New Qualifying format a flop or not?

[Nitrodaze]

We watched the new qualifying format for the first time in action in Melbourne and what do we think? The first think l notice is the impact of commentating. There was little opportunity for typical chat about the car, the driving, strategies and track conditions etc. It was mostly about the time and the commentators had very little time to talk about anything else.

The new format only had a real effect in the mid fields. Qualifying three was a real flop as the teams that made it through only applied effort to attain the positions they realistically expect to be. There were fewer cars banging out lap times to better their position hence it was dull from the ticket paying spectators point of view.

The worrying thing was that qualifying has become alot more predictable. The count down time has sapped the excitement of crescendo that typically happen at the end of each qualifying session. It is very clear that it would not work going forward. Most of the team principles do not think it worked as anticipated. And there are calls already for this qualifying format t be dropped. I personally think it was crap. I wonder what you think.

[truefan72]

flop

[Rollo]

I personally thing it was crap. I wonder what you think.

I think it's awesome because I don't have to sit through any of them :D

I think that it's what Pay TV subscribers should get. Pay TV deserves this.
Taking half the races away from free-to-air is rubbish.

Rupert. This is your fault.

[Nitrodaze]

I think it's awesome because I don't have to sit through any of them :D

I think that it's what Pay TV subscribers should get. Pay TV deserves this.
Taking half the races away from free-to-air is rubbish.

Rupert. This is your fault.
You are right, the pay TV subscribers got stung with a crap show. And the Ticket spectators also got stung with a confusing show with less car action than the last qualifying system. Whoever came up with this idea should get an Oscar [or racing equivalent] for worst F1 idea ever.

[steveaki13]

Terrible but very funny for me sitting at home. :rotflmao:I mean who thought it would work? Stupid idea for spicing up the show and the organisers deserve the ridicule.

However the fans in the stands have been robbed. We had a few crazy minutes, but then cars in the pits most of the time going out, cars stopping half way round a good lap. Unless you were listening to radio or glued to a screen at the circuit you must have been confused.

Topped off by no runners in the final 5 minutes of quali.

It was the joke it deserved to be.

[zako85]

This new format is great to prevent the genuine fans from watching the qualifying sessions. It was a disaster.

I honestly don't know why I need to DVR and watch the quali sessions in future. It's pointless.

[Mark]

I didn't mind it in concept but the idea is to keep action on the track and it failed in that regard. It needs changes it doesn't necessarily have to go in the bin. But I doubt anyone would be bothered if we ditched it entirely.

[AndyL]

Q1 was pretty crazy, and you could call it entertainment I guess. Q2 started seeing cars parking up early and a lot of drivers out of the car and settling for their position long before they were timed out. Q3 was a disaster. Every single driver had got out of their cars, shaken the hands of their mechanics, been weighed, and gone out the back of the garages before the chequered flag.

On the other hand, great news for the TV channels showing highlights packages. They can edit out all the dead time and it will probably look pretty good. They now have better qualifying coverage than the channels showing it live.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I didn't mind it in concept but the idea is to keep action on the track and it failed in that regard. It needs changes it doesn't necessarily have to go in the bin. But I doubt anyone would be bothered if we ditched it entirely.

I think cars would have to be on track throughout the whole session for it to work as intended.

[inimitablestoo]

After Q1 I thought it was working. I very quickly revised that opinion completely. Difficult to see how we would have got any different a grid under the previous system, bar maybe the odd car being in or out that wouldn't have been expected.

It's the Melbourne fans I feel sorriest for. Every winter it seems F1 comes up with some madcap scheme to spice up the show and, as the first race, it's the Aussies who bear the brunt of the not thought through regs. And more than once, that system gets discarded and replaced with something more sensible before too long...

[steveaki13]

They are suggesting it will be dropped already. What a farce. Didn't need changing anyway but who thought this would work?

Did they actually think the teams would say "ok let's run all session in harder tyres to make a show"?

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk

[Bagwan]

Please , oh please , don't try any stupid tweaks to try to fix it !

Just change it back to the way it was just last year .

I said "please" . I even said it twice .

[Tazio]

Please , oh please , don't try any stupid tweaks to try to fix it !

Just change it back to the way it was just last year .

I said "please" . I even said it twice .
I agree with what ol' one ear said:

So this is really wrong, and we should change it quickly, get everybody here together, have a quick discussion about changed for Bahrain. People can make mistakes, this is a big mistake.

[N. Jones]

That was the most useless quali I have ever seen. I seriously hope they change the format back.

[Duncan]

Bernie presides over giant cockup. Film at eleven.

It sounds like it will be changed back to the old format in short order, as even Bernie is washing his hands of the whole thing, trying to blame the whole mess on the teams for not letting him implement his preferred reverse grid idea.

Bernie Ecclestone declares F1's new qualifying format 'pretty crap' (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123341/ecclestone-declares-new-qualifying-crap)


Ecclestone said he was "sure" the format could be revised in time for the second round of the season in Bahrain on the first weekend of April, but he warned against simply going back to the previous format.

"If we go back to the old system, I tell you what would happen: Mercedes would be first and second," he said. "Pretty simple.

Oddly, that's how it usually works when one team is faster. Why would you want a qualifying system that doesn't do that?

Niki Lauda introduced the world to an Austrian idiom (I presume), describing the new format as "Like digging in the toilet". As corporal Garlick would say, I have no idea what that means, but it sounds very negative to me.

[Tazio]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123362/qualifying-to-revert-to-old-formate

So much for that farce!

[airshifter]

It sucked worse than any format I've ever seen. And I can't see it getting better if they kept it. Too many quick cars just being caught out due to the timing changing constantly on who is on the bottom, with no time to recover unless the cars just somehow stay out banging in fast laps.

And watching the clock tick down with nobody on track, when with the old format they were all timing it to have just enough time to get the warm up lap and start a flyer. What a total mess and disappointment it was!

[Warriwa]

I loved the 'old' 'old' format. Every Driver has one crack at a fast lap. A single mistake would cost dearly. Beautiful. You all know the story.

[The Black Knight]

You know I don't mind F1 having tried something new but really they need to listen to the drivers and teams more, the guys whom are actually playing the game so to speak as they are the tacticians that will play out the rules. All the Engineers told F1 bosses that this would happen and no one listened.

Now you have Bernie wanting reversed grids after qualifying which is equally a daft idea as, instead of going flat out in qualifying, drivers will drive to a slowest time to try and start on pole.

The idiocy of all these ideas is dumbfounding.

Time to get back to basics. Get rid of the rubbish Pirelli tires and the different tire compounds throughout a race and DRS. F1 needs to be about the fastest guy gets pole first. Then the smartest and fastest goes onto win the race. These are core principles which shouldn't be deviated from, imo. Back to the days of single compound tires that allow a driver to push balls to the wall the entire stint and in qualifying. Make the cars lighter and thus more nimble.

Then their is the crux of the issue, which everyone seems to dance around - overtaking. Research a solution dedicated to solving overtaking. There has to be a way to counteract the downforce lost when following a car mid corner. If this issue was solved I think that people might finally shut up and stop complaining about F1 as really it's the lack of genuine overtaking is the root cause of all these bullshit rules they are introducing in order to "spice up the show".

[Bagwan]

Please , oh please , don't try any stupid tweaks to try to fix it !

Just change it back to the way it was just last year .

I said "please" . I even said it twice .


It is being reported that a return to last year's system was not on offer , but rather , that they could choose to have either longer first and second sessions , with a retro 3rd Q session , or a return to last race's system .

This puts the reason for it's last race failure in the laps of the teams , suggesting they got it all wrong .
Since they are being made scapegoat , we shouldn't expect to see any real improvement in it for the next race , as this would cement the opinion that it's not the system's fault .

Thus , qualifying will remain ridiculous until this power struggle is over .

Fans will walk in confused and angry droves .

[Rollo]

I loved the 'old' 'old' format. Every Driver has one crack at a fast lap. A single mistake would cost dearly. Beautiful. You all know the story.

I think that that's unforgiving.

I think two laps. Run through once; then again. Fastest lap counted. Running order determined by the fastest laps per driver in the "free" practice sessions.

At least that way, you'll see drivers who've done poorly one their first run, pull out whatever they can for their second.

[The Black Knight]

I felt that the new qualifying system worked quite well for Q1 and Q2. It was unfortunate that it was such a disaster for Q3. And now the new qualifying is staying for Bahrain because RBR and McLaren wanted to get rid of it entirely. They didn't want to compromise on a new solution of keeping Q1 and Q2 as it is and changing Q3 to the old format, which would have been the sensible approach. Then they could have tried tweaking it in a couple of races once it has been better thought out. The new qualifying system just needs a few tweaks is all.

This goes back to a core issue currently facing F1 and that is that McLaren and RBR shouldn't have the power to block qualifying changes if it is in the best interest of the sport. They should be told that this is the way it is going to be and that's it.

[MrJan]

I loved the 'old' 'old' format. Every Driver has one crack at a fast lap. A single mistake would cost dearly. Beautiful. You all know the story.

That's quite tedious though. I quite like the raw nature of having one shot at a hot lap but it really was dull to tune into for an hour.


I felt that the new qualifying system worked quite well for Q1 and Q2. It was unfortunate that it was such a disaster for Q3.

I found it needlessly confusing and didn't really think it offered anything more than last year's system, other than the possible injustice of a quick driver getting a grid slot based on the timing of the team.

If they want random grids to try and force some kind of excitement then they may as well go with a lottery system instead. Personally I thought we had a system that was about as interesting as it got. There was reasonable track action for most of the session, a tense final few minutes

[Bagwan]

I felt that the new qualifying system worked quite well for Q1 and Q2. It was unfortunate that it was such a disaster for Q3. And now the new qualifying is staying for Bahrain because RBR and McLaren wanted to get rid of it entirely. They didn't want to compromise on a new solution of keeping Q1 and Q2 as it is and changing Q3 to the old format, which would have been the sensible approach. Then they could have tried tweaking it in a couple of races once it has been better thought out. The new qualifying system just needs a few tweaks is all.

This goes back to a core issue currently facing F1 and that is that McLaren and RBR shouldn't have the power to block qualifying changes if it is in the best interest of the sport. They should be told that this is the way it is going to be and that's it.

OK , so how do you tweak it to make it any better ?

[anfield5]

It is just another pathetic gimmick aimed at making a broken F1 less predictable. How many times are we going have to put up with silly gimmicks like this?

Last year's quali was fine, even better go back to q1 on Friday afternoon with all drivers having an hour to set their best time, and repeat the show on Saturday. It was simple it was fair and it worked, it also gave Friday a purpose.

The function of qualifying is to set the race start order i.e. best to the front, not to try and mix up the grid, they may as well just draw lots out of a hat, or start the race in reverse order of the previous race finish

[steveaki13]

The function of qualifying is to set the race start order i.e. best to the front, not to try and mix up the grid, they may as well just draw lots out of a hat, or start the race in reverse order of the previous race finish

What you mean like a proper motorsport? and not like a "show"?

wow radical thinking. I like it Anfield. :p

[The Black Knight]

I found it needlessly confusing and didn't really think it offered anything more than last year's system, other than the possible injustice of a quick driver getting a grid slot based on the timing of the team.

If they want random grids to try and force some kind of excitement then they may as well go with a lottery system instead. Personally I thought we had a system that was about as interesting as it got. There was reasonable track action for most of the session, a tense final few minutes

With such a change to the qualifying system it's hardly surprising that a few found it confusing. That confusion would probably lift after a few rounds but, it's true all the same, that any sunshine viewer just switching on the TV for an hour would find it very hard to follow what was happening on track.


OK , so how do you tweak it to make it any better ?

There are numerous things that can be done. The most obvious thing for me being to revert to the old qualifying system for Q3 or divide Q3 up into two slices eliminating the bottom four in the first half and the top four in the second half. This would force cars to run again. There are plenty of options.

It is just another pathetic gimmick aimed at making a broken F1 less predictable. How many times are we going have to put up with silly gimmicks like this?

Last year's quali was fine, even better go back to q1 on Friday afternoon with all drivers having an hour to set their best time, and repeat the show on Saturday. It was simple it was fair and it worked, it also gave Friday a purpose.

The function of qualifying is to set the race start order i.e. best to the front, not to try and mix up the grid, they may as well just draw lots out of a hat, or start the race in reverse order of the previous race finish

Everyone seems so focused on the negatives of qualifying and there was a big negative to Q3 but the positives I take from this is that the drivers have finally spoken out and humiliated F1 bosses. This has been coming for a long time. They got their warning that this would happen with the current qualifying and they got their deserved humiliation as well. As a positive, maybe the next time they will listen to what the Engineers and drivers are going to say.

Yes, we all know that there is fundamental issues in F1 that need to be addressed but one of the fundamental issues is how decisions are made across the board and hopefully this will be the catalyst to change that process of governance.

[AndyL]

It is just another pathetic gimmick aimed at making a broken F1 less predictable. How many times are we going have to put up with silly gimmicks like this?

Last year's quali was fine, even better go back to q1 on Friday afternoon with all drivers having an hour to set their best time, and repeat the show on Saturday. It was simple it was fair and it worked, it also gave Friday a purpose.

The function of qualifying is to set the race start order i.e. best to the front, not to try and mix up the grid, they may as well just draw lots out of a hat, or start the race in reverse order of the previous race finish

The trouble with the old Friday/Saturday qualifying was that everyone who bought a ticket for Saturday wasted their money if the conditions turned out to have been better on Friday. The grid times all come from Friday and Saturday becomes an hour-long anticlimax.

The recent 3-phase knockout was good, and didn't need any fiddling around with, but a simple 1 hour on Saturday is a good system too. You'd see plenty of on-track action with that simple system if they just eased the limits on tyres and engines.

If we want to give Friday more of a purpose, I'd allow unlimited tyres and engines on Friday but not for the regular race drivers. It would give more of an opportunity to try out new drivers on Friday, without having to disadvantage one of your race drivers relative to the rest of the field.

[MrJan]

If we want to give Friday more of a purpose, I'd allow unlimited tyres and engines on Friday but not for the regular race drivers. It would give more of an opportunity to try out new drivers on Friday, without having to disadvantage one of your race drivers relative to the rest of the field.

That would be good, and hopefully would give teams a better chance to 'catch up' with design when a certain car is miles in front of the rest. Sadly it doesn't fit with the eco message though.

[The Black Knight]

If we want to give Friday more of a purpose, I'd allow unlimited tyres and engines on Friday but not for the regular race drivers. It would give more of an opportunity to try out new drivers on Friday, without having to disadvantage one of your race drivers relative to the rest of the field.

How many teams are going to risk that though? Testing new drivers carries with it an inherent high risk of them putting the car in the wall on a Friday, resulting in a potential complete rebuild over night. I can't see Mercedes or any top flight team taking this chance. The only reason another team might is for financial purposes.

[AndyL]

Here's an idea that came from someone out there internet land and was mentioned on the Sky P3 coverage:
2 qualifying sessions. Half the cars are knocked out in Q1 and half go for pole in Q2. But the wrinkle is, it's one car from each team that drops out at the end of Q1. As gimmicks go, it's pretty gimmicky, but I think it would actually be pretty exciting. There would be no coasting through Q1 for the front-runners, everyone would have to go for it.

[Koz]

Here's an idea that came from someone out there internet land and was mentioned on the Sky P3 coverage:
2 qualifying sessions. Half the cars are knocked out in Q1 and half go for pole in Q2. But the wrinkle is, it's one car from each team that drops out at the end of Q1. As gimmicks go, it's pretty gimmicky, but I think it would actually be pretty exciting. There would be no coasting through Q1 for the front-runners, everyone would have to go for it.

Oh dear god no!

[The Black Knight]

Well I have to say that I really enjoyed that qualifying. It wasn't all that much different to last year but the top 4 had a shootout again. The main difference is that the shootout happened before the clock ran down.

[Whyzars]

The brains trust wants to mix things up?

Using a drag of "0.03 seconds per lap per kilo" (I read it somewhere), qualifying with reserve fuel minimums of one kilo per championship point may just have the desired effect.




1
Hamilton
1:29.493
1.30.033



2
Rosberg
1:29.570
1.30.32
-1


3
Vettel
1:30.012
1.30.462
-1


4
Räikkönen
1:30.244
1.30.244
+2


5
Ricciardo
1:30.854
1.31.214



6
Bottas
1:31.153
1.31.273



7
Massa
1:31.155
1.31.445



8
Hulkenberg
1:31.620
1.31.8



9
Grosjean
1:31.756
1.31.996
-4


10
Verstappen
1:31.772
1.31.802
+1


11
Sainz
1:31.816
1.31.876
+1


12
Vandoorne
1:31.934
1.31.934
+1


13
Gutierrez
1:31.945
1.31.945
+1


14
Button
1:31.998
1:31.998







After only one race, Grosjean would be spitting his coffee at random strangers and Raikkonen might consider it poetic justice after his DNF in Australia.

The rules already say that a driver must return to the pits with a minimum amount of fuel after qualifying laps. All this approach would do is increase that minimum figure.

The other thing that this highlights is that I must never allow myself to become this bored again.

[janneppi]

The only this could really work is if the quali tyres work for 20 laps without a drop in performance and that cars wouldn't be faster when weighing less.
So it's electric cars and metal tyres for round three. :D

[steveaki13]

I think we should return to the 2006-2015 system. It seems to work OK and people enjoyed it. This constant need to mix up the grid really annoys me.

Fastest should be at the front. Thats what its about. Fastest guy & car combo on pole, the best package of car, driver and team wins the race and the best at all combined wins championship.

If you wanted to get the top cars on track more maybe you could go for 4 sessions in the hour. 15 minutes for the first and 22 runners compete to get into the top 17? Q2 a 10 minute session. Pressure is on for drivers to get out and put laps in. Top 12 into Q3.

The same for the 3rd session 10 minutes and leaving a final 10 minute session for the top 6 cars shooting for pole position.

That would get cars on circuit more in each session and it would be action all the way. No 10 minutes to sit around knowing you are through.

Otherwise I think F1 has many problems generally. It needs to be easier and cheaper to enter. You guys may not agree, but I dont even care if a 26 car grid is filled if the bottom couple of teams are 6 seconds or more off the pace. Smaller teams need to enter like the past. However costs should not be cut to be successful.

Its always been the way that top teams can spend more. I dont quite know if I want to see more regs to cut aero and make cars more exciting and harder to manually drive. Or less regs so that people can push the limit of technology to put the cars and drivers on edge again. I would like to see two tyre suppliers again and no rules on which tyres to use. Teams should have free reign. Same with Fuel. Bring back re fueling and allow full tanks or 4 stoppers.

I guess you cant un learn whats gone before so it will be hard to get F1 back to what I personally want to watch.

I am sure though F1 needs to be more a motorsport and less a show. Cars & Drivers trying to be the fastest in quali and the race.

[Duncan]

Fastest should be at the front. Thats what its about. Fastest guy & car combo on pole, the best package of car, driver and team wins the race and the best at all combined wins championship.

This. I really don't understand Bernie & Jean's apparent obsession with the need to "mix things up". It's a motor race. The fastest driver & car combination that makes it to the checquered flag is supposed to win.

And really, is Bernie concern with the races being "a bit boring" actually valid at this point? Right now we've had two really interesting races (all the way up and down the order!) and everything points to that situation continuing. All this nonsense with qualifying is creating a new problem in the name of solving one that doesn't exist.

[The Black Knight]

I think we should return to the 2006-2015 system. It seems to work OK and people enjoyed it. This constant need to mix up the grid really annoys me.

Fastest should be at the front. Thats what its about. Fastest guy & car combo on pole, the best package of car, driver and team wins the race and the best at all combined wins championship.

If you wanted to get the top cars on track more maybe you could go for 4 sessions in the hour. 15 minutes for the first and 22 runners compete to get into the top 17? Q2 a 10 minute session. Pressure is on for drivers to get out and put laps in. Top 12 into Q3.

The same for the 3rd session 10 minutes and leaving a final 10 minute session for the top 6 cars shooting for pole position.

That would get cars on circuit more in each session and it would be action all the way. No 10 minutes to sit around knowing you are through.

Otherwise I think F1 has many problems generally. It needs to be easier and cheaper to enter. You guys may not agree, but I dont even care if a 26 car grid is filled if the bottom couple of teams are 6 seconds or more off the pace. Smaller teams need to enter like the past. However costs should not be cut to be successful.

Its always been the way that top teams can spend more. I dont quite know if I want to see more regs to cut aero and make cars more exciting and harder to manually drive. Or less regs so that people can push the limit of technology to put the cars and drivers on edge again. I would like to see two tyre suppliers again and no rules on which tyres to use. Teams should have free reign. Same with Fuel. Bring back re fueling and allow full tanks or 4 stoppers.

I guess you cant un learn whats gone before so it will be hard to get F1 back to what I personally want to watch.

I am sure though F1 needs to be more a motorsport and less a show. Cars & Drivers trying to be the fastest in quali and the race.

This sums up what F1 should be about and also it sums up exactly why Bernie needs to go as well.

Finally, I don't believe that teams should be dictating the rules of the sport. Likewise, I don't believe that race promoters should either. Bernie is right when he says the team shouldn't have the control, it's only the FIA that should set what the rules are and leave it at that. If the teams want to take part they can and likewise with the promoters.

[zako85]

The old format was fine. The new format is crap. It simply ensures that most cars will stay in the garage in the closing minutes of the session (any one of the three sessions).

[Duncan]

...and now for another stupid idea. Let's do aggregate qualification times! Because what better to try now than something that has already been tried and was almost immediately abandoned because it was such a stupid idea?

Vettel and Button's comments sum up the situation pretty well:


Sebastian Vettel has labelled the proposed aggregate qualifying format as a "s*** idea"


Jenson Button, however, believes any change will be for the better given the failure of the current elimination format.

"We'll give it a go. It's all we can say. It's better than this one. I think everything's better than this one.

"I think drivers driving with one eye closed would be better than this one."

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vettel-slams-aggregate-f1-qualifying-format-idea-684705/

[Hawkmoon]

Qualifying can either be a way of finding out who is the quickest and rewarding them with a start at the front or it can be a way of starting a race in such a way as to garner the most 'entertainment'. The decision makers seem to want to do both at the same time and, in my view at least, it doesn't work.

If you want 'entertaining' races why not start each race in reverse championship order? It's clean, easy to understand and can't be 'gamed' by the teams. It makes a mockery of everything the sport stands for and the value of a grand prix win is effectively meaningless but at least the masses will be 'entertained' watching the front runners make their way through the field each race.

[Jag_Warrior]

This. I really don't understand Bernie & Jean's apparent obsession with the need to "mix things up". It's a motor race. The fastest driver & car combination that makes it to the checquered flag is supposed to win.

And really, is Bernie concern with the races being "a bit boring" actually valid at this point? Right now we've had two really interesting races (all the way up and down the order!) and everything points to that situation continuing. All this nonsense with qualifying is creating a new problem in the name of solving one that doesn't exist.

:bounce:

Qualifying was the one part of the grand prix weekend that actually worked and was exciting to watch (most of the time), and now it's not.

Yes, why can't they just LEAVE IT ALONE???!!!

[BleAivano]

Well, here we go. Qualifying format will be reverted to last year's format, starting at the Chinese GP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123660/f1-old-qualifying-format-back-from-china

[MrJan]

We've heard that before :D

[steveaki13]

We've heard that before :D

I want single lap aggregate qualifying in a solid one hour session with everyone waiting until the 58th minute to set a time and then randomly reverse sections of the grid.

[AndyL]

I want single lap aggregate qualifying in a solid one hour session with everyone waiting until the 58th minute to set a time and then randomly reverse sections of the grid.

The only way I could accept that is if they have a wheel of fortune with pictures of the drivers' faces stuck on it, to decide which part of the grid to reverse. That was so classy when they did it in BTCC.

[Bagwan]

"Lost in Space" response from our Bernie , saying that nobody understood at all that they were trying to "muddle up" the grid .

We all understood very well , simply because they never avoided any remote opportunity to tell us exactly that when being asked why such a stupid set of rules was being considered .

Really curious , when he could have characterized it as being a case of "listening to the fans" , which would , at the same time , demean the teams , showing them as unimportant in the process .
It seems strange to see such a missed dig .

I did see , though , that he had the teams agree to revamping the whole shootin' match for next year , so , this nightmare may not actually be over .


And , who knows , it could have all been designed to display the teams as a cartel , as we know the European Commission looms possible in the near future .
The whole change the qualifying idea was so stupid that it had me looking off to the side to see the man behind the curtain .
Maybe there's a bigger picture here .

[Whyzars]

I got bored again.

Qualifying with fuel minimums of one kilo per championship point (0.03 seconds per lap per kilo handicap).






After Handicap
New Grid
Change


1
Nico Rosberg
1:35.402
1:36.902
7
-6


2
Daniel Ricciardo
1:35.917
1:36.637
4
-2


3
Kimi Räikkönen
1:35.972
1:36.512
2
+1


4
Sebastian Vettel
1:36.246
1:36.696
5
-1


5
Valtteri Bottas
1:36.296
1:36.476
1
+5


6
Daniil Kvyat
1:36.399
1:36.579
3
+3


7
Sergio Perez
1:36.865
1:36.865
6
+1


8
Carlos Sainz
1:36.881
1:36.941
8



9
Max Verstappen
1:37.194
1:37.464
9



10
Nico Hulkenberg
1:37.333
1:37.513
10



11
Felipe Massa
1:37.347
1:37.767
11



12
Fernando Alonso
1:38.826
1:38.826
12



13
Jenson Button
1:39.093
1:39.093
13



14
Romain Grosjean
1:39.830
1:40.370
14













Bottas pole!!!

After 2 races, handicapping is working to mix up the top of the order. The cream will rise to the top in the race we would expect.

As the season progresses, a fuel weight handicap should begin to have an affect further down the order.

I'm thinking that Hamilton will finish on the podium tomorrow. I still have a feeling that mixing up qualifying is about creating gambling markets.

[inimitablestoo]

Beginning to think it doesn't matter what qualifying system they use if they're all going to crash into each other at the first corner - not an ideal way of shuffling the pack, but it seems to work :)

[Nitrodaze]

"Lost in Space" response from our Bernie , saying that nobody understood at all that they were trying to "muddle up" the grid .

We all understood very well , simply because they never avoided any remote opportunity to tell us exactly that when being asked why such a stupid set of rules was being considered .

Really curious , when he could have characterized it as being a case of "listening to the fans" , which would , at the same time , demean the teams , showing them as unimportant in the process .
It seems strange to see such a missed dig .

I did see , though , that he had the teams agree to revamping the whole shootin' match for next year , so , this nightmare may not actually be over .


And , who knows , it could have all been designed to display the teams as a cartel , as we know the European Commission looms possible in the near future .
The whole change the qualifying idea was so stupid that it had me looking off to the side to see the man behind the curtain .
Maybe there's a bigger picture here .
I bet they would try numbered balls in a bucket next.

[Garry Walker]

This new qualifying format was the creation of complete imbeciles. The sad part is that Bernie & Co will probably think of something even worse for 2017.

[Whyzars]

Beginning to think it doesn't matter what qualifying system they use if they're all going to crash into each other at the first corner - not an ideal way of shuffling the pack, but it seems to work :)


It is consistent for all drivers and easily implemented because current rules require drivers to return to the pits with a minimum fuel load. Different drivers would return with different minimums.




New
Old

Before
After
Cg
Handicap
Weight



1
3
Valtteri Bottas
1:36.536
1:36.746
+2
0.21
+7



2
2
Sebastian Vettel
1:36.123
1:37.113
0
0.99
+33



3
7
Sergio Perez
1:37.212
1:37.212
+4
0
0



4
4
Kimi Räikkönen
1:36.663
1:37.503
0
0.84
+28



5
1
Nico Rosberg
1:35.417
1:37.667
-4
2.25
+75



6
5
Felipe Massa
1:37.016
1:37.676
-1
0.66
+22



7
9
Max Verstappen
1:37.583
1:37.973
+2

0.39
+13



8
8
Daniil Kvyat
1:37.459
1:38.089
0
0.63
+21



9
6
Daniel Ricciardo
1:37.125
1:38.205
-3
1.08
+36















































Anyway, just playing but Bottas is on pole again.

From this race onward, the extra weight will begin to influence who graduates from Q2 to Q1. Good to see Perez in the mix.

[Garry Walker]

It is consistent for all drivers and easily implemented because current rules require drivers to return to the pits with a minimum fuel load. Different drivers would return with different minimums.




New
Old

Before
After
Cg
Handicap
Weight



1
3
Valtteri Bottas
1:36.536
1:36.746
+2
0.21
+7



2
2
Sebastian Vettel
1:36.123
1:37.113
0
0.99
+33



3
7
Sergio Perez
1:37.212
1:37.212
+4
0
0



4
4
Kimi Räikkönen
1:36.663
1:37.503
0
0.84
+28



5
1
Nico Rosberg
1:35.417
1:37.667
-4
2.25
+75



6
5
Felipe Massa
1:37.016
1:37.676
-1
0.66
+22



7
9
Max Verstappen
1:37.583
1:37.973
+2

0.39
+13



8
8
Daniil Kvyat
1:37.459
1:38.089
0
0.63
+21



9
6
Daniel Ricciardo
1:37.125
1:38.205
-3
1.08
+36















































Anyway, just playing but Bottas is on pole again.

From this race onward, the extra weight will begin to influence who graduates from Q2 to Q1. Good to see Perez in the mix.

To be honest, your qualifying format "idea" makes me vomit

[Whyzars]

To be honest, your qualifying format "idea" makes me vomit


Thats a new one for me, I have never heard of an "idea" acting as an emetic. The DRS and KERS had a similar effect on me but from the other end.

I was actually thinking that I may not put up any more tables now that Rosberg has filled his tank. The thought of your keyboard swimming in cheap wine and vindaloo may be all the encouragement I need to continue.

Thank you for your input.

[Garry Walker]

Thats a new one for me, I have never heard of an "idea" acting as an emetic. The DRS and KERS had a similar effect on me but from the other end.

I was actually thinking that I may not put up any more tables now that Rosberg has filled his tank. The thought of your keyboard swimming in cheap wine and vindaloo may be all the encouragement I need to continue.

Thank you for your input.

Make sure that as you continue your quest for this holy new qualifying system, you don't overlook your real duty - asking me "do you want fries with that" when I order a burger.

[Whyzars]

...don't overlook your real duty - asking me "do you want fries with that" when I order a burger.






The latest grid installment at .03 seconds per kilogram handicap:




New
Old

Before
After
Cg
Handicap Secs
Weight Kgs


1
1
Lewis Hamilton
1:22.000
1:23.171
0
1.71
57


2
4
Max Verstappen
1:23.087
1:23.477
+2
0.39
13


3
3
Daniel Ricciardo
1:22.680
1:23.760
0
1.08
36


4
8
Carlos Sainz
1:23.643
1:23.775
+4
0.12
4


5
9
Sergio Perez
1:23.782
1:23.842
+4
0.06
2


6
7
Valtteri Bottas
1:23.522
1:24.092
+1
0.57
19


7
10
Fernando Alonso
1:23.981
1:24.221
+3
0.24
8


8
6
Sebastian Vettel
1:23.334
1:24.324
-2
0.99
33


9
12
Jenson Button
1:24.348
1:24.378
+3
0.03
1


10
11
Nico Hulkenberg
1:24.203
1:24.383
+1
0.18
6


11
5
Kimi Räikkönen
1:23.113
1:24.403
-6
1.29
43


12
2
Nico Rosberg
1:22.280
1:25.280
-10
3.00
100














Applying a weight handicap in qualifying could be a way forward for F1. Only trigger the DRS by cars under blue flag could be another. We might actually see some racing again.

It sure beats a re-write of the rule book.

[Garry Walker]

Applying a weight handicap in qualifying could be a way forward for F1.
Also, castrating yourself could be used for weight-loss. Just as good an idea as yours :idea:

[The Black Knight]

I still don't really understand why everyone is so obsessed with changing a qualifying format that works really well right now. If it isn't broken then don't fix it.

As Ross Brawn said, they tried many different formats before coming up with this one that works really well so why change it?

If you're to change anything in F1 then start by getting rid of DRS and bring Back a tire war. That's a sure way to get drivers racing flat out lap after lap again and stop artificial overtaking.

[Whyzars]

I still don't really understand why everyone is so obsessed with changing a qualifying format that works really well right now. If it isn't broken then don't fix it.

As Ross Brawn said, they tried many different formats before coming up with this one that works really well so why change it?

If you're to change anything in F1 then start by getting rid of DRS and bring Back a tire war. That's a sure way to get drivers racing flat out lap after lap again and stop artificial overtaking.


Absolutely no argument from me especially on the DRS but I saw the qualifying changes as trying to address a bigger problem.


I don't think that the Mercedes is qualifying to its full potential but being managed "equally" such that the grid 1 and 2 is guaranteed. Nobody would argue that Spain is a very different race if Nico starts in 12th place.


The formula is supposed to be an engineering challenge but what to do when that challenge is clearly won? They're limiting the available fuel :rolleyes: so its not like Ferrari can unveil a new V12 dual turbo engine. Banning was F1's way of dealing with dominance in the past but F1 has signed itself up to something it can't really ban - there's no getting the hybrid sh*t back in the hybrid horse so to speak.


Mercedes needs to be challenged in a way that doesn't penalise their race expectations and a weight handicap for qualifying seems logical. No change to the qualifying format is necessary and cars will just need to return to the pits with the required minimum amount of fuel in their tank - just as they do now.


I would actually like to see the full Mercedes potential and what a true marvel that car really is.