Corvette racing: LMS GT1 or ALMS GT2

[harvick#1]

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070425/FREE/70425017/1001

I really hope they stay, but I just don't understand why GT1 is just falling apart. guess its time to get the old Toyota (TS020), Nissan R390, Porsche 911 GT1, and Mercedes CLK-GTR out of retirement and back to save a dying class. now that would be something, having three classes competing for an overall win :D

[grassrootsracer]

It'd be awesome to see Aston Martin, Oreca Saleen (or any of the other Saleen teams from the LMS), a factory effort from Dodge, Ferrari (privateer since the factory only seems interested in F1) -- I miss the battles between the 550M's and Corvettes, and perhaps some new cars (Lambo, Mosler, etc) joining Corvette in GT1 so that they don't have to make this decision. Since that is a bit idealized, I'd rather see Corvette/Pratt & Miller move to GT2 than completely leave the ALMS altogether. I can't imagine an American racing series without a staple American sports car.

[grassrootsracer]

Any speculation as to what's causing a GT1 exodus in the ALMS? Perhaps the constant rule changes drove away Aston Martin/Prodrive?

[tannat]

They should step down to GT2. They've won their battles in GT1. Really nothing else for them to accomplish. Perhaps the ACO will see fit to create a single GT class.


It really doesn't make sense for AM, Maserati, Lamborghini etc to come over here to race. Not when the LMS is looking good, as well as the FIA GT. Their sponsors are in Europe as well. If anything, the vettes should go to the LMS to compete. The real racing is across the pond in every class, not here.

The ALMS has to be content with what they are getting. The "Build it, and they will come" notion simply doesn't work for auto racing. At least the ALMS is racing under the same regs (well, except for LMP2) as the 24 Hours of Le Mans, and not under separate regs as the 70s, 80s, and part of the 90s.

[Hoss Ghoul]

The rule changes were mostly in favor of Aston Martin and they were still beaten. Everyone fled GT1 and isn't coming back because of Corvette's dominance.

I'm still in agreement with Penske, sports car racing should have 2 clases. Prototypes and and GT class somewhere between the current GT1 and GT2 classes....look at the size of the fields in Grand Am for an example of this. Given the cars and regs are a bit different, but the 2 class system is a success over there.

[Erki]

LMS GT1 isn't that much better than ALMS GT1. Just some 7 cars. Take a look at FIA GT: 15 GT1s!

[Bob Riebe]

At least the ALMS is racing under the same regs (well, except for LMP2) as the 24 Hours of Le Mans, and not under separate regs as the 70s, 80s, and part of the 90s.

THat is the very reason they are the pathetic show they are now; dump the asinine ACO connection and go back to the rules that made them great, especially in the seventies and eighties.

UNTIL they do that they are going nowhere fast.

Bob

[tannat]

THat is the very reason they are the pathetic show they are now; dump the asinine ACO connection and go back to the rules that made them great, especially in the seventies and eighties.

UNTIL they do that they are going nowhere fast.

Bob


What you are suggesting has already been accomplished-it's called Grand Am.

ALMS just needs to stand strong and hope for entries. I don't think alternate formula's will attract more entries. Aside from GT1 and LMP1 the fields are healthy. The series is far from a breaking point...

[Bob Riebe]

What you are suggesting has already been accomplished-it's called Grand Am.

ALMS just needs to stand strong and hope for entries. I don't think alternate formula's will attract more entries. Aside from GT1 and LMP1 the fields are healthy. The series is far from a breaking point...

ROFLMAO--GARRA is about as far from what the IMSA once was, as it can get.
Slowmobile Ps, and tube frame or near street stock GTs.

ALMS is pathetic, but it is not a NASCAR wannabe.
Oh that is right, except for the top two classes it is doing fine; I know, everyone goes to major races just to see the minor classes.
Yea right.

Bob

[tannat]

ROFLMAO--GARRA is about as far from what the IMSA once was, as it can get.
Slowmobile Ps, and tube frame or near street stock GTs.

ALMS is pathetic, but it is not a NASCAR wannabe.
Oh that is right, except for the top two classes it is doing fine; I know, everyone goes to major races just to see the minor classes.
Yea right.

Bob

What would you propose? IMSA 70's and 80's were simply variations on ACO classes. Why deviate now when the original is floundering?

[Bob Riebe]

What would you propose? IMSA 70's and 80's were simply variations on ACO classes. Why deviate now when the original is floundering?

THe ACO had zero to do with the IMSA rules in the seventies and eighties; the IMSA classes were unique to it. The closest analogies were some FIA classes but they were no where near identical which is why there was a special class of IMSA cars at LeMans, and for FIA classes at soime US races.

The ACO was a regional affair controlling what type of race LeMans was, which is why at times it has been an international outlaw race.

WIth the collapse of the order of road racing in the nineties, the ACO thinks the world revolves around it and LeMans and Panoz was stupid enough to kiss butt.

Bob

[tannat]

THe ACO had zero to do with the IMSA rules in the seventies and eighties; the IMSA classes were unique to it. The closest analogies were some FIA classes but they were no where near identical which is why there was a special class of IMSA cars at LeMans, and for FIA classes at soime US races.



I meant FIA, not ACO.

But what should be changed? Fans go to ALMS races because they want to see the same cars that compete at the 24 hours.

[Bob Riebe]

I meant FIA, not ACO.

But what should be changed? Fans go to ALMS races because they want to see the same cars that compete at the 24 hours.

What gives you, or anyone, outside of Danny Panoz, that idea.

What got Chevy back in the IMSA was Dodge was getting all the headlines at Daytona.
Daytona is gone, and for most people in the US, LeMans is either that track with the long fast straight (also gone) or where Ford stomped on Ferrari; with some remembering it as the place that Porsche became a road racing power, also stomping Ferrari.

People do remember IMSA for Porsche verses Chevy, especially Greenwood and Shafer, and later Porshce verses Ford & Chevy in GTP, in the original GT glory years, but connection to LeMans, only in the minds of Panoz and the ACO.

[jslone]

Until something happens we can only speculate.I would love to see the series become 2 divisions,the prototypes and gt cars,how does the drivers of Vette and Audi feel when they compete against each other all the time?

[trumperZ06]

;) We all know by now that Aston Martin was sold by Ford to a group of investors, one of whom is Sinders.

John Sinders was interviewed and said...

"Sports car racing at Aston Martin is critically important. One of the top things on my personal list is to bring Aston back to the American Le Mans Series" .

Sinders supported Aston Martin's entry in ALMS in 2006.

Looks like we can anticipate Aston Martin's return to ALMS, shortly !!!

[BrentJackson]

I read somewhere that the Aston Martins will be back at Detroit or Mosport. The sooner the better guys.

And what might help is the ALMS taking over their own rules as Bob says, but keeping them close to the ACO regulations so teams CAN cross the pond to run at Le Mans.

[grassrootsracer]

From both Planetlemans.com (http://www.planetlemans.com/cmsv2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2660&Itemid=2) and The-Paddock.net (http://www.the-paddock.net/content/view/241506/49/), it's reported that Ron Fellows and Andy Pilgrim will be running a third C6.R at Mosport. There's no entry list up for that race, so we can't confirm the Astons. (I'm not holding my breath) But maybe we'll be lucky enough to see the Astons again at Mosport too (maybe Detroit..from rumors?), for at least one decent GT1 race of the season. Too bad this appears to merely be a one off deal for Corvette. That doesn't seem to say much for whether they're staying or switching to another class/series. :dozey:

[racefanfromnj]

The unfortunate thing is sports car racing costs a lot of money .No way around that. I can only imagine what Audi has invested over the long term into the R8 R10s. With that said NASCAR has for its own reasons gotten it figured out how to get the sponsors on the cars and get the people buying into it. It bores me to tears in my own opinion.There just isnt a simple answer to it over here. Getting away from ACO specs might help. But will sports car racing ever scratch the surface of what NASCAR draws not likely. just my 2 cents worth ,good day

[GTTex]

This still means something to the marketeers of the automotive manufacturers (aka factory support).

Rule #1: $120000 cars don't get beat by $60000 cars.

Rule #2: There must be a rivalry or contender. Chevy vs. Ford. BMW vs. M-B. Toyota vs. Honda. Puegot TDI vs. Audi TDI. There are all sorts.

Fact: Dodge announced GT2 Viper test run.
Fact: Blue Devil (2009 Z06 ~ $100000 Vette) Project

You will probably see one class with parity (Grand AM/Nascar) and continue to try to attract more American makes and bring more European money (Volkwagen/Audi/Porsche/Ferrari) or whatever European make wanting a larger market share of US. Honda will want to project new NSX. Nissan bringing GTR. Audi bringing R8.

Merrell

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think they may have to go to 2 classes, but until ACO see's that, the ALMS has a problem. They have built a pretty good marketing plan based on that they run the same cars LeMans does. Unlike Bob, I think this plan has worked to an extent, but they have to tell ACO to maybe streamline things or go their own way. I do know this much. To all those car makers who are chicken of taking on the Vette's, shame on you. Shame on not trying to beat Audi and using the ALMS as the testing and proving ground. International Sportscar racing used to rival f1 for popularity, and could again if only car makers would realize the value of a good battle in sportscar vs blowing 100's of millions of dollars down a black hole to be 10th in the points in f1. Look no further than Toyota.....and Ford's abortive attempts through Stewart and Jaguar to have success in f1.

There is nothing wrong with ALMS except the top class of Prototypes and GT's are too thin. It is time to look at streamlining, and letting the chips fall where they may. You cannot take P1 seriously with only 2 cars, although at least they race with the LMP2's and lose. No one is touching the Vette's in GT2, and that is a HUGE issue......

[Hoss Ghoul]

This still means something to the marketeers of the automotive manufacturers (aka factory support).

Rule #1: $120000 cars don't get beat by $60000 cars.

Merrell


Why not? In real life a 70K Corvette Z06 would walk all over its Aston Martin counterpart. Hell, its faster than a 911 Turbo, and Ferrari F430 too!

[maylego]

Since that is a bit idealized, I'd rather see Corvette/Pratt & Miller move to GT2 than completely leave the ALMS altogether. I can't imagine an American racing series without a staple American sports car.

PTG and new-to-ALMS Robertson Racing have Panoz Esperate GTLMs. I think Corvette Racing and Pratt & Miller should move to GT2 and sell customer cars.

[maylego]

The rule changes were mostly in favor of Aston Martin and they were still beaten. Everyone fled GT1 and isn't coming back because of Corvette's dominance.

I'm still in agreement with Penske, sports car racing should have 2 clases. Prototypes and and GT class somewhere between the current GT1 and GT2 classes....look at the size of the fields in Grand Am for an example of this. Given the cars and regs are a bit different, but the 2 class system is a success over there.

Terry Borcheller told me in an email that the owner of Acemco Motorsports spent $5 million in 2005 on his Saleen S7R program.

The tube-frame 'GT' cars in Grand-Am cost less to repair than real GT cars.

The LMP2 class is designed for PRIVATEERS, not factory-backed Penske Racing.

"The LM P2 and GT2 categories are reserved mainly for private teams and must have performances inferior to those in LM P1 and LM GT1."

http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans/actu/2006-10-19_NC_1201_gb.html

GT1 might die before the end of 2010, imo.

Prodrive and Aston Martin Racing have a five year deal with the DBR9 (2005-2009).

Not everyone has fled GT1:

http://www.the-paddock.net/content/view/241931/49/

[maylego]

The unfortunate thing is sports car racing costs a lot of money .No way around that. I can only imagine what Audi has invested over the long term into the R8 R10s. With that said NASCAR has for its own reasons gotten it figured out how to get the sponsors on the cars and get the people buying into it. It bores me to tears in my own opinion.There just isnt a simple answer to it over here. Getting away from ACO specs might help. But will sports car racing ever scratch the surface of what NASCAR draws not likely. just my 2 cents worth ,good day

Autocon Motorsports is currently the smallest team in ALMS. They have a Creation CA06/H with a 5.0 liter Judd V-10 with Dunlop tires.

http://www.autoconmotorsports.com/

http://www.creationsport.co.uk/

"It is said that Audi's factory-backed R10 program - which extends to the 24 Hours of Le Mans - has an annual budget of $15 million. Lewis' San Diego-based Autocon Motorsports has a budget of $1.2 million."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20070419-9999-1s19motors.html

NASCAR just sucks the air out of the room. I'm glad Danica hasn't switched to NASCAR.

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/28732/

I have recently seen a benefit of sponsoring the ALMS. My dad recently bought high performance Michelin tires for his sedan instead of Continentals as the former supports sports car racing. He has bought nice Continentals before though.

[maylego]

LMS GT1 isn't that much better than ALMS GT1. Just some 7 cars. Take a look at FIA GT: 15 GT1s!

The MC12 isn't ACO legal. It is too wide. Nine GT1 cars will be at the 1,000 km of Spa this weekend.

Corvette Racing should be in GT2. A team from Denmark, Markland Racing, races a modified Z06 in the GT2 class of the Le Mans Series with Dunlop tires.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/3186/Chevrolet-C6-Corvette-Z06-GT2.html

http://www.markland-racing.eu/