Miguel Gomes

[LessThanSte]

OK ive just come across something rather spectacular.

With the help of Thierry Haenel who did a few races in the pickups in 2005, Miguel Gomes has just completed, and was fast in, the rookie training.

Nothing too special there but, the background on Miguel is far more interesting because Miguel has spend the last few years racing in various online sim racing leagues, including the popular NRTL and PRS leagues. He's currently a member of vMax Sim Racing and is well known as being a very good short track driver.

Its worth pointing out that a number of members of this forum, me included, are members of V8 Thunder, a series that had stickers on various cars in seasons gone by, which truly means the crossover between Simulation and Reality has been completed.

So i, and many members of the online community, look forward to Miguel joining the SCSA ranks and mixing it with the big boys.

You can read a bit more about it here;

http://www.ntrl.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=588

:)

[Lauren-69xx]

Its a computer game!!! it aint exactly real is it? any1 can go round a few laps on a computer screen.

[LessThanSte]

Um, firstly, i'd like to see you do it!

Secondly, he's joining the SCSA, as in, the REAL LIFE series as a new driver, the online racing stuff is what makes this interesting, as a lot of people know him pretty well

That, is a good thing!

[Old Stock Nut]

Its a computer game!!! it aint exactly real is it? any1 can go round a few laps on a computer screen.

Maybe the cost is less and the bruises less painful, but it is pretty real when you are doing it!! - The concentration and hard work is not much different. Just to show how real, I think it was either Denny Hamlin or Kyle Busch who won his first NASCAR race at Pocono after practising for ages on the sim. He made it clear that it was the sim practice that showed him exactly how to drive that odd looking triangle track. Oh - and you will often find Dale Earnhardt jnr driving on one of the sim leagues over in the States.

Try it and see if you can go round Rockingham in anything like the times the drivers manage - you might be surprised!!

[LessThanSte]

For the record, it was Denny Hamlin.

There are some photos around somewhere with the V8 Thunder logo on the cars. I think it was torquespeed who had a few logos on the rear spoiler, for instance.

We are digressing anyway!

[Lauren-69xx]

it soundsa bit geeky

[LessThanSte]

Well, you may say that and fair enough (it is a bit really), but the community is huge. Theres loads of games out there, rFactor, GTR, GTR 2, GTL, Live For Speed and the best of the lot NASCAR Racing 2003. And its getting more and more known about, with slots on ESPN amoungst others (il see if i can find the video!)

[LessThanSte]

Here they are;

ESPN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79l31B_O3Yc

Wind Tunnel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBG8_MxrWT4

Theres a few more out there too i think!

[Tser]

Maybe the cost is less and the bruises less painful, but it is pretty real when you are doing it!! - The concentration and hard work is not much different.

If you haven't actually raced outside of dreamworld how would you know if it is the same?

[Chigley]

If you haven't actually raced outside of dreamworld how would you know if it is the same?

Careful Tser, :confused:

Have you researched OSN's background so that you know exactly what and who you are talking about, or are you having a dig just for the sake of it! :down:

[just_smile99]

I used to race online, but i have to get a new car designed before i can go back, trust me its not easy...the amount of crashes i had, fantastic crashes at that, but it was still really hard, and i was concentrating.

X

[Tser]

Careful Tser, :confused:

Have you researched OSN's background so that you know exactly what and who you are talking about, or are you having a dig just for the sake of it! :down:


Ok chiggers, I don't know who OSN is so maybe he has raced extensively. No matter, racing on the PC is about as similar to racing on the track as driving on the road is. Ie, it isn't!

[Chigley]

No matter, racing on the PC is about as similar to racing on the track as driving on the road is. Ie, it isn't!

And how do RAF, Navy, Army, Civilian pilots learn to fly, practice and convert to different aircraft types? By using a big PC called a Simulator. Same thing, different scale. :)

[Tser]

Almost. Different thing, different scale.

[darknessrock]

Did you not see the TV thing a while back where they let a guy who was very good on microsofts' flight sim take a cessna to the air? He did a damn good job, using only what he'd learnt from "playing pc games". Mind you, the best I've done with that simulator is land a 737 on Brighton beach!

[Tser]

Or the Faking It where the d*ckhead who was really, really good on the PC simulation game couldn't drive on the track to save his life - as it is totally different. Racing comes from what you feel in the seat of your pants, driving a bus in the sky doesn't!

[LessThanSte]

You, my friend, have about as much subject knowledge, it appears, as my dead pet goldfish.

Please, if you havnt actually got a clue what your talking about (which, quite clearly, you havnt), stay out of the conversation.

[Tser]

You, my friend, have about as much subject knowledge, it appears, as my dead pet goldfish.

Please, if you havnt actually got a clue what your talking about (which, quite clearly, you havnt), stay out of the conversation.

Sorry to have clearly offended!

Done a lot of real racing have you? To tell me I don't know the subject matter. Thought not.

[Abo]

Contender for thread of the week, this. Up there with my Richard Petty post in the NASCAR forum...

[LessThanSte]

Ive been racing karts for the last 5 or 6 years, that good enough.

Whilst i agree that a simulation alone is not enough to make someone a good racing driver, the skills learnt in sim racing can be put to good use in real racing situation. The reactions, patience, overtaking, strategy and even as far as setups can all be learnt transferred from games to real life.

I suppose you havnt watched the above videos, have you? If you had you may see that many real racing drivers swear by computer games, even the crappy console versions available, as they all get you used a racing environment.

The big difference between real life and sim though is that 'im not going to get hurt' factor. Theres nothing we can do about that, short of having a guy with a hammer standing next to you when your racing. That is where real racers have the edge, and why as a learning tool for new tracks sim racing is so good.

Denny Hamlin for instance, as mentioned above, practiced for hours and hours and hours around Pocono, arguably NASCAR's most difficult track, before the races last year. He then turned up and dominated both races as a rookie and credited it solely to racing games (NR2003, as it happens!).

Im not saying for a minute that i could jump into a V8 Stockcar and go quickly, but i would have an appreciation of racing lines, what changes to the cars setup will do to the car, how to race around people etc that would significantly shorten my learning curve.

If your going to disagree with this post then feel free, but it will prove once and for all your talking absolutel nonsense!

[Tser]

Whatever. Go an race any form of car and come and tell me again, eh.

Set up - can help you understand what does what I spose.

Main difference is in racing you use feel. With any PC you have none.

[LessThanSte]

But racing isnt all about feel. Yes to go quick you need to have a feel for the car, but having a feel for the car wont help you pass someone, or get round a track you dont know, and just being able to feel the car doesnt make you quick, your also using visual and audio clues to figure out exactly whats going on and they are what are given to us through the games. Plus there are force feedback wheels translate some of the feel of the road to the steering wheel, making it significantly more realistic.

Im not saying for a minute that they are exactly alike, far from it (though the way things are going, who knows!).

What you seem to be is one of these people who has an opinion and simply will not be swayed by anything that anyone says, whether what they say makes sense or not!

[Tser]

What you seem to be is one of these people who has an opinion and simply will not be swayed by anything that anyone says, whether what they say makes sense or not!

Or maybe with my experience I know what I'm saying to be true! Karts aren't cars and have a totally different style.

[LessThanSte]

So what is your experience then?

Yes, karts have a different feel to cars but the same principals apply. As it happens, im yet to see a decent kart racing mod because of the lack of feel, but thats something that can be made up for in car sims.

Whatever, i can quite clearly see that your not going to be swayed, so il just go on the premise that you are absolutely no use talking to.

[Chigley]

Given that Tser is an incredibly knowledgeable unchallengeable and unswaying guru of misguided self belief :rolleyes: can we bring this thread back onto to subject of the thread and give all the "feel, PC, sims, realism and jibing" a holiday in a very remote inaccessible spot in the outer galaxy. :(

[Tser]

Given that Tser is an incredibly knowledgeable unchallengeable and unswaying guru of misguided self belief(


My oponion of you almost went up then.

[LessThanSte]

Good call. This wasnt meant to be about Sim Racing, more so about a driver who's competing in the SCSA this season who happens to be an avid sim racer, and good for him too. Personally, i cant wait to see him on track :)

[Miguel Gomes]

Like I posted before in Portugal I competed in kart racing for some years (the 100cc 2 stroke engines) and that was the only thing taken in consideration for letting me enter the rookie tests (the "sim" experience doesn't count, the only thing taken in consideration is real racing experience).

Any kind of real racing experience is different from racing an ascar in rookingham, whether its karting, racing in GT's, racing short ovals or doing rally (to mention the diferent kinds of real racing experience the drivers present had) that's why the rookie tests are mandatory and so much important to enter this series and after you get in your racing experience won't help must if you don't pass the necessary tests. And you must do good enough in each of the tests before they will let you advance to the next one.

You can ask all of the drivers that were there in the rookie tests and they will tell you how diferent this experience is from the real racing experience they had done before. The first thing the coaches say is "forget everything you did before" because you really have to drive diferent in this cars. Being smoth is the key.

Of course "sim" racing is much diferent from "real" racing, you don't have yet the same feel of speed and forces in your body in a computer that you have in a real race car but I personally think that the "sim" experience helped me to develop the necessary smoth driving needed for racing in an ascar, while karting helped me to adapt better to the forces and feel of speed. Like i told before the only thing that counts is real racing experience and the way you perform in the several tests during the rookie test days.

I also personally think that "sim" experience should be taken more seriously and maybe before going to the real cars drivers should prove themselfs in a simulator (like they do in aviation) because technology is so much advanced today and you can learn a lot in simulators. Once again let me make this clear this are just personal thoughts because the only thing taken in consireration in real racing experience.

[Reynard]

Please folks, keep this thread on topic and kindly refrain from slinging around the product that is exuded from the rear end of a bovine. Could you also moderate your language and opinions of each other - this is a public forum after all.

Cheers, Witty & Toby the Guard Cat

[english4ever]

[quote="LessThanSte"]Ive been racing karts for the last 5 or 6 years, that good enough.

QUOTE]


Racing around your patio on the pedal go kart your mum brought you for Christmas don't count!

I'm good on f1 on ps2 does it mean i can get straight into a f1 car and drive it?? doubt not.

[LessThanSte]

Hilarious!

[chrisn]

Interesting debate......

We have some similar experience here recently. Some of you may remember James Burnett who used to head up the Race School at Rockingham. He is now manager of the Dubai Autodrome Race & Drive Centre. The April edition of Car magazine Middle East has a feature about a challenge we held at the Dubai Autodrome recently. James was lent an Aston Martin DB9 and sent out to lap our 5.39 km GP Circuit, with our timing system set up. Meanwhile in a pit garage an 11 year old was set up with a DB9 on the same circuit on the GTR2 game on a pc.

I can report that, after cooking the brakes (it was a road car) and a couple of laps showboating on Turn 12 outside the office window, James set a best time of 2:33.117. His young competitors best time was 2:22.107. James did salvage some pride back by settling down at the computer screen and setting a lap time of 2:06.433 in a virtual GT3!

What does it prove ? Probably not a lot really. Aston Martin would not fly out a full spec race car to prove the point so James was handicapped compared to the set up on the game. However the key point is that in the virtual game you trash the car into the wall or armco barriers and you get to start over, without repair bills or troubling my circuit paramedic or the local trauma centre. That has to make a difference.

James told me afterwards that the kid had about 10 offs before setting his best time. James had none - Aston Martin Middle East would not have been best pleased and nor would the Dubai Autodrome management if he had taken a similar approach to perfecting his lap. More to the point he knew that the video recordings of his offs would have been held by my guys in Race Control ........!!

I do not doubt that virtual racing can help drivers learn a circuit. However it is no substitute for ARDS tests, Rookie Training and real on track experience. Anybody who suggests otherwise can have my Clerk of the Course licence - as I hold a duty of care to other racers, the marshals and the general public when people are out on track I would not be comfortable if people were qualifying to race on a virtual basis alone.

My god - it would be like the roads of Dubai out there!

Chris

[Tser]

Careful CN, Lessthanste will be here shortly to tell you that you don't know anything about running a circuit that could not have been learnt better, easier, quicker, cheaper and more realistically through CircuitManagementSim 2.0!

[Nick Brad]

Can we please have a close on this thread as what started out as talking about an amazingly talented driver who impressed me greatly when doing his rookie test, has degenerated into a mud slinging contest despite requests to keep to the original subject matter.

After all, I'd hate for Toby to start shredding the sofa in anger after reading this thread has become. ;)

[R3ROK]

Quite right Nick....and I was just about to say how realistic my sega megadrive was......or my spectrum+2.... ;)

[Tser]

My posts certainly bear no reflection on Senor Gomes at all, simply an opinion of the validity of games/simulations for teaching you how to drive race cars.

[Henry Cutts]

Or maybe with my experience I know what I'm saying to be true! Karts aren't cars and have a totally different style.

I think you will find some Karts you need to drive smoothly although you would drive more aggressively than a stock car. With the engine you have to be very smooth, making no big throttle movements which as far as i know seem to be fairly similar style to SCSA, If anyone would like to loan me a car to make a fair comparison i would be happy to drive (obviously it would be cheaper to get a SCSA driver in a Kart but that’s no fun for me!)

Computer games are a good tool for learning circuits etc. as has been confirmed by drivers from F1 to Nascar, If its good enough to train people to fly millions of pounds worth of plane with hundreds of lives at stake I think we can all agree it is (or can be in the future) a good training tool for drivers.

[Nick Brad]

Which if done in a constructive manner, would have made for an interesting seperate thread imo. However, this thread was about Miguel and I feel it is greatly unfair to hijack this thread for an almost unrelated subject when Miguel has even admitted himself that his online experience had no relevance when applying/taking his rookie test, merely that he felt his sim experience helped him gain knowledge of the circuit and how to handle the extra size/weight of the SCSA cars.

[Reynard]

Can we please have a close on this thread as what started out as talking about an amazingly talented driver who impressed me greatly when doing his rookie test, has degenerated into a mud slinging contest despite requests to keep to the original subject matter.

After all, I'd hate for Toby to start shredding the sofa in anger after reading this thread has become. ;)

As you can see, Toby has become extremely cross about the assorted meanderings of this thread. He is therefore kindly requesting you all, as I am, to please keep it on topic.

[savage86]

I think what Miguel has done is a fantastic achievement, especially as he has only driving Karts before and Nascar Racing 2003. He Steps into a real Ascar with a massive v8 engine and heavy body and passes the rookie test.

I think people are being extremely harsh they obviously need to try some of these games to see how realistic they are. I have raced with several real racing drivers on the game. Rick Impey (he raced in trucks back in 2004)

Thierry has already been mentioned and Ali Topley he raced legends he was a team mate of time. They all seemed to think that the differences were not that big between the game and real life.

Further more I know for a fact an SCSA racing team tested a setup they had thought up on the game, took it to the real life Rockingham the weekend after and the car behaviour and tyre temperatures and wear were nearly exactly the same.

A driver needs a real racing drivers skill to be good at the game, however what might hold them back is racing real cars may scare them too much to drive as the car as well as they would in the virtual world.