Monaco 2016

[Bagwan]

Just about time for qually , so it's time for a thread about it all .

Bulls fastest by 6 tenths yesterday , and reds fastest this morning .

Will the silver arrows be on pole ?
Stay tuned , kids .

[Tazio]

A lot on the line in qually today. I expect a little controversy!

[Tazio]

Kimi gets a 5 place grid drop for a gearbox change!

[Bagwan]

Mornin' , Taz man .

Dis is gonna be good !

[Tazio]

Morning Baggy :wave:

[Zico]

That was an incredible time by Danny yesterday, looks like he has a very good chance of pole. Can't wait for this..

[Tazio]

Red Flag!!

[steveaki13]

Morning.....

Late to the party. That was some engine failure. Dont see many like that anymore

[Tazio]

Second red flag, Max!

[Koz]

Max is about to get spanked by the Doctor.

[Tazio]

Action packed Q1 come on Q2!

[Bagwan]

From the front row to the back row in one easy move .

Many uneasy interviews coming soon to a Max near you .

[Bagwan]

Action packed Q1 come on Q2!

Yeah , baby ! Lovin' it !

[Tazio]

From the front row to the back row in one easy move .

Many uneasy interviews coming soon to a Max near you .
Dad's not going to be happy ;)

[Tazio]

Boss has got a problem :eek:

[steveaki13]

lots of problems

[Tazio]

What a great session. Congrats Danny boy!

[Stan Reid]

Three teams leading each of three FP sessions. Looks like some parity at least on little rinky-dink tracks. I notice that, in some listings, Red Bull is all of a sudden a Renault again:rolleyes:

[Bagwan]

Dad's not going to be happy ;)

Could be extra unhappy, with the smiley teammate on pole .

It'll make it entertaining at both ends of the field .





And then , it may rain ............

[Tazio]

Could be extra unhappy,

Not unhappy enough to kick him in the balls I hope! :mark:

[Mia 01]

What a lap from Ricciardo!! About time that someone else than Mercedes got pole. will cheer for him tomorrow, and Kimi ofcourse.

[Tazio]

Interesting that Danny boy set his Q2 time on SS

http://i.imgur.com/FI30U5c.jpg

Of course if it is wet they all will be starting on inters.
Even if it is dry they are expecting some heavy rain overnight. http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=f1;sess=
With a green track it will introduce another level of peril for the protragonists. This could be a great race

[zako85]

I am glad that an otherwise boring Monaco GP has some kind of promise. Even if Mercedes cars are faster, as many believe, they'll have to get past Ricciardo, and even if Hamilton is as great as many believe, he will have to get past of two very fast cars.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Funny how both Mercs had problems that Lauda knew all too well. This building up of gas bubbles in the fuel was commonplace in the seventies. You'd think they would have solved things like that by now.

It will still be a procession. Great lap from Ricciardo. That new Renault engine seems to work well, so finally after two years they have finally caught up, sort of.

[Zico]

Looking like a wet race from the start guys.. carnage ahead?

How does this affect things, are the guys on the grid still locked in setupwise?
Can Verstapen and Nasre starting from the pitlane make suspension setup changes?

[Bagwan]

Funny how both Mercs had problems that Lauda knew all too well. This building up of gas bubbles in the fuel was commonplace in the seventies. You'd think they would have solved things like that by now.

Yeah , vapour lock . Drill a hole in the gas cap stuff ...old school .
Reminds me of a joke about a camel .

[Tazio]

Morning bro's, wet start, yeah babe :wave:

[Tazio]

I wonder if Charlie will have them start behind the safety car :bigcry:

[Stan Reid]

This is OTA on NBC here so it will be the first F1 race I see this year. About 17 hours of continuous racing on TV today with this, Indy and the Charlotte 600.

[Koz]

Rolling start... Where's the fun in that??

[Tazio]

Sucks bro!

[Stan Reid]

Those knobby tires look like they got them off a sprint car. I wish they would issue Monaco an ultimatum to either build a proper track (wider and at least 4 km in length) or get off the calender. Either start the race or put a dress on and go play tennis.

[Koz]

What the point of having wet and intermediate tyres if they aren't allowed to race?

[truefan72]

why does whiting always do this?
...lets go racing!

[Tazio]

That didn't take long!

[Tazio]

Kimi man!

[Koz]

Kimi that stupid noob! Time to retire old man!

[truefan72]

rosberg really holding hamilton up. this is an interesting situation. if mercedes want to win the race they need to release hamilton, but rosberg is the WDC leader and has a right to defend his postion form his competitior.

[truefan72]

eff the rules, if i was hamilton, i would pit for inters

[Koz]

Whoa. He let him through?!!!

[truefan72]

and that is why rosberg is a #2
I don;t want to hear from anyone about how Rosberg has skill on par with hamilton
this has just exposed him, and probably cost mercedes a real chance at victory

i'm sure wolf and mercedes will come up with some bogus excuse about "faulty fuel pump whatever" to explain rosbergs useless driving

[Zico]

3 Secs slower than Lewis in half a lap! Rosberg has a problem?

[gm99]

Wehrlein continuing Marussia/Manor's tradition of doing well at Monaco.

[truefan72]

pit hamilton now!

[Koz]

Oh crap. Lewis is done. No way we'll be getting to slicks for 5+ laps at least.

[Zico]

What is he thinking.. He's not going to try and wait for slicks?

[Nitrodaze]

You don't have to be an expert to see that Mercedes have given Lewis a crappy strategy.

[Zico]

The mechanics were out waiting and Lewis drove by..

[truefan72]

hmm, i;m not use hmailton has this right. i think he is staying out to go straight to the slicks. this is a big gamble
but if he gets it right, that would be brilliant, but there is alos a big chance he will ge this wrong.
fascinating

[Nitrodaze]

It looks ballsy and daft at the same time

[Nitrodaze]

So far it seems to be working

[truefan72]

more uselss pitstops from mercedes for hamilton SMH

[Koz]

OMFG! Red Bull WTF!

[truefan72]

wow RBR?????
wow. madness from the team. madness!

[gm99]

Red Bull crew just lost the race...

[Nitrodaze]

Genius!

[gm99]

Magnussen is a bit useless around Monaco.

[Tazio]

Crashtapen ;)

[Nitrodaze]

Its not over yet, Ricciado looks more comfortable than Lewis. He may win this yet

[Zico]

RBR major mistake, was them that threw it away rather than a great decision for Lewis. Lewis on ultrasofts tho, will they last?

[Warriwa]

The RAGE!!! Two wins in a row the team have screwed Ricco out of!

[Zico]

He can win it yet..

[Zico]

Hamilton under investigation..

[Nitrodaze]

Whats happened to Ferrari? They just seem to be disappearing backwards

[Zico]

Go Fernando!!

[Nitrodaze]

This is a great showing by the Mclaren. Alonso holding back Rosberg would have been unthinkable last year.
Go Mclaren!

[AndyL]

Brilliant drive by Perez for Force India. Good strategy to get the place by being the first to pit for slicks, and he has been on the leaders' pace ever since.

[AndyL]

Great opportunism by Hulk as the rain fell on the last lap! Great day for Force India. The only team with 2 cars in the top 6!

[truefan72]

stupid race director shows alonso cruising instead of the rosberg hulkenberg fight SMH

[truefan72]

great day for Force india and Mclaren
btw i blame nasr for the sauber collision. not necessarily the collision itself but his obstinence that precipitated the collision by his refusal to yield

[The Black Knight]

stupid race director shows alonso cruising instead of the rosberg hulkenberg fight SMH

Yeah I'm convinced they have gone with the cheapest option of a race director and chosen someone who is mentally retarded every time. The race directing has been shite for years now.

What a race though - one of the best Monaco GP's in years. Definitely one of Hamilton's best ever drives, what he did on the wets was amazing.

[keysersoze]

Broadcast team lauding Sergio finishing 3rd, but failed to note that Perez closed an 8 second gap to Ricciardo to 4 seconds with 4-5 laps to go, and finished about a second behind him.

[truefan72]

laughing at ricciardo's antics on the podium.
I'm sure if it was hamilton doing it, the forum would light up with all sorts of comments

[Nitrodaze]

This a track that gives a great indication of chassis pecking order. Clearly the Redbull is ahead of the Mercedes by a whisker. Then there is a small gap to Ferrari. The Force India was very respectably there about the Ferrari. But the Mclaren clearly have a great chassis to finish 5th with Alonso.

[N4D13]

Boy, am I angry at the Red Bull and Toro Rosso pitcrews. They've managed to turn what could have been a win and a maiden podium for Sainz (who was leading Pérez before the first round of stops) into a second place and an eighth. :-/

[truefan72]

wow. ricciardo in the interviews absolutely throwing his team under the bus. I don;t blame him though and i like that honesty. We shall see how the "internets" and media react to that

[Nitrodaze]

Boy, am I angry at the Red Bull and Toro Rosso pitcrews. They've managed to turn what could have been a win and a maiden podium for Sainz (who was leading Pérez before the first round of stops) into a second place and an eighth. :-/
I have to agree with that. They had a brain faze. Ricciado is not impressed, l would be too if l was him. RB are normally well on the ball with strategy, normally very exemplary, but they got it well wrong.

[keysersoze]

Boy, am I angry at the Red Bull and Toro Rosso pitcrews. They've managed to turn what could have been a win and a maiden podium for Sainz (who was leading Pérez before the first round of stops) into a second place and an eighth. :-/

Sergio leapfrogged Carlos, his teammate, Vettel, and Rosberg on that switch to intermediates. Spectacular call by the team.

[keysersoze]

Broadcast team lauding Sergio finishing 3rd, but failed to note that Perez closed an 8 second gap to Ricciardo to 4 seconds with 4-5 laps to go, and finished about a second behind him.

Just saw the final running order with gaps. It was different from the streaming order, which showed Perez one second behind Ricciardo on the final lap. Sorry about the mis-statement.

[Nitrodaze]

wow. ricciardo in the interviews absolutely throwing his team under the bus. I don;t blame him though and i like that honesty. We shall see how the "internets" and media react to that

They screwed him twice now. He is well within his right to be crossed with this. It hurt because it was in the bag but for a basic mistake in communication. I am quite gutted for him.

[truefan72]

i think it was a late call from RBR to switch from ultra soft to super soft. I'm sure they had the ultra's ready, but then made the late late cal.
Anyway he still had some opportunities to pass and locked up several times ruining his tires at the end.
Plus if he kept a cool head he might have had an opportunity in the last couple of laps as Hamilton said his tires were on the cliff at the end...plus the rain.

Now he probably feels how Hamilton felt last year. up by 30 seconds and finishing 3rd due to a pathetic pit call

[N4D13]

Sergio leapfrogged Carlos, his teammate, Vettel, and Rosberg on that switch to intermediates. Spectacular call by the team.
True, but you might have probably missed that Sainz had a very slow pitstop. Pérez wouldn't have been able to overtake him otherwise, hence my complaint.

[The Black Knight]

This a track that gives a great indication of chassis pecking order. Clearly the Redbull is ahead of the Mercedes by a whisker. Then there is a small gap to Ferrari. The Force India was very respectably there about the Ferrari. But the Mclaren clearly have a great chassis to finish 5th with Alonso.

It's not got anything to do with chassis pecking order. Barcelona sets the standard for chassis and Mercedes were miles ahead of RBR there. That was a gap that can't be explained away by engine.

Monaco shows they have great traction and that's about it. This horse shit about people assuming that RBR have the best chassis just because Newey designed it is irritating. You all ignore that Newey has made some stinkers in the past. It has no foundation and the results this year clearly show that Mercedes still have both the best engine and chassis.

[Nitrodaze]

What about amazing Perez? A well deserved podium taming a rapid Vettel in the process.

[dj_bytedisaster]

wow. ricciardo in the interviews absolutely throwing his team under the bus. I don;t blame him though and i like that honesty. We shall see how the "internets" and media react to that

To which I say "Welcome Mate". That's how your team mate felt in 2014 when they stole his win in Canada, told him his chassis was cracked after Bahrain and "apologized" after fucking up his strat in Monza. I think Mr. Ricciardo starts to realize what it is like when you've fallen out of favor...

[Ranger]

It was a pathetic error by the RBR pit crew. Inexcusable. Cost Ricciardo the race without doubt.

Almost as bad as Eddie Irvine incident in France 1999.

[Nitrodaze]

It's not got anything to do with chassis pecking order. Barcelona sets the standard for chassis and Mercedes were miles ahead of RBR there. That was a gap that can't be explained away by engine.

Monaco shows they have great traction and that's about it.

Traction depends on great balance and downforce. The chassis must be great round corners here in Monaco and be able to get the tyres to work well within the window of the tyres. Chassis has plenty to do with it buddy.

[truefan72]

wow toto struggling to admit it was hamilton's call to stay out. smh

[dj_bytedisaster]

Ouch. Austrian TV is pilloring Red Bull and Merc big time...But then half of their population nearly voted a Nazi for president last week, so maybe your shouldn't pay too much attention to them.

[Bagwan]

Sometimes they throw it into the wall and need to apologize to the team , and sometimes the team does things like this and needs to say they are sorry to the driver .
He needs to remember that .

He still got second at Monaco , and where was his team mate ?

He should still be able to get a smile out .

[dj_bytedisaster]

It was a pathetic error by the RBR pit crew. Inexcusable. Cost Ricciardo the race without doubt.

Almost as bad as Eddie Irvine incident in France 1999.

Happens if you fall out of favor with them

[dj_bytedisaster]

Sometimes they throw it into the wall and need to apologize to the team , and sometimes the team does things like this and needs to say they are sorry to the driver .
He needs to remember that .

He still got second at Monaco , and where was his team mate ?

He should still be able to get a smile out .

Nope those things only happen at RB if they no longer have any use for you.

[The Black Knight]

Traction depends on great balance and downforce. The chassis must be great round corners here in Monaco and be able to get the tyres to work well within the window of the tyres. Chassis has plenty to do with it buddy.

No traction is to do with the power out through the wheels. The now Renault team have always been lauded with having great traction all the way back to the days on Benneton but have made some stinkers chassis throughout the years.

There is no proof, apart from RBR blowing their own trumpet, that RBR has the best chassis. Just because Newey designed it doesn't default that it is best and they were a vastly off the pace in Barcelona, a highly aero dependant track. That gap was down to chassis and they were miles off Mercedes pace.

[Bagwan]

I was surprised Daniel didn't mention the incident that was investigated between Lewis and himself early on .
I certainly want to look at that one again .

[truefan72]

I was surprised Daniel didn't mention the incident that was investigated between Lewis and himself early on .
I certainly want to look at that one again .

because it was nothing

[dj_bytedisaster]

I was surprised Daniel didn't mention the incident that was investigated between Lewis and himself early on .
I certainly want to look at that one again .

There's not much to look at. Lewis cut the chicane, got an advantage( i.e. staying ahead) and wasn't penalized. His "cheating" team mate handled the situation better when battling with Alonso. But you don't get points for that, so ...

[dj_bytedisaster]

because it was nothing

only cheating. But that's something only his team mate does...

[Whyzars]

Nope those things only happen at RB if they no longer have any use for you.

That's a big call dj.

Lets wait and see if one of the techie's gets kicked to the kerb. I somehow don't think there'll be a third time Daniel will be screwed over by a dumbo mistake.

My view is that Ricciardo should've cracked a smile and Hamilton should not have been carrying on during the national anthems but that's just me...

[dj_bytedisaster]

BTW. According to Toto On ORF 1 (Austria) they taped Rosberg's brerak ducts and therefore neither brakes nor tyres ever got to temperature. Interesting that taping brake ducts has an influence on tyres.

[Bagwan]

Nope those things only happen at RB if they no longer have any use for you.

Perhaps , but an incident like like this makes them look like fools already without him pointing it out .

Remember , it was long before the screw up that the wee Dutchman put it in the wall , so there was no distraction in the pit .
You really look the fool if you throw the race win to make a driver who's out look better .

Maybe last time out , but I don't buy the conspiracy theory this time , dj .

[The Black Knight]

BTW. According to Toto On ORF 1 (Austria) they taped Rosberg's brerak ducts and therefore neither brakes nor tyres ever got to temperature. Interesting that taping brake ducts has an influence on tyres.

It was the same on both cars, Lewis had the same issues, just that he drove around it better than Nico did on this occasion

[dj_bytedisaster]

That's a big call dj.

Lets wait and see if one of the techie's gets kicked to the kerb. I somehow don't think there'll be a third time Daniel will be screwed over by a dumbo mistake.

My view is that Ricciardo should've cracked a smile and Hamilton should not have been carrying on like Bieber's bitch during the national anthems but that's just me...

Seb got screwed five times in 2014:

- cracked chassis in Bahrain
- stolen win in Canada
- RIC got entire Bahrain test
- Cracked chassis again in Spa
- Fucked up strat in Monza

I think Mr. RIC will end up to find this season thoroughly unsatisfactory because Mr. Marko has found a new favourite boy. even if he has a habit of piling into Armcos.

[Tazio]

Sometimes they throw it into the wall and need to apologize to the team , and sometimes the team does things like this and needs to say they are sorry to the driver .
He needs to remember that .

He still got second at Monaco , and where was his team mate ?

He should still be able to get a smile out .His team righteously screwed him, he has every right to be pissed off. Nobody remembers 2nd place.

[Bagwan]

BTW. According to Toto On ORF 1 (Austria) they taped Rosberg's brerak ducts and therefore neither brakes nor tyres ever got to temperature. Interesting that taping brake ducts has an influence on tyres.

Did they do this to Hamilton's brake ducts as well ?
If not , there's your conspiracy theory start-up right there .

[dj_bytedisaster]

It was the same on both cars, Lewis had the same issues, just that he drove around it better than Nico did on this occasion

Not according to Toto.

[The Black Knight]

That's a big call dj.

Lets wait and see if one of the techie's gets kicked to the kerb. I somehow don't think there'll be a third time Daniel will be screwed over by a dumbo mistake.

My view is that Ricciardo should've cracked a smile and Hamilton should not have been carrying on like Bieber's bitch during the national anthems but that's just me...

Why should a driver crack a smile when they aren't happy? I'd much rather drivers not be robots than ply the PR game. Be human and show it is what I say!

[The Black Knight]

Not according to Toto.

He said otherwise on Sky sports and clearly stated both drivers had the same issue but affected Rosberg more I.e he couldn't handle it

[dj_bytedisaster]

Did they do this to Hamilton's brake ducts as well ?
If not , there's your conspiracy theory start-up right there .

Nope. Only on Rosberg's car and Toto as awfully uncomfortable because the Austrians hate Hamilton. But then, Austrians hate everyone who isnt Aryan enough...

[dj_bytedisaster]

He said otherwise on Sky sports and clearly stated both drivers had the same issue but affected Rosberg more I.e he couldn't handle it

Welcome to Mercedes PR tactics. Their statements on German speaking TV (RTL, ORF) are usually widely different from what they say on Sky. The reason is simple. They have to cater to Sky's pathological Hamilton fetish and the German speaking media are by default pro-Rosberg.

[Bagwan]

There's not much to look at. Lewis cut the chicane, got an advantage( i.e. staying ahead) and wasn't penalized. His "cheating" team mate handled the situation better when battling with Alonso. But you don't get points for that, so ...

That's kind of what I saw as well .

This was combined though , with a squeeze outside , whilst Daniel had more of his front wing alongside than Hamilton did in the last race where he and Nico came together .
Daniel backed out , even though he was farther along side .

When that happens just after missing the chicane , it's hard to understand why he wasn't penalized , given last race's reasoning .

[Whyzars]

Why should a driver crack a smile when they aren't happy? I'd much rather drivers not be robots than ply the PR game. Be human and show it is what I say!

Its not about the PR game rather its about having a sense of occasion.

Driver behaviour on the podium's is not improving and borders on disrespectful at times - its not as if the drivers have paid for anything or hosted anything or are irreplaceable.

Maybe the drivers need to be reminded that they are sports people first.

[Bagwan]

Daniel could have said almost all that he did say , and finished it off with "but , in the end , we lost this win as a team ."

It's alright for him to express that he's mad , but he'll need to trust the apology , because he and every other driver needs to trust his own team .
Utter petulance right now will only make him look like an 18 year old who feels entitled .

[Whyzars]

...When that happens just after missing the chicane , it's hard to understand why he wasn't penalized , given last race's reasoning .

+1

Stick a pile of tyres at that chicane and problem solved...

[Nitrodaze]

Daniel could have said almost all that he did say , and finished it off with "but , in the end , we lost this win as a team ."

It's alright for him to express that he's mad , but he'll need to trust the apology , because he and every other driver needs to trust his own team .
Utter petulance right now will only make him look like an 18 year old who feels entitled .

I think he would look more like a fool if after being screwed twice (Barcelona and Monaco) from winning races that he had in hand, he gives us his usual smile and appear not peaved by the situation.

Opportunities may be few and far between in the future races, you really never know, hence missing the ones that he clearly sees were there for the taking if everything else were ok or done right, is very hard to take. He is well within his rights to moans about it. I really don't see anything wrong with that. RB f**ked up to the win for Ricciado.

That said, l really don't think Ricciado has fallen out of favor with the Redbull team. He is still their best chance of winning their next constructor and driver titles. It would be quite daft for RB to styme their best asset. Hence the conspiracy theory does not add up.

[Whyzars]

... RB f**ked up to the win for Ricciado.


You win as a team and lose on your own.

If the car God's were smiling he would have passed Hamilton and won. Hopefully the poor sod in the team who may have screwed up doesn't lose his job because the talent has fingered him.

I'm sorry but I don't think it is very becoming when a gifted athlete does the equivalent of holding his breath on the podium.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think he would look more like a fool if after being screwed twice (Barcelona and Monaco) from winning races that he had in hand, he gives us his usual smile and appear not peaved by the situation.

Opportunities may be few and far between in the future races, you really never know, hence missing the ones that he clearly sees were there for the taking if everything else were ok or done right, is very hard to take. He is well within his rights to moans about it. I really don't see anything wrong with that. RB f**ked up to the win for Ricciado.

That said, l really don't think Ricciado has fallen out of favor with the Redbull team. He is still their best chance of winning their next constructor and driver titles. It would be quite daft for RB to styme their best asset. Hence the conspiracy theory does not add up.

I think Mr. RIcciardo is experiencing a sense of entitlement that is thoroughly undeserved. He has won three races, one less than his former team mate has world championship titles and one of those wins was stolen from his team mate and one down to safety car lottery. He might think he's better than he really is and considering his team mate in 2014 was screwed over a lot worse than he, I can't remember Vettel staging such a public temper tantrum. He seems to forget that without RB he would still be racing god knows where, but certainly not F1.

[Nitrodaze]

You win as a team and lose on your own.

That is a beautiful quote and so true. But give Ricciado a break. If RB gives him the support he deserves, he would most certainly be world champion in the near future.

[dj_bytedisaster]

That is a beautiful quote and so true. But give Ricciado a break. If RB gives him the support he deserves, he would most certainly be world champion in the near future.

*Snort* Support and RB only belong in the same sentence if you are Mr. Marko's favorite boy, which Danny isn't anymore since they got that dutch kid. Call Maranello, ask for Seb. He'll tell you how that works. Apart from that the race was rather frustratinjg. The Merc team order against Rosberg was a clear sign that he isn't supposed to win anything. The race being started behind the SC is sign that F1 is run by wussies.

[Big Ben]

i think it was a late call from RBR to switch from ultra soft to super soft. I'm sure they had the ultra's ready, but then made the late late cal.
Anyway he still had some opportunities to pass and locked up several times ruining his tires at the end.
Plus if he kept a cool head he might have had an opportunity in the last couple of laps as Hamilton said his tires were on the cliff at the end...plus the rain.

Now he probably feels how Hamilton felt last year. up by 30 seconds and finishing 3rd due to a pathetic pit call
Do you have any opinion about anyone or anything that isn't somehow based or related to Hamilton?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Big Ben]

To which I say "Welcome Mate". That's how your team mate felt in 2014 when they stole his win in Canada, told him his chassis was cracked after Bahrain and "apologized" after fucking up his strat in Monza. I think Mr. Ricciardo starts to realize what it is like when you've fallen out of favor...
And the vettel obsessed version

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[dj_bytedisaster]

Do you have any opinion about anyone or anything that isn't somehow based or related to Hamilton?

Not really. His life is so sad he has to live Lewis's by proxy,

[dj_bytedisaster]

And the vettel obsessed version

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Just telling Danny what he has to expect, because we've seen it before. I would say I'm not obsessed with Vettel. Unlike those who wank over Lewis, I actually met the man, so I've got a reason to like him. Liking a driver is okay, that's what the sport thrives on. It becomes unhealthy if you give up your life to live through someone else's.

[henners88]

Good race, well done Lewis on a determined and clean drive.

Threads like this are embarrassing for the forum though.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Good race, well done Lewis on a determined and clean drive.

Threads like this are embarrassing for the forum though.

Why? people express their opinion. Isn't that what it is about?

[henners88]

Why? people express their opinion. Isn't that what it is about?

Opinions are what forums are all about but the fanboy conspiracy rubbish on this thread repeated over and over has been embarrassing reading.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Opinions are what forums are all about but the fanboy conspiracy rubbish on this thread repeated over and over has been embarrassing reading.

You haven't been around much lately, have you? ;)

[N. Jones]

Good race. Sad that Daniel didn't win.

[Nitrodaze]

We talk about drivers and strategies etc. But the stewards of the Monaco GP were the best l have witnessed in while. They could have spoilt the race by slapping penalties left right and center. But instead they were very measured and recognized racing incident where it was deservedly so. They did a great job. And the marshalls, how quickly they mopped up the carnage today was exemplary. And they definitely were taken through their paces weren't they?

[dj_bytedisaster]

We talk about drivers and strategies etc. But the stewards of the Monaco GP were the best l have witnessed in while. They could have spoilt the race by slapping penalties left right and center. But instead they were very measured and recognized racing incident where it was deservedly so. They did a great job. And the marshalls, how quickly they mopped up the carnage today was exemplary. And they definitely were taken through their paces weren't they?

The stewards were as inconsistent as always.

[Nem14]

Red Bull.
At the pinnacle level of auto racing their driver comes in for tires - and the needed tires are stuck in the back of the pit.
LMFAO.

Comparing an unprepared pit crew to a driver who crashes by exceeding the limit by a hair is ludicrous.

[Barreis]

Red Bull sucked (this time)...

[COD]

So the ladyboy won because Ricciardo was given wings, insted of tyres. What a disaster for the former championship team.

[driveace]

Is someone sulking after today's result ?

[Zico]

Come on guys, let's have less of the name calling, you're better than this.


Great race, it had it all. So many great individual performances that choosing a single DOTR is impossible. Ric, Hamilton, Perez and Alo all equally deserving I think.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Come on guys, let's have less of the name calling, you're better than this.


Great race, it had it all. So many great individual performances that choosing a single DOTR is impossible. Ric, Hamilton, Perez and Alo all equally deserving I think.

I think Perez sticks out the most. There was a time when Hulk was lauded as the next best thing and Checo simply mops the floor with him this year.

[steveaki13]

I have to agree with Henners on this occasion.

The clear pro Hamilton fans at the expense of anything else and the clear anti anything to do with Hamilton fans are becoming embarrassing

Reading through after watching a cracking race this morning, I reckon 9 of the 14 pages are all either fan boy posts or anti fan boy posts.

Makes me just skim most of what has been said:confused:

[steveaki13]

Anyway for the race itself I thought it was maybe the best Monaco GP since 2008? and the last wet race. 2010? or 2011 was good too.

Hamilton drove really well, to handle the car from wets straight to slicks was amazing. Not sure I have ever seen that done.

Ricciardo however was massively unlucky. He hounded Hamilton to make a great race and should have won but for Red Bulls inability to find some tyres. What surprised me was Lewis pitted for drys right ahead of Daniel and yet despite a long long stop Ricciardo exited the pits just behind him. A normal stop and he would have easily rejoined ahead. Not sure why Hamilton was so slow.

Perez was exceptional too. Played the conditions just right and got a great podium.

Alonso done a good job too. 5th and lots of points. I dont know if Rosberg had a problem? He was slow at the start on a wet track, then couldn't even stay close to Alonso in the last 20 laps.

Plus I never really saw what happened on the last corner? Did Rosberg slow to early or just get a bad run.

I also agree with someone above who said they were happy with less penalties. I have said for a long time, I get fed up with nanny state and so many penalties. Definitely better to see less being given in race. This should be the outlook at every race.

I also think Charlie Whiting needs to retire. No need for 8 laps under SC at the start. 1 or 2 at most. To be honest could have gone for a proper start like we used to.

I enjoyed the race a lot.

[dj_bytedisaster]

That race is best described by a four-letter-word that starts with S and ends with T - and it isn't 'soot'. Not because of the winner or the weather. Just because it embarrassed so many people.

First: Whiting. Seriously? Eight laps behind the SC? These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world. On a day when there was the Indy 500 and the Nürburgring 24h, F1 was made to look like a bunch of Eunuchs.

Second: Ferrari. Seriously? What the heck were you doing this weekend? And Vettel? How much more lacklustre can you drive? Seriously...

Third: Max Verstappen. Reality Check, kiddo. That funny noise you seem to find so interesting is the noise your car makes when it disintegrates after hitting the armco. Three crashes in one weekend. We haven't seen that since Maldonado left. An absolutely abysmal job that just emphasized how worthless your gifted win was at Barcelona. Need to do better than that, mate.

Fourth: Rosberg. The hell, man? Have you taken leave of your senses? You have ONE opponent and you follow team orders to let him pass? In a race where you can even defend your position even when you're three seconds slower? What's the point of trying to become world champion if you're not even trying? The very guy you let pass would have ignored the team order as he has done so often in the past. What in the wild world of sports are you trying to achieve by playing the team game when the other half doesn't and runs off with the silverware? Grow a pair, will you?

Five: Merc. Seriously? What's the point in being the bloody championship leader when you tell him to let pass his only realistic competitor? How much more obvious can you tell a driver that he's the 'wrong winner'?

Six: Red Bull. 'Nuff said. Danny, call Maranello and ask for Seb. He'll tell you what this is all about.

Seven: McLaren. LOL. Podium, my arse... Eric The Believable must feel like a complete and utter idiot now after his 'bald statements' last week.

Too bad there was no donkey of the race thread. We could have nominated the whole lot of them.

[henners88]

Anyway for the race itself I thought it was maybe the best Monaco GP since 2008? and the last wet race. 2010? or 2011 was good too.

Hamilton drove really well, to handle the car from wets straight to slicks was amazing. Not sure I have ever seen that done.

Ricciardo however was massively unlucky. He hounded Hamilton to make a great race and should have won but for Red Bulls inability to find some tyres. What surprised me was Lewis pitted for drys right ahead of Daniel and yet despite a long long stop Ricciardo exited the pits just behind him. A normal stop and he would have easily rejoined ahead. Not sure why Hamilton was so slow.

Perez was exceptional too. Played the conditions just right and got a great podium.

Alonso done a good job too. 5th and lots of points. I dont know if Rosberg had a problem? He was slow at the start on a wet track, then couldn't even stay close to Alonso in the last 20 laps.

Plus I never really saw what happened on the last corner? Did Rosberg slow to early or just get a bad run.

I also agree with someone above who said they were happy with less penalties. I have said for a long time, I get fed up with nanny state and so many penalties. Definitely better to see less being given in race. This should be the outlook at every race.

I also think Charlie Whiting needs to retire. No need for 8 laps under SC at the start. 1 or 2 at most. To be honest could have gone for a proper start like we used to.

I enjoyed the race a lot.

Yeah it was a good race with plenty of suspense. I felt sorry for Daniel as the teams cock up cost him the race and that's even more of a bitter pill to swallow at Monaco.

Hamilton was pretty solid apart from that period during the Red Bull pit and I don't know either why he lost so much time?

An enjoyable race though nonetheless.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Plus I never really saw what happened on the last corner? Did Rosberg slow to early or just get a bad run.


Rosberg's car was completely messed up. According to Wolff they taped the brake ducts wrong (whatever that means), which meant that he never got tyres and brakes up to working temperatures (hence the abysmal lack of pace right from the start).

Interesting theory from Alex Wurz on ORF though: He straight-forwardly said that Toto was not telling the entire truth and that the taping most likely caused the brakes to overheat and the discs were glazing. As for the last corner: Rosberg didn't manage to get the tyres warmed up all race. When it started raining in the closing laps, the already cold tyres cooled even more and he had no grip whatsoever, so Hulk simply out-accelerated him.

BTW. Hulk was equally shafted as Danny was. Team apologized for messing up what should have been Hulk's podium. Instead Perez got it. I'd be a trifle po'ed about that, and he was, badly. That interview on German TV was, lets say, not a very diplomatic one.

[Mintexmemory]

Rosberg. The hell, man? Have you taken leave of your senses? You have ONE opponent and you follow team orders to let him pass? In a race where you can even defend your position even when you're three seconds slower? What's the point of trying to become world champion if you're not even trying? The very guy you let pass would have ignored the team order as he has done so often in the past. What in the wild world of sports are you trying to achieve by playing the team game when the other half doesn't and runs off with the silverware? Grow a pair, will you?



Which Team Orders has Hamilton ignored in the past? Just as many as Rosberg I'd venture. At least the THREE TIMES CHAMP has never pulled the 'let's end Q3 early by spinning' trick.
What you saw yesterday was a driver who simply doesn't have the cojones for a wet race and one that comes into his own when balance and touch become a premium rather than gizmo management. Hulk rubbed that fact in when he decided tippy toe driving wasn't warranted with just a few spits!!
To address points made elsewhere, clearly the Merc chassis is behind the RBR -witness the inability to make the tyres perform from cool - the reason for Hamilton's very slow out lap on the US and how RIC almost jumped him on the restarts.
As for the chicane incident - at least it was consistent with the Barca decision though on this occasion RIC needed to realise that Hamilton was in an unstable state exiting the chicane - I don't think there was a deliberate squeeze in the manner that the aquaphobic one did 2 weeks ago.
It would have been interesting had Hamilton been behind RIC after the stops. Given the clear power advantage the Merc had in the DRS zone it isn't a given that the Red Bull would have kept ahead.
I thought it was a great 'race' and agree that it showed up the men from the boys from the over the hills from the never wills.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Which Team Orders has Hamilton ignored in the past?

Watch Hungary 2014. Also, I don't know which race it was (Spain 2015 I think), where he was told to save the engine by switching to Strat-mode six, the same that Nico in the lead was told to use (and used). Lewis ignored three clear orders to go from Strat-10 to Strat-6 trying to close in on Rosberg. The team then told Nico to go up to Strat-10 as well. There was another incident where the team told him to come in and he ignored them until his engineer told him that they would give Nico the undercut if he doesn't come in. And that's just three examples I readily remember.

As for your rant about Rosberg. Cut the hate, man, his car was completely messed up. I don't think Toto would apologize for it if it wasn't the team's fault. Lewis might be somewhat better in the rain, but he is not three seconds better, even a certified Hamfosi would not claim something like that.

[zako85]

Dj,

Giving Rosberg a team order to let his teammate through just as Rosberg's slow car was about to create a long train of following cars, while Ricciardo was allowed to run away for the win right from the beginning of the race, was certainly a smart thing to do. The goal of any team is to win a race rather than create a colorful fight on the track for the fans while letting the race leader get away.

The GP of Monaco was certainly underwhelming because of Red Bull's pit crew mistake. Many, many people were so oh disappointed about this, but I wonder if these were the same people who were cheering when a bad race engineer call at the last year's Monaco GP made Hamilton lose his certain win. This random crap always happens in racing.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Dj,

Giving Rosberg a team order to let his teammate through just as Rosberg's slow car was about to create a long train of following cars, while Ricciardo was allowed to run away for the win right from the beginning of the race, was certainly a smart thing to do. The goal of any team is to win a race rather than create a colorful fight on the track for the fans while letting the race leader get away.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. Most other drivers, including Hamilton himself, would have told the team where to shove it. What if Rosberg loses the championship by less than seven points? Seven points he wouldn't have lost if he had held Lewis behind him long enough for Ricciardo to escape? It would mean that he would still be 31 points ahead instead of 24. Two of Vettels four titles have been won by less than that small margin.

I have no idea why Rosberg does that to begin with. Everybody knows that, if the roles were reversed, there would be no chance in hell that Lewis would have followed such an order. So what's the point? There's no prize for being a team-player, especially not when your opponent doesn't play by the same rules.

[Bagwan]

No , dj , Nico would have been pilloried by all and sundry , had he decided to hold Lewis up any longer .

He knew he was slow and he didn't have any answer , other than to do the honourable thing .

I guess he now knows why he was slow , with brake ducts taped too much .
Hopefully , they'll give him enough justification on why his were as they were , different from the other car .

[Firstgear]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. Most other drivers, including Hamilton himself, would have told the team where to shove it. What if Rosberg loses the championship by less than seven points? Seven points he wouldn't have lost if he had held Lewis behind him long enough for Ricciardo to escape? It would mean that he would still be 31 points ahead instead of 24. Two of Vettels four titles have been won by less than that small margin.

I have no idea why Rosberg does that to begin with. Everybody knows that, if the roles were reversed, there would be no chance in hell that Lewis would have followed such an order. So what's the point? There's no prize for being a team-player, especially not when your opponent doesn't play by the same rules.

He did hold Lewis back long enough. But the RBR pit crew and Lewis skipping the inters changed that.

[dj_bytedisaster]

No , dj , Nico would have been pilloried by all and sundry , had he decided to hold Lewis up any longer .

He knew he was slow and he didn't have any answer , other than to do the honourable thing

We'll see if he'll still find it to be a good idea should he lose the championship by, let's say 5 points. Then those seven points that RIC would have stolen off Lewis will be sorely missed. Championships are decided not on the days where things go well, but on those days when something isn't right. Imagine it would have been Lewis who'd been asked to let Rosberg drive past. Not counting that he would never have done that anyway, his fanbase would have made the internet explode over the team's decision. I think that's why they dared giving that order. They knew that only Nico would obey something like that. I think, even in a compromised car, you should be allowed to race and Monaco is a track where he could have managed to keep his position, even in a car that was a second or two off the pace.


I guess he now knows why he was slow , with brake ducts taped too much .
Hopefully , they'll give him enough justification on why his were as they were , different from the other car .

I don't think there really is a justification, other than it being a bad team mistake, as Toto admitted after the race. They also praised Nico's team-player qualities, but sadly such things aren't rewarded in F1. Had he been allowed to keep Lewis behind until he would inevitably be passed through pitstops not even RB's blunder could have prevented RIC's win and he would still have 31 points lead instead of 24. Even with Lewis's engine-related grid drops looming on the horizon, Rosberg's chances to win the title have just massively reduced.

[zako85]

What if Rosberg loses the championship by less than seven points?

If Rosberg loses the championship by 7 points, then that's not going to be a big deal for the team. They take the double championship title wins (constructor and driver) as well as the Monaco GP win. Nobody is going to lose sleep over letting Hamiltoon overtake a wounded Rosberg car as early as the Monaco GP in the season.

Morevoer, if Hamilton wins only by seven points then that's going to be a really interesting season!

[Mintexmemory]

I love the Merc spin machine! (This is not a rant by the way !) Is Toto going to say to the press 'Nico couldn't get the tyres to work because he cannot handle damp conditions' - Of course not.

[Barreis]

If Rosberg loses the championship by 7 points, then that's not going to be a big deal for the team. They take the double championship title wins (constructor and driver) as well as the Monaco GP win. Nobody is going to lose sleep over letting Hamiltoon overtake a wounded Rosberg car as early as the Monaco GP in the season.

Morevoer, if Hamilton wins only by seven points then that's going to be a really interesting season!
Rosberg's car was hardly wounded. Pure lack of confidance...

[The Black Knight]

Which Team Orders has Hamilton ignored in the past? Just as many as Rosberg I'd venture. At least the THREE TIMES CHAMP has never pulled the 'let's end Q3 early by spinning' trick.
What you saw yesterday was a driver who simply doesn't have the cojones for a wet race and one that comes into his own when balance and touch become a premium rather than gizmo management. Hulk rubbed that fact in when he decided tippy toe driving wasn't warranted with just a few spits!!
To address points made elsewhere, clearly the Merc chassis is behind the RBR -witness the inability to make the tyres perform from cool - the reason for Hamilton's very slow out lap on the US and how RIC almost jumped him on the restarts.
As for the chicane incident - at least it was consistent with the Barca decision though on this occasion RIC needed to realise that Hamilton was in an unstable state exiting the chicane - I don't think there was a deliberate squeeze in the manner that the aquaphobic one did 2 weeks ago.
It would have been interesting had Hamilton been behind RIC after the stops. Given the clear power advantage the Merc had in the DRS zone it isn't a given that the Red Bull would have kept ahead.
I thought it was a great 'race' and agree that it showed up the men from the boys from the over the hills from the never wills.

I'd save your fingers for trying to reason with DJ here. He will take any incident he can involving Lewis and find an excuse to lay blame on him.

Regarding your chassis analysis, I am afraid you are incorrect in your assessment that RBR have the best chassis. They might have had a package better suited to Monaco but that alone doesn't and never has been a standard by which to assess best chassis.

Barcelona is where everyone sets their stall out. In fact, you can very clearly see the pecking order in terms of chassis in qualifying there:

Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari.

Ferrari's engine is better than RBR's but couldn't out qualify them because their chassis isn't as good.

The 7 tenths and 1 second to pole of both Ricciardo and Max respectively can't be explained off by engine alone. The RBR might be better in slow corners requiring great traction but in the medium to high speed corners Mercedes sets the standard and this is why they have the overall best chassis on the grid but RBR isn't far off.

[The Black Knight]

Rosberg's car was hardly wounded. Pure lack of confidance...

Yup, sometimes one driver drives around a problem better than the other. On this occasion it was Hamilton, there have been occasions where Rosberg has managed car problems better. It Ebs and flows!

Nothing more to see here!

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'd save your fingers for trying to reason with DJ here. He will take any incident he can involving Lewis and find an excuse to lay blame on him.


I beg to differ. You completely take my words out of context. In fact if you actually read the thread, you'll know that it started with me criticising Rosberg for moving over in the first place, because we all know that his team mate wouldn't do the same if the roles were reversed. And rolling over that easily is certainly not winning him the title.

[Starter]

I beg to differ. You completely take my words out of context. In fact if you actually read the thread, you'll know that it started with me criticising Rosberg for moving over in the first place, because we all know that his team mate wouldn't do the same if the roles were reversed. And rolling over that easily is certainly not winning him the title.
You may have forgotten that, while the drivers are in it for the title, the teams are in it for the money. There is no profit in accepting lower place finishes which affect both end of season payouts and next season's sponsorship. Rosberg was going to get passed by several drivers when he made a pit stop no matter how wide his car was up to that point. And the longer he held up the train the more cars would be bunched up to pass. It was much better to let Hamilton go for a try at the win.

[dj_bytedisaster]

You may have forgotten that, while the drivers are in it for the title, the teams are in it for the money. There is no profit in accepting lower place finishes which affect both end of season payouts and next season's sponsorship. Rosberg was going to get passed by several drivers when he made a pit stop no matter how wide his car was up to that point. And the longer he held up the train the more cars would be bunched up to pass. It was much better to let Hamilton go for a try at the win.

That is correct from a team's point of view, but not for the viewers and Bernie-money aside, F1 first and foremost is a spectator's sport and most viewers root for a driver, not a team (except perhaps the Tifosi). I woulod have understood that if Mercedes would be in any danger of not winning the WCC this year, but that isn't happening and it makes no difference in money if you win it with a 200 points margin or a 300 points margin. That is exactly the reason why Mercedes are extremely unpopular in Germany of all places. Many people feel like they stage-manage things way too much, especially given their hugely dominant position. Their car always struggled a bit on twisty tracks, but those are rare on the calendar.

And, as I said earlier, the internet would have melted down had it been Lewis in Rosberg's shoes. Just remember the multitude of conspiracy theories when Lewis didn't win any of the first seven races. Everybody and his dog kept harping on about how the team had given Lewis's mechanics to Nico and how that was the reason why his car kept on breaking down. Funnily enough it were the same mechanics who ballsed up Nico's car. Suddenly nobody demands anymore that Lewis gets his old mechanics back.

From a team perspective, I agree. But for most spectators it was unnecessary given how far ahead the Merc is on most tracks. This isn't 2012 or 2013 where RB can suddenly out-develop everybody as the engine disparity makes that practically impossible.

[henners88]

After Spain I think both Mercedes drivers would have been reminded they work for the team and not themselves. Toto made no secret that if they don't get along then one of them will have to leave too. No doubt Lewis will find himself in a position later this season where he has to give up his position so there is no point crying about it.

Lewis would have either passed Nico in the pit stops or forced a pass anyway so the order made sense in this instance and meant the team had a victory rather than just a podium, or at worse no points at all.

[dj_bytedisaster]

No doubt Lewis will find himself in a position later this season where he has to give up his position so there is no point crying about it.

Are you trying to imply that Lewis would follow such an order? ;) That would be the day hell freezes over. When he was asked something like that the last time, he didn't do it.

[driveace]

There is only one dirty driver out there,who couldnt perform in the best machinery on the track in the wet on Sunday And there is no defence

[The Black Knight]

Are you trying to imply that Lewis would follow such an order? ;) That would be the day hell freezes over. When he was asked something like that the last time, he didn't do it.

He didn't ignore anything the last time. He would have left Rosberg pass had he gotten close enough to not compromise Lewis race should Lewis have slowed down. Nico didn't. Completely different situations both of them.

[dj_bytedisaster]

He didn't ignore anything the last time. He would have left Rosberg pass had he gotten close enough to not compromise Lewis race should Lewis have slowed down. Nico didn't. Completely different situations both of them.

How come then, that as soon as he was reminded that he was expected to let Nico pass, his lap times went down? ;) He knew very well that the 2014 tyres were shot immediately if you did run too close behind another car. I understand that you as a Lewis fan try to spin it other way round, but he did ignore what had been a standing order within the team from the very start. He might not have blatantly said 'no' on the radio, like Verstappen did not too long ago, but on a track like Hungary it would have taken at least some slight lifting from Hamilton to let Nico pass. He didn't do that and it was deliberate and cost the team a possible double-podium.

They finished less than 2 seconds apart, which was about the minimum required distance to prevent the tyres from dying, so it wasn't like Rosberg was too slow. What Lewis achieved was gaining three measly points on the back of ignoring team interests, as he failed to overtake Alonso, something that Nico might have had a better chance at with his much fresher and softer tyres. So, all those who say letting Lewis past was better in the interest of the team, would have to criticise Lewis for ignoring the teams interests there. Rosberg was in a much better position to catch Alonso and perhaps even Ricciardo, who only finished some 5 seconds ahead of Lewis.

[henners88]

Hamilton has let teammates through in the past when instructed. He has also disagreed with orders, but these are racing drivers and sometimes behave badly in the heat of the moment. Nico has also refused orders but depending on the discussion we can choose what to remember.

[zako85]

This wasn't a bad race, but considering how everyone was pumped up about it, this was just another disappointment. Hamilton started third, but if he was to win the race, the fans would have wanted to see him fight and claw his way through the order. Instead we see Rosberg give up the spot because of technical problem and Ricciardo by pit crew incompetence. Hamilton certainly drove a perfect race, but so did Ricciardo for example. Another issue is the tires, Hamilton did great with just one pitstop. The ultrasofts lasted 40+ laps. Thanks Pirelli. Finally, a pretty anonymous weekend for Ferrari. Great result for Force India.

[jens]

I think the race proved that strategy really counted a lot, because it is almost impossible to pass (unless you are Max V.) and track position counted everything.

Inspired move by Hamilton to extend the stint of wets to try to beat Ricciardo on strategy. He still needed Danny-Boy to have a botched pitstop, but could keep him behind himself despite lapping 5 secs per lap slower at one point.

In the same way Ferrari threw Vettel into "Massa traffic" and that's how he lost the race to Pérez. Also Rosberg I think had a botched pitstop and dropped behind Alonso.

Anyway, a truly rubbish race by Rosberg. Considering he had a great car at his disposal, his individual race pace was probably slower than most of the field... I mean - he is title contender, early part of the season played the opportunity into his hands perfectly... and then he puts in ""such"" race. :crazy:

That's why I can't YET bank on Rosberg's WDC. Despite all the mess Hamilton is more talented of the two and still has a good chance of winning it. Even though various race starts and Spanish GP shows that Rosberg certainly has the depth to take a wheel-to-wheel fight against Hamilton.

[zako85]

Anyway, a truly rubbish race by Rosberg. Considering he had a great car at his disposal, his individual race pace was probably slower than most of the field..

Rosberg's car had a brake problem.

[Mintexmemory]

Rosberg's car had a brake problem.

Yep the driver kept braking too tentatively!!

[Starter]

Breaking news: Rosberg didn't use the brakes enough to get a break.

[Bagwan]

Rosberg's car had a brake problem.

He had a team-induced brake duct taping problem , whilst leading the championship , whilst also in contract negotiations in which he is trying to get more than half of the amount that they are paying the guy who hadn't won since last October until this race .

[Zico]

Bag, you ain't half cynical...
Don't you think they'd have just told him he was just not quick enough rather than make the duct taping excuse for his lack of pace?

[Bagwan]

Bag, you ain't half cynical...
Don't you think they'd have just told him he was just not quick enough rather than make the duct taping excuse for his lack of pace?

Well , maybe I am .

BUT , doing what you said would rob him of confidence .
This just robbed him of a win , and gave him a reason he was slow .

The really cynical side of me says that Merc just maybe showed them both that they can be unbalanced by just a little tape , even when they lead the championship .

[Mintexmemory]

Bag, you ain't half cynical...
Don't you think they'd have just told him he was just not quick enough rather than make the duct taping excuse for his lack of pace?

They probably did tell him that but that isn't something they would want to say to the adoring public; hence the tape excuse.

[Bagwan]

They probably did tell him that but that isn't something they would want to say to the adoring public; hence the tape excuse.

The pit crew were seen removing tape from Rosberg's ducts during a stop , and it was given as an excuse by the team for his lack of pace .
That the tape was there should not be in question .

Why , however , it was there on Rosberg's car , and different on Hamilton's , is .


And , let's get back to a question that Riccardo had about how Hamilton got away with cutting the chicane when under pressure , and not giving it up .
He was questioned about the squeeze on Daniel , but it seems , never about cutting the chicane .

[dj_bytedisaster]

Bag, you ain't half cynical...
Don't you think they'd have just told him he was just not quick enough rather than make the duct taping excuse for his lack of pace?

The tape wasn't an excuse. You can see them ripping it off during the pitstop. After that his pace upped again, but he was a) already trapped behind Alonso and b) his brake discs were already glazing. That last info came from Alex Wurz, who is commentating for ORF.

[henners88]

The pit crew were seen removing tape from Rosberg's ducts during a stop , and it was given as an excuse by the team for his lack of pace .
That the tape was there should not be in question .

Why , however , it was there on Rosberg's car , and different on Hamilton's , is .


And , let's get back to a question that Riccardo had about how Hamilton got away with cutting the chicane when under pressure , and not giving it up .
He was questioned about the squeeze on Daniel , but it seems , never about cutting the chicane .

Drivers only get a warning if they cut a chicane twice. If they do it a third time then they get a drive through penalty. As Lewis only did it once, it wasn't deemed a topic for the stewards.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Drivers only get a warning if they cut a chicane twice. If they do it a third time then they get a drive through penalty. As Lewis only did it once, it wasn't deemed a topic for the stewards.

Not if you gain an advantage, and keeping your position is a bloody big advantage. The problem is, how do you handle it? Normally you have to reliquish any advantage you get. That's an easy thing to do if you gain a position, you give it back. Several drivers did that, like Rosberg, after he overtook Alonso but didn't make the chicane. But what to do in this case? Forcing him to let RIC past is harsh as we have no way of knowing if Danny would have successfully overtaken had Lewis braked in time. And that's the problem. There is a good chance that he only kept his lead because of cutting the chicane, but we cannot know for sure and that's why he kept his position. Doesn't make it fair. Rosberg got away with the same at Canada last year.

[henners88]

Hamilton may have kept his position but it was not enough of an advantage nor was it deliberate. I don't think it was likely Daniel would have taken the position had Lewis not cut the chicane, but that is my view and perhaps the one of the stewards on this occasion.

[driveace]

Let's just think about taping the brake ducts .All open wheel racing cars have air ducts to cool the brakes as they can reach incredible temperatures in very hot conditions .In damp or wet tracks they tape the ducts to stem the flow of cool air as the brakes don't run so hot dj says he has it on good authority from Toto that they taped the ducts up on Nico,s car too much ,and not on Lewis,s OR not as much ! Now IF Nico,s brake ducts were taped up more on His car stemming the cool air then his brakes and tyres would be running warmer than Lewis,s were ,as Lewis had no ducting taped so are some people on here or at Mercedes trying to baffle us with bullshit ?

[driveace]

And as the track dries ,as ALL the teams racing would have taped the ducts up ,then they would ALL have been reducing the amount of tape on the brake ducts as the conditions got warmer ,it's not rocket science all teams in racing do it ,and drivers report back wether they can get temperature into the brakes or not IF not more ducting is added OR as conditions get hotter tape is removed it's called "Duct Tape"

[jens]

The tape wasn't an excuse. You can see them ripping it off during the pitstop. After that his pace upped again, but he was a) already trapped behind Alonso and b) his brake discs were already glazing. That last info came from Alex Wurz, who is commentating for ORF.

When the rain came down in the final laps of the race, Rosberg was dog slow again and actually let Hülkenberg past him.

In the dry Nico might have been fine - would be weird if we wasn't in a MERCEDES - but whenever the track was slippery he couldn't go fast.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Now IF Nico,s brake ducts were taped up more on His car stemming the cool air then his brakes and tyres would be running warmer than Lewis,s were ,as Lewis had no ducting taped so are some people on here or at Mercedes trying to baffle us with bullshit ?

I've been looking into it and the info that I have come from :

a) Toto's post-race interview on Austrian TV (one of the last free-to-air broadcasters btw)
b) Alexander Wurz's post-race analysis on ORF
c) Nico's post race interview quoted in German Media
d) Dieter Rencken's race recap on AMuS

All sources say the same. The brake ducts were taped on both cars to react to the much cooler temperatures. On Nico's car it was too much and the brakes started overheating at random, one time at the front, another time at the rear. Direct quote from Toto: "He was basically driving a broken car". Since some of the air is also channelled towards the rims to help with building up tyre heat, the missing air also prevented Rosberg's tyres from reaching working temps. Another detail that Wurz added was, that frequent overheating causes the brake disks to glaze over, progressively reducing their effectivity.

Basically Rosberg was in a vicious circle.

Another detail added by Rencken is, that common opinion in the media centre was that Merc was caught out by overdoing it on the tyre pressure trick, as they and Red Bull are believed to be the two teams who are circumventing the tyre pressure limits by channelling hot or cool air (depending on what is needed) towards the rims.

Lewis had the same problems, but to a much lesser extent (only tyre heat probs, none with the brakes) and according to his own interview he let the car slide deliberately to generate tyre heat.

[dj_bytedisaster]

When the rain came down in the final laps of the race, Rosberg was dog slow again and actually let Hülkenberg past him.

Because he was on shot ultra-softs who cooled to zero due to the water. He was out-accelerated by Hulk. You can actually see Rosberg's car having a massive tank-slapper when he tried to accelerate,

[Bagwan]

Drivers only get a warning if they cut a chicane twice. If they do it a third time then they get a drive through penalty. As Lewis only did it once, it wasn't deemed a topic for the stewards.

That is the way it is when you're alone , but should it be that way if you are in tight defense of position ?

In my thoughts , it should have been added to the context of the decision , simply because it was the cutting of the chicane that had Lewis's speed compromised , allowing for Daniel to get along side on the exit .

[Whyzars]

... it was the cutting of the chicane that had Lewis's speed compromised , allowing for Daniel to get along side on the exit .


When the drivers hits the white lines there should be proportional consequences as if they were still hitting walls.

[Starter]

That is the way it is when you're alone , but should it be that way if you are in tight defense of position ?

In my thoughts , it should have been added to the context of the decision , simply because it was the cutting of the chicane that had Lewis's speed compromised , allowing for Daniel to get along side on the exit .
OK, how alone do you have to be? Nose to tail; half a car; a car; half a lap? Do you really want to open a can of worms like that?

[N4D13]

My impression is that this kind of defensive behavior should not be tolerated. Cutting a chicane when you're defending track position against a pursuer is not acceptable. If there was a wall in there, the driver wouldn't be cutting the corner, but if there is none, they may just jump the chicane and ensure that they're not overtaken then and there. If you cut a chicane in order to avoid being overtaken, you should yield your position to the driver behind you. Shame the stewards don't agree with my views.

[Mintexmemory]

My impression is that this kind of defensive behavior should not be tolerated. Cutting a chicane when you're defending track position against a pursuer is not acceptable. If there was a wall in there, the driver wouldn't be cutting the corner, but if there is none, they may just jump the chicane and ensure that they're not overtaken then and there. If you cut a chicane in order to avoid being overtaken, you should yield your position to the driver behind you. Shame the stewards don't agree with my views.


You might care to go back through recordings from the past 25 years to see how many of the 'greats' have been chicane cutters - you can get away with murder (or taking opponents out with zero compunction) if you can make it look like a racing incident.
Hopefully we'll get a few more wet races this year to see if Mercedes have (or need to) learned how to set their cars up for cool conditions.

[Bagwan]

OK, how alone do you have to be? Nose to tail; half a car; a car; half a lap? Do you really want to open a can of worms like that?

Many decisions involve an element of judgement , and thus , we have stewards .

[Bagwan]

My impression is that this kind of defensive behavior should not be tolerated. Cutting a chicane when you're defending track position against a pursuer is not acceptable. If there was a wall in there, the driver wouldn't be cutting the corner, but if there is none, they may just jump the chicane and ensure that they're not overtaken then and there. If you cut a chicane in order to avoid being overtaken, you should yield your position to the driver behind you. Shame the stewards don't agree with my views.

I basically agree .
He missed it because of pressure from behind , and it had him re-entering the track surface from off it , while his opponent stayed on track .

I'm not sure if the stewards agree or not , though , as they seemingly were not investigating that issue , but rather only the squeeze into the next corner .

[henners88]

That is the way it is when you're alone , but should it be that way if you are in tight defense of position ?

In my thoughts , it should have been added to the context of the decision , simply because it was the cutting of the chicane that had Lewis's speed compromised , allowing for Daniel to get along side on the exit .

I think the benefit of the doubt was used by the stewards and in the end it didn't take away from a good win. I wouldn't have minded Daniel winning either and felt he was equally deserving but racing needs to be unpredictable at times to remain exciting.

[Bagwan]

I think the benefit of the doubt was used by the stewards and in the end it didn't take away from a good win. I wouldn't have minded Daniel winning either and felt he was equally deserving but racing needs to be unpredictable at times to remain exciting.

Upon further reading of the actual words from the stewards , it seems that it wasn't just the benefit of the doubt .
He did cut the chicane , but , didn't breach the rule , since he didn't gain advantage technically , because Daniel got close enough to make the outside move out of the chicane .
It's kinda weird reasoning , but it means they actually did take the whole sequence through the chicane into context in the decision .

I'm still not quite sure I agree with it , but I more understand the logic they used in the ruling now , I think .

[henners88]

I think incidents like this all depend on whether the person likes the driver. If this had been Daniel cutting the chicane and Lewis coming alongside but losing out, I doubt we'd really be discussing this. Daniel is a nice guy, Lewis is full of himself, but that shouldn't come into driving matters IMO.

[N4D13]

You might care to go back through recordings from the past 25 years to see how many of the 'greats' have been chicane cutters - you can get away with murder (or taking opponents out with zero compunction) if you can make it look like a racing incident.
Hopefully we'll get a few more wet races this year to see if Mercedes have (or need to) learned how to set their cars up for cool conditions.
Of course. Off the top of my mind, I recall Michael Schumacher twice cutting a chicane in Hungary '06 to keep Pedro de la Rosa behind him - which was obviously unfair. It's not like I'm pointing out something that has appeared lately, but the fact that it's an old problem doesn't make it less annoying for me.

[Bagwan]

I think incidents like this all depend on whether the person likes the driver. If this had been Daniel cutting the chicane and Lewis coming alongside but losing out, I doubt we'd really be discussing this. Daniel is a nice guy, Lewis is full of himself, but that shouldn't come into driving matters IMO.

If it happened exactly the same way , the other way around , I believe we would be discussing this .
I think you , for one , would insist .

But , I also think it's unlikely to have happened exactly that same way , as the likelihood of Lewis not backing out of the move out of the chicane would have been much greater .

[steveaki13]

Lewis is always more likely to be involved in incidents because he is that kind of driver. He goes for smaller gaps than most, he defends and attacks harder than most.

That's what makes him exiting to watch whether you like him or not. It makes more people dislike him but also makes him a 3 time champion.

I like him but think he is silly at times and gets involved in incidents. However I have also always said less penalties to whoever is at fault would be preferable for me.

Old school

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk

[Whyzars]

...Old school

Old school had walls and armco whilst new school has white lines and obvious driver mistakes being ignored by stewards. Hamilton should have received a drive through. Period.

Track boundaries are not respected because teams will bleat and moan if anyone dares to penalise them. Better to put the obstacles back and lose a few front wings than continue the current farcical processions that are modern F1 races.

We are being gradually conditioned to believe that the DRS is better for F1 than Ricciardo behind Hamilton for half the race. It isn't.

[henners88]

Perhaps Daniel could have had a drive through penalty too for having a crap pit stop!

[driveace]

Look guys at it from this point ,Monaco is a shit track and Everyman and his dog knows there isn't a chance in hell of an overtake unless the front driver concedes .The race is held at Monaco to line Bernie,s pockets ,we have the same problems at all street circuits .At street circuits the guy on pole usually wins ,unless the leaders team FUp with tyres ,or an accident occurs .Let's get to Silverstone and see some proper racing !

[henners88]

If it happened exactly the same way , the other way around , I believe we would be discussing this .
I think you , for one , would insist .

But , I also think it's unlikely to have happened exactly that same way , as the likelihood of Lewis not backing out of the move out of the chicane would have been much greater .
I doubt I'd insist. I would most likely be cheering a very well deserved Ricciardo win.