelBen]

Mikkelsen clearly showed in Germany it was not the VW team was dominating "by miles" previous years.

Mikkelsen showed in Germany that the Citroen is competitive on tarmac, which we already knew. He also showed in Poland that it isn't so competitive on gravel, which we also already knew.

Anyone with eyes could see how dominant the VW team was from 2013-2015 (and to a lesser degree 2016), Mikkelsen's drives this year have told us nothing new about that.

[stefanvv]

Mikkelsen showed in Germany that the Citroen is competitive on tarmac

Loeb disagrees with You it is competitive on wet asphalt. I can't say anything about it.

[AnttiL]

OK, so sorting the deal with Citroen can wait... despite saying over and over he wants his future decided early ...

We'll see who's right.

Maybe his manager has been at full work all the time. This is the only part of the year when drivers can get the vacation.

But of course it's fun to speculate if Ogier took a detour in Dearborn

[Archie Gillaine]

Maybe his manager has been at full work all the time. This is the only part of the year when drivers can get the vacation.

But of course it's fun to speculate if Ogier took a detour in Dearborn

When I saw the photo on Twitter, I did think similar....though probably wrongly.... ;)

[mknight]

It was still clearly the fastest, strongest and most reliable car last year, just the advantage was smaller than the miles ahead it was in 2013-2015.

Overall it still looked a bit faster, but in a similar way the Hyundai looked a bit faster this year (until Finland). Anyway that's not the main point.

IF you look at VW drivers results last year and compare them to this year at same events in completely different cars they are very similar. Sometimes they are 1-2 positions down, sometimes not, but no constant 3-5 position drop.

[rhm]

IF you look at VW drivers results last year and compare them to this year at same events in completely different cars they are very similar. Sometimes they are 1-2 positions down, sometimes not, but no constant 3-5 position drop.

It's probably not the best to compare this years results with last year. Far too many variables, particularly the reliability of the cars this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[AnttiL]

Lefebvre annoyed from Dobros post.

https://twitter.com/SLefebvreRallye/status/905388278949478400

Dobro replies his information from PSA and Red Bull. Cruel, if this is how Lefebvre hears about his future.

And here he is testing the C3 R5 https://twitter.com/AS_PipoLopez/status/905719458819395586

[KKS]

Did Estonian language very similar to Finnish? ;)

[mknight]

It's probably not the best to compare this years results with last year. Far too many variables, particularly the reliability of the cars this year.



I am not talking about champ. points. I am talking about event vs event results.
Ex. Germany
2016 Ogier and Mikkelsen close to each other on Friday, then Ogier pulled away and Mikkelsen barely lost 2 (to Neuville) and 3 also with some brake issues. Latvala a bit behind but not much.
2017 Ogier and Mikkelsen again close to each other and on 2-3rd place with Neuville there, Ogier probably taking it easy Saturday afternoon, Latvala again a bit behind but not much (without technical issues)
(Tanak was on DMACK in 2016 so can't use him)

Clearly both years the same drivers are in top 5 +- a place or two.
Also on a few rallies Latvala has better pace this year than last year with Polo.

=> Polo wasn't the only reason VW drivers were in top 5 last year.

[AnttiL]

Did Estonian language very similar to Finnish? ;)

Yes, the languages were separated a long time ago, the basic structure is similar (and different to most other languages) with some same words. But not directly understandable to native speakers. My best friend is Estonian and we have to speak English with each other.

[KKS]

Yes, the languages were separated a long time ago, the basic structure is similar (and different to most other languages) with some same words. But not directly understandable to native speakers. My best friend is Estonian and we have to speak English with each other.
So Ott could make it in less of 4 weeks? :)

[AnttiL]

So Ott could make it in less of 4 weeks? :)

why in 4 weeks :eek:

[KiwiWRCfan]

Finnish website reports Jarmo Mahonen is retiring from his role as FIA Rally Director to seek Presidency of AKK Motorsport the national body of Finland http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000005356204.html

[sonnybobiche]

Finnish website reports Jarmo Mahonen is retiring from his role as FIA Rally Director to seek Presidency of AKK Motorsport the national body of Finland http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000005356204.html

Yep and Jarmo Lehtinen is tipped for the job. I suppose the reason he quit Toyota 6 months beforehand is to try to avoid any semblance of impropriety, which, honestly, LOL.

[AnttiL]

Yep and Jarmo Lehtinen is tipped for the job.

Really? I thought he left the job at Toyota to be more with his family. Working at FIA would mean traveling.

[MrJan]

Really? I thought he left the job at Toyota to be more with his family. Working at FIA would mean traveling.

Very rarely does someone leave a company for the reason that is told to the media.

[KKS]

why in 4 weeks :eek:
Mikkelsen try learn French in 4 weeks to join Hyundai in 2018, so I suppose that Ott require less than 4 weeks to learn Finnish to join Toyota in 2018 :)

[cali]

Mikkelsen try learn French in 4 weeks to join Hyundai in 2018, so I suppose that Ott require less than 4 weeks to learn Finnish to join Toyota in 2018 :)Usually estonians already know finnish quite well as our languages are very similar ;)

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[pantealex]

There is almost as many Estonian than Finnish people working in TMR/TGR, remember that most of action is in Estonia nowadays.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Matton: Signing Ogier is Citroen priority...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131688/signing-ogier-now-citroen-priority-for-2018

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJHsQtHXgAATUdS.jpg
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21457502_1436446553136266_8523800400545053562_o.jp g?oh=e76d95fe04586da57bd203da7352cd76&oe=5A4DD0A3
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21415029_1646305615414828_7212293266737289659_o.jp g?oh=2a70579e46e088ceea998fd675253250&oe=5A16DDA7

[AnttiL]

Mikkelsen try learn French in 4 weeks to join Hyundai in 2018, so I suppose that Ott require less than 4 weeks to learn Finnish to join Toyota in 2018 :)
I'm not sure if the language course was something he was doing anyways and was just pranking the sillyseason hunters. But for sure he was hinting of driving already in Spain (after 4 weeks), whereas Tänak will most likely not change teams before Spain.

[KKS]

it's all about 2018. And Tanak move to Toyota and Mikkelsen 3 rally for Hyundai. It's just warm-up and practive with a car for 2018

[Tarmop]

Tbh, you`re not making much sense. :D

But i haven`t seen this tweet here yet, maybe haven`t looked enough.
https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/905455360831565824