Tallinn had a hard night

[expat1]

After long discussions about the pro and contra of an 2nd WW monument in Tõnismägi street, tonight everything seemed to escalate.
57 (?) injured people, one dead, 300 arrested and people throwing stones on busses in the center of Tallinn, and today huge traffic jam because the streets are partly blocked, urg. Yesterday they built a huge tent because they wanted to start some excarvations next to the monument....


Just found that links:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6597497.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6598269.stm

[Eki]

I don't get it. Why don't they just leave it be and forget it? Why the big fuss? There are monuments for fallen Finnish soldiers in Russia and and I guess there may be similar ones for fallen Russian soldiers in Finland as well. They don't bother me, the people underneath are dead, they can't hurt anybody.

[janneppi]

Was it a deliberate decision to move the memorial just before Russia's big day?
If it was, it shows unnecessary bad attitude from Estonia.

A friend of mine was in Tallinn when there was a football match between Estonia and Russia, there were big Russian crowds at the memorial and to my frien, it seemed a bit orchestraded by Russian authorities.

[gadjo_dilo]

Guys, guys, it's hard to understand it when you didn't enjoy life under the Soviet boot. I think many of the former communist countries destroyed or moved monuments that remembered the glorious soviet army.

[janneppi]

I can quite well understand why Estonians want the statue moved.

[Eki]

Guys, guys, it's hard to understand it when you didn't enjoy life under the Soviet boot. I think many of the former communist countries destroyed or moved monuments that remembered the glorious soviet army.
I can understand statues of Lenin or Stalin being destroyed, but to me a grave is a sacred place, no matter the nationality of the buried. I think dead bodies should only be dug up and replaced only if their families want them to be.

[A.F.F.]

Thank god my father was there night before and not last night. I just saw the news and it all seemed unbelieveble. :mark:

[gadjo_dilo]

I can understand statues of Lenin or Stalin being destroyed, but to me a grave is a sacred place, no matter the nationality of the buried. I think dead bodies should only be dug up and replaced only if their families want them to be.

I think the main problem is the monument not the graves. Maybe they should remove the statue and let the graves. I understand these things are in the centre of the city and I know it's hard to glorify something that caused pain to your country.
We have such a monumental construction in a park where the heads of the communist regime, including a president, were buried. Was it fair to relax in the park and to see that those who destroyed my youth are honoured? I don't think so and nobody protested when they were removed.
Even the bones of the unknown soldier , the symbol of those who gave lives for the country, were removed a few times until they found a proper place for the grave. It was made with state honours and religious service so nothing was out of order.

[janneppi]

gadjo_dilo, does your country have 1/3 minority of Russians lke Estonia does?

[gadjo_dilo]

God forbid, no. But I have a feeling the russian minority in Estonia is mainly a result of the russification process that took place in all the former soviet republics. And in this case I think they should shut up and assume the errors of the past.

[janneppi]

It would be very foolish to ignore 1/3 of the population, it wasn't really their fault they lived in Estonia.

[gadjo_dilo]

It would be very foolish to ignore 1/3 of the population, it wasn't really their fault they lived in Estonia.

Sometimes minorities should be ignored because their claims may be absurd. We have a strong minority here that claim autonomy for a region in the middle of our country although it's against european norms and our constitution.

[cali]

you finns seem to be ignorant of may things. If u haven't lived here, then please do not gve comment like u know something about life here in Estonia. Main reason, why this monument was removad (not destroyed) is that many oldschool hardcore communists are still visiting and waving their soviet flags during Soviet (not Estonian) big days. Last year estonian natives couldn't go near this place without any fuss. Could you imagine that soviet flags are waving in Helsinki? This monument for us is a symbol of Soviet occupation. Estonia as a independent country did not fight for Germany nor for Soviets. We were invaded by both germans and soviets. This monument means nothing for estonians - only pain and grief. U got it now???

[Woodeye]

I don't get it. Why don't they just leave it be and forget it? Why the big fuss? There are monuments for fallen Finnish soldiers in Russia and and I guess there may be similar ones for fallen Russian soldiers in Finland as well. They don't bother me, the people underneath are dead, they can't hurt anybody.

I understand it perfectly. Estonia was under soviet reign for quite a long time. So it's hard for Estonians maybe to pay respect to soviet soldiers?

[janneppi]

you finns seem to be ignorant of may things. If u haven't lived here, then please do not gve comment like u know something about life here in Estonia. Main reason, why this monument was removad (not destroyed) is that many oldschool hardcore communists are still visiting and waving their soviet flags during Soviet (not Estonian) big days. Last year estonian natives couldn't go near this place without any fuss. Could you imagine that soviet flags are waving in Helsinki? This monument for us is a symbol of Soviet occupation. Estonia as a independent country did not fight for Germany nor for Soviets. We were invaded by both germans and soviets. This monument means nothing for estonians - only pain and grief. U got it now???

Perhaps you should read my posts better next time.

[A.F.F.]

Could you imagine that soviet flags are waving in Helsinki?


Actually I could imagine it easily. Novadays Helsinki is full of fopreign people anyway. And those who aren't foreign, support them with a hard on. So, basicly what you see in the streets of Helsinki, is flags from all around the world all the time. Should civíl rights be broken in Iraq, their flags wave around the streets. Should something happen in Somalia, surprise, Somalian flags wave around the streets. I wouldn't be surprised if there'll be Soviet flags AND Estonian flags waving to support you both. :rolleyes:

[Eki]

Finland has the only permanent Lenin museum in the world, and I don't hear people complaining about it. Let bygones be bygones.

http://www.lenin.fi/uusi/uk/index.htm

[Erki]

I only wonder how that monument could stand there happily for some 15 years(since Estonia got independent) and now there's all the ado around it.

[gadjo_dilo]

Finland has the only permanent Lenin museum in the world, and I don't hear people complaining about it. Let bygones be bygones.

http://www.lenin.fi/uusi/uk/index.htm

Why should they complain? Lenin didn't any harm to them and they weren't even intoxicated in schools with "daddy "'s quatations.
If some of your conationals had to endure the pleasures of the soviet regime ( such as deportation, working camps, communist prisons, wealth confiscations, to mention but a few facts ) they would definitely have different feelings.

[Tomi]

I only wonder how that monument could stand there happily for some 15 years(since Estonia got independent) and now there's all the ado around it.

Same here, but maybe it's not about the statue, i belive it's more about esonian and estonian-russian relations in general, the fuss around the statue just broght that up in daylight.

[cali]

Actually I could imagine it easily. Novadays Helsinki is full of fopreign people anyway. And those who aren't foreign, support them with a hard on. So, basicly what you see in the streets of Helsinki, is flags from all around the world all the time. Should civíl rights be broken in Iraq, their flags wave around the streets. Should something happen in Somalia, surprise, Somalian flags wave around the streets. I wouldn't be surprised if there'll be Soviet flags AND Estonian flags waving to support you both. :rolleyes: t

Flags in Helsinki are waving, but people are not against your goverment/regime. If your Talvisota would've gone opposite way, you would not speak this way! To understand it, you would've have to live in soviet regime. At this very moment, you don't know what your talking about.

[cali]

Same here, but maybe it's not about the statue, i belive it's more about esonian and estonian-russian relations in general, the fuss around the statue just broght that up in daylight.
True Tomi, you seem to have some clue about it. It is abnormal, that people who have lived here 40-50 yrs are not speaking nor understanding a single word in estonian, but we estonians have to speak russian! They still think that they are the masters - it was about time to strike back! I'm happy that this very moment we have goverment who is strong enough to do that. Also you have seen footage or should see how russians are acting. Yesterday they were like animals, actually most of my friends thought that they were not caring about "The Bronze Soldier" but had the first time reason for rioting. I could not see anger or aggrevation from their face, but pure happiness. Happiness of destroying, happiness which was caused by chaos they made. They robbed stores, but stealed mostly liquor/booze. They enjoyed the destruction. Sorry guys, but you don't have to live with these idiots, we have to!

[Kakuke]

I think that the war we saw yesterday in Tallinn was a result of a big work of Russian puppeteers. Some people are being manipulated from somewhere. The statue stood there for years and no one even noticed it. But about a year ago something happened and it rose to the front pages of the media. It become a symbol for Russian nazis and an altar for their fellow travellers.
Some people, who were on the streets yesterday, were paid for being there and for protesting. Most of them were very young and drunk and, as it was shown on TV, the organisers of the meeting could not hold them back. It seems that someone wants to besmirch our country by that kind of "breaking news". It's not a war between Estonians and Russians, it's a media war but the real enemy is hidden somewhere.
The majority of Russian people here respect us, our laws and culture, they are just Russians in Estonia. But someone is interested in blowing the coals and defaming. It has became more and more obvious during last year and removing of their symbol was an urgent move for our government. Of course we can always ask a question, what if they did not move Aljosha, would it have been better... We never know.

[cali]

True, i didn't want to go that deep, but everything what you just said is so true :)

[A.F.F.]

t

Flags in Helsinki are waving, but people are not against your goverment/regime. If your Talvisota would've gone opposite way, you would not speak this way! To understand it, you would've have to live in soviet regime. At this very moment, you don't know what your talking about.

Oh I understand all right cali. But you asked a question which I SPECIFICLY answered. It was merely a lame try of joke anyways....

[Tomi]

The majority of Russian people here respect us, our laws and culture, they are just Russians in Estonia. But someone is interested in blowing the coals and defaming. It has became more and more obvious during last year and removing of their symbol was an urgent move for our government. Of course we can always ask a question, what if they did not move Aljosha, would it have been better... We never know.

I think it was only a matter of time when something like this would happen, but I dont think this is organised from outside estonia, but because of this now there is many who try to benefit from this in political way both in russia and estonia.

[janneppi]

It is abnormal, that people who have lived here 40-50 yrs are not speaking nor understanding a single word in estonian, but we estonians have to speak russian!
But they didn't live in Estonia, they lived in Soviet Union where they didn't need to learn Estonian, all of a sudden their country is gone and replaced by one that is hostile to them.

Of course there is little excuse for the younger generation, but as it's seen all over Europe, minorities, especially teens that have been brought up in their parent's home country's culture, aren't very happy about being something else.



They still think that they are the masters - it was about time to strike back! I'm happy that this very moment we have goverment who is strong enough to do that.
Out of interest, how dependant are you of Russian oil or electricity or trade in general? ;)



Also you have seen footage or should see how russians are acting. Yesterday they were like animals, actually most of my friends thought that they were not caring about "The Bronze Soldier" but had the first time reason for rioting. I could not see anger or aggrevation from their face, but pure happiness. Happiness of destroying, happiness which was caused by chaos they made. They robbed stores, but stealed mostly liquor/booze. They enjoyed the destruction. Sorry guys, but you don't have to live with these idiots, we have to!

I agree with you that the riots a lot more than just the statue, mostly young people, quite similar to what Paris went through last year. Hopefully you can contain it with the alcohol ban.

The older Russian people who might actually care for the statue as more than just a nationalitic excuse weren't there in the riot, they were tucked away in their beds by nine pm. :)

[janneppi]

There was a nice analysis in the news about this today.
The gist of it was that this was coming all along about something, Estonia get's to play a big boy and throw water balloons at Russia, while Russia shows it's people she cares about them putting the minute little nation back in it's place.
Both countries know full well nothing serious is going to come of this, no one outside Baltic is going to remember this year on now.

[jens]

Today in news placards like "CCCP forever!!" were shown and also people last night and in today's night walk around with Russian flags and shout "Russia-Russia!" Most of them were young, but they have got that attitude from their parents or Russian Federation. The Russian integration into Estonia is not working! It seems that in heart many Russians still want to see Estonia as a part of Russia and in that case - well, we really can't have deep and serious negotiations!

To me it also seems that the Bronze Soldier is just some kind of alibi to express the hate towards Estonia. And Russians try to agitate more ill blood. Btw, also recently in Russia several such statues, which should commemorate WWII, have been removed and no-one has protested!

IMO Russia is actually quite satisfied to see that Soldier removed - that's positive to their propaganda. They seem to need enemies - look at their problems with Georgia, Belarus, Ukraine, etc.

Maybe that text seems a bit ex parte, but well - that's how I see that situation. :)

[Eki]

I think both sides are acting childish and agree with this Finnish historian:

http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/200704276041779_uu.shtml

Suomalaisasiantuntija:
Viron hallitus toiminut epäviisaasti
27.4.2007 17:42

Tallinnan mellakat ovat tulosta Viron hallituksen epäviisaasta politiikasta, sanoo historioitsija Martti Turtola, joka toimi aiemmin Suomen Viron-instituutin johtajana Tallinnassa.

- Olen sitä mieltä, että patsaan olisi pitänyt saada olla paikallaan. Tässä on nyt ajettu väen väkisin kaksi kansanosaa toisiaan vastaan. Kun aikaisemmin ei ole ollut mitään vakavia yhteenottoja, niin miksi haetaan ikään kuin välttämättä tällaista tilannetta, Turtola arvioi STT:n puhelinhaastattelussa.

- En usko, että mellakat ovat Moskovassa masinoituja, ja vaikka jäljet sinne johtaisivatkin, niin ei pidä antautua provosoitavaksi, Turtola sanoi.

Virolaiset ovat Turtolan mukaan puhuneet "miehittäjän patsaasta", mutta tilanne ei hänen mukaansa ole lainkaan näin yksiselitteinen.

Turtola kertoi valmistelevansa syksyllä ilmestyvää tutkimusta Viron siirtymisestä neuvostotasavallaksi toisen maailmansodan aikana. Hänen mukaansa on aivan liian yksipuolinen näkemys, että Neuvostoliitto miehitti Viron asevoimin virolaisten tahdosta piittaamatta.

"Pientä kansaa pitäisi ymmärtää"

Myös Venäjän politiikka Viroa kohtaan on Turtolan mukaan ollut selvästi joustamatonta. - En millään lailla halua puolustella venäläisiä. Heidän pitäisi ymmärtää pienen valtion kansan kärsimykset ja kansallinen ylpeys.

Turtola sanoo virolaisten ja venäläisten suhteiden olleen yllättävän hyvät niinä neljänä vuotena, jotka hän oli Viron-instituutissa Tallinnassa.

- Nyt ollaan pilaamassa se, mitä viimeisen 15 vuoden aikana on rakennettu, Turtola huomautti. Hänen mukaansa presidentti Ilveksen viimeistään olisi pitänyt rauhoittaa tilanne ja määrätä, että venäläissotilaiden muistomerkki jätetään rauhaan.

[cali]

[quote="janneppi"]But they didn't live in Estonia, they lived in Soviet Union where they didn't need to learn Estonian, all of a sudden their country is gone and replaced by one that is hostile to them.

in Soviet Estonia people mostly speaked estonian, so go figure this one....you would consider me rude and ignorant if i would not speak finnish if i would've lived in Finland about 2yrs :)

[cali]

Out of interest, how dependant are you of Russian oil or electricity or trade in general? ;)
It would be harder but we would manage without it as well. Mostly estonian-russians would suffer - because they're trading with russia.

[Eki]

in Soviet Estonia people mostly speaked estonian, so go figure this one....you would consider me rude and ignorant if i would not speak finnish if i would've lived in Finland about 2yrs :)
My aunt's husband was English. He lived in Finland over 15 years and still didn't speak Finnish. It's not that easy.

[Eki]

in Soviet Estonia people mostly speaked estonian, so go figure this one....you would consider me rude and ignorant if i would not speak finnish if i would've lived in Finland about 2yrs :)
My aunt's husband was English. He lived in Finland over 15 years and still didn't speak Finnish. It's not that easy.

[cali]

My aunt's husband was English. He lived in Finland over 15 years and still didn't speak Finnish. It's not that easy.
Here we have a lot more people like your aunt's husband, and they seem to be hostile as well. Would you act like this?

[janneppi]

Cali, how much genuine effort has Estonian goverment taken to integrate the Russian minority?
On top of my head i can only remember some talk about not granting Estonian citizenship to non Estonian speakers, surely that is not the case?
What else has been done?

[cali]

Cali, how much genuine effort has Estonian goverment taken to integrate the Russian minority?
On top of my head i can only remember some talk about not granting Estonian citizenship to non Estonian speakers, surely that is not the case?
What else has been done?
quite a lot actually, i know lots of russian speaking youngsters who are totally intagrated to our culture. Our goverment has invested millions on campaigns, on different kind of progams aso. Citizenship is granted to almost everybody who speaks even a little bit of estonian or are born in here. Those who are rioting, are provoked and uneducated minority. 2000-3000 people are minority. Biggest problem is russian and estonian russian-speaking media which is provoking and giving false information on purpose. I personally have not seen a single russian-speaking person discriminated. If necessary, i try to speak my very bad russian with them - i have no problem of speaking different languages. We have no bias towards russians, i actually thought that these kind of problems are history - i was proven very wrong. This is a big surprse for me as well. Funny thing is, that most of the shops destroyed on 26.04. were owned by russian-estonians. Do you finally understand that those people rioting are animals, not humans and only small part of estonia's russian-speaking population, being manipulated by forces who are behind all of this. Estonia have been put to difficult situation - if we would have done nothing, then we would gave them signals that we will take everything up in our arses. Removing this monument is only thing to do, to maintain our dignity. Russia's propagandamachine is working on full revs! This is propaganda and nothing else, sadly we have still lots of stupid people who are not thinking with their heads, but with their muscles.
PS! The Bronze Soldier is not destroyed, but removed to a different location (cemetary).

[janneppi]

I know full well that there is only a small portion of Russians who are in the riots, That was actually the first post where you don't seem paint the whole Russian minority with the same brush.

Good to see you are taking the effort for integration. Yet this is exactly kind of thing, week before their big celebration that makes your goverment look like the bad guy, handing you arses on a platter to the Russians so to speak.

[cali]

I know full well that there is only a small portion of Russians who are in the riots, That was actually the first post where you don't seem paint the whole Russian minority with the same brush.

Good to see you are taking the effort for integration. Yet this is exactly kind of thing, week before their big celebration that makes your goverment look like the bad guy, handing you arses on a platter to the Russians so to speak.
You can imagine how pissed off i was previously as well. Still i did not believe that we have such idiots in our country. Guess i'm a bit naive. I'm a bit confused as well - if you do not like to live here and shouting "Russia, russia", then why they do not move to Russia? We are not forcing them to live here. We could send them to Finland :laugh:

But everything you said in previous post is true. It's easy for you to say, because you're not living here. Nowadays it's hard to fix those problems. We have to start it all over again.

[janneppi]

We already have a Russian minority here thanks, the difference is that they moved here voluntarily, yours have been there all their lives. :)

[cali]

We already have a Russian minority here thanks

I'm quite aware your situation. Also lots of estonians are cusing problems for you :)

[janneppi]

Only around August. :p :

[Eki]

Here we have a lot more people like your aunt's husband, and they seem to be hostile as well. Would you act like this?
Maybe if I could get along with most people using my native language, I wouldn't bother to learn a new one, especially one as complex and small as Finnish or Estonian. If I for example moved to Scotland, I probably wouldn't bother to learn Gaelic if all the Gaelic speakers there spoke English as well.

[Tomi]

Only around August. :p :

LOL

[cali]

Only around August. :p :
:laugh:

[Mark in Oshawa]

As someone from overseas looking at this thread, I shake my head at the way people get bent out of shape. That said, I didn't live in occupied Estonia, and I can understand how much they dislike the Russians. For the Russians that are now in Estonia, instead of what they thought was the USSR, they have a lot of gall. They are damned lucky the Estonian government didn't want to toss them all out. It is up to Estonians where a statue dedicated to the Russian war dead goes, but lets face it, I don't remember hearing about the French putting up statues all over France dedicated to the Nazi war dead either. The Russians better realize they are NOT well licked in the former USSR republics and live with it. Of course, Russia being Russia, they will find a way to make it sound everyone is out to get them.

As for Finland and the minorities from various places walking the streets, I chuckle. Come to Toronto during the soccer World Cup, and you can tell the minority group by who is playing. When Italy won, you have about half a million Italian Canadians whooping it up....and for every other nation with a team in the World Cup, you had the same parties every time they won. I am surprised anything got done in town last summer.....being tolerant of minorities and immigrants is something that has to be done in Canada, we have too many from somewhere else to get all priggish about things...

[BDunnell]

Of course, Russia being Russia, they will find a way to make it sound everyone is out to get them.

Putin is starting to remind me of Enver Hoxha in this respect — creating a sense of there being external threats in order to exercise control. It is a shame that Russia seems unable to make the best of what it has, let alone move forwards.

[Eki]

being tolerant of minorities and immigrants is something that has to be done in Canada, we have too many from somewhere else to get all priggish about things...
You are all from somewhere else, and so are we.

[jens]

Yesterday the statue was erected at its new placing and the situation seems to calm gradually down, but on May 9 something more "active" might still happen. Army cemetary is a lot better place for that statue and already several Russians have gone and put flowers there. So from today's perspective I really can't understand all that fuss and vandalism that took place in the second half of last week. But Russian Federation still tries to defend the rioters by wanting police to let out them.

[Eki]

Putin is starting to remind me of Enver Hoxha in this respect — creating a sense of there being external threats in order to exercise control.
One other current "world leader" springs to my mind. He lives in a white house.

[jso1985]

and one who lives in Caracas too!
the world is full of nutters in the lead!

[gadjo_dilo]

Cali, how much genuine effort has Estonian goverment taken to integrate the Russian minority?
On top of my head i can only remember some talk about not granting Estonian citizenship to non Estonian speakers, surely that is not the case?
What else has been done?
I don't know the estonian efforts but as I also live in the east I have to tell you that sometimes some minorities refuse to integrate despite all efforts.

[Erki]

It's not all that bad... at least some brands got a bit of free advertising... :p :
http://www.epl.ee/artikkel/384025

My personal favourite: http://www.epl.ee/pic.php?suurus=s&file=164636 Just look at that spark in his eyes! :D

[BDunnell]

One other current "world leader" springs to my mind. He lives in a white house.

This is true, from my perspective at least.

[janneppi]

Funny stuff from Russia.
Russian youth group (with friendly ties with Russian goverment) has had demostrations outside Estonian embassy obstructing their movement, also a Swedish embassy worker had troublke with the group.

Russian authorities claim they won't dismantle the demonstration in fear of unrest, this from the same goverment that crushed an opposition demstration week or two ago in minutes using hunderds of police officers. :p :

[expat1]

Just read that they closed the Estonian Embassy in Moscow after it was blocked for some days now, and that the the embassador was attacked while giving an interview to a newspaper there (she wasn´t hurt).
And some days ago Mr Schröder (who is invited to Estonia at 08/09 Mai from Mr Ansip) made some in my opinion stupid comments about the situation. I hope Mr Ansip cancels the invitation! (but thats just my opinion)...

[BDunnell]

Funny stuff from Russia.
Russian youth group (with friendly ties with Russian goverment) has had demostrations outside Estonian embassy obstructing their movement, also a Swedish embassy worker had troublke with the group.

Russian authorities claim they won't dismantle the demonstration in fear of unrest, this from the same goverment that crushed an opposition demstration week or two ago in minutes using hunderds of police officers. :p :

How depressing this is. I think there is currently little hope for the continued development of Russia as a civilised democracy when one bears events like this in mind.

[schmenke]

My aunt's husband was English. He lived in Finland over 15 years and still didn't speak Finnish. It's not that easy.

Perhaps slightly off-topic here, but from what I've read General Carl Mannerheimin did not speak a word of Finnish :mark:

[Tomi]

Perhaps slightly off-topic here, but from what I've read General Carl Mannerheimin did not speak a word of Finnish :mark:

you have wrong info

[schmenke]

I read it recently in the book A Frozen Hell by William Trotter(?). According to the author, Mannerheimin had to use interpreters to communicate with his officers :mark:

[janneppi]

He was born into a Swedish-speaking family and served in the Russian military, not much Finnish there, he did grew up in a Finnish speaking area, but wasn't fluent in it until later.

[Tomi]

I read it recently in the book A Frozen Hell by William Trotter(?). According to the author, Mannerheimin had to use interpreters to communicate with his officers :mark:

I think he spoke finnish quite good by that time, if the book is about the winter war, was it a good book?

[schmenke]

... if the book is about the winter war, was it a good book?

Yes, it was o.k. Although not quite in-depth, it was informative, although somewhat one-sided. But I guess it's difficult to an accurate recount of the war from the Russian side :mark: .

I think you can buy the book from Amazon.com, although keep in mind that it is a fairly old book as it was written, I believe, in the 1960s :mark:

[Tomi]

Yes, it was o.k. Although not quite in-depth, it was informative, although somewhat one-sided. But I guess it's difficult to an accurate recount of the war from the Russian side :mark: .

I think you can buy the book from Amazon.com, although keep in mind that it is a fairly old book as it was written, I believe, in the 1960s :mark:

ok thank's, i guess you are right can be difficult to find, for some reason that war is missing from their history writing.

[A.F.F.]

I read it recently in the book A Frozen Hell by William Trotter(?). According to the author, Mannerheimin had to use interpreters to communicate with his officers :mark:


That's true but not because he couldn't speak Finnish. It was because he was so drunk.

[A.F.F.]

What comes to Estonian embassy in Moscow, the act of the local police is hilarious indeed. One could even say they really don't want to break the protest groups :rolleyes:

[Jaanus]

http://www.nato.int/docu/update/2007/05-may/e0514a.html

[janneppi]

Heh, just as i expected, some completely irrelevant issues.
Russian goverment is thinking of starting maintenance work on the rail line to Estonia, which BTW is the only line that has trains that carry oil from Russia to Estonia.
Don't worry estonians, as your goverment commentated, it will only hurt Russians . :D

[Jaanus]

About oil transported by railway.
1 Oil transport will not stop. The news has been overturned by Estonian Railway partners in Russia.
2 Oil that is transported through Estonia is not refined and as we do not have a refinary it is transported abroad by oil tankers through Estonian ports.
3 Most of this oil transport is controlled by Russian or Estonian Russian owners and yes it will mainly hurt their busines.
4 The disel and gasoline in our gas stations comes mostly from a Lithuanian oil refinery in Mazeikiu by trucks.