Spain 2016

[Tazio]

Encouraging signs from Ferrari, and Lewis is has closed the gap to Nico!

[steveaki13]

Lets hope for the championship Lewis can win this one.

Should be an interesting session with Ferrari threatening and Verstappen in that Red Bull

[Tazio]

I think this is going a n eventful session, morning Steve! :wave:

[Tazio]

Wow, Nico is on it :eek:

[steveaki13]

morning Steve!

Tazzy :wave:

[steveaki13]

Verstappen immediately on the pace. ahead of Raikkonen on his first run

[Tazio]

What happened to Felipe?

[Tazio]

Boss 1:22.1 yikes!

[steveaki13]

Thats an awesome lap time......

[steveaki13]

Lewis with a 22 flat, but what about Ricciardo, Verstappen & Red Bull. 3rd & 4th...... Ferrari 5th & 6th..... very surprised.

[Tazio]

Great job by The Boss. Danny​ Boy seemed quite happy to beat Max

[The Black Knight]

Interesting qualifying. There was part of me that was hoping Max woul beat Danny but another part hoping not as I really like Ricciardo. Great to see Verstappen so close to him.

Also great to see that Lewis was able to finally get a quali together and once again showed he could beat Rosberg when it mattered most. He has a 100% record so far this year in their head to head for when he had no reliability issues. It shod how strong Hamilton is mentally to bounce back. If he gets the start right tomorrow then hopefully it will be win 1 of the season for him!

[steveaki13]

Be interesting to see if Lewis Hamilton can correct his poorer starts this season. Cos until the start nothing is certain.

He needs an awesome race tomorrow to bring himself back in.

[Zico]

Very interesting qualifying, superb lap by Danny. Despite Max being a fair bit behind Danny in Q3, I still think that's a very solid QR for someone learning a new car.

I wouldn't have said this three years ago but I hope we see a very different tomorrow with Ferrari and RB being a lot stronger in the race with superior tyre wear and able to challenge Mercedes.

[Tazio]

What is up with Ferrari?
Marchionne went and shot his mouth off that they were going to start winning this weekend.
I guess Fred has the best explanation I've heard so far:


"Let's see," he told Marca sports newspaper. "Ferrari are usually fast on a Friday."
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiRBmJIXEAA7HMV.jpg
Fred! :crazy: :laugh:
The topper will be if Seb takes out a Red Bull at turn one.

[steveaki13]

lol Fred




The topper will be if Seb takes out a Red Bull at turn one.



Will Seb be dropped to the Ferrari GT team :p

[dj_bytedisaster]

It must suck to be Rosberg right now. According to Toto Wolff on Austrian TV Hamilton copied Rosbergs setup after FP3 and beat the pants off him, So much for all the people who said HAM hasn't got a chance anymore. It's back to the karting days.

[Tazio]

Will Seb be dropped to the Ferrari GT team :p
No, no, no, ALFA Romeo ;)

[Zico]

It must suck to be Rosberg right now. According to Toto Wolff on Austrian TV Hamilton copied Rosbergs setup after FP3 and beat the pants off him, So much for all the people who said HAM hasn't got a chance anymore. It's back to the karting days.



I'm not so sure it will be that easy. He still has a fair amount to catch up, his starts have had issues and he has more pain ahead of him in engine penalties with already being on his third turbocharger and MGU-H of his 6 token allocation for the season.
It makes for a more exciting season but my attention is focused more on what's happened at RB and how Max and Danil get on against their new team mates. I guess it's the closest thing we can get to cross comparing drivers from other teams in the same car.

[steveaki13]

Afternoon guys.

I have to go and visit someone in hospital soon, so I will only see half hour live and will have to watch the rest 2 hours lately.

[Tazio]

Morning Steve! :wave:

[steveaki13]

What's going to happen now? Chaos or borefest :p

[Tazio]

Wow!!

[Koz]

Holy shit

[veeten]

Nico,... what was THAT?!!!!!!!!

[steveaki13]

Time to play the blame game.

Rosberg was already defending, but Hamilton gave it a go, but then Rosberg didnt leave space..................


Anyway thats for later.

We are going to see an non Mercedes winner...... hurrah for that.

[longisland]

IMHO, if Nico didn't cover Hamilton, Hamilton may outbrake himself in turn 1. Alas

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm afraid Lewis might have to answer a question himself. The last one who sucessfully overtook over the grass was Mansel in '89.

[pino]

Nico ? I blame Hamilton for that...

[steveaki13]

this is so dull. Red Bull domination ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Ouch. Lauda immediately blames Lewis on Sky Germany

[truefan72]

well 2nd time rosberg has taken hamilton out.
This is ridiculous. They guy never learns.
Well I am going back to bed

[truefan72]

well 2nd time rosberg has taken hamilton out.
This is ridiculous. They guy never learns.
Well I am going back to bed

[gm99]

Niki Lauda not very pleased with Hamilton...

[dj_bytedisaster]

Nice tactical situation for Red Bull. Sainz holds the Fezzas back to give the RB's a gap.

[pino]

well 2nd time rosberg has taken hamilton out.
This is ridiculous. They guy never learns.
Well I am going back to bed

Am I watching a different race ?

[dj_bytedisaster]

well 2nd time rosberg has taken hamilton out.
This is ridiculous. They guy never learns.
Well I am going back to bed

Mercedes disagrees. They blame it on Lewis.

[steveaki13]

Am I watching a different race ?

I think Lewis was too agreesive and to blame, but I also believe Nico is not completely blameless. Racing incident in which both pay for. To be honest that will suit Nico Rosberg far more. So he shouldn't be raging.

[The Black Knight]

Well that was an interesting development.

I'll reserve judgement till I've looked at it a couple more times but it looked to me initially as though Rosberg moved once, and once he realised Hamilton was going down the inside he moved a second time. Then he didn't leave Hamilton a card width, which he is obliged to do.

On the other hand, I am surprised to see Hamilton make that move, he had such extra speed that he could have probably taken Nico round the outside. But, as my understanding of the rules, Nico is obliged to leave room.

Nikki, may be blaming Hamilton but it's not that straight forward I am afraid.

[longisland]

Rosberg is sending a clear message to Hamilton he will do what ever it takes to win. Hamilton needs to think twice before lunging

[Garry Walker]

100% Rosberg's fault, anyone who can't see it, should have their eyes examined. Lewis had his wheel alongside, Rosberg gave him zero space, Lewis couldn't do anything.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Hamilton was not alongside. He was in the grass already before his frontwing was anywhere near next to nicos car, else he would have clipped it.

[henners88]

Yeah it's difficult not to blame Nico for the most part I think.

It'll be nice to see a non-Merc winner though and I hope Ricciardo can keep it together.

[The Black Knight]

100% Rosberg's fault, anyone who can't see it, should have their eyes examined. Lewis had his wheel alongside, Rosberg gave him zero space, Lewis couldn't do anything.

Well, ultimately, Nico is obliged to give Hamilton room and he didn't. Nico also moved twice which he's not supposed to do. Good to see another team win though.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well, ultimately, Nico is obliged to give Hamilton room and he didn't. Nico also moved twice which he's not supposed to do. Good to see another team win though.

He only moved once as far as I saw.And he is only obliged to give a car witdth if he is alongside, which he wasn't, he only got barely alongside when his right wheels where already off the tarmac.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Newsflash. The Politbüro has changed the verdict to racing incident. Reading between the lines, Lauda was called in later and told to change his opinion. Looks like at least Toto learned from Spa 2014 and didn't pillory a driver right away. Lauda probably never learns.

[truefan72]

Rosberg left the racing line to force Hamilton off the track which is beyond stupid. Ive seen penalties given for less already this year. Nikki can say whatever he wants and of course will shoot his mouth before his brain can catch up. The only thing i take from this weekend is i expect a rosberg penalty and now probably a change in momentum

[henners88]

Lauda does struggle to engage his mouth with his brain most of the time which is the main reason I enjoy his opinions. He is the German Eddie Jordan lol.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Rosberg left the racing line to force Hamilton off the track which is beyond stupid. Ive seen penalties given for less already this year. Nikki can say whatever he wants and of course will shoot his mouth before his brain can catch up. The only thing i take from this weekend is i expect a rosberg penalty and now probably a change in momentum

How can he force Lewis off the track if Lewis is still behind him? The right wheels of Lewis's car where already off the tarmac before his front wing was ever next to Nico's rear wheels. Watch the overhead replay.

[The Black Knight]

He only moved once as far as I saw.And he is only obliged to give a car witdth if he is alongside, which he wasn't, he only got barely alongside when his right wheels where already off the tarmac.

I can't really agree or disagree with that. I have to look at it again. This was just my initial view on it without proper analysis.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I can't really agree or disagree with that. I have to look at it again. This was just my initial view on it without proper analysis.

It's fairly obvious in the overhead replay from the helicam. They'll surely show it again after the race. After all, this race hadn't had much more talking points so far.

[dj_bytedisaster]

What a blow this must be for Kvyat. The car he was booted out of is currently leading the race...

[The Black Knight]

Sebastien Vettel moaning over the radio like a little bitch again

[dj_bytedisaster]

Sebastien Vettel moaning over the radio like a little bitch again

Well, RIC was never going to make that corner. It was a bit of a hairbrained move.

[Koz]

Come on Kimi!!

[The Black Knight]

Well, RIC was never going to make that corner. It was a bit of a hairbrained move.

He was entitled to make the move. He nearly made the corner. That is racing.

[dj_bytedisaster]

LOL, someone on Sky Germany twittered: "Great race, that's like Bundesliga without Bayern Munic"

[The Black Knight]

C'mon Verstappen! This would be amazing if he wins!

[dj_bytedisaster]

He was entitled to make the move. He nearly made the corner. That is racing.

You can't be nearly pregnant. Since he didn't make the corner, it means he went in too fast and risked and accident.

Edit. I wonder if clattering over those barriers damaged his worn tyre.

[henners88]

Go Max, awesome victory!!!!

[Big Ben]

Fake

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[The Black Knight]

Wow, just wow from Max. What an incredible star we have on our hands here. That was just sheer raw brilliance from possibly the biggest talent we may ever have seen in F1.

[The Black Knight]

You can't be nearly pregnant. Since he didn't make the corner, it means he went in too fast and risked and accident.

Edit. I wonder if clattering over those barriers damaged his worn tyre.

Sometimes I wonder if you realise what racing really is. Racing history is littered with failed overtakes. Just because you didn't make the move stick doesn't mean you weren't entitled to try.

[henners88]

Nothing is ever certain in racing and Max kept it on the circuit and delivered. A mature drive and clearly one of many. The youngest ever winner too!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Sometimes I wonder if you realise what racing really is. Racing history is littered with failed overtakes. Just because you didn't make the move stick doesn't mean you weren't entitled to try.

True, but he might have killed his own tyre in that move, which would make him look like a bit of a tool, wouldn't you think? And not every unrealistic move is worth making.

[The Black Knight]

He may or he may not have. Either way, it's still racing.

[The Black Knight]

One thing this race showed to me is that Ferrari should get rid or Raikkonen at the end of the year. He's utterly useless. He should have won that race.

[dj_bytedisaster]

One thing this race showed to me is that Ferrari should get rid or Raikkonen at the end of the year. He's utterly useless. He should have won that race.

I think what they should get rid of should be the car, it was utterly hopeless on traction out of the last corner.

[gm99]

One thing this race showed to me is that Ferrari should get rid or Raikkonen at the end of the year. He's utterly useless. He should have won that race.

The useless one has just overtaken Hamilton in the driver's standings to take second place ;) I don't think the Ferrari was quite as fast as the Red Bull today - Vettel struggled to hold off Ricciardo.

[zako85]

I think Nico should take the blame. He was certainly blocking/defending rather than taking the optimal race line. Did you see all the other following cars at the moment the accident happened? They were all on the opposite side of the track from Hamilton and Rosberg, which suggests that Rosberg's move to block Hamilton was not simply explained by following the "racing line".

[dj_bytedisaster]

Ricciardo blames the team for the strategy. Quite ironic, considering that he got his maiden win by the team screwing Sebs strategy in Canada '14. (Not quite instant) karma.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think Nico should take the blame. He was certainly blocking/defending rather than taking the optimal race line. Did you see all the other following cars at the moment the accident happened? They were all on the opposite side of the track from Hamilton and Rosberg, which suggests that Rosberg's move to block Hamilton was not simply explained by following the "racing line".

Isn't going off the racing line to defend your position the very definition od defending your position? Or what did you think all those drivers were doing driving to the right on the start-fisnish-straight? It even has a name: 'Closing the door'.

[Zico]

Wow. what a great race! Absolutely incredible..
I'm unashamed to say that Max winning even brought a tear to my eye. Yes, he was fortunate in being given the better strategy but he didn't put a wheel wrong and drove beyond his years, definitely an exceptional talent at such a young age,.... that was a real privilege and pleasure to witness.

[zako85]

The start-finish straight part of the race is a very different from the rest of race because there are so many cars running very close to each other, and often two or three abreast. Therefore, I think the penalties for crashing on the start-finish lane or in the first turn should be more lenient. However, by the time Hamilton and Rosberg touched, they were already very far away from the start-finish lane.

[The Black Knight]

How can he force Lewis off the track if Lewis is still behind him? The right wheels of Lewis's car where already off the tarmac before his front wing was ever next to Nico's rear wheels. Watch the overhead replay.

Yeah, I've just seen a replay now and it was Rosberg's fault. Looks like Rosberg was in The wrong mode doing round the corner and his car started harvesting. This caused him to be extremely slow on the exit of the corner. He started fiddling with the switches to change mode, Lewis saw a gap, went for it. Then Rosberg came over and essentially blocks Lewis. Once Lewis committed to the move, he couldn't back out of it because he had so much speed. Rosberg saw Lewis lunge and cut him off. Lewis was alongside Rosberg and should have been given space. Nico wasn't entitled to come across. It was Nico's fault, ultimately caused by him being in the wrong mode. I don't believe it was in anyway intentional I liked previous occasions.

These things happen in racing in the heat of the moment.

[The Black Knight]

The useless one has just overtaken Hamilton in the driver's standings to take second place ;) I don't think the Ferrari was quite as fast as the Red Bull today - Vettel struggled to hold off Ricciardo.

The Ferrari looked quicker to me. It was just in the wrong hands to make it go quicker. Vettel's struggle as down to a banana's Ferrari strategy.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Yeah, I've just seen a replay now and it was Rosberg's fault. Looks like Rosberg was in The wrong mode doing round the corner and his car started harvesting. This caused him to be extremely slow on the exit of the corner. He started fiddling with the switches to change mode, Lewis saw a gap, went for it. Then Rosberg came over and essentially blocks Lewis. Once Lewis committed to the move, he couldn't back out of it because he had so much speed. Rosberg saw Lewis lunge and cut him off. Lewis was alongside Rosberg and should have been given space. Nico wasn't entitled to come across. It was Nico's fault, ultimately caused by him being in the wrong mode. I don't believe it was in anyway intentional I liked previous occasions.

These things happen in racing in the heat of the moment.

Sorry, you're wrong. Yes, Rosberg slowed down, but Lewis was NOT alongside. He went into the gras and then his frontwing appeared next to Nico's wheel. He could have avoided that by tapping the brakes. He tried to force a gap, but he was actually off-track, so the only thing he was entitled to at that point was a nasty accident. The sequence of events is important. He was FIRST in the grass oand only then he got alongside. That's not how shit works.

[Mia 01]

I´m happy for Max!. Kimi, yeah, second in WDC!!!!!!

[zako85]

This was a fantastic race for two reasons. First, Verstappen wins his first ever race in his first race with Red Bull. That doesn't happen often. Kvyat is going to wet his pillow with tears tonight. Second, the Hamilton-Rosberg accident. This accident ensured that I can grab a bag of popcorn and watch the opposing sides argue with each other for the next two weeks until Monaco. This hasn't happened since Belgian GP of 2014.

[Triumph]

Fantastic race. Great to see Max Verstappen win his first race.

Plenty of action, and plenty to talk about!

[Bagwan]

Sorry, you're wrong. Yes, Rosberg slowed down, but Lewis was NOT alongside. He went into the gras and then his frontwing appeared next to Nico's wheel. He could have avoided that by tapping the brakes. He tried to force a gap, but he was actually off-track, so the only thing he was entitled to at that point was a nasty accident. The sequence of events is important. He was FIRST in the grass oand only then he got alongside. That's not how shit works.

Spot on , dj .

[The Black Knight]

Sorry, you're wrong. Yes, Rosberg slowed down, but Lewis was NOT alongside. He went into the gras and then his frontwing appeared next to Nico's wheel. He could have avoided that by tapping the brakes. He tried to force a gap, but he was actually off-track, so the only thing he was entitled to at that point was a nasty accident. The sequence of events is important. He was FIRST in the grass oand only then he got alongside. That's not how shit works.

http://oi67.tinypic.com/2w7kdgx.jpg

Yeah, I don't think so mate. This image clearly shows Lewis alongside and he isn't off the track. He's on the edge of the track. No question, Nico's fault.

[N. Jones]

Nico pulled the Schumacher One-Continuous-Move and this time an accident was the result.

[dj_bytedisaster]

http://oi67.tinypic.com/2w7kdgx.jpg

Yeah, I don't think so mate. This image clearly shows Lewis alongside and he isn't off the track. He's on the edge of the track. No question, Nico's fault.

should have gone to spec-savers. The front wheel is blantantly obviously on the astro-turf, which, when I last checked was quite slippery and no part of the track. Stweards disagree too. It was deemed a racing accident with no penalties handed out. Which is good for Lewis, because after two reprimands already, else he would started the Monaco GP in Nice.

[The Black Knight]

should have gone to spec-savers. The front wheel is blantantly obviously on the astro-turf, which, when I last checked was quite slippery and no part of the track. Stweards disagree too. It was deemed a racing accident with no penalties handed out. Which is good for Lewis, because after two reprimands already, else he would started the Monaco GP in Nice.

He is alongside Nico and at that point it's up to Nico to give him room. Nico doesn't know if Lewis on on Astro turf or not at that point. He does know he is alongside him. Nico's fault. Should have given Lewis room.

[dj_bytedisaster]

He is alongside Nico and at that point it's up to Nico to give him room. Nico doesn't know if Lewis on on Astro turf or not at that point. He does know he is alongside him. Nico's fault. Should have given Lewis room.

So basically, racing rules are changed now: Go off track as long as you end up alongside, the other guy has to give way? Sorry, but he was off-track BEFORE he got alongside. Wrong order of events. And how much more evidence do you need? Lewis apologized, Lauda said he was wrong and Stewards did not deem Rosberg worthy of punishment. Your point, please?

[A FONDO]

He is alongside Nico and at that point it's up to Nico to give him room. Nico doesn't know if Lewis on on Astro turf or not at that point. He does know he is alongside him. Nico's fault. Should have given Lewis room.

All this happens at over 250 kmh, its ridiculous to measure at pictures that for 27 hundreds of a second somebody was 34 milimiters alonside another one.

[The Black Knight]

So basically, racing rules are changed now: Go off track as long as you end up alongside, the other guy has to give way? Sorry, but he was off-track BEFORE he got alongside. Wrong order of events. And how much more evidence do you need? Lewis apologized, Lauda said he was wrong and Stewards did not deem Rosberg worthy of punishment. Your point, please?

Lewis wasn't off the track he was on it.
Lauda is an idiot and point you've made on here many times. The Stewards deemed it a racing incident and Lewis apologised because they crashed out, he didn't take the blame for it. Rosberg did the same. So let's state it as it is and not as you usually do to suit your agenda.

My point is: Rosberg was at fault. The image above shows that. Lewis was alongside him ON the track.

[The Black Knight]

All this happens at over 250 kmh, its ridiculous to measure at pictures that for 27 hundreds of a second somebody was 34 milimiters alonside another one.
Not according to the rules it's not!

[henners88]

All this happens at over 250 kmh, its ridiculous to measure at pictures that for 27 hundreds of a second somebody was 34 milimiters alonside another one.
That works both ways too. Lewis went for a gap that was quickly closed and at that speed it meant it was very difficult to abort. This is why it was deemed a racing incident with both drivers at fault.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Lewis wasn't off the track he was on it.
Lauda is an idiot and point you've made on here many times. The Stewards deemed it a racing incident and Lewis apologised because they crashed out, he didn't take the blame for it. Rosberg did the same. So let's state it as it is and not as you usually do to suit your agenda.

My point is: Rosberg was at fault. The image above shows that. Lewis was alongside him ON the track.

Sorry, but the track is not green, and Lewis's right wheel is on a green surface. And Lewis DID accept the blame. Read something else but BBC propaganda and you'll see it's reported everywhere. Your point is Rosberg is at fault, but everyone from Mercedes to the stewards disagrees, else Rosberg would have been penalized for causing a collision, which he was not.

[Zico]

Seemed like a racing incident to me and the stewards are of the same opinion...but if there was someone at fault, I couldn't give a flying monkeys who it was. Main thing is no-one was hurt and it also makes for a more exciting championship.

Wish every race was like this one, let's just ban Merc from F1 ;)

[The Black Knight]

Sorry, but the track is not green, and Lewis's right wheel is on a green surface. And Lewis DID accept the blame. Read something else but BBC propaganda and you'll see it's reported everywhere. Your point is Rosberg is at fault, but everyone from Mercedes to the stewards disagrees, else Rosberg would have been penalized for causing a collision, which he was not.

Drivers are allowed exceed track limits as long as all four wheels don't go beyond the white line when doing an overtake. He may have been slightly on the green but that's completely legal. And no, Lewis didn't accept responsibility because it wasn't his to accept.

[Stan Reid]

Merc will have two weeks to wring out their crying towels. Viva Super Max!

[steveaki13]

You guys are a bunch of moany whiners. :p

All this studying millisecond footage. Racing drivers dont have time to think that. Its instinct. This constant blame adds to the sterilization of F1

We had two drivers fighting for a Championship and race like Senna & Prost did. Both had blame it was as the race directors finally said correctly a racing incident.

Hamilton went for a risky gap as a racer knowing there was a chance to crash, Rosberg closed the door hard and said "\I will not give up this lead".

Both showed balls, both knew there were risks. Rosberg is happy enough as he retains a 43 point lead. Hamilton knew that was a risk but decided to go for it like a racer....

IMO a racing incident that should both a hard racers. It was an exciting moment of the season and ramps up the drama. Meanwhile Max came through to take an amazing win. Great to see a race for the win today.

We should enjoy the drama and hope we see close racing next time without the collision. Bahrain 2014.....

all this Hamilton fans /Rosberg haters blaming Rosberg and Rosberg fans / Hamilton haters blame Hamilton is boring really.

Both took a risk and both lost in the race. Rosberg comes out on top because he retains his points lead. Monaco should be exciting.

[Bagwan]

Oh great .
Steve again , whining about people whining .

Show some balls and pick a side .













Hee hee .

[Nitrodaze]

I think this accident today may have revealed how Rosberg has been getting the upper hand at the starts this year. He may have figured out that the energy recovery mode gave a better traction from standstill than the normal startoff mode. While Hamilton has been following the instructed start procedures, Nico may have been using the unorthodox energy recovery mode. Every other race before today, Hamilton has had crashes at the first corner, hence has not been in the position in this grand prix to challenge Rosberg into the second corner.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think this accident today may have revealed how Rosberg has been getting the upper hand at the starts this year. He may have figured out that the energy recovery mode gave a better traction from standstill than the normal startoff mode. While Hamilton has been following the instructed start procedures, Nico may have been using the unorthodox energy recovery mode. Every other race before today, Hamilton has had crashes at the first corner, hence has not been in the position in this grand prix to challenge Rosberg into the second corner.

All cars are in the same starting mode at the start and later forcibly switch into the default mode set by the driver. The starting mode is not set by the driver but FIA, ther same way how they can enable/disable DRS. It appears you simply can't accept that Lewis has had starting problems all year.

[steveaki13]

Oh great .
Steve again , whining about people whining .

Show some balls and pick a side .













Hee hee .

Fair enough we would have no debate if we followed my principles..........;)


Anyway I pick my side........................... I think both drivers are noobs, but brave and fast noobs.... :p

[Nitrodaze]

All cars are in the same starting mode at the start and later forcibly switch into the default mode set by the driver. The starting mode is not set by the driver but FIA, ther same way how they can enable/disable DRS. It appears you simply can't accept that Lewis has had starting problems all year.

I was speculating, but it is interesting that he was able to start the race in the wrong mode and the FIA did not know about it of make a big deal about it. Also interesting is how he was able to get going from standstill in a different mode. I fail to see how he would have had the time to change into that mode between the start line and corner one. Which ever way you look at it, it is peculiar to say the least.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I was speculating, but it is interesting that he was able to start the race in the wrong mode and the FIA did not know about it of make a big deal about it. Also interesting is how he was able to get going from standstill in a different mode. I fail to see how he would have had the time to change into that mode between the start line and corner one. Which ever way you look at it, it is peculiar to say the least.

He didn't start in the wrong mode, how Lewis said in the interview. That was simply an attempt to mislead the public, because it isn't possible unless there was a technical failure. All cars start in the same mode, which is activated by FIA, the same way they activate/deactivate DRS on the cars. A set time after the start the car forcibly switches into a mode that the driver had set before the start, that's where Rosberg made his mistake or there was a failure on the car, because his car didn't switch to the default race mode, like Lewis's, but started harvesting energy instead. Hence the blinking rear light.

[steveaki13]

I must also add, that I thought Vettel was a real whinger today as well. Ricciardo made an ambitious move but he was trying to make a pass. Which is what I want to see. Vettel has probably made rash moves in the past. Just duck back up the inside and force him towards the grass..... and drive on Seb

[dj_bytedisaster]

I must also add, that I thought Vettel was a real whinger today as well. Ricciardo made an ambitious move but he was trying to make a pass. Which is what I want to see. Vettel has probably made rash moves in the past. Just duck back up the inside and force him towards the grass..... and drive on Seb

I disagree. It wasn't an ambitious move, it was a dumb move. Admittedly it was one that worked occasionally in the past, but it also went wrong occasionally, like when he clattered into Rosberg at Hungary last year. He was way too far back and was never even remotely looking like making the corner. On top of that, he went very hard over the bumps in the run-off after missing the corner, which might have contributed to the tyre damage later on.

An on the topic of whinger. If anyone, RIC was one himself, publically bawling over the team messing up his strategy, completely forgetting that this was exactly how he scored his own maiden victory, because he was behind Seb all race in Canada 2014, until the team backed Seb into traffic with the last pitstop.

[Nitrodaze]

He didn't start in the wrong mode, how Lewis said in the interview. That was simply an attempt to mislead the public, because it isn't possible unless there was a technical failure. All cars start in the same mode, which is activated by FIA, the same way they activate/deactivate DRS on the cars. A set time after the start the car forcibly switches into a mode that the driver had set before the start, that's where Rosberg made his mistake or there was a failure on the car, because his car didn't switch to the default race mode, like Lewis's, but started harvesting energy instead. Hence the blinking rear light.

That would make sense as the car was not flashing off the start line but after the first turn. But could there be inherent advantage in making the setting in that way?

[dj_bytedisaster]

That would make sense as the car was not flashing off the start line but after the first turn. But could there be inherent advantage in making the setting in that way?

Not really. What advantage would there bee in making the car switch to a mode that effectively removes 160 bhp of power and also gives a flashing light signal to your pursuers that says 'hey I'm down on power'. We would have seen the light flashing before if that was the case, and the rest of the field would be using the same trick anyway.

[keysersoze]

I see it 75% on Rosberg. Nico may have left Barcelona with his 43 lead intact, but he has poked the sleeping giant. I frankly think LH was a bit happy for Nico's success and therefore did not have the psychological edge necessary to take the fight to his teammate, but all that is out the window. Hamilton is getting ready to lay a smack down on the princess.

[Tazio]

Both took a risk and both lost in the race Well stated, this is what posterity will remember about this incident.

Oh great .
Steve again , whining about people whining .

Show some balls and pick a side .
Oh, a tough guy! ;)

[The Black Knight]

I'm going to summarize up here the way I see the incident:

Hamilton was 17kmph+ faster than Rosberg on the exit of turn three. He saw that Nico was derating and knew he had a chance to retake the lead. On the exit of turn 3 he had three choices:

1) Hold back (no driver worth his salt would do this and would have left him potentially exposed to Daniel Ricciardo)
2) Go left
3) Go right

The gap to the right was bigger so he went for it. At this point in time I think he made the correct choice as, had he gone left, Rosberg would have just kept the line he was on, braked late, and had a nice clean line into turn 4 and the overtake would have failed. Going to the inside was Hamilton's best chance to overtake which he correctly attempted to do. I don't believe he could or should have taken any other option with such a speed advantage.

At the same point that Hamilton was doing this, Rosberg was fiddling with his steering wheel after being in the incorrect mode for the start. He looked in the mirror, saw Hamilton coming for him and swerved right to block him not realising that Hamilton was so much quicker than him. This was the point he made the mistake. Rosberg should have realised after being in the incorrect mode Hamilton would have had a huge speed difference over him and, thus, should have left him room. Unfortunately, he didn't and Hamilton hadn't time to react, thus the incident which ensued. I think that, ultimately, the Steward's did the right thing by not penalising any driver as hard racing is what F1 should be about and it was hard racing from both of them, which is fair game in my book, and sometimes when you race hard against each other these things happen. The fault lies with Rosberg but the winner is F1 as it's great to see two drivers on top of their game go at it like that and for once not have the Stewards meddle with it either or penalize either driver. It shows there is still a place for hard racing in F1.

[Mia 01]

A desperate move from a desperate man, trying to pass Nico to the right, on the grass, no lifting there, no full trottle. Awarded with two DNF:s.

[AndyL]

I think this accident today may have revealed how Rosberg has been getting the upper hand at the starts this year. He may have figured out that the energy recovery mode gave a better traction from standstill than the normal startoff mode. While Hamilton has been following the instructed start procedures, Nico may have been using the unorthodox energy recovery mode. Every other race before today, Hamilton has had crashes at the first corner, hence has not been in the position in this grand prix to challenge Rosberg into the second corner.

I don't think that's the case. From Ant Davidson's analysis of the switch positions from the on-board camera, it appeared that Nico set off with the engine mode selector in a different position to the previous race.

[The Black Knight]

I don't think that's the case. From Ant Davidson's analysis of the switch positions from the on-board camera, it appeared that Nico set off with the engine mode selector in a different position to the previous race.

Exactly! Rosberg himself said he was in the incorrect mode. It was his mistake that he chose the incorrect setting.

[Stan Reid]

What are they going to do if Max wins the U.S. G.P. and he's not legally old enough to drink?:beer:

[schmenke]

What are they going to do if Max wins the U.S. G.P. and he's not legally old enough to drink?:beer:

LOL! Good question!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

So why were Ricciardo and Vettel put on strategies that required overtaking on a circuit where you can't overtake?

[Garry Walker]

Sebastien Vettel moaning over the radio like a little bitch again
Too funny. That is why I have a new name for him. Period Boy.


One thing this race showed to me is that Ferrari should get rid or Raikkonen at the end of the year. He's utterly useless. He should have won that race.
Are you an imbecile? Just wondering, because there was no way that Ferrari was overtaking the Red Bull. Kimi had no tyre advantage and Max didn't make a mistake. The only way he could have overtaken Max would have been by ramming him out.
And if you want Kimi fired, what do you want done with Period Boy, who was slower than Kimi?


I think what they should get rid of should be the car, it was utterly hopeless on traction out of the last corner.
Ferrari was still the much better car compared to Red Bull.


Ricciardo blames the team for the strategy. Quite ironic, considering that he got his maiden win by the team screwing Sebs strategy in Canada '14. (Not quite instant) karma.
Ricciardo was also faster than Period Boy that day.


Sorry, but the track is not green, and Lewis's right wheel is on a green surface. And Lewis DID accept the blame. Read something else but BBC propaganda and you'll see it's reported everywhere. Your point is Rosberg is at fault, but everyone from Mercedes to the stewards disagrees, else Rosberg would have been penalized for causing a collision, which he was not.
Has Lewis actually in public admitted his that he was to blame or is that RTL propaganda?

[Garry Walker]

So why were Ricciardo and Vettel put on strategies that required overtaking on a circuit where you can't overtake?
Because that was the faster strategy according to Pirelli.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Because that was the faster strategy according to Pirelli.

Only if you had clean air or were able to overtake. I'd be pretty annoyed if I was Ricc. He was quicker than Verstappen, didn't make any mistakes (apart from a desperate move on Vettel) and ended up with nothing.

Can't help but feeling Helmut Marko got exactly what he wanted.

[steveaki13]

Only if you had clean air or were able to overtake. I'd be pretty annoyed if I was Ricc. He was quicker than Verstappen, didn't make any mistakes (apart from a desperate move on Vettel) and ended up with nothing.

Can't help but feeling Helmut Marko got exactly what he wanted.

Hope you are not accusing Red Bull of accusing one driver over another? That has never happened before ever surely??? ;)

[steveaki13]

Only if you had clean air or were able to overtake. I'd be pretty annoyed if I was Ricc. He was quicker than Verstappen, didn't make any mistakes (apart from a desperate move on Vettel) and ended up with nothing.

Can't help but feeling Helmut Marko got exactly what he wanted.

BTW I kept that signature too, but gave up after my cheque failed to arrive...... what gives Tazzy?

[Garry Walker]

Only if you had clean air or were able to overtake. I'd be pretty annoyed if I was Ricc. He was quicker than Verstappen, didn't make any mistakes (apart from a desperate move on Vettel) and ended up with nothing.

Can't help but feeling Helmut Marko got exactly what he wanted.
Was he faster than Max?

[steveaki13]

Max was catching Ricciardo early in the race before stops, but Ricciardo must be disappointed because its not always about being faster. He had track position.

Just a case of the team splitting the cars. Ricciardo was given what was on paper the best strategy. Not sure anyone saw Max & Kimi doing over 30 laps on those tyres. Just unfortunate play out of the race really.

[dj_bytedisaster]

So why were Ricciardo and Vettel put on strategies that required overtaking on a circuit where you can't overtake?

Because the three stop strategy was calculated to be six seconds faster than a two-stopper. It turned out the other way round because the medium compound was able to last longer than even Pirelli had thought possible. I think they did the correct thing, but with the wrong driver.

Ferrari had to go aggressive on strategy, Seb was in a position to try and Kimi is too useless to go on a strategy that requires driving fast. Seb was caught out by the fact that track temps had gone up by 5 degrees since the start and was right in the same region as it was in quali, read: the tyres instantly died on them.

The 'mistake' here was Red Bull's. They should have covered Seb with Verstappen, not RIC. They gave up Danny's better track position without necessity. Basically it was Silverstone Frontwing-gate and Canada 2014 all over again. It seems to be a trademark of Dr. Marko that at some point the old favourite get's an unmistakable message that his time as the team leader is over because they now have a new golden boy.

[jens]

Wow! Now that was a race! :D Which reminded me, why I love F1, and I got my passion back.

Big controversy and drama with dominant Mercedes crashing out instantly. You don't see that every day.

You also don't always see such race. Realistically 4 drivers competing for win! Complicated strategy games, which some drivers (Vettel/Ricciardo) got it wrong.

And then... the big story. Max-boy came, saw, and won! A telling victory. Probably marks the start of a great journey, a bit like Senna in Portugal back in 1985, Schumacher in Belgium in 1992 or why not Vettel in the Toro Rosso in Italy in 2008.

[dj_bytedisaster]

And then... the big story. Max-boy came, saw, and won! A telling victory. Probably marks the start of a great journey, a bit like Senna in Portugal back in 1985, Schumacher in Belgium in 1992 or why not Vettel in the Toro Rosso in Italy in 2008.

I really like Max, but I still think he's a bit over-hyped and all those who declare him a racing god right now, might be setting him up for a nasty fall. It's true that he drove a perfect race, but once the Mercs where gone, he 'only' had to beat cars that were close or even weaker than his own. That's why I don't think the comparison with Monaco '84, Portugal '85, Spa '92 (and Barcelona '96 for that matter) or Vettel win in Monza '08, does not really work. The defining element of all these drives by Senna, Schumacher and Vettel was, that they were in an inferior car and beat the dominant cars of that season on the track.

As I said, it was a fine drive and I'm sure he will show some even more spectacular drives once RB have something resembling an engine in the back, but Barcelona was 'merely' a very good drive helped by strategic luck. Also the fact that his direct pursuer is long past his sell-by-date was also helping a bit.

[The Black Knight]

I really like Max, but I still think he's a bit over-hyped and all those who declare him a racing god right now, might be setting him up for a nasty fall. It's true that he drove a perfect race, but once the Mercs where gone, he 'only' had to beat cars that were close or even weaker than his own. That's why I don't think the comparison with Monaco '84, Portugal '85, Spa '92 (and Barcelona '96 for that matter) or Vettel win in Monza '08, does not really work. The defining element of all these drives by Senna, Schumacher and Vettel was, that they were in an inferior car and beat the dominant cars of that season on the track.

As I said, it was a fine drive and I'm sure he will show some even more spectacular drives once RB have something resembling an engine in the back, but Barcelona was 'merely' a very good drive helped by strategic luck. Also the fact that his direct pursuer is long past his sell-by-date was also helping a bit.

I agree with this. It's not comparable to the aforementioned races but it was mightily impressive none the least. It is simply because he is so young that it impresses that much, not necessarily because it was one of the greatest drivers in the history of the sport, it wasn't. But it showed exceptional potential at a very young age and that is really what impressed me. If he is this good now, I can only imagine how good he'll be in a couple of years. Time will tell.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I agree with this. It's not comparable to the aforementioned races but it was mightily impressive none the least. It is simply because he is so young that it impresses that much, not necessarily because it was one of the greatest drivers in the history of the sport, it wasn't. But it showed exceptional potential at a very young age and that is really what impressed me. If he is this good now, I can only imagine how good he'll be in a couple of years. Time will tell.

I agree with you. He's a talent the likes of which comes about every ten years at most.

That is the critical bit. Because all the hype now might turn against him. The elder statesmen will remember with how much hype Rubens Barrichello once came into F1. It didn't help him. And how many WDC's does Fernando Alonso have again? Despite being considered one of the best of his generation? How your career works out depends on so many more factors than just´your talent. He could well end up being a one-hit-wonder, which would be a shame. The two markets with the most WDC's in the last thirty years (Britain and Germany) are saturated and struggling, so a Verstappen success might bring in much needed enthusiastic fans.

[jens]

The reason I compared Verstappen's win to these three was only because all were the FIRST win of mentioned drivers. I mean races itself, how they were won and conditions were completely different - for starters Por'85/Bel'92/Ita'08 were all wet races.

But first win is always an important milestone for any driver.

Doesn't mean I expect Max to start winning now... And he would need right cars to win or challenge for championships. But he has plenty of time on his side.:)

[AndyL]

James Allen has a really interesting analysis of the strategy decisions:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016/05/spanish-gp-debrief-who-made-the-bigger-mistake-red-bull-or-ferrari/

[Big Ben]

Ricciardo should start looking for a new team. He's probably going to be Verstappen's b***h from now on at RBR, because it's the news with the new wonder kid that's going to sell better their poison.
I really hoped RBR would end up without an engine this year :(

[dj_bytedisaster]

Ricciardo should start looking for a new team. He's probably going to be Verstappen's b***h from now on at RBR, because it's the news with the new wonder kid that's going to sell better their poison.
I really hoped RBR would end up without an engine this year :(

Puts the '14 Canadian GP in a different light, doesn't it? Because that's when Seb got the same treatment in favour of RIC's maiden win...

[The Black Knight]

Puts the '14 Canadian GP in a different light, doesn't it? Because that's when Seb got the same treatment in favour of RIC's maiden win...

No, it's not the exact same. Seb didn't receive any different treatment. It's just all in your head.

[dj_bytedisaster]

No, it's not the exact same. Seb didn't receive any different treatment. It's just all in your head.

He was ahead of RIC, team messed up his strategy (even apologized for it). What difference?

[steveaki13]

Amazing to see Daniel have that puncture, pit and still finish 4th. Bottas showed how Williams are slipping back. 45 seconds behind. I mean if the Mercedes had finished, that would have been +1 minute with a clear run and maybe even a lap down.

[The Black Knight]

He was ahead of RIC, team messed up his strategy (even apologized for it). What difference?

Because you make it all sound as though it was all premeditated, which it wasn't. Every team messes up strategy from time to time. Look at Monaco last year with Lewis, which is probably the biggest strategy scew up we've seen for a long time. Shit happens and that's the difference. It wasn't a treatment by team it was a mistake.

[The Black Knight]

Too funny. That is why I have a new name for him. Period Boy.

LOL! Catchy. Applies well in this case.


Are you an imbecile? Just wondering, because there was no way that Ferrari was overtaking the Red Bull. Kimi had no tyre advantage and Max didn't make a mistake. The only way he could have overtaken Max would have been by ramming him out.
And if you want Kimi fired, what do you want done with Period Boy, who was slower than Kimi?

Vettelsaid afterwards that the Ferrari was quick than RBR and it was. His strategy was messed up. He was quicker than Kimi up until that point.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Vettel said afterwards that the Ferrari was quick than RBR and it was. His strategy was messed up. He was quicker than Kimi up until that point.

The strategy wasn't messed up as such. All teams were saying that the three-stopper would be the quicker strategy unless you got bogged down by traffic. Hembery said during the grid walk that the three-stopper would be 6 seconds quicker and that most likely only Merc would do only two stops once they were far enough out front.

The problem was that at race start the track temperature was down by 5 degrees centigrade in comparison to Saturday at the same time, which meant the medium compound could run significantly longer than the teams had anticipated. In theory RB and Ferrari did the right thing: split the strategy and cover each other.

The big 'mistake' of RB here was that every other team would have covered Vettel with Verstappen, because RIC was leading at the time, and giving away track position needlessly is a cardinal sin in terms of strategy. I'm still not convinced that it was a mere mistake. What easier way would there be to silence all the criticism of the Kvyat/Verstappen swap by having Max win on his debut, not to mention that it was PR gold.

[Bagwan]

After the race , commenting about the poor strategy decision , Horner said one thing that had me more believing that it was just a mistake , which was "You're always smarter afterwards ." .

Sure , it was easier with the other guy on the top step , but it still sounded like a "hands up" sorry .

[Big Ben]

Does anyone believe what Horner says anymore? I'm pretty sure they knew they were giving the better strategy to Verstappen and they did it for the headlines. Had Ricciardo passed Vettel and Raikkonen, which was very unlikely to begin with, what would have happened then?

[AndyL]

Both teams gave their number 1 driver what they thought was the number 1 strategy. Unless there was a consipracy between Red Bull and Ferrari to favour both Verstappen and Raikkonen, then it looks like the 2-stopper was a hedge bet that happened to pay off this time.

[N. Jones]

Amazing to see Daniel have that puncture, pit and still finish 4th. Bottas showed how Williams are slipping back. 45 seconds behind. I mean if the Mercedes had finished, that would have been +1 minute with a clear run and maybe even a lap down.

Agreed. What happened to their podium potential?

[N. Jones]

Does anyone believe what Horner says anymore? I'm pretty sure they knew they were giving the better strategy to Verstappen and they did it for the headlines. Had Ricciardo passed Vettel and Raikkonen, which was very unlikely to begin with, what would have happened then?

it seems to me that everyone knew the three stop was the slower strategy, so why put Ricciardo on it?

[Bagwan]

I think I read that 3 stops was going to be 6 seconds faster , but you would be required to make some passes as a result .

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think I read that 3 stops was going to be 6 seconds faster , but you would be required to make some passes as a result .

The three-stopper was faster on paper, but that went out the window when the medium ran longer than expected-

[Big Ben]

I think I read that 3 stops was going to be 6 seconds faster , but you would be required to make some passes as a result .

And they knew how hard it is to pass at Barcelona. I'm not even sure what these 6 seconds are supposed to mean. 6 seconds faster for the whole race? So the justification is that Ricciardo had on paper 6 whole seconds to pass Raikkonen and Verstappen?

[Bagwan]

The three-stopper was faster on paper, but that went out the window when the medium ran longer than expected-

And , they wouldn't have known that it would last longer , until it did , though , right ?

[Bagwan]

And they knew how hard it is to pass at Barcelona. I'm not even sure what these 6 seconds are supposed to mean. 6 seconds faster for the whole race? So the justification is that Ricciardo had on paper 6 whole seconds to pass Raikkonen and Verstappen?

Yep , 6 seconds for the whole race .
That's if traffic goes completely your way .

6 seconds at race speed is actually a considerable distance .

[Big Ben]

Yep , 6 seconds for the whole race .
That's if traffic goes completely your way .

6 seconds at race speed is actually a considerable distance .

And how was traffic going to go Ricciardo's way when they knew for sure there's going to be at least one guy he'll have to pass, the one they put in front of him? I guess, in the end, it's Ricciardo who f***ed up. They gave him 6 seconds to pass 3 cars and he just wasn't up to the task.