[WRC] News & Rumours (part V) 2017

[mknight]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/mikkelsen-very-sad-meeke-dropped-by-citroen-for-poland-924434/

Someone has big dreams

It's the same article as autosport.


Direct quote:"Andreas Mikkelsen is confident he and Kris Meeke could have challenged for the WRC manufacturers' title for Citroen if they had worked together all season."

So if anything it's more of criticism of Matton. Saying "you should have hired me in December".

I retrospective he is probably right. Whether they would fight for title is one thing, but clearly the car would get changed much earlier.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I accept that Mickey Mouse stages have been around for years, but at least a ponce around Chatsworth had some roads to it. A trotting track?! And at the end of a day messing around silly stages they headed north and a full rally of proper stages through places like Dalby and Kielder. Those are the stages that grab people.

But Watson is right, we're dinosaurs. Sport is consumed differently these days, gone is the time that you'd sit and watch rallying on Grandstand because there were only 4 channels.

I take your point absolutely re the Towyn 'SSS' .

A short 'proper' stage would be much better and would attract just as many fans. Like the SD in Poland today, hugely popular:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDe15roXgAAy1wk.jpg

I'm sure they could find a better alternative than this trotting track and in an accessible place.

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon‏*@HaydenPaddon
Tomorrow we will be hosting our Facebook live Q&A at 10am CET (8pm NZT) Get your questions in early at http://Facebook.com/haydenpaddonwrc* #paddonspack

[spiderem]

not sure if it's the correct thread but i wonder why Tanak is not backed up by Red Bull like 90% of the field (or almost)? they seem to sponsor lot less talented drivers now...

[USER47]

Interesting interview (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sport.cz%2Fmoto%2Frallye%2Fcla nek%2F896892-prokop-o-sezone-wrc-silena-karbonova-potvora-nas-dostala-na-hranici-moznosti.html&edit-text=) with Martin Prokop. Sorry for google translate, I know it doesn't work very well with Czech.

Apparently the team struggles quite a lot with new car, at least financially.

According to him the new Fiesta is hugely complicated, he had to hire bunch of additional engineers to work on it, and it's much more expensive to maintain and repair than the old car. From his statements it seems like they might not sustain the situation till the end of the season. I seem to remember they planned to have two 2017 Fiestas later this year, which is apparently off the table now.

Doesn't look like the 2017 WRC cars are very privateer friendly.

[noel157]

Interesting interview (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sport.cz%2Fmoto%2Frallye%2Fcla nek%2F896892-prokop-o-sezone-wrc-silena-karbonova-potvora-nas-dostala-na-hranici-moznosti.html&edit-text=) with Martin Prokop. Sorry for google translate, I know it doesn't work very well with Czech.

Apparently the team struggles quite a lot with new car, at least financially.

According to him the new Fiesta is hugely complicated, he had to hire bunch of additional engineers to work on it, and it's much more expensive to maintain and repair than the old car. From his statements it seems like they might not sustain the situation till the end of the season. I seem to remember they planned to have two 2017 Fiestas later this year, which is apparently off the table now.

Doesn't look like the 2017 WRC cars are very privateer friendly.

Does he mean hire tech people from M-Sport? Much like the old Subaru S10-12s etc? You could not look at one without a Prodrive (£500 a day) tech guy plugging his laptop in to get the car moving.....If so sounds like another of Malcolm's little earners.

[Eli]

Interesting interview (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sport.cz%2Fmoto%2Frallye%2Fcla nek%2F896892-prokop-o-sezone-wrc-silena-karbonova-potvora-nas-dostala-na-hranici-moznosti.html&edit-text=) with Martin Prokop. Sorry for google translate, I know it doesn't work very well with Czech.

Apparently the team struggles quite a lot with new car, at least financially.

According to him the new Fiesta is hugely complicated, he had to hire bunch of additional engineers to work on it, and it's much more expensive to maintain and repair than the old car. From his statements it seems like they might not sustain the situation till the end of the season. I seem to remember they planned to have two 2017 Fiestas later this year, which is apparently off the table now.

Doesn't look like the 2017 WRC cars are very privateer friendly.
Well they do cost €750,000 so... Makes a lot of sense... Shame really that the FIA isn't doing anything to help the situation, well I guess they don't really care do they? (please correct me if I am wrong).

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[Mirek]

Actually he did not say that the main problem is money (although he said it is very expensive) but the massive amount of work compared to the older car. He said that that his people are totally exhausted and that the team has to make a decision how to continue.

[USER47]

Does he mean hire tech people from M-Sport? Much like the old Subaru S10-12s etc? You could not look at one without a Prodrive (£500 a day) tech guy plugging his laptop in to get the car moving.....If so sounds like another of Malcolm's little earners.
Not sure if he got some people from M-Sport, but at least some guys came with Mads.

According to Prokop, there are troubles with engine, differentials...And all the carbon parts that break off easily on the stages and are very expensive to replace. They are big time over the budget and in the summer they need to sit down and decide how to proceed.

They are used to run quite an economical operation, but with this car it's just not possible, if it's supposed to run well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I do have sympathy with the Prokop/ Østberg team, but it was their choice to try to run with the big boys with a '17- spec car.

The ex-works 2016 cars were meant to be used by any privateers (hence getting their own Trophy) but they chose to try to run the latest car and finance was bound to be a much bigger issue..

[mknight]

Well FIA kinda tried with the WRC trophy and 2017 were supposed to be "factory only". But that would ruin the whole M-Sport business model, so they found a way around it.... and that in turn ruined the WRC trophy idea. Which was likely wrong from the start as teams are more likely to pick "aspiring" drivers from WRC2.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

not sure if it's the correct thread but i wonder why Tanak is not backed up by Red Bull like 90% of the field (or almost)? they seem to sponsor lot less talented drivers now...

Good question... maybe EstWRC has some idea ?

I'm not sure who his sponsors are and he doesnt have his own website.

[Mirek]

I do have sympathy with the Prokop/ Østberg team, but it was their choice to try to run with the big boys with a '17- spec car.

The ex-works 2016 cars were meant to be used by any privateers (hence getting their own Trophy) but they chose to try to run the latest car and finance was bound to be a much bigger issue..

Actually the interview isn't that negative like it may look from USER47's description. He said he was rather satisfied with the performance of Mads for example.

[mknight]

Actually the interview isn't that negative like it may look from USER47's description. He said he was rather satisfied with the performance of Mads for example.

He says Mads is fast enough for top 3..... ok

[nafpaktos]

I do have sympathy with the Prokop/ Østberg team, but it was their choice to try to run with the big boys with a '17- spec car.

The ex-works 2016 cars were meant to be used by any privateers (hence getting their own Trophy) but they chose to try to run the latest car and finance was bound to be a much bigger issue..

Although i dont think mads is something special as a driver i think he is good enough to drive a 2017 wrc and good for us.We have seen some really spectacular drive from him this year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Well FIA kinda tried with the WRC trophy and 2017 were supposed to be "factory only". But that would ruin the whole M-Sport business model, so they found a way around it.... and that in turn ruined the WRC trophy idea. Which was likely wrong from the start as teams are more likely to pick "aspiring" drivers from WRC2.

I dont think the M-Sport model was to sell 2017 cars but rather to run them for any wealthy privateers.

For some reason Jipocar wanted to do the whole thing themselves and now they are finding the drawbacks of doing so...

[dimviii]

Although i dont think mads is something special as a driver i think he is good enough to drive a 2017 wrc and good for us.We have seen some really spectacular drive from him this year.

Mads always was/is spectacular.

[EstWRC]

not sure if it's the correct thread but i wonder why Tanak is not backed up by Red Bull like 90% of the field (or almost)? they seem to sponsor lot less talented drivers now...

You are asking it at the right time. As we know Red Bull gives you wings and if they start backing Tänak then his wings won't fall off the car ;)

[AnttiL]

He says Mads is fast enough for top 3..... ok

He was second in Argentina after the first day. Then Neuville and Tänak passed him by driving and then he broke the rear suspension. In Sardegne he was also third for a couple of stages on friday but was again passed by Neuville, Tänak and Latvala by pure driving. Then he had a puncture on saturday and dropped further. But if you read his interviews, he says he lost top 3 positions because of misfortunes...

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130538/neuville-frustrated-rivals-let-ogier-get-podium

[mknight]

Well if you ignore the tabloid title and read further down, the article makes a good point of the fact that if anything Neuville could have pushed just a bit more on powerstage for easy points.

The PS result shows why it's a good idea not to have splits in the cars.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier: I'm no kamikaze - https://t.co/9F6sKuaunq https://t.co/fHFeCJMmLR

[Rally Power]

Ogier: I'm no kamikaze - https://t.co/9F6sKuaunq https://t.co/fHFeCJMmLR

Actually he was a bit kamikaze at Monte Carlo, but afterwards he was back to his '100% in control' driving. I doubt it'll be enough to resist Neuville.

[N.O.T]

Actually he was a bit kamikaze at Monte Carlo, but afterwards he was back to his '100% in control' driving. I doubt it'll be enough to resist Neuville.

Neuville will lose this champioship because he acted like an amateur in the first 2 rallies of the season... i cannot see him sustain this pace without mistakes.

Ford has the luxury to have tanak to keep neuville driving on the limit...

Ogier this year is a scared little garbage dog when it comes to speed.

[Franky]

N.O.T, is that a new dog breed in the kennel?

[N.O.T]

N.O.T, is that a new dog breed in the kennel?

yes and its only use is to provide fresh meat to the Hyundai dog eating crew...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Is Redbull popular in Estonia? Perhaps Tanak isn't much value to RB if the market is small...

[cali]

Is Redbull popular in Estonia? Perhaps Tanak isn't much value to RB if the market is small...
Can't see Red Bull being popular anywhere but it somehow is. The product itself is utter garbage but their marketing is phenonemal.

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[EstWRC]

Even if it is popular The market is small here anyway, don't forget that our population is just 1.3 million, France 66 million for example. But as far as I know our photographer Jaanus Ree is under Red Bull and our extreme skiing wonder kid Kelly Sildaru too but Red Bull has always been huge extreme sports supporter.

[GuestGermany]

Hi!

I´m a new member here. Have seen three trucks of the Abu Dhabi Citroen WRC Racing Team at Dortmund at about 08:00am local time in Dortmund today. They probably left the A40 (one of the german Autobahns which *are* a traffic jam, not where *there* *is* a traffic jam ;-) ) in order to escape a traffic jam. Does anybody know if there is a sponsor show near here or where they are heading to?

Regards,

Lutz

[pantealex]

Hi!

I´m a new member here. Have seen three trucks of the Abu Dhabi Citroen WRC Racing Team at Dortmund at about 08:00am local time in Dortmund today. They probably left the A40 (one of the german Autobahns which *are* a traffic jam, not where *there* *is* a traffic jam ;-) ) in order to escape a traffic jam. Does anybody know if there is a sponsor show near here or where they are heading to?

Regards,

Lutz

My guess would be: Testing for WRC Germany.

[GuestGermany]

My guess would be: Testing for WRC Germany.

Hi,

Germany is in far future, but perhaps they really use the time before Finland to get training in Germany...

Regards,

Lutz

[Eli]

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/poland-on-edge-of-wrc-axe/
Continuing the subject of safety & more specifically safe spectating

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/poland-on-edge-of-wrc-axe/
Continuing the subject of safety & more specifically safe spectating

The discussion is in the Rally Poland thread, mate.

[Eli]

The discussion is in the Rally Poland thread, mate.

Moved it there, cheers:)

[Steve Boyd]

Germany is in far future
But gives plenty of time to make and test new parts if they need them.

[AnttiL]

Most WRC tests are done a couple events in advance. Portugal tests were done before Argentina, some Finland tests were done before Sardegna.

[jbmarcus21]

11pts and 5 Rally to go .. Who will be the Next Rally Driver Champion ? CLICK & VOTE → http://bit.ly/2sJ5iHq

[dimviii]

interesting interview with Dick Cormack


http://online.anyflip.com/wocn/uutp/mobile/index.html#p=2

[Andre Oliveira]

Have DMACK money to help M-Sport secure Ogier?

[EstWRC]

lol, what are you on about?

[Simmi]

Have DMACK money to help M-Sport secure Ogier?

I'm still not sure how Dmack have got the money to be in the WRC. From everything I see, I'm not sure they could be there without being propped up by Malcolm.

[Andre Oliveira]

In interview, Cormack said that want M-Sport with all cars in DMACK in 2018

[EstWRC]

he said the same thing last year or was it even 2 years ago

[AnttiL]

In interview, Cormack said that want M-Sport with all cars in DMACK in 2018

Yeh, but supplying tyres is different to sponsoring a full team

[Andre Oliveira]

That is my question. I only see DMACK replacing Michelin with such amount of money

[Rally Power]

Wilson’s family trust owns 25% of DMack (it was reveled here on the forum last year), but beside their financial links probably MSport will only fully use them when they manage to match the Michelin’s in all terrains. Anyway, DMack’s improvement over the years has been quite impressive.

[Simmi]

Honestly, as much progress as Dmack are making, I think if you offered Ogier a deal on those tyres he walks away.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hayden Paddon‏ @HaydenPaddon
We got a little lost on stage 1 Rallye du Rouergue 2017

:D

https://youtu.be/rg6C9r_4940

[mknight]

Hayden Paddon‏ @HaydenPaddon
We got a little lost on stage 1 Rallye du Rouergue 2017

:D

https://youtu.be/rg6C9r_4940

Well he did very well in Poland, only driver without major off-road excursions or issues, which is good. He really needs to work on his Tarmac form though, so good they are doing that.

[AnttiL]

I made a table of manufacturer points scoring drivers for this season: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11tpCVFiwXlygWEMyOwRCb3EQjj5BaL0ckjMVxn6SgZI/pubhtml

The most interesting observation is that Lefebvre has actually been the biggest points scorer for Citroen.

[steve.mandzij]

Wow, Evans really far down.

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[AnttiL]

Wow, Evans really far down.

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It's tough to be better than Ogier or Tänak

[mknight]

I made a table of manufacturer points scoring drivers for this season: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11tpCVFiwXlygWEMyOwRCb3EQjj5BaL0ckjMVxn6SgZI/pubhtml

The most interesting observation is that Lefebvre has actually been the biggest points scorer for Citroen.

The difference to Breen is 2 points... if Breen was nominated for points in Monte where he ended 5th in DS3 he would be some 10? Points ahead. Yes it's not possible to nominate 2016 car.

[racerx1979]

Nice chart!

[EstWRC]

Tänak so close to Ogier even with two rounds without points? Very surprising

[AnttiL]

Tänak so close to Ogier even with two rounds without points? Very surprising

Ogier did not score manufacturer points in Argentina for being the third best Ford. And Tänak has scored manufacturer points in all events except Poland.

Furthermore, Latvala is the only one who has scored Manufacturer points in all events. Lefebvre in all events he has started in a 2017 car. All others have a some sort of zero result.

[mknight]

Tanak has 20% less points than Ogier, that's not really small difference.


Lefebvre in all events he has started in a 2017 car.

Yes but in 4 out of 5 cases this was after crashing out and finishing well below 10th place. Kinda shows the beauty of manu point scoring atm.

[PLuto]

I made a table of manufacturer points scoring drivers for this season: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11tpCVFiwXlygWEMyOwRCb3EQjj5BaL0ckjMVxn6SgZI/pubhtml

The most interesting observation is that Lefebvre has actually been the biggest points scorer for Citroen.

I have the same here: http://www.autosport.cz/souteze/bodovani.php?id=111&sk=494

But Lefebvre had advantage in events where he was starting. And "overtake" due to big points in Poland, where Craig lost due to technical issues and Lefebvre is so high due to disaster of Toyota, retirements of Tanak and poor performance of Evans and Mikkelsen.

[itix]

Wow, Evans really far down.

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To be fair, he has been hampered by his tires a couple of times this year, but he did do worse than Tänak on most rounds when they were in the same car with equal tires. I am pretty sure that most of us agree that Evans is in the mid range of drivers in the championship whereas Tänak and Ogier definitely are in the top.

[mknight]

It's very hard to compare Evans with anyone when he is the only car with different tyres (well Østberg had same in Portugal).

Depending on your angle every time he does good it has to be a tyre advantage (Monte tarmac stages, Argentina, Poland SSS 3x...) or every time he does bad it's not his fault cause he has bad tires.

However, I do like what Ogier said in Argentina: tyres can give you an advantage but you still need to be able to use it and drive at that speed.

[steve.mandzij]

It's very hard to compare Evans with anyone when he is the only car with different tyres (well Østberg had same in Portugal).

Depending on your angle every time he does good it has to be a tyre advantage (Monte tarmac stages, Argentina, Poland SSS 3x...) or every time he does bad it's not his fault cause he has bad tires.

However, I do like what Ogier said in Argentina: tyres can give you an advantage but you still need to be able to use it and drive at that speed.Asier from his tyres, Evans' inconsistency has always baffled me. I love the guy, but on one event he's challenging for the win and on the next he's barely in the top 8. It's always been that way too.

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[Simmi]

One for the MMA fans if there are any on the forum...

https://twitter.com/PontusTidemand/status/883694260977094656

Pontus Tidemand and UFC star Alexander Gustafsson - one of the best fighters in the world.

[MartijnS]

Ostberg and Floene parting ways!

http://www.madsostberg.no/Home/PressArticle/1136

[EightGear]

Wow. Didn't Floene leave Mikkelsen because Ostberg was able to provide more long term assurances?

Hmm.....

[AnttiL]

Østberg's career seems to be in a bit of a crisis...

[Munkvy]

Østberg's career seems to be in a bit of a crisis...

Does he have a career? I am not really sure what he does, who pays for him? Is it family?

[RS]

Is Redbull popular in Estonia? Perhaps Tanak isn't much value to RB if the market is small...

Isn't it banned in France? Yet they sponsor Ogier.

[Simmi]

Isn't it banned in France? Yet they sponsor Ogier.

It's been available for quite a few years now.



As for Mads - looks like Torstein will stay will Fredrik Ahlin for the remaining BRC rounds. They have a great shot to win that championship. Germany clashes with Ulster - so seems that Patrik Barth will be co-driving for Mads in Germany. Less pressure with the R5 car.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Tanak possibly to go to Toyota??? I don't think so

[bugwrx]

This could happen. I have no idea how much is Tanak getting paid driving in M-sport.

What i mean is, i belieave tanak has to start thinking of money. If Makinen offers him couple of millions, then this could happen.

[Simmi]

Interesting car Neuville is running at Eifel Rally. A weird '16/'17 WRC car hybrid.

https://youtu.be/Zjo7hmtA4p0?t=2m25s

[AnttiL]

TGR launches an EchoCam app/service. Take a pic with your smartphone on the stage of a TGR car, send it on the app and you'll receive an incar video clip of the same spot.

http://tgr-echocam.com/pc/

[OldF]

Antti, you was faster than I but I post my version as well.:)

Colin Clark‏ @voiceofrally 9m9 minutes ago
This is an enormously exciting innovation from @TOYOTA_GR and @Microsoft. Interesting to watch how this develops

A NEW SERVICE FOR WATCHING RALLY

“EchoCam is an entirely new service for watching rallies by utilizing the cloud system of Microsoft Co.Ltd., a technology partner of TOYOTA GAZOO Racing World Rally Team. The first trial of the EchoCam service will be launched at Neste Rally Finland in Jyväskylä, Finland from 27th July to 30th July 2017.

EchoCam is a service that "connects" rally fans and TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Yaris WRC. By submitting the best shot of the Yaris WRC snapped by smartphone from rally fans watching WRC at Rally Finland and submitting it on the special EchoCam webpage, fans will receive a video from the vehicle's onboard camera recorded simultaneously when the photo was taken.

"EchoCam" is a new way for fans to enjoy motor sports utilizing the latest technologies.

Get connected with Yaris WRC and enjoy an entirely new service for watching rally!”

http://toyotagazooracing.com/wrc/echocam/2017/

EchoCam WEBSITE
http://tgr-echocam.com/pc/

“EchoCam will be available at Neste Rally Finland in Jyväskylä, Finland beginning July 27, 2017.”

[Zeakiwi]

Says on the Eifel Rallye Festival 2017 entry list - Neuville's car is a 2016 WRC Hyundai i20.
http://www.eifel-rallye-festival.de/en/news-en.html

[tomhlord]

Interesting car Neuville is running at Eifel Rally. A weird '16/'17 WRC car hybrid.

https://youtu.be/Zjo7hmtA4p0?t=2m25s

So weird. Like a 2016 car, but 3-door and with '17 aero.

[steve.mandzij]

TGR launches an EchoCam app/service. Take a pic with your smartphone on the stage of a TGR car, send it on the app and you'll receive an incar video clip of the same spot.

http://tgr-echocam.com/pc/Will anybody be there to try it out?

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[sonnybobiche]

Boy, that is genuinely innovative and clever. Between Red Bull's coverage and Toyota's approach, it almost feels like Liberty Media have taken over WRC as well as F1. There's that vague sense that things are getting better rather than worse, isn't there?

[Zeakiwi]

Is that Neuville Hyundai - Eiffel Rallye Festival - a 2016 i20 WRC 3 door that was started then HWRT had to change to the 5 door car because there were problems at the factory meaning there were not enough 3 doors road cars built for homolgation?

[AnttiL]

The Finnish yellow papers are full of headlines about Jari-Matti Latvala's depression last year

[Simmi]

Is that Neuville Hyundai - Eiffel Rallye Festival - a 2016 i20 WRC 3 door that was started then HWRT had to change to the 5 door car because there were problems at the factory meaning there were not enough 3 doors road cars built for homolgation?

It's definitely confused me. According to ewrc it's certainly never rallied competitively before. Looking at the numberplate it's sort of between the '16 and '17 cars, so I wonder whether this was the initial mule car maybe when they started testing? It's got 2017 headlights and rear wing but not much else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7kKfuPFRzQ

[BigWorm]

Is that Neuville Hyundai - Eiffel Rallye Festival - a 2016 i20 WRC 3 door that was started then HWRT had to change to the 5 door car because there were problems at the factory meaning there were not enough 3 doors road cars built for homolgation?

I think that car is just a mash up by Hyundai for this event, that rear spoiler it has is the 2017 spec and would have surely been illegal to use in 2016.

[Mrpengski]

All good guesses, here is the final hint.

https://cdn-7.motorsport.com/images/mgl/Y9v13D76/s8/wrc-hyundai-i20-wrc-2017-testing-2016-hyundai-i20-wrc-2017-testing.jpg

[olemann]

Fun and follow the wrc drivers of the future today (both sixteen and fifteen) and tomorrow we will see if they still have the goal in sight. Looks very good today. http://www.autorally.lv/

[Lundefaret]

It's definitely confused me. According to ewrc it's certainly never rallied competitively before. Looking at the numberplate it's sort of between the '16 and '17 cars, so I wonder whether this was the initial mule car maybe when they started testing? It's got 2017 headlights and rear wing but not much else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7kKfuPFRzQ

I think you are right.
I was at the factory to check out the R5 car, and there we saw what i am very sure is this car - then in white.
It was meant to be the WRC car, but as you say - regulations forced them to use the 5-door.
It then did work as the "mule" for the 17 car.

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/07/25/latvala-und-toyota-sind-sich-fuer-2018-einig/ Latvala has signed a deal for 2018 with Toyota, has anyone else heard anything?

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/07/25/latvala-und-toyota-sind-sich-fuer-2018-einig/ Latvala has signed a deal for 2018 with Toyota, has anyone else heard anything?

Timo Jouhki says they have a contract in this Finnish interview: http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/Se-tuli-kuin-pommi-syliin-Auttoiko-yll%C3%A4tysk%C3%A4%C3%A4nne-Latvalan-tielle-kohti-mestaruutta/1019021?pwbi=eb765ce3a723cf8d5e5a84621c7eef17

[jbmarcus21]

PSA Group announce that Loeb will test C3WRC 2017 soon → http://bit.ly/2eNbMis

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon‏*@HaydenPaddon
This week is a special week for John as we celebrate our 12 years together! He has and will continue to play a huge part.Thanks @JKCoDriver


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFrEAf9W0AE27XH.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFrEAf8WsAAGsxh.jpg

[gorganl2000]

PSA Group announce that Loeb will test C3WRC 2017 soon → http://bit.ly/2eNbMis

it's about time

[Mk2 RS2000]

Hayden Paddon‏*@HaydenPaddon
This week is a special week for John as we celebrate our 12 years together! He has and will continue to play a huge part.Thanks @JKCoDriver


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFrEAf9W0AE27XH.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFrEAf8WsAAGsxh.jpg

Magic stuff JK but remember that there is no rest for the wicked for there have been some wicked times over the years that your fellow Kiwi competitors have thoroughly enjoyed with you.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGNj8ssW0AAKTyf?format=jpg&name=large

[mknight]

Expected, and kind of deserved. After terrible start of season he did mostly ok. Very uneven speedwise (tires?) but clearly some highs.

I do have a feeling that the speed is not the main reason for this deal though. It's more about Evans/sponsors actually paying for the drive instead of M-Sport having to pay him. Well, looks like better option than Camilli anyway.

[AnttiL]

Securing Evans sounds like Ogier or Tänak is going away.

[seb_sh]

Securing Evans sounds like Ogier or Tänak is going away.

Maybe, maybe not. He is a good driver to have in a 3 car team, especially MSport as I think he brings some budget. Even if Ogier and Tanak stay Evans is the best option for the full year 3rd car. If they manage to keep only 1 of Tanak or Ogier then they can promote Suninen, if both of them go they could get Mikkelsen alongside Evans and Suninen. It also depends what DMACK do next year. There are a lot of unknowns but I think keeping him is a solid move from MSport.

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe we will have 3 M-Sport Michelin and 1/2 M-Sport DMACK

[MrJan]

Ogier seems to be making noises that he's staying with M-Sport, bit odd seeing as he hasn't got on with the car as well as Tanak or even Evans (who has clearly struggled with tyres on some events). Can't really see the article but does it say that Evans will be with the top M-Sport or will he still be in the DMACK car?

[seb_sh]

Ogier seems to be making noises that he's staying with M-Sport

what did he say to make you think that? I've only heard him say is that he wants a manufacturer backed team and he wants to know what he's doing early, not like last year.

[MrJan]

what did he say to make you think that? I've only heard him say is that he wants a manufacturer backed team and he wants to know what he's doing early, not like last year.

Can't remember what it was, just that I was surprised by it because I thought he'd be looking elsewhere.

[rallyfiend]

I'm not sure that Ogier has many options.
Same with Andreas.

At least M-Sport seems to want Ogier.

[EstWRC]

FIA to take control of WRC chicane rules after Rally Finland row

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/131120/fia-to-take-control-of-wrc-chicane-use


The controversial use of chicanes in the World Rally Championship will be regulated by the FIA following complaints from the drivers at last week's Rally Finland.

Chicanes were added to the Finland route for the first time since 1987, but their deployment drew strong criticism from the drivers.

Complaints included a lack of room in the chicane and entry points that were confusing at rally speed.

The FIA said the event organiser was responsible for the implementation of the chicanes, but a source within Rally Finland was equally keen to shift the blame back to the governing body.

"If the FIA wasn't happy with the way the chicanes were set out, then they should have been there when we put them out to check them," said the source.

FIA rally director Jarmo Mahonen has confirmed the governing body will write a regulation directing events in how to lay chicanes out on future events.

"I agree with the drivers, nobody likes the chicanes," he said.

"But we have to do something when, in some places, the cars are going for 48 seconds without lifting at all from the top gear.

"But to stop the cars completely was not the intention.

"The chicanes in Finland have been built too tight and now we have to find a balance and we have to write the regulation: how do we make these chicanes, how many metres apart and this kind of thing so they are the same everywhere."



Teemu Suninen was the highest profile victim of the Finland chicanes.

M-Sport's rookie driver missed the second chicane on Ouninpohja while in the podium fight on Saturday and dropped 20s turning the car around to come back past the barrier.

Suninen, like the rest of the drivers, admitted he was baffled by the chicanes' purpose.

"I don't feel they make our lives more safe," he told Autosport.

"Sometimes it's hard to see where you go in the chicane and there's no room to escape if you miss it.

"When the stages are flowing nicely, I think it is more dangerous to stop the flow like this."

Even with the chicanes in place, the event became the fastest in WRC history, with Esapekka Lappi's winning average of 78.73mph edging him fractionally ahead of Kris Meeke's 78.66mph from last year.

Teams estimate without the chicanes the average speed would have been close to 85mph.

[AnttiL]

Lappi's actual final average speed was 126.1 km/h, a bit slower than Meeke's 126.6 km/h. There was some initial confusion because some average speeds were calculated with Rally Guide 1 stage lengths, not the actual lengths. But roughly the route changed the same amount slower as the new cars became faster. Difference between winning WRC car and winning R5 car was doubled.

Some stages (Saalahti and Lempää) were run exactly as last year, and the winning times were about one second to kilometre faster than last year. If that applied to the whole 330 km route, it would make 5,5 minutes of advance. If we take 5,5 minutes off Kris Meeke's 2016 result, that would make it a 131 km/h average speed, with last year's route and this year's cars.

[sonnybobiche]

*sigh*... the sequence is always the same.

Industrious, passionate locals organize a successful event. International group of bureaucrats take over said event because they're the "experts". Bureaucrats slowly destroy the event through a combination of ineptitude, disinterest, political correctness, and ambition. The formerly successful event fails. International group of bureaucrats move on to their next victim.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mads Østberg has just quit ERC Rally Rzeszów.

Said he was scared on high speed sections of steering failure on his R5 like yesterday. Rallying is now just for fun and he is not wanting to risk his life.

He clearly has bigger priotities now he's a father.

[AnttiL]

Mads Østberg has just quit ERC Rally Rzeszów.

Said he was scared on high speed sections of steering failure on his R5 like yesterday.

Power steering, not all steering

[RS]

Mads Østberg has just quit ERC Rally Rzeszów.

Said he was scared on high speed sections of steering failure on his R5 like yesterday. Rallying is now just for fun and he is not wanting to risk his life.

He clearly has bigger priotities now he's a father.

Sounds like the beginning of his retirement..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Listening live on rally radio it was quite shocking. He gave the most brutally honest stage-end interview I think I've ever heard.

This was the gist:
Absolutely no joy, I'm afraid of what happened yesterday. I don't want to drive this car anymore, I don't feel good in high speed. Big trees all around, if you lose the power-steering...
I don't enjoy this at all, I'm scared all the time. It's too dangerous. Might have to park-up...
I want to die at home, not in Poland.

[NoName]

Listening live on rally radio it was quite shocking. He gave the most brutally honest stage-end interview I think I've ever heard.

This was the gist:
Absolutely no joy, I'm afraid of what happened yesterday. I don't want to drive this car anymore, I don't feel good in high speed. Big trees all around, if you lose the power-steering...
I don't enjoy this at all, I'm scared all the time. It's too dangerous. Might have to park-up...
I want to die at home, not in Poland.

Don't need to say anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLVyRAt2cxbxuA5g4wgTUXtNpyKTMGuLLr&v=knKvG2WmRMQ

[SubaruNorway]

Sounds like the beginning of his retirement..

You don't need to be a genius to understand why he retired, have you seen Sordo's off out of nowhere in Monte?

[RS]

You don't need to be a genius to understand why he retired, have you seen Sordo's off out of nowhere in Monte?

I was talking more about the 'rallying is just for fun now' comment.

Clearly the power steering problems were real having seen the onboard from leg one.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe Mads also saw all the bad crashes that were happening in the rally (for driver's whose car's didnt have sudden steering problems !)...

[Eli]

http://mmuk.realviewdigital.com/?iid=154760#folio=40

In the section below it says, Turkey is a near certainty coming back to the calendar (assuming the political situation stable) Croatia might be added while NZ has only an outside chance of returning. That FIA must be quite corrupt if they let Turkey in & NZ out?! Totally lost their minds imho.

[AnttiL]

http://mmuk.realviewdigital.com/?iid=154760#folio=40

In the section below it says, Turkey is a near certainty coming back to the calendar (assuming the political situation stable) Croatia might be added while NZ has only an outside chance of returning. That FIA must be quite corrupt if they let Turkey in & NZ out?! Totally lost their minds imho.

An earlier news article stated that Turkey would return but not yet in 2018, whereas NZ and Croatia were the contenders to replace China in 2018.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129337

EDIT: Now there's an autosport article as well saying NZ is not gonna get in... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/131152/turkey-croatia-closing-on-2018-wrc-dates

[JUF]

EDIT: Now there's an autosport article as well saying NZ is not gonna get in... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/131152/turkey-croatia-closing-on-2018-wrc-dates
Turkey. Honestly? Well, as we all know FIA doesn´t care about politics. If there are F1 races in Russia, the UAE or Azerbaijan why not choosing Turkey as a venue for a WRC round? Very good idea! I´m sure there will be many fans from other countries who want to come to a country where human rights are so important like they are in Turkey!

[macebig]

$$$. That's all FIA sees. You pay, you can have a race/rally. You don't, well tough luck...

[mmm]

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/wrc/wrc-drivers-and-teams-against-turkey-s-return_sto5919227/story.shtml
Interesting situation

[aykutbilir]

Turkey hosted this event 6 times
They do it at China and now you are talking about Human rights?


Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone araclyla gönderildi

[JUF]

Turkey hosted this event 6 times

Yes, but in 2010 when the rally was hosted for the last time the situation has not been as critical as today.



They do it at China and now you are talking about Human rights?


You are right, it´s a long list of countries who impinge on human rights. And as much as I criticize a round in Turkey, I would criticize a round in China if this would take place.

[aykutbilir]

Like last year and just canceled cause of flood

Anyway
I really dont care if we have WRC or not
I will nice to watch lastest cars here at home for sure but it never make a plus rallying at national level.



Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone araclyla gönderildi

[Rally Power]

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/wrc/wrc-drivers-and-teams-against-turkey-s-return_sto5919227/story.shtml
Interesting situation

That's almost a one year old article. Situation has gladly improved. If they managed to get back WRC alongside F1 (the last is almost certain), that's a huge achievement for Turkey. Still, it's a shame not to have NZ back.

[mmm]

That's almost a one year old article. Situation has gladly improved. If they managed to get back WRC alongside F1 (the last is almost certain), that's a huge achievement for Turkey. Still, it's a shame not to have NZ back.

Saying things have improved is optimistic. I agree that the chance for immediate danger right now is lower, but overall they are heading the wrong way - this was especially highlighted by their referendum this spring.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

More European (gravel) rallies ? How exciting. NOT.

This is the WRC... we already have an ERC & TER.

[Simmi]

$$$. That's all FIA sees. You pay, you can have a race/rally. You don't, well tough luck...

Isn't it the promoter who puts forward the calendar. And the FIA just ratify it?

I said it a few months ago, the Croatia inclusion stinks: http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/april-2017/croatia-visit/page/4474--12-12-.html

[Essaj]

More European (gravel) rallies ? How exciting. NOT.

This is the WRC... we already have an ERC & TER.

But ERC and TER have almost no value at all so why should WRC guys care about them at all?
Lets think a bit.
Of course North American event would be nice but I don't think its going to happen until they start to have their own R2's and R5'sc cars etc.
I would also love to see NZ back but we don't know whats actually going on there and why it's currently looking that we're not going to see them yet atleast next year.
Asian or African event would be something that most manufacturers probably would like to have but we all remember how China worked out. Also I havent heard about safari for a while so I guess it's not coming back either atleast in a near future.
Then if Poland now has to be skipped we have room for 1 more European gravel rally so why not do it in Turkey if it's safe enough.

What else do we have available? "the new event" needs to be good enough rally to be in WRC, it needs to be safe, it has to have some value to the manufacturers and it also have to have strong-ish local scene or atleast good compination of those to work and I don't see any of those happening anywhere else.

[aykutbilir]

More European (gravel) rallies ? How exciting. NOT.

This is the WRC... we already have an ERC & TER.

No crew on ERC cares gravel events check the entry list



Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone araclyla gönderildi

[racerx1979]

The whole NZ thing seems very bizarre to me. It seems like the only event which is prepared to be in the 2018 schedule. They're holding a candidate event a week after rally Aus.

From the http://www.rallynz.org.nz/ website:


With the prospect of being back in the calendar, the team @ RallyNZ are working hard to be hosting the worlds biggest motorsport event here in Tauranga, New Zealand, in 2018.

[Essaj]

The whole NZ thing seems very bizarre to me. It seems like the only event which is prepared to be in the 2018 schedule. They're holding a candidate event a week after rally Aus.

From the http://www.rallynz.org.nz/ website:


With the prospect of being back in the calendar, the team @ RallyNZ are working hard to be hosting the worlds biggest motorsport event here in Tauranga, New Zealand, in 2018.

There must be something going on background. NZ would be perfect canditate to have next years free spot.

[steve.mandzij]

I used to love rally Turkey. Really, after Bulgaria and Jordan, it probably can't get worse than that.



Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No crew on ERC cares gravel events check the entry list



They dont like them either !

[Fast Eddie WRC]

But ERC and TER have almost no value at all so why should WRC guys care about them at all?



No, I'm speaking as a fan, a spectator. There are enough European gravel rallies.

This WRC situation is a chance for more variety... in conditions and countries. It is meant to be a World Championship after all...

[Eli]

Or at least if they add another European Rally make it a Tarmac event, if not, add NZ already!!!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[focus206]

No, I'm speaking as a fan, a spectator. There are enough European gravel rallies.

This WRC situation is a chance for more variety... in conditions and countries. It is meant to be a World Championship after all...

Well, would it be based in Istanbul? The majority of past editions were based in the Asian part, so not a European rally. But I agree that there are other rallies I'd rather see in the calendar...

[aykutbilir]

From inside info that WRC will be around Marmaris bay area which is a touristic part at south
We raced last year a draft of possible stages which are really rough and crazy :)
We will see this year addition


Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone araclyla gönderildi

[Sch17]

Here is Marmaris Rally Turkey 2016 English review from RacingAction, if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/4Xs0VEF8B70

[seb_sh]

I think it's important at this point to choose events that bring some kind of value (other than a payed fee) to the championship. That can mean a interesting or unique event (either by surface or geography) or an event in a market that justifies the budget to go there. I hope they don't do the same mistake as in mid 2000's to add more events that leads to fewer cars, MSport and it seems also Citroen already have budget problems. I think it's better to have more top level cars than more rallies.

NZ would be nice as it's an iconic rally but Turkey was also interesting when it was part of the WRC. Japan would be interesting as well especially now since Toyota is back.

[aykutbilir]

I personally love NZ stages they are uniqie.



Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone araclyla gönderildi

[cali]

But for the teams NZ is expensive. I personally love to see NZ back.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[racerx1979]

From Hayden Paddons twitter

@HaydenPaddon
RALLY FANS please RT this to show what the fans + WRC want/need - Rally New Zealand! This is a last ditch effort, it's now or never #2018

[racerx1979]

It's expensive for sure, but if it's after or before Australia it would make sense. I'm assuming Australia would be on its way out if NZ is not on the calendar. As long as we have a few events outside of Europe such as Mexico and Argentina it's good.

I for one would never spectate Australia after spectating Finland, Mexico or Germany. It's the worst rally I've been to spectating wise.

[Eli]

Here is Marmaris Rally Turkey 2016 English review from RacingAction, if you guys are interested: https://youtu.be/4Xs0VEF8B70

It reminds me a bit of Cyprus, but IMHO Cyprus is a lot tougher...still annoyed though that they took away NZ like that, who knows when NZ will be back.

[aykutbilir]

It reminds me a bit of Cyprus, but IMHO Cyprus is a lot tougher...still annoyed though that they took away NZ like that, who knows when NZ will be back.

Last year have unexpected rain for two days and things get weird
A little Cyprus A little Acropol Lots of Kemer Wrc from 2008 if someone remember


Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone araclyla gönderildi

[racerx1979]

Turkey rally location seems beautiful!

[tommeke_B]

MSport and it seems also Citroen already have budget problems.
???

[tomhlord]

There must be something going on background. NZ would be perfect canditate to have next years free spot.

Money, I suspect. A bit of government support can go a long way.

Do the events pay the promoter for their inclusion?

[Zeakiwi]

Cyprus if it can not go to NZ.
Gronholm and Sainz 2001 https://youtu.be/Ri8thRySMLY?t=11m39s
https://youtu.be/eXeCLayD1PA?t=24m12s (2000 cyprus) 24.40 Colin wearing shorts and t shirt on stages.

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/08/08/wm-2018-kroatien-statt-polen/
I know it isn't any new news, but it does say that Estonia has intentions of it's own to run instead of Poland and it seems that NZ won't be there next year, because it's too expensive.... well how about they just drop Australia for crying out loud and put NZ where it belongs...I mean come on 27 entries last year? and since it's not in Perth it's not even close to be a unique event like NZ. But hey this is the World Rally Championship, so what if they have 10 European events, as long as the other 3 are outside Europe it's a world championship right???

[JUF]

As much as I like a new round outside of Europe we have to consider three things:

1. Which round outside of Europe which is not running right now has a real tradition in WRC? New Zealand and Safari probably, Japan as well... But it's a very short list! And I don't want to lose a round in Europe. Poland maybe, but anything else would be a real loss!
2. If a 14th, 15th or 16th round would be added to the calendar it could happen that M-Sport and Citroën leave the WRC. This can't be our aim...
3. There are only a few, few countries outside of Europe who have got a local rally scene. Some in South America (such as Argentina or Paraguay), New Zealand and Australia indeed, the championships in the US and in South Africa are a joke... I may have forgotten some (China, Lebanon...), but definitely not
many!

So to be honest, I would like to see the calendar to stay like it is. Australia could be replaced with New Zealand, they could move to Sanremo instead of Sardinia, but that's pretty much it! At least that's my opinion... Others are more than welcome!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

:)
Teenage rally sensation @KalleRovanpera is in talks with @MSportLtd over handling a Fiesta R5 on @WalesRallyGB https://t.co/ijw0aPmT5y https://t.co/FBcQw9KNn5

[dimviii]

Yazeed and his new car
http://www.zougla.gr/automoto/paraxena/article/8eloume-ke-emis-tetio-doro

[steve.mandzij]

Yazeed and his new car
http://www.zougla.gr/automoto/paraxena/article/8eloume-ke-emis-tetio-doroHe better not crash that one

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[Simmi]

Colin Clark speculating about Citroen, but more interesting views about the calendar.

https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/videos/800934163402582/

Not really heard this argument much before but he's advocating (for now) a 'chequebook calendar' of sorts - where new rallies pay to be in the championship. But that extra funding allows WRC Promoter more funds to actually promote the sport (and turn a profit), like in F1.

Then he says Ciesla's long-term vision (2020 and beyond) is 16 rounds - 8 European rounds, 4 in the Americas, and 4 in Asia/Australasia. A true world championship.

So if they can grow the championship and somehow get the teams onboard with major global expansion then it kind of makes sense. Albeit you'll need to eventually cut 2-3 European rallies to make that all fit.

[focus206]

Then he says Ciesla's long-term vision (2020 and beyond) is 16 rounds - 8 European rounds, 4 in the Americas, and 4 in Asia/Australasia. A true world championship.

Ciesla always says this stuff. 16 events are too many, even the teams said that more than once. I agree that the World Championship should be less Euro-centric, but let's be honest, what are the alternatives? 4 rounds in Asia/Australasia is really the maximum I can think of: Australia, NZ, maybe Turkey if it's in the Asian part and maybe a round from APRC (Japan, Malaysia, Thailand?). 4 in the Americas sound too many: Argentina, Mexico (not a fan of it but alright) and then? North American rally scene is very poor. Another one in South America (Chile, Paraguay)? I'd rather have 2 in America and 1 in Africa, but we know the situations in Kenya and South Africa.
1 or 2 European rounds can go but I'd rather have a quality Euro-centric WRC than rallies with a couple of entries in countries with 0 tradition. (the ones I've mentioned all have decent national championships and tradition, but I remember there were talks for the future about India, Korea...)

[AndyRAC]

16 rounds is surely unworkable? And it's not going to please the teams with regards to budgets. Cut your cloth accordingly....

I, like others would rather see 10-12 proper high quality events that show this sport in the best light. Rather than 16 identikit events, some of which are only in because of £$£$£$ - and some events don't get in.

[mknight]

Colin Clark speculating about Citroen

https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/videos/800934163402582/


1. So much Meeke fanboy stuff...... "Kris Meeke is a winner, proven by winning 3 times in last 16 months"++. Sure but you don't win championship with that reliability level, this year is very much repeat of his 2014, really unlikely he will suddenly get reliable (though look at Latvala). Also the comments about development and not a single word about Finland. Well I'll leave here....

2. "Loeb will be as fast as when he left." I can't see that. Sure he would be top 3 on Monte, Corsica, Germany, Spain (can use Sordo as reference)... but on gravel I don't think so. Furthermore I can't really see him doing all rounds with 18 hour days and 50+ deg in the car during stages. Bringing him for a few rounds per year for PR, feedback and some teampoints, sure good idea. Bringing him for full year not good PR for either Citroen or Loeb in the long run... that said the signals clearly are out that it's possible.

[AnttiL]

So much Meeke fanboy stuff......

At least he admitted he's a huge Citroen, Meeke and Loeb fan.

I also agree about Loeb. I could see him do testing and maybe one off rallies, but not a whole season.

[rallyfiend]

Ciesla always says this stuff. 16 events are too many, even the teams said that more than once. I agree that the World Championship should be less Euro-centric, but let's be honest, what are the alternatives? 4 rounds in Asia/Australasia is really the maximum I can think of: Australia, NZ, maybe Turkey if it's in the Asian part and maybe a round from APRC (Japan, Malaysia, Thailand?). 4 in the Americas sound too many: Argentina, Mexico (not a fan of it but alright) and then? North American rally scene is very poor. Another one in South America (Chile, Paraguay)? I'd rather have 2 in America and 1 in Africa, but we know the situations in Kenya and South Africa.
1 or 2 European rounds can go but I'd rather have a quality Euro-centric WRC than rallies with a couple of entries in countries with 0 tradition. (the ones I've mentioned all have decent national championships and tradition, but I remember there were talks for the future about India, Korea...)

Isn't Colin a paid employee / contractor of WRC Promoter through his work with Rally Radio?

None of this should be a surprise that he's a bit of a mouthpiece for their PR spin...

[AnttiL]

http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/mm-ralli/neste-ralli/Gr%C3%B6nholm-ei-usko-suurmestarin-paluuseen-Ei-Loeb-uskalla-tulla-takaisin/1026010?pwbi=984031a26bea26d8e2495295b69f847e

Grönholm interview in Finnish. He says he does not believe Loeb would return to competition, because it's so tight nowadays. He also talks about testing the VW 2017 car last year and then he is asked how does it compare to the Yaris which he drove in the Rally Finland as a promotional run. He grins "I shouldn't compare them" and says "Toyota has a very good car. There was a lot of doubt in the beginning of the year but they've done a great job". I'm reading between the lines that he thinks the Polo would have been a lot better...

[Hartusvuori]

http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/mm-ralli/neste-ralli/Gr%C3%B6nholm-ei-usko-suurmestarin-paluuseen-Ei-Loeb-uskalla-tulla-takaisin/1026010?pwbi=984031a26bea26d8e2495295b69f847e

Grönholm interview in Finnish. He says he does not believe Loeb would return to competition, because it's so tight nowadays. He also talks about testing the VW 2017 car last year and then he is asked how does it compare to the Yaris which he drove in the Rally Finland as a promotional run. He grins "I shouldn't compare them" and says "Toyota has a very good car. There was a lot of doubt in the beginning of the year but they've done a great job". I'm reading between the lines that he thinks the Polo would have been a lot better...

Grönholm did VIP runs on city stage (about 10 kms totals) and short shakedown on tarmac (comparerable to parking lot), he really doesn't have the experience to compare those two cars at the moment.

[mknight]

Grönholm did VIP runs on city stage (about 10 kms totals) and short shakedown on tarmac (comparerable to parking lot), he really doesn't have the experience to compare those two cars at the moment.

Surely he can have some impressions specially in terms of balance, low speed handling etc.

VW spend basically whole 2016 testing the 2017 Polo with no development and nearly no testing at all for the old car. Since they at that point still had the biggest budget + Gronholm, Ogier, Latvala and Mikkelsen doing the testing I don't think anyone can doubt the car would be at worst comparable with Ford/Hyundai in Monte.

Could have ended totally dominating like they did in 2014 though, so in a way it might be good they left. Too bad we couldn't get some privately run Polos for some rallies at least.

[rallyfiend]

16 rounds is surely unworkable? And it's not going to please the teams with regards to budgets. Cut your cloth accordingly....

I, like others would rather see 10-12 proper high quality events that show this sport in the best light. Rather than 16 identikit events, some of which are only in because of £$£$£$ - and some events don't get in.

But if the teams are getting paid for the events, isn't this the ultimate answer for expanding the calendar?

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe something like:

• Europe
Monte-Carlo - Tarmac/Snow
Sweden - Snow
Portugal - Mix
Finland - Gravel
Tour de Corse - Tarmac
Catalunya - Tarmac
Sanremo - Mix
Wales - Gravel

• America
Canada - Snow
Paraguay - Transchaco
Argentina - Gravel
Chile - Gravel

• Asia
Japan - Tarmac
New Zealand - Gravel
Jordan - Gravel
Australia - Gravel

[AnttiL]

Maybe something like:

• Europe
Monte-Carlo - Tarmac/Snow
Sweden - Snow
Portugal - Mix
Tour de Corse - Tarmac
Catalunya - Tarmac
Sanremo - Mix
Wales - Gravel

• America
Canada - Snow
Paraguay - Transchaco
Argentina - Gravel
Chile - Gravel

• Asia
Japan - Tarmac
New Zealand - Gravel
Jordan - Gravel
Australia - Gravel

You would replace Mexico with Paraguay or Chile? And wasn't Japan a gravel event when it was held the last time? And no Finland, there's really no other gravel rally that is as fast as Finland.

I'd rather have something like 9 European + 3 N/S American + 3 Australoasian events + 1 African event (if possible)

[EstWRC]

What? dont you even dare to let Finland out! Finland will never go away! a true WRC rally

[tommeke_B]

Maybe something like:

• Europe
Monte-Carlo - Tarmac/Snow
Sweden - Snow
Portugal - Mix
Tour de Corse - Tarmac
Catalunya - Tarmac
Sanremo - Mix
Wales - Gravel

• America
Canada - Snow
Paraguay - Transchaco
Argentina - Gravel
Chile - Gravel

• Asia
Japan - Tarmac
New Zealand - Gravel
Jordan - Gravel
Australia - Gravel

Enough internet for today...

[Andre Oliveira]

Eheh 7 rounds ;) i missed the eight ofcourse

[Andre Oliveira]

Enough internet for today...

So tell me your vision of Calendar with 8 rounds in Europe, 4 in America and 4 in Asia

[Andre Oliveira]

You would replace Mexico with Paraguay or Chile? And wasn't Japan a gravel event when it was held the last time? And no Finland, there's really no other gravel rally that is as fast as Finland.

I'd rather have something like 9 European + 3 N/S American + 3 Australoasian events + 1 African event (if possible)

My bad, Finland there now ;)

Yes, Transchaco rally could be something great to WRC. Chile wants WRC round.

[dimviii]

Yes, Transchaco rally could be something great to WRC. Chile wants WRC round.

what average speed has Transchaco?

[stefanvv]

Tour de Corse - Tarmac

I would trade that for an Italian asphalt round any day, ideally mixed San Remo. If it doesn't need to be asphalt, Sardegna is just fine.

[Andre Oliveira]

I want both. TdC and Sanremo. But Tour de Corse should be a real Tour with more stages and mileage

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/131185/lappi-not-ready-for-title-bid--latvala

[Simmi]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/131185/lappi-not-ready-for-title-bid--latvala

Not sure JML is qualified to be giving advice on title bids. "Yeah Esapekka it will take you at least 14 years..."

[racerx1979]

JML probably feeling a little threatened or maybe just being hard on Lappi in a positive way. I actually think Lappi will be close to Latvala's times in Germany. Not for every stage, but I bet he puts in some good stage times as the rally progresses.

[Simmi]

JML probably feeling a little threatened or maybe just being hard on Lappi in a positive way. I actually think Lappi will be close to Latvala's times in Germany. Not for every stage, but I bet he puts in some good stage times as the rally progresses.

Or maybe he's trying to help remove some of the pressure from Lappi's shoulders heading into next year. Kind of an interesting dynamic though given they are both Finns and team-mates. Fresh new influx of flying Finns is great for the country and the sport, but Latvala is no longer the only top Finn.

[steve.mandzij]

Not sure JML is qualified to be giving advice on title bids. "Yeah Esapekka it will take you at least 14 years..."Last year I would have agreed. This year I'm sure he's a proper title contender, for the first time since 2014. It's a shame the Yaris' reliability wasn't the best in the last two rounds; I don't have a doubt in my mind that he'd be under 10 points behind Ogier and Neuville right now had it not been for Poland and Finland.

Sisu 2018 hype train begins!

Also, I think its constructive criticism from JML. It seemed that Esapekka took it well too, maybe EP has Latvala as a sort of mentor going into next year.

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[Andre Oliveira]

Now imagine that Ott goes to Toyota as rumoured.

[GigiGalliNo1]

My question is:

16 rounds... approved by the FIA

What's stopping teams like M-Sport or Citroen who will complain there are too many rounds and they don't compete in 4 of them?

I see no problem with that!

[N.O.T]

My question is:

16 rounds... approved by the FIA

What's stopping teams like M-Sport or Citroen who will complain there are too many rounds and they don't compete in 4 of them?

I see no problem with that!

did you have an accident lately ? or you were like that from birth ?

name a driver aiming for the title that is going to accept to drive for them....

[Mk2 RS2000]

What? dont you even dare to let Finland out! Finland will never go away! a true WRC rally


That's what the said about Rally NZ a few years ago too

[denkimi]

My question is:

16 rounds... approved by the FIA

What's stopping teams like M-Sport or Citroen who will complain there are too many rounds and they don't compete in 4 of them?

I see no problem with that!

the rules:


A Manufacturer:
7.2.1 Undertakes to take part in all the rallies of the Championship with a minimum of two (2) World
Rally Cars complying with the 2017 Appendix J, Article 255A.

unless they do not register as a manufacturer of course.

[AnttiL]

http://www.rallit.fi/kalle-rovanperalla-positiivinen-ongelma-isa-harrilta-arvoituksellinen-kommentti/

Harri Rovanperä says about Kalle negotiating with M-Sport and being in the Hyundai program "it's too early to think about [next year]. We'll turn all the cards during the autumn. There could be other things going on [than M-Sport and Hyundai] and actually there is."

In this other article http://www.rallit.fi/rovanpera-ja-kaksi-muuta-suomalaislupausta-ehdolla-mm-rallitiimiin-kalle-parjaa-varmasti-hyvin/ he talks about the Hyundai program, basically confirming Kalle being there and believing Kalle will go to the final round.

[dimviii]

Vatanen about Meeke
http://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2017/08/punishing-meeke-not-help-ari-vatanen/

[mknight]

Jimmy McRae in that article:
"If Kris is on the game and he’s happy, Kris will beat Loeb."

Think he's missing the point a bit. I don't think Citroen's goal is to show he can beat Meeke, or to show that Loeb is still fastest. The main reasons for any drive (or even testing) by Loeb is:
a) PR, which they get from a few rallies no matter how Loeb finishes
b) to make sure a Citroen driver can drive for WDC and Citroen team can challenge for manu champ. by either making the car faster/better handling and/or getting points. If you turn it around you could even say that Loeb's goal is to make their n1 driver doing the full season (Meeke atm) happy.

[AnttiL]

Vatanen about Meeke
http://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2017/08/punishing-meeke-not-help-ari-vatanen/

Just had to straighten out this story


The 1981 champion pointed to an example set by his former team boss Jean Todt, whom he drove under whilst at Peugeot Talbot Sport between 1984 and 1985. He had failed to finish a rally at the mid-point of his debut season with the French team, but won his next five rallies in a row immediately after securing a one year contract extension into ’85.

In 1984, 205 T16 wasn't introduced until Tour De Corse. Vatanen had two retirements in the two first events: In Corsica he crashed out after the intercom had gone out and in Acropolis the engine failed. That's really not half a season of mistakes...

[nafpaktos]

ewrc results proves that ari exaggerates A LOT.he just wants something to say.

[René]

About Ari comment. As always, everything that is excessive becomes insignificant. Is it really useful to add Oil on the fire? Let them work quietly and solve concrete problems which temporarily affect C3. Tomorrow will be another day....

[Maui J.]

Not news or even a rumour but interested to see what others think.

With the surprise ending of VW from the WRC, and the withdrawal of Audi and now Porsche from WEC, don't you think the VAG Group should stop playing around with Skoda in the WRC2 category and move back to the top tier? Skoda has won almost everything they can with the R5, surely they must be thinking of the next step.

Seems like VAG were burnt by the whole diesel scandal and had to do something to redeem themselves. It feels like VW's WRC withdrawal and both Audi and Porsche now focused on Formula E is part of this process.

With the Polo WRC 17 sitting collecting dust somewhere, it now seems the perfect opportunity to launch the Fabia WRC 17. With all the ground work and testing been done with the Polo, it almost seems like a Skoda WRC programme is potentially so easily achievable.

With the Polo R5 being being launched next year as a customer car, is it time must to switch rolls between these marques?

With 116 years of motor sport history, and over 50 in rallying, surely it's time for Skoda's big push to win something of significance. A best result of 3rd in the Safari in 2001 doesn't really reflect their long time presence in the sport.


Anyway just a thought.

[mknight]

Imo it's extremely unlikely that VAG would led Skoda run in the top category while simultaneously selling lower category car.

Then again right now Skoda is still developing Fabia R5 for next season while VW is developing polo R5. Might be that this is the last iteration of the Fabia R5 Skoda is allowed to produce.

My impression from Skoda R5 program was that it gives lot of PR with tons of Fabias running and winning in just about all national championships for relatively low cost, so why stop it. But it's not like the decision to drop VW after they spend all the money on making the 2017 Polo was based on cost/benefit thinking.

[stefanvv]

If VAG are pulling out Porsche from WEC already, thats quite a straight change in direction course. It means they are determined to go electric no matter what. And that seem to exclude WRC from the picture from the time being..... for all VAG brands. I guess their venue will be Formula-E & possibly WRX for the moment.

[Andre Oliveira]

But VW Polo R5 will be in same league of Skoda Fabia R5. Why contest in same level two makes of same group?

[EstWRC]

But VW Polo R5 will be in same league of Skoda Fabia R5. Why contest in same level two makes of same group?

THIS! i have always wondered the same

[N.O.T]

But VW Polo R5 will be in same league of Skoda Fabia R5. Why contest in same level two makes of same group?

for the same reason there is a 208 R5 and a Ds3 R5

[TheFlyingTuga]

THIS! i have always wondered the same

The VAG group saw something in privateer racing. Being with the GT3 Audi's, the TCR Seat or the R5 Fabia. They discovered that pushing good privateer cars, can be more significant than spending millions on official efforts. Being German, they're very rational in doing things, that's why they're so good and suceed. If you can make money and be able to have your brand recognized specialy at a local level, for them it's better than spending 200 m€ in a WEC project for not that big of an audience. By having a costumer option in the National/privateer level they can do the same brand recognition and still make money by selling cars, parts and updates. It's a smart way to do business. At the same time, they're focusing on releasing new and improved product for those costumers. In TCR you have Seat, VW and Audi, in GT Racing you have Lamborghini, Porsche and Audi and in rallying they have Skoda and VW again in a near future. Don't be surprise to see a Skoda Rapid TCR or a Seat Ibiza R5... that's just they're new way!

(Sorry if I cannot make my point completly understandable, I'm just too sleepy!!)

[EstWRC]

ok thanks for explaining it to my dumb brain.

[TheFlyingTuga]

ok thanks for explaining it to my dumb brain.

Hey, I was not trying to make you look dumb! Just my opinion on the matter ;)

[JUF]

But VW Polo R5 will be in same league of Skoda Fabia R5. Why contest in same level two makes of same group?
Another reason is brand loyalty. If you have always competed in a VW you don't want to buy a Škoda (if you are a car dealer for example). Both might be VAG cars, but they are still different manufacturers.

[rallyfiend]

Another reason is brand loyalty. If you have always competed in a VW you don't want to buy a Škoda (if you are a car dealer for example). Both might be VAG cars, but they are still different manufacturers.

For sure the main reason is that they have VW Motorsport in Hannover that is just sitting around doing nothing - and with all staff with their jobs guaranteed by the Board - that they need to keep occupied. An R5 project is good for this.

[tomhlord]

Ferdinand Piëch perfected this business model for VAG in road cars. He was quoted as saying: "Many rods catch more fish".

Now we see this in their motorsport activities.

The Seat Leon TCR, VW Golf TCR and Audi RS 3 LMS TCR are all exactly the same car underneath, all developed and built by the same people at Seat Sport.

It doesn't make much sense on the face of it, but it seems brand loyalty even exists within motorsport customers too and it does at least provide another body style on the grid/on the stages for a bit of visual variety.

[Mirek]

Few weeks a go I met VW Motorsport customer service truck. There were all VAG brand logos on the truck except two. The two missing were Porsche and Škoda. Maybe it means nothing maybe it does. Add to that that since 1st November 2015 Škoda CEO is one of the top Porsche managers Bernhard Meier instead of VW man Winfried Vahland. Porsche position in VAG is very specific (their years long fight with Piech's people over VAG leadership or their frequent rifts with Audi are well known). If Škoda inclines more to Porsche which is currently the strongest player in VAG it may also mean that Škoda could stay somewhat aside of the named VW-Audi-Seat combo.

[Simmi]

Small story in MN today about the FIA clamping down on drivers filming themselves with their phones while in the drivers seat of their rally/reccy cars. Mahonen not happy. I think a few forumers have mentioned this before. Chief offenders: Neuville and Mikkelsen.

I think Paddon is okay with a mounted GoPro - but this was a great little video from yesterday in Germany - https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/897522982834319360

[cali]

http://m.postimees.ee/section/3337/4212207

Basically at first the journo writes that TMR is moving his headquarters from Puuppola to Estonia. They are even using quote from Tommi Mäkinen. Then at the end of the article they are mentioning that TMR is opening a new base located in Estonia for logistical and tax reasons. Headquarters still stays at Puuppola. Quite strange and confusing article I must say.

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[EstWRC]

look in the toyota thread, there is the original article...they are just expanding their base here not moving its headquarters here.

[Zeakiwi]

Is there any word on whether Ingrassia has a official medical clearance?

[AnttiL]

http://m.postimees.ee/section/3337/4212207

Basically at first the journo writes that TMR is moving his headquarters from Puuppola to Estonia. They are even using quote from Tommi Mäkinen. Then at the end of the article they are mentioning that TMR is opening a new base located in Estonia for logistical and tax reasons. Headquarters still stays at Puuppola. Quite strange and confusing article I must say.

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Probably a translation from the Ilta-Sanomat (yellow press) article with a clickbait title saying they move headquarters and then quote form Mäkinen that they keep the headquarters in Puuppola. It's not mentioned in the article, but keeping the headquarters secures them unlimited testing in the Rally Finland area.

Also keep in mind that Tommi Mäkinen Racing is not Toyota Gazoo Racing.

[A FONDO]

Another reason is brand loyalty. If you have always competed in a VW you don't want to buy a Škoda (if you are a car dealer for example). Both might be VAG cars, but they are still different manufacturers.

In some countries there are separate companies who are dealers of different brands of the same factory. That's why PSA builds the same cargo vans for example. If you have been partnering with Peugeot importer for many years and PSA enters a new model only under Citroen branding, you have to go negotiate from scratch with local Citroen importer and it can fail and then you will go to Ford or Fiat and ultimately PSA factory loses you. So you can now understand that in private motorsport at regional level some people arrange sponsorship from local brand dealer and more options = better for VAG, I mean they already have the car developed and they can only change the emblem and front/rear lights and this gives them opportunity for new customers.

[RS]

Few weeks a go I met VW Motorsport customer service truck. There were all VAG brand logos on the truck except two. The two missing were Porsche and Škoda. Maybe it means nothing maybe it does. Add to that that since 1st November 2015 Škoda CEO is one of the top Porsche managers Bernhard Meier instead of VW man Winfried Vahland. Porsche position in VAG is very specific (their years long fight with Piech's people over VAG leadership or their frequent rifts with Audi are well known). If Škoda inclines more to Porsche which is currently the strongest player in VAG it may also mean that Škoda could stay somewhat aside of the named VW-Audi-Seat combo.

What would that mean in practical terms?

Doesn't this go somewhat against the assumption that the Polo and Fabia R5 will share a lot of parts?

[Mirek]

I have no idea if it means anything. We have to wait and see how it is in the future. The thing is that VW is no longer the main driving body in VAG and IMO it's not good to automatically count with something similar like VW-Audi-Seat partnership on circuits.

[Rally Power]

I have no idea if it means anything. We have to wait and see how it is in the future. The thing is that VW is no longer the main driving body in VAG and IMO it's not good to automatically count with something similar like VW-Audi-Seat partnership on circuits.

Totally agree on Porsche having a special status inside VW group, but that’s hardly the case for Skoda. It's pretty reasonable to believe that Skoda is now sharing R5 knowledge just like Seat did with TCR and it wouldn’t even be a total surprise to see an Ibiza R5 coming out after the Polo.



If VAG are pulling out Porsche from WEC already, thats quite a straight change in direction course. It means they are determined to go electric no matter what.

Hopefully, the current e-mobility bubble is going to burst (an all electrical future is not viable) and then VW, Audi and Porsche will be able to return to the motorsport lead; meanwhile, they’re using FE as a marketing tool and keeping contact with major series through 2nd level categories (R5, GT3, GTE, etc).

Btw, here’s a sharp view on FE: http://www.automobilemag.com/news/real-race-fans-dont-fear-formula-e-yet/

[Mirek]

Totally agree on Porsche having a special status inside VW group, but that’s hardly the case for Skoda. It's pretty reasonable to believe that Skoda is now sharing R5 knowledge just like Seat did with TCR and it wouldn’t even be a total surprise to see an Ibiza R5 coming out after the Polo.

You did not get the point. Currently the whole VAG is driven by Porsche people. The process was accelerated by the dieselgate. Porsche now holds 52% of VAG and controls the most important decisive places in the management - Pötsch, chairman of the supervisory board, is Porsche man and Müller, CEO, is also Porsche man. Both replaced the old Piech's people in their role. As a result VAG is no longer driven by VW.

Aside of that Porsche thanks to the dieselgate took CEO post in Škoda from VW, i.e. simple logic tells me that Škoda probably lost a bit of its dependancy on VW. I don't say there is no sharing of technologies between Škoda and VW Motorspor departments. For sure there is but it's not on the level of rebranding or repacking a totally same car or even building it in the same facility by the same people (like PSA cars). Anyway only time will tell how it evolves.

[dupanton]

Is there any word on whether Ingrassia has a official medical clearance?

He didn't need medical clearance. He couldn't compete for 2 weeks but was than allowed to compete again without any test.

[Rally Power]

You did not get the point. Currently the whole VAG is driven by Porsche people. The process was accelerated by the dieselgate. Porsche now holds 52% of VAG and controls the most important decisive places in the management - Pötsch, chairman of the supervisory board, is Porsche man and Müller, CEO, is also Porsche man. Both replaced the old Piech's people in their role. As a result VAG is no longer driven by VW.

You’re making some confusion. Dieselgate was a new chapter in the private war between Porsche and Piech families to control VW Group (that exists since the 60’s, with VW privatization), but it didn’t change the overall VW centered business. No matter who is chosen to lead, the group flag is always VW.

Btw, Muller was a VW group guy all his life; previous to the Porsche job, he had been Audi and VW top exec; Potsch is a former VW CEO.

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/08/17/wm-kalender-2018-abschied-von-polen-rueckt-naeher/

Seems like Poland is out & Turkey is in...however it looks like the calendar might just stay 13 events, which IMHO is better if you want to keep all the manufacturers involved, besides the fact Croatia would have been another european event...

[seb_sh]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/08/17/wm-kalender-2018-abschied-von-polen-rueckt-naeher/

Seems like Poland is out & Turkey is in...however it looks like the calendar might just stay 13 events, which IMHO is better if you want to keep all the manufacturers involved, besides the fact Croatia would have been another european event...

Indeed, I'd rather have fewer rallies with more top seats than more rallies with 4-5 top cars. Also, leaving politics aside, Turkey when it was in the WRC previously was different from the other rallies so hopefully it has its own style this time as well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gronholm: Loeb WRC return would be a surprise.

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/gronholm-loeb-wrc-return-would-be-a-surprise/

[dimviii]

any news?

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-365-0-19216900-1503011528.png
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-365-0-17072700-1503011541.png

[EstWRC]

what team principals think of next years calendar? http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11716-exclusive-team-reps-give-their-thoughts-on-2018-wrc-calendar

[Duvel]

We just got back from a great rally Deutchland, was really fun to follow. Since i have the most rally "expierence" the guys hit me asked a lot of questions. Most of them i could answer, but some i didn't exactly know, can one of you help?

What would a WRC17 car cost?
How many tires are allowed on one rally weekend
Is it allowed for teams to make extra cuts in there tyres (for damp conditions slicks whit extra cuts)?
How much does one litre of WRC fuel cost?
Why were there 3 minute intervals on romerstrasse (stage 12)?

Thanks!

[AnttiL]

SS12 was TV stage, 3 minute gaps are for showing longer streaks of live footage of each car. On power stage the intervals may be even longer, at least for top 3 cars.

I think the tyre amount is 28-32 depending on the rally.

[Duvel]

SS12 was TV stage, 3 minute gaps are for showing longer streaks of live footage of each car. On power stage the intervals may be even longer, at least for top 3 cars.

I think the tyre amount is 28-32 depending on the rally.

So my gues about the intervals was correct, and i said 28 tyres, so far i didnt lie to much to the guys than...

[steve.mandzij]

SS12 was TV stage, 3 minute gaps are for showing longer streaks of live footage of each car. On power stage the intervals may be even longer, at least for top 3 cars.

I think the tyre amount is 28-32 depending on the rally.The gaps in Finland were really shit. Maybe it was because Al Qassimi started the PS but I only saw about 20 seconds of Latvala and almost the Sheik's entire run.

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[Eli]

A '17 spec WRC car would cost you back (if I remember correctly) €750,000.

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[Duvel]

A '17 spec WRC car would cost you back (if I remember correctly) €750,000.

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Ok so i said 600000euro, at least thats wat i thougt a C4WRC costed new back in the days.

Fuel i yhink i once read in a Deutschland rally magazin was about 3.2euro/litre?

And one more question, how much fuel do WRC cars use for 100km's

[Lead]

I hope after Germany teams will consider their lineups and find a place for Mikkelsen in 2018. Despite only 3rd outing in 17' WRC car and first on tarmac, he showed he is still up there with big boys.
I feel Citroen will give him a chance to drive in Australia (considering his last years result).

[RS]

I hope after Germany teams will consider their lineups and find a place for Mikkelsen in 2018. Despite only 3rd outing in 17' WRC car and first on tarmac, he showed he is still up there with big boys.
I feel Citroen will give him a chance to drive in Australia (considering his last years result).

Wouldn't be surprised to see Hyundai draft him in as a last ditch attempt at the championship.

[mknight]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Hyundai draft him in as a last ditch attempt at the championship.

Nominate him instead of Paddon for Spain and instead of Sordo for GB and Australia?
(Paddon/Sordo would still drive but as 4th car)

Interesting idea, I somehow doubt it though.

EDIT:
Mostly due to the 2018 situation. Mikkelsen probably wouldn't want to drive for them if it reduces his chances for full drive at Citroen in 2018+ something Hyundai probably don't offer. Citroen might even set conditions that they won't allow him to drive Hyundai if he wants to drive for them next year. Then again Mikkelsen might not want to sign Citroen without more rallies in the car this year (I doubt that seeing how low-budget M-Sport looks more and more likely).

[tommeke_B]

Ok so i said 600000euro, at least thats wat i thougt a C4WRC costed new back in the days.

Fuel i yhink i once read in a Deutschland rally magazin was about 3.2euro/litre?

And one more question, how much fuel do WRC cars use for 100km's

You can find the fuel order form in the competitors section before each event. For Germany: https://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2017/static/179/FUEL-ORDER-FORM-WRC-2017.pdf

So 5 euro/l (excl VAT). From the previous generation of WRC cars I know they used around 65l/100km on stage-mode, the new generation shall use a bit more I guess.

[Mirek]

Some old 2.0 used even over 1 litre per kilometer but that's very long time a go.

[Luijbregts]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mikkelsen will be starting in Spain and basically the rest of the season. I read somewhere in an interview today with Matton that the line-up in Spain will probably be the drivers that are in for 2018.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Two-time WRC winner Ott Tanak says his Germany victory has put him firmly in this year's title fight !

https://t.co/cz8d8v8qdv https://t.co/3zOoNI7LW4

[itix]

Two-time WRC winner Ott Tanak says his Germany victory has put him firmly in this year's title fight !

https://t.co/cz8d8v8qdv https://t.co/3zOoNI7LW4Wouldn't that basically require Ogier to do at least one 0 points event and one quite bad event and Ott to win both those for him to have even a chance? There's a 33 point gap as it stands.

Or possibly 25+5 for PS and a 0+0 for Ogier (and Neuville).

Seems unlikely, but mathematically it is possible.

One has to feel sorry for Latvala too. He has had the best season ever and the car has been the thing that let him down.

[Jinu13]

Mostly due to the 2018 situation. Mikkelsen probably wouldn't want to drive for them if it reduces his chances for full drive at Citroen in 2018+ something Hyundai probably don't offer. Citroen might even set conditions that they won't allow him to drive Hyundai if he wants to drive for them next year. Then again Mikkelsen might not want to sign Citroen without more rallies in the car this year (I doubt that seeing how low-budget M-Sport looks more and more likely).

M-Sport are so low budget the mechanics etc were slumming it with me on Flybe on the way back to Manchester. No business class for them whilst they're paying Ogier's salary.

[AnttiL]

Wouldn't that basically require Ogier to do at least one 0 points event and one quite bad event and Ott to win both those for him to have even a chance? There's a 33 point gap as it stands.

Or possibly 25+5 for PS and a 0+0 for Ogier (and Neuville).

Seems unlikely, but mathematically it is possible.

Yeah, if we assume Ogier has a 0 result in Spain, Tänak wins and Neuville is second, it's a whole new situation, with two rallies to go. It would make Neuville 178, Ogier 177 and Tänak 169, plus whatever they would scrape out of the power stage. But of course it's not very likely to happen.


One has to feel sorry for Latvala too. He has had the best season ever and the car has been the thing that let him down.
Yeah, he could have made it to the podium in all three latest rallies (except maybe the puncture in Germany would have ruined it) and would be up there in the title fight as well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier and Neuville have both had a nil score recently so it can happen.

Tanak's chances are slim but its not impossible.

[AnttiL]

Ogier and Neuville have both had a nil score recently so it can happen.

Yeah, actually Tänak got one in Poland, then Ogier in Finland, then Neuville in Germany.

[focus206]

Ogier and Neuville have both had a nil score recently so it can happen.

Tanak's chances are slim but its not impossible.

If Ogier has a DNF, then Neuville and Tanak have a chance, as long as they have 3 great rallies. Even if Ogier does not retire in any rally, Neuville could count on the fact that he has to open the road in all 3 of them and try to take advantage to chip away points, 17 points are a lot though.

[AnttiL]

If Ogier has a DNF, then Neuville and Tanak have a chance, as long as they have 3 great rallies. Even if Ogier does not retire in any rally, Neuville could count on the fact that he has to open the road in all 3 of them and try to take advantage to chip away points, 17 points are a lot though.

Plus no one else than Ogier has even led Rally GB in the last four years...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I wonder if Tanak's words are for Mr Wilson's benefit... ;)

[rhm]

M-Sport are so low budget the mechanics etc were slumming it with me on Flybe on the way back to Manchester. No business class for them whilst they're paying Ogier's salary.

Didn't think the mechanics ever flew business class. I think Peugeot used to fly mechanics business back in the 206 days but then they also had three Michelin-star chefs doing the catering.

[tommeke_B]

M-Sport are so low budget the mechanics etc were slumming it with me on Flybe on the way back to Manchester. No business class for them whilst they're paying Ogier's salary.

"So low budget"? Come on, I think it's more about spending the available budget in a smarter way. Business class is overrated anyway, especially for European flights that take only a couple of hours. You wait on the same place for the plane, if a bus takes you to the plane, you're on the same bus. All you have is some extra leg space, and free food/drink once on the plane. I doubt it's worth another 400-500 euros/person/rally, especially when you have to multiply it by 100. Same goes for the hotel rooms, where VW had one person/room while in other teams members had to share a room.

[mknight]

Wasn't it just meant as irony?
Which sane person flies Germany-GB in business class?

[Simmi]

Pretty standard if you fly out to a rally from the UK there will be an armada of M-Sport people there. Even Malcolm rolls in the cheap seats. Don't think anything has changed there since the works Ford days. I doubt any drivers are flying business class. Only time you could argue it's an advantage is on long-hauls.

[jparker]

While on subject, in Porugal I saw expensive car with TGR stikers in front of Crowne Plaza Porto, while the mecanics were in my hotel - Ipanema Park.

[Simmi]

While on subject, in Porugal I saw expensive car with TGR stikers in front of Crowne Plaza Porto, while the mecanics were in my hotel - Ipanema Park.

They seem to host a lot of Japanese VIPs on rallies so it was probably something to do with that.

[racerx1979]

Bus loads of Japanese VIP's in Germany too.

[mknight]

Clark kitchen table:
https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/videos/806365079526157/

Nothing really new, mostly same points as people have here.
Specifically:
- sees Tanak as Ogier's wingman for the title chase
- no mention of Ogier's future or Ford at all, says he will stay at M-Sport in comments
- no mention of Tanak's future directly but seems to assume he will start at M-Sport
- speculating Hanninen might stay at Toyota
- suggesting Paddon is under pressure for results
- speculates Meeke might be on the way out

--------------------------------
What I found interesting is how he says that Meeke is unfairly threated by Citroen and that they should have supported him more etc. and uses Nandan with Neuville and Paddon as example.... and then basically 1 min later goes on how Paddon should not expect support forever if he keeps underperforming.

As a reminder this is like 3rd time Meeke has a crashing period (2014 and 2015 the years before) during his stay at Citroen (see for example here: http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august/meeke-three-chances/page/2692--12-12-.html , - note that Meeke crashed in germany after that article was published, but ended 3rd in Australia), both times before he kept driving all the time and with the team.

[the sniper]

I imagine Rally GB will be popular with Toyota officials, the service park in Deeside is on the land of the Toyota engine plant there.

[Simmi]

Clark kitchen table:
https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/videos/806365079526157/

Nothing really new, mostly same points as people have here.
Specifically:
- sees Tanak as Ogier's wingman for the title chase
- no mention of Ogier's future or Ford at all, says he will stay at M-Sport in comments
- no mention of Tanak's future directly but seems to assume he will start at M-Sport
- speculating Hanninen might stay at Toyota
- suggesting Paddon is under pressure for results
- speculates Meeke might be on the way out

Translation = he doesn't know anything.

I'm not knocking Col because I do love speculation and watching vids like this. But let's take it for what it is.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I already posted this in the CCKT thread...

[mknight]

Translation = he doesn't know anything.

I'm not knocking Col because I do love speculation and watching vids like this. But let's take it for what it is.

True, but even if he knew I don't think he would tell outright.

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131366/poland-axed-for-2018-turkey-returns

As discussed today by this forum.