Should Bourdais be in F1?

[raphael123]

I find it almost criminal that this talented (I wish I could say 'young' - but he's 28 now!) frenchman has never been given a proper opportunity to crack F1. Especially when you see the likes of Sutil and Monteiro getting race seats, and the likes of Sato, who after disappointing years at Jordon, then at BAR was still able to get a drive.

Without taking anything away from the likes of Rosberg, and Heikki, who are both talented drivers, but Bourdais has achieved a lot more outside of F1, and won the former GP2 series F3000, yet apart from a drive at Arrows which fell through when Arrows went bankrupt, he hasn’t been given a proper opportunity I think unfortunately for him, he wasn’t prepared to let Flavio take all his money, and was therefore never given a chance at Renault, which for a Frenchman, at the time, seemed inevitable.

His record in Champcar, even if it's not what it was is mighty impressive. He must be close to breaking all previous records no? I am not a huge follower of Champcar, so can't comment too much, but when I do watch it, it reminds me of the dominance that Schumacher had here, and Loeb is currently enjoying in the WRC, and Rossi in the MotoGP!

[Corny]

money talks? :P

[ioan]

He definitely should be in F1 by now, but the French connection was cut of by The Sweaty Italian!

[Ranger]

His record in Champcar, even if it's not what it was is mighty impressive. He must be close to breaking all previous records no?

Yes, he should be given the opportunity. I think he would be at least on the pace if not quicker than a Heidfeld or Webber and other drivers that currently occupy top and/or improving teams.

To answer your question, (Excluding statistics previous to 1979 in the USAC days), Michael Andretti has won the most CART/ChampCar races (42 race wins from 309 starts - that name isn't too promising for an F1 aspirant). Sebastian has 25 wins from 62 starts, also being the only driver since Ted Horn in the late 1940's to win three consecutive major AOWR titles and at the moment he looks like going one better. He would break every notable CART/ChampCar record if he was around there for another 3 - 5 years.

So yes I think he should be given an F1 ride. He is talent that is just sitting there. F1 teams would be best to get him before he expires... not that that mattered in Damon Hill's case.

[raphael123]

Yes, he should be given the opportunity. I think he would be at least on the pace if not quicker than a Heidfeld or Webber and other drivers that currently occupy top and/or improving teams.

To answer your question, (Excluding statistics previous to 1979 in the USAC days), Michael Andretti has won the most CART/ChampCar races (42 race wins from 309 starts - that name isn't too promising for an F1 aspirant). Sebastian has 25 wins from 62 starts, also being the only driver since Ted Horn in the late 1940's to win three consecutive major AOWR titles and at the moment he looks like going one better. He would break every notable CART/ChampCar record if he was around there for another 3 - 5 years.

So yes I think he should be given an F1 ride. He is talent that is just sitting there. F1 teams would be best to get him before he expires... not that that mattered in Damon Hill's case.

Wow, are there fewer races per year or something? I knew his success rate was high, but that is incredibly high! I don't know if it's still the case, but Justin Wilson was doing a decent job over there wasn't he?

I'd love to see Bourdais given a chance - however, like Wheldon, I don't think he'd leave America where he is regarded as the No1, to drive a Spyker. It'd have to be a big team. Maybe if Toyota finally dropped Ralf or Trulli they could bring in Bourdais! If Flavio wasn't boss at Renault, I'm pretty sure he would have had a good chance of getting that drive instead of Heikki, or even replacing Fisi next year, but that seems to be going to Piquet unless Heikki messes so they keep Fisi, or Fisi suddenly becomes World Championship material.

Yes, Damon Hill didn't start in F1 till, 30 was it? However I think those days are long gone now. I think you can do a decent job, but unless you jump straight into a top team with a top car, entering F1 at that age doesn't give you much time to find yourself in a top car, and have the experience needed to win the title.

[millencolin]

he will be in f1 next year driving for STR!

but he wont win the ChampCar World Series this year, no no that will go to Will Power


Trust me i know these things

[raphael123]

he will be in f1 next year driving for STR!

but he wont win the ChampCar World Series this year, no no that will go to Will Power


Trust me i know these things

Where's your source regarding him driving for STR. I'm surprised - they are hardly going to set the world a light. RedBull would be a possibility though maybe? I'm guessing Bourdais is known by american motorsport fans? Therefore RedBull may be tempted to bring him in alongside Webber, to replace the retiring DC. Just a thought.

[Ranger]

Wow, are there fewer races per year or something? I knew his success rate was high, but that is incredibly high! I don't know if it's still the case, but Justin Wilson was doing a decent job over there wasn't he?

I'd love to see Bourdais given a chance - however, like Wheldon, I don't think he'd leave America where he is regarded as the No1, to drive a Spyker. It'd have to be a big team. Maybe if Toyota finally dropped Ralf or Trulli they could bring in Bourdais! If Flavio wasn't boss at Renault, I'm pretty sure he would have had a good chance of getting that drive instead of Heikki, or even replacing Fisi next year, but that seems to be going to Piquet unless Heikki messes so they keep Fisi, or Fisi suddenly becomes World Championship material.

Yes, Damon Hill didn't start in F1 till, 30 was it? However I think those days are long gone now. I think you can do a decent job, but unless you jump straight into a top team with a top car, entering F1 at that age doesn't give you much time to find yourself in a top car, and have the experience needed to win the title.

Hill made his debut for the back of the grid Brabham team (and was testing for Williams) in the year he turned 32. So that's like an undistinguished driver joining F1 this year who is Ralf Schumacher's age! :\ But that's another story.

There are currently (and have been around) 14 races in the ChampCar season since 2004 (there was 19 races in 2003). Justin Wilson mounted a decent enough title challenge last year, inheriting 2nd place when Allmendinger who got 5 wins that season announced he was off to NASCAR (don't ask me about '05 - I wasn't watching then), but has won 3 races in 43 starts - I'm starting to get the impression he is sinking into the CCWS mid-field though (that's my impression from results as I don't have coverage).

I would be pretty happy if Bourdais replaced Coulthard for next year, supposing DC is dropped. STR had Bourdais do a three-day test in the off-season sometime... In the three days he was on the pace of Liuzzi and had beaten the time of speed, and Berger said he would be interested - or something along those lines.

[Valve Bounce]

There are many drivers who should be in F1 but are not. There are only 22 slots right now and some of the lower places are taken up by pay drivers. Sato is in F1 although Honda fired him because there would have been one helluva backlash in Japan if he wan't - so Honda helped form the Super Aguri team to keep him in F1. Albers and Sutil are pay drivers, Liuzzi and Speed, well I don't know,; Liuzzi is supposed to be good, and Speed I don't know.

But there are only limited seats in F1.

[Roamy]

I don't know why SB would even consider a move to a **** team in F1. His life is quite good now and the team is quite professional. Now is Spyker or Torro really upped his salary then perhaps. But I don't thiink either of these teams would match his current salary.

[F1boat]

Bourdais is a very good driver, maybe too good for CCWS (I am not bashing CCWS here). But with all respect to his incredible records, some of the top-drivers in the USA are in the rival IRL series, so I don't know whether Bourdais would have been that successful in a unified Formula, or would have been great, but not that dominant.
But really it is better to be record=-breaker in CCWS than 20th in F1 (which he will be if he is in STR), so I think that he'll stay in the USA.

[rlenis]

I think he and Castroneves should do very well in F1.

[rlenis]

I think he and Castroneves should do very well in F1.

[Zsolt]

I definitely think Bourdais should be in F1 but i'd hate to see him leave Champ Car. I'm not quite sure why he hasn't been in F1 the past couple of years, lack of money?

/French Connection.....awesome movie.

[f1icemen]

100% yes he should :)

[cy bais]

I too would love to see Bourdais drive in F1 even for a team that's mid-field at best, it's still a drive in F1 :)

Cy

[trumperZ06]

;) Hhmmmm... SeeBass should have been in Formula 1 a couple of years ago... with Renault !!!

:p : Flavio never forgave Bourdais when SB refused Flavio's offer of indentured servitude !!!

:D IMO... SeeBass would have been a contender for WDC... now age is against him. He has a good life in Champ Car and is settled in Florida... why change?

[jens]

Should he be in F1? Well, it's up to team principals to decide. :)

He definetely has the talent and he might even be among the top drivers, but you can never say for sure until he has finally driven some races in F1 - Zanardi was also expected to do miracles after his back-to-back CART-titles and look, what happened...

One of the main problems for Bourdais probably is that the reputation of Champ Car has clearly fallen after 2001-2002, when several CART drivers and teams joined IRL. 2002 Champion da Matta is continually the last driver, who has come to F1 from a North America series. Also new competitive series GP2 instead of the previous F3000 (which also started losing its spark in the last seasons) has reduced the attention given for Champ Car.

[Ian McC]

I don't know why SB would even consider a move to a **** team in F1. His life is quite good now and the team is quite professional.

Exactly, would take a top team to lure him into F1

[Copse]

Plus he just may be liking the states compared to the Frog Sh!hole he comes from.

You are aware what town in France he is from, right....? Using that kind of language about that place among motorsports fans, i dunno about that... ;)

[truefan72]

yes, he should be in F1. If yopu watch the way he drives, with pace, agressivness and a controlled temperament, he will do very well in F1. JI hope to see him in Toyota or Red Bull next year

[truefan72]

I.. Plus he just may be liking the states compared to the Frog Sh!hole he comes from...

completely uncalled for Fousto, please keep your ignorant and useless remarks to yourself

[LTalbot]

I'm a huge ChampCar fan and part of me would hate to see Sebastian leave for Formula 1, but I also love F1 and would love to see him drive for a competitive team, and competitive STR is not. Personally I would like to see Sebastian replace Fischicella because Giancarlo WILL be out next year, and a frenchman might as well drive the Renault.

Unfortunatley some of the ChampCar fans appreciate Bourdais as much as the hillbilly NASCAR fans appreciate Jeff Gordon. At least the ChampCar fans don't throw beer at him, they just boo his accomplishments and cheer his few failures. Too bad, he is a great driver and a nice guy.

[Timber]

Plus he just may be liking the states compared to the Frog Sh!hole he comes from. But I suppose he would live in Monaco if he returned

Typical American , insulting other countries . I have seen plenty of Sh**hole here .
you probably have never been there . Stick to racing , fool

[ChrisS]

I don't know why SB would even consider a move to a **** team in F1. His life is quite good now and the team is quite professional. Now is Spyker or Torro really upped his salary then perhaps. But I don't thiink either of these teams would match his current salary.

According to Robin Miller he grossed $1,282,500 in 2006, less than 700K salary plus another 500k prize money for winning the championship, less than the guy who finished 43rd in Nextel cup.

I think thats about the same as F1 rookies (Kubica, Kovalainen) make, STR can match it if they want

Also he is from Le Mans (where he will also be racing at the 24 hours this year) and as pointed out that is holy ground for motorsport fans

[Valve Bounce]

Things could be quite different next year when customer cars finally become legal. It will then be possible for any newcomer to F1 to have the chance to drive a car that is properly developed in the lessor teams. I would say that Torro Rosso, Spyker and Supre Aguri would be much more competitive and attractive then. Also Prodrive. Some of these teams might actually become factory B Teams.

[ClarkFan]

Things could be quite different next year when customer cars finally become legal. It will then be possible for any newcomer to F1 to have the chance to drive a car that is properly developed in the lessor teams. I would say that Torro Rosso, Spyker and Supre Aguri would be much more competitive and attractive then. Also Prodrive. Some of these teams might actually become factory B Teams.

Probably not Spyker, unless they buy someone else's car. Doubt that Maranello would sell Spyker chassis to go with the enignes they rent.

And Red Bull hasn't really been top drawer this year, so the propects of STR may be so-so. I suspect that Mateschitz may be finding that F1 can soak up all the money to be made from selling hyper-caffienated sludge, and is pressed to get the budget up to the top rung.

Prodrive and Aguri could get into the limelight, but Aguri is still pretty tied to Sato, and I remeber Richards making noises about driver selections already.

Now, there will be a fair number of seats in play after this year. I would think that a smart team principal would want to give Bourdais a test, but that should have been true in the past, too. Bourdais doesn't bring money, only talent, so for him it is a self-sustaining team or nothing.

ClarkFan

[pits4me]

I'd like to see him driving a car powered by Renault. If not ING Renault then replace Couthard in 2008.

[Valve Bounce]

I suppose his chances of driving for Renault would depend entirely to his agreeing to have Sleazy Flav for his manager. However, there are other drivers knocking on doors, some with fists full of money and sponsor potential, so anything can happen here.

[Roamy]

According to Robin Miller he grossed $1,282,500 in 2006, less than 700K salary plus another 500k prize money for winning the championship, less than the guy who finished 43rd in Nextel cup.

I think thats about the same as F1 rookies (Kubica, Kovalainen) make, STR can match it if they want

Also he is from Le Mans (where he will also be racing at the 24 hours this year) and as pointed out that is holy ground for motorsport fans

I have heard figures around 6 million for SB - however if you are correct he may well make a move as he is worth much more

[ChrisS]

this is from where I got the figures

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/35227/

the quote about the Daytona 500 below the first picture is what surprised me the most

[raphael123]

Plus he just may be liking the states compared to the Frog Sh!hole he comes from. But I suppose he would live in Monaco if he returned

Typical American , insulting other countries . I have seen plenty of Sh**hole here .
you probably have never been there . Stick to racing , fool

Are the moderators happy to have this kind of talk?

If this was about a race, or a religion, people would be going crazy! However it's about the french, it seems fine.

If I said something like that about Karthikeyan, along similar lines, but apart india rather than france - it would be considered outrageous, because it would be considered racist. However because it's against a nation (dare I say it - a mainly white population?) rather than a race, this somehow make's it acceptable?

Sort it out mods please - I find it very offensive!

[Komahawk]

IMO he deserves a shot. But F1-teams are generally sceptical about drivers from the current US-OW scene. Let's face it, Bourdais is dominating a rather weak series. Tracy is injured, Wilson gets crashed out every race. The rest of the pack is simply too weak to seriously challenge Bourdais. His (quite impressive) successes cannot be compared to those of Villeneuve (who won the CART title in a unified and highly respected series) nor Montoya (who won the CART title when the scene was already split, however all the high profile teams were still in CART at that time).
Even the IRL would be a much tougher challenge for Bourdais, and he'd struggle to make the top5 there.

[Timber]

Are you kidding , IRL is a joke ... Runing around in circle .. Bourdais would win that serie in the first year ...

[rlenis]

Are you kidding , IRL is a joke ... Runing around in circle .. Bourdais would win that serie in the first year ...

I don't think so.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Well, I think it is fair to say that oval and road course racing is different enough to make a direct transition difficult. My own guess is that Bourdais would struggle as much in IRL as Hornish would in Champ Car.

[rlenis]

Hornish sucks in road courses. He is not a good example. If you put Castroneves, or Kannan, even Wheldon in CHAMP they would be fighting for wins every weekend.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Hornish sucks in road courses. He is not a good example. If you put Castroneves, or Kannan, even Wheldon in CHAMP they would be fighting for wins every weekend.

Which is why Hornish is a perfect for my transition example. He is of oval background, and Bourdais of roadcourses. I do not debate the talent of the IRL field, which is certainly above CC, only the skill required to move from being an all oval race to all road courses or the other way around.

[Timber]

you seem to forget that Bourdais has won oval races

[Valve Bounce]

you seem to forget that Bourdais has won oval races


I really cannot understand the significance.

[Komahawk]

Are you kidding , IRL is a joke ... Runing around in circle .. Bourdais would win that serie in the first year ...

Bourdais would be my first pick on the road races, but still guys like Castroneves, Dixon, Kanaan and Franchitti would give him more than just a good run.
And on the ovals Hornish and Wheldon would make short business of him. In fact Bourdais himself has admitted during a pre-season interview, that he's "not the best oval racer in the world".

Back to topic: I still rate him very highly, and ovals are no issue in F1. He has an engineering background and is very entusiastic about technology, so he's predestined for F1. And he'd EASILY bash out Speed and Liuzzi. I'd even go as far to say that he could beat any driver in F1 as a team mate.

[Ian McC]

You can say that there are a few drivers out there that 'deserve' to drive if F1 but deserving doesn't get you a seat and if he isn't going to drive for one of the smaller teams then he may not get a chance.

[ShiftingGears]

I'd even go as far to say that he could beat any driver in F1 as a team mate.

He's good, I think he deserves a place in F1, but he's not THAT good.

[Valve Bounce]

Bourdais would be my first pick on the road races, but still guys like Castroneves, Dixon, Kanaan and Franchitti would give him more than just a good run.
And on the ovals Hornish and Wheldon would make short business of him. In fact Bourdais himself has admitted during a pre-season interview, that he's "not the best oval racer in the world".

Back to topic: I still rate him very highly, and ovals are no issue in F1. He has an engineering background and is very entusiastic about technology, so he's predestined for F1. And he'd EASILY bash out Speed and Liuzzi. I'd even go as far to say that he could beat any driver in F1 as a team mate.

Wheldon used to race against bunsen and ant in the lower grades. It's just luck of the draw really.

[Big Ben]

yes, he should.

[Komahawk]

Wheldon used to race against bunsen and ant in the lower grades. It's just luck of the draw really.

Luck of the draw, eh. Well he got that one chance and took it. He's one of the best drivers in the series. On the other hand Briscoe also got his chance and he failed miserably, although by then he was actually supposed to use the IRL as a stepping stone for F1.

[gjalie]

wenn you see that f1 backmarkers are doing well in champcar what says that of seabass.

[blakebeatty]

better to have bourdais than marco andretti

[rlenis]

wenn you see that f1 backmarkers are doing well in champcar what says that of seabass.

backmarkers in F1 because they drove for backmarkers teams. That's all.

[ChrisS]

wenn you see that f1 backmarkers are doing well in champcar what says that of seabass.

Are you talking about Wilson? He is a very good driver, he just never got a proper chance in F1

[Komahawk]

I remember Wilson being praised as a "fantastic starter" in F1. And he really was, in a Minardi he out-started 2 or 3 rows, and only lost the positions due to his lame car. Webber beat him in a Jaguar, but Wilson only got 3 or 4 attempts and it was his first season. I'm sure he'd beat Webber by now.



Back to toppic: ANYTHING Liuzzi or Speed accomplished thus far, Bourdais could do with one hand on the wheel and the other one in his nose. Period.

[aryan]

what propper chance? Jaguar did everything they could to accomodate him. He just didn't perform.

Anyway this is old...

Many people in the paddock (i.e. FW) don't rate Champcar highly, and Bourdais has made it clear he doesn't want to start with a backmarker or a midfield team. He wants to be in F1, but only in a top team. Well tough luck, not many people get the chance to start in a top team, most (Alonso, Kimi, Massa) start either in midfield or with a backmarker. Bourdais doesn't want to accept this, and hence he has been left out of F1. His choice really...

[aryan]

Back to toppic: ANYTHING Liuzzi or Speed accomplished thus far, Bourdais could do with one hand on the wheel and the other one in his nose. Period.

Yes, but the difference is that Liuzzi and Speed were willing to race (and even test) for RBR and STR while Bourdais wasn't.

[wmcot]

He has the talent and the mindset to succeed in F1, but this would be lost at the back of the grid. If he got a Red Bull or Renault drive (maybe Flav will beg him to come over with the results so far this year?) he might have the ability to show his skills.

[Komahawk]

Yes, but the difference is that Liuzzi and Speed were willing to race (and even test) for RBR and STR while Bourdais wasn't.

Oh. I wasn't aware of that. I always thought that SB would sign for any F1 ride being offered, only that he never got any offers. He really refused the STR ride? That would be sheer dumbness. If he beat his team mate and didn't wreck cars there'd have been a good chance of "moving up". Plus, the STR wage is probably alot higher than the Newman/Haas wage.

[ClarkFan]

wenn you see that f1 backmarkers are doing well in champcar what says that of seabass.

That he seems to have a full second a lap on them whenever he needs it. In an identical car. Maybe he is just a bit better than they are..... :\

ClarkFan

[kalasend]

backmarkers in F1 because they drove for backmarkers teams. That's all.

backmarkers in F1 because they drove for backmarkers teams, AND failed to impress bosses of higher teams

[jens]

Webber beat him in a Jaguar, but Wilson only got 3 or 4 attempts and it was his first season. I'm sure he'd beat Webber by now.


How can you be so sure about that?

[gjalie]

backmarkers in F1 because they drove for backmarkers teams. That's all.

his champcar team isn't average too, would like to see him drive in a pacific coast car. maybe he's scared to fail in f1 and chooses to be in a top champcar team,

but drivers like Wilson, Doornbos and Glock are and weren't doing too bad in champcar but were not found good enough for f1

but bourdais may replace a Speed or Liuzzi anytime when i had a say in it.

[Komahawk]

How can you be so sure about that?

He comes over quite confident now. He's won CC races and at some point even challenged Bourdais for the title. Webber doesn't seem to get any better. Maybe just my impression, hard to compare two drivers in two series.