[WRC] News & Rumours (part V) 2017

[pantealex]

Can we translate this as hint that VW are actually returning next year?
If what Capito is saying is true (and I think it is), they should be competitive next year as well.

Capito is not working for VW anymore, how could he give clues for their 2018 plans ?

So, no his statement is not hint for 2018 comeback.

[Eli]

Capito is not working for VW anymore, how could he give clues for their 2018 plans ?

So, no his statement is not hint for 2018 comeback.

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/06/01/capito-kehrt-zu-volkswagen-zurueck/

Wrong, according to this he is back in VW (but in a different department).

[Watson]

Can we translate this as hint that VW are actually returning next year?
If what Capito is saying is true (and I think it is), they should be competitive next year as well.

I can find no hint of them returning next year in this article whatsoever.

[jparker]

I can find no hint of them returning next year in this article whatsoever.

Well, maybe not hint, but attempt to point the fact that thay have the car ready without the need for any new investment. This may help some big bosses change their minds about WRC.

[Rally Power]

But if a team like Stobart/OMV - or Onebet Jipocar - would register as a manufacturer team (paid the entry fee)? Will the 2017 Polos be available for rallying next year or have all the cars already been converted to rallycross?

Currently a team has to be officially designated by the manufacturer in order to get manufacturer team status

Only a car manufacturer can promote the homologation of a WRC car; they supply the base model and it’s their name that’s behind the bureaucracy, even if the rest (project, development and running) can be done by an outside team, officially designated by them. Most manus uses in-house structures but Ford is still the exception; MSport runs a WRC team on their behalf since ’97, even if after ’12 Ford’s name was kept out of the manu team label.

Manus are also obligated to run (or making run on their behalf) a new homologated WRC car during one complete season in a two cars team formation, otherwise homologation gets expired. That’s why the ’17 Polo wasn’t homologated.

[Gregor-y]

I'm just trying to think it's not that black and white, there's factory teams, non-factory professional teams (M-Sport, Stobart, OMV etc) who run for manufacturer points and then there's privateers.
I would normally think of privateers as any non-factory team, regardless of driver. Of course using that logic M Sport is a strange case as was Citroen's season with Kronos.

[denkimi]

I would normally think of privateers as any non-factory team, regardless of driver. Of course using that logic M Sport is a strange case as was Citroen's season with Kronos.
to me it's simple: if a driver is asked to drive a manufacturers car, and is being payed for it, he is a factory driver. if he has to pay to drive, he's a privateer.

[KiwiWRCfan]

FIA considering further changes to long haul testing rules for 2018 http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11500-changes-to-the-2017-wrc-rules-being-considered

[KiwiWRCfan]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/06/01/capito-kehrt-zu-volkswagen-zurueck/

Wrong, according to this he is back in VW (but in a different department).

Here is VW media release in English on Capito's new role https://www.volkswagen-media-services.com/en/detailpage/-/detail/Jost-Capito-to-manage-Volkswagen-R-GmbH-and-Volkswagen-Zubehr-GmbH-in-the-future/view/5082075/7a5bbec13158edd433c6630f5ac445da?p_p_auth=NaB976Kj

[AnttiL]

Currently a team has to be officially designated by the manufacturer in order to get manufacturer team status

Only a car manufacturer can promote the homologation of a WRC car; they supply the base model and it’s their name that’s behind the bureaucracy, even if the rest (project, development and running) can be done by an outside team, officially designated by them. Most manus uses in-house structures but Ford is still the exception; MSport runs a WRC team on their behalf since ’97, even if after ’12 Ford’s name was kept out of the manu team label.

Manus are also obligated to run (or making run on their behalf) a new homologated WRC car during one complete season in a two cars team formation, otherwise homologation gets expired. That’s why the ’17 Polo wasn’t homologated.

Thanks for this information, I wasn't aware of it. So could we have, for instance, a second Ford Team run by Stobart anymore?

[pantealex]

Capito is not working for VW anymore, how could he give clues for their 2018 plans ?

So, no his statement is not hint for 2018 comeback.

and Capito is back in VW.
Head of "R" division and WRC is POLO R, so he may have something to do with it.

[Rallyper]

That´s interesting, really. Maybe VW considering second thoughts ...

[Mirek]

R division is commercial one. It has little to do with motorsport.

[Sulland]

But I read the article as he was back, but in the ommercial side. And not motorsport?
Did I misunderstand? My german is rusry!!

[Oppositelock]

Since yesterday Capito heads Volkswagens subsidiaries "R GmbH" and "Zubehör GmbH". The first being responsible for the sporty versions of the VW roadcars (like M in BMW or AMG in Mercedes), the latter for all aftermarket business.

Doesn't sound too exciting for the moment. But maybe he will expand R GmbH in the future (I'm thinking about cars like a V8 Amarok similar to the Raptor Capito brought to Ford). There are even rumours that Motorsport will be part of R GmbH in the future.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

R division is commercial one. It has little to do with motorsport.

Strange position to for him if it is just commercial. His whole background is motorsport:

Capito is an engineering graduate and first worked for the Volkswagen Group in the Porsche racing department from 1989. After managing the Sauber Formula 1 racing team from 1996, Capito joined Ford in 2001. With Ford, he was responsible for motorsport activities and performance vehicles. In 2012 Capito was appointed Director of Motorsport of the Volkswagen brand and led the Volkswagen team to first place in the FIA World Rally Championship in 2013, 2014 and 2015, before becoming CEO of McLaren Racing in 2016.

[Luijbregts]

Strange position? He has to make a living!

[Gregor-y]

Since yesterday Capito heads Volkswagens subsidiaries "R GmbH" and "Zubehör GmbH". The first being responsible for the sporty versions of the VW roadcars (like M in BMW or AMG in Mercedes), the latter for all aftermarket business.

Doesn't sound too exciting for the moment. But maybe he will expand R GmbH in the future (I'm thinking about cars like a V8 Amarok similar to the Raptor Capito brought to Ford). There are even rumours that Motorsport will be part of R GmbH in the future.

Capito's new position sounds like a continuation from his role at Ford. The Mk2 Focus RS was mentioned in articles at the time as doing a good job staying within budget compared to the original Focus RS, and Capito was in charge of getting the Mk2 together.

[Watson]

Capito's new position sounds like a continuation from his role at Ford. The Mk2 Focus RS was mentioned in articles at the time as doing a good job staying within budget compared to the original Focus RS, and Capito was in charge of getting the Mk2 together.

I'm sorry if I go completely off topic here but when the Mk2 Focus RS was released I was rather upset they strapped a 305 PS engine to a FWD-drivetrain - for the sake of cost. While the whole revo-knuckle affair was working rather okay you couldn't get too mad but still I guess people happily would have paid the extra dough on AWD.

I don't blame Capito on it but I hate this whole save-money-no-matter-at-what-cost-mentality.

Look how much love the Mk3 RS receives. It's all in those four powered wheels :D

[/rant]

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm sorry if I go completely off topic here but when the Mk2 Focus RS was released I was rather upset they strapped a 305 PS engine to a FWD-drivetrain - for the sake of cost. While the whole revo-knuckle affair was working rather okay you couldn't get too mad but still I guess people happily would have paid the extra dough on AWD.

I don't blame Capito on it but I hate this whole save-money-no-matter-at-what-cost-mentality.

Look how much love the Mk3 RS receives. It's all in those four powered wheels :D

[/rant]

I know what you're saying, but the Mk2 RS also had unique body panels as well as the suspension etc. Although made on the standard production-line this still cost money and a saving had to be made elsewhere... hence the FWD. Plus they didnt have a suitable platform for 4WD either.

Now people may love the Mk3 RS for its 4WD, but the saving has this time been made via its looks, ie. it's just a basic 5-door Focus with no wide-arches or vents.

This was disappointment to me as an RS should look like an RS.

[sorry for the OT]

[Watson]

I know what you're saying, but the Mk2 RS also had unique body panels as well as the suspension etc. Although made on the standard production-line this still cost money and a saving had to be made elsewhere... hence the FWD. Plus they didnt have a suitable platform for 4WD either.

Now people may love the Mk3 RS for its 4WD, but the saving has this time been made via its looks, ie. it's just a basic 5-door Focus with no wide-arches or vents.

This was disappointment to me as an RS should look like an RS.

[sorry for the OT]

[hopefully the last OT]

Yeah you're making sense.

Though I can really live with the rather dull interior as long as it handles like an RS should and the benchmark for that is the Escort Cosworth. RS cars should be rally oriented and that absolutely has to include AWD, for me anyway.

I think the reason the Mk3 looks a bit tame on the outside is that it is sold worldwide hence it has to please a wider spectrum of tastes whereas the Mk2 was only sold in Europe.

I'll shut up about it now, promise.

[GigiGalliNo1]

There is no more Polo R, it's the Polo GTI backed by VW

[Lundefaret]

I'm sorry if I go completely off topic here but when the Mk2 Focus RS was released I was rather upset they strapped a 305 PS engine to a FWD-drivetrain - for the sake of cost. While the whole revo-knuckle affair was working rather okay you couldn't get too mad but still I guess people happily would have paid the extra dough on AWD.

I don't blame Capito on it but I hate this whole save-money-no-matter-at-what-cost-mentality.

Look how much love the Mk3 RS receives. It's all in those four powered wheels :D

[/rant]

Capito also did the Focus ST (it was supposed to be a dolphin, and the RS a shark), and I was lucky enough to be on the launches of both.
ST launch was at Paul Ricard, which is surrounded by some great driving roads.
It was off course also track driving, Henning Solberg was present in the Norwegian day.
The launch was one of the best I ever attended as it also featured (for test driving), an RS200 (road version), 3dr Sierra Cosworth, Puma (wide fender one that I have forgotten the name of, but a very exiting car to drive), an MK1 from Rally Mexico, but with a high power BDA engine, and I think more. Toni Gardermaister did carry on rides in a Fiesta ST track car (and was very close to rolling with me onboard).
And the ST it self, with that nice five cylinder howl, was very, very good.

RS launch was in Nice, with driving in the mountains. Me and a colleague did some inspired driving for the the camera. A car stopped. And out came a police officer. Since I have already spent time in jail for speeding, I saw a future locked up in France. He wanted us to follow him. He stopped in the closest small town, outside a small garage where there was a Renault rally car (FWD with turbo, but bigger then a 5). Turned out he was a rally driver!

Best part comes now: he took along his father in the slicks shod rally car to a twisty and steep mountain road. He wanted a race!
Father went in the RS, and we took turns driving the RS and passenger the Red Renault. RS was a fantastic car on these roads, and actually faster then the rally car.

On the way back to Nice we were running late for the plane, so I had to step on it on the freeway. Now I got stopped by a police car and a police van. Heart was thumping, because the speeds we had been doing was all other than sober.
Turned out the father if one of the 10 or so Police men that got out of the van had a MK1 Focus RS, and was wondering about buying an MK2. They looked at the all new car, and even told us to go for it and launch the car hard when we were let away.

Good times 😊

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Capito also did the Focus ST (it was supposed to be a dolphin, and the RS a shark), and I was lucky enough to be on the launches of both.
ST launch was at Paul Ricard, which is surrounded by some great driving roads.
It was off course also track driving, Henning Solberg was present in the Norwegian day.
The launch was one of the best I ever attended as it also featured (for test driving), an RS200 (road version), 3dr Sierra Cosworth, Puma (wide fender one that I have forgotten the name of, but a very exiting car to drive), an MK1 from Rally Mexico, but with a high power BDA engine, and I think more. Toni Gardermaister did carry on rides in a Fiesta ST track car (and was very close to rolling with me onboard).
And the ST it self, with that nice five cylinder howl, was very, very good.

RS launch was in Nice, with driving in the mountains. Me and a colleague did some inspired driving for the the camera. A car stopped. And out came a police officer. Since I have already spent time in jail for speeding, I saw a future locked up in France. He wanted us to follow him. He stopped in the closest small town, outside a small garage where there was a Renault rally car (FWD with turbo, but bigger then a 5). Turned out he was a rally driver!

Best part comes now: he took along his father in the slicks shod rally car to a twisty and steep mountain road. He wanted a race!
Father went in the RS, and we took turns driving the RS and passenger the Red Renault. RS was a fantastic car on these roads, and actually faster then the rally car.

On the way back to Nice we were running late for the plane, so I had to step on it on the freeway. Now I got stopped by a police car and a police van. Heart was thumping, because the speeds we had been doing was all other than sober.
Turned out the father if one of the 10 or so Police men that got out of the van had a MK1 Focus RS, and was wondering about buying an MK2. They looked at the all new car, and even told us to go for it and launch the car hard when we were let away.

Good times

You mean R11 Turbo..? Since Megane & Clio are NA..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Capito also did the Focus ST (it was supposed to be a dolphin, and the RS a shark), and I was lucky enough to be on the launches of both.
ST launch was at Paul Ricard, which is surrounded by some great driving roads.
It was off course also track driving, Henning Solberg was present in the Norwegian day.
The launch was one of the best I ever attended as it also featured (for test driving), an RS200 (road version), 3dr Sierra Cosworth, Puma (wide fender one that I have forgotten the name of, but a very exiting car to drive), an MK1 from Rally Mexico, but with a high power BDA engine, and I think more. Toni Gardermaister did carry on rides in a Fiesta ST track car (and was very close to rolling with me onboard).
And the ST it self, with that nice five cylinder howl, was very, very good.

RS launch was in Nice, with driving in the mountains. Me and a colleague did some inspired driving for the the camera. A car stopped. And out came a police officer. Since I have already spent time in jail for speeding, I saw a future locked up in France. He wanted us to follow him. He stopped in the closest small town, outside a small garage where there was a Renault rally car (FWD with turbo, but bigger then a 5). Turned out he was a rally driver!

Best part comes now: he took along his father in the slicks shod rally car to a twisty and steep mountain road. He wanted a race!
Father went in the RS, and we took turns driving the RS and passenger the Red Renault. RS was a fantastic car on these roads, and actually faster then the rally car.

On the way back to Nice we were running late for the plane, so I had to step on it on the freeway. Now I got stopped by a police car and a police van. Heart was thumping, because the speeds we had been doing was all other than sober.
Turned out the father if one of the 10 or so Police men that got out of the van had a MK1 Focus RS, and was wondering about buying an MK2. They looked at the all new car, and even told us to go for it and launch the car hard when we were let away.

Good times

You mean 11 Turbo..? Since Megane & Clio are NA..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[AdvEvo]

I have owned a focus rs mk3. I sold it after a few weeks.

Why? Because if you leftfoot brake the awd system disconnects the rear drive.

You are better off with an subaru sti. Which is a pure mechanical 4wd system. No electronic so called torque vectoring system. That s luxery word for braking the spinning wheels.

Vw is even worse with there haldex system. Understeer E lsd. Braking wheels electronic. Throttle and brake you can not use together. I have had an audi rs3 what a piece of junk!

There are almost no pure 4wd street cars anymore.

The mitsubishi evo RS was the best you could buy for the road and came close to a real rallycar

[Lundefaret]

You mean R11 Turbo..? Since Megane & Clio are NA..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

Yes, it was a red R11 turbo, thanks 😊
And if any French forum reader knows a policeman tarmac rallying a red R11 turbo, and lives in a small town in the mountains north if Nice (might have been on the Route Napoleon, I don't remember), then it's him, because it can't be more than one 😊

[Walach]

I have owned a focus rs mk3. I sold it after a few weeks.

Why? Because if you leftfoot brake the awd system disconnects the rear drive.

You are better off with an subaru sti. Which is a pure mechanical 4wd system. No electronic so called torque vectoring system. That s luxery word for braking the spinning wheels.

Vw is even worse with there haldex system. Understeer E lsd. Braking wheels electronic. Throttle and brake you can not use together. I have had an audi rs3 what a piece of junk!

There are almost no pure 4wd street cars anymore.

The mitsubishi evo RS was the best you could buy for the road and came close to a real rallycar

Looking for pure 4wd street car, I have recently bought Pulsar GTiR. Hope it'll do the trick.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You mean 11 Turbo..? ..



Definitely a R11 Turbo - I had one back in the day, and in red... cracking car ! :cool:

Maybe the rally car was this one...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8650/16064326232_b98e14d7a8_b.jpg

[Watson]

Maybe we should start a thread called 'Road Cars Us Rally Nerds Like' or something. ;)

[Jarek Z]

Jean Ragnotti made some great results driving Renault 11 Turbo. He was second overall in Rallye de Portugal 1987:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/5417-rallye-de-portugal-vinho-do-porto-1987/

and third in Rallye Sanremo:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/8909-rallye-sanremo-1987/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZCTroVUEAAb-5n.jpg

[Lundefaret]

Definitely a R11 Turbo - I had one back in the day, and in red... cracking car ! :cool:

Maybe the rally car was this one...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8650/16064326232_b98e14d7a8_b.jpg

It was exactly like that, also with the quattro-like doubble square headlights. Cant say 100% that it was that exact car, but very, very similar!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

My best memory of the R11T rally car was on a stage of the Tour de Corse 1987, where Ragnotti lost just 1 sec/km to the time of a 205 T16 Evo2 from 1986 !

Here was his car's secret:
"To be competitive we have to make the car as light as possible with as high a cornering speed as we can get."
"A component part of cornering is braking: the more efficient and stable a car's retardation, the quicker will be its elapsed time through a corner. And it's a complete understatement to say that there are many corners in Corsica. The multitude of twists, turns and gradients on the roads of this island make a car's braking performance critical to its Tour de Corse competitiveness."

That this 1.4T FWD car was capable of mixing it on tarmac with the 4WD Delta HF and RWD Sierra Cosworth & BMW M3 I think was incredible.

[AnttiL]

Carlos Sainz to test a C3 WRC to help overcome suspension problems? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129901 Sainz says he'd be interested, Matton says it's possible but not planned ATM

[Rally Power]

Carlos Sainz to test a C3 WRC to help overcome suspension problems? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129901

Isn't this talk about the alleged C3 suspensions problems becoming a bit ridiculous? How can a car that won at Mexico, lead at Corsica and usually ends events at the top 5 with a less experienced driver have a major issue? Honestly, the more bristish journos talk about this the more it seems they're trying to elude Meeke's erratic driving.

[Lundefaret]

My best memory of the R11T rally car was on a stage of the Tour de Corse 1987, where Ragnotti lost just 1 sec/km to the time of a 205 T16 Evo2 from 1986 !

Here was his car's secret:
"To be competitive we have to make the car as light as possible with as high a cornering speed as we can get."
"A component part of cornering is braking: the more efficient and stable a car's retardation, the quicker will be its elapsed time through a corner. And it's a complete understatement to say that there are many corners in Corsica. The multitude of twists, turns and gradients on the roads of this island make a car's braking performance critical to its Tour de Corse competitiveness."

That this 1.4T FWD car was capable of mixing it on tarmac with the 4WD Delta HF and RWD Sierra Cosworth & BMW M3 I think was incredible.

Great story.

Jean Ragnotti was maybe the best ever WRC driver that was ever champion. His loyalty to Renault was/is admirable, but have cost him a lot of WRC victories.
What he could and can do with a rally car, no matter if its an underpowered FWD or an over powered RWD, or any combo in between - is just remarkable.

[Lundefaret]

Isn't this talk about the alleged C3 suspensions problems becoming a bit ridiculous? How can a car that won at Mexico, lead at Corsica and usually ends events at the top 5 with a less experienced driver have a major issue? Honestly, the more bristish journos talk about this the more it seems they're trying to elude Meeke's erratic driving.

Looking at one of the test videos from Andreas, he passes over a not big, but sharp bump. It looks like the car is bottoming out. Dont know if Andreas tested an upgraded car or not.

That Sainz can help with suspension problems is nothing new. I think he was quite involved getting the VW dampers good also. Ive heard that Sainz brought with him some damper genius, dont know his name.

Sainz is maby the most meticulous WRC test driver of all time, and there is little new under the sun, so to bring him in could be a good idea.

What I dont understand with the Citroën problem - and I dont agree that it has been all Meeke, though he should own up to some of the "moments" - but what is the biggest enigma, is how its possible to do so much testing with a rally car and end up with these kind of major challenges.
Meeke says that he is a very good test driver, and that he really enjoys test driving, Citroën is a fabulous WRC team with an unmatched record, so how is it possible to get into this position.

Something must have happened behind the scenes.
Some have hinted it to be a WTCC car made for the rally stages, I dont know about that, but I really wonder what is the reason why the car isn´t of the usual Citröen standard.

But then again, I think its small things that needs to be done to get it good, and it will be interesting to see Andreas in it.
If it goes as I think it will, it can be a sobering rally for his team mates. If Andreas is not able to make an impression, then the car definitely has some major challenges.

[mknight]

- but what is the biggest enigma, is how its possible to do so much testing with a rally car and end up with these kind of major challenges.
Meeke says that he is a very good test driver, and that he really enjoys test driving, Citroën is a fabulous WRC team with an unmatched record, so how is it possible to get into this position.

Something must have happened behind the scenes.
Some have hinted it to be a WTCC car made for the rally stages, I dont know about that, but I really wonder what is the reason why the car isn´t of the usual Citröen standard.



Yes, they spend most of the year off testing and developing the C3.. and then end up not having setup for Monte and Sweden (their own words) and (possibly) suspension issues.

One possible issue is that they have less money than others, then again there were some lists about who drove how many test kms with the new cars and Citroen was leading by far.

But I also have to note that the last winning Citroen car was DS3 WRC. Both R5 cars are worse than both Fabia and Fiesta.

[olemann]

I think the Citroen is going to bite back .....

[Rally Power]

Looking at one of the test videos from Andreas, he passes over a not big, but sharp bump. It looks like the car is bottoming out. Dont know if Andreas tested an upgraded car or not.(...)
Sainz is maby the most meticulous WRC test driver of all time, and there is little new under the sun, so to bring him in could be a good idea.

I've seen the car testing and rallying and I wasn't able to see anything fundamentally wrong. What seems to be missing (strangely, for a former WRC champ team) is the ability to adapt the car to different events specific terrains.

For sure Sainz still is a fantastic test driver, but I don't see how him, or any other former WRC driver, can help to find the right set up for each current WRC round, unless Citroen hire them on a permanent basis...btw, this Sainz news came after his 208 Red Bull TV test, with Sainz saying he'd love to try a WRC car; the 'bring Sainz to help' talk came from journos minds.

[er88]

Isn't this talk about the alleged C3 suspensions problems becoming a bit ridiculous? How can a car that won at Mexico, lead at Corsica and usually ends events at the top 5 with a less experienced driver have a major issue? Honestly, the more bristish journos talk about this the more it seems they're trying to elude Meeke's erratic driving.
If the problems weren't real the team wouldn't have openly admitted it, and confirmed they have a big update planned in that department for later in the year. The team knows it, the drivers know it, ex drivers know it, and journalist and fans know there's issues.

Doesn't mean Meeke shouldn't take the blame for his offs. Portugal was a bad bad mistake considering he was looking good to take the lead on that stage. The 2nd off in Argentina was stupid as well with nothing to gain.

However I still believe the car has superb potential. Despite the engine blowing up in Corsica (something that has happened only a handful of times in Citroën's WRC history), Meeke was pretty comfortable and beating Ogier and Neuville on pure tarmac pace. The car looked great, and as you say he won in Mexico and could've won in Portugal as well...

[mknight]

Corsica was caused by a hose? disconnecting last I heard.

[car]

David Evans (U.K. Rally journo) reports on twitter that there will be some big bad news about rally.... any ideas? Meeke binned?

[noel157]

David Evans (U.K. Rally journo) reports on twitter that there will be some big bad news about rally.... any ideas? Meeke binned?



Saw that, hard to know. Unless Mikkelsen is a factor?

[EstWRC]

Yeah I just saw it too and wondered what he is trying to say. Ford not coming back? Citroen leaving?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'd guess its some general rally issue rather than about an individual.

[AnttiL]

Citroen leaving?

My initial thought

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen leaving is a possibility as I read it sees its future in the luxury/comfort car market. WRC wont fit with that...

[Watson]

It could also be that Ford won't come back and Wilson closes down the shop.

Worst case scenario from my point of view.

[tommeke_B]

It's just a tweet to sell more. Could be anything from an event that gets cancelled to next year's WRC regulations making cars slower again...

[mmm]

I think/hope its too early for Ford news - expecting first noises about Ford more mid-end of summer.

[macebig]

Chicanes to be added at Poland and NORF...Just a bet.

[Eli]

or maybe Toyota threatens the FIA that it will leave the champ. next year if they don't take it down to 10 events...

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

No Rally GB for next year..?

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[SubaruNorway]

Corsica was caused by a hose? disconnecting last I heard.

Correct, a new type of fitting that failed.

[noel157]

No Rally GB for next year..?

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

Might not be too far wrong. Or something minor(ish). RGB to become every other year?

Or Motoring News to disappear.....

[Eli]

Might not be too far wrong. Or something minor(ish). RGB to become every other year?
If they take out Wales Rally GB, or Rally Finland or Monte Carlo Rally I'll be gutted.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[GravelBen]

It's just a tweet to sell more.

This.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

From MN editor Jack Benyon:
'Thanks to great work by @davidevansrally among others, there's always a reason to pick up @MNmotorsport. This news affects many in rallying. '

[EightGear]

We're counting on you Simmi. Dont let us down.

[Simmi]

We're counting on you Simmi. Dont let us down.

Will post it ASAP in the morning unless someone else does first. Although I guess if it's that bad then it may break before then.


While we're all taking guesses. I'll go for WRC promoter pulling out. But it could literally be anything. Might not even be WRC related.

[mknight]

My guess is not directly WRC related. Something like "race car emission limits".

[Andre Oliveira]

Mull Rally

2017 Beatson’s Mull Rally — Statement
It is a matter of considerable regret for the organisers and the Motor Sport Association, the sport’s governing body, that the Beatson’s Building Supplies Mull Rally cannot run as a closed road event in 2017 due to insurmountable insurance issues.

MSA Chief Executive Rob Jones explained the current situation:

“The Mull Rally runs under a private Act of Parliament. It has emerged that the private closed road legislation raises very significant insurance challenges for Mull this year, which was first thought to render the Mull Rally uninsurable.

“The MSA has been endeavouring to find a solution with its brokers. Whilst the brokers have offered a potential solution for 2017, this is unfortunately totally impractical as each and every claim under the policy would be subject to a very significant excess payable by the organisers, and one which the organisers cannot afford.”

Consequently the Mull Rally is unable to run as a closed road event this year. It will be the first time the world renowned three-day rally, which last year attracted a record-equalling 150 crews and generates around £1 million for the local economy, will not have run on closed public roads since the event was granted its Act of Parliament in 1990.

“This development has come as a massive shock,” Andy Jardine, Mull Rally Clerk of the Course, said on receiving the news, “as we were well on with a lot of the early work of setting the route and preparing the paperwork.

“As I understand it, the MSA has been working behind the scenes to try and agree a work-around but have been unable to come up with an acceptable solution. Our attention is now focussed on what can be done in the short timescale to make sure something happens over the weekend.”

Donald Brown, chairman of the Guardians of Mull Rally, admitted the cancellation of the 2017 Mull Rally will have a negative financial impact on the island.

“There’s no denying this is a huge blow to the Island and its businesses who work hard to welcome the competitors, volunteers and spectators each year to the island in October,” Brown said.

“The organising team is endeavouring to put on an alternative motorsport event for the same weekend on Mull. Naturally those plans are at a very early stage of development, but it’s hoped the new event will be attractive to Mull residents, competitors, volunteers and spectators alike.

“Initial feasibility checks have been started to see what can be done to mitigate the impact and hope we can rely on our regular visitors continuing to support us.”

The MSA and Mull Rally organisers fully acknowledge the Mull Rally's economic benefit of around £1 million to the Isle of Mull.

It is hoped that following the conclusion of the Fatal Accident Inquiry into the Jim Clark and Snowman rallies in July and August this year, that the Scottish Government will quickly adopt the new legislation recently passed in Westminster which will allow the Mull Rally to make a return in its closed road format in 2018.

[Munkvy]

Do organisers not pass the excess on to competitors for insurance in the UK? For example in NZ we have event insurance, but the competitor is liable for the excess, which is normally about $3500, so still worthwhile if you hit a power pole or a house, otherwise not too many claims.

[Simmi]

Yeah so the Mull insurance issue is the front page story and the bad news. As you were...

[AnttiL]

Yeah so the Mull insurance issue is the front page story and the bad news. As you were...

And that's supposed to touch every rally fan? I didn't even know about such event.

[greencroft]

And that's supposed to touch every rally fan? I didn't even know about such event.

Not WRC admittedly but the Tour of Mull has a massive place in the UK rally calendar. It is steeped in rally history from its early roots as a road rally then evolved into possibly the most popular and certainly one of the most challenging closed roads events in the UK. It really is like no other event over here and since the loss of the Jim Clark Rally (hopefully still temporary), it was for many the only opportunity to drive on a closed roads event.

For those involved in the event, this will be a very bitter pill to swallow.

Sorry if this is off topic but I thought it worthwhile explaining why a UK motorsport publication was making a big deal of it.

[pantealex]

And that's supposed to touch every rally fan? I didn't even know about such event.

I´m pretty sure that it has never been WRC event and this is "WRC News & Rumours"

[Brynmor Pierce]

There is relevance...
Until 18 months ago it was the same clerk of the course as Rally GB in Iain Campbell, there is also the wider issue of linking stages on Rally GB with small Asphalt sections. This will all fall under the new legislation longer term, so whilst it may not jump off the page as relevant, there actually is a lot buried away that is indeed relevant...hope that helps explain cheers

[EstWRC]

lmao!!!

[WRC1]

And that's supposed to touch every rally fan? I didn't even know about such event.


....BIG NEWS: a bicycle has fallen down in Peking yesterday evening :) nobody see this coming...it simply fell down...fortunatly nobody was hurt...:)

[Watson]

Jesus. And we (well some of us) got all upset. Kudos to the ones that could smell the bait turd.

[Mirek]

And that's supposed to touch every rally fan? I didn't even know about such event.

That's true but on the other hand it's still sad news. The rally had some of the very best asphalt stages in the world and I am dead serious about that. Calgary Bay could be a worldwide known legend if it was run in WRC...

[[WRCRR]]

Yes, I agree that the news shouldn't really be in the WRC news section but the potential implications of the new legislation might have a big impact on the future of rallying in UK, and might eventually effect also Rally GB as was already mentioned by Brynmor Pierce...

[AnttiL]

;1140550']Yes, I agree that the news shouldn't really be in the WRC news section

I don't blame for anyone posting the tweets here because they didn't really say it was non-WRC news, instead it was implied by talking about "big bad news for every rally fan".

[Eli]

So at then end was there anything related to WRC news in MN today?

[Watson]

So at then end was there anything related to WRC news in MN today?
Nope. BREAKING NEWS - some rally got cancelled in some armpit in Britain that noone south of the channel ever heard of. BUY A COPY NOW!

[AL14]

Jesus. And we (well some of us) got all upset. Kudos to the ones that could smell the bait turd.

That was... elementary, my dear Watson

[Watson]

That was... elementary, my dear Watson
Nice one. :D

[AL14]

Nice one. :D

I was waiting for this moment since the first time I saw you in this forum.

[N.O.T]

why post worthless news from the autism land ?

[Watson]

why post worthless news from the autism land ?

Question back to you: Why post worthless autism from news land?

You need a new catchphrase.

[Simmi]

So at then end was there anything related to WRC news in MN today?

Plenty of Sardinia preview stuff but not really anything of massive interest. Like a couple of others have said, Rally GB organisers talking about using some tiny tarmac sections of stage to link forests together. Nothing that is really going to impact the average fan. And obviously not anything that will be incorporated this season.

[MrJan]

Do organisers not pass the excess on to competitors for insurance in the UK? For example in NZ we have event insurance, but the competitor is liable for the excess, which is normally about $3500, so still worthwhile if you hit a power pole or a house, otherwise not too many claims.

This will give you an idea https://www.msauk.org/assets/405-409insuranceandmotorcompetitionsappendix2-1.pdf Excess is is payable by the organising club and normally £425, however obviously Mull was considered to be a special case and presumably the amount asked for by the insurers was deemed too high for the club to risk. Remember that clubs are mostly small and volunteer lead. In theory they could provide in the regs that competitors would be responsible for the excess, but if an incident occured then it would be up to the club to first pay the excess to the MSA/insurers. They could then try to recover that money from the competitor but that wouldn't necessarily be a quick process. If the excess was, say £5,000, then there's a chance that the club wouldn't have the kind of money required to actually pay.

You also have to remember that the current 'climate' of rallying in the UK is in a pretty precarious situation in regard to liability. The incident on the Jim Clark in 2014 (and subsequent inquiry) mean that the insurers are particularly jumpy. I suspect


I don't blame for anyone posting the tweets here because they didn't really say it was non-WRC news, instead it was implied by talking about "big bad news for every rally fan".

It's a UK publication so would angle everything towards UK fans, hardly surprising.

[AndyRAC]

Well said Jan; it may not interest a lot of people on here, understandable I suppose - but this is a major UK rally story; the Mull Rally is probably the best event in the UK, and the reason for it's cancellation is possibly quite serious for other events.

[Munkvy]

This will give you an idea https://www.msauk.org/assets/405-409insuranceandmotorcompetitionsappendix2-1.pdf Excess is is payable by the organising club and normally £425, however obviously Mull was considered to be a special case and presumably the amount asked for by the insurers was deemed too high for the club to risk. Remember that clubs are mostly small and volunteer lead. In theory they could provide in the regs that competitors would be responsible for the excess, but if an incident occured then it would be up to the club to first pay the excess to the MSA/insurers. They could then try to recover that money from the competitor but that wouldn't necessarily be a quick process. If the excess was, say £5,000, then there's a chance that the club wouldn't have the kind of money required to actually pay.

You also have to remember that the current 'climate' of rallying in the UK is in a pretty precarious situation in regard to liability. The incident on the Jim Clark in 2014 (and subsequent inquiry) mean that the insurers are particularly jumpy. I suspect



It's a UK publication so would angle everything towards UK fans, hardly surprising.

Thanks for the explanation, I am surprised you don't have to pay your own excess as a competitor, but I get what you mean about the club liability if there was a lot of crashes - we certainly have that risk here in NZ as we are a little smaller, but have quite a bit of motorsport for our size. In NZ you would I imagine simply loose your motorsport license if you didn't pay the clubs, so a fairly good incentive?

Hopefully this doesn't continue to happen!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Getting reasonable insurance cover and other rising costs have also been a big issue over in Ireland. There has been some progress in a recent meeting between competitors and Motorsport Ireland (see link) but many Irish events and the sport in general remain in a very precarious position.

"even if the cost of entry fees drop next year or the year after, it will be too late as some competitors are beginning to sell their cars and are quitting the sport." :(

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/other-sports/some-progress-made-on-resolving-insurance-crux-450931.html

[MrJan]

In NZ you would I imagine simply loose your motorsport license if you didn't pay the clubs, so a fairly good incentive?

The same would probably happen here too.

I suspect that the genuine problem is that the excess being asked is far more than anything the MSA have had previously, to the extent that even an organisation as the MSA aren't willing to even underwrite the excess. The decision wouldn't have been taken lightly and as Andy says it could possibly signal future issues for other events (which is why MN consider it a big deal).

[RAS007]

Nope. BREAKING NEWS - some rally got cancelled in some armpit in Britain that noone south of the channel ever heard of. BUY A COPY NOW!

Not really fair. That said, while it was certainly bad news, it certainly wasn't "big" news "touching every rally fan" and Evans was quite wrong and misleading to set the story up that way.

[RAS007]

Chicanes to be added at Poland and NORF...Just a bet.

This would be big news, and bad news.

[RAS007]

If the problems weren't real the team wouldn't have openly admitted it, and confirmed they have a big update planned in that department for later in the year. The team knows it, the drivers know it, ex drivers know it, and journalist and fans know there's issues.

Doesn't mean Meeke shouldn't take the blame for his offs. Portugal was a bad bad mistake considering he was looking good to take the lead on that stage. The 2nd off in Argentina was stupid as well with nothing to gain.

However I still believe the car has superb potential. Despite the engine blowing up in Corsica (something that has happened only a handful of times in Citroën's WRC history), Meeke was pretty comfortable and beating Ogier and Neuville on pure tarmac pace. The car looked great, and as you say he won in Mexico and could've won in Portugal as well...

Not to pile on Meeke, but didn't he do the lion's share of the development work on the car? If I'm off base, I apologize, but some drivers just aren't that great at development work, and others are (Sainz and Delecour come to mind).

[AnttiL]

Chicanes to be added at Poland and NORF...Just a bet.

Well at least it's happening in NORF. Not traditional chicanes, but something to slow down the fast sections. No haybales that move and break when you bump into them. Something on every stage.

Also the rally clerk says that he does not like the added speed and drivability of the new WRC cars, and that next year they will probably have to redesign the rally route for smaller and slower roads.

And also the tractor chicane on SSS Harju that Ogier complained about, will not be there this year.

http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005244717.html (in Finnish)

[pantealex]

Well at least it's happening in NORF. Not traditional chicanes, but something to slow down the fast sections. No haybales that move and break when you bump into them. Something on every stage.

Also the rally clerk says that he does not like the added speed and drivability of the new WRC cars, and that next year they will probably have to redesign the rally route for smaller and slower roads.

And also the tractor chicane on SSS Harju that Ogier complained about, will not be there this year.

http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005244717.html (in Finnish)

btw. It´s NRF (Neste Rally Finland), Oil part has been dropped over year ago...

[Hartusvuori]

btw. It´s NRF (Neste Rally Finland), Oil part has been dropped over year ago...

By the way, it sounds stupid to call it NRF. I prefer Rally Finland and can live with NORF.

Route changes won't concern every stage, but almost every stage. Most notable must be SS Päijälä to which they are applying permissions for a new slower section in the middle. Other changes will be must smaller, some kind of "natural chicanes" using junctions to connecting roads or so. Also the anti-cut poles they introduced last year will be used this year.

Removal of tractor chicaine could be solely because Valtra isn't (that big) a sponsor this year as it were last year.

[AnttiL]

Route changes won't concern every stage, but almost every stage.

Not sure if you have additional information, but in the interview he says "varmaan ihan joka pätkälle" which translates roughly to "probably to each and every stage". So at the same time he's diminishing ("varmaan") and emphasizing ("ihan") his comment.

[Watson]

Just stop it with the abbreviations altogether. This silly internet slang gives me a stomach ache. The only thing worse than people writing whole paragraphs in shorthand is when they rape the English grammar with toss like 'could of'.

[AnttiL]

I still haven't learned not to call it 1000 Lakes Rally ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wales Rally GB eyeing the use of closed roads for 2018 as a way of refreshing the event's competitive route. https://t.co/R8u0EFXRVG https://t.co/sm3RcHvChE

[MrJan]

This would be big news, and bad news.

Not sure that I agree that 'some chicanes' is bigger news than losing a fairly major national event. Particularly as Evans didn't tweet anything about 'all rally fans'. Unfair to say he mislead when the tweet he posted was:

"Always important for rally fans to pick up @MNmotorsport first thing on a Wednesday. Tomorrow it's doubly important. #bigbadnews"

As I said before, it's a UK publication and to me that tweet is aimed at the readership (i.e UK based). In those terms the news was fairly big and fairly bad.

[Rallyper]

This discussion about NORF (NRF, Thousand Lakes, Jyväskylän Suurajot) route would be better in Rally Finland thread, wouldn´t it?

[AnttiL]

This discussion about NORF (NRF, Thousand Lakes, Jyväskylän Suurajot) route would be better in Rally Finland thread, wouldn´t it?

True. I just happened to see someone suspecting chicanes so I quoted that. But if an administrator can move the posts, I'm happy to continue the discussion in the correct thread :)

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

I wonder if Qatar's diplomatic conflict would affecting Nasser..?

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[Mirek]

Most likely so since Al Attiyah family is part of the rulling establishment in Qatar. Only time will show how the conflict evolves but everything is possible.

[AL14]

Yeah, I thought the same, let's see...

[AndyRAC]

Wales Rally GB eyeing the use of closed roads for 2018 as a way of refreshing the event's competitive route. https://t.co/R8u0EFXRVG https://t.co/sm3RcHvChE

They don't need to use 'closed roads' to refresh the event. There's plenty of decent forests they can use; Halfway, Crychan, et al....and make it really tough!! ;)

[the sniper]

They don't need to use 'closed roads' to refresh the event. There's plenty of decent forests they can use; Halfway, Crychan, et al....and make it really tough!! ;)

Event co-ordinator Andrew Kellitt said that Hayden Paddon suggested using Crychan and Halfway, but said himself they were too far south (https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/rally-gb-eyeing-closed-roads-for-2018/). I don't know why they can't use a remote service to reach further south... They talk up it being a great challenge, and it's not a bad route for what it is, but 306km, two unique full length stages on the Friday... It might not be unusual for the modern WRC, but going by the history of this sport, it is really pathetic!

Rallying, especially in the UK, has its organisational challenges event wise, but by comparison look at cycling as a sport. In the UK it's bigger than it has ever been, yet it isn't a sport that has watered down its events or sold its soul for convenience. Cycling still has mammoth endurance events, real EVENTS, that reach out to people, cover huge areas, draw people in and attract huge crowds. Rallying by contrast has spent nearly 20 years chasing its own tail around in ever decreasing circles! Colin Heppenstall and the RAC Rally have shown that there are still people in this sport who have the balls to think outside of the shoe box sized box that rallying's powers that be have trapped themselves inside, but the likes of the MSA and FIA need to wake up and stop playing it safe...

Sorry for the rather UK-centric post... Plus I know I'm preaching to the choir!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's clear we need to grow rallying in the UK and get the sport back in the sight of the general public. Sports like cycling have done this and had great success. But the changes proposed about using closed roads is pathetic and a far greater shake-up is needed.

The old RAC Rally had a many stages in the grounds of stately homes, circuits, even safari parks, that brought rallying to the people.

IMO they need to bring this idea back for a while to get the general public interested again. Once that is established many people become real rally fans and will go to watch in the forests.

My thought would be for more stages nearer to the English border where there are large areas of population. These fans would then be drawn to going to the main stages in Wales.

[MrJan]

It's clear we need to grow rallying in the UK and get the sport back in the sight of the general public.

Organisers would probably argue that arranging the event round something like Chirk Castle is doing exactly that. I'm not sure that I fully agree though.

[dimviii]

Kalle took his driving licence successfully.(lol)

KalleRovanperaRacing‏*@KalleRovanpera
Driving Permit application successful. Biggest thanks to Trafi for flexibility and understanding this will be a big help.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB4TWZ0XgAEWTxX.jpg

[pantealex]

Not sure if you have additional information, but in the interview he says "varmaan ihan joka pätkälle" which translates roughly to "probably to each and every stage". So at the same time he's diminishing ("varmaan") and emphasizing ("ihan") his comment.

Harju will be same as last year, all others not.

[AnttiL]

Harju will be same as last year, all others not.

no, we already know the tractor chicane will be gone from Harju.

[pantealex]

Kalle took his driving licence successfully.(lol)

KalleRovanperaRacing‏*@KalleRovanpera
Driving Permit application successful. Biggest thanks to Trafi for flexibility and understanding this will be a big help.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB4TWZ0XgAEWTxX.jpg

He will get actual license in October? when he will turn 17y, until that he can only drive with "teacher" (aka HARRI)

[AnttiL]

He will get actual license in October? when he will turn 17y, until that he can only drive with "teacher" (aka HARRI)

yes. He got a special permission to get the license when he turns 17 so he started taking lessons.

[pantealex]

no, we already know the tractor chicane will be gone from Harju.

Stage will be same, chicane in same place just not Valtra this time.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

According from the Citroen Racing's Facebook, the Poland lineup would be Andreas, Craig, & Stephane.

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[nafpaktos]

confused!!


Q:You are now third in the Championship which is great!
OT:
Not so good, I was really hoping of getting some more points from the Power Stage that I would start fourth in Poland so this makes my life harder for Poland

[Kalm]

confused!!


Q:You are now third in the Championship which is great!
OT:
Not so good, I was really hoping of getting some more points from the Power Stage that I would start fourth in Poland so this makes my life harder for Poland

He actually said :" i was really hoping Jari will get more points from the power stage ..." :)

[pantealex]

New production model of VW Polo will be unveiled this friday 16.6.

This probably does´t mean anything to rally, yet. But you never know what is going to happen later.

Their 2017 mule is/was built in this new platform (longer wheelbase than 15`model, easy to spot from 2017 mule pictures)

edit. my mistake:

VW is building R5

[macebig]

New production model of VW Polo will be unveiled this friday 16.6.

This probably does´t mean anything to rally, yet. But you never know what is going to happen later.

Their 2017 mule is/was built in this new platform (longer wheelbase than 15`model, easy to spot from 2017 mule pictures)

It means.They have mentioned that the new gen Polo will be used to create a VW R5.

[dimviii]

Colin Clark‏*@voiceofrally
Hearing that Bobby K was very close to a deal for a '17 car to do Corsica, Sardinia and Poland. Boo bloody hoo

[Franky]

Why can't people just write names properly?

[stefanvv]

Because they're americans.

[EstWRC]

what the? i dont believe that at all....Kubica has just said in an interview that he has only trained and is training for a full F1 comeback....why the wrc rounds for him then?

[seb_sh]

He also had a deal to race in the WEC but backed out, also testing various single seaters, strange things happening with him.

[Andre Oliveira]

He still have Fiesta WRC in garage

[EstWRC]

He also had a deal to race in the WEC but backed out, also testing various single seaters, strange things happening with him.

thats the reason why he backed, that renault test he had and training to get to f1. GP3 test was to prepare for that renault test and etc.



anyway this is another topic.

[AL14]

Imagine the return of Kubica in a Toyota. N.O.T would have gone completely crazy lol :D

[seb_sh]

Imagine the return of Kubica in a Toyota. N.O.T would have gone completely crazy lol :D

Kubica in a Toyota winning a rally, now that'll make him eat dog food again, lol :D

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCRUy5YXYAEykw9.jpg

[tomhlord]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCRUy5YXYAEykw9.jpg

That would be cool.

[Marcco]

Imagine the return of Kubica in a Toyota. N.O.T would have gone completely crazy lol :D

And return of Hirvonen in a Toyota would top up N.O.T.'s dream (nightmare) team list :)

[steve.mandzij]

And return of Hirvonen in a Toyota would top up N.O.T.'s dream (nightmare) team list :)
What did he say of Hirvonen? "Sick dog nobody"?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[macebig]

What did he say of Hirvonen? "Sick dog nobody"?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Everyone not named Loeb or Ogier is a sick dog for NOT.

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130134/lappi-secures-toyota-seat-for-rest-of-year

Australia included.

[AnttiL]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130134/lappi-secures-toyota-seat-for-rest-of-year

Australia included.

Mäkinen said that already after Portugal

[Eli]

Mäkinen said that already after Portugal
Well you know autosport, always in delay.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

Well you know autosport, always in delay.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

just like today's news about Ogier's next season

[Eli]

just like today's news about Ogier's next season
Exactly

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[GigiGalliNo1]

Ouch

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/ogier-lays-out-demands-for-ford-wrc-stay/

[Tarmop]

Quite old news, but yeah, hope for a rich sponsor or Ford.

[macebig]

Why aren't they trying to get Monster Energy to back them? They already work together in RX and previously in the WRC plus Monster is sponsoring V8SC and Nascar Ford teams. Also, I am fairly sure Monster higher ups will happily rub their hands in the prospect of prying a top athlete away from Red Bull.

[Gregor-y]

Ogier's Red Bull sponsorship is independent of Ford. Monster would have throw a lot of money at both driver and team.
Is Monster very big in Europe?

[AL14]

I don't know if Monster wants to promote himself in a sport promoted by Redbull.

[macebig]

Ogier's Red Bull sponsorship is independent of Ford. Monster would have throw a lot of money at both driver and team.
Is Monster very big in Europe?

They are expanding. From a motorsport perspective they have the Mercedes F1 team and the Yamaha MotoGP one. Lewis Hamilton and Valentino Rossi (arguably the 2 guys with the biggest mainstream fame in motorsport today) are part of these squads.

[macebig]

I don't know if Monster wants to promote himself in a sport promoted by Redbull.

RX is promoted by Monster and Red Bull have no problem sponsoring the Peugeot Hansen squad.

[AL14]

RX is promoted by Monster and Red Bull have no problem sponsoring the Peugeot Hansen squad.

Didn't know that. I was sure Monster wasn't in WRC beacause of it. Now I wonder why they are not there...

[Mirek]

RX is promoted by Monster and Red Bull have no problem sponsoring the Peugeot Hansen squad.

That doesn't mean that it must apply also vice versa.

[macebig]

That doesn't mean that it must apply also vice versa.

True. But Monster and Red Bull are competitive products. So, if a chance presented itself, Monster guys will probably love to stick it to the Red Bull ones, and vice versa.

[Watson]

I was thinking maybe Red Bull could become head sponsor of M-Sport, maybe with the brand name Red Bull M-Sport WRT with the livery on all three cars. A bit like their F1 teams. And yeah, I'm starting to clutch at straws.

[Grundo Farb]

https://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Hayden-paddon-engage-sur-la-manche-du-championnat-de-france-du-rouergue/809926

Interesting, looks like another Tarmac rally for practice for Paddon. The team is giving him great support, which you don't do if you are thinking of getting rid of someone.

[mknight]

https://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Hayden-paddon-engage-sur-la-manche-du-championnat-de-france-du-rouergue/809926

Interesting, looks like another Tarmac rally for practice for Paddon. The team is giving him great support, which you don't do if you are thinking of getting rid of someone.

Østberg drove 2 tarmac rallies in R5 with M-Sport last year. Not like they kept him. Malcolm had a deal with Mikkelsen in case Ogier didn't join.

[tommeke_B]

Østberg drove 2 tarmac rallies in R5 with M-Sport last year. Not like they kept him. Malcolm had a deal with Mikkelsen in case Ogier didn't join.

I think you cannot really compare that. That was with Adapta, most likely Mads his own initiatives.

[AnttiL]

Østberg has also driven some Norwegian events this year in an R5 Fiesta.

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCRUy5YXYAEykw9.jpg

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/teenage-star-rovanpera-targets-rally-gb-debut/


Rovanpera’s manager Timo Jouhki said: “Kalle will be in Wales. For the moment, we don’t know what car he will be using, but we know that he will be coming and he will do Rally GB.”
...
“What this means is that he can come to Rally GB and he can go to events like Argentina, probably Mexico, Finland, GB, Australia and Spain – Spain he can do anyway because he will be 18 by then.”
...
“He doesn’t need to be in a World Rally Car yet,” said Jouhki. “I know how good he is. He could do very well in a World Rally Car, but it’s unnecessary. While he can’t do a full season of WRC2, we will probably bring him to this championship because it helps for him to run in the right place [among the priority two drivers on the road] and it’s helping with the profile.”

[AnttiL]

More Rovanperä news, in Finnish: https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9671916?origin=rss

In here his manager says that the intention is to drive Wales in R5 class with either Skoda or Ford.

[Mk2 RS2000]

https://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Hayden-paddon-engage-sur-la-manche-du-championnat-de-france-du-rouergue/809926

Interesting, looks like another Tarmac rally for practice for Paddon. The team is giving him great support, which you don't do if you are thinking of getting rid of someone.

Asian Manufacturers are loyal to drivers who are loyal to them. Currently Hayden is back in NZ for a very short stay just to assist and promote Hyundai at the National Field days.

[dimviii]

M-sport sells the 2 storey motorhome for 600.000 GBR + vat

[Rallyper]

M-sport sells the 2 storey motorhome for 600.000 GBR + vat

That is the building they had in service park a few years ago?

[EstWRC]

Yes, back In the ford days

[dimviii]

That is the building they had in service park a few years ago?

yeap this one,i saw it at twitter but lost the link Per.

[Rallyper]

yeap this one,i saw it at twitter but lost the link Per.

They had it in Greece in 2012 I remember.

[dimviii]

They had it in Greece in 2012 I remember.

yes this one.

https://www.motorsportauctions.com/index.php?a=2&b=36476

[NoName]

It have been for sale for around 2 year,
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/60123/two-story-hospitality-unit

[EstWRC]

SOMEONE DAMN BUY IT WE CAN KEEP OGIER AND TÄNAK THEN


thank you

[NoName]

Would be better to get ford or a big big sponsor over several year's. And keep the hospitality too please all the sponsors

[Watson]

Are we sure that they sell it just to get money? They are in pursuit of a couple of dozen millions.

[mknight]

Not much related to rallying, so just for those interested:

Mikkelsen and his half-brother are suing the largest telecom operator in Norway over IPR to a car app that utilizes recorded driving habits.
https://www.dn.no/etterBors/2017/06/16/2047/Teknologi/rallystjerne-til-sak-mot-telenor

[nafpaktos]

i read that ogier will drive tomorrow a red bull f1 car

[steve.mandzij]

i read that ogier will drive tomorrow a red bull f1 car
Source?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[macebig]

Can corfirm. No English links but various French, Italian websites and the most respected Greek car magazine are reporting on it.

[EstWRC]

https://twitter.com/SebOgier/status/876856319399145473


https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpilote-de-course.com%2Fsebastien-ogier-va-rouler-f1%2F&edit-text=

[racerx1979]

He also did a test at the end of 2016. Wonder if this is more serious.. Seb's tweet is hard to read. Time will tell...

I bet Malcom Wilson isnt too jazzed haha.

[GravelBen]

Just another PR stunt I expect, standard red bull marketing stuff.

[Watson]

He also did a test at the end of 2016. Wonder if this is more serious.. Seb's tweet is hard to read. Time will tell...

I bet Malcom Wilson isnt too jazzed haha.
Don't be silly he's 34. This is Red Bull, where the product is a sad excuse for the marketing. They put Tom Cruise in an F1 car and they would invite the pope if they could. I bet Wilson doesn't mind the publicity for his driver and therefore his team either.

[BigWorm]

Looks like Red Bull ring. Now both Sebastiens have driven F1 cars?

[Andre Oliveira]

Armin Kremer with Fiesta WRC17 at Germany

[MrJan]

I bet Malcom Wilson isnt too jazzed haha.

Given that Red Bull are paying for him to have a multiple world champion and arguably the best WRC driver at the minute, I suspect he's just fine with it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Armin Kremer with Fiesta WRC17 at Germany

What's happening here, is this an extra 2017 Fiesta or is it someone else's car he'll be using eg. Bertelli ?

[AnttiL]

What's happening here, is this an extra 2017 Fiesta or is it someone else's car he'll be using eg. Bertelli ?

Just an M-Sport rented car like Suninen?

[Watson]

I think the reason for the Kremer thing is that it is good publicity for Ford in Germany (they have a huge production plant in Cologne and Fords are really popular cars there) and the Germans love local rally drivers so naturally they like to see one of theirs competing in a contemporary car at their WRC round.

[focus206]

I think the reason for the Kremer thing is that it is good publicity for Ford in Germany (they have a huge production plant in Cologne and Fords are really popular cars there) and the Germans love local rally drivers so naturally they like to see one of theirs competing in a contemporary car at their WRC round.

Not only a huge production plant, Ford Europe is based in Cologne :)

[Andre Oliveira]

Thats the point. Ford Europe ;)

In Germany Ogier will have new car again. So, the other are now as test car. Maybe the former test car will be refurbished to Suninen or Bertelli one.

Kremer Ford history ;)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCxFbDmWsAMrXz5?format=jpg&name=large

[bugwrx]

And no new car for Tänak ? Still with the old one, while Ogier gets his third ?

This sounds quite odd ...

[Watson]

Thats the point. Ford Europe ;)


Possibly M-Sport will get some backing off of Ford Europe and a main [German?] sponsor next season and they will announce the collaboration in Germany with Kremer driving a car with the next year sponsor livery?

A man can dream.

[macebig]

I have to point out again that Ford's motorsport (and marketing) budget is now under the total control of FoMoCo in Dearborn, Michigan. Sorry, to burst your bubble.:)

[racerx1979]

And we all know how much Americans love rally

[stefanvv]

What do they love the most?

[steve.mandzij]

What do they love the most?
Handegg

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[stefanvv]

:D, that's not even a sport. I was thinking more global anyway. Otherwise icehockey is good.

[Rally Power]

I have to point out again that Ford's motorsport (and marketing) budget is now under the total control of FoMoCo in Dearborn, Michigan. Sorry, to burst your bubble.:)

James Fairley, Ford Europe former president (he left on June 1st) returned to Deaborn as he was promoted to FoMoCo vice president. He knows what MSport has been doing at the WRC and how badly they need Ford full support. Fairley is also a notorious petrolhead so there's some hope he can be instrumental in Ford’s return, as we all want and the sport deserves. Fingers crossed.

[focus206]

I have to point out again that Ford's motorsport (and marketing) budget is now under the total control of FoMoCo in Dearborn, Michigan. Sorry, to burst your bubble.:)

I must have missed that. Weird, Ford Europe has always been very independent, any link/source?

[racerx1979]

What do they love the most?

Reality TV

[macebig]

I must have missed that. Weird, Ford Europe has always been very independent, any link/source?

Yes, Ford Europe was pretty much a different company to Ford US in the past. Different vehicles, different engines, non existent part sharing etc. But now, they are operating under the "One Ford" strategy, where everything is streamlined for global use under the parent company. And thats why the various performance brands (SVT in the US, Team RS in Europe, FPV in Australia) are now under the Ford Performance moniker, based in the US.

[Lousada]

I have to point out again that Ford's motorsport (and marketing) budget is now under the total control of FoMoCo in Dearborn, Michigan. Sorry, to burst your bubble.:)

Americans deciding about the Ford Rallycar project hmm.... Will this be the new Ford WRC then? :o

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/microsites/f150raptor/img/gallery/image13/desktop.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

I readed some news about Malcolm Wilson negotiations with Ford Europe. Can’t find it now

[macebig]

Americans deciding about the Ford Rallycar project hmm.... Will this be the new Ford WRC then? :o

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/microsites/f150raptor/img/gallery/image13/desktop.jpg

Thats a Baja 1000 F150 Raptor, so we can rest assured that it would handle rough stages just fine...;)

[Watson]

I readed some news about Malcolm Wilson negotiations with Ford Europe. Can’t find it now
Yeah, I read that too. Actually in one outlet I read he was negotiating with both the Ford HQ in America and Ford Europe and in another one they were talking about him being in contact with Ford Europe. Now I'm confused.

[macebig]

http://social.ford.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Dave-Pericak-Ford-Performance-Interview-730x410-650x370.png
Thats the guy you re (mainly) looking for if you want Ford Performance backing.Dave Pericak.Gerard Quinn(the former Team RS head, who were previously backing Wilson) is now a subordinate of him.

[Zeakiwi]

Ford Australia - (FPV closed in 2014?) in 2017 from what I understand is built up car importer (with vehicle storage and spare parts warehouses), there is also the Product development centre (around 2000 staff) https://www.ford.com.au/about-ford/newsroom/2016/ford-readies-product-development-centre-to-drive-innovation--exp/ (The engine and vehicle manufacturing plants have been closed - Ford Falcon car and ute and Ford Territory -suv).

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130271/rally-gb-alters-itinerary-after-team-pressure

[dimviii]

Penasse at Belgium magazine

Alain, what do you think of the first half season of Thierry Neuville in the WRC?
"Since the beginning of the season, Thierry holds the super form. He took another step. He now approaches the rallies in a different way. He is calm, serene, sure of himself. He traces his races and his attitude on those of Ogier. "
Today, he returned to the 2nd place of the World, to 18 units of the quadruple champion of the French world. Can he always be crowned World Champion?
"I'm convinced, yes. He misses his two results of the start of the season, Monte Carlo and Sweden, where he lost two wins and nearly fifty points following small mistakes with great consequences. Otherwise, it would be far ahead. Ogier finished and scored big points each time. But he could also have once bad luck. And if that day, Thierry is in front he will fill the hole at a stroke. Since the beginning of the year, Hyundai-Neuville has signed the most scratches. So I imagine that he will take points on every rally in Ogier. "
Everyone agrees today that the Hyundai is the best WRC, the one with the best package. And yet you are 40 points behind M-Sport Ford in the builders' standings. How do you explain that?
"There are several factors. First the two victories lost in view of the arrival at the beginning of the year. Then the very bad start of season of Hayden Paddon. We also encountered some technical problems that cost us a few precious points as in Sardinia where Thierry should have won without a problem of brakes. Finally, we must admit that our opponents have a very good set of pilots this year. It will be tight, but we're going to fight. The title of the manufacturers is very important for the Koreans. "
Malcolm Wilson, the boss of M-Sport, clearly stated that he was ready to do anything to help Ogier crown the crown. Including giving instructions to his other pilots (Tanak and Evans) as he has already done in Portugal. Are you willing to do the same for Thierry?
"We still have to think about that. We'll see when we get into the situation. But it is clear that the title pilot is a priority and that this could be played at the end of years to a few points. Thierry is our candidate for the crown and if we can help him by changing the order of our drivers for a second or third place, why not? It is not forbidden. "

[Andre Oliveira]

http://social.ford.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Dave-Pericak-Ford-Performance-Interview-730x410-650x370.png
Thats the guy you re (mainly) looking for if you want Ford Performance backing.Dave Pericak.Gerard Quinn(the former Team RS head, who were previously backing Wilson) is now a subordinate of him.


The Ford Performance guy of Rallye Monte-Carlo: http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2017/ford-considering-wrc/page/4254--12-12-.html

[Watson]

I have a feeling that they might find some sort of solution where Ford pays 2/3 of the budget Wilson plans with to keep Ogier and the car competitive and the rest with a main sponsor. If you look at the cars now, there is no main sponsor on the livery other than Red Bull on Ogier's and DMack on Evans'. Tanak pretty much only has the MS-RT logo on it, which is an M-Sport owned thing. The next biggest thing is Castrol, which is still small. You'd expect someone would like to put their logo on there when they're doing so well.

[Augury]

Malcolm Wilson, the boss of M-Sport, clearly stated that he was ready to do anything to help Ogier crown the crown. Including giving instructions to his other pilots (Tanak and Evans) as he has already done in Portugal...

Huh? Malcom told Tänak to wreck his car?

[AnttiL]

Sounds like machine translation, maybe that means team orders?

[er88]

I have a feeling that they might find some sort of solution where Ford pays 2/3 of the budget Wilson plans with to keep Ogier and the car competitive and the rest with a main sponsor. If you look at the cars now, there is no main sponsor on the livery other than Red Bull on Ogier's and DMack on Evans'. Tanak pretty much only has the MS-RT logo on it, which is an M-Sport owned thing. The next biggest thing is Castrol, which is still small. You'd expect someone would like to put their logo on there when they're doing so well.
I think the Arabs might want to stop backing a dead horse (Citroen), if Msport can offer them better returns (titles and wins, as well as a car for as many events as Khalid wants to do).

[Rally Power]

http://social.ford.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Dave-Pericak-Ford-Performance-Interview-730x410-650x370.png
Thats the guy you re (mainly) looking for if you want Ford Performance backing.Dave Pericak.Gerard Quinn(the former Team RS head, who were previously backing Wilson) is now a subordinate of him.

Pericak was the guy that gave green light to Ford presence at the WRX, instead of returning to WRC. Ford Performance announcement on their WRX entry makes any proper rally fan sick, as they deliberately confused Ford WRC heritage with WRX, a racing series that wrongly still use the name of our sport. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/03/02/focus-rs-confirmed-for-competition-in-2016-fia-world-rallycross.html

It’s true that Ford big spending days are long gone (they’ve made Wilson pockets heavier, allowing MSport to built their state of art facilities and to become the world’s best private rally tuner), but the current situation is absurd. To see Ford acting like a parasite, profiting from MSport efforts without giving them the support they need and deserve, should be an embarrassment to Ford officials.

[stefanvv]

Reality TV

Sir Winston Churchill:


Reality is an illusion that occurs due to a lack of wine.

[Fitz]

I'm a bit fed up with 'what ifs' coming from other camps.
Who is to say Seb didn't have a bit more to give when Neuville retired in Monte and Sweden. It wasn't as if it was the last stage.
Then there was the Hyunda 'win' by a whole 0.7 seconds. Hardly commanding.

It's interesting that quite a few of the other cars have suffered heavy damage but the fiesta's are relatively unscathed in events. Maybe losing a corner of a bumper etc.

I do hope Seb stays at M-Sport. He does seem happy there or maybe he is still smiling at what he is doing there and his transformation of the team this year.

[stefanvv]

Hyundai are acting like someone wants to steal the titles from them (in case of Neuville - has eaten his breakfast), rather ridiculous.

[EstWRC]

Ogier having fun with Formula1 and Tänak having fun in rallycross


Ott Tänak‏ @OttTanak 18m18 minutes ago
More
I had some good fun with this guy @AndreasBakkerud You have a great Team around! #flatout


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DC3M3q4XsAAPcmM.jpg

[macebig]

Pericak was the guy that gave green light to Ford presence at the WRX, instead of returning to WRC. Ford Performance announcement on their WRX entry makes any proper rally fan sick, as they deliberately confused Ford WRC heritage with WRX, a racing series that wrongly still use the name of our sport. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/03/02/focus-rs-confirmed-for-competition-in-2016-fia-world-rallycross.html

It’s true that Ford big spending days are long gone (they’ve made Wilson pockets heavier, allowing MSport to built their state of art facilities and to become the world’s best private rally tuner), but the current situation is absurd. To see Ford acting like a parasite, profiting from MSport efforts without giving them the support they need and deserve, should be an embarrassment to Ford officials.

I don't think Ford higher ups are hostile against Wilson. They are still backing M Sport (there is no way Wilson would have been able to design, develop and homologate an unreleased vehicle without Ford's consent). Yes, their percentage of involvement could (and should) be higher. But they are still here. They could have very easily pulled a VW or even worse a BMW and screw a lot of people and themselves in the progress. I think maybe Wilson should make them understand that this is a lifetime chance. Citroen is a very bad state and the goal of 100 WRC victories could be marketing gold. Plus a proved champion and a very good young talent as drivers is Ford's purest chance to rack WCs that are sorely missing. Its a matter of investment versus return.

[Watson]

Pericak was the guy that gave green light to Ford presence at the WRX, instead of returning to WRC. Ford Performance announcement on their WRX entry makes any proper rally fan sick, as they deliberately confused Ford WRC heritage with WRX, a racing series that wrongly still use the name of our sport. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/03/02/focus-rs-confirmed-for-competition-in-2016-fia-world-rallycross.html

It’s true that Ford big spending days are long gone (they’ve made Wilson pockets heavier, allowing MSport to built their state of art facilities and to become the world’s best private rally tuner), but the current situation is absurd. To see Ford acting like a parasite, profiting from MSport efforts without giving them the support they need and deserve, should be an embarrassment to Ford officials.

Exactly. Besides, the Fords RX engagement is really not going too well. It seems to me that they just do it to brag around that they have Ken Block - and he is very very average at best. I hope they get a grips of themselves and see that there is way more potential in the WRC.

[dodge33cymru]

Must.

Not.

Comment.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130271/rally-gb-alters-itinerary-after-team-pressure

[Watson]

Must.

Not.

Comment.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130271/rally-gb-alters-itinerary-after-team-pressure

Please elaborate.

[AndyRAC]

No comment is needed; I suspect you have been away in France the past weekend watching the Endurance event that eclipses all.....and then this 'news'. Proper endurance isn't wanted in modern day WRC.

[the sniper]

Please elaborate.

If you'll pardon my language, I'd elaborate by saying it's a f***ing embarrassment... What an inconvenience it is to go rallying! It'd be easier not to bother at all...

So that'll be down to 299.13km of SS, unless they fiddle some of the other stages for the final itinerary. If it is 299km, it'll be the shortest planned* Rally GB ever. Going by Jonkka's site, it'll be the third* shortest WRC rally ever: http://www.juwra.com/stats_event_stage_mileage.html

*Rally GB 2008 was shortened pre-event due to Snow and Ice, but was originally supposed to be 66.64km longer.

[er88]

Rally GB needs a re-jig. I'd give Scotland 5yrs hosting the wrc round, Ireland the next 5yrs and England the 5yrs after that. Keep things fresh and utilise the stages we have here that are lying dormant. Wales has had its time and after the rally has been rotated around the rest of the "UK", it'll feel less stale when the rally would perhaps return to the north or south or south of Wales.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Arwel Davies]

Rally GB needs a re-jig. I'd give Scotland 5yrs hosting the wrc round, Ireland the next 5yrs and England the 5yrs after that. Keep things fresh and utilise the stages we have here that are lying dormant. Wales has had its time and after the rally has been rotated around the rest of the "UK", it'll feel less stale when the rally would perhaps return to the north or south or south of Wales.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

The problem the rest of the UK has is that no other area will commit to funding the event. The Welsh Assembly Government have an agreement in place until at least 2018. There were talks of it going to Yorkshire a few years ago but nothing ever materialised. In my opinion, it could be shaken up by coming further south than Myherin and Sweet Lamb and taking in the classic stages such as Crychan and Halfway again or use the likes of Resolven but if the teams don't want longer days then there is no chance of the above happening without either a remote overnight halt or a move of the service area.
The current set up in North Wales has been good but this instance of teams putting pressure on organisers to reduce mileage to allow more rest time kind of takes the edge off of rallying doesn't it. It just goes to show how much power they have over the organisers.

[AndyRAC]

The event needs a rethink - but is unlikely to get one whilst the MSA/IMS keep going to the highest bidder, i;e the Welsh money. The event hasn't visited 'killer' Kielder since 1995, Yorkshire since 1993.....ignoring other regions of the UK is pretty poor.
The Tour of Britain cycle race is a good example of how to do it; visit different regions/ areas over several years so lots of people get a chance to see the event. And unsurprisingly which sport/ event has a greater pull and mainstream media coverage....

[macebig]

The event needs a rethink - but is unlikely to get one whilst the MSA/IMS keep going to the highest bidder, i;e the Welsh money. The event hasn't visited 'killer' Kielder since 1995, Yorkshire since 1993.....ignoring other regions of the UK is pretty poor.
The Tour of Britain cycle race is a good example of how to do it; visit different regions/ areas over several years so lots of people get a chance to see the event. And unsurprisingly which sport/ event has a greater pull and mainstream media coverage....

Well, cycling has Sky pouring millions into it. Plus 2 of the top cyclists in the world in Froome and Wiggins. The same cannot be said about rally currently. Probably the Boreham Ford/Prodrive Subaru and later Colin and Burns eras are comparable.

[AndyRAC]

Well, cycling has Sky (and HSBC) pouring millions into it. Plus 2 of the top cyclists in the world in Froome and Wiggins. The same cannot be said about rally currently.

They wouldn't pump money in if it wasn't worth it. Rallying in the UK is mainly invisible; the flagship event gets derisory mainstream coverage....

[the sniper]

Well, cycling has Sky pouring millions into it. Plus 2 of the top cyclists in the world in Froome and Wiggins. The same cannot be said about rally currently. Probably the Boreham Ford/Prodrive Subaru and later Colin and Burns eras are comparable.

Off topic, but Sky's brand benefits from its association with cycling, it doesn't really gain anything directly from promoting the sport of cycling itself. Sky doesn't even broadcast cycling, it's almost entirely on Sky and ITV. So yes, Sky are pouring millions into cycling, but they're primarily doing it to promote their own brand rather than promote cycling as a sport to the masses.

Sky wouldn't pour millions into rallying because rallying is a shadow of its former self and is virtually invisible to the masses in the UK nowadays...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Well, cycling has Sky pouring millions into it. Plus 2 of the top cyclists in the world in Froome and Wiggins. The same cannot be said about rally currently. Probably the Boreham Ford/Prodrive Subaru and later Colin and Burns eras are comparable.

Fair point re Sky money & cycling.

But having great UK athletes like Cav, Wiggo & Froome isnt so important and not relevant to rallying.

When I started going to the RAC Rally in the 80's there were no British winners but the crowds were still massive. The rally went all over the country and the public got to know about it coming to or through their area.

The years stuck in S.Wales killed its poplarity.

[AnttiL]

When I started going to the RAC Rally in the 80's there were no British winners

Only Finnish winners 8)

[the sniper]

Another thing that p*ssed me off this week, UK related. Even in F1, the FIA/FOM/MSA are set to let the Silverstone GP run over 4 days, Thursday to Sunday. Yeah, it's only F2 and GP3 practice on the Thursday, but it still shows that even F1 are now more willing to think outside the box and be more flexible than the WRC... What an embarrassment.

[rallyfiend]

Another thing that p*ssed me off this week, UK related. Even in F1, the FIA/FOM/MSA are set to let the Silverstone GP run over 4 days, Thursday to Sunday. Yeah, it's only F2 and GP3 practice on the Thursday, but it still shows that even F1 are now more willing to think outside the box and be more flexible than the WRC... What an embarrassment.

Isn't Rally GB having a stage on Thursday night as well?

[the sniper]

Isn't Rally GB having a stage on Thursday night as well?

It's not confirmed, but as far as I know they're only now looking a doing a short nothing stage in the small town of Towyn, on a facility like and not much larger than, a (motorcycle) Speedway...

In 2013, the last time they managed to run Thursday stages, it was really good. They ran Gwydyr, Penmachno, Clocaenog, a perfect loop given that they seemingly have to have the start in Conwy County and end in Deeside. It was perfectly in character with the event and its history and was at least a nod to what this rally used to be. Sadly it was never to be repeated.

If they can't/won't run forest stages on the Thursday, I'd rather they all headed over from the start to Oulton Park circuit for a stage starting at around 2030hrs. Oulton Park, used in the RAC Rally on and off for many decades (see here the itinerary from 1962, featuring many other familiar stage names too: https://www.ewrc-results.com/timetable/21785-rac-international-rally-of-great-britain-1962/ ) is closer to the service park in Deeside than any of the stages actually used in the rally, yet it's never been used once since they've been based in Deeside. We've had a few micky mouse stages around small country homes 'for the public' in recent years, all of which have seemingly suffered accessibility problems for spectators, yet Oulton Park goes unused. I'd love to know whether there's a good reason for this or whether it's just a symptomatic of the lack of imagination/ambition the organisers have.

For those outside the UK, circuit rallying has been becoming increasingly popular in the UK. The Neil Howard Stage Rally is held in November as the last round of the Motorsport News Circuit Rally Championship at Oulton Park. You can see in this video that even as just a largely unpublicised national rally it get's a decent number of spectators. Imagine how many people would turn up for a Rally GB stage there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcTro5cV7fs & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRExmdp6W4U or onboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q4JOGTYywQ

Sorry for ranting about Rally GB again!

[KiwiWRCfan]

What is the minimum distance for WRC events ? If it is 300km then 2017 Wales Rally GB will require an itinerary tweak, such as a Thursday night SSS. With removal of Sundays Gwydyr 1 stage the total competitive distance reduces to 299.13km.

[Zeakiwi]

FIA 2017 WRC Sporting regulations pdf
13. RALLY CHARACTERISTICS
13.1 RALLY CONFIGURATION
13.1.1 The surfaces of a rally may be mixed but must remain the same between two overnight regroups
(minimum 45’ service). Within a special stage the road surfaces must not be mixed.
However, for the use of limited sections of asphalt on gravel stages, a request for a waiver may be sent to
the FIA.
13.1.2 The total distance of the special stages shall be between 300 km and 500 km.
There shall be no single special stage minimum or maximum distance. However, there shall be no more
than 80 km of special stages between visits to service parks or tyre fitting zones.
- No one stage or part of a stage may be run more than twice in a rally, super special stages excluded.

How many kilometres do events being observed for WRC status have to run? e.g for the Tauranga 'RallyNZ' in November?

[AndyRAC]

299.13km = 186 miles......similar to a F1 Grand Prix distance. Quite ironic really....

[liposh]

299,13 km = approx. 1 145 000 bananas ( more handy and more used measurement than miles) ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New Thursday night stage confirmed for @WalesRallyGB this year as event will now begin in Towyn, County Conwy. https://t.co/DPSdDx8sJN https://t.co/99Jd6SMTwZ

[EstWRC]

New Thursday night stage confirmed for @WalesRallyGB this year as event will now begin in Towyn, County Conwy. https://t.co/DPSdDx8sJN https://t.co/99Jd6SMTwZ

"The 1.1-mile floodlit stage will incorporate parts of Tir Prince’s trotting track and other areas within the park and will also feature a jump and donut."

N.O.T will love this

[Watson]

Meaning doing a donut is going to be part of a competitive stage?

[seb_sh]

Meaning doing a donut is going to be part of a competitive stage?

No, I think they have to eat a donut while driving through the stage. +1s for every 10g of donut left at the end.

[rallyfiend]

Meaning doing a donut is going to be part of a competitive stage?

That happens a lot.

[AndyRAC]

No, I think they have to eat a donut while driving through the stage. +1s for every 10g of donut left at the end.

Do we know whether its a ring donut, or a jam filled donut?? These things are important.... ;)

[Watson]

No, I think they have to eat a donut while driving through the stage. +1s for every 10g of donut left at the end.

This is the C3 WRC of jokes.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is the new Rally GB stage at Tir Prince ... ;)
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/73/43/db/tir-prince-raceway.jpg

Well no, its actually going to use part of the trotting track:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDQDqiVU0AA5R8H.jpg

[MrJan]

“Rallying is an amazing sport, but it can be difficult for people to get to see it, so we are always looking for innovative ways to bring it to new audiences"

When will these clowns realise that they aren't bringing rallying to new audiences, they're bringing a sideshow that features the same cars. A fecking trotting track, FFS!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

“Rallying is an amazing sport, but it can be difficult for people to get to see it, so we are always looking for innovative ways to bring it to new audiences"

When will these clowns realise that they aren't bringing rallying to new audiences, they're bringing a sideshow that features the same cars. A fecking trotting track, FFS!

You've got to introduce the public to rallying somehow. They just arent going to discover it in a forest in the middle of nowhere.

Stages at a safari park, stately home, horserace track and a race circuit were my first experience of seeing rally cars in action... and I'm still a fan 30 years later.

[Watson]

You've got to introduce the public to rallying somehow. They just arent going to discover it in a forest in the middle of nowhere.

Stages at a safari park, stately home, horserace track and a race circuit were my first experience of seeing rally cars in action... and I'm still a fan 30 years later.

I don't want to paint too dark a picture but I think it is difficult to keep motorsport alive into the distant future. I'm a millenial and I literally have one single friend who is a petrol head. Some of them like it when they see a Lambo or a Porsche on the street, but the interest doesn't go much further. The vast majority are not interested whatsoever or even find it a bit silly.

If we are being real that is just the way it is. Oil will get too precious to burn it, cars will get less exciting, motorsport will lose its appeal. Rallying has always been in the shadow of circuit racing (bar the hight of Group B) to a degree and it is now amplified by the zeitgeist we are confronted with.

We are dinosaurs, my dear fellows.

[AndyRAC]

“Rallying is an amazing sport, but it can be difficult for people to get to see it, so we are always looking for innovative ways to bring it to new audiences"


And what is the ironic thing about this? The UK used to have a huge event that did just that; and had massive publicity & media.....

You reap what you sow....

[Simmi]

With the GB situation and the criticism it's tricky because the organisers can only work within the confines of the paltry regulations. So a lot of what people want is unrealistic. That said I think they are playing it overly safe, but as others have mentioned it's not like counties and regions are lining up to host this event.

As a fan I want more stage variety (I've done the current ones multiple times) and as many chances to see the cars in 'competitive' action as possible. That makes it easier to swallow the hefty cost of a world rally pass.

Hopefully we'll get a bit of a revamp next year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wales Rally GB‏ @WalesRallyGB
We have more fantastic news coming tomorrow. We can reveal all very soon. #WRGB #WRC

Hmm.

[MrJan]

Stages at a safari park, stately home, horserace track and a race circuit were my first experience of seeing rally cars in action... and I'm still a fan 30 years later.

I accept that Mickey Mouse stages have been around for years, but at least a ponce around Chatsworth had some roads to it. A trotting track?! And at the end of a day messing around silly stages they headed north and a full rally of proper stages through places like Dalby and Kielder. Those are the stages that grab people.

But Watson is right, we're dinosaurs. Sport is consumed differently these days, gone is the time that you'd sit and watch rallying on Grandstand because there were only 4 channels.

[the sniper]

Stages at a safari park, stately home, horserace track and a race circuit were my first experience of seeing rally cars in action... and I'm still a fan 30 years later.

Any of the above would be better than having them all do a doughnut in an 'amusement park' in the back end of Towyn...

[the sniper]

Folks rather than dominating this thread with Rally GB we might as well get going with a dedicated Rally GB thread. If you don't mind I taken the liberty of starting this year's thread here: http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?37308-Wales-Rally-GB-2017&p=1143978#post1143978

[EstWRC]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/mikkelsen-very-sad-meeke-dropped-by-citroen-for-poland-924434/

Someone has big dreams