Nico Rosberg World Champion!

[Koz]

Nico Rosberg World Champion!

Congratulations!

[Zico]

Congratulations Nico!

[The Black Knight]

Yup, Mercedes managed to sabotage Hamilton enough to finally get their German World Champion throughout the course of the year.

But as I say, Rosberg was always good for a championship so am happy for him but it's sad for the sport that it happened that the best driver didn't win on this occasion.

[Zico]

Oh cmon show a bit of class.. or at least prove Merc sabotaged Lewis if you are going to throw out this accusation.

[N. Jones]

Congrats!

And remember.... I Predicted it:




And now for the team you have all been waiting for:

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We are going out on a serious limb with POSF1, because our lead driver is the man we believe will be the 2016 World Champion:

Nico Rosberg

HE will be supported by the up and coming driver

Rio Haryanto

They will be driving the team that will be most improved (if not I am REALLY going to be up S*&! creek!)
McLaren
McLaren-Honda

They drivers have stated that MONACO is their favorite place to race.
(Our reserve driver is Alexander Rossi)
Good luck (winning)!

[Greasy]

Well done Nico. Try and ignore the tin foil hat brigade.

[jas123f1]

Congratulations to Nico ! and the family "well deserved" and thanks to Keke too :)

[steveaki13]

Oh cmon show a bit of class.. or at least prove Merc sabotaged Lewis if you are going to throw out this accusation.

Quite

[steveaki13]

Well done Nico. Great solid job this season and fully deserved.

Great to see a new Champion

[steveaki13]

Just seen him talking about how tough that race was for him. Wow.... he earned that 2nd place and championship. Really likeable guy and pleased for him.

[henners88]

Well done Nico, he did just enough for much of the season to put himself in a winning position at the end. At least the pressure is off now and if his performance doesn't improve into next season he can be content with this achievement.

Nice to see both guys getting on again and expressing their respect for each other


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[The Black Knight]

Oh cmon show a bit of class.. or at least prove Merc sabotaged Lewis if you are going to throw out this accusation.

The evidence is there staring you straight in the face. If you brush aside incident after incident and put it down to just racing then that is your choice but, to me, there comes a point where you have to see why is really happening.

No driver gets all the reliability issues like Lewis did and his team mate get virtually none. Mercedes management body language towards Lewis in press conferences. From switching mechanics, to coming out with statements like our worst nightmare would be if reliability decided the title, even though, actually, that's what reliability did, RELIABILITY decided the title. It's in front of your eyes, all you have to do is open them and see it. Mercedes wanted their German champ and they got it the only way they could because they knew Nico was not good enough to beat Lewis over the course of a season. Nico won the title the only way Nico could have won the title with Lewis as team mate, with a lot of biased of help from his team.

And to be perfectly frank, it's people like yourself that believe the PR BS they spin which allow them to continue to get away with what they have done this year. Hopefully some day Lewis Hamilton will come out with what real happened this year and because it sure won't be the same as what has been spun to you by Totto. And Thursdays press conference with Nico and him showed that when they were asked about the mechanic switch.

[N4D13]

No driver gets all the reliability issues like Lewis did and his team mate get virtually none.
I ran the math for you a couple of weeks ago and proved you wrong. It's OK to be annoyed that your driver didn't really win the championship, but at least I'd appreciate it if you would stop throwing your toys out of the pram and making baseless accusations. It's not fair nor respectful to those of us who believe that Rosberg is a fine champion who's earned a deserved WDC by having done a better job than his teammate.

[The Black Knight]

I ran the math for you a couple of weeks ago and proved you wrong. It's OK to be annoyed that your driver didn't really win the championship, but at least I'd appreciate it if you would stop throwing your toys out of the pram and making baseless accusations. It's not fair nor respectful to some of us who believe that Rosberg is a fine champion who's earned a deserved WDC by having done a better job than his teammate.

Eh, you didn't prove me wrong in anything. I have a vague recollection of you proving you were gullible and believed any PR that was spun your way but other than that I don't believe you proved anything.

And I'd also appreciate it if you could open your eyes to the obvious and that is that Mercedes favored Rosberg. I know you like to believe that there is nothing but good will in life but sometimes there is more to the story and this is certainly one of those times.

As for me, I think Rosberg deserves a championship, but I also find it insulting to the and that Mercedes are getting away with what they have done this year. My issue isn't with Rosberg here, it is with Mercedes for how they have treated the general public like idiots and got away with it.

[N4D13]

Eh, you didn't prove me wrong in anything.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?37001-Is-Mercedes-fixing-the-2016-driver-chamionship&p=1108798&viewfull=1#post1108798 and the one two posts below.

[Mia 01]

Congrats to the WDC Nico, you deserved it!

[gm99]

Nice to see both guys getting on again and expressing their respect for each other


Getting on? Did you see the footage from the anteroom before the podium? They weren't even looking at each other, with Hamilton starring at the timing monitor as if he was learning the last lap times of every driver by heart down to the last decimal. DC basically forced them to acknowledge each other during the podium interviews.

[steveaki13]

I can't believe the toy throwing going on. Drivers have reliability issues and sometimes it's decided championships. Since every round was included in the championship in 1989? Reliability causes problems. Deal with it.

I probably just wanted Hamilton to win pre season but Rosberg has been brilliant in consistence and deserves his titles.

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[henners88]

I ran the math for you a couple of weeks ago and proved you wrong. It's OK to be annoyed that your driver didn't really win the championship, but at least I'd appreciate it if you would stop throwing your toys out of the pram and making baseless accusations. It's not fair nor respectful to those of us who believe that Rosberg is a fine champion who's earned a deserved WDC by having done a better job than his teammate.
I really don't understand how you can honestly say Nico has done a 'better' job than Hamilton this season? He's won less races and been completely outclassed for most of the season. He benefitted hugely by mechanical failures on Hamilton's car and held onto second spot consistently to maintain the advantage. That's not really doing a better job but being the best of the rest while riding a wave of luck. Well done to him for winning a world championship, but he's ended the season on track where he's been for most of it, in second place.

Getting on? Did you see the footage from the anteroom before the podium? They weren't even looking at each other, with Hamilton starring at the timing monitor as if he was learning the last lap times of every driver by heart down to the last decimal. DC basically forced them to acknowledge each other during the podium interviews.
I was talking more about the interview pre race where they were reminiscing about their childhood years and admitting they get on well despite difficult moments.

[Greasy]

There have been many occasions where people felt the best driver lost the championship, people have come up with various reasons why and whether it is to make themselves feel better or to justify their favourite drivers efforts, is part of the game. However, you can only drive based on the points system in place and that is what Nico has done, he didn't have to go all out to win the final races and if you want to win a championship you have to see the bigger picture. Hamilton has been faster and I imagine those botched starts will appear more important now but Nico did what was required and kept his cool and walks away a deserving champion.

[henners88]

There have been many occasions where people felt the best driver lost the championship, people have come up with various reasons why and whether it is to make themselves feel better or to justify their favourite drivers efforts, is part of the game. However, you can only drive based on the points system in place and that is what Nico has done, he didn't have to go all out to win the final races and if you want to win a championship you have to see the bigger picture. Hamilton has been faster and I imagine those botched starts will appear more important now but Nico did what was required and kept his cool and walks away a deserving champion.
I haven't shared my opinion to make myself feel better. I'm a fair weather Formula 1 fan who watches possibly less than a third of a season live these days. I've supported Lewis historically but am happy he's finished the season the way he did. On top, dominant and a multiple world champion who will need to carry his momentum into next season and hope the team give him better reliability in 2017. Finishing the season 5 points adrift of his world champion teammate despite finishing 3 less races is no mean feat. I don't need to state that to feel better, just be happy he's performed so well over the entire season bar 1 race where he underperformed.

You're right Nico kept his cool and did just enough, nothing spectacular or brave, just enough to maintain the advantage he was given. Like his father he wins the ultimate prize, just. Well done Nico :)

[Greasy]

My post wasn't aimed at you but yes I'm glad there was some sort of fight today, as for 'just' why risk more than required?

[henners88]

My post wasn't aimed at you but yes I'm glad there was some sort of fight today, as for 'just' why risk more than required?

The sensible thing was what Nico did and just kept out of trouble. He's enjoying the champagne based on that and he must be chuffed. The petrol head in me though would have liked him to really put himself in the fire and recover from being the number two driver that got lucky. It reminds me very much of Buttons WDC where he sat back and did just enough but will never be remembered as one of the dominant champions in history.

I just hope both are fired up next season and we can see good reliability and a close fight like we've seen in previous years. I enjoyed today's race and I just wish Hamilton had backed him up earlier in the race and give Nico some work to do and is some excitement.

[The Black Knight]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?37001-Is-Mercedes-fixing-the-2016-driver-chamionship&p=1108798&viewfull=1#post1108798 and the one two posts below.

Oh yes, I had meant to get back to that post and forgot. A 22.7% chance is too unlikely for it to be coincidence.

Plus you haven't taken into account the probability of all these happening at critical points in the weekend where they can inflict point scoring damage. For example, Nico lost 3 points on reliability. Hamilton lost at least 40 I think it would be fair to say, and that's being conservative.

Nico had some issues in Free practices, never in a race or critical juncture of a weekend where it cost him points barring Silverstone. Factor that into your math!

[Nitrodaze]

Oh yes, I had meant to get back to that post and forgot. A 22.7% chance is too unlikely for it to be coincidence.

Plus you haven't taken into account the probability of all these happening at critical points in the weekend where they can inflict point scoring damage. For example, Nico lost 3 points on reliability. Hamilton lost at least 40 I think it would be fair to say, and that's being conservative.

Nico had some issues in Free practices, never in a race or critical juncture of a weekend where it cost him points barring Silverstone. Factor that into your math!

I think we should not spoil this day for Rosberg. It is a Rosberg day, the day he joins an exclusive club of F1 world champions. He worked extremely hard, we have to say it was not easy for him to beat Hamilton even with the problems that Hamilton had. Hence Rosberg had to up his game to ensure that he was making the most of opportunities that presented themselves and ensure that he recovered when things did not quite go well for him.

He drove like a world champion since the last three races of 2015 and showed his determination to win the title. Now he has done it, l think we should be happy for him.

CONGRATULATION NICO ROSBERG F1 DRIVER CHAMPION OF 2016.

[Rollo]

Yup, Mercedes managed to sabotage Hamilton enough to finally get their German World Champion throughout the course of the year.

10 wins, 2 2nds and only two retirements, is hardly sabotage. The statistics prove very much otherwise.

I'm calling Shenanigans on you. Shenanigans Shenanigans!

[Storm]

Dull...I really hope somebody..anybody can make a better engine next year

[zako85]

What a bunch of rubbish. This is NOT my champion. If you agree with me, let's start organizing protests. It's time to smash some storefronts. The WDC scoring by points wasn't fair to Hamilton. If WDC was decided by a simple number of wins, the Hamilton would have been the champion because he won one whole race more than Rosberg. Besides, Vettel and Ferrari are already talking about demanding the WDC points recount because Rosberg may have earned some points by cheating in some of the races.

[steveaki13]

People are so soft. Hamilton did nothing wrong. He tried what he could but Rosberg was strong enough and won.

He deserves it hands down.

People need to get real about the whole thing. Everything is included in a championship and so most points win.

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[Rollo]

The WDC scoring by points wasn't fair to Hamilton. If WDC was decided by a simple number of wins, the Hamilton would have been the champion because he won one whole race more than Rosberg.

1956
4 - Moss def.
1 - Hawthorn

1983
4 - Prost def.
3 - Piquet

1987
6 - Mansell def.
3 - Piquet

There's three titles you're willing to dispute.

[AndyL]

What a bunch of rubbish. This is NOT my champion. If you agree with me, let's start organizing protests. It's time to smash some storefronts. The WDC scoring by points wasn't fair to Hamilton. If WDC was decided by a simple number of wins, the Hamilton would have been the champion because he won one whole race more than Rosberg.

Plus Felipe would have retired as a former World Champion :D

[Greasy]

1956
4 - Moss def.
1 - Hawthorn

1983
4 - Prost def.
3 - Piquet

1987
6 - Mansell def.
3 - Piquet

There's three titles you're willing to dispute.

Add Alan Jones in 1979, almost anybody in 1982, Andretti in 77, Clark in 67...

[jas123f1]

Yup, Mercedes managed to sabotage Hamilton enough to finally get their German World Champion throughout the course of the year.

But as I say, Rosberg was always good for a championship so am happy for him but it's sad for the sport that it happened that the best driver didn't win on this occasion.

No, if we do not look at the last four races, when Rosberg apparently not even tried to win then you can see that Rosberg actually won 8 times against Hamilton 6 .. He clearly is a worthy champion and that some of Hamilton fans have trouble to accept the final result is almost comical. :)

[Firstgear]

A superior work ethic can often overcome a bit of a deficit in natural talent.

Lewis, a couple of years ago you said you would claim Mercedes first title due to the hunger that you had, and Nico lacked because of his silver spoon upbringing. Well, after a couple of titles, you've lost that hunger. You thought you could hang with Justin Bieber during the week and win races on the weekend. After a number of poor starts, you finally realized that you'd have to put in a little more work - but you figured it out 5 points too late. I was hoping you'd pull it off, as I find you the more talented, exciting racer. I hope you give it 100% next year.

This year, work ethic has trumped talent.
Congrats Nico! Your superior commitment and dedication have paid off.

[keysersoze]

Certainly Nico is a talented driver and his championship should not be tainted.

But he is dirty--far dirtier than Lewis. His history before this season bears this out, but his behavior in Spain and Austria this year show the depths to which he will go to fight back against a driver who is clearly faster. People cast aspersions at Lewis for his driving at Abu Dhabi, but in my view it pales in comparison to Rosberg's tactics.

[henners88]

A superior work ethic can often overcome a bit of a deficit in natural talent.

Lewis, a couple of years ago you said you would claim Mercedes first title due to the hunger that you had, and Nico lacked because of his silver spoon upbringing. Well, after a couple of titles, you've lost that hunger. You thought you could hang with Justin Bieber during the week and win races on the weekend. After a number of poor starts, you finally realized that you'd have to put in a little more work - but you figured it out 5 points too late. I was hoping you'd pull it off, as I find you the more talented, exciting racer. I hope you give it 100% next year.

This year, work ethic has trumped talent.
Congrats Nico! Your superior commitment and dedication have paid off.
That's a bizarre assessment I have to say? I haven't seen any evidence of Hamilton's on track performance being compromised this season? In fact I think he's driven his best and Nico couldn't catch him in the latter part of the season. The fact he had to slow down in the last race to fall back with Nico and was 0.5secs a lap faster in Brazil suggests he too would have been a worthy champion. I think over the course of the season he performed better.


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[Nitrodaze]

That's a bizarre assessment I have to say? I haven't seen any evidence of Hamilton's on track performance being compromised this season? In fact I think he's driven his best and Nico couldn't catch him in the latter part of the season. The fact he had to slow down in the last race to fall back with Nico and was 0.5secs a lap faster in Brazil suggests he too would have been a worthy champion. I think over the course of the season he performed better.


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I am surprised you bothered to respond this bs really. The chap has no idea.

[Firstgear]

That's a bizarre assessment I have to say? I haven't seen any evidence of Hamilton's on track performance being compromised this season? In fact I think he's driven his best and Nico couldn't catch him in the latter part of the season. The fact he had to slow down in the last race to fall back with Nico and was 0.5secs a lap faster in Brazil suggests he too would have been a worthy champion. I think over the course of the season he performed better.


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Well, you haven't seen any evidence of his track performance being compromised because you only watched one third (according to yourself) of the season. Go back and watch the earlier races, where he almost consistently turns a pole into a third, fourth of fifth after the first lap because he hasn't figured out how to get his car off the line. Half way through the season he finally put in the work to figure it out. Then, as you say, in the latter part of the season Nico can't keep up with him. If he put in the work earlier, he could've won the WDC.

[Firstgear]

I am surprised you bothered to respond this bs really. The chap has no idea.
bs, eh? Really?
What did I say that was bs?
Are you saying Lewis didn't say he was hungrier than Nico?
Are you saying Lewis didn't go power surfing with Justin Bieber?
Are you saying Lewis didn't (finally) spend time in the simulator to figure how to fix his poor starts?

Oh - I see what you're saying: Mercedes stole it from Lewis. Ya, I like conspiracy theories too. I just don't buy this one.

[henners88]

Well, you haven't seen any evidence of his track performance being compromised because you only watched one third (according to yourself) of the season. Go back and watch the earlier races, where he almost consistently turns a pole into a third, fourth of fifth after the first lap because he hasn't figured out how to get his car off the line. Half way through the season he finally put in the work to figure it out. Then, as you say, in the latter part of the season Nico can't keep up with him. If he put in the work earlier, he could've won the WDC.
If I had time to go back and watch the races with a 5 week old baby at home I would. I've made sure I've read the race reports for the 15 races I've missed and it's rarely shown Hamilton to be poor apart from in Baku. The fact he finished 3 less races than Nico and only finished 5 points behind suggests on its own that he had a better season performance-wise. Had he not retired in just one race he would have tied the championship up by Mexico. That's pretty good going in my book.


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[Firstgear]

If I had time to go back and watch the races with a 5 week old baby at home I would. I've made sure I've read the race reports for the 15 races I've missed and it's rarely shown Hamilton to be poor apart from in Baku. The fact he finished 3 less races than Nico and only finished 5 points behind suggests on its own that he had a better season performance-wise. Had he not retired in just one race he would have tied the championship up by Mexico. That's pretty good going in my book.


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Congrats on the addition to your family!
Apart from his many poor starts for most of the season, I'd agree that he was the better driver. And he should be, because he's the more talented of the two. Maybe the race reports you read didn't mention how he managed to turn poles into (eventual) second places. That's something he could've fixed earlier in the season if he was willing to put in the work early enough. Even with his bad luck in terms of reliability this year, keeping ahead of Nico in just one of those races instead of dropping back and fighting to get second would've made the difference. The poor reliability is pretty much out of his control. Working harder to fix a weakness (in this case his poor starts) is something he has control over. I think he just let it slide, because like most of us, he thought the reliability issues would even out over a season and it wouldn't be important enough to make a difference. Well, this year it mattered.

[henners88]

Congrats on the addition to your family!
Apart from his many poor starts for most of the season, I'd agree that he was the better driver. And he should be, because he's the more talented of the two. Maybe the race reports you read didn't mention how he managed to turn poles into (eventual) second places. That's something he could've fixed earlier in the season if he was willing to put in the work early enough. Even with his bad luck in terms of reliability this year, keeping ahead of Nico in just one of those races instead of dropping back and fighting to get second would've made the difference. The poor reliability is pretty much out of his control. Working harder to fix a weakness (in this case his poor starts) is something he has control over. I think he just let it slide, because like most of us, he thought the reliability issues would even out over a season and it wouldn't be important enough to make a difference. Well, this year it mattered.
Thanks. Well he's learned the hard way, but in all honesty I think he'll be pretty positive heading into the winter break. He overcame his slight issue and ended the season winning more races and demonstrating the gulf in speed between the two. At least with 3 world titles he can afford to take this one on the chin. I'm sure Nico will be back stronger next season to dispel the opinion he is a lucky winner. I think next season could be a good one if this is considered.

I'll be quite honest though I have no evidence either way to prove that Lewis did or did not put any effort into overcoming his start issues. Did anybody within the team or paddock comment on this?


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[Firstgear]

I just remember reading (or was it commented on during one of the races) about two thirds through the season that he spent a considerable amount of time in the simulator trying to tackle the issue of his poor starts.

I just feel Lewis didn't reach his potential this year. I guess none of us truly reach our potential, but it's sad to see something slip away because of it.
I think he's learned a lesson and will come back stronger. With the change in formula and an eager teenager in the RB, I'm hoping for a really good season next year.

But enough about Lewis (for now) - Go celebrate your victory Nico - you earned it!

[henners88]

I just remember reading (or was it commented on during one of the races) about two thirds through the season that he spent a considerable amount of time in the simulator trying to tackle the issue of his poor starts.

I just feel Lewis didn't reach his potential this year. I guess none of us truly reach our potential, but it's sad to see something slip away because of it.
I think he's learned a lesson and will come back stronger. With the change in formula and an eager teenager in the RB, I'm hoping for a really good season next year.

But enough about Lewis (for now) - Go celebrate your victory Nico - you earned it!

June 5th 2016 is the first quarter of the season and even his engineers struggled to see what he was doing wrong hence why it was stated the issue wasn't a quick fix. He slammed the simulator saying he might as well be playing it on his PlayStation so I think the passion was there to get it sorted. Starts aside he never appeared to be lacking commitment even when going for gaps Nico was only too keen to close violently. I haven't written the season off as a poor performance as my impression is totally the opposite.

I'm sure Nico is celebrating his victory still. Hopefully Hamilton is already preparing his game for next season. If he gets those starts completely nailed, we could be in for a very boring 2017.

[Firstgear]

Well I remember seeing the poor starts, seeing pics of him power surfing, and some time later heard he was tackling the start issues in the simulator. I was taught work before play, so that's why my putting 2 + 2 together gave me the impression he wasn't in it as much as he could have been. Heck, go have your fun, but sort your problems first.
As far as a boring season if he gets the starts 100% nailed - I'm sure Mercedes will find a way to keep it interesting ;-)

[Nitrodaze]

bs, eh? Really?
What did I say that was bs?
Are you saying Lewis didn't say he was hungrier than Nico?
Are you saying Lewis didn't go power surfing with Justin Bieber?
Are you saying Lewis didn't (finally) spend time in the simulator to figure how to fix his poor starts?

Oh - I see what you're saying: Mercedes stole it from Lewis. Ya, I like conspiracy theories too. I just don't buy this one.

I am saying we do not have time for personal attacks on individuals. State what you did or did not like about what has happened and everyone would respect that. You do not have to agree with everyone in how you see things but do not expect us to put up with you making unfounded comments based on what appears to be a very poor understanding of events.

[anfield5]

Well done Nico. Only second World Champion son of a World Champion. Well deserved, it is hard to win a title with no team mate for support.

Please use the number 1 plate next season.

[Tazio]

Big ups to Nico for taking down "The Boss"
It's been another dull season with just one team in the fight.
Nico finished second to last in a two car championship, and the boss finished last.
Come on 2017! :dork:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JDkdc246QQ

[henners88]

Well done Nico. Only second World Champion son of a World Champion. Well deserved, it is hard to win a title with no team mate for support.

Please use the number 1 plate next season.

I'm sure he will, first time novelty and all that.


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[Nitrodaze]

Well done Nico. Only second World Champion son of a World Champion. Well deserved, it is hard to win a title with no team mate for support.

Please use the number 1 plate next season.

Hamilton did just that in 2008, 2014 and 2015. So did Vettel four times. Winning it without support of teammate is how it is properly done l think.

[Triumph]

Congratulations to Nico for his championship win. I'm really pleased for him. Lewis will undoubtedly be fighting right at the top next year, so he'll surely get another chance to win his fourth world championship.

I'm not sure if this has already been suggested by anyone else, but when Hamilton was backing up Rosberg etc, I got the impression that Vettel wasn't actually that desperate to get past Rosberg (despite what he said after the race).

My thoughts are that if Vettel got past Rosberg, and enabled Hamilton to win the championship (assuming Verstappen then took third place of course), that would enable Hamilton to match Vettel's four world titles, which I think Vettel would probably want to avoid happening. His sacrifice in this case was only really one place, and he still took a podium.

[Greasy]

That's what I said on the other race thread. Vettel (pot calling kettle) already said Hamilton was up to dirty tricks also...

[Zico]

That's what I said on the other race thread. Vettel (pot calling kettle) already said Hamilton was up to dirty tricks also...


Yes, I also thought the exact same. He was catching the leaders at a rate of a second a lap yet didn't even have a look never mind attempt it.
He (Seb) said that he thought about overtaking BOTH but allegedly didn't get the opportunity. I wouldn't mind another look at the facts, laptimes and footage but I suspect Seb wanted Nico to win the WDC for either (or both) of two possible reasons... and that's fair enough, I'd expect that and I'd probably do the same myself if I'm honest... but to accuse Lewis of dirty tricks is probably just a tad hypocritical to say the least.

[Triumph]

Not just me imagining things then. I watched the race again last night with a more critical eye, and still thought much the same. Vettel's two 'attempts' at overtaking Rosberg were to the outside, so not the greatest of prospects.

As for Lewis slowing down in an attempt to improve his chances for the championship, that's absolutely fine in my opinion. It's not as if he did anything really naughty like Michael Schumacher (and God knows how many others) would have done!

[AndyL]

Yes, I also thought the exact same. He was catching the leaders at a rate of a second a lap yet didn't even have a look never mind attempt it.
He (Seb) said that he thought about overtaking BOTH but allegedly didn't get the opportunity. I wouldn't mind another look at the facts, laptimes and footage but I suspect Seb wanted Nico to win the WDC for either (or both) of two possible reasons... and that's fair enough, I'd expect that and I'd probably do the same myself if I'm honest... but to accuse Lewis of dirty tricks is probably just a tad hypocritical to say the least.

If they were going so slow because of Hamilton's tactics, why didn't Rosberg pass Hamilton? Seems passing a Mercedes going at that speed was not so easy, even for someone in another Mercedes. That seems a more likely explanation for why Vettel couldn't pass Rosberg, than invoking conspiracy theories.

[Greasy]

If they were going so slow because of Hamilton's tactics, why didn't Rosberg pass Hamilton? Seems passing a Mercedes going at that speed was not so easy, even for someone in another Mercedes. That seems a more likely explanation for why Vettel couldn't pass Rosberg, than invoking conspiracy theories.

Rosberg had no need to go near Lewis and risk an accident or damage, as long as Nico had 3rd covered he could stay away, if Vettel had come closer he would have let him go.

[N4D13]

Regarding the "extreme imbalance" in reliability issues between Lewis' and Nico's side of the garage, here's an interesting fact: in 2015, Verstappen had two race-ending reliability issues, whereas Sainz got seven. That is actually a lot less likely than what's happened this year with the Mercedes drivers, but I don't recall having read anyone on this forum accusing STR of deliberately sabotaging one of their cars.

[Greasy]

Unfortunately the tin foil hat brigade won't accept your suggestion because its rational and suggests that Mercedes aren't committed to advertising their engine failings to a global audience deliberately in a method to sell cars.

[henners88]

I think any suggestion Mercedes manufactured the engine failures on Hamilton's car is total tripe. Sometimes people just get the bad luck and this season that fell to Lewis in Malaysia. He's moved on already judging by the nice things he's been saying about Nico. I'm looking forward now to 2017 and hoping the Red Bulls and Ferrari make a huge leap forward. Let's have a title fight with the best on the grid spanning a few teams please!!

[Tazio]

Let's have a title fight with the best on the grid spanning a few teams please!! Add McLaren to that list......please :dork:

[drive]

Maximum respect to @nico_rosberg for both his fine career and his decision to retire as world champion. And for taking everyone by surprise!
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/mercedes-amg-f1/amg-f1-news/amg-f1-article/a-dream-fulfilled-nico-rosberg-ends-his-racing-career/

[henners88]

He achieved his dream and won't have to face the media pressure of defending it next season. All the best to him, retired on a high.


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[N4D13]

I don't think Alonso will be replacing him at Mercedes, but wouldn't it be ironic that his departure left the door open for Jenson?

[Big Ben]

I don't think Alonso will be replacing him at Mercedes, but wouldn't it be ironic that his departure left the door open for Jenson?

I doubt that too. Mercedes doesn't seem to be the team that likes to have an Alonso and a Hamilton in their team at the same time. I believe they'd rather go for someone more comfortable for Hamilton.

[N4D13]

I doubt that too. Mercedes doesn't seem to be the team that likes to have an Alonso and a Hamilton in their team at the same time. I believe they'd rather go for someone more comfortable for Hamilton.
Yup. They don't really need two drivers who are WDC material, so I guess Wehrlein is their most logical choice - he'll hopefully mature into a solid #2. But if that fails and if I were amongst the top brass at Mercedes, I'd probably go for Sainz. The boy has talent, but I don't think he'll be as good as Lewis, of course. :)

[steveaki13]

Yes that worries me. That after all this we will let them race in 2014 and gradually getting less and less liberal in the races. I worry they will stick a youngster in who will not challenge Hamilton and he will win 18 of 21 races or something. That would kill the sport. If Mercedes had a car advantage as this season.

As luck would have it I expect Red Bull to be up there if not ahead of Mercedes with the rule changes. Hopefully Ferrari and Mclaren too. Then it will matter less.

[keysersoze]

With Red Bull having two top-line, proven drivers, I'd be very surprised if Mercedes promoted Pascal.

[steveaki13]

Ocon? He is very young but a Mercedes guy.

I would like to see another top driver.

[Greasy]

Hamiltons perfect chance to 'do a Senna' and prevent a decent driver having a chance in the team???

[Nitrodaze]

One chap nobody is even giving a thought to is Vandoorne. I think he would be a great replacement for Rosberg. He would fit well into the team and Toto likes him.

[Greasy]

1 year contract for Mercedes employee Di Resta until Alonso's able.

[henners88]

One chap nobody is even giving a thought to is Vandoorne. I think he would be a great replacement for Rosberg. He would fit well into the team and Toto likes him.

I thought he had been confirmed as Buttons replacement at McLaren for 2017?


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[driveace]

1 year contract for Mercedes employee Di Resta until Alonso's able.

What you taking ? Rosberg was dour or had no personality BUT neither has Paul di Resta ,he has NO charisma at all even though I own one of Paul di resta,s race suit signed by himself and it might go up in value if that happened I am sure we will see the cow jump over the moon first .Why do Mercedes NEED to wait for any other driver ? All the drivers (Well 60%) would give their right arm to drive that car

[Greasy]

What you taking ? Rosberg was dour or had no personality BUT neither has Paul di Resta ,he has NO charisma at all even though I own one of Paul di resta,s race suit signed by himself and it might go up in value if that happened I am sure we will see the cow jump over the moon first .Why do Mercedes NEED to wait for any other driver ? All the drivers (Well 60%) would give their right arm to drive that car

Quite simple really, they would take a single year contract so they could sort out a longer length deal with a proven driver, Di Resta is in the Merc family, DTM and Williams reserve and knows how to pedal well enough to be a number 2 until the proven champions are available and out of current contracts. Also, what are you taking thinking that charisma is in any way important in this situation???

[Nitrodaze]

I thought he had been confirmed as Buttons replacement at McLaren for 2017?


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In this quite unique situation, anything is possible. With Ron Dennis gone from Mclaren, l would not be surprised if the Mclaren drivers decide to head off as well.

[Nitrodaze]

1 year contract for Mercedes employee Di Resta until Alonso's able.

If Mercedes want a stop gap driver, they would give Wehrlein a chance to gain experience working with Hamilton. But you never know, Di resta may get the chance, but l really doubt it.

[Greasy]

We don't even know if its a partner for Hamilton yet ;)

[truefan72]

IMO Wehrlein gets the seat, if not him, i think DiResta gets a crack at the seat

[Nitrodaze]

We don't even know if its a partner for Hamilton yet ;)

Good point but it would be as surprising as Rosberg stopping, if Mercedes dumps their star driver. It depends on how pissed they are ofcourse.

[Greasy]

I reckon Lewis is much safer now Rosbergs retired, but I still think the team are pretty pissed off... Although they did have exactly the same crap to deal with last year.

[driveace]

We don't even know if its a partner for Hamilton yet ;)

Well Toto has stated that over 80% of the current drivers on the grid have called him since Rosbergs announcement.The two that hadnt were because they didnt have Toto,s number ,One was Kiki .
They all want to be in the Merc BUT as yet only Hamilton with a 3 year £100 million contract is in the winning seat ,can I see Di Resta getting the seat ? No ! AND why would you let someone in for 1 year to drive your car ,at present the best car on the grid and let him trot off after a year with all your Imformation
Can i see Alonso winning another world championship ? NO ,Not unless he is in a Merc.Maybe Honda will come good with Zac in charge Worse things have happened

[The Black Knight]

I reckon Lewis is much safer now Rosbergs retired, but I still think the team are pretty pissed off... Although they did have exactly the same crap to deal with last year.

Can you blame them for being pissed off? They gave the guy the best car on the grid for 3 years, gave him a WDC and then he turns his back on them. I'd be pretty pissed off if I were them as well and I'd contractually hold him to the letter and penalize him in whatever way I could as well.

Serves Mercedes right for favoring Rosberg this year anyway.

[Sub_Skoda]

Rallycross for Rosberg? http://www.lemagsportauto.com/formule-1-nico-rosberg-vers-dautres-sports/19937/

[Big Ben]

Can you blame them for being pissed off? They gave the guy the best car on the grid for 3 years, gave him a WDC and then he turns his back on them. I'd be pretty pissed off if I were them as well and I'd contractually hold him to the letter and penalize him in whatever way I could as well.

Serves Mercedes right for favoring Rosberg this year anyway.

So I guess it wasn't all a conspiracy from Mercedes to give
Rosberg a title before his retirement after all. You found yourself another theory that feats your anti Rosberg agenda, I see. Can't you just idolise Hamilton without constantly attacking his rival, even after his retirement?

[Nitrodaze]

Can you blame them for being pissed off? They gave the guy the best car on the grid for 3 years, gave him a WDC and then he turns his back on them. I'd be pretty pissed off if I were them as well and I'd contractually hold him to the letter and penalize him in whatever way I could as well.

Serves Mercedes right for favoring Rosberg this year anyway.
The season finale reflected the sort of season this has been and Mercedes had a hand in how the 2016 season has turned out. Personally, l did not think it was right for Mercedes to interfere in the race like they did. The team order only affirm in most people's mind that Mercedes desired the outcome of a Rosberg world champion. There is nothing wrong with that really, the team is entitled to favour whomever they want to favour. Afterall it is their money paying for the participation in the contest.

But Hamilton does not have to like it either.

[henners88]

Can you blame them for being pissed off? They gave the guy the best car on the grid for 3 years, gave him a WDC and then he turns his back on them. I'd be pretty pissed off if I were them as well and I'd contractually hold him to the letter and penalize him in whatever way I could as well.

Serves Mercedes right for favoring Rosberg this year anyway.
I've always supported Hamilton but saw absolutely nothing this year to suggest he wasn't given the same opportunities as Nico. He had some bad luck like Nico did in 2014 but that is motor racing. Lewis has also had his fair share of preferential treatment when it comes to calls too in the past but this season he was often far behind in the points.

I think he performed better than Nico this year, but the team often chose the driver who was ultimately going to have the better chance of winning the championship. His reliability issues meant that driver was Nico and he did every he needed to do to be a worthy champion.

Good luck Nico and thanks for the entertainment.


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[Starter]

They gave the guy the best car on the grid for 3 years, gave him a WDC and then he turns his back on them. I'd be pretty pissed off if I were them as well and I'd contractually hold him to the letter and penalize him in whatever way I could as well.
Gave him the title? I'm not a Nico fan, but he may have had a little something to do with it too.

[airshifter]

Well that all happened quick. Win the title, exit stage left.

But in the end he stuck with Mercedes, put his head down and got his WDC. A lot of great qualifying over the years, his own share of misfortune with reliability making a title fight harder some years, and it finally all came together for him. And I don't think any other driver can say they beat Schumacher every year they were driving for the same team. Granted that the returned from retirement MS might not have been as quick, but the fact that Nico beat him every year and rarely was topped by him in either qually or the race says quite a bit for driver skill.

I think Nico substantially upped his mental game this year, and seemed more down to earth and less shaken by the races where he was beaten by Lewis. Giving credit where due, and not letting it get into his head. I'm sure that season ending race shook him up some, but he kept his cool when Lewis tried backing him into the pack some and in the end got the job done.

Well done Nico.

[Tazio]

But Hamilton does not have to like it either. I wonder if "The Boss" isn't actually a little pissed off that he doesn't get a chance to whup the title out of Nico in 2017. If so I suspect it is just a passing thought, as Lewis has pretty much owned Nico. Personally I'm glad this duo has been broken up, I've grown weary of the drama.
Let the next soap opera begin!

[Nitrodaze]

I wonder if "The Boss" isn't actually a little pissed off that he doesn't get a chance to whup the title out of Nico in 2017. If so I suspect it is just a passing thought, as Lewis has pretty much owned Nico. Personally I'm glad this duo has been broken up, I've grown weary of the drama.
Let the next soap opera begin!

Quite right he is. I find it quite odd that Rosberg's exit is greeted with the acclaim of bravery. A brave decision they say. I really don't see it that way actually. There is nothing brave about not having the will to defend your title. It simply says he doesn't think he can defend it successfully, best to throw in the towel while ahead. There is no shame in that, and l agree it is commendable to know when you are done and to accept it. There is no big decision involved but a deep realization that one is done for the moment and coming to terms with that fact.

It is kind of the opposite to Button not quite coming to terms with the fact that it was time to move on. For him, it finally sunk in at the last race.

[journeyman racer]

Mathematically, Rosberg won the title the same way Hamilton won in 08. In that he benefitted from having no mechanical problems during the races to Hamilton's one. A crucial failure at that while leading a later season race in Malaysia with 15 laps to go.

In 08. Hamilton suffered no mechanical failures to Massa's three. In including a crucial later in the season race in in Hungary with 3 laps to go.

Hamilton scored 98.7% of Rosberg's score. In 08, Massa scored 98.97% of Hamilton's score.

Where there's also a similarity in that despite driving well, they weren't necessarily the best performed drivers overall relative to the cars the drove. They benefitted from driving better cars. As is, Ricciardo was the best driver this season, as was Kubica in 08.

[journeyman racer]

What happened to my post???

[journeyman racer]

This is a screenshot of my post, which I seem to have accidentally deleted. I was meat to say that if it was for generous runoff areas, Hamilton would've suffered a dnf at Britain and Mexico.

Eh. I'll just write it again.

I think deeper, objective analysis is needed to justify the merit of Rosberg's title win. At worst, he was second best to Ricciardo relative to the cars the drove. He was the best MB driver. He had control.

Sure, he didn't have a mechanical problem stop a race of his. But this s a list of some of the adversity he faced last season.

Clobbered by Hamilton in Spain.
Pushed off the track by Hamilton in Canada.
An unfair penalty for legitimately passing Verstappen in Germany (Albeit an unconventional move)
Clobbered by Vettel in Malaysia (Rosberg would've eventually inherited the lead and won had it not happened).
Shoved off track by Verstappen in Mexico.
Being asked to move over for Hamilton in Monaco. A huge factor, of many, that contributed to Hamilton's win.
Mechanical hindrances in Azerbaijan and Britain.

On the flipside. Despite how the stats look. Hamilton was mediocre last season. When you consider that the idea of the track is to stay within it, and you're supposed to do everything possible to avoid hitting another car. Hamilton...

Drove off track and blocked Ricciardo in Monaco.
Pushed Rosberg off track in Canada. Adversely affecting Rosberg's chances to even finish 2nd.
Drove off track in Britain.
Drove off track in Hungary.
Drove off track in Mexico.

In all these races. Hamilton won despite driving poorly. Penalties were warranted in Monaco and definitely in Canada. No question that without the generous runoff nowadays that allow drivers to get away with being sloppy, a dnf would've occurred in Britain and Mexico.

On top of that. Rosberg let Hamilton past in Monaco because the team told him to. With the championship being a serious possibility after Japan. Hamilton benefited from Rosberg pacing himself behind him from the rest of the season.

Despite all the adversity. Rosberg still won the title!

Rosberg was steady. Playing the percentages throughout the season. That's how he goes about it. He didn't drive off track. He didn't push anyone out. He kept his nose clean for almost the whole season. When he did get rough, he rightly served the "natural justice" which is lacking in F1 nowadays. Going from 2nd at the point of impact in Austria, to 4th.

Despite not being considered spectacularly fast. He set 6 fastest laps, which is double the next best. He set the most fastest laps despite having a reputation for not being fast. Despite not trying!

So with that in mind. Despite not being dominant. Rosberg was the best driver last season. His win is highly meritorious!

[Nitrodaze]

This is a screenshot of my post, which I seem to have accidentally deleted. I was meat to say that if it was for generous runoff areas, Hamilton would've suffered a dnf at Britain and Mexico.

Eh. I'll just write it again.

I think deeper, objective analysis is needed to justify the merit of Rosberg's title win. At worst, he was second best to Ricciardo relative to the cars the drove. He was the best MB driver. He had control.

Sure, he didn't have a mechanical problem stop a race of his. But this s a list of some of the adversity he faced last season.

Clobbered by Hamilton in Spain.
Pushed off the track by Hamilton in Canada.
An unfair penalty for legitimately passing Verstappen in Germany (Albeit an unconventional move)
Clobbered by Vettel in Malaysia (Rosberg would've eventually inherited the lead and won had it not happened).
Shoved off track by Verstappen in Mexico.
Being asked to move over for Hamilton in Monaco. A huge factor, of many, that contributed to Hamilton's win.
Mechanical hindrances in Azerbaijan and Britain.

On the flipside. Despite how the stats look. Hamilton was mediocre last season. When you consider that the idea of the track is to stay within it, and you're supposed to do everything possible to avoid hitting another car. Hamilton...

Drove off track and blocked Ricciardo in Monaco.
Pushed Rosberg off track in Canada. Adversely affecting Rosberg's chances to even finish 2nd.
Drove off track in Britain.
Drove off track in Hungary.
Drove off track in Mexico.

In all these races. Hamilton won despite driving poorly. Penalties were warranted in Monaco and definitely in Canada. No question that without the generous runoff nowadays that allow drivers to get away with being sloppy, a dnf would've occurred in Britain and Mexico.

On top of that. Rosberg let Hamilton past in Monaco because the team told him to. With the championship being a serious possibility after Japan. Hamilton benefited from Rosberg pacing himself behind him from the rest of the season.

Despite all the adversity. Rosberg still won the title!

Rosberg was steady. Playing the percentages throughout the season. That's how he goes about it. He didn't drive off track. He didn't push anyone out. He kept his nose clean for almost the whole season. When he did get rough, he rightly served the "natural justice" which is lacking in F1 nowadays. Going from 2nd at the point of impact in Austria, to 4th.

Despite not being considered spectacularly fast. He set 6 fastest laps, which is double the next best. He set the most fastest laps despite having a reputation for not being fast. Despite not trying!

So with that in mind. Despite not being dominant. Rosberg was the best driver last season. His win is highly meritorious!

You articulate well, unfortunately you have not been very objective and evenhanded in your analysis. There is more of an anti-Hamilton slant in your view of things. And an obvious pro-Ricciado hint therein.

The parallel between 2008 and 2016 is partially agreeable but with a small difference that the mechanical failures in question happened across two teams in 2008, as opposed to within the same team in 2016. It is a shame that you took the trouble to list Rosberg's adversities but did not do the same for Hamilton. The comparison of adversities would have shown that Hamilton was the best driver on the grid this year. That said, Rosberg drove a methodical season that allowed him to take advantage of Hamilton's woes. His approach of taking it one race at a time was very effective in helping him keep focus on systematically stepping towards the end goal of winning his first F1 Driver's Title. Rosberg deserved the title as he was there to seize it. However, he was helped by some very questionable Mercedes reliability on the Hamilton car, which was without doubt instrumental to making the driver title available to Rosberg in the first place.

On Ricciado, he was rattled by the arrival of Verstapenn and at times was abit desperate. That said, l would say that he should have had three wins to his name really but for some very dodgy happenings he only got one. Verstapenn did well enough to take the shine off Ricciado's performances. At least enough to make one ponder what the situation might have been if Verstapenn had started the 2016 season alongside Ricciado in the Redbull [as opposed to the Torro Rosso for the first four races], what the outcome might have been at the end of the season.

But this sort of thinking distracts from the outstanding season that Ricciado has had. He made very few mistakes and no DNFs. Verstapenn due to his relative immaturity racked up 3 DNFs which accounted for some of the gap between Ricciado's points to Verstapenn. It certainly makes for a mouth watering prospect for what the 2017 season have in stock for us with a slightly more experienced Verstapenn having a full season along side Ricciado. I think Ricciado would have to dig deep to keep the pesky dutchman behind in 2017.

I think Kimi was the other driver that really had an exceptional year and was deserving of at least one win. Ferrari pitwall did their best to ruin most of his strong showing this season.

[journeyman racer]

There's no anti Hamilton slant. He just wasn't that good in 2016.

Just to back up my point. Here's some more to think about.

In these last three seasons. Hamilton has scored 384, 381 and 380 points respectively. In effect, it's the same amount of points. However, it's not the same output.

In 2014, Hamilton scored 384pts in 16 of 19 completed races. (17 in you include Abu Dhabi double points race negating a dnf)

In 2015, he scored 382pts in 18/19 completed races.

In 2016, he scored 380pts in 19/21 completed races.

So in effect. Hamilton needed 3 and 1 extra races to produce the same output of his 14&15 titles. When you consider that Rosberg wasn't/didn't bother challenging for the races wins in order to claim the championship. Hamilton scored 100pts in the last four races. So his output throughout the year was much worse than his title wins, as opposed to the marginal difference the stats I showed you shows.

Rosberg on the other hand.

2014. 317 from 16/19 completed races.

2015. 322 from 17/19.

2016. 385 from 20/21.

It's clear that Rosberg raised his game. Even if he didn't dominate Hamilton.

I could list the adversity Hamilton suffered. But it wasn't as much as Rosberg. What was also clear is that throughout the season, Rosberg dealt with the adversity better than Hamilton. Particularly when they had common problems.

Overall, is Rosberg better than Hamilton? Nope.

Was Rosberg better in 2016 than Hamilton was in 2014 or 2015? Nope.

Was Rosberg better than Hamilton in 2016? Yes.

[Nitrodaze]

There's no anti Hamilton slant. He just wasn't that good in 2016.

Just to back up my point. Here's some more to think about.

In these last three seasons. Hamilton has scored 384, 381 and 380 points respectively. In effect, it's the same amount of points. However, it's not the same output.

In 2014, Hamilton scored 384pts in 16 of 19 completed races. (17 in you include Abu Dhabi double points race negating a dnf)

In 2015, he scored 382pts in 18/19 completed races.

In 2016, he scored 380pts in 19/21 completed races.

So in effect. Hamilton needed 3 and 1 extra races to produce the same output of his 14&15 titles. When you consider that Rosberg wasn't/didn't bother challenging for the races wins in order to claim the championship. Hamilton scored 100pts in the last four races. So his output throughout the year was much worse than his title wins, as opposed to the marginal difference the stats I showed you shows.

Rosberg on the other hand.

2014. 317 from 16/19 completed races.

2015. 322 from 17/19.

2016. 385 from 20/21.

It's clear that Rosberg raised his game. Even if he didn't dominate Hamilton.

I could list the adversity Hamilton suffered. But it wasn't as much as Rosberg. What was also clear is that throughout the season, Rosberg dealt with the adversity better than Hamilton. Particularly when they had common problems.

Overall, is Rosberg better than Hamilton? Nope.

Was Rosberg better in 2016 than Hamilton was in 2014 or 2015? Nope.

Was Rosberg better than Hamilton in 2016? Yes.

You have a very interesting perspective. I find it amusing that you think Rosberg was better than Hamilton in 2016. Considering Rosberg lost a forty something lead and was in danger of losing the championship before the Malaysia engine blowout for Hamilton. Then there is the sweeping year by year points comparison that did not take into consideration the respective length of each season which have a bearing on the relative outcomes.

Just to help you get your perspective straight, please have a look at http://grandprixrankings.com/compare/2016-f1/hamilton-versus-rosberg/


Yes you do have an anti-Hamilton slant to your views.

[journeyman racer]

You find it amusing because you have a prejudiced view. I have some more stats that reflect Rosberg's superior performance to Hamilton in 2016.

Here are the fastest lap stats for the MB drivers for the last three seasons.

2014

Hamilton - 7
Rosberg. - 5

2015

Hamilton - 8
Rosberg. - 5

2016

Rosberg. - 6
Hamilton - 3

Is there a common correlation with these stats elsewhere?

Objectively. Tell me how great Hamilton was this season, scoring only 3 fastest laps in a 21 race season driving the best car in the field?

Even in Malaysia. The blown engine may've denied Hamilton a win. But it was late in the race and he still could've set fastest lap. After all, he was in the best car. He always had a clear track as he was always leading. But in fact it was Rosberg who set fastest lap. Rosberg had a damaged car and was in traffic for a large portion of the race.

3 fastest laps. Best car in the field. 21 race season. Rosberg was better.

[Nitrodaze]

You find it amusing because you have a prejudiced view. I have some more stats that reflect Rosberg's superior performance to Hamilton in 2016.

Here are the fastest lap stats for the MB drivers for the last three seasons.

2014

Hamilton - 7
Rosberg. - 5

2015

Hamilton - 8
Rosberg. - 5

2016

Rosberg. - 6
Hamilton - 3

Is there a common correlation with these stats elsewhere?

Objectively. Tell me how great Hamilton was this season, scoring only 3 fastest laps in a 21 race season driving the best car in the field?

Even in Malaysia. The blown engine may've denied Hamilton a win. But it was late in the race and he still could've set fastest lap. After all, he was in the best car. He always had a clear track as he was always leading. But in fact it was Rosberg who set fastest lap. Rosberg had a damaged car and was in traffic for a large portion of the race.

3 fastest laps. Best car in the field. 21 race season. Rosberg was better.

Hamilton with fewer engine to play with would not be interested in doing fastest laps. Hamilton won all of his races driving as fast as he needed to, without taking too much life out of the engine in the process. Those stats of yours are not good indicator of performance. I am beginning to wonder if you watched all the races this season. Yes, Hamilton was in the best car with a wonky paddy engine.

[journeyman racer]

Nico Rosberg's title defence is more effective than your reasoning to diminish his season or to boost Hamilton's.

[Nitrodaze]

Nico Rosberg's title defence is more effective than your reasoning to diminish his season or to boost Hamilton's.

I have no intention of diminishing Rosberg's season, he drove like a champion and deserves the title.

[Zico]

I can't help thinking that If Hamilton had put even half the amount of effort and focus into 2016 (particularly the start) as Rosberg, he would have been WDC.

Too much hobnobbing with Hollywood A list celebs and emulating that lifestyle, relying more on his raw talent than hard work, which wasn't enough to circumvent a reliability differential from Rosberg.

Anyone else suspect likewise?

[Nitrodaze]

I can't help thinking that If Hamilton had put even half the amount of effort and focus into 2016 (particularly the start) as Rosberg, he would have been WDC.

Too much hobnobbing with Hollywood A list celebs and emulating that lifestyle, relying more on his raw talent than hard work, which wasn't enough to circumvent a reliability differential from Rosberg.

Anyone else suspect likewise?

I can't argue against that. I felt Hamilton took Rosberg for granted abit and paid the price. He was at times scrappy with his starts and appeared on occasions to have arrived at some weekends unprepared and slightly wornout from his life outside F1. But l do not think that was the reason why he lost the title to Rosberg. But you are right in that he did not build enough points buffer to adsorb any unforeseen eventualities or at least make sure that it would be more difficult for reliability issues to wreck his title chances.

That said, l have a deep feeling that it probably would not have made the slightest difference. The nature of the problems that afflicted Hamilton were very unusual to say the least.

[journeyman racer]

Your posts demonstrate a lack of clarity. Your opinions contradict one another. Therefore your opinions are diminished.

Either you acknowledge the relative strengths and and weaknesses of both Rosberg and Hamilton and conclude that one or the other is the best performed driver, or that the mechanical failure of Hamilton's in Malaysia is the sole factor preventing a Hamilton title win, therefore diminishing the merit of Rosberg's success?

Over the course of the season, the blown engine in Malaysia was not the most significant factor in deciding the title outcome. To demonstrate. These are the stats showing mechanical failures that occurred for Hamilton resulting in a dnf

2014 - 2
2015 - 1
2016 - 1

So Hamilton won the 14 & 15 titles despite an inferior reliability record compared to 16.

But that doesn't show the true picture. To knowledgeable racing fans, they are able to put Hamilton's engine failure in context. So here it goes.

Had the engine not blown. Hamilton would've won, and Rosberg would've finished 4th. That meant the adjusted title points would have Hamilton leading on 290pts to Rosberg's 285.

This obviously validates and pleases a Hamilton fan such as yourself. However, it doesn't take out the adversity suffered by Rosberg in the race.

Rosberg was plowed into by Vettel, adversely affecting his race. Had it not occured, he would've finished 2nd. Accounting for that, he would've been leading the title 291pts to Hamilton's 290.

The context in which Rosberg in particular would've applied himself for the rest of the season would've been different. After Japan, he "shut up shop" "parked the bus" to make sure of the title win. Considering he finished 2nd to Hamilton in the last 4 races, that's 24 extra points Hamilton gained on Rosberg unchallenged. These wins lack the merit of wins in previous years. The points gained make up for all but 1pt.

So in conclusion. Hamilton fans/Rosberg critics can only lament that Rosberg should've won the title by 4pts instead of 5.

[journeyman racer]

But that's not all here are some more stats that demonstrate Rosberg's superior performance this season.

Races where the winning driver made an error, but we're left unaffected due to generous runoff and favourable stewards judgements.

Hamilton. 5 of 10.
Rosberg. 0 of 9.

Hamilton was better than Rosberg in 2016? Yeah right! One or two errors maybe you can let slide. But 5 when Rosberg did not commit one error? Keep drinking the koolaid.

Here's more. Races where the driver adversely affected their teammates result.

Hamilton. 2
Rosberg. 0

Total amount of races affected by being clouted by another driver.

Rosberg. 4.
Hamilton. 1.

It's 5 for Rosberg if you include that Verstappen actually tagged Rosberg in Germany. Rosberg actually slowed down and allowed Verstappen room to return to the track. Yet he copped an unjust penalty from a guy who understeered into Al Unser jr to win the 1989 Indy 500.

Races won where their teammate earlier conceded their position due to team orders, therefore significantly increasing their chances of winning.

Hamilton. 1.
Rosberg. 0.

It's alright waffling on about pole positions. But the race results were primarily down to favourable pit strategy. The favourable pit strategy was designated to the leader of the pair, regardless of who it was. The leader of the race was primarily down to who led the first laps as the field formed a predictable order and pace.

A contributing factor in leading the early laps was the form off the start. There's no point in getting pole if you blow the start. There qualifying is not the big deal it's made out to be.

Stats for blown starts.

Hamilton. Too numerous to mention.
Rosberg. Too few to be significant.

Rosberg was better than Hamilton in 2016.

[journeyman racer]

Despite the lack of activity on this site. I remain unperturbed. Here are more key stats. They reflect my original point that Rosberg lifted the season, and Hamilton was not up to the standard he set from 14&15.

GP where driver "clean sweeped" the weekend. As in, set pole, set fastest lap, and won the race.

Rosberg. 2
Hamilton. 1

Alright. 2-1 on it's own might not be a big deal. But when compared to the two previous seasons. It's a telling tale. Clean sweeps for Rosberg and Hamilton in 14&15.

Hamilton

2014 - 3
2015 - 4

Rosberg

Had never achieved this stat in his entire career prior to 2016!

Rosberg lifted. Hamilton dipped.

Rosberg was better than Hamilton in 2016.

[Bagwan]

Despite the lack of activity on this site. I remain unperturbed. Here are more key stats. They reflect my original point that Rosberg lifted the season, and Hamilton was not up to the standard he set from 14&15.

GP where driver "clean sweeped" the weekend. As in, set pole, set fastest lap, and won the race.

Rosberg. 2
Hamilton. 1

Alright. 2-1 on it's own might not be a big deal. But when compared to the two previous seasons. It's a telling tale. Clean sweeps for Rosberg and Hamilton in 14&15.

Hamilton

2014 - 3
2015 - 4

Rosberg

Had never achieved this stat in his entire career prior to 2016!

Rosberg lifted. Hamilton dipped.

Rosberg was better than Hamilton in 2016.

Keep crunching those stats , racer !
This is really interesting .

I'm not one of those who can string these things together as cohesively in a debate , so I appreciate the effort .
You can often , this year included , point to a single moment when the game was lost , but this inclusion of the small things all adding up gives the whole season more real context , showing that Nico really did up his game that little bit in all areas , giving him the edge in the end .
And , in the end , he looked spent , and was , and that's a credit to Lewis , as he lost to a guy who was "all in" .

Don't worry , racer . You're not alone , even if you do hear crickets around here now and then .

[Rollo]

l do not think that was the reason why he lost the title to Rosberg. But you are right in that he did not build enough points buffer to adsorb any unforeseen eventualities or at least make sure that it would be more difficult for reliability issues to wreck his title chances.

Barring the retirements:

Hamilton's average finish: 2.10th
Rosberg's average finish: 2.50th


That said, l have a deep feeling that it probably would not have made the slightest difference.

+1 This.

When your average points paying finish is on the podium (assuming you do finish), then the difference is mostly beyond the control of the meatbag behind the wheel.

[journeyman racer]

Thanks Bagwan. I can't think of more relevant stats though.

Edit:. I will say though. You'd have to question the merit of Hamilton's wins in Canada and Mexico. What other factors that contributed to it.

If somebody other than Hamilton bumped Rosberg off in Canada. MB would've made a complaint of some kind a asked for a penalty. No doubt one would've been issued had that been the case. But if that happened, it would've denied MB an opportunity for a win and Constructor's championship points. So they weren't going to complain about it despite it being to the detriment of Rosberg.

Rosberg should've finished 3rd under the circumstances. Hamilton, 4th at best. A points swing of 15pts towards Rosberg.

Then in Mexico. No doubt Hamilton and Verstappen should've gotten penalties. But because the net result was the same (Hamilton 1st, Rosberg 2nd, Verstappen 3rd), no penalties were enforced.

No action caused controversy at the time. But Rosberg had big points lead. So I think that contributed to it. Had it been a tighter points battle. A penalty would have to be given to Hamilton, and Rosberg left to win the race.

[Nitrodaze]

Thanks Bagwan. I can't think of more relevant stats though.

Edit:. I will say though. You'd have to question the merit of Hamilton's wins in Canada and Mexico. What other factors that contributed to it.

If somebody other than Hamilton bumped Rosberg off in Canada. MB would've made a complaint of some kind a asked for a penalty. No doubt one would've been issued had that been the case. But if that happened, it would've denied MB an opportunity for a win and Constructor's championship points. So they weren't going to complain about it despite it being to the detriment of Rosberg.

Rosberg should've finished 3rd under the circumstances. Hamilton, 4th at best. A points swing of 15pts towards Rosberg.

Then in Mexico. No doubt Hamilton and Verstappen should've gotten penalties. But because the net result was the same (Hamilton 1st, Rosberg 2nd, Verstappen 3rd), no penalties were enforced.

No action caused controversy at the time. But Rosberg had big points lead. So I think that contributed to it. Had it been a tighter points battle. A penalty would have to be given to Hamilton, and Rosberg left to win the race.

yada yada yada

We get it, you don't like Hamilton!

[journeyman racer]

You don't think a penalty was warranted to Hamilton in Canada and Mexico?

Consider that I didn't mention a penalty for Spain?

You obviously couldn't counter the stats I thought up of that tell the actual story of the season. You have to regurgitate the same old boring stats that don't say much.

Go on. Tell me how many poles and wins Hamilton got last year? How he completely crushed Rosberg, who didn't even bother to attempt to pass him in the last 4 races Even when Hamilton was deliberately slowing down!

[Bagwan]

yada yada yada

We get it, you don't like Hamilton!

You are perfectly capable of making coherent counters to his points if you have them .
Reacting as you did makes it look like you merely want a debate you can't win to end .

They are only his opinions . Don't you have any ?

[Bagwan]

You don't think a penalty was warranted to Hamilton in Canada and Mexico?

Consider that I didn't mention a penalty for Spain?

You obviously couldn't counter the stats I thought up of that tell the actual story of the season. You have to regurgitate the same old boring stats that don't say much.

Go on. Tell me how many poles and wins Hamilton got last year? How he completely crushed Rosberg, who didn't even bother to attempt to pass him in the last 4 races Even when Hamilton was deliberately slowing down!

Calm down .
You are a relentless anorak , you know .

"can't think of more relevant stats though."
Yeah , sure .

[Nitrodaze]

You are perfectly capable of making coherent counters to his points if you have them .
Reacting as you did makes it look like you merely want a debate you can't win to end .

They are only his opinions . Don't you have any ?

You don't like Hamilton either. Hence an objective conversation with both of you is pointless. By the way l am not a Hamilton fanboy. I just like a fair opinion not a dig at Hamilton for the sake of it.

The points you put forward show a very poor analysis of the season anyway. The Journeyman stats are simply comical to say the least. I have taken the pain to refer him and you to an independent website where a comprehensive and fair analysis of the season is publicized. Feel free to check it out again and say something worth talking about.

[journeyman racer]

I don't get this guy? He takes himself pretty seriously and I'm certain he considered himself intelligent. But whatever intelligence he has is not demonstrated itt.

Where does he go saying my stats are comical, when in actual fact they tell the story of the season?

My original point was, that despite not dominating, Rosberg was in fact better than Hamilton in 2016. The stats I showed highlight that. I didn't invent anything.

Rosberg was knocked off by other drivers 4 times to his disadvantage. He didn't knock anyone off to his advantage.

Conversely. Hamilton was knocked off track by other drivers once to his disadvantage. Then pushed Rosberg off twice to his advantage. That's a+5 net result where Hamilton is at an advantage due to unfair racing.

This guy refers to a supposedly independent website that just shows the bottom line. I know those stats. But I also watched the season. I recognise that those are not reflective of the course of play during the season.

But this guy refers to these stats from the website as a source of greater merit. He's clearly not good enough to think up of his own. If he's going to say that my stats are comical. Then he's going to have to get those stats and demonstrate why they are not reflective of the season.

He won't be able to because he's an inferior motor racing judge.

Edit: because I've written heaps, I forgot to include this.

If nothing else. Rosberg has demonstrated that if he's left alone. At the very worst, he finishes 2nd. He's reliable in that regard.

So with the par score being 2nd. In the 4 races Rosberg was knocked off track unfairly (Spain, Canada, Malaysia and Mexico), he had a dnf, 4th, 3rd and 2nd. That means he's been denied scoring at least 27pts.

With Hamilton. From the one race he got knocked off, with the same rule, he's denied 3pts.

In fact. Give Hamilton an extra 7pts for hypothetically winning in Bahrain, and knock 7 off Rosberg because he then hypothetically finished 2nd.

We won't worry about that had Hamilton avoided bowling over Rosberg in Spain, Rosberg would've won.

[journeyman racer]

But now. Let's have a look at the stats, from the supposedly independent website, the inferior F1 judge was referring to.

Here's the link again.

http://grandprixrankings.com/compare/2016-f1/hamilton-versus-rosberg/

First of all. Where are the fastest lap stats? This is a glaring omission. Particularly with the advantage of driving an MB, they demonstrate effort during the race, where there are more variables affecting results.

The qualifying stats. In an MB, these stats are not significant. They're a lock for the front row. Hamilton has 12 poles. But 4 of them were in the last 4 "dead rubber" races. If Rosberg got pole, then great. But otherwise, he didn't care.

In a MB. What does it matter to get pole? How much are your chances reduced if you qualifed 2nd? 2% I reckon. It's not necessarily a great performance or important to qualify on pole in an MB.

But what I do notice. Is that accounting for any mechanical problem or grid place penalty. Hamilton was the only MB driver to fail to qualify on the front row.

Failing to qualify on the front row, no mechanical problem, no grid place penalty, in an MB, on top of setting half the FL of Rosberg.

Hamilton failed to qualify on the front row, in a clean MB, twice!

Rosberg always got on the front row in an MB.

That's a bit slack and not up to standard, don't you think?

[journeyman racer]

But this is the stat from the supposedly independent website, that the inferior F1 judge uses, that annoys me the most. It annoys me because it doesn't demonstrate Rosberg's marginal superiority.

Average finishing position.

Hamilton. 2.11
Rosberg. 2.25

The inferior F1 judge, and millions of plebs worldwide would refer to this stat as evidence that Hamilton was better than Rosberg?

Well, they're wrong! Which is typical.

If you have the brain capacity of a starfish, It's easy. Hamilton's clearly better than what Rosberg was in 2016, and it was only MB wanting Rosberg to win the championship, giving Hamilton unreliable cars, that stopped Hamilton from winning the championship.

But if you have the brain capacity of a toddler at minimum. You're able to look at those stats with some depth, and conclude that Rosberg was better than Hamilton.

You see. Unlike with the actual final points total. It's actually to Hamilton's advantage that he finished one race less than Rosberg.

It absolves Hamilton of ultimately causing the collision in Spain. It denied Rosberg an opportunity for a finish, and doesn't hurt Hamilton finishing average. Accounting for the fact he's listed as 21st in the order of the SGP classification. It means his average finishing is 3.05.

But that's not all. The above refers to only if you divide the race finish total by 20, which is how many races Rosberg finished.

But what about the other way? In the past, in other races series as well, to account for mechanical failures or getting into a crash, the rule would be to drop your x number of worst results.

The fact Hamilton failed to finish two races, and Rosberg one. Make it fair, we have to drop Rosberg's worst two results. This would include the 7th in Monaco. Bearing in mind that Rosberg had a debilitating mechanical problem throughout that race, which contributed to the team asking him to move over for Hamilton.

So the average finishing positions for their best 19 results? Hamilton's is 2.11. Rosberg's is a clean 2.0.

Rosberg 2016≥ Hamilton 2016.

[The Black Knight]

You don't like Hamilton either. Hence an objective conversation with both you is pointless. By the way l am not a Hamilton fanboy. I just like a fair opinion not a dig at Hamilton for the sake of it.

The points put forward show a very poor analysis of the season anyway. The Journeyman stats are simply comical to say the least. I have taken the pain to refer him and you to an independent website where a comprehensive and fair analysis of the season is publicized. Feel free to check it out again and say something worth talking about.

In journeyman, you're trying to reason with someone who publicly said he thought Schumacher deserved his injuries from his Skiing accident. When you're dealing with someone that is this mentally stunted and unevolved there isn't much chance of having a reasonable debate with him.

He makes some valid points here and there but on the overall his posts are garbage because he is so biased.

When someone comes out for example and states that Spain was Hamilton's fault and uses that to back up his stats then his stats become useless and uninteresting. Now to address this, Spain was, at best, a racing incident. I still believe to this day however that, as a racing driver, you can't chop someone like Rosberg did, especially when the following car has so much extra momentum. As soon as you close that door you are heading for an unavoidable collision. But let's just leave it as a racing incident as the Stewards ruled.

Now Take for example where Jourmeymen states that Rosberg backed off the last 4 races. Rosberg has himself said the pressure of the championship made him slower in the final races but that doesn't mean he intentionally backed off and was happy for 2nd and, as I said before, he certainly didn't look like a driver that backed off in Brazil qualifying where both him and Hamilton were balls to the wall.

The only thing I agree with is that Rosberg was more consistent than Hamilton. Rosberg never had two races such as Baku and Singapore. Mexico I guess was Rosberg's equivalent of Hamilton's Singapore but Rosberg still grabbed second which Hamilton failed to do in Singapore.

Now taking Canada into account, it's really desperate to blame Hamilton here. Rosberg should have known better than to go around the outside, he was always going to lose that one. That's part of his race craft and instinct that wasn't honed enough though.

I'm not going to go through everyone of journeyman's points and address them one by one because it would take too long and I have a life and, let's face it, the bias in his stats is obvious which ultimately renders them useless.

What I will say is this, On the overall Rosberg was the more consistent and there is no argument that could be made against that. Hamilton was the faster but with the reliability issues he had blighting his chances that is ultimate reason why Rosberg became champion.

I think Rosberg deserved the championship and I have always said that he deserved to be champion at some point. He is a fantastic driver. It's just a shame he was too much of a coward to go out and defend it!

Reliability, decided this years championship but it decided it in favour of a driver that, imo, was deserving of a championship anyway. Both Hamilton and Rosberg were deserving and worthy champions as far as I am concerned. Neither driver dominated the other but alas there can be only one WDC and the dice rolled in Rosberg's favor.

I also do feel also that had Hamilton put as much effort into F1 this year as he did into courting the rich and famous and banging Rihanna that he would still be champion and would have dominated Rosberg as he did last year. Many factors came together to give Rosberg his maiden and deserving title. Some factors were within Hamilton's control, others were not but the ones that were within his control he could have controlled better and had he done that, he would be a 4 time WDC now.

Rosberg is a deserved champion.

[journeyman racer]

Oh yeah. Here we go. TBK coming to the rescue.

Firstly. To discredit me. He has to bring up something about Schumacher that's irrelevant to discussing the merit of the 2016 points standings.

I'd like to openly state. That I didn't say Rosberg was more consistent. I said he was better than Hamilton in 2016.

TBK is like all these other fans when they use the word "consistent". It's used as a backhanded compliment. What they're really saying is"Rosberg's best wasn't as good as Hamilton's. But he was good enough often enough". Then they throw in the reliability dart. Just to further discredit Rosberg. As if to say "If Hamilton didn't have any mechanical problems, he'd have won the championship instead.".

If you want to start talking reliability. If Rosberg doesn't have a mechanical gremlin in Monaco, Hamilton doesn't win.

The collision in Spain? You look at the head on footage. Rosberg started defending his before Hamilton attempting to dive down. You'll be able to see Hamilton's left tyres peek past Rosberg's left side. Hamilton ultimately made the wrong choice.

In Canada? It's certainly not Rosberg's fault. He beat Hamilton off the line. He was half a car length ahead as they were slowing down for the corner. He gave Hamilton two car widths room. And Hamilton still corralled him off the track. At the very least, Hamilton should've clipped the kerb.

But no. TBK puts the onus on Rosberg when he did everything you could expect him to do. "Rosberg should've known better than to go around the outside"

WTF is Rosberg supposed to do??? TBK is in effect saying Rosberg should've let Hamilton past (Like he did in Monaco). Seriously bro. You're hopeless.

Here's a YT link of Canada

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-kdKlH8qyOc

The most notable factor of this clip? Hamilton fanboy David Croft instinctively say "Rosberg gets pushed wide by Hamilton!"

Rosberg's last 4 races? Ultimately, it doesn't matter why he didn't win. What was notable, was that Rosberg never bothered to challenge Hamilton, even when Hamilton deliberately slowed down. At the same time, he always did enough to hold off a threat from RB or Ferrari. If he didn't have more than 28pt margin. He still would've challenged harder than what he did.

TBK isn't going to go through all my points. Not because he's got a life. But because he literally has nothing credible to counter my stats.

Seriously. He would not be able to counter my stats that show Hamilton produced less last season, than what he did in 14&15. No one can.

I'd like to know who was the highest placed finisher of the British GP, who didn't make a mistake and drive off the track?

2.0 is better than 2.11.

Rosberg was better than Hamilton in 2016.

[The Black Knight]

It's not really that difficult to discredit you. You had already discredited yourself in this thread with your own bias, there was absolutely no need for me to add to it. I was just clarifying for everyone what they were dealing with.

But to use your logic and provide an equally biased slant for Hamilton, if Hamilton hadn't had reliability issues in qualifying in Bahrain and China, Rosberg doesn't win either of them. Also, he doesn't win Spa and Hamilton wins there and Malaysia. Had he and Rosberg no issues in Russia he also overtakes Rosberg and wins.

So now we can provide in total Hamilton with an extra 61 points and Rosberg minus 31 points. Now had everything gone as it should Hamilton wins the WDC by 87 points over Rosberg. A deserved victor.

I can further that again, had Hamilton not been taken out by Rosberg in Spain, he would have overtaken Rosberg in that maneuvre and won the race. 7 extra points to Hamilton and he wins the championship by 94 points.

Taking Rosberg's only real reliability gremlin into account in Silverstone where he lost three points then Hamilton wins by 91 points.

Now let's take Monaco into the equation, had Hamilton finished 3rd and Rosberg 2nd then that's a net 22 point difference in Rosberg's favour. Hamilton wins the WDC by 69 points. So all reliability being equal, Hamilton wins the WDC.

Hamilton was better then Rosberg in 2016.

My biased assessment above is equally as useful as all of your stats.

[Rollo]

Under the 9-6-4-3-2-1 points scoring system from 1962-1990 and using all possible dropping combinations, Rosberg always wins.

If you drop no poor results then Rosberg ends up on 127 to Hamilton's 126.

[journeyman racer]

My stats are comprehensive. Your stats are lol worthy. You're unravelling. Not even Hamilton himself would believe your stories.

Here's something else to consider. Had we gone by my hypothetical rule of dropping the two worst results. Hamilton would've won the title by 1pt, despite a worse finishing average for the best 19 races? So in this regard. Neutral race fans can be relieved that the motor racing gods served up some "natural justice" in Malaysia.

But also. To add credibility to Rosberg's status as a champion. When people talk about Rosberg/Hamilton, they only ever talk about 14,15&16. The title years. But they were also team mates in 13. This season gets forgotten.

In 13. Hamilton did not suffer 1 mechanical dnf. Rosberg suffered 3. In those races (Australia, Bahrain & Hungary), Hamilton scored a total of 50pts.

The final point scores for 2013 were

Hamilton. 189pts
Rosberg. 171pts



Edit:. I didn't realise Rollo just posted.

Ouch. That stat would hurt.

[Rollo]

Had we gone by my hypothetical rule of dropping the two worst results. Hamilton would've won the title by 1pt

And I would have cried as foul over that result as I did over Ayrton Senna's fraudulent championship in 1988, where he won the title by being worse.

I've just had thought - with Rosberg gone, shouldn't that entitle Hamilton to run car number 0.

[The Black Knight]

You're right, my stats are LOL worthy which is pretty much what I said in my post but then again yours are even more LOL worthy. I should have known it would go right over your head though. You are the one unravelling, now that your stats have been exposed as nothing other than complete rubbish, you are now beginning to reference other seasons to desperately try and backup your embarrassing stats. I'm mortified for you now. You're getting really desperate but please continue on digging that hole yourself, I'll just get the popcorn and sit back satisfied in the knowledge that all you could do is agree with me and my stats being LOL worthy and then just reference a different season.

I do, however, agree with the 2013 season point. Rosberg had more reliability issues that season. I also remember Hamilton had brake issues the entire year as he couldn't use the Brembo brakes he wanted. Who knows what would have happened were that not the case.

[Bagwan]

You don't like Hamilton either. Hence an objective conversation with both of you is pointless. By the way l am not a Hamilton fanboy. I just like a fair opinion not a dig at Hamilton for the sake of it.

The points you put forward show a very poor analysis of the season anyway. The Journeyman stats are simply comical to say the least. I have taken the pain to refer him and you to an independent website where a comprehensive and fair analysis of the season is publicized. Feel free to check it out again and say something worth talking about.

I do like Hamilton .

And , you do , too .
It's OK to admit that .

It's also OK to accept that others may see a season where it was close as more complicated than just one DNF being the difference between the two .

And , by the way , if you consider anything about conversing with me "pointless" , then , by all means , don't bother .

[journeyman racer]

I can't deny that I've been successfully trolled by TBK.

I'll leave it at that :o

[journeyman racer]

Anyway. Prior to the stats I've already showed. There's more that I found about Rosberg which I thought was interesting.

This is purely about him. Nothing to do with any other driver.

Instead of writing it up again. I'm going to link my post on an Australian Football site.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/nico-rosberg-retires.1153733/#post-48101880

[Bagwan]

I can't deny that I've been successfully trolled by TBK.

I'll leave it at that :o

Both you and TBK are incredibly knowledgeable about F1 , and I really enjoy reading all these posts , but for the mean banter .

I quoted you on this , j-man , but it's really a comment for both of you .
I can imagine some really awesome debate if the disrespect is dropped .

Come on you guys !
Step back to those neutral corners , throw some chill on the keys , and make your points calmly and fairly .

Please .
I really mean it .

[Nitrodaze]

I do like Hamilton .

And , you do , too .
It's OK to admit that .

It's also OK to accept that others may see a season where it was close as more complicated than just one DNF being the difference between the two .

And , by the way , if you consider anything about conversing with me "pointless" , then , by all means , don't bother .
Baggie, l would converse with you all day and anytime. But l would not do it when it seem clear to me that you want to have a dig at driver without good basis. Yes, l like Hamilton, but l like Alonso, Verstapenn, Ricciado, Vettel, Kimi and Bottas among others not mentioned.

[Nitrodaze]

Anyway. Prior to the stats I've already showed. There's more that I found about Rosberg which I thought was interesting.

This is purely about him. Nothing to do with any other driver.

Instead of writing it up again. I'm going to link my post on an Australian Football site.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/nico-rosberg-retires.1153733/#post-48101880

I think you would find that most on here admire Rosberg. He is without doubt a quality top notch driver. But he is not a top tier driver. He is just outside the league of Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso and recently Verstapenn. But that said, Rosberg was the best we have seen him ever, in 2016. Apart from his outstanding performance and his work ethics, his methodical approach this year and his one step at a time philosophy is something that has won him alot of respect and admiration. More so, he is a world champion now, so everything else anyone want to say about the man is irrelevant. It really does not matter if he is not in the top tier of most peoples choices of top driver. He is in an exclusive club of world champions, that is what matters really.
My point is there isn't an anti-Rosberg sentiment against most of your post. It is just that it is disproportionately over-emphasized. But worst, you try to diminish the hard work of another to make your point. My impression is you were trying to whip up prejudice but failed. I have seen this sort of thing before and it is ugly and l was not impressed at all.

[journeyman racer]

I do, however, agree with the 2013 season point. Rosberg had more reliability issues that season. I also remember Hamilton had brake issues the entire year as he couldn't use the Brembo brakes he wanted. Who knows what would have happened were that not the case.
Rosberg would be asked by the team to not pass Hamilton, like in Malaysia?

[journeyman racer]

I think you would find that most on here admire Rosberg. He is without doubt a quality top notch driver. But he is not a top tier driver. He is just outside the league of Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso and recently Verstapenn. But that said, Rosberg was the best we have seen him ever, in 2016. Apart from his outstanding performance and his work ethics, his methodical approach this year and his one step at a time philosophy is something that has won him alot of respect and admiration. More so, he is a world champion now, so everything else anyone want to say about the man is irrelevant. It really does not matter if he is not in the top tier of most peoples choices of top driver. He is in an exclusive club of world champions, that is what matters really.
My point is there isn't an anti-Rosberg sentiment against most of your post. It is just that it is disproportionately over-emphasized. But worst, you try to diminish the hard work of another to make your point. My impression is you were trying to whip up prejudice but failed. I have seen this sort of thing before and it is ugly and l was not impressed at all.

What are you talking about?

I said Rosberg was better than Hamilton in 2016. What part of that don't you understand?

I stated it because it was my observation. Having stated it, I then had to show some proof to back it up. I did.

You on the other hand. Showed me a bunch of nonsense as though it was the be all, end all. It wasn't.

Hamilton won 10 races. 4 of them don't count because the championship was over as a contest is concerned. They were consolation wins, much in the same way Rosberg picked up 3 at the end of 2015.

The problem based on your posts. Is that you don't know what you're looking at. You have a prejudiced view on the drivers. Therefore it wouldn't matter what one or the other did, you're fixed on your opinion.

Rosberg is not a top tier driver, but Verstappen is? Based on what?

As a first year driver, in a car that finished 8th in the Constructor's points. Rosberg scored a fastest lap in 18 races. Verstappen, driving 23 races in a car that finished 7th in the WCC, didn't set fl once.

In a car that finished 2nd in the WCC. Rosberg's won 2/19 races. Verstappen 1/17, in a drought in 16.

In their careers. Rosberg has won at Monaco 3 times. Verstappen has smacked the wall 3-4 times.

To someone like you. Verstappen drove better than Rosberg at the British GP. Yet Rosberg never drove off the track. Verstappen twice drove off the track to his advantage. Driving off the track is not good driving.

[The Black Knight]

Rosberg would be asked by the team to not pass Hamilton, like in Malaysia?

I didn't agree with what happened in Malaysia. I think Rosberg should have been allowed pass Hamilton. Lets not forget that Hamilton overall out-qualified Rosberg in 2013 as well despite not being too comfortable on the brakes. On the overall I think they were pretty close that year with Rosberg having the worse luck of the two on that occasion.

[journeyman racer]

Oh yeah. Them brakes...

[Zico]

Rosberg is not a top tier driver, but Verstappen is? Based on what?


He may not be a top tier driver just yet but it would be very harsh to say that he has not stood out as a real talent in the last two years. Despite some overzealous driving at Monaco he has impressed massively elsewhere and shown well alongside a top tier team mate.
I thought that to do almost as well as Riciardo in his first season with RB was very impressive for such a young man.

I hope I'm wrong but have a very strong suspicion that RB are going to favour Max over Ric and do everything in their power to make him the sensation of the decade for marketing purposes... and thats great for Max but makes me very sad for Ric.. because he doesn't deserve that.

I'd loved to have seen Ric buy out his RB contract and gone to Merc, at least he'd be given an equal chance there and Hamilton would have found a very capable opponent in his new team mate.