[WRC] News & Rumours (part V) 2017

[AMSS]

Drama starts already, according to this Finnish newspaper Toyota has some problems in scrutineering, rear diffusor and spoiler against classification.

http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/Toyotan-osallistuminen-Monte-Carlon-ralliin-vaarassa/912920?pwbi=f75627139bfecedfdc1c99e98cd7cb2e

[rogef]

How is this possible right now?
Had all the components installed in the car not already been inspected and approved by the FIA?

[jparker]

So, are they allowed to fix it? Can they fix it, or this is disqualification for them?

[HarriK]

Drama starts already, according to this Finnish newspaper Toyota has some problems in scrutineering, rear diffusor and spoiler against classification.

http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/Toyotan-osallistuminen-Monte-Carlon-ralliin-vaarassa/912920?pwbi=f75627139bfecedfdc1c99e98cd7cb2e


too wide or what?
what says rules?

[ToughMac]

If they are not allowed start how will this affect the homologation process?

[rp]

How is this possible right now?
Had all the components installed in the car not already been inspected and approved by the FIA?

It should not be possible, because the FIA was visiting Puuppola HQ and inspected all the things...

[jparker]

How is this possible right now?
Had all the components installed in the car not already been inspected and approved by the FIA?

No, they are not. FIA have provided the measurement values, and each car is checked upon each event for compliance. At least that's my understanding.
Based on their history, It will be bad for Toyota if they exceed the allowed measurements.

[itix]

indeed his last 10 posts are quite funny. but time could probably heal.
More than funny. He suddenly appear, express surprise that Ogier is in ford (= have clearly not followed rally news for a while) and then goes to hate on Msport in every single post including hilarious statements that Toyota and Msport are on equal level, something he couldn't possibly know.

[jparker]

More than funny. He suddenly appear, express surprise that Ogier is in ford (= have clearly not followed rally news for a while) and then goes to hate on Msport in every single post including hilarious statements that Toyota and Msport are on equal level, something he couldn't possibly know.

Nooooo. I know Toyota are better. I have my own sources. That's why they are trying tho disqualify them, so Ford are not slammed right from the beginning. How funny is that sounds? :)

[itix]

Nooooo. I know Toyota are better. I have my own sources. That's why they are trying tho disqualify them, so Ford are not slammed right from the beginning. How funny is that sounds? :)

Chill, sit back, relax and enjoy the uncertainty of the new season.

... Also try not to let your personal views get your facts all muddled up.

[Rally Power]

Drama starts already, according to this Finnish newspaper Toyota has some problems in scrutineering, rear diffusor and spoiler against classification.


Most likely there's nothing to worry about. Every time new rules come out some issues can happen during the initial scrutenizings, but they're usually solved up. It seems it's happening with Toyota but it could happen to any other manu, like it did in the past.

[Allez Andruet]

It's all clear, Toyota passed the scrutineering:
http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/Toyota-l%C3%A4p%C3%A4isi-katsastuksen/912920?pwbi=f75627139bfecedfdc1c99e98cd7cb2e

[itix]

It's all clear, Toyota passed the scrutineering:
http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/Toyota-l%C3%A4p%C3%A4isi-katsastuksen/912920?pwbi=f75627139bfecedfdc1c99e98cd7cb2e
It would have created a mega weird situation if FIA would have contradicted themselves. Good that they interpret the rules the same between inspectors in the end (I work in an industry where this really doesn't happen so it isn't as impossible as you'd think).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

One Bet & WRC.... betting company of Ostbergs...

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2017/onebet-announcement/page/4215--12-12-.html

[A FONDO]

Drama starts already, according to this Finnish newspaper Toyota has some problems in scrutineering, rear diffusor and spoiler against classification.

http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/Toyotan-osallistuminen-Monte-Carlon-ralliin-vaarassa/912920?pwbi=f75627139bfecedfdc1c99e98cd7cb2e

What was this fuss about? Don't copy this site again.

[Allez Andruet]

What was this fuss about? Don't copy this site again.

It's actually quite a big Finnish newspaper (located in Central Finland, near TGR WRC HQ).

[rp]

It's actually quite a big Finnish newspaper (located in Central Finland, near TGR WRC HQ).

They have their own man in Rallye Monte Carlo and it has been reliable source!

Of course Jarmo Lehtinen will say that there was nothing :)

[BigWorm]

It's all clear, Toyota passed the scrutineering:
http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/Toyota-l%C3%A4p%C3%A4isi-katsastuksen/912920?pwbi=f75627139bfecedfdc1c99e98cd7cb2e

Sorry, but isn't that page the same that said it's not cleared?

[Googol]

Sorry, but isn't that page the same that said it's not cleared?

Seems so. I wonder if this leads to correct page: http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/Toyota-l%C3%A4p%C3%A4isi-katsastuksen/913014

Jarmo Lehtinen says that cars have been within regulations when they left Finland and that in this scrutineering only safety things are checked. It just took a bit longer like normally in the first rally.

[pantealex]

They (ksml) deleted original story and it´s bit weird that new one is behind exactly same page adress...

FIA members visited TGR last week and everything was OK.

[jparker]

So, somebody decided to spice things up for Toyota? Just to remind them to forget the past? :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New graphics at WRC.com

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2eqwydXAAA7zfT.jpg:large

[AL14]

Interview at Kubica in Montecarlo Service Park

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orYqHsFoRmg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC manufacturers meeting today to discuss allowing VW late homologation for its 2017 car to be used by privateers https://t.co/EXZgD2co5D https://t.co/ZA3JqmZSWz

[Mintexmemory]

WRC manufacturers meeting today to discuss allowing VW late homologation for its 2017 car to be used by privateers https://t.co/EXZgD2co5D https://t.co/ZA3JqmZSWz

If I were in charge of a team, M-Sport especially, the only way I'd agree to a waiver is by some large financial compensation or future development waiver as a quid pro quo. Otherwise forget it. WRC may benefit from VW involvement, VW would benefit from such involvement (particularly if one of the testing drivers gets to be in the private team). All the other teams are in a questionable benefit situation - particularly if Polo 2017 edition performs to the 2013-16 edition standard. So my crystal ball shows a cancelled party in Wolfsburg tonight!!

[dupanton]

If I were in charge of a team, M-Sport especially, the only way I'd agree to a waiver is by some large financial compensation or future development waiver as a quid pro quo. Otherwise forget it. WRC may benefit from VW involvement, VW would benefit from such involvement (particularly if one of the testing drivers gets to be in the private team). All the other teams are in a questionable benefit situation - particularly if Polo 2017 edition performs to the 2013-16 edition standard. So my crystal ball shows a cancelled party in Wolfsburg tonight!!

As Ogier and Latvala drove the VW, they will have a pretty good idea who it compares to their current cars. They might inform their bosses about it and that will certainly influence their position on this case.

[bassist]

Let em in. Can only be good for WRC.

[cali]

Good for WRC, but I cannot imagine how this can be good for other manu teams. Especially when "private" VW's start to beat them on regular basis.

[dimviii]

WRC 2017: Teams fail to agree on private Volkswagen campaign

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127804/teams-fail-to-agree-on-private-vw-programme

[Mintexmemory]

WRC 2017: Teams fail to agree on private Volkswagen campaign

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127804/teams-fail-to-agree-on-private-vw-programme
'Hello Wolfsburg Party Planners? Cancel the booze and hookers for the VW event'

[macebig]

So, Nandan and Matton were against it.Makinen was positive.What about Wilson?

[Simmi]

Can't say I'm surprised at all about the decision. But equally if it was just a short meeting there's no way that could be sorted out within that time. What VW have in their favour is the influence of WRC/FIA behind wanting to make it happen.

But if you're a guy like Nandan - sitting there knowing that Polo is as good if not better than your car - what is the incentive for him to agree to it? You can't even technically boast and say you've beaten a factory VW because in theory it isn't anymore.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm sure we'd all like to see the Polo and Mikkelsen in the WRC, but it has to be fair.

[er88]

I'd like to see the Polo in the WRC and Andreas deserves a drive like that. I know he's gone now, but remember Capito's moaning about Meeke and Citroen doing selected events and how it was so unfair, bad for the WRC and so on? Well this would be worse than that, considering Citreon had agreed to commit to the wrc for the long term and were using a car that had already been homologated for years (plus homologated when Citroen were in the WRC). There will have to be some very big compromises for this VW entry to be allowed but from my pov, the more 2017 wrc cars the better....

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[dimviii]

I'd like to see the Polo in the WRC and Andreas deserves a drive like that. I know he's gone now, but remember Capito's moaning about Meeke and Citroen doing selected events and how it was so unfair, bad for the WRC and so on? Well this would be worse than that, considering Citreon had agreed to commit to the wrc for the long term and were using a car that had already been homologated for years (plus homologated when Citroen were in the WRC). There will have to be some very big compromises for this VW entry to be allowed but from my pov, the more 2017 wrc cars the better....

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

very well said. Tottaly different cases.

[MrJan]

:D :D :D http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38684048

Talk about flogging a dead horse, I really can't understand why she doesn't put the money into entering UK events instead

[Arwel Davies]

:D :D :D http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38684048

Talk about flogging a dead horse, I really can't understand why she doesn't put the money into entering UK events instead

Because she would probably have her ass handed to her on National Rallies too and couldnt come up with some sort of excuse as to why.

In all seriousness all I know of her is that she is constantly trying to get money to compete. Has she even done a rally recently?

[Sulland]

Maybe Mikkelsens management will swap focus for a 16 Polo to keep the focus and form going for the 18 season.
Too early to go for RallyCross!

[itix]

:D :D :D http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38684048

Talk about flogging a dead horse, I really can't understand why she doesn't put the money into entering UK events instead
I'm following her in FB.

She certainly has an interest for the sport, that's for sure and if she can manage to get funding to drive without actually winning anything, I'm not going to complain.

Continously selling her trophies and crowd funding her drives is a bit pathetic though in my eyes. Focus on finding good funding and drive in lower classes instead. The sport is equally fun if it is national or international events and unless she is utterly delusional, it should be clear to her that she won't win anything...

[bowler]

She has it in her blood. All power to her passion. Good luck to her efforts.

[jparker]

Well, if I understand correctly, if VW didn't withdraw from WRC, Ogier and Mikkelsen would have been here right now.
So, what's unfair?
It looks like Nandan and Matton are trying to cash out on the back of others misfortune.
Also, Makinen has the same reasons to fear VW return, but he doesn't.
It's all about attitude. Are you in WRC to win, no matter the competition, or you are there to scavenge as much as you can, the same way MW is doing for years.

[AndyRAC]

:D :D :D http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38684048

Talk about flogging a dead horse, I really can't understand why she doesn't put the money into entering UK events instead


It's difficult enough for talented young motorsport drivers in the UK to get sponsorship - and we have people like her who have done virtually nothing trying to raise ££££.

[Eric]

What good has Matton done for citroen? Not much.. I know its the first rally, I know its Monte Carlo, but he hasn't been very successful in this job. Jost Capito is on the market, he did an amazing job with VW. If Citroen doesn't succeed this season I can't see why they shouldn't have a little chat with Capito and see if he is interested.. If so, I'm not surprised if we see Mikkelsen and/or Ogier with citroen in 2018.
Maybe I'm dreaming, but that would have been something!

[itix]

What good has Matton done for citroen? Not much.. I know its the first rally, I know its Monte Carlo, but he hasn't been very successful in this job. Jost Capito is on the market, he did an amazing job with VW. If Citroen doesn't succeed this season I can't see why they shouldn't have a little chat with Capito and see if he is interested.. If so, I'm not surprised if we see Mikkelsen and/or Ogier with citroen in 2018.
Maybe I'm dreaming, but that would have been something!
I think you're dreaming. Matton has been at Citroen for years and one small "slip up" of hiring Lefebvre (which he probably was pushed into from above since they most likely wanted French blood in the team) while VW still was on the cards for 2017 is not going to compromise his position.

We all would have hired Breen after Finland last year and we all would have hired Meeke at the end of 2015... and Breen was still the right choice. I really hope Meeke makes a serious effort to turn around his inability to stay on the road when things really matter soon. He has the speed, that we all know.

[Eric]

I think you're dreaming. Matton has been at Citroen for years and one small "slip up" of hiring Lefebvre (which he probably was pushed into from above since they most likely wanted French blood in the team) while VW still was on the cards for 2017 is not going to compromise his position.

We all would have hired Breen after Finland last year and we all would have hired Meeke at the end of 2015... and Breen was still the right choice. I really hope Meeke makes a serious effort to turn around his inability to stay on the road when things really matter soon. He has the speed, that we all know.

Im not talking about "one small slip up". Im talking about the fact that Citroen haven't won much these last couple of years. If 2017 becomes yet another year with little to celebrate, I can't see how they can continue on without any changes in the team.

[Rally Power]

WRC 2017: Teams fail to agree on private Volkswagen campaign

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127804/teams-fail-to-agree-on-private-vw-programme

Just noticed that VW’s private entry was already discussed. Apparently, some team managers are against it, and so are most of you. Honestly, these shouldn’t be a matter for partisanship and FIA must take WRC greater interest into consideration.

People say it doesn’t comply WRC rules, but there are already some strange rules (or exceptions?) around: private drivers, like Ostberg, Prokop or Bertelli are allowed to run ’17 Fiestas as long as they figure as false MSport drivers (the same can happen in any other team); last year Citroen run a short programme through their private partner, PH Sport, and during 2011 Mini official team was allowed to enter only 6 events. Many other examples can be mentioned.

Despite being conform to homologation tech regs, the new Polo doesn’t cope with over demanding WRC administrative system. That’s enough for VW opponents to consider it’s not fair to allow Mikkelsen, or any other driver, to use the car on a short WRC programme, even under a private entry…meanwhile, easy going WRX will get a new team, backed up by VW Motorsport, racing a ’17 WRC Polo derivate.

Yep, Motorsport it’s a big happy family but WRC is always in competition with WRX, WTCC, WEC or even F1 about getting manus resources; after all, its manus money that keep the wheels turning. Besides, even if WRC is now living a fantastic era, with 3 top brands (plus Ford, timidly supporting MSport) involved, the past already showed that any of them can suddenly pull out.

It’s true that nobody forced VW to go away, but if there’s a real interest in VW Motorsport staff (and probably even on some VW board members, not totally happy with November’s move) to rally the new Polo, FIA WRC officials should take it, no matter what other teams think. More, if WRC was managed in a pro active way, they should take the opportunity to do some lobbying on VW’s Group for a full WRC return in ’18, with any of their brands.

[macebig]

I think you're dreaming. Matton has been at Citroen for years and one small "slip up" of hiring Lefebvre (which he probably was pushed into from above since they most likely wanted French blood in the team) while VW still was on the cards for 2017 is not going to compromise his position.

We all would have hired Breen after Finland last year and we all would have hired Meeke at the end of 2015... and Breen was still the right choice. I really hope Meeke makes a serious effort to turn around his inability to stay on the road when things really matter soon. He has the speed, that we all know.

Supporting Ogier instead of Loeb was enough for Quesnel to be shown the door.And he had won 4x WDC, 3x WCC plus Le Mans with Peugeot.

[EightGear]

Im not talking about "one small slip up". Im talking about the fact that Citroen haven't won much these last couple of years.

Citroen dominated WTCC when their focus was away from WRC. Matton was responsible for this as well.

[cali]

Just noticed that VW’s private entry was already discussed. Apparently, some team managers are against it, and so are most of you. Honestly, these shouldn’t be a matter for partisanship and FIA must take WRC greater interest into consideration.

People say it doesn’t comply WRC rules, but there are already some strange rules (or exceptions?) around: private drivers, like Ostberg, Prokop or Bertelli are allowed to run ’17 Fiestas as long as they figure as false MSport drivers (the same can happen in any other team); last year Citroen run a short programme through their private partner, PH Sport, and during 2011 Mini official team was allowed to enter only 6 events. Many other examples can be mentioned.

Despite being conform to homologation tech regs, the new Polo doesn’t cope with over demanding WRC administrative system. That’s enough for VW opponents to consider it’s not fair to allow Mikkelsen, or any other driver, to use the car on a short WRC programme, even under a private entry…meanwhile, easy going WRX will get a new team, backed up by VW Motorsport, racing a ’17 WRC Polo derivate.

Yep, Motorsport it’s a big happy family but WRC is always in competition with WRX, WTCC, WEC or even F1 about getting manus resources; after all, its manus money that keep the wheels turning. Besides, even if WRC is now living a fantastic era, with 3 top brands (plus Ford, timidly supporting MSport) involved, the past already showed that any of them can suddenly pull out.

It’s true that nobody forced VW to go away, but if there’s a real interest in VW Motorsport staff (and probably even on some VW board members, not totally happy with November’s move) to rally the new Polo, FIA WRC officials should take it, no matter what other teams think. More, if WRC was managed in a pro active way, they should take the opportunity to do some lobbying on VW’s Group for a full WRC return in ’18, with any of their brands.
I'm not against VW participating, quite the contrary but if I was a team manager, I would not see a point to let them in unless they commit the same way as the rest of the teams.

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[Eric]

Citroen dominated WTCC when their focus was away from WRC. Matton was responsible for this as well.

WTCC..? Im talking about WRC. And in WRC Citroen haven't been successful for a long time. Really hoping this will be their year, but if not, I hope there will be some changes. Citroen should have at least one car in the top 3-4 in every rally.

[EightGear]

WTCC..? Im talking about WRC. And in WRC Citroen haven't been successful for a long time. Really hoping this will be their year, but if not, I hope there will be some changes. Citroen should have at least one car in the top 3-4 in every rally.
I know but it's relevant for the point you are making about Matton.

I think saying he should be replaced already if things don't improve after only 1 rally is a bit strange when he won everything with Citroen in their main motorsports programme for the last few years.

[Mintexmemory]

It's difficult enough for talented young motorsport drivers in the UK to get sponsorship - and we have people like her who have done virtually nothing trying to raise ££££.

"100 Women names 100 influential and inspirational women around the world every year."....and Louise Cook!

Seriously, she has some kind of psychological issue - the PR misrepresentation of her as 'the only woman to win a major rallying trophy' (Michelle Mouton she aint, and never will be); the continuing to 'Sunday drive' at the back of the fields she does turn up for and the apparent failure to understand that she is just not up to the standard for WRC course competing. The UK does not need a rallying 'Eddie the Eagle'

[macebig]

I think her old ST Trophy Fiesta is out of homologation.What car is she trying to race?

[AL14]

Why Citroen should fire a man who has won so much with them, after one rally? At least let's see how the season go!

I think this forum lately is too much result oriented.
If a driver has a good stage, he becomes the new Loeb, if another (or the same!!) makes a mistake it's a waste of space.

Please guys let's try to analyze facts in a more deep way (is "deep" the right word?), let's try to know and understand a little bit the context before coming to a conclusion.
Me too I should do it more, I bashed against wrc.com website for their new interface but it was actually ok.
We are not obliged to give conclusion every time. I'm sure we will all benefit from it.

[jparker]

I'm not against VW participating, quite the contrary but if I was a team manager, I would not see a point to let them in unless they commit the same way as the rest of the teams.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

OK, I understand and agree with that, but this should be one of the conditions for return. From what I heard, they are not considering VW return no matter what. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Duvel]

[QUOTE=AL14;1123172]Why Citroen should fire a man who has won so much with them, after one rally? At least let's see how the season go!

I think this forum lately is too much result oriented.
If a driver has a good stage, he becomes the new Loeb, if another (or the same!!) makes a mistake it's a waste of space.

Like Evans on the Monte last weekend, or the D-macks. Friday they were rubbish, Saturday the revelation of the rally...

And what if Meeke wins in Sweden.

[stefanvv]

First result after MC rally in 2016 vs 2017 wrc cars - 0.6 secs/km faster for 2017 cars.

[cali]

First result after MC rally in 2016 vs 2017 wrc cars - 0.6 secs/km faster for 2017 cars.
How do you compare the times?

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[stefanvv]

How do you compare the times?

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Ogier & Breen results.

[seb_sh]

I think this forum lately is too much result oriented.
If a driver has a good stage, he becomes the new Loeb, if another (or the same!!) makes a mistake it's a waste of space.

Please guys let's try to analyze facts in a more deep way (is "deep" the right word?), let's try to know and understand a little bit the context before coming to a conclusion.
Me too I should do it more, I bashed against wrc.com website for their new interface but it was actually ok.
We are not obliged to give conclusion every time. I'm sure we will all benefit from it.

I think two things are in effect here lately:
1. Lots of waiting + hype for the new cars + speculation based on testing + personal bias = many people having certain bias or expectations (perfectly normal) but are jumping on any sign that they are right and blowing it out of proportion.
2. Since it's the start of the season and the highest profile rally in mainstream media we get a lot of new members or inactive members waking up and posting some superficial stuff due to excitement or lack of information.

The combination of these two things leads to a lot of "noise" in the forum. In a way it's good because it means people are excited and interested but the downside as you say, is that it drowns out the deeper analysis or conversations. It was most obvious in the Monte thread where almost at each stage drivers were going from hero to zero and back again.

[stefanvv]

I think two things are in effect here lately:
1. Lots of waiting + hype for the new cars + speculation based on testing + personal bias = many people having certain bias or expectations (perfectly normal) but are jumping on any sign that they are right and blowing it out of proportion.
2. Since it's the start of the season and the highest profile rally in mainstream media we get a lot of new members or inactive members waking up and posting some superficial stuff due to excitement or lack of information.

The combination of these two things leads to a lot of "noise" in the forum. In a way it's good because it means people are excited and interested but the downside as you say, is that it drowns out the deeper analysis or conversations. It was most obvious in the Monte thread where almost at each stage drivers were going from hero to zero and back again.

You're right. I personally don't care much of someone's opinion of some driver to the point where are personal insults. We should keep the good language in discussions.

[BigWorm]

Ogier & Breen results.

Not surprised that it's under 1s/km for this rally. But for the rest of the season it will probably be above that.

[A FONDO]

Not surprised that it's under 1s/km for this rally. But for the rest of the season it will probably be above that.

Of course it will be above that, if the only remaining '16 car is Serderidis, it may go to 1 minute/km.

[smsgrafica]

Comparing 2 different calibre of drivers driving 2 generations of cars on such a tricky rally is not very useful. Let's wait for Mexico and compare 2016 & 2017 times, if the conditions will roughly be the same.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

IMO on the Monte the analysis of every stage and every driver, every team and every car, every tyre choice and every little incident was getting just too much.

This is just a sport. Its meant to be fun and exciting. I enjoy watching rally cars being driven fast... the noise they make and admiring the skill of the drivers. This is why I got into rallying... not to analyse it to death.

[stefanvv]

Comparing 2 different calibre of drivers driving 2 generations of cars on such a tricky rally is not very useful. Let's wait for Mexico and compare 2016 & 2017 times, if the conditions will roughly be the same.

It's just for fun, nothing 100% of course, and how it could be. But anyway You can always say Ogier lost 40 seconds in a ditch with kind of might equalize their times.

[N.O.T]

IMO on the Monte the analysis of every stage and every driver, every team and every car, every tyre choice and every little incident was getting just too much.

This is just a sport. Its meant to be fun and exciting. I enjoy watching rally cars being driven fast... the noise they make and admiring the skill of the drivers. This is why I got into rallying... not to analyse it to death.

Thank god there are people who analyse things to death and the world evolved in every aspect.

On the other hand its good that basic simple folk stay in shallow waters, but to praise incompetence is insulting to the human race.

[BigWorm]

Of course it will be above that, if the only remaining '16 car is Serderidis, it may go to 1 minute/km.

He makes Prokop look faster than the speed of light.

[SlyFox]

Goodnight Guys, new to Forum. I'm from Barbados if you know where that is.. lol On the Rally Topic, do any of you believe that Seb was handed the win in Monte due to the fact that Neuville had problems?

[N.O.T]

Goodnight Guys, new to Forum. I'm from Barbados if you know where that is.. lol On the Rally Topic, do any of you believe that Seb was handed the win in Monte due to the fact that Neuville had problems?

what problems Neuville had ?

[markpcym]

Goodnight Guys, new to Forum. I'm from Barbados if you know where that is.. lol On the Rally Topic, do any of you believe that Seb was handed the win in Monte due to the fact that Neuville had problems?
Ogier wasn't handed the win at all, at the end of the day he was the one who had the quickest time card over all of the rally and he won, you got to be there at the end to win,neuville wasn't...

[pantealex]

I think her old ST Trophy Fiesta is out of homologation.What car is she trying to race?

She had Fiesta R2 at Neste Rally Finland 2016 and is in Rally Sweden entry list with R2.

[seb_sh]

Goodnight Guys, new to Forum. I'm from Barbados if you know where that is.. lol On the Rally Topic, do any of you believe that Seb was handed the win in Monte due to the fact that Neuville had problems?

Hi and welcome to the forum. It depends what you mean by "handed". Yes he was 2nd when Neuville crashed but Neuville crashed by his own fault. On of the challenges of rallying is getting to the end; so I wouldn't say Ogier was handed anything. He simply had the best pace and finished the rally in the shortest time.

[AL14]

IMO on the Monte the analysis of every stage and every driver, every team and every car, every tyre choice and every little incident was getting just too much.

This is just a sport. Its meant to be fun and exciting. I enjoy watching rally cars being driven fast... the noise they make and admiring the skill of the drivers. This is why I got into rallying... not to analyse it to death.

I think instead that the analysis is not a problem. On the contrary I really love to analyse everything that I'm interested in.
The problem is how it's done. Overanalysis is bad (I think you're referring to this maybe), as is bad to give conclusion without analysing enough. Imo.

Let's hope Sweden will be less schizophrenic.

[AL14]

Goodnight Guys, new to Forum. I'm from Barbados if you know where that is.. lol On the Rally Topic, do any of you believe that Seb was handed the win in Monte due to the fact that Neuville had problems?

Of course we know where is Barbados! Or at least me :D
BTW, I don't believe the victory was handed. Neuville made a mistake, Ogier don't. Maybe Ogier has been a bit lucky to escape some little mistake he made but that's rally and it doesn't mean his victory was handed.

[GravelBen]

Ogier wasn't handed the win at all, at the end of the day he was the one who had the quickest time card over all of the rally and he won, you got to be there at the end to win,neuville wasn't...

I do remember a few people on this forum saying Mikkelsen was handed his first win by Ogier crashing out, if they're consistent they would say the same about this one.

I agree with you though, they'd be wrong on both counts. A win is a win and as someone once said - to finish first, first you have to finish.

[GravelBen]

Neuville made a mistake, Ogier don't. Maybe Ogier has been a bit lucky to escape some little mistake he made but that's rally and it doesn't mean his victory was handed.

I think Ogier was lucky to get away so light with his few mistakes (Neuville's damaging mistake was smaller than Ogier's but with much worse consequence), but luck is part of rallying too and you have to accept it.

I think the only driver I didn't see* any mistakes from was Tanak, and his car had a 'mistake' instead!

*He might have made mistakes too that I didn't see...

[SlyFox]

what problems Neuville had ? Didn't he not damage his suspension and as a result have a flat tire?

[N.O.T]

Didn't he not damage his suspension and as a result have a flat tire?

what problem did he have and damaged his suspension ?

[Franky]

Guys, I think you're in the wrong thread with all the Monte Carlo talk.

[Rallyper]

Latvala had problems with Ogier in VW-team. Ogier didn´t share his experiences/settings to Latvala.

No team spirit that is. (My personal comment) From MTV Sports.fi

[Mintexmemory]

I do remember a few people on this forum saying Mikkelsen was handed his first win by Ogier crashing out, if they're consistent they would say the same about this one.

I agree with you though, they'd be wrong on both counts. A win is a win and as someone once said - to finish first, first you have to finish.

But to be a champion you must, on occasion, beat the best of the rest fair and square across the range. I see the 2 incidents you're comparing as essentially different. In Spain Mikkelsen was nowhere in contention for 1st and entered that last stage fully hoping just to hold onto 2nd place. The only win that is less valued in recent times was Ostberg's when Hirvonen was disqualified. In France Neuville would have been aware that he had less than a minute in hand over a driver who preserves his tyres, knows the roads and was getting quicker as the rally progressed. Under that pressure he got it wrong, as opposed to being so far ahead and losing concentration. There is an optimum level of driving effort, slip off it too soon and mistakes happen, I think Neuville didn't want that to happen but didn't follow the pace note well enough.
Generally the 'Ogier luck' issue follows the 'Loeb luck' previous edition. The notes quality, the position the car takes on the road and the ability to respond effectively to any error means problems either dont translate to punctures / suspension damage or the avoiding actions are planned for in any case. A famous golfer once said 'The harder I practice the luckier I seem to get'.

[Andre Oliveira]

Latvala had problems with Ogier in VW-team. Ogier didn´t share his experiences/settings to Latvala.

No team spirit that is. (My personal comment) From MTV Sports.fi

Latvala reply: @rallyparadise Never said it was a problem! Don't change my words. I said that it was another way of working of what I was used to before.

[Rallyper]

Latvala reply: @rallyparadise Never said it was a problem! Don't change my words. I said that it was another way of working of what I was used to before.

Yeah, saw that afterwords. Was alternative fact, first published. :)

However no smoke without fire.

[AL14]

I had read somewhere that all VW drivers shared their data instead. What Latvala meant to say at the end?

[EstWRC]

T.Neuville: "Seb will be catchy this year"

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-sport.fr%2Ft-neuville-seb-sera-prenable-cette-annee%2F&edit-text=


"This will be the man to beat this year as usual. But with the Fiesta WRC, it will be possible, the car will surely not allow him to achieve the exploits he has accumulated the past seasons even if he keeps his qualities as a driver. The Fiesta will be less efficient, it will evolve less than a factory car. It will be harder for him. "

[Mintexmemory]

Given the difference in style between them, Ogier's data given to Latvala would have been as effective as giving a fish a bicycle!
Monte showed a new JML approach, I think. In a year when the top guys may cause each over to go over-limit and cars may fail then being the consistent tortoise may pay off (as long as it doesn't become a snail!)

[Mintexmemory]

T.Neuville: "Seb will be catchy this year"

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-sport.fr%2Ft-neuville-seb-sera-prenable-cette-annee%2F&edit-text=


"This will be the man to beat this year as usual. But with the Fiesta WRC, it will be possible, the car will surely not allow him to achieve the exploits he has accumulated the past seasons even if he keeps his qualities as a driver. The Fiesta will be less efficient, it will evolve less than a factory car. It will be harder for him. "

Just keep telling yourself that, Thierry. Who knows, you may end up believing it!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Monte was the other driver's best chance to beat Ogier (late seat swap, new team, new car, little testing)... but he STILL won.

This doesn't bode well for when he has fully settled-in... ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Neuville the dreamer

[Jasper]

Monte was the other driver's best chance to beat Ogier (late seat swap, new team, new car, little testing)... but he STILL won.

This doesn't bode well for when he has fully settled-in... ;)

Everybody (exept breen) was in a new car no?
Don't exaggarate please. It's Ogier, he settles in quit quick (remember the first rally's with the VW, first drive in Peugeot 207 S2000 => victory, first drive in DS3 WRC => victory).
We will see.

[Duvel]

Just keep telling yourself that, Thierry. Who knows, you may end up believing it!

Still i think Thierry will be a real contender for victory on nearly every rally this year. Although he made a (what i read little) mistake in the Monte, i got the feeling he was very confortable in the car up to that point, and fast! Also his powerstage win says something.

[jparker]

Still i think Thierry will be a real contender for victory on nearly every rally this year. Although he made a (what i read little) mistake in the Monte, i got the feeling he was very confortable in the car up to that point, and fast! Also his powerstage win says something.

I agree with this, except for the powerstage. It doesn't say much because Ogier was nursing the win.
But yes, if we don't take into account Ogier's off, up until Thierry's mistake, they both had almost the same times.
Yes, another title for Ogier is possible, but he must deploy all of his skills and work a lot harder to get it. Ford surprised me (I have to admit), but still think Huyndai have a better car for 2017.

[EightGear]

Still i think Thierry will be a real contender for victory on nearly every rally this year. Although he made a (what i read little) mistake in the Monte, i got the feeling he was very confortable in the car up to that point, and fast! Also his powerstage win says something.

I tend to agree except for the Power Stage, because that meant nothing with the changing conditions.

[wia5958]

Everybody (exept breen) was in a new car no?
Don't exaggarate please. It's Ogier, he settles in quit quick (remember the first rally's with the VW, first drive in Peugeot 207 S2000 => victory, first drive in DS3 WRC => victory).
We will see.

He didn have a victory in his first event in the ds3

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Everybody (exept breen) was in a new car no?
Don't exaggarate please. It's Ogier, he settles in quit quick (remember the first rally's with the VW, first drive in Peugeot 207 S2000 => victory, first drive in DS3 WRC => victory).
We will see.

New car, yes, new car !!

All had new WRC cars but had thoroughly tested in them... but not Mr Ogier !

He had been testing the 2017 Polo for the last year... not the Fiesta !

[Andre Oliveira]

Jari-Matti Latvala denies falling out with Sebastien Ogier at VW


Jari-Matti Latvala has denied reports of disharmony with Sebastien Ogier in the Volkswagen World Rally Championship team last season.

Latvala was reportedly critical of both the German manufacturer and Ogier over their time together, but the Finn says he was misquoted.

"These words were not mine," Latvala told Autosport. "I didn't say Seb refused to talk after tests. The words were a bad translation.

"I was really upset about this, it's not my style to talk about a team and a driver in this way and I would like to apologise to both Seb and the team for any upset caused.

"But they know me well enough to know this isn't me."

Last week's Monte Carlo Rally runner-up was talking about life at Volkswagen alongside Ogier and how different it was to his experience with Mikko Hirvonen at Ford.

Jari-Matti Latvala Toyota WRC 2017

"When I was at Ford," Latvala explained, "Sebastien Loeb was so dominant.

"Mikko and I had to work together to try to beat him, we couldn't do it on our own.

"When I went to Volkswagen, it was different. There was nobody there to help me try to beat this new Sebastien.

"When you are in the same team as a four-time world champion, you are alone and I had to fight against him in a different way with a different philosophy.

"This was what I was saying."

Latvala admitted the way of working at Toyota was more reminiscent of Ford, adding: "Now I am back working with Juho [Hanninen] and the two of us are working to try to beat Ogier. It's more like Ford again."

[Rally Power]

First result after MC rally in 2016 vs 2017 wrc cars - 0.6 secs/km faster for 2017 cars.

Yep, 0.64s/km was the actual final difference, but it doesn’t seem to be a very accurate number. For instance: it takes the 43s that Ogier spent on SS3 ditch. Without that time the difference immediately rise to 0.76. Some interesting data came from the dry SS13, 14 and 15. In those, Breen lost 0.72 (to Evans), 0.85 (Sordo) and 0.7 (Lefebvre), at a time he was trying to keep 4th place. Even considering eventual slightly different tyre choices, these are probably the more reliable numbers on the current time difference between ’16 and ’17 cars. Btw, at the end of all those stages Breen comment was always the same: ‘the most the stage is dry, the harder is to keep new cars pace’.

[steve.mandzij]

Jari-Matti Latvala denies falling out with Sebastien Ogier at VW


Jari-Matti Latvala has denied reports of disharmony with Sebastien Ogier in the Volkswagen World Rally Championship team last season.

Latvala was reportedly critical of both the German manufacturer and Ogier over their time together, but the Finn says he was misquoted.

"These words were not mine," Latvala told Autosport. "I didn't say Seb refused to talk after tests. The words were a bad translation.

"I was really upset about this, it's not my style to talk about a team and a driver in this way and I would like to apologise to both Seb and the team for any upset caused.

"But they know me well enough to know this isn't me."

Last week's Monte Carlo Rally runner-up was talking about life at Volkswagen alongside Ogier and how different it was to his experience with Mikko Hirvonen at Ford.

Jari-Matti Latvala Toyota WRC 2017

"When I was at Ford," Latvala explained, "Sebastien Loeb was so dominant.

"Mikko and I had to work together to try to beat him, we couldn't do it on our own.

"When I went to Volkswagen, it was different. There was nobody there to help me try to beat this new Sebastien.

"When you are in the same team as a four-time world champion, you are alone and I had to fight against him in a different way with a different philosophy.

"This was what I was saying."

Latvala admitted the way of working at Toyota was more reminiscent of Ford, adding: "Now I am back working with Juho [Hanninen] and the two of us are working to try to beat Ogier. It's more like Ford again."
Hoping there's Finnish chemistry to back him up like with Mikko :)

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[stefanvv]

Yep, 0.64s/km was the actual final difference, but it doesn’t seem to be a very accurate number. For instance: it takes the 43s that Ogier spent on SS3 ditch. Without that time the difference immediately rise to 0.76. Some interesting data came from the dry SS13, 14 and 15. In those, Breen lost 0.72 (to Evans), 0.85 (Sordo) and 0.7 (Lefebvre), at a time he was trying to keep 4th place. Even considering eventual slightly different tyre choices, these are probably the more reliable numbers on the current time difference between ’16 and ’17 cars. Btw, at the end of all those stages Breen comment was always the same: ‘the most the stage is dry, the harder is to keep new cars pace’.

You exaggerate, it is even less than 0.6 s/km, but rounded is closer to 0.6 than 0.59. Anyway don't take Ogier's loss and Evans performance very seriously, Breen is nowhere near their experience in WRC.

[Rally Power]

You can look at ewrc results page to see I'm not exagerating. Probaly you forgot to take off SS1 and SS16 kms, both cancelled, in your calculations.
http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=35143&t=Rallye-Automobile-de-Monte-Carlo-2017
And if we take off the 43s Ogier lost on SS3, the difference rise to 0.76, much closer to reality.

[dimviii]

You can look at ewrc results page to see I'm not exagerating. Probaly you forgot to take off SS1 and SS16 kms, both cancelled, in your calculations.
http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=35143&t=Rallye-Automobile-de-Monte-Carlo-2017
And if we take off the 43s Ogier lost on SS3, the difference rise to 0.76, much closer to reality.

your mistake is that you compare faster 2017 wrc driver with Breen.
Breen is not the fastest driver with 2016 car you can have.
So you cant have a ''worthy'' number sec/km
We have to wait for next rallies.

[Rally Power]

your mistake is that you compare faster 2017 wrc driver with Breen.
Breen is not the fastest driver with 2016 car you can have.
So you cant have a ''worthy'' number sec/km
We have to wait for next rallies.

You’re obviously not paying attention and I’m not mistaken: someone else posted the overall difference between Ogier and Breen. I’ve said that difference it’s not accurate because it takes the 43s Ogier lost in SS3. Besides, I’ve mentioned that the most reliable differences between '16 and '17 cars on this rally come from dry SS13, 14 and 15, were Breen lost time to Evans, Sordo and Lefebvre, at a time he was trying to save 4th place.

[Archie Gillaine]

Wait until the end of the season to make a valid comparison; 1 event, and such a specialised one as the Monte is unwise, and pretty inaccurate.

[stefanvv]

You’re obviously not paying attention and I’m not mistaken: someone else posted the overall difference between Ogier and Breen. I’ve said that difference it’s not accurate because it takes the 43s Ogier lost in SS3. Besides, I’ve mentioned that the most reliable differences between '16 and '17 cars on this rally come from dry SS13, 14 and 15, were Breen lost time to Evans, Sordo and Lefebvre, at a time he was trying to save 4th place.

Yeah I did posted this comparison. But wasn't me speculating before season start for insane differences like 1.5 - 2 seconds per km. Come back to earth for awhile.

[Rally Power]

Wait until the end of the season to make a valid comparison; 1 event, and such a specialised one as the Monte is unwise, and pretty inaccurate.

Jesus, no one’s saying that the difference won't change during season. Obviously it'll, eventually attending much bigger numbers on last season rallys. But that shouldn't unable anyone to get a first indication already from MC.
Honestly, this "MC doesn't mean anything" and "we've got to wait for Mexico" are crappy sound bytes. All events counts and they’ll be take into consideration for the season evolution. Otherwise, teams should be testing and developing their cars until April or May and only then WRC season should be initiated...

PS: stefan, I've mentioned the difference would be 1s at the start of the season, getting close to 2s at the end. There's still plenty of time to see if I was right and I'll be the first one to admit if I wasn't. Still, the acurate figure on this MC seems to be much more closer to 0.75 than the 0.6 you've mentioned. Now let's talk about anything else before everybody switches to tennis...

[itix]

Goodnight Guys, new to Forum. I'm from Barbados if you know where that is.. lol On the Rally Topic, do any of you believe that Seb was handed the win in Monte due to the fact that Neuville had problems?

Welcome to the forum! :)


Didn't he not damage his suspension and as a result have a flat tire?

No man. He went sideways into a concrete block and he severed the ball joint on what i believe was the toe adjustment arm (don't quote me on that though... kinda hard to see on video).

[Grundo Farb]

Jesus, no one’s saying that the difference won't change during season. Obviously it'll, eventually attending much bigger numbers on last season rallys. But that shouldn't unable anyone to get a first indication already from MC.
Honestly, this "MC doesn't mean anything" and "we've got to wait for Mexico" are crappy sound bytes. All events counts and they’ll be take into consideration for the season evolution. Otherwise, teams should be testing and developing their cars until April or May and only then WRC season should be initiated...

PS: stefan, I've mentioned the difference would be 1s at the start of the season, getting close to 2s at the end. There's still plenty of time to see if I was right and I'll be the first one to admit if I wasn't. Still, the acurate figure on this MC seems to be much more closer to 0.75 than the 0.6 you've mentioned. Now let's talk about anything else before everybody switches to tennis...

I think we need to wait until the start of next season before we can make any comparisons about this season. Or maybe until WRC 7 comes out on PS4/XBox, then we can have the real indication of the speed difference.

[SubaruNorway]

Welcome to the forum! :)



No man. He went sideways into a concrete block and he severed the ball joint on what i believe was the toe adjustment arm (don't quote me on that though... kinda hard to see on video).

Split the rim as well

[smsgrafica]

Everybody (exept breen) was in a new car no?
Don't exaggarate please. It's Ogier, he settles in quit quick
Every driver, including Breen, has tested the 2017 cars for the best part of last year.

The only difference is that Latvala & Ogier had to change teams and had therefore much less time testing their NEW CARS. Especially Ogier, since he only did 5 days, 1 short on gravel, 2 on snow and 2 on asphalt in Monte conditions.

Latvala on the other hand could test way more, because Toyota didn't have any testing limitations.

All this means that Ogier had the least experience in his 2017 car of all the drivers. ;)

[Barreis]

bad driver lineup
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127881
or
Citroen's fully-fledged factory World Rally Championship return got off to a bad start in Monte Carlo. A one-off or a sign of a tough 2017 to come, asks DAVID EVANS

A straight, a kink and a couple of bumps near Gap helped write a story Citroen fans probably won't want to read.

Question is: was last week's Monte Carlo Rally just a dull - to the point of unreadable - opening chapter? Or is Versailles' latest block-buster doomed?

There's no doubting the fear Citroen's return had struck into the heart of its rivals. Lead driver Kris Meeke, a winner of just three WRC rallies, was installed alongside Sebastien Ogier, a man who's won four titles and 39 rallies, as joint favourite for this year's crown at 2/1.

And then last week happened; both factory C3 WRCs hit trouble (as well as a bank for Meeke and a ditch for team-mate Stephane Lefebvre) and both were outpaced by a Citroen launched in 2011 from parts still bearing a strong resemblance to a motor that made its debut a decade before that.

Craig Breen drove a stellar rally, but the Irishman's classification as Citroen's top points scorer in a tired and tatty DS 3 WRC was not part of the plan.

Certainly, it wasn't what PSA Peugeot Citroen CEO Carlos Tavares and Citroen CEO Linda Jackson jetted in for.

History had provided plenty of cause for optimism. The Xsara WRC's first run on the Monte ended with victory for Sebastien Loeb in 2002. Or at least that's the way he chooses to remember it. The stewards felt differently and demoted him to second for a tyre regulation infringement.

The C4 WRC arrived after a year-long sabbatical for Citroen - like the one the Parisians took last season - and began with a dominant Monte 2007 one-two for Loeb and Dani Sordo.

Loeb, Monte 2012

And the DS 3? It won its first Monte by almost three minutes in 2012. Loeb was, once again, at the wheel.

But the C3's problems were clear to see from the roadside last weekend.

Stage three and Ogier tears into view with his Ford Fiesta WRC on the limiter in fifth. One more flick and it's top gear. And pinned.

Bump. Settle. Bump. Settle. Flat-right. On rails. Gone.

Thierry Neuville's Hyundai? The same. Even the Belgian's team-mate Sordo, a man with zero confidence in the car beneath him, didn't lift. And neither did Jari-Matti Latvala in the new Toyota.

All of which made Meeke's approach more than a little surprising.

He came into view on song and pulled top. The first bump delivered that horrible tell-tale graunch of steel on Tar. A shower of sparks confirmed the car had bottomed out.

The understandable lift is accompanied by a multitude of explosions as the exhaust expels unburned fuel. Anti-lag offers no place to hide.

With doubt firmly at the forefront of his mind and the revs falling further, Meeke knocks the car down to fifth for the right-hander everyone else was flat in sixth for.

It didn't help when Breen came through next, wringing the neck of the old DS 3 and probably wishing for seventh rather than thinking about fifth.

Something wasn't right.

There was no hiding the low-slung stance of the new Citroen. Check out the shots of the car in loose snow: inevitably it's the C3 kicking it up over the bonnet.

Meeke, Citroen, Monte

The C3 was a real handful last week, Meeke's brief appearance in second its only spell near the front.

One rival suggested the reason with more than a hint of sarcasm.

"Looks like they brought last year's touring car," he said.

Team principal Yves Matton fronted up and admitted things had gone awry.

"We were expecting a better result from this rally," he said.

Any hope of a result had gone south when first Lefebvre then Meeke went off the road, but even if they'd avoided incident, it's hard to see how either would've challenged their factory rivals.

It's been said a million times, but we'll say it a million and one: the Monte is one of the most unpredictable rounds of the season.

Everything is a compromise. And a gamble. A poor performance need not be a sign of a fundamental, year-long, car flaw.

Citroen tested exclusively in dry conditions and that choice was reflected in its poor performance in the snow and ice.

Having watched the C3 WRC flying in Wales late last year during gravel tests, I'd wager this was a French Alps-specific issue.

That's probably why Meeke remains so upbeat - encouraging from a driver who has become increasingly cautious in recent seasons.

"We can test, test and test again, but it's on the rally that you really learn and we've learned a hell of a lot," he said.

"I'm still very, very excited about what we've got coming. We did a couple of asphalt tests - both in the dry - for this event, but we've had plenty on gravel and snow.

"For Sweden, we'll be there. This thing's definitely not going to rattle me."

[N.O.T]

by chris evans... lol.....

[tomhlord]

One rival suggested the reason with more than a hint of sarcasm.

"Looks like they brought last year's touring car," he said.

Brilliant.

A very interesting read.

[USER47]

by chris evans... lol.....
David.

[itix]

bad driver lineup
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127881
or
Citroen's fully-fledged factory World Rally Championship return got off to a bad start in Monte Carlo. A one-off or a sign of a tough 2017 to come, asks DAVID EVANS

David Evans blurbinbg his bollocks again...

Drawing conclusions from 1 very specialized rally and from spectating one corner *sigh*.

Also, the man writes as vaguely as he can about everything except the hard facts (Citroen had a shit weekend), probably to cater for the possibility that he's totally wrong and the Citroen is fast after all, just not on that particular rally.

Why does he still have a job? Oh yeah right, because everyone reading Autosport only really care about F1.

[Oppositelock]

David Evans blurbinbg his bollocks again...

Drawing conclusions from 1 very specialized rally and from spectating one corner *sigh*.

Also, the man writes as vaguely as he can about everything except the hard facts (Citroen had a shit weekend), probably to cater for the possibility that he's totally wrong and the Citroen is fast after all, just not on that particular rally.

Why does he still have a job? Oh yeah right, because everyone reading Autosport only really care about F1.



And what exactly is not correct in David's story? Come on, he is writing for Autosport, not Racecar Engineering. He's explaining with the help of one corner what could be seen on a thousands corners more.

And it's not his fault, that the majority of Autosport reader's - of every general motorsport magazine worldwide that is - are F1 fans and care about Rallying only on the side.

At least he is one of the few journalist's who still takes the time to watch stages.

[AL14]

And what exactly is not correct in David's story?

There are a lot of simple rally fans that own a blog or a magazine who write for free without the means he has and their works are often more meaningful and less hot air.
Just think at this summer and silly season with vw withdrawal and so on, we were not informed, everything was in the mistery, it doesn't happen in other sports because there are real journalists that do their job properly and not by copying/pasting press realeases or giving non authoritative opinions.

[AL14]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2017/mikkelsen-polo-return-/page/4251--12-12-.html


VOLKSWAGEN REFUGEE ANDREAS MIKKELSEN IS TARGETING A RETURN TO THE WORLD RALLY CAR CATEGORY LATER THIS YEAR ABOARD A 2017-SPEC POLO R.

Some quotes.
"I want the Polo, it's the only car I know how to drive - I have done so much testing with it, it's really a pretty special one."

"I have to look for sponsors to do it, we try to do Portugal then Poland - I want to target three events and get back to a factory team for next season. Everybody is working hard, Volkswagen is doing everything it can."

"I will do the recces for all rallies this year and then let's see what budget we can get together to do as many rallies as possible to stay sharp for 2018," h

[N.O.T]

And what exactly is not correct in David's story? Come on, he is writing for Autosport, not Racecar Engineering. He's explaining with the help of one corner what could be seen on a thousands corners more.

And it's not his fault, that the majority of Autosport reader's - of every general motorsport magazine worldwide that is - are F1 fans and care about Rallying only on the side.

At least he is one of the few journalist's who still takes the time to watch stages.

nice try david but you are worthless.

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota have to change rear suspension arm and engine spring valves till Sweden: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/artikel/d/2017/01/25/fia-verlangt-aenderungen-am-toyota-yaris-wrc/

[Sulland]

Toyota have to change rear suspension arm and engine spring valves till Sweden: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/artikel/d/2017/01/25/fia-verlangt-aenderungen-am-toyota-yaris-wrc/

English:

https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A//www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/artikel/d/2017/01/25/fia-verlangt-aenderungen-am-toyota-yaris-wrc/

(https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A//www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/artikel/d/2017/01/25/fia-verlangt-aenderungen-am-toyota-yaris-wrc/)

[Mintexmemory]

Toyota have to change rear suspension arm and engine spring valves till Sweden: https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/artikel/d/2017/01/25/fia-verlangt-aenderungen-am-toyota-yaris-wrc/

Actually the tranlation says:
'Before rally Sweden, Toyota has to improve the upper mounting points of the rear shock absorbers. The distance between the underbody and the spring strut is too long.
As "Motorsport aktuell" learned, the valves of the turbo four-cylinder have to be changed. An unauthorized material was used.
However, because the rebuild of the engine cannot be finished by Rally Sweden, the team has until Mexico to comply with this point...

[Mintexmemory]

English:

https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A//www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/artikel/d/2017/01/25/fia-verlangt-aenderungen-am-toyota-yaris-wrc/

(https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A//www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/artikel/d/2017/01/25/fia-verlangt-aenderungen-am-toyota-yaris-wrc/)

Actually that's Googlish - Looks like English but with the strangled germanic sentence construction retained and literal rather than 'sense' translations for certain words.

[Oppositelock]

nice try david but you are worthless.

Didn't know that my English is that good. I start to question your god-like abilities

[tomhlord]

David Evans blurbinbg his bollocks again...

Drawing conclusions from 1 very specialized rally and from spectating one corner *sigh*.

Not sure you read the whole article? It talks about more than just one corner...

[tomhlord]

Just think at this summer and silly season with vw withdrawal and so on, we were not informed, everything was in the mistery, it doesn't happen in other sports because there are real journalists that do their job properly and not by copying/pasting press realeases or giving non authoritative opinions.

Or how about, no.

Autocar journalists broke the story of leaving before it was official, disproving your point.

[AL14]

Or how about, no.

Autocar journalists broke the story of leaving before it was official, disproving your point.

My point was against Evans, not all the journalists. But anyway it is true that a large part of rally news comes after official statements and similar.

[tomhlord]

My point was against Evans, not all the journalists.

Other journalists? In Rallying? Paid, not fans? With contacts? Steady on.

[AL14]

what?

[RS]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2017/mikkelsen-polo-return-/page/4251--12-12-.html


VOLKSWAGEN REFUGEE ANDREAS MIKKELSEN IS TARGETING A RETURN TO THE WORLD RALLY CAR CATEGORY LATER THIS YEAR ABOARD A 2017-SPEC POLO R.

Some quotes.
"I want the Polo, it's the only car I know how to drive - I have done so much testing with it, it's really a pretty special one."

"I have to look for sponsors to do it, we try to do Portugal then Poland - I want to target three events and get back to a factory team for next season. Everybody is working hard, Volkswagen is doing everything it can."

"I will do the recces for all rallies this year and then let's see what budget we can get together to do as many rallies as possible to stay sharp for 2018," h

He also told Autosport magazine that if the Polo thing doesn't work out there is a chance he will do more in the Skoda.

So maybe the second Fabia is reserved for another Even Management driver, we just don't know which one yet.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ford WRC return ??

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2017/ford-considering-wrc/page/4254--12-12-.html

[Andre Oliveira]

Seb Ogier contract should be the first sign. Lets wait

[macebig]

Lets be clear.Ford has allocated the majority of its motorsport budget in a quest to regain the Nascar championships.They signed Penske Team in 2012 and this year they got Stewart-Haas.If their attempts there become successful, then a bigger budget effort in WRC can be on the cards.

[jparker]

Seb Ogier contract should be the first sign. Lets wait

No kidding .....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3MR9baWIAAyQ4D.jpg

[Tarmop]

Well, money is so old, that everyone should have it by now...
(Nascar ofc, but WEC and WRC could be very beneficial and shouldn`t be very costly for them, as European market likes and is more familiar to them, lets see).

[Sulland]

He also told Autosport magazine that if the Polo thing doesn't work out there is a chance he will do more in the Skoda.

So maybe the second Fabia is reserved for another Even Management driver, we just don't know which one yet.

Will VW release a 16 Polo, for him to keep the speed in his body?

[macebig]

Will VW release a 16 Polo, for him to keep the speed in his body?

If he can pay for it....

[Mintexmemory]

If he can pay for it....

Clearly VW want their cake and eat it! - If a 2016 Polo was on the cards they'd have released it for RMC

[SubaruNorway]

Clearly VW want their cake and eat it! - If a 2016 Polo was on the cards they'd have released it for RMC

2 left of them? Not sure, but would believe Petter has 3 and then there was another one buying one of the 6 for sale right?

[Franky]

1. 2017 spec
2. No
3. VW

[jparker]

1. 2017 spec
2. No
3. VW

thanks for answerig so quickly, I just deleted my questions by mistake. Posting from smartphone is not very predictable.

[jparker]

So, if I understand correctly, no 2017 specs VW is currently built. Who is going to build such car for Mikkelsen? Is it to late for that?

[SubaruNorway]

So, if I understand correctly, no 2017 specs VW is currently built. Who is going to build such car for Mikkelsen? Is it to late for that?

Car(s) is already built and race ready

[jparker]

Car(s) is already built and race ready

But who built them?
Are those cars built by VW, or somebody else?

[seb_sh]

But who built them?
Are those cars built by VW, or somebody else?

Everything is built and run by the VW team. No one else can build the cars. They kept preparing till the end of 2016 as if they were going to compete so there exist cars that are race ready or close to that at VW.

[jparker]

Everything is built and run by the VW team. No one else can build the cars. They kept preparing till the end of 2016 as if they were going to compete so there exist cars that are race ready or close to that at VW.

Thank you, it's all clear now.
It will be shame if we don't see them in action.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

To be honest, I really dont see the point in Mikkelsen and his backers making this big effort to get a Polo for 2017 season. It's going to a massive struggle in all kinds of ways and I dont see it happening fast enough for him to have any chance of competing for the Championship. He should just say fresh running the Skoda in some events and wait for a 2018 seat.

[er88]

To be honest, I really dont see the point in Mikkelsen and his backers making this big effort to get a Polo for 2017 season. It's going to a massive struggle in all kinds of ways and I dont see it happening fast enough for him to have any chance of competing for the Championship. He should just say fresh running the Skoda in some events and wait for a 2018 seat.
Think Andreas is only thinking about entering the 2017 VW car in selected events. 3 or 4 at most. No way he'll find the budget for the whole season

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Rally Power]

To be honest, I really dont see the point in Mikkelsen and his backers making this big effort to get a Polo for 2017 season. It's going to a massive struggle in all kinds of ways and I dont see it happening fast enough for him to have any chance of competing for the Championship. He should just say fresh running the Skoda in some events and wait for a 2018 seat.

Maybe this isn’t just about Mikkelsen getting a chance to drive a ’17 WRC.

We still remember this: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport-wrc/dakar-winner-could-drive-volkswagen-polo-wrc-2017-championship

So, a short time after VW’s pull out, VW Motorsport staff and at least one member of the VW board (Dr. Welsch) were trying to do a venture with Al Attiyha and Qatar to homologate and run the Polos on this year championship. We know it was impossible and that VW M people still aren’t allowed by VW board to put a euro on WRC running programmes. This Mikkelsen thing seems to be their C plan…

At least, VW M (and some VW execs) are showing a strong will to put the car on WRC stages, probably to remember the board that it’s a waste to abort this project, and VW’s comeback in ’18 (with a car based on the next Polo generation or under Skoda, or even Seat, brands) would be the right thing to do.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Much as we might like to see the '17 Polo in the WRC, personally I wouldnt bet any of my money on it ever happening.

And the longer it takes the further behind it will be with all the other cars running and gaining reliability and performance..

[BigWorm]

Much as we might like to see the '17 Polo in the WRC, personally I wouldnt bet any of my money on it ever happening.

And the longer it takes the further behind it will be with all the other cars running and gaining reliability and performance..

edit: double

[BigWorm]

Much as we might like to see the '17 Polo in the WRC, personally I wouldnt bet any of my money on it ever happening.

And the longer it takes the further behind it will be with all the other cars running and gaining reliability and performance..

With you on this. How much testing in it has he actually done? Probably not more than the others last year. He'll be way off the other boys.

[SubaruNorway]

With you on this. How much testing in it has he actually done? Probably not more than the others last year. He'll be way off the other boys.

Well, he's done zero testing in any other car so the Polo will be the easiest choice. So instead of wasting the three rallies he might do on setting up a car it might be better to use the Polo like he said himself "It's the only car i know how to drive"

[olemann]

Little boy defeated by Mads Østberg with barely 5 second in Rally Finnskog today.

[SubaruNorway]

Little boy defeated by Mads Østberg with barely 5 second in Rally Finnskog today.

Østberg had a broken front diff and some brake issues, Veiby started 7 cars behind and has probably been recceing these stages a 100 times through the years as he lives there, but still a good drive.

[olemann]

Mikkelsen is probably not willing to pay for a seat but if he wanted a seat is not lack of money missing. He is not some kid with no money, even in Norway. None of you would be able to dream of buying his father's cottage An example.

[dimviii]

I think I had read that last years are not so wealthy

[olemann]

Does not look like that in Norwegian tax rolls today.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's going to be a real shame when Ostberg, Prokop & Bertelli all have '17 WRC cars if AM still hasn't... :(

[Franky]

Well, you can only blame Mikkelsen for not being willing to cough up the money for the car.

[Myrvold]

Well, you can only blame Mikkelsen for not being willing to cough up the money for the car.

There is not many drivers willing to use own personal money for driving in the WRC. Petter being an exception.

[Vahula]

Even would find some sponsors if they wanted.

[Rallyper]

It's going to be a real shame when Ostberg, Prokop & Bertelli all have '17 WRC cars if AM still hasn't... :(

So they should step back and say: "Here you are, use our money and spend it on a VW. We can stand beside and look when you´re driving WRC, with our money." Is that what you mean?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So they should step back and say: "Here you are, use our money and spend it on a VW. We can stand beside and look when you´re driving WRC, with our money." Is that what you mean?

Not at all. It's just that AM has a greater talent and we will be denied seeing it and instead have lesser drivers in these new cars.

[Andre Oliveira]

Mikkelsen should get the money and bet in Fiesta WRC'17. Cheaper than the VW, will be developed by Ogier and can shine again with same car of 4 time champion.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's a pity he couldnt have partnered with fellow-Norwegan Ostberg, instead of Prokop... but I assume he just couldnt afford it with sponsorship.

[Mintexmemory]

Think Andreas is only thinking about entering the 2017 VW car in selected events. 3 or 4 at most. No way he'll find the budget for the whole season

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

...and that is the sticking point! For anyone to rally a 2017 Polo it must be homolagated. For it to be homolgated it must be entered by a 'manufacturer' team for the whole season before any private examples may compete. This is what the other teams have quite rightly objected to.

[jparker]

My feeling, if the VW thing doesn't work, AM will end up in one of the current WRC Teams. He's very talented and valuable driver, and some other team disappointments may open the door for him.

[Simmi]

...and that is the sticking point! For anyone to rally a 2017 Polo it must be homolagated. For it to be homolgated it must be entered by a 'manufacturer' team for the whole season before any private examples may compete. This is what the other teams have quite rightly objected to.

From all the meetings it's clear that in the eyes of the FIA you don't need to do a whole season at all. You can get an extraordinary waiver. I wonder whether by just committing to a limited programme the other teams might be more likely to say yes - rather than 10 rounds of potentially big competition.

[Rally Power]

So they should step back and say: "Here you are, use our money and spend it on a VW. We can stand beside and look when you´re driving WRC, with our money." Is that what you mean?

That’s not such a silly idea. There are several examples of rich, but less talented, drivers that found they could live their rally passion supporting talented drivers and become codrivers or team managers (Joaquim Santos, portuguese rally hero, was backed during almost his entire career by codriver and team owner Miguel Oliveira, that started himself as a driver).

Btw, Bertelli came from a country were wealthy people have been generous patrons for centuries. Instead of being a 3rd level driver, it’d be great to see him on WRC as FUCKMATIE team manager, giving young talented drivers the chance to rise and shine on this fantastic sport.

[Andre Oliveira]

Nasser did it (a bit) with Neuville. Maybe he will do something with Mikkelsen.

[EightGear]

That’s not such a silly idea. There are several examples of rich, but less talented, drivers that found they could live their rally passion supporting talented drivers and become codrivers or team managers (Joaquim Santos, portuguese rally hero, was backed during almost his entire career by codriver and team owner Miguel Oliveira, that started himself as a driver).

Btw, Bertelli came from a country were wealthy people have been generous patrons for centuries. Instead of being a 3rd level driver, it’d be great to see him on WRC as FUCKMATIE team manager, giving young talented drivers the chance to rise and shine on this fantastic sport.
Never going to happen.

We all like to see Mikkelsen in a WRC car but living in a fantasy world won't make that happen.

[sollitt]

That’s not such a silly idea. It is a silly idea when people suggest the they "should" do it. It is not a silly idea if they want to do it.

[Rally Power]

Never going to happen.
We all like to see Mikkelsen in a WRC car but living in a fantasy world won't make that happen.

New crystal ball? How can you be so sure Mikkelsen won’t get a chance and say it’s a fantasy to see him driving a WRC this year? Probably that VW deal won’t happen, but if he gets enough money maybe Mr. Wilson will try to get him a car for 2 or 3 events.

[Simmi]

New crystal ball? How can you be so sure Mikkelsen won’t get a chance and say it’s a fantasy to see him driving a WRC this year?

I think he was saying it's a fantasy for a guy like Prokop or Bertelli to pay for the car and team infrastructure - then simply hand it over to Andreas.

[EightGear]

I think he was saying it's a fantasy for a guy like Prokop or Bertelli to pay for the car and team infrastructure - then simply hand it over to Andreas.

Yes, indeed that is what I meant. Seeing Mikkelsen in a '17 car could happen, but not by having Bertelli/Prokop/insert paydriver pay for it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No-one said any of the privateers should pay for a Mikkelsen drive.. just that it's a shame these lesser drivers have the money for a car and he hasn't.

BTW, with Ostberg, Prokop and Bertelli buying drives in 2017 cars, is the WRC Trophy dead ?

[Duvel]

No-one said any of the privateers should pay for a Mikkelsen drive.. just that it's a shame these lesser drivers have the money for a car and he hasn't.

BTW, with Ostberg, Prokop and Bertelli buying drives in 2017 cars, is the WRC Trophy dead ?

i'm afraid the trophy wil never be a succes, these 3 drivers would be perfect for that trophy. But if they want the 2017 spec, its also ok for me.

[Franky]

No-one said any of the privateers should pay for a Mikkelsen drive.. just that it's a shame these lesser drivers have the money for a car and he hasn't.

Let's put it the way how it's in reality. Mikkelsen is not willing to pay unlike those lesser drivers.

[skarderud]

If Mikkelsen has know about VW exit before, he probably had a seat this year. With or without some sort of backing. If ogier had refused M-sport, Mikkelsen would been driving ogiers car.

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[jparker]

Is it common for driver's contract to have clause that require mandatory minimal performance, and if not met, contract to be terminated?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Let's put it the way how it's in reality. Mikkelsen is not willing to pay unlike those lesser drivers.

You suggest he could pay but he wont. Is there any proof of this ?

I believe his family stopped paying for his rallying a long time ago.

[N.O.T]

is it common for driver's contract to have clause that require mandatory minimal performance, and if not met, contract to be terminated?

lol...

[Andre Oliveira]

No-one said any of the privateers should pay for a Mikkelsen drive.. just that it's a shame these lesser drivers have the money for a car and he hasn't.

BTW, with Ostberg, Prokop and Bertelli buying drives in 2017 cars, is the WRC Trophy dead ?

Like i said and (i think) N. O. T. said, the trophy is a farse. Better open the trophy to 2017 cars... privateer is the driver/team not the car.

[AL14]

Like i said and (i think) N. O. T. said, the trophy is a farse. Better open the trophy to 2017 cars... privateer is the driver/team not the car.

I don't agree. Privateer trophy have no reason to exist with official WRC cars imho. They're using the same car as the championship and there is already a trophy for it: the world championship. If they want they can win it. With 2016 cars is ok but not with new ones.

There is no reason to find more than one winner like in the kindergarten.

[SubaruNorway]

You suggest he could pay but he wont. Is there any proof of this ?

I believe his family stopped paying for his rallying a long time ago.

Veiby said so in an article on parcferme.no

[Andre Oliveira]

So Serderidis last and first in Monte Carlo is better? Privateers do a sacrifice to be there and no media attention. Not a championship, a trophy to they.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Veiby said so in an article on parcferme.no

Link ?

He has been a paid driver for many years now. Who would his source of support be ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So Serderidis last and first in Monte Carlo is better? Privateers do a sacrifice to be there and no media attention. Not a championship, a trophy to they.

I kind of agree, but the others have the money for 2017 cars so they dont really need the media/trophy for sponsors...

[SubaruNorway]

Link ?

He has been a paid driver for many years now. Who would his source of support be ?

https://www.parcferme.no/nyheter/gjr-alt-for-sette-andreas-i-en-17-spec-polo-wrc

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.parcferme.no/nyheter/gjr-alt-for-sette-andreas-i-en-17-spec-polo-wrc

Translation:
'We are also in dialogue with external sponsors who may help to finance this (2017 Polo) with our own funds, although we probably can not add "gold ions" of sums of this year, says the manager.'

[AL14]

So Serderidis last and first in Monte Carlo is better? Privateers do a sacrifice to be there and no media attention. Not a championship, a trophy to they.

There is a trophy! They have one. Serderidis, whom I respect, was there alone in Monte. I would complain with the privateers who asked this trophy for years and now that they have it they're not participating at it.

Prokop retired 8-9 times from WRC, saying that he wanted a privateer trophy and now he's buying a new car. But it's ok, he's free to do it but I hope he will not complain anymore.

[Walach]

He will.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I really wonder why Ostberg & Prokop are so keen to have 2017 cars when they still wont be WRC competitive...

[Mirek]

I really wonder why Ostberg & Prokop are so keen to have 2017 cars when they still wont be WRC competitive...

I wonder why do You think they shall prefer to drive outdated cars with which they neither have a chance nor get any attention?

[Andre Oliveira]

Prokop is not a gentleman driver. He is very smart! Goes with speed that allow finish and save material. If he have money to do what all of us wanted too, why not? I am fan of he and of guys like Mads and Henning... only one can win.

[N.O.T]

I really wonder why Ostberg & Prokop are so keen to have 2017 cars when they still wont be WRC competitive...

for the same same reason they wanted to drive WRC cars the years before...

[jparker]

https://www.parcferme.no/nyheter/gjr-alt-for-sette-andreas-i-en-17-spec-polo-wrc

Also in the article:

Toyota and Citroen will also pay close attention to Andreas Mikkelsen this year ............

[JUF]

Armin Kremer has stopped his WRC2 programme. Instead, he concentrates on supporting Marijan Griebel in ERC.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I wonder why do You think they shall prefer to drive outdated cars with which they neither have a chance nor get any attention?

What attention will they get in '17 cars ? If this forum is anything to go by, just ridicule...

[N.O.T]

What attention will they get in '17 cars ? If this forum is anything to go by, just ridicule...

i do not think that they care what a forum thinks.

99% of rally fans and motorsport are worthless plebs who just want to see fast cars and they do not go deep into anything, you can see it here in the forum as well 99% are ok with everything and i am the lone white knight trying to open your eyes to the truth. But a pleb will always be a pleb.

[markpcym]

So the one remaining percent are cocks? Is this what you are in?

[jparker]

Rally Finland (@RallyFinland) tweeted at 2:15 PM on Tue, Jan 31, 2017:
Finnish ASN AKK-Motorsport has granted a special permission for @KalleRovanpera to compete in Finland!

[N.O.T]

So the one remaining percent are cocks? Is this what you are in?

location: wales.... LOL

[markpcym]

location: wales.... LOL

You better believe it..

[Myrvold]

Armin Kremer has stopped his WRC2 programme. Instead, he concentrates on supporting Marijan Griebel in ERC.

A bit different situation though. Kremer won his ERC title before any of the privateers that people want to "pay for Mikkelsen" even started driving (With the exception of Prokop, who started in 01).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Just to clarify: I think its fine for privateers to drive '17 cars - they can do what they want with their money and more new WRC's are good to watch for the fans.

If they enjoy driving them thats fine, but they cant expect big praise or coverage when they finish behind all the factory drivers every rally.

That's what the WRC Trophy was intended for and would've given them something to really compete for between themselves.

[Mirek]

The Trophy was created because they didn't know what else to do with the old 2016 cars. It will be over after a year or two without any interest just like the R-GT challenge before.

[seb_sh]

The Trophy was created because they didn't know what else to do with the old 2016 cars. It will be over after a year or two without any interest just like the R-GT challenge before.

Yeah exactly, it was a compromise. It could have been good for 2017 if there had not been enough new cars available but I don't see it being a thing in 2018, maybe not even this year. As a concept i think it wasn't bad, to have something for privateers in the transitional year, but if the privateers already have 2017 cars it's kind of useless...

[Munkvy]

It's a bit of a waste, I feel if the FIA had promoted it as an idea sooner, it would have been well suited to targeting rich nobodies who want to drive a WRC car and have a chance to get themselves a trophy in the process. Would have suited Citroen and MSport too, as keeps some money coming in for them.

With only a few seconds thinking of potential customers, I can think of a few people who it would suit well... Paulo Nobre, Bertelli, the various Arabian businessmen (except Nasser perhaps), Ken Block, the list goes on. Definitely a lost opportunity! Although you would have to run them behind the WRC2 cars to make sure their accidents didn't slow too many people down! And maybe the results would have to be on a separate table, so that you can't see on TV that they get beaten by R3 cars.

[Simmi]

What attention will they get in '17 cars ? If this forum is anything to go by, just ridicule...

Only TV mentions they typically get are when they crash.

[Mirek]

Driving power stage live on TV, having better starting number, better service place, driving in front of a larger crowd, crossing the start ramp among the top crews and we can go on.

Try to understand that there is simply no advantage in driving some useless and invisible trophy nobody cares about.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Driving power stage live on TV, having better starting number, better service place, driving in front of a larger crowd, crossing the start ramp among the top crews and we can go on.


Vanity in other words.

[Franky]

Vanity in other words.

It's human nature. Would you drive Formula Ford, if you've got money for a F1 drive?

[Mirek]

Vanity in other words.

No, simple logic. It's not like the trophy is for free. The whole thing costs enormous money and it's perfectly logical to want the best possible service for what You pay instead of virtually throwing them out of the window. Of course human nature is another very important factor. Why shall anyone prefer not to take part in the very best league (when he can) is beyond me.

[dimviii]

https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127959/ostberg-new-team-debut-a-huge-challenge

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No, simple logic. It's not like the trophy is for free. The whole thing costs enormous money and it's perfectly logical to want the best possible service for what You pay instead of virtually throwing them out of the window. Of course human nature is another very important factor. Why shall anyone prefer not to take part in the very best league (when he can) is beyond me.

I notice amongst all the reasons you listed (for having a 2017 WRC) there is no mention of:

1. Competing against the best WRC drivers in the world
2. To try to set fastest time on a WRC rally stage
3. To try to win a WRC rally

I would have time for your argument if you had... but you know as well as I do that these privateers have no chance of doing any of them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127959/ostberg-new-team-debut-a-huge-challenge

"This is a very big challenge for me and for the team," Ostberg told Autosport.
"If it all works, we should get some time with the car this weekend,
but that's not going to give me anything like the kind of experience the others have had with these cars in the last six months."

He wants to be in a 2017 car but Mads getting his excuses ready early.

[Rallyper]

"This is a very big challenge for me and for the team," Ostberg told Autosport.
"If it all works, we should get some time with the car this weekend,
but that's not going to give me anything like the kind of experience the others have had with these cars in the last six months."

He wants to be in a 2017 car but Mads getting his excuses ready early.

So Mads is not allowed having explicit excuses like other drivers had in the past and many of you guys find relevant regarding your own homedrivers?

[dimviii]

So Mads is not allowed having explicit excuses like other drivers had in the past and many of you guys find relevant regarding your own homedrivers?

of course he is allowed,as we are to discuss here.

hint. with 2017 cars will be slower than 2016 car.

[SubaruNorway]

of course he is allowed,as we are to discuss here.

hint. with 2017 cars will be slower than 2016 car.

You're allowed to, but how dumb do you want to look though? ;)

[dimviii]

You're allowed to, but how dumb do you want to look though? ;)

I really don't care what fanboys think about me.

[Mirek]

I notice amongst all the reasons you listed (for having a 2017 WRC) there is no mention of:

1. Competing against the best WRC drivers in the world
2. To try to set fastest time on a WRC rally stage
3. To try to win a WRC rally

I would have time for your argument if you had... but you know as well as I do that these privateers have no chance of doing any of them.

And Your point is? I don't see any reason to continue useless discussion about how stupid they are when they want to drive what they want to drive. Sorry but that's childish.

[stefanvv]

"This is a very big challenge for me and for the team," Ostberg told Autosport.
"If it all works, we should get some time with the car this weekend,
but that's not going to give me anything like the kind of experience the others have had with these cars in the last six months."

He wants to be in a 2017 car but Mads getting his excuses ready early.

Ogier drove Fiesta for couple of days and won Monte Carlo. How difficult can it be?

[Rallyper]

Ogier drove Fiesta for couple of days and won Monte Carlo. How difficult can it be?

However others were faster. And he drove it, yes. More than a couple of times and of course you know how many km´s? Discussion unnecessary bcs Mads car is built on today. So guess how many km´s behind wheel that permits?

[Simmi]

Anyone know how many tests Mads did in the 2017 car before Christmas? I think at least one? I seem to remember he was due to test another time but the car blew an engine? Maybe I remembered incorrectly?

[stefanvv]

However others were faster. And he drove it, yes. More than a couple of times and of course you know how many km´s? Discussion unnecessary bcs Mads car is built on today. So guess how many km´s behind wheel that permits?

No I don't know how many kms. That doesn't matter anyway.
The point is we should not bother of Ostberg "difficulties" and only make sarcastic/ironic comments on them. For once and for all, he knows where he is, and we all know where he is, and this is really not necessary to focus on.

[denkimi]

Ogier drove Fiesta for couple of days and won Monte Carlo. How difficult can it be?
was it not 12 days?

[stefanvv]

was it not 12 days?

So what even if he did? He can become the driver he is for that time or what?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And Your point is? I don't see any reason to continue useless discussion about how stupid they are when they want to drive what they want to drive. Sorry but that's childish.

You are the one that always starts these arguments instead of just letting people have their point of view.

I rest my case.

[dimviii]

Eyvind Brynildsen ‏@E_Brynildsen


More
Did you know there's a new rule for 2017? The cockpit need full padding on the roll cage! Better safety we take bigger risk :) #WRC #R5


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3qyYGFWEAQ3PEx.jpg

[Simmi]

Seemed to be more Kubica-back-to-WRC momentum picking up after the Monte. Interesting to see he's entered Le Mans and the WEC in LMP1. Albeit a non-competitive car.

I'd say that has to rule him out of any significant rally programme this year. Even if he is currently testing the Abarth.

[maciotacio]

There wasn't any chance for a significant rally program for this year, especially after VW exit and three better names on the market. Robert hasn't done anything towards rally program over last few months.
http://rallyzone.ru/.contents/1102847351909996/1485843335773461/0/ru/

He already ruled out private entry after Wales 2015. You can't compete with 10-12 people team against over 100 factory crews. With no manufacture drive offer on the table, we won't see Kubica at WRC level.
It's a shame. I still believe he's able to win WRC round, at least on tarmac with a decent car. It would be some achievement to win both WRC rally and F1 race.

[Tarmop]

If i remember correctly, Kubica wanted to participate but lost his main sponsor LOTOS?

[maciotacio]

Yes, he still wanted to do few rallies with better preparation in 2016 but due to pollitics Lotos management has changed and the sponorship was shut down. Sadly Lotos wan't as loyal as Kubica after 2013, when he turned down Citroen offer with WRC drive.
Even second Lotos driver Kajto (2x ERC champion and 4x Polish champ) has difficulties with a proper rally program. By proper I mean ERC or WRC2 season.

[AL14]

After having tested Fiat 124 yesterday Kubica will test Hyundai R5 today.
I also have heard about him participating full time at WEC not only first round. I hope that.

[Barreis]

After having tested Fiat 124 yesterday Kubica will test Hyundai R5 today.
I also have heard about him participating full time at WEC not only first round. I hope that.

kubica wec program
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127976

[dimviii]

Eyvind Brynildsen ‏@E_Brynildsen 4h
4 hours ago


More
There's not only new rules for roll cage padding. There's also a new fire extinguisher system for R5! A lot of work!! #WRC #FIA #hardwork

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3uxw8iWAAAohM0.jpg

[dimviii]

Latvala admits he became obsessed with copying Ogier at VW WRC

https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127990/latvala-became-obsessed-with-copying-ogier

[AL14]

Latvala admits he became obsessed with copying Ogier at VW WRC

https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127990/latvala-became-obsessed-with-copying-ogier

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I think that he is a strange guy because he is pratically humiliating himself publicy showing his weakness in this way. On the other hand I admire him because he is man enough to share his feelings without being ashamed about them. And actually, if you think about it, there is nothing to be ashamed of.

Still, what he says is that Ogier has beaten him so badly that he lost his mind.
Anyway, it is very nice to know this side of the struggle of WRC drivers and is good that there are nice and open people like him to share it with us.

[Walach]

Interesting interview with Prokop for sport.cz
https://www.sport.cz/moto/rallye/clanek/851350-ctyrnasobny-mistr-sveta-v-ceskem-tymu-nebyla-to-utopie-ale-trumfem-pro-velke-bitvy-je-nor.html#hp-sez

He claims that his team almost secured VW cars for 2017 season.

Full quote:
Everything was agreed. Red Bull would be involved, as Ogier's partner. Three cars would be run by our team in Jihlava. VW board knew that the budget would correspond to czech circumstances. Ogier even agreed to skip Monte Carlo noting that he would 14 have more days with his family. But in the last minute before signing the deal one regular WRC competitor got interested. He promised Qatar money to Volkswagen. Everything got stucked. Ogier shown his tolerance and postponed his signing twice. When he finally had no other option, he signed for Ford. And actually, I did too.

[Lundefaret]

Latvala admits he became obsessed with copying Ogier at VW WRC

https://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127990/latvala-became-obsessed-with-copying-ogier

"I even had brake support under the pedals like he had. I was trying everything."
Quote Jari-Matti Latvala

I think this might be a misunderstanding between the journalist Latvala, but if any of you have other info please share.
If the quote is correct Latvala had something mounted under his pedal to assist braking. Since ABS etc is illegal, I cant really understand what this might be.
My best explanation is that he is talking of a diff setting with brake support (lower ramp angle on braking) but I am not sure.

[AL14]

"I even had brake support under the pedals like he had. I was trying everything."
Quote Jari-Matti Latvala

I think this might be a misunderstanding between the journalist Latvala, but if any of you have other info please share.
If the quote is correct Latvala had something mounted under his pedal to assist braking. Since ABS etc is illegal, I cant really understand what this might be.
My best explanation is that he is talking of a diff setting with brake support (lower ramp angle on braking) but I am not sure.

What I thought is something like some kind of cushion to help him breake easy when needed. But I'm not the best one to guess this kind of stuff :D

[EstWRC]

Interesting interview with Prokop for sport.cz
https://www.sport.cz/moto/rallye/clanek/851350-ctyrnasobny-mistr-sveta-v-ceskem-tymu-nebyla-to-utopie-ale-trumfem-pro-velke-bitvy-je-nor.html#hp-sez

He claims that his team almost secured VW cars for 2017 season.

Full quote:
Everything was agreed. Red Bull would be involved, as Ogier's partner. Three cars would be run by our team in Jihlava. VW board knew that the budget would correspond to czech circumstances. Ogier even agreed to skip Monte Carlo noting that he would 14 have more days with his family. But in the last minute before signing the deal one regular WRC competitor got interested. He promised Qatar money to Volkswagen. Everything got stucked. Ogier shown his tolerance and postponed his signing twice. When he finally had no other option, he signed for Ford. And actually, I did too.

this sounds very interesting, basically very little was left to make actually 3 Polo's run this year.

[PLuto]

Eyvind Brynildsen ‏@E_Brynildsen 4h
4 hours ago


More
There's not only new rules for roll cage padding. There's also a new fire extinguisher system for R5! A lot of work!! #WRC #FIA #hardwork

All this info regarding cage padding and fire extinguisher (and anti-torpedo tabs, racing fuel tanks or general circuit breaker) were announced in advance during previous year. So I dont know why he is so surprised. For most of the teams this is not new info...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting interview with Prokop for sport.cz
https://www.sport.cz/moto/rallye/clanek/851350-ctyrnasobny-mistr-sveta-v-ceskem-tymu-nebyla-to-utopie-ale-trumfem-pro-velke-bitvy-je-nor.html#hp-sez

He claims that his team almost secured VW cars for 2017 season.

Full quote:
Everything was agreed. Red Bull would be involved, as Ogier's partner. Three cars would be run by our team in Jihlava. VW board knew that the budget would correspond to czech circumstances. Ogier even agreed to skip Monte Carlo noting that he would 14 have more days with his family. But in the last minute before signing the deal one regular WRC competitor got interested. He promised Qatar money to Volkswagen. Everything got stucked. Ogier shown his tolerance and postponed his signing twice. When he finally had no other option, he signed for Ford. And actually, I did too.

Great new info finally shedding some light on what was going on behind the scenes.

I dont quite see why this deal didnt happen since the other interested party didnt make a deal happen in the end...
I suppose it was a time issue and Ogier needed to get his 2017 seat confirmed.

[rallyfiend]

Great new info finally shedding some light on what was going on behind the scenes.

I dont quite see why this deal didnt happen since the other interested party didnt make a deal happen in the end...
I suppose it was a time issue and Ogier needed to get his 2017 seat confirmed.

The biggest problems remains the same.

So far, the car is not allowed to be homologated, regardless of whether there was money there or not...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Four-time world champion in the Czech team? It was not a utopia, but a triumph for the big battle is Norwegian.
Four-time world champion in the Czech service ?! It was not a sci-fi, but a serious deal.

Czech racing driver Martin Prokop and his team had Jipocar ​​under the wings of Frenchman Sebastien Ogier. "Everything had been agreed.
It ruined the only person to whom it is not dependable or, It destroyed the only person which is not reliable,, " he says in an interview with Sport.cz.

Any Czech speaker properly translate this ?

Čtyřnásobný mistr světa v českých službách?! Nešlo o sci-fi, ale seriózní dohodu. Nechybělo mnoho a český automobilový závodník Martin Prokop se svým týmem Jipocar měl pod křídly Francouze Sébastiena Ogiera. „Vše bylo dojednané. Zhatil to jediný člověk, na nějž není spoleh," říká v rozhovoru pro Sport.cz čtyřiatřicetiletý pilot a odkrývá plány do budoucnosti.

[AL14]

Where is Mirek when we need him? :D