Rosbergs replacement

[Klinsman]

Just seen a short clip of Toto been interviewed by Sky Sports saying that they have to consider Alonso for 2017.

I reckon Fernándo's management are currently negotiating with Mercedes/McLaren for him to jump ship and pair up with Lewis for 2017, and that would be a mighty team with I am sure plenty of controversy.

Will Jenson consider staying as the number 1, or will we get musical chairs f1 style.

I think the Mercs are keen on making a decision ASAP so we will soon see.

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[AndyL]

I just can't see it being Alonso. I don't think a throwaway comment when prodded by a journalist means they're seriously considering him. Surely Mercedes will look to the future with a younger driver.

Still, if it does happen, and Button does come back to fill his seat at McLaren, that would be, what, Jenson's 3rd retirement that didn't take? Or 4th?

[N4D13]

I think it's very unlikely that Mercedes will be bringing Alonso in. Rather than the fireworks arising from a Hamilton-Alonso fight, I'm expecting McLaren to have tied him down. I would be very surprised if Macca had allowed Alonso to treat them just a stopgap solution and given him an exit clause. Top teams don't usually do that kind of stuff.

As I already mentioned in a different thread, Joe Saward believes that the most suitable options for Merc right now are Romain Grosjean and Valtteri Bottas, with Carlos Sainz a distant third, as it's unlikely that RBR will be letting go of their investment.

[Nitrodaze]

Just seen a short clip of Toto been interviewed by Sky Sports saying that they have to consider Alonso for 2017.

I reckon Fernándo's management are currently negotiating with Mercedes/McLaren for him to jump ship and pair up with Lewis for 2017, and that would be a mighty team with I am sure plenty of controversy.

Will Jenson consider staying as the number 1, or will we get musical chairs f1 style.

I think the Mercs are keen on making a decision ASAP so we will soon see.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

For a start Alonso is not cheap. Also Mclaren would ask for a huge amount to let Alonso go. I can't see it happening but weirder things has happened in this sport.

[Klinsman]

I think it's very unlikely that Mercedes will be bringing Alonso in. Rather than the fireworks arising from a Hamilton-Alonso fight, I'm expecting McLaren to have tied him down. I would be very surprised if Macca had allowed Alonso to treat them just a stopgap solution and given him an exit clause. Top teams don't usually do that kind of stuff.

As I already mentioned in a different thread, Joe Saward believes that the most suitable options for Merc right now are Romain Grosjean and Valtteri Bottas, with Carlos Sainz a distant third, as it's unlikely that RBR will be letting go of their investment.

I don't really rate Grosjean, and found it bizarre when he was initially linked to Ferrari before Kimi extended his contract.

Bottas I would say would be a good team mate for Lewis, I think he would certainly give him a run for his money.

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[Klinsman]

For a start Alonso is not cheap. Also Mclaren would ask for a huge amount to let Alonso go. I can't see it happening but weirder things has happened in this sport.
Yeah you never know Mercedes have deep pockets remember.

Also as far as sponsorship and publicity is concerned they will command the full attention of motor sport in general.

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[Starter]

I don't really rate Grosjean, and found it bizarre when he was initially linked to Ferrari before Kimi extended his contract.

Bottas I would say would be a good team mate for Lewis, I think he would certainly give him a run for his money.

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Obviously those inside the sport rank him higher than those outside, not sure why.

[Nitrodaze]

Yeah you never know Mercedes have deep pockets remember.

Also as far as sponsorship and publicity is concerned they will command the full attention of motor sport in general.

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

It would be the strongest driver lineup on the grid in 2017 certainly. It would definitely provide some entertaining action from start to finish of the 2017 season. The promoters would love it and it would be a great christmas present to the press. But you have to spare a thought for Mclaren if they lose their star driver, their prospect in 2017 would be somewhat dampened.

[driveace]

Finlands Valtieri Bottas
I am informed by Finns that are in the know .
And Willams will get a sweetener as regards Mercedes engines
And Bottas,s manager is Mr Woolf

[AndyL]

I guess a question is has Toto been secretly enjoying all the attention the team gets as a result of the conflicts between Hamilton or Rosberg. If yes, then Alonso. If no, then Bottas.

[Triumph]

I would be happy with any of the suggested names as I like all of them.

Bottas would be great as I'd like to see what he can do in a top team - likewise with Grosjean. Alonso would be great for obvious reasons, and Sainz in a top team would be highly motivated to demonstrate that he's just as good as Verstappen.

[Nitrodaze]

I think Wehrlein would be up to the job. I think he is as good as Verstapenn and Sainz. He just could not show his true talent in the Manor. But he did give us a glimpse of what he might be capable of. He and Ocon are the future of Mercedes, l see no reason why they would not bring him into the main team and start to nurture him properly. I cannot see a better opportunity to make him a championship winner material than partnering him with a three time world champion like Hamilton.

While l like the Alonso idea, it seems too shortsighted to me. He his closer to the end of his career than Rosberg was. Bottas on the other hand would give Mercedes a longer service, but that may have the effect of keeping Wehrlein and Ocon from a silver arrow seat until Hamilton retires. Depending on how well Bottas performs of course.

The long game would be to promote Wehrlein into the spare seat. He would reward Mercedes with a number of world championships in a few years, l am sure.

[xardi22]

I think Wehrlein will get the job.

[Rollo]

http://www.espn.com.au/f1/story/_/id/18235837/kamui-kobayashi-posts-cv-mercedes-drive
Kamui Kobayashi has thrown his hat into the ring for a Mercedes drive after the world champions posted a job advert for Nico Rosberg's vacant seat.
- ESPN, 9th Dec 2016.

With the exception of convincing Nico to come back, this is the path of least resistance to get the best driver. He should have won Le Mans this year if it wasn't for the fact that the Toyota shat itself with less than 5 minutes to go.

[zako85]

For a start Alonso is not cheap. Also Mclaren would ask for a huge amount to let Alonso go. I can't see it happening but weirder things has happened in this sport.

I don't know why McLaren wouldn't want to release Alonso from contract, besides the fact that Alonso's (and Button's) driving was the only thing that saved McLaren from a complete and total humiliation. In the end, they're paying a ridiculous amount of money for driving a car that regularly fights with Toro Rossos on the field. I think it would have been wiser for McLaren to save some money while at the same time developing young talent.

[Nitrodaze]

I don't know why McLaren wouldn't want to release Alonso from contract, besides the fact that Alonso's (and Button's) driving was the only thing that saved McLaren from a complete and total humiliation. In the end, they're paying a ridiculous amount of money for driving a car that regularly fights with Toro Rossos on the field. I think it would have been wiser for McLaren to save some money while at the same time developing young talent.
I suppose they think Alonso is their best shot at mounting a serious challenge for the constructors and driver titles if they somehow get it right next year and find themselves in the sharp end of the grid. It is a mutual gamble, if Mclaren falls short next year, l would bet my last dollar that Alonso would walk away from Mclaren.

Probably, Alonso's best chance of winning another world championship is in the next three years, after which, he would unlikely be an attractive proposition for top teams. I would wager that Alonso in the Mercedes in 2017 may win the title by 2018 at the latest.

As far as it goes with Mercedes, they have been caught out by the shock withdrawal of Rosberg. But they just have to bide their time for one year and pick their preferred choice in 2018. Most of the best drivers on the grid have their contracts ending in 2018. Vettel, Ricciado and Alonso would be available at that point, so why fret now. Personally, l think they should experiment with Wehrlein in 2017 and see how he copes with a season alongside one of the very best in the game. It is risky for Wehrlein, but it would be a great experience for him and he would learn so much from seeing a three times world champion put together a campaign for the 2017 driver's title from inside Mercedes.

[Koz]

Personally, l think they should experiment with Wehrlein in 2017 and see how he copes with a season alongside one of the very best in the game. It is risky for Wehrlein, but it would be a great experience for him and he would learn so much from seeing a three times world champion put together a campaign for the 2017 driver's title from inside Mercedes.

How well do you think he has done against Ocon? Qualifying was much better, race pace, not so much.


There's always Perez, everyone seems to have ignored him, but I'm sure FI will agree to discounted engines...

[Nitrodaze]

How well do you think he has done against Ocon? Qualifying was much better, race pace, not so much.


There's always Perez, everyone seems to have ignored him, but I'm sure FI will agree to discounted engines...

Brazil was not a good race for Wehrlein. He did not maintain the heat in his tyres as well as Ocon did and he suffered for it. Much like Rosberg in the wet at Monaco this year. Apart from that he has always finished most races ahead of Ocon this year. Even when he had a bad qualifying. This is not to suggest that Ocon is not a good driver. What l am getting at is that Wehrlein has always been able to show that he had more experience than Ocon. That said, Ocon has also showed that with a little more time, he would match or even beat Wehrlein. From what l have seen, they are very closely matched with Wehrlein having a slender edge.

I think these two in a Silver Arrow would offer the same level of exciting entertainment as the Hamilton vs Rosberg rivary. And l look forward to it.

Wehrlein in the Mercedes would win races next season. If Verstapenn can do it, l bet Wehrlein can do it too.



There's always Perez, everyone seems to have ignored him, but I'm sure FI will agree to discounted engines...

There is too much hassle surrounding Perez. As a money bag driver with immense talent, the impact of pricing him away from the clutches of Force India who relies on both his talent and money bag would be troublesome to the Mercedes - Force India relationship. If he was out of contract, Perez would be one of the names highly talked about for this seat. I rate him highly actually. I think in a great car, he would win a drivers world title.

[AndyL]

In races where they both finished, Ocon and Wehrlein were exactly even, 3 each. Including retirements (at least one of which was of Wehrlein's own doing) it was 6-3 in Ocon's favour. Given their relative levels of experience, I think that reflects either well on Ocon or poorly on Wehrlein.

[Nitrodaze]

According to PlanetF1, Massa says he would come out of retirement for a Mercedes seat. Firstly, this says Massa stopped because Williams wasn't going anywhere for his liking and there wasn't any interesting option for him. Secondly, Massa and Hamilton kinda hate each other. Massa felt the 2008 title was stolen from him and would like to return the favour. A Hamilton- Massa partnership would be just as entertaining as a Hamilton - Alonso partnership for the obvious reasons.

But has Massa still got what it takes. Can he match Hamilton on pace? Can he function without Smedley?

[N4D13]

According to PlanetF1, Massa says he would come out of retirement for a Mercedes seat. Firstly, this says Massa stopped because Williams wasn't going anywhere for his liking and there wasn't any interesting option for him. Secondly, Massa and Hamilton kinda hate each other. Massa felt the 2008 title was stolen from him and would like to return the favour. A Hamilton- Massa partnership would be just as entertaining as a Hamilton - Alonso partnership for the obvious reasons.

But has Massa still got what it takes. Can he match Hamilton on pace? Can he function without Smedley?
I think you're missing a really important question. Is Merc interested in getting Massa? I feel the answer is rather obvious.

Besides, I think PlanetF1 should be renamed PlanetBS. :p

[Nitrodaze]

In races where they both finished, Ocon and Wehrlein were exactly even, 3 each. Including retirements (at least one of which was of Wehrlein's own doing) it was 6-3 in Ocon's favour. Given their relative levels of experience, I think that reflects either well on Ocon or poorly on Wehrlein.

Actually, Wehrlein had five DNFs. How l compared Wehrlein to Ocon was to overlap both of their first F1 race results. Hence, if you take Ocon's 9 races and compare it to Wehrlein's first 9 races of the season. And look at the relative highest positions that they finished a race, then you would see that Wehrlein has the edge over Ocon. Unfortunately, he clearly makes a lot of mistakes which l think is putting teams off him. But look back to early Grosjean and Vettel, they crashed a lot when they first started, look at them now. one is a four times world champion.

In their first nine races each, The highest Ocon was able to manage was 12th place but with no DNFs. Wehrlein on the other hand was able to finish tenth and scored one championship point but had one retirement in that period. Another way to look at it was Ocon managed two top fifteen places while Wehrlein managed three top fifteen place in his first nine races.

The only reason Wehrlein might not get the Silver Arrow seat would be his high DNF record.

But that said, this places abit of complication to the Bottas negotiation as well. Mercedes would probably want to offer a cheaper engine deals and Wehrlein in return for Bottas. Williams may like the idea of cheaper engine but the prospect of having two rookies in the team may not be so attractive. Williams need at least one mature and experienced driver alongside Lance Stroll. Of course there is the option of Di Resta filling that requirement, but it leaves the question of what to do with Wehrlein and what Williams would be asking for Bottas excluding Wehrlein.

Bottas is looking very good for the seat at this time but that depends on a number of things.

[Nitrodaze]

I think you're missing a really important question. Is Merc interested in getting Massa? I feel the answer is rather obvious.

Besides, I think PlanetF1 should be renamed PlanetBS. :p

Quite true, he did not account for himself well in the last two seasons.

Mind you there are other options outside the current grid that would just be as interesting. Verne, Buemi and come to think of it, Kyvat would also be interesting options for the spare seat. Both are very quick. Kyvat need to have his head in the right place tho. They would be a less risky options compared to the Mercedes rookies. And they would win races when Hamilton is having bad days.

Verne is currently a reserve driver at Ferrari, l think. Hence he would not be difficult to obtain. Kyvat just signed for Torro Rosso, but he would not be too difficult to pull away from Torro Rosso judging by how this season has turned out for Kyvat. From Redbull's perspective, it would allow them to get Gastly into F1 as planned.

Are they going to push Hamilton? I think, after they bed into the team, they should be there or there about. But l don't expect they would beat Hamilton over a reliability free season.

[airshifter]

I think I'd have to put my money on Bottas at the moment. With the rules changes for the year, Merc can't be sure they remain dominant, and I think having a driver with more development time would have to be a consideration at this point. Being that Williams has slipped a little I think the buyout/engine deals/whatever to negotiate might be fairly easy for Mercedes.

But I guess it all depends on whether Mercedes is looking at the short game or the long game. As long as they keep Lewis they have a couple years at least to roll the dice on one of the young guns, and it looks like Pascal is likely the candidate.





As for Alonso, Seb, Kimi, JV, Max..... probably just as much chance I get the ride IMO. :laugh:

[Bagwan]

According to Saward , Bottas cannot be pried from the seat due to sponsor obligations the team has .

[Nitrodaze]

According to Saward , Bottas cannot be pried from the seat due to sponsor obligations the team has .

I can see how that would complicate things further for the Bottas angle. It kind of leaves the option very narrow for Mercedes doesn't it? This puts Wehrlein back in pole position for this seat. Chances are they would run a good stopgap driver for 2017 and then deal with the situation properly when the 2018 driver market open for business.

In which case, they may experiment with Wehrlein, pull Button out of retirement; if Mclaren would let him of course, give Di Resta a chance or look outside the Mercedes family at the likes of Verne, Nasr, Buemi etc. I think they may pick from within the Mercedes crop of drivers. Hence this may well be a toss up between Wehrlein and Di Resta. It would be great though to see Button alongside Hamilton again.

[Rollo]

As I understand it, the state of play is this:

Mercedes
X - ???
44 - Hamilton

Red Bull-TAG
3 - Ricciardo
33 - Verstappen

Ferrari
5 - Vettel
7 - Raikkonen

Force India-Mercedes
11 - Perez
31 - Ocon

Williams-Mercedes
77 - Bottas
18 - Stroll

McLaren-Honda
14 - Alonso
2 - Vandoorne

Toro Rosso-Ferrari
26 - Kyvat
55 - Sainz

Haas-Ferrari
8 - Grosjean
20 - Magnussen

Renault
27 - Hulkenburg
30 - Palmer

Sauber-Ferrari
9 - Ericsson
X - ???

Manor-Mercedes
X - ???
X - ???

There just aren't that many drivers out there who are free. Apart from Kobayashi, Piquet, Buemi and Nakajima, who is left that wouldn't require serious contract negotiation? Formula E is littered with has beens and scraping the barrel of GP2 is a gamble.

[Stan Reid]

Well wiith an eye on marketing, they could raid IndyCar for good young drivers like the already licensed Alexander Rossi or Josef Newgarden or, if they really want to go off the main floor, a hotshot newby in Nascar like Chase Elliott or Kyle Larson.

[gm99]

Well wiith an eye on marketing, they could raid IndyCar for good young drivers like the already licensed Alexander Rossi or Josef Newgarden or, if they really want to go off the main floor, a hotshot newby in Nascar like Chase Elliott or Kyle Larson.

Of course, Mercedes are going to give the F1 world champion's car to a driver who has little or no single seater experience (Elliott; Larson).
Outside of the Indy Car community (which unfortunately is very small), hardly anyone has ever heard of Newgarden, so I don't see any big marketing potential there.
Rossi of course has already driven in F1, but not really done as well as Wehrlein in comperable machinery, so why go for him and not the one who is already under contract to Mercedes (and has done simulator work for them)?
Besides, considering how "well" drivers coming from Indy/Champ Car have done in the past (Michael Andretti, Zanardi, Da Matta; Montoya doesn't really count because he was only parked in CART for two seasons before a Williams drive became available), I highly doubt Mercedes are going to waste many a thought on that possibility.

[Zico]

Williams reject initial offer for Botas which includes Wehrlein and engine cost reduction... Paddy Lowe to Williams.... and James Allison to Mercedes?


Wow!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38282791

[Nitrodaze]

Williams reject initial offer for Botas which includes Wehrlein and engine cost reduction... Paddy Lowe to Williams.... and James Allison to Mercedes?


Wow!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38282791

I am not surprised about Lowe leaving Mercedes. There has been plenty signs that he and Toto are not quite aligned on a number of things. You could also attribute most of Mercedes' poor reliability in 2016 and possibly the last three years to Lowe; as Director of the technical side of the Mercedes team this was his responsibilities. Hamilton's technical issues which included two engine failures, happened on his watch. Looking inwards from the outside, one would guess that he has underperformed really. Hence, l am not surprised that Mercedes are talking to Alison as a replacement for him. It is also interesting that Mclaren were quick to state that they were not interested in Lowe. That said, Lowe would be great for Williams as he brings tons of experience from working with Mercedes with him.

I would be surprised that Williams would risk their 2017 campaign by releasing Bottas. It is interesting that Di Resta is not getting any mention at all in all this. Mercedes may have to go with their rookie Wehrlein and hope for the best. I am not sure why Mercedes lack confidence in Wehrlein, especially seeing how well Verstapenn and Sainz are doing. They probably do not rate their rookie as highly as Verstapenn and Sainz.

[AndyL]

Giovanazzi has been pretty impressive in GP2 this year. If Wehrlein is not ready for a top seat, Giovanazzi is surely not either, but I think he is available: earlier in the year his manager was expressing bafflement that no F1 teams had expressed any interest in his driver despite 5 wins in his rookie GP2 year.

[Nitrodaze]

Giovanazzi has been pretty impressive in GP2 this year. If Wehrlein is not ready for a top seat, Giovanazzi is surely not either, but I think he is available: earlier in the year his manager was expressing bafflement that no F1 teams had expressed any interest in his driver despite 5 wins in his rookie GP2 year.

I doubt Mercedes would give Giovanazzi a look when they have more accomplished rookies in Wehrlein and Ocon to consider. When he wins the GP2 title, then maybe.

[Bagwan]

I am ready to drive for them , and will work for considerably less than $45 million for the next two years .
PM me Merc .
I manage myself .

[Starter]

I am ready to drive for them , and will work for considerably less than $45 million for the next two years .
PM me Merc .
I manage myself .
Dear Bagwan,
We accept your kind offer to drive for us. We will provide all of your equipment except attitude - in the past all of our drivers have supplied their own. Please report to our facility to be fitted for a seat the first Monday after hell freezes over.
Signed, Toto


:D :D :D

[Nitrodaze]

I am ready to drive for them , and will work for considerably less than $45 million for the next two years .
PM me Merc .
I manage myself .

I am happy to give you an excellent character reference and supply your helmets to your design specifications for the next three years free of charge if you are successful.

[Rollo]

Please report to our facility to be fitted for a seat the first Monday after hell freezes over.
Signed, Toto


:D :D :D

Leicester City has already won the Premier League. The Cronulla Sharks won the Australian Rugby League. The Western Bulldogs won the Australian Rules Football League. The Chicago Cubs won the World Series. Donald Trump won the US Presidency.

Hell has already frozen solid. Satan currently ice skates to work.

[COD]

Some rumours suggest, that Williams have asked if Massa is willing to drive one more year. If he is, they could sell Bottas to Merc

[Koz]

Some rumours suggest, that Williams have asked if Massa is willing to drive one more year. If he is, they could sell Bottas to Merc

What a terrible, terrible thing.

We need new blood in F1, not hasbeens like Massa and Button (or for that matter Kimi).
Look at what Vestrappen (and Ricciardo in the last few years) have done. Would we be better off if Weber was around? What about Rubens, how many years did he waste?

They are just making up the numbers, brining nothing except maybe consistency, I guess that's what teams need at the end of the day, but it sucks for the sport.

Where's the fire, that pounce, that the new blood brings in?


Ok, I'll take all that back, give me Kobayashi!

[I am evil Homer]

What a terrible, terrible thing.

We need new blood in F1, not hasbeens like Massa and Button (or for that matter Kimi).
Look at what Vestrappen (and Ricciardo in the last few years) have done. Would we be better off if Weber was around? What about Rubens, how many years did he waste?

They are just making up the numbers, brining nothing except maybe consistency, I guess that's what teams need at the end of the day, but it sucks for the sport.

Where's the fire, that pounce, that the new blood brings in?


Ok, I'll take all that back, give me Kobayashi!

Well apparently with Martini as a team backer, they require at least driver over the age of 25 for promotioanl purposes, so if Bottas goes they need an older driver.

[Nitrodaze]

Some rumours suggest, that Williams have asked if Massa is willing to drive one more year. If he is, they could sell Bottas to Merc

Actually it is not a bad idea at all. I love to see what Bottas can do in a championship winning car. Massa has got one more year in him if he can be persuaded to return. Not looking forward to his farewell cry again but he would score good points for Williams next year. Personally, l would have thought they would go with Di Resta who is good enough to put the williams in the points regularly.

[yodasarmpit]

Some rumours suggest, that Williams have asked if Massa is willing to drive one more year. If he is, they could sell Bottas to Merc

Massa was finished following his accident. There are far better options than Massa, in fact pretty much anyone on the grid would be a match or better.

[The Black Knight]

Massa was finished following his accident. There are far better options than Massa, in fact pretty much anyone on the grid would be a match or better.

The problems I have with a return of the Jesse is listening to him moan when the going gets tough for another year. Tat and listening to F1 journalists say he was world champion for 30 seconds in 2008 which is a load of cock as he was never world champion and once you are world champion it can never be taken away from you.

I was very glad to see him retire. His seat has been wasted in F1 for years now and anyone would be a better choice than him.

[Koz]

Well apparently with Martini as a team backer, they require at least driver over the age of 25 for promotioanl purposes, so if Bottas goes they need an older driver.

JEV, Paul Di Reista or Gutierrez?

[acescribe]

In Massa I cannot believe the backward thinking in trying to tempt a driver who is/was past his best and made a very public retirement out of retirement.

I believe the fact that their Martini sponsorship means that they require at least one driver over 25 years old. 25!!!

Paul Di Resta would be faster than Massa as indeed would a whole host of others. A 2017 Massa-Stroll line up would see them well in the midfield I'm afraid.

[AndyL]

Well apparently with Martini as a team backer, they require at least driver over the age of 25 for promotioanl purposes, so if Bottas goes they need an older driver.

I can definitely see Button in a Martini ad.

[The Black Knight]

Would love to see DiResta back. He would be a vastly better choice than Massa any day of the week.

I still don't understand why he lost his seat to begin with.

[Rollo]

Ok, I'll take all that back, give me Kobayashi!

He was five minutes away from winning Le Mans this year... FIVE MINUTES!

[zako85]

I can definitely see Button in a Martini ad.

Or Barrichello

[onemanband]

He was five minutes away from winning Le Mans this year... FIVE MINUTES!

I think that was the other Toyota car.

[Nitrodaze]

Would love to see DiResta back. He would be a vastly better choice than Massa any day of the week.

I still don't understand why he lost his seat to begin with.

I think Di Resta not having competitive experience in the current spec of F1 cars may be the reason Williams is hesitant to put him in the car. The simulator is no substitute for a full on tarmac racing weekend. He has been out for too long as well and there has been a number of car spec changes since he lasted raced in anger. A problem shared by Verne, Buemi and Kobayashi etc

But l think he would be competitive given the chance, as least as close to, if not better than Massa's recent performance in the 2016 season.

[The Black Knight]

I think Di Resta not having competitive experience in the current spec of F1 cars may be the reason Williams is hesitant to put him in the car. The simulator is no substitute for a full on tarmac racing weekend. He has been out for too long as well and there has been a number of car spec changes since he lasted raced in anger. A problem shared by Verne, Buemi and Kobayashi etc

But l think he would be competitive given the chance, as least as close to, if not better than Massa's recent performance in the 2016 season.

If I were Massa and I harboured any hope of ever being world champion still then I would say to Totto Wolf I'd be willing to take the Mercedes seat for a year and see how it goes. That would solve Mercedes's problem and give them a reasonable number two for the time being and that way they need not provide any discount to Williams. Then if it didn't work out, Alonso is free for 2018.

[Starter]

I think Di Resta not having competitive experience in the current spec of F1 cars may be the reason Williams is hesitant to put him in the car. The simulator is no substitute for a full on tarmac racing weekend. He has been out for too long as well and there has been a number of car spec changes since he lasted raced in anger. A problem shared by Verne, Buemi and Kobayashi etc

But l think he would be competitive given the chance, as least as close to, if not better than Massa's recent performance in the 2016 season.
Good drivers do not need to be experienced in the current spec. They are either good or they are not and the really good ones can drive anything well.

[Nitrodaze]

Good drivers do not need to be experienced in the current spec. They are either good or they are not and the really good ones can drive anything well.

Maybe, but he would still need time to ramp up. He is not going to jump in the car and be just as fast as Massa straight away. That is too much pressure.

[Rollo]

I think that was the other Toyota car.

Yes. You are correct.

Kamui was in the 6 car which finished second. Either way, he's still the best option.

[Zico]

Mods, please kick this prik off here.

[pino]

He's gone ;)

[driveace]

I said on post 9 on this thread a while ago that Bottas would get the drive .
A Finnish friend of mine who know Bottas says he WILL get the drive .
Di resta,Davidson,Buemi and other suggested names wont stand a change in fact I think Wehlien will perform in the Merc far better than any of the suggested names

[Starter]

He's gone ;)
Thank you.

[The Black Knight]

I said on post 9 on this thread a while ago that Bottas would get the drive .
A Finnish friend of mine who know Bottas says he WILL get the drive .
Di resta,Davidson,Buemi and other suggested names wont stand a change in fact I think Wehlien will perform in the Merc far better than any of the suggested names

It all still depends on Massa retirement u-turn. Should Massa decide to stay in retirement Williams may be forced to keep Bottas or else Mercedes offer a bigger incentive to Williams.

[truefan72]

well, he just un-retired.
the person that seems hard done by is Wherlein.

So Bottas to mercedes, wherlein probably to sauber and i bet nasr to manor.
It is an odd number year so sauber should be good in 2017 lol

[The Black Knight]

well, he just un-retired.
the person that seems hard done by is Wherlein.

So Bottas to mercedes, wherlein probably to sauber and i bet nasr to manor.
It is an odd number year so sauber should be good in 2017 lol

Looks like that alright. I don't think Wherlein is hard done by. Given his results and attitude overall I think he should count himself lucky if he even gets to stay in F1 next season.

[Zico]

I wouldn't have brought Massa back.

I hope Williams have asked for full Merc works spec engines and ancillaries hardware/software and at reduced price as part of the deal.

[Nitrodaze]

I wouldn't have brought Massa back.

I hope Williams have asked for full Merc works spec engines and ancillaries hardware/software and at reduced price as part of the deal.

Massa was a lesser risk than any other option available at this time. It really makes good sense to go with what you know can deliver regular points. Besides, Massa as lead driver would be experiencing something he has never experienced before throughout his F1 career; being the number one driver. It is a huge responsibility which l think would inspire him to perform at his very best.

[gm99]

I think it's the wrong signal to bring Massa back. He had a dismal season in 2016 and I don't see how Wehrlein would have done worse (i.e. scoring almost 40 percent less points than his team-mate) in the Williams.
As for Massa never having been a number one driver before: Well, he probably wasn't brought into Williams as a number two to sophomore Bottas in 2014, was he?

[BigWorm]

I think it's the wrong signal to bring Massa back. He had a dismal season in 2016 and I don't see how Wehrlein would have done worse (i.e. scoring almost 40 percent less points than his team-mate) in the Williams.
As for Massa never having been a number one driver before: Well, he probably wasn't brought into Williams as a number two to sophomore Bottas in 2014, was he?

I think it would be the right decision. Stroll is 18, he might be fast but he doesn't necessarily need to be another Verstappen.

To combine him with Wehrlein it would be a risky move for Williams. For a team like Williams who wants to be beating the rest of the midfield you need to be scoring points regularly, with two very young drivers in a demanding sport like this it will be hard. You need a driver with experience like Massa for that, 2016 might have been dismal from him but the Williams car wasn't that great anyway. Obviously Bottas would have been the optimal choice but him probably going to Mercedes (who blames him?) Williams is going to need a constant points scorer like Massa.

Stroll and Wehrlein might show more pace, but rookies will make mistakes. In the long run will Massa will probably score more points, he knows how to keep it together during a whole weekend, and that's what matters.

[Koz]

Besides, Massa as lead driver would be experiencing something he has never experienced before throughout his F1 career; being the number one driver.

You mean besides 2008, 2009, and the past 3 years at Williams?

[Bagwan]

If they have convinced Felipe baby to come back , it should satisfy what they needed to fulfill the Stroll contract .
That is , an experienced team-mate .

On the surface , it's obvious that a safe pair of hands , who can develop the car when it's a new formula , and that will be essential .
But , I don't believe that's the only reason they want him .

And , it's not just because he's such a nice guy , or so well integrated into the team already either .

It's the fact that they've put too much into getting the young Canadian in and they don't want him matched against another rookie like Pascal .
If he does well against Massa , he'll have made a mark , and if he doesn't , he''ll be deemed to not have been expected to do any better against such a veteran .

But , beaten by another young gun could drop his value like a stone , especially in a "post-Max" world .

It seems like the future plans for Lance have been as detailed as his preparations to get to the big show .
Not going head to head with another rookie should lower the pressure on a high pressure , "you only got your seat because of your daddy's money" entrance to F1 .


I sure hope he can deliver , as he's a fellow Canadian , and it'd be nice to support a home boy again .

[N. Jones]

I wouldn't have brought Massa back.

I hope Williams have asked for full Merc works spec engines and ancillaries hardware/software and at reduced price as part of the deal.

You have to bring Phil back. WIlliams is near the sharp end of the grid and going into the season with two rookies/light experienced drivers is not going to help them bring in sponsors.

[Zico]

You have to bring Phil back. WIlliams is near the sharp end of the grid and going into the season with two rookies/light experienced drivers is not going to help them bring in sponsors.

I guess you're right.

I was a bit concerned that Phillipe's heart might not be fully in it, somewhat going through the motions again... which for me he already seemed to be doing after his accident. Maybe it's a bit harsh to say it but in recent years, I always felt that any fire he ever had was long gone.

The bigger picture is a substantial Merc bargaining opportunity worth millions on top of whatever sponsor agreements are in place as well as ensuring young Lance has a long established and very experienced Williams team mate to aid with his intro to F1.

Will Phillipe return ? He has had a long career in F1, I'm not sure I would have once I'd made the decision to bow out... unless of course he was always minded to continue and was just being pushed out by Stroll.

[anfield5]

Right from the off, Bottas has been Mercedes biggest (possibly only) target.
1. He is experienced and reliable
2. He is quick (given decent equipment)
3. He is laid back and cool, so he can cope with the BS from Hamilton
4. Williams is a merc team, so prising him away will be quite a simple task as Williams want to keep Merc happy
5. Massa will come back to keep and experienced driver alongside the rookie. Massa only retired because at the time Williams had signed Stroll and Bottas already had a contract. There was no (or very little) bad blood between Massa and the team

[N. Jones]

I guess you're right.

I was a bit concerned that Phillipe's heart might not be fully in it, somewhat going through the motions again... which for me he already seemed to be doing after his accident. Maybe it's a bit harsh to say it but in recent years, I always felt that any fire he ever had was long gone.

The bigger picture is a substantial Merc bargaining opportunity worth millions on top of whatever sponsor agreements are in place as well as ensuring young Lance has a long established and very experienced Williams team mate to aid with his intro to F1.

Will Phillipe return ? He has had a long career in F1, I'm not sure I would have once I'd made the decision to bow out... unless of course he was always minded to continue and was just being pushed out by Stroll.

A driver who has had a major accident is never as fast as he was before the accident. Pat Symonds said that and I agree. He can keep the car in the points and has the experience needed.

[Nitrodaze]

You mean besides 2008, 2009, and the past 3 years at Williams?

He was never considered a number one at anytime at Ferrari. He did well to nearly win a world title but to the team's mind, Raikonnen was their number one in 2008 and 2009, having won the driver's world title for Ferrari in 2007. He never really seized the lead driver status when he joined Williams for a number of reasons. Some outside his control and some due to mediocre performances on track relative to Bottas. For many, Massa never really regained his form after the incident that saw a spring from Barrichello's Brawn struck his head.

2017 would be a year where it is clear as day to him that he is expected to fulfill the role of lead driver. The main difference between Bottas' rookie year and the Stroll rookie year is that Bottas was reserve driver for a number of seasons for Williams before he landed his drive. He had loads of experience of the car before he got his seat as a main racing driver for Williams. Stroll on the other hand is coming to it with no real experience behind the wheel of the Williams or of a season of f1. He would need someone like Massa to learn from and the team need someone like Massa to assist with developing the car. Stroll would not be very useful as a source of key information initially. Feedback from Massa would be the most valued input to the team.

[Nitrodaze]

Right from the off, Bottas has been Mercedes biggest (possibly only) target.
1. He is experienced and reliable
2. He is quick (given decent equipment)
3. He is laid back and cool, so he can cope with the BS from Hamilton
4. Williams is a merc team, so prising him away will be quite a simple task as Williams want to keep Merc happy
5. Massa will come back to keep and experienced driver alongside the rookie. Massa only retired because at the time Williams had signed Stroll and Bottas already had a contract. There was no (or very little) bad blood between Massa and the team

Bottas is quick but not in the league of Hamilton as we would find out next season. He is not defensively strong as we have found a number of times last season. The Redbull drivers would not be too bother being behind Bottas even in a Mercedes because they know they can have him. He would get better as his partnership with Hamilton would be great for him. He would learn alot and see how Hamilton prepares his campaign for his driver title. Bottas would be learning the car and fitting into the Mercedes culture in 2017, hence much is not really expected from him besides ensuring that he tries to attain a second place behind Hamilton for a Mercedes one two.

In open market, Bottas may not be the first choice, that honor would go to either Alonso or Vettel. But in the circumstances, he is the best option above Wehrlein.

[Rollo]

But in the circumstances, he is the best option above Wehrlein.

Best option was Kobayashi - who did apply.

Mercedes have settled for second best.

[Nitrodaze]

Best option was Kobayashi - who did apply.

Mercedes have settled for second best.

Kobayashi was looking good at Le Mans. But he didn't win it did he. It doesn't matter what the reason was [as it does matter what the reason was why Hamilton lost the 2016 title to Rosberg], mind you. Besides, he does not have recent experience of the hybrid cars. He never raced in the hybrid era of f1, hence like Di Resta, he is at a disadvantage to Bottas who has recent hybrid experience. In Di Resta's case to Massa. These small things make alot of difference.

[Nitrodaze]

well, he just un-retired.
the person that seems hard done by is Wherlein.

I fear the aftermath of the 2016 season could dampen Wehrleins racing spirit. Being passed over twice can have a negative psychological effect on a driver. I hope he has a strong head to cope with these setbacks. It is beginning to look like Wehrlein's future is not in Mercedes. Like Sainz, he has to bide his time in the sidelines and see what the future holds for him in 2018, assuming he can find a seat in 2017. I guess 2017 is a very important year for Wehrlein, he must raise his game and improve his ability to work with his team more effectively.

That said, Force India was probably the wrong place for him to improve his talent. He wouldn't do well in a team that does not appreciate his potential properly. However, missing out on the Rosberg seat would certainly haunt him all season.

[Rollo]

He never raced in the hybrid era of f1, hence like Di Resta, he is at a disadvantage to Bottas who has recent hybrid experience.

Yeah, the Toyota TS050 Hybrid probably isn't a hybrid.

[Nitrodaze]

Yeah, the Toyota TS050 Hybrid probably isn't a hybrid.

Not an F1 Spec hybrid car is what l mean.

[Nitrodaze]

So we are entering our third week of January and Mercedes is still thinking about who their replacement for Rosberg would be. Most people suggests that it would be Bottas, but it is looking like Mercedes may be having second thoughts with the delay to announce him as their choice.
Gerhard Berger was quoted recently saying he thinks Mercedes should go with Werhlein. Some in Redbull thinks Mercedes do not have the balls to risk taking up a rookie as they have done with Verstapenn. Whatever the case, l wonder if there is a surprise twist to this story about to unfold in the following weeks?

[Tazio]

According to Claire Williams:
"We need to make sure that if we are to release Valtteri, we have the best credible option to replace him with but also put in the best structure that supports that moving forward. I wish I could announce who it was, but we are still crossing the Ts and dotting the Is at the moment with all of the contracts. We will be making an announcement shortly because we are testing soon and we all want to know who's going to be driving for us."

"We pay for our engines," she continued, "we pay on time for our engines and therefore they don't have any right to come to us and say, 'you need to release this driver for us'. If I decided not to release Valtteri, then Mercedes (http://www.pitpass.com/teams/7/mercedes) would be fine and say 'no problem, thank you for thinking about it'."

Translation, the deal is done, we're just not sure Felipe is a desirable replacement.
Maybe they are trying to plug Jense into that seat! :eek:

[AndyL]

Maybe they are trying to plug Jense into that seat! :eek:

I find it hard to imagine, given that he seemed happy to be going retirement, and he still has some sort of contract with McLaren. But crazier things have happened. Maybe he could be tempted by the chance to top the list of most Grand Prix starts, which he would with another full season.

[pantealex]

Bo77as confirmed.

[The Black Knight]

The worst kept secret in F1 announced

[Tazio]

Ok it's official! Now I'll be interested to see if Bottas is allowed to go all Rosberg on The Boss' ass! ;)

[Storm]

Boring for boring I guess...... Toto got his wish (and his fee) ;)

[journeyman racer]

Bottas will have the same weakness Rosberg had in 14. Despite his experience in F1. He doesn't have running-at-the-front-in-F1 experience. This is different to just being in F1. He has a car that will be good enough. Unlike with Maldonado and Massa, Hamilton will expose weaknesses he'll have.

He'll have a challenging year ahead regardless. His reputation will be built from his 2nd year.

[AndyL]

Valtteri has got into a seat that most drivers on the grid would sell their grandmothers for. Congratulations to him. Currently his F1 record stands at 0 pole positions and 0 wins. He now has a great chance to change those numbers. How many do we think he'll get?

[The Black Knight]

Valtteri has got into a seat that most drivers on the grid would sell their grandmothers for. Congratulations to him. Currently his F1 record stands at 0 pole positions and 0 wins. He now has a great chance to change those numbers. How many do we think he'll get?

He'll get some wins and I expect he'll be reasonably close to Hamilton. I think he'll get closer to him throughout the season. Don't know about wins and pole positions as that completely depends on the car Mercedes provide the two. I'd suspect Hamilton will win one or two GP's regardless and grab one or two poles. I'm not so sure about Bottas and how he'll do out the front of the grid but I suspect he'll do okay just not spectacularly.

[Zico]

He'll get some wins and I expect he'll be reasonably close to Hamilton. I think he'll get closer to him throughout the season. Don't know about wins and pole positions as that completely depends on the car Mercedes provide the two. I'd suspect Hamilton will win one or two GP's regardless and grab one or two poles. I'm not so sure about Bottas and how he'll do out the front of the grid but I suspect he'll do okay just not spectacularly.


I think Valteri will do just fine but I am not convinced that Merc will necessarily be the best car in 2017. The last time we had big car spec changes it helped a team dominate and now we have another big car Aero/grip change that may well shift the balance. You'd think that this should reward Red Bull more than the others but isn't it about Ferrari's turn to dominate for a spell?

Not even pre-season testing yet but I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that Ferrari or RB are probably going to win the manufacturers title next year... based on nothing other than a hunch... and a hunch based on nothing other than a sense of the Regulation 'winds of change'. ;)

[Starter]

Not even pre-season testing yet but I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that Ferrari or RB are probably going to win the manufacturers title next year... based on nothing other than a hunch... and a hunch based on nothing other than a sense of the Regulation 'winds of change'. ;)
Yes there will be a big change next year. Haas will be constructor's champion and Grosjean World Champ. You heard it here first.







(I'm pretty sure someone put something strange in my coffee this morning.) :eek:

[Rollo]

Yes there will be a big change next year. Haas will be constructor's champion and Grosjean World Champ. You heard it here first.

(I'm pretty sure someone put something strange in my coffee this morning.) :eek:

That's as insane an idea as saying that next year, Michael Schumacher will win the World Championship.

- posted from my Nokia 1011, Telecom Australia 2G network, 12 Apr 1993

[Zico]

Yes there will be a big change next year. Haas will be constructor's champion and Grosjean World Champ. You heard it here first.







(I'm pretty sure someone put something strange in my coffee this morning.) :eek:


Nah, You've taken it too far. ;)

Hey, nothing wrong with wishful thinking :D... and last year before pre-season, I did predict on this forum that 2016 was gonna be Rosbergs championship... and... :o

[The Black Knight]

I think Valteri will do just fine but I am not convinced that Merc will necessarily be the best car in 2017. The last time we had big car spec changes it helped a team dominate and now we have another big car Aero/grip change that may well shift the balance. You'd think that this should reward Red Bull more than the others but isn't it about Ferrari's turn to dominate for a spell?

Not even pre-season testing yet but I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that Ferrari or RB are probably going to win the manufacturers title next year... based on nothing other than a hunch... and a hunch based on nothing other than a sense of the Regulation 'winds of change'. ;)

I just can't see Ferrari dominating in the current political climate. It needs restructuring. It's possible they may fluke it and come up with an Great car but I find I highly unlikely given the negative environment which currently exists there. Ratatouille needs to go and I don't think Machionne sitting in on engineering briefings helps anyone either. Next year will be either Mercedes or Red Bull. Mind you, the departure of Lowe from Mercedes may have a long term affect before James Allison comes on board and gets up to speed. Mercedes had the best chassis and Engine over the last three years. Whether or not that continues vet much depends on the impact of Lowe's departure.

[Zico]

I just can't see Ferrari dominating in the current political climate. It needs restructuring. It's possible they may fluke it and come up with an Great car but I find I highly unlikely given the negative environment which currently exists there. Ratatouille needs to go and I don't think Machionne sitting in on engineering briefings helps anyone either. Next year will be either Mercedes or Red Bull. Mind you, the departure of Lowe from Mercedes may have a long term affect before James Allison comes on board and gets up to speed. Mercedes had the best chassis and Engine over the last three years. Whether or not that continues vet much depends on the impact of Lowe's departure.



I'm just getting a gut feeling that the powers that be are trying to reduce the Merc advantage and the cynical side of me thinks it might even be someone else's turn.

Yes, you are probably right... and in my mind this seasons new regs look to be playing directly into Red Bulls's area of expertise. The first of Max's WDC's? :O

Just really hoping that we see a lot closer competition between the top 3 teams than what we have had in recent years.

[Mia 01]

I´m glad that Bottas only got a one year contract. This means that Mercedes are after Vettel WHOs contract is up at the end of this year, This means that Kimi will drive for Ferrari 2018 (likely).

[Mia 01]

And, the choice of Bottas will hand Lewis one Moore WDC easy this year, boring.

[Bagwan]

And, the choice of Bottas will hand Lewis one Moore WDC easy this year, boring.

Hey , Mia , who knows ?
Maybe the reds will get it right and Kimi will have another championship in his pocket after the end of this season .

That would also guarantee 2018 , wouldn't it ?

[easy rider]

And, the choice of Bottas will hand Lewis one Moore WDC easy this year, boring.

Not if you're a Lewis fan.

[easy rider]

Hoping that Newey can work his magic, to enable that terror from Holland to give Mercedes a fit.

[anfield5]

I think many of you are underestimating Bottas, just like Button was supposed to have been dominated by the over-rated one when he moved to McLaren, that didn't happen, and JB more than held his own. In a good car where Bottas isn't having to defend for his life, the quality he showed at times for Williams will come to the fore.

[Tazio]

Hoping that Newey can work his magic, to enable that terror from Holland to give Mercedes a fit.Don't discount the Honey Badger. I suspect him and Max will have a real battle royale at RB.

Hey , Mia , who knows ?
Maybe the reds will get it right and Kimi will have another championship in his pocket after the end of this season .

That would also guarantee 2018 , wouldn't it ?
Well Baggie anything can happen, but I suspect Mia's first scenario has a higher degree of probability, even though I don't suspect that Bottas will lose his seat. Ferrari will be third best in 2017, Kimi finishing 5th-7th.

[airshifter]

I wouldn't be shocked if Bottas gives a decent challenge to Lewis, especially since we have some rules changes that will impact the cars. He seems like he is fairly cool dealing with pressure, and considering he has been fighting with a less than great car lately at Williams, has done well. Lewis has really only had to fight with Nico the last couple of years.

The same applies to car ranking. If Ferrari gets it right, and/or if Mercedes and/or Redbull get it wrong with the rules changes, just about anything can happen in 2017. Kimi, Seb, Max, and Daniel are all capable of winning in the right car IMO. And I think Bottas is as well.

[Bagwan]

Don't discount the Honey Badger. I suspect him and Max will have a real battle royale at RB.

Well Baggie anything can happen, but I suspect Mia's first scenario has a higher degree of probability, even though I don't suspect that Bottas will lose his seat. Ferrari will be third best in 2017, Kimi finishing 5th-7th.

Just reminding her that maybe he's better than she seems to imply when she says that his only chance is if Seb leaves , Taz .

It is , with the formula changing , a real possibility that we could see two Finns fighting to finish first , though .

[easy rider]

[QUOTE=Tazio;1122616]Don't discount the Honey Badger. I suspect him and Max will have a real battle royale at RB.[QUOTE]

I can't argue with you regarding the Honey Badger, because Daniel no doubt is right on that top shelf, amongst current F1 drivers. It should be highly entertaining for us fans, to watch Daniel and Max going at it.

[Tazio]

Just reminding her that maybe he's better than she seems to imply when she says that his only chance is if Seb leaves , Taz .

It is , with the formula changing , a real possibility that we could see two Finns fighting to finish first , though .Anything is possible, but I don't see Ferrari being as strong as Merc or even RB. I guess we'll see!

[Bagwan]

Anything is possible, but I don't see Ferrari being as strong as Merc or even RB. I guess we'll see!

It looks like a long shot , but even a broken clock is right twice a day .

I'd like to see a Canadian doing well , actually , Taz man .
So , I'm hoping that Willy gets it right .

[Tazio]

It should be a good battle between Lance, and Felipe! :rolleyes:

[COD]

So, has Bottas now proved, that he deserved that drive?

[Triumph]

Bottas is doing very well so far. I think it would be hard to argue at the moment that he doesn't deserve his seat.