Hamilton & Rosberg collide again.... [Archive]

steveaki13

3rd July 2016, 15:55

So yet again these two Championship rivals touch.

I have to say it adds real drama when these incidents happen. I know some will critise me for saying that, but in a Mercedes dominated era and when races can be dull at the front, these championship clashes spice things up.

What do you guys think?

One thing we should praise Mercedes for is letting them race. Ferrari & Red Bull in years past would have long stopped the race.

Hamilton saying Rosberg hit him and its his problem.
Rosberg saying he was surprised Hamilton turned in.

discuss

Koz

3rd July 2016, 15:56

He didn't turn in, simple as that. 100% intentional. Onboard shots show it clearly.

steveaki13

3rd July 2016, 15:56

Watch on board with Rosberg.

Very revealing. Rosberg arrives at the corner and clearly does not turn towards the corner. Looking to do run Hamilton off or make contact.

INteresting

steveaki13

3rd July 2016, 15:57

He didn't turn in, simple as that. 100% intentional. Onboard shots show it clearly.

Yes just saw that Koz. Very intersting turn of events.

Clearly title stress is feeling the heat to do that. Maybe up there with Monaco Quali.

Mintexmemory

3rd July 2016, 15:58

Once again the racer is passing the x-box player. Rosberg was iced and drove Hamilton off the track. Thankfully he damaged his car in the process. Rosberg proved not only doesn't he have the cojones to be Champ, he doesn't have the brains either!

Koz

3rd July 2016, 16:00

Now. What is an appropriate penalty?

Is disqualification from the championship too harsh? Maybe this is why Toto and Niki are banging on about braking?

Mintexmemory

3rd July 2016, 16:04

Disqualification from the next race or all points from this race.

The Black Knight

3rd July 2016, 16:05

It's pretty clear that Lewis gave Nico plenty of room. He couldn't have done anymore.

Nico didn't even try to turn in for the corner. Can't blame Lewis for that one, although I'm sure some people will try. Ultimately, it was justice for Mercedes for compromising Hamilton in the first place with their strategy. He definit t needs to have some punishment. He might very well get disqualified for the race here.

steveaki13

3rd July 2016, 16:05

I think anything from a time penalty today through to a race ban is possible.

Sadly though this has lead Toto to say team orders may have to be implemented. I guess that would be a case of whoever leads going into the last 10 laps wins. Hopefully not the old whoever gets into turn 1 first wins.

steveaki13

3rd July 2016, 16:06

Disqualification from the next race or all points from this race.

snap. I think this is most likely. Although I wouldnt be surprised to just see a grid drop :p

Koz

3rd July 2016, 16:08

Did Rosberg get his contract renewed yet?

snap. I think this is most likely. Although I wouldnt be surprised to just see a grid drop :p

Anything to do with only this race seems too lenient.

steveaki13

3rd July 2016, 16:13

I think a race ban is possible but unlikely given the situation. whether its right or wrong.

Zico

3rd July 2016, 16:39

Oooh! I haven't see the incident from onboard yet but judging from the events and what has been said by Toto, it's very interesting to see apparent driver allegiances coming to the surface among the Merc top brass.. or am I reading too much into this? It will be fascinating to see how this pans out.

Great that they let them race though, great battle, very exciting.. thank you Merc!

steveaki13

3rd July 2016, 16:48

Great that they let them race though, great battle, very exciting.. thank you Merc!

Hope they continue to let them race.

henners88

3rd July 2016, 17:04

I was disappointed to see Nico failed to turn in until he was nearly at the edge of the track. It certainly looks like he was trying to push Lewis and it backfired badly. I think there will be a sanction put on him so expect a deduction of points or perhaps a one race ban. It was a stupid incident that was completely avoidable.

Jenson Button said 'he didn't even let him rejoin the circuit!' after seeing the second part of the incident. I just hope Mercedes tackle Nico and don't try and portray this latest incident as 50/50.

truefan72

3rd July 2016, 17:10

Rosberg's comments: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125115/rosberg-blames-hamilton-for-austria-collision

"I went a bit deep into the corner, but that's fine because I'm on the inside - I dictate," Rosberg told TV crews after the race.

"I was very surprised that Lewis turned in and caused a collision.

"We were battling, I was struggling a little bit with my brakes because they got a bit hot in the end.

"My tyres were degrading, so that gave Lewis a chance.

"Nevertheless I was confident I could defend and bring it home. I had the inside position, a strong position.

"Very gutted, it's unbelievable this sport sometimes.

"I was sure to win that race and then I lost it on the last lap. That's pretty intense."

SMH

rjbetty

3rd July 2016, 17:27

Lol how could Nico be sure to win the race when he had such serious brake issues?

Also, how much does anyone want to bet had Nico won and Lewis dropped down or DNFd, Toto's mood would be much better?!

:D

And both drivers are now under investigation? Well at least that includes Nico, not just Lewis. Probably because Derek Warwick is nowhere to be seen this time. :D

Garry Walker

3rd July 2016, 17:52

Nico is deluded, sadly.

N4D13

3rd July 2016, 18:11

If Mercedes can prove that Rosberg had a genuine brake issue, I think it's unlikely that Nico will get any penalty - at most, he'll get a grid penalty.

steveaki13

3rd July 2016, 19:31

Nico Rosberg has been given a 10 second penalty. Leaving him 4th. now +26 instead of +16 seconds behind Hamilton and 2 penalty points on his license. If he gets 12 he faces a race ban.

So no real penalty at all. hmm...........................

truefan72

3rd July 2016, 19:56

I've seen stiffer penalties handed out for less
oh well.

The Black Knight

3rd July 2016, 20:14

Pathetic penalty from the FIA. It is what is is now but that really is total utter bullshit!

I have a feeling were it the other way around the penalty would have been harsher. He should have at least gotten a 5 place grid drop for Silverstone.

Remember Schumacher in 2012 Spain incident getting a 5 place drop for Monaco. That was Schumachers fault but there was no intent. Rosberg's only intent was to not give Hamilton room and he caused the collision.

Once again, no consistency from the FIA!

Duncan

3rd July 2016, 20:47

Watched the replay a few more times and Nico's line just looks really bizarre. He pretty much goes straight, and is nowhere near the apex where you would expect him to be if he was attempting to take the fastest line available to him. It's actually pretty hard to see how he wouldn't have gone off on the outside himself without Hamilton having been there to "slow him down".

Interestingly, the NBCSN commentators just said right before the incident something like "you know, for Nico, it would be better for both cars to fail to finish rather than have Lewis finish ahead".

The penalty seems far to light. What is pretty hard to interpret as anything other than a deliberate collision to gain championship advantage, and there's essentially no net penalty. I would have expected at least grid spots at the next race for that.

Zico

3rd July 2016, 21:16

At least it backfired on him, I like to think it would have been a far harsher penalty if the opposite had happened and Lewis had lost places.
It sends out the wrong message but maybe the stewards felt his self inflicted misfortune in finishing 4th was apt and punishment enough

andyone

3rd July 2016, 21:16

now i have proven that a German Car manufacture wants a German to win the Championship. and Karma is a Bitch, they are defending Rosberg, i like the comentators though they summed it up very very well.

i dont see the point if you have bad brakes then you dont turn into the corner. now i see Nico is not a real racer. Good that Hamilton is keeping in Cool. he is the Best on the Grid so Far

driveace

3rd July 2016, 21:24

The penalty was not even a slap on the wrist,it meant nothing .A ten place penalty on the next race may have made this driver think a bit harder about his race strategy ,somebody could get killed by his stupid action !

keysersoze

3rd July 2016, 21:46

It sure is taking dj_bytedisaster a few extra minutes to get to this thread. Must be difficult to find a way to dump on Hamilton for this one.

steveaki13

3rd July 2016, 21:50

It sure is taking dj_bytedisaster a few extra minutes to get to this thread. Must be difficult to find a way to dump on Hamilton for this one.

Seb is the best ever so thats why Hamilton is at fault. ;)

Tazio

3rd July 2016, 22:00

Watched the replay a few more times and Nico's line just looks really bizarre. He pretty much goes straight, and is nowhere near the apex where you would expect him to be if he was attempting to take the fastest line available to him. It's actually pretty hard to see how he wouldn't have gone off on the outside himself without Hamilton having been there to "slow him down".
terestingly, the NBCSN commentators just said right before the incident something like "you know, for Nico, it would be better for both cars to fail to finish rather than have Lewis finish ahead".

The penalty seems far to light. What is pretty hard to interpret as anything other than a deliberate collision to gain championship advantage, and there's essentially no net penalty. I would have expected at least grid spots at the next race for that.

Your comments are spot on. It is quite obvious Nico did not go for the apex. Looks like he drove straight instead. It is apparent that Nico doesn't really know how to fight tough but fair. You be the judge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3c11GRAtI0
Go to 55 seconds.

Big Ben

3rd July 2016, 22:54

henners88

3rd July 2016, 22:58

Rosberg in the wrong here but I'm really bored with these two morons TBH. The clumsy slower moron vs. the delusional 'hard racer' moron. I find this fight so interesting that I need to do something else in the meantime if I don't want to fall asleep

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

If we didn't have these sorts of personalities and incidents, F1 would be immensely boring. Nobody likes processions and dull careful drivers. We need a couple of idiots like these two mixing it up.

Big Ben

3rd July 2016, 23:12

I'm not that easily entertained. It's not scandal what I'm looking for

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

N. Jones

4th July 2016, 00:10

This is totally Nico's fault. I'm surprised he did not get excluded from the race.

Bagwan

4th July 2016, 00:42

Why not lynch him ?
You guys are too much .

Koz

4th July 2016, 01:20

I've seen stiffer penalties handed out for less
oh well.

But that would harm the championship!

Warriwa

4th July 2016, 01:43

Nico once again shows his hand.
Mercedes management once again show their hand.
FIA stewards show their hand. When is a penalty not really a penalty?

N. Jones

4th July 2016, 03:05

Mercedes - Time for team orders:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/wolff-warns-of-team-orders/

keysersoze

4th July 2016, 05:07

Tazio

4th July 2016, 05:30

Can't stand Rosberg. Not a sportsman, at all--when he is ahead, filthy moves dot his career. When a driver has a run on him, he takes outrageous racing lines in the name of "I was in the lead."

In both accidents with Lewis this season, Nico is the lead car and brutally defends. Contrast that with Kimi v Perez at Baku. The Finn never changed his racing line, and could have done something dirty to force Sergio into a spin.
I use to like Rosberg. I mean even leading into this season, but he really isn't as talented as Lewis. He is Webber grade at best. He has this lofty position because the car is ahead of the field. But If it is going to be a one team championship, and Mercedes want it to be competative, I think it would be a lot more entertaining, and fair if The Boss' teammate was Seb, or even Fred, or a couple of other younger guys. This deal at Mercedes has gotten really stale. Oh well still a long season:dozey:

Jag_Warrior

4th July 2016, 09:23

Why not lynch him ?
You guys are too much .

Got some tall trees outside the house. Don't got no rope though. :D

Rosberg got off light, IMO. The stewards let him off with a tap on the wrist. But this b!tch move might knock a few Euros off that new Merc contract.

keysersoze

4th July 2016, 13:36

In this thread I don't think we have mentioned the very first dust-up in the Hamilton-Rosberg-accident-saga: Rosberg cutting Lewis' tire at Spa 2014. This time Lewis was in front going into the right-hander Les Combes, with Nico on his outside (left). Nico did manage to get alongside Hamilton--his front wing even with Hamilton's cockpit--but by then Lewis had begun to turn in and was not looking to his left. In my view, Rosberg was 100% responsible for avoiding contact, and he failed.

The Black Knight

4th July 2016, 14:15

I use to like Rosberg. I mean even leading into this season, but he really isn't as talented as Lewis. He is Webber grade at best. He has this lofty position because the car is ahead of the field. But If it is going to be a one team championship, and Mercedes want it to be competative, I think it would be a lot more entertaining, and fair if The Boss' teammate was Seb, or even Fred, or a couple of other younger guys. This deal at Mercedes has gotten really stale. Oh well still a long season:dozey:

Ah come on now. He is a vastly superior driver than Webber ever was.

Starter

4th July 2016, 15:04

Ah come on now. He is a vastly superior driver than Webber ever was.
Doubtful.

Mia 01

4th July 2016, 16:38

Lewis steered ino Nico!!!

henners88

4th July 2016, 17:16

Lewis steered ino Nico!!!

Nico forgot to turn into the corner lol.

steveaki13

4th July 2016, 19:42

Lewis steered ino Nico!!!

Come on Mia. I know you dont like Lewis but your hate for him and love for Kimi ruins your outlook.

truefan72

4th July 2016, 19:46

I encourage everyone to go to the official f1 website and see the video analysis of the incident which unequivocally aportions blame to nico.

henners88

4th July 2016, 21:03

I encourage everyone to go to the official f1 website and see the video analysis of the incident which unequivocally aportions blame to nico.

I've just watched it and it's a clear analysis by James Allen.

https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2016/7/Accident_or_aggression__Hamilton_and_Rosberg's_Aus trian_collision_explained.html

henners88

4th July 2016, 21:59

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160704/d04650ba9c8681a13b17256cb221f478.jpg

Bagwan

4th July 2016, 22:59

Nico forgot to turn into the corner lol.

She's right , and you're right , too .

henners88

4th July 2016, 23:03

She's right , and you're right , too .

Well technically Lewis was steering into the corner thinking he was safe in the knowledge that his teammate had remembered to turn too.

Bagwan

4th July 2016, 23:38

Well technically Lewis was steering into the corner thinking he was safe in the knowledge that his teammate had remembered to turn too.

Correct .
I've said it a few times now .
I think you get the message that we agree on this .

But , the logic goes both ways .
It's just that in most cases where Rosberg has been squeezed , he backs out .
The only time he asserted himself , really , in that squeeze kind of situation was in Spain a couple of years ago , and he made a hash of trying to make a point .

It's the same point he's trying to make now .

And , unfortunately , he's doing a poor job of it again .
He needs to just come out and say what he thinks about the situation , whether it throws his team-mate under the bus or not .
It seems obvious to me that he thinks that too often he gets squeezed out , and feels aggrieved that the reasoning accepted , at least within the team , is that the driver inside may dictate the line .

That's the reason Toto , I believe , said at first that it was a braindead move , but then moved to a more centered position of not wanting to apportion blame , and rather just not wanting them to touch any more .
He knew exactly how the conversation would go in the debrief .

It's also why , I think , Nico isn't about to fully accept blame at all .

steveaki13

5th July 2016, 00:21

Bagwan

5th July 2016, 01:02

What should Hamilton have done differently in your opinion Bagwan? He was slipping around the outside of the corner. Should he have gone straight on off track (like not many drivers do ever....) or braked to a stop or crawl waiting for Rosberg to turn?

Just interested in your opinion on this.

Reasonable enough question , steve .

We have to trust Hamilton when he says he had Nico in his blind spot , meaning he couldn't see him any more , thus the decision to turn in was a reasonable one .
And , one that is upheld in the rules .

That is true as reasonable , firstly , if he was unaware of Nico's brake issues , which , I think he stated , so we should accept it that he wouldn't have known he would be going straight through to the edge of the track .

But , as he couldn't actually be sure that he had cleared Nico , I think he rather should have just assumed his team-mate would be that desperate to keep him behind that he would run him out of room if he could .
This is a guy who was trying to steal a win from a guy who got pole .

So what would I do ?
I think perhaps he was too far ahead in the braking phase to go wide and take the inside on the way out of the corner , so that's not an option , I believe .

Once in the corner , Nico was never going to open the door , even though he said he thought he had left enough room , so perhaps a touch on a turn in , maybe a little lighter wouldn't be a bad gambit .

Although , making a big verbal fuss after having driven wide in avoidance and back on safely might have been enough to achieve the same effect of having Rosberg punished , as we are still talking about a fight for first on the last lap .
The other bonuses happen to be a team happier with Lewis for his avoidance , instead of mad at both , and more chances to pass a clearly struggling team-mate with a few corners yet to go .

I'd slide through , and whine like hell that he didn't give me any room . That's how I"d win .

Nitrodaze

5th July 2016, 22:23

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah108/aokri/Screen%20Shot%202016-07-05%20at%2021.25.11_zpsks6lrlux.png

This pic shows the racing line through the corner. Rosberg did not try to take it, even though he could have. Mia get your glasses on before you look at this.

Bagwan

5th July 2016, 22:59

henners88

5th July 2016, 23:01

Is that shot taken as they touched ?
Doesn't look like it, Hamilton is not turning.

Zico

6th July 2016, 01:27

Just been watching Anthony Davidsons analysis again. Looked to me like he was aiming for Lewis's front wheel.. but couldn't pull it off!

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/10332607/lewis-hamilton-and-nico-rosberg39s-late-austrian-gp-crash-analysed#ooid=VvcmNqNDE66fKu2Ov3cYW03gpb1Lo1sX

Warriwa

6th July 2016, 03:05

My very first thought upon seeing the incident was that Rosberg's intention was to puncture the tyre.

Bagwan

6th July 2016, 03:22

i just watched a replay of the start of last year's Austin race , and it's almost a perfect mirror image of this last incident , except that Nico backs out .

dj_bytedisaster

6th July 2016, 07:41

My very first thought upon seeing the incident was that Rosberg's intention was to puncture the tyre.

Nope. That wasn't his intention in Spa 2014, nor was it in Austria, simply because the drivers can't see their front wings. You can't really stab one with a knife you can't see. Not even Sutil would try that. He tried to crowd Lewis off the track.

The Black Knight

6th July 2016, 08:16

Nope. That wasn't his intention in Spa 2014, nor was it in Austria, simply because the drivers can't see their front wings. You can't really stab one with a knife you can't see. Not even Sutil would try that. He tried to crowd Lewis off the track.

Wrong! Nico knew roughly where his front wing was in Spa 14 relative to Lewis. It's complete and utter rubbish to suggest to a driver can't use it as a weapon as your analogy does. I mean, it's on the cars 100% of the time. I can't see down over the top of my jeep but I still can squeeze perfectly into tight parking spaces close to the car in front without my front end hitting it. Why? Because I know it's there even though I can't see it, just like Nico knew his wing was there even though he couldn't see it.

This is why one sees F1 cars following so close to cars in front of them. They can not judge perfectly where their wing is but they have a rough idea and Rosberg knew that if he swiped for Hamilton in Spa 14 that he'd either miss Hamilton or take his rear wheel with him. It was blatantly intentional and yet another incident he got away with.

Nitrodaze

6th July 2016, 11:49

Is that shot taken as they touched ?

On the evidence, it does not matter whether if it was as they touched, before they touched or after they touched. The picture shows quite clearly that Rosberg acted intentionally with the aim to crash into Hamilton. He did not mean to fight for the corner or to have a drag race out of the corner. He simply intended to take out Hamilton or squeeze him off the track.

henners88

6th July 2016, 12:02

i just watched a replay of the start of last year's Austin race , and it's almost a perfect mirror image of this last incident , except that Nico backs out .
The start of any race is treated differently when 20+ cars are battling for space in T1. Wheel banging is expected. Look at Kvyat in Russia for example. The first touch with Vettel in T1 was treated as a racing incident and it was his second contact that was investigated.

Having viewed the footage of last years USGP I think had Hamilton and Rosberg collided it would have been treated as a racing incident. However if this same manoeuvre been performed further into the race then Lewis would have been in hot water.

Mia 01

6th July 2016, 12:15

Nico coldn´t take the proper raceline because Lewis was there on his outside, therefore the bend became sharper. Lewis is a true and ruthless racer, huuh.

Nitrodaze

6th July 2016, 12:26

Nico coldn´t take the proper raceline because Lewis was there on his outside, therefore the bend became sharper. Lewis is a true and ruthless racer, huuh.

Mama Mia!

zako85

6th July 2016, 12:38

Drunk post..

Bagwan

6th July 2016, 13:42

henners88

6th July 2016, 15:00

Nico coldn´t take the proper raceline because Lewis was there on his outside, therefore the bend became sharper. Lewis is a true and ruthless racer, huuh.
There was enough space as seen on the Sky segment to show that Nico could use the same line as his previous lap. Nico failed to turn in when expected and collided with Lewis at the limit of the track boundary.

I know your feelings for Lewis, but surely you can view this reasonably considering the evidence and footage available?

Starter

6th July 2016, 15:04

henners88

6th July 2016, 15:06

Damn , guys, counter her point or don't bother .

Nico admitted he couldn't take the normal racing line because Hamilton was trying to pass him on the outside .
He held him out there on purpose .
That , effectively , had Rosberg creating a much tighter corner for Hamilton to navigate , thus , the "bend became sharper" .

Her opinion may differ from yours , but debate her , rather than insult her , please .
I think many of us realise Mia gets an enormous amount of satisfaction from her posts. There is usually very little substance but a hit and run comment to stoke the fire. Any form of counter argument is wasted as it's never answered anyway. I should know as I've usually given her with my opinion and it's ignored. I just draw from that a satisfaction that I've put her straight :p

Nitrodaze

6th July 2016, 20:11

Starter

6th July 2016, 23:29

So Mercedes is giving both their drivers a final warning. A very bizzarre statement, to warn the victim and perpetrator of wrong doing.

If someone do not clearly state to Rosberg to cut out his ruthless maneuvers, there is going to be a serious injury or fatality before this season is over. We have seen dress rehearsals for it twice already.
A final warning? What will they do if both ignore it? Fire them both mid season?

On the other hand, that might be a good thing. Two openings on the grid. Now where did i store away that superlicense? :eek::D

driveace

7th July 2016, 09:37

JeNeon Button said "Not only did Nico steer Lewis off the track ,but he tried to stop him coming back on the track after the corner too "

Bagwan

7th July 2016, 12:31

JeNeon Button said "Not only did Nico steer Lewis off the track ,but he tried to stop him coming back on the track after the corner too "

And , Massa said : "On the last lap, who wouldn't try to fight for position? It's totally normal."

Nitrodaze

7th July 2016, 18:01

Arrivabene claims he doubts Vettel and Raikonenn would crash into each other like Rosberg and Hamilton. Of course it is easy to say when there is nothing major at stake between the Ferrari pair. We know how ruthlessly competitive Vettel is. We also saw how tough Kimi can get, with is shunt with Bottas last year. That said, what Arrivabene would give to have Toto's problems at the mo? An organ or two l am sure.

Redbull are also quick to say what a great driver pairing they have. The best they have ever had, they claim. We have seen enough to know that, battle between Ricciado and Verstapenn is going to be immense. They are on a slow fuse at the mo, with Ricciado feeling cheated out of 2 wins in Spain and Monaco while his rookie teammate shines.

The Redbull situation is interesting. As we get a fortunate opportunity to watch it develop as the car gains performance and edges ever closer to the Mercedes. We know it is going to be monumental. As good and tough as the Hamilton-Rosberg rivary. The real question is , whether it would be anything like the equivocal parity that Mercedes have given their driver pairing. Redbull do not have a history of offering equality to its drivers. They witting or unwittingly lean towards one driver over the other.

That is the real challenge for Ricciado. He must take the initiative to win the first WDC available to the Redbull team before his rookie teammate does. it would be another Webber treatment for Ricciado if Verstapenn wins that first WDC that become available to Redbull and l think deep down he knows it. It is particularly worrying to see Marko showing more enthusiasm for Verstapenn than for Ricciado in press encounters. With a very good Sainz waiting in the wings. Ricciado may have a shorter chance of having a go at the title than it appears.