Did Gordon demean Dale Sr.'s legacy?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ok, Jeff ties Dale Sr. with 76 wins at Phoenix. I don't like Jeff that much but I don't hate the guy either. That said, I thought it was a classy thing for him to mention how he admired Sr. and how he looked up to him, and how he wanted to honor Dale with the flag out the window.

Obviously some people at Phoenix didn't get the memo Jeff looked up to ole 3 for they were tossing beer cans (with beer still in them..what a waste!) at Jeff. It wasn't shown on TV, but it was mentioned on the post race coverage and on Wind Tunnel with Dave DeSpain last night.

I would love to know why anyone thinks this makes any sense. AS much as I don't have a lot of time for Jeff, I think he was sincere on this one, and Jr. went over and congratulated Jeff for his tribute to his dad. I cant get why Sr.'s fans cant grow up on this one.....someone clue me in, are they all nuts or is it a few idiots? I presume the latter...

[RaceFanStan]

I suppose sometimes old habits die hard, for years some fans have hated Jeff Gordon ...
it doesn't matter what Jeff Gordon does, some people are going to hate him ...
Jeff Gordon tied Dale Earnhardt's win record & showed a lot of class by paying homage to the Intimidator ...
I thought it was great that Jeff Gordon carried the 3 flag around the track & said the things he did ...
I miss the Intimidator & I am pleased to know that some of his competitors do too.

I salute Jeff Gordon for showing a lot of class & respecting the 7-time Champion Dale Earnhardt. :D :up:

[Sparky1329]

I can't add anything to what Stan said. IMHO Jeff showed a lot of respect for Dale by flying the #3 flag as a tribute. Very classy. :up:

[jslone]

Jeff did the right thing,it does not matter who it is,if he reaches Richards mark,well he do the same?

[Lee Roy]

I salute Jeff Gordon for showing a lot of class & respecting the 7-time Champion Dale Earnhardt. :D :up:

Well said, Stan.

[Alexamateo]

Jeff did the right thing,it does not matter who it is,if he reaches Richards mark,well he do the same?

Richard's mark is out of reach this day and age. I would like to see him break the 100 win mark and possibly take second from Pearson (105 wins)

[Lee Roy]

Richard Petty (200)
David Pearson (105)
Bobby Allison (84 - Although, it may be 85 now due to NASCAR crediting him with a win from years ago)
Darrell Waltrip (84)
Cale Yarborough (83)
Dale Earnhardt (76)
Jeff Gordon (76)

Now, Jeff being in such company is an awesome achievement, but just to put it a little more in perspective:

Active Drivers:

Bill Elliott (44)
Mark Martin (35)
Dale Jarrett (32)
Tony Stewart (29)
Jimmy Johnson (26)

It's going to be a long time before we ever see a driver accomplish what Jeff Gordon has . . . . and he's still going. 10 more wins and he's the third winningest driver in NASCAR.

[tassiedevilAB]

I have a feeling that bigE's fans thought that Jeffy poo carrying the no. 3 flag around the oval after equalling his record, just broke the camels back for them, remember they are a hardy lot that revered the Intimidator for what it was worth!

And I CAN NOT STAND JEFFY POO! but that is OMO. OR IS IT!

[Lee Roy]

Some Dale Sr. fans can't stand Jeff Gordon because he came in as a kid and gave Dale Sr. all he could handle. Remember, after Jeff Gordon won his championship, Dale Sr. never won a championship again.

It did show a lot of class for Jeff to pay tribute to Dale Sr. Too bad that so many of the Dale Sr. fans at Phoenix had to show how they had no class at all. Dale Sr. would have been ashamed that those can and bottle throwing losers called themselves fans of his.

[muggle not]

Anyone that throws cans or bottles at a race is indeed classless.

Anyone that does not recognize Jeff Gordon's talent is blind. (or maybe 1 pickel short of a barrel) :)

[Sparky1329]

I have a feeling that bigE's fans thought that Jeffy poo carrying the no. 3 flag around the oval after equalling his record, just broke the camels back for them, remember they are a hardy lot that revered the Intimidator for what it was worth!

And I CAN NOT STAND JEFFY POO! but that is OMO. OR IS IT!

I'd never be mistaken for a Jeff Gordon fan. I will always consider myself to be a Dale Earnhardt fan. My computer room is lined with all the Dale Earnhardt posters I could make room for as evidence of that fact. Maybe it's a mentality thing. Those fans who think Jeff Gordon was being disrespectful are probably the type of fans who throw cans and bottles on the race track. In other words classless. JMHO

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think the Pearson number is in reach...but past that, I highly doubt Jeff has that much time left to even get close. Just the same, an incredible accomplishment when you factor in no one else right now is close, and Jeff isn't exactly ready to retire, he is only in his mid 30's...

[BobbyC]

The real record to go after is Waltrip's 84 because of the distinctive nature of his 84 wins, versus Petty (200), Pearson (105), and Allison's (84) wins.

Prior to 1971, the schedule in NASCAR would be run on various tracks, various surfaces, and many times per week. There could be 60 races on a schedule, with races run 2-3 times per week, with weekday and weekend races, and scheduled race distances being considerably shorter than 150 miles. These were 100-mile races counted as Grand National races in that time.

Winston changed NASCAR's schedule by adopting a rule prohibiting races under 250 miles from having championship status, and going exclusively to weekend races with the Firecracker as an exception. In 1975, after the energy crisis, the rule was eliminated but races were long-distance races, and from 1989 until 1997, Infineon was 186 miles (300 km). The shortest race on the schedule currently is Infineon at 218 miles. This guaranteed all races a minimum 125 miles.

Petty and Allison won scheduled 60-mile races at Islip (NY) Speedway, while Pearson and Yarborough both won 100-mile races.

Of the three contemporary drivers on the list, Earnhardt's shortest win was Infineon 1995 (187.5 miles). Waltrip's shortest win was Richmond (216 miles). Gordon's shortest win is Bristol 1996 (182 miles, rain). All of Gordon's and Waltrip's wins came in races scheduled for more than 200 miles. Earnhardt has one under 200 miles.

(NOTE: Kyle Petty in 1992 won the shortest "modern era" race, at 125 miles, when Watkins Glen was rained out just after halfway in the 220.5 mile race.)

[Lee Roy]

Cool stats Bobby, thanks.

You're right, most of Petty and Pearson's wins came in a different time and under somewhat different circumstances. But there's little doubt that if their "time" had been in the "modern era", they would still be the ones with the top records.

[MD24]

"Congratulations to Jeff," Junior said. "He's a class act and I'm happy for him.
"I ran over to Victory Lane to shake his hand and let him know. I know a lot of fans of my dad's aren't the biggest Jeff Gordon fans, but he and my dad were business partners on a lot of things and worked together a lot more than most people realize."

[Jonesi]

Richard Petty (200)
David Pearson (105)
Bobby Allison (84 - Although, it may be 85 now due to NASCAR crediting him with a win from years ago)
Darrell Waltrip (84)
Cale Yarborough (83)
Dale Earnhardt (76)
Jeff Gordon (76)


No, officially Nascar still won't acknowledge #85 won in a Grand Am car (funny how that name reappeared;-)

[harvick#1]

Anyone that does not recognize Jeff Gordon's talent is blind. (or maybe 1 pickel short of a barrel) :)

I guess I'm blind :p :

I think the numbes don't compare though, If Earnhardt was in Hendrick equipment, he'd have over 100 victories easily. RC did a great job with equipment, but Hendrick has done so much more than anyone else had.

I was mad Gordon won the race, but he did a nice tribute for the "Big E".

but alot of people were pisted because it should've been a VT flag

[muggle not]

Good stats by BobbyC. I will add a little to them:

Richard Petty.............200 wins............1184 races

David Pearson............105 wins..............574 races

Bobby Allison...............85 wins..............718 races

Darrell Waltrip..............85 wins..............809 races

Dale Earnhardt.............76 wins..............676 races

Jeff Gordon..................76 wins.............481 races

[Jonesi]

Good stats by BobbyC. I will add a little to them:

Richard Petty.............200 wins............1184 races

David Pearson............105 wins..............574 races

Bobby Allison...............85 wins..............718 races

Darrell Waltrip..............85 wins..............809 races

Dale Earnhardt.............76 wins..............676 races

Jeff Gordon..................76 wins.............481 races

Where's Cale? WHAT DID YOU DO WITH CALE!!! :dozey:

[oldhippie]

so sad that 83 wins by Cale Yarborough dont count
Bobby Allison and Darrell Waltrip have 84 wins each according to my book

when was the records changed?
who did it?
i demand a recount!

[muggle not]

Ok, i guess some of you do read my posts :)

Good stats by BobbyC. I will add a little to them:

Richard Petty.............200 wins............1184 races

David Pearson............105 wins..............574 races

Bobby Allison...............84 wins..............718 races (regardless if some give him 85 wins)

Darrell Waltrip..............84 wins..............809 races

Cale Yarborough...........83 wins..............560 races

Dale Earnhardt.............76 wins..............676 races

Jeff Gordon..................76 wins.............481 races

[Alexamateo]

Cale Yarborough 83 wins 559 Starts

On August 6, 1971 Bobby Allison won at Bowman-Gray Stadium in Winston-Salem, NC driving a Ford Mustang Grand-Am car in a "mixed" race.

He was not credited with a win because it was a Grand-AM car, but interestingly enough, the win counts in Fords brand total.

Historian Greg Fielden believes it should count, because other drivers are credited with starts even though they were in Grand Am cars. It also might have reflected the time. Ray Elder won the Winston Western 500 in 1971, but was not credited with a Cup victory until 1976 because he was not an official Winston Cup driver, he was competing for Winston West points.

Also that year, Tiny Lund won two races that year in Camaros that are counted in Chevrolet totals, but not official wins.

The feeling now is that the man who won the race is the winner, therefore Bobby Allison has 85 wins not 84, and Tiny Lund has 5 not 3.

[Lee Roy]

I guess I'm blind :p :

I think the numbes don't compare though, If Earnhardt was in Hendrick equipment, he'd have over 100 victories easily. RC did a great job with equipment, but Hendrick has done so much more than anyone else had.


How many championships did Hendrick have before Jeff Gordon won his first?


Thanks . . . that's what I thought.

Next pathetic excuse.

[harvick#1]

I'm talking about when Jeff was in the car, from 95 on, they have dominated while nearly every team struggled to keep up with them. Ray Evernham also helped

[Lee Roy]

You mean when Dale Earnhardt Sr. was driving for a team that had 6 championships?

[jslone]

Richard's mark is out of reach this day and age. I would like to see him break the 100 win mark and possibly take second from Pearson (105 wins)
Why do you say that,they are one of the best teams in NAscar,that says a lot,in addition to being one of the truly best drivers in the world.

[Jonesi]

Cale Yarborough 83 wins 559 Starts

On August 6, 1971 Bobby Allison won at Bowman-Gray Stadium in Winston-Salem, NC driving a Ford Mustang Grand-Am car in a "mixed" race.

He was not credited with a win because it was a Grand-AM car, but interestingly enough, the win counts in Fords brand total.

Historian Greg Fielden believes it should count, because other drivers are credited with starts even though they were in Grand Am cars. It also might have reflected the time. Ray Elder won the Winston Western 500 in 1971, but was not credited with a Cup victory until 1976 because he was not an official Winston Cup driver, he was competing for Winston West points.

Also that year, Tiny Lund won two races that year in Camaros that are counted in Chevrolet totals, but not official wins.

The feeling now is that the man who won the race is the winner, therefore Bobby Allison has 85 wins not 84, and Tiny Lund has 5 not 3.
The official press guide only gives Lund 2 wins.
I agree if someone wins a race (with multiple classes) overall in a lesser car they should be credited with the win.

[Alexamateo]

Why do you say that,they are one of the best teams in NAscar,that says a lot,in addition to being one of the truly best drivers in the world.

I agree, he is with a great team and a great driver, but to catch Richard Petty for wins, NASCAR would have to return to 55-60 races a year.

Before this year he had 75 wins in 14 years, that's 5.35 wins per year, if we throw out his rookie year, he averages 5.76 wins per year. At his career average, to get 125 more wins he would have to race 21 more years or until he was 55. Even at his career best season when he got 13 wins, he would have to have 10 more seasons like that, and the competition now is too stiff for that.

No, 100 wins, and possibly 106 wins for second is a reasonable goal, but Richard Petty's record is untouchable.

[Alexamateo]

The official press guide only gives Lund 2 wins.
I agree if someone wins a race (with multiple classes) overall in a lesser car they should be credited with the win.

Well he should have three because they are not in dispute.

1963 Daytona 500
1965 Columbia, SC
1966 Beltsville, MD

disputed
1971 Hickory, NC
1971 North Wilkesboro

There is some precedent, Gwyn Staley won at Langhorne in 1957, technically driving a convertible in another "mixed" race, but he was credited for a win although convertibles were a seperate division.

[Al E]

Jeff did the right thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dwboogityfan]

I am usually the first to criticise 'Cry-Baby' Jeff for anything. However, I think this was a really classy gesture which shows just how much he respected The Intimidator.
I'm sure Dale was looking down with a grin on his face thinking Jeff would have had to wait a little longer if he was still around.
Without sounding nasty sometimes some Earnhardt 'fans' (I refuse to classify someone who throws beer cans at a car a fan of the sport) can be stupid - the people criticising Jeff for this are probably the same ones who still blame Sterling Marlin for his death.

[e2mtt]

I don't deny that Jeff Gordon is a good driver, but he also entered the sport at just the right time. He was the first higly-talented young driver to get a ride in a well-financed multi-car team with a full complement of engineers, wind tunnels, & computers.

He was competing against a bunch of single-car teams with lots of old school traditions.

[harvick#1]

thats the sort of thing right now with Lewis Hamilton, everyone is saying hes the greatest, but he starts his first year in a Mclaren, not a Aguri, or Toro Rosso, but a car that can easily win races and championships

[e2mtt]

thats the sort of thing right now with Lewis Hamilton, everyone is saying hes the greatest, but he starts his first year in a Mclaren, not a Aguri, or Toro Rosso, but a car that can easily win races and championships

True, but watch the GP2 highlights, or his first starts this year. The man is awesome.

[jslone]

True, but watch the GP2 highlights, or his first starts this year. The man is awesome.

In F1,there is a marked difference in cars of the lesser teirs then in Nascar,in Nascar its not as bad.

[Lee Roy]

thats the sort of thing right now with Lewis Hamilton, everyone is saying hes the greatest, but he starts his first year in a Mclaren, . . . .

Hey, he's getting the job done. Being in one of the best cars is only half the battle, you have to be able to "execute", too.

Hey, Lewis has shown his 2 time and defending world champion team mate the way to the checkered flag.

[Alexamateo]

I don't know how I ended up on the F1 board ;) :D , but I will add this. He may drive for the best team, have the best car etc. but he wasn't hired off the street. He put himself in the position to be hired, and then he executed.

Whether you are Jeff Gordon, Lewis Hamilton, or Damon Hill (sorry, had to throw him in here) these things don't drive themselves.

[jslone]

Lets see how Lewis does on a lesser funded team in F1,say either Honda or Toyota or others,what he has done is amazing but until he wins a race or a championship on this level,he is a good driver on a good team.

[Abo]

Wonder if it's worth looking at the win rate too:

Petty: won 1 in 5.9 races
Pearson: won 1 in 5.5
Allison: won 1 in 8.5
Walltrip: won 1 in 9.6
Yarborough: won 1 in 6.7
Earnhardt: won 1 in 8.9
Gordon: won 1 in 6.3

Dunno if it proves anything

[colinspooky]

Jeff did the right thing

Morons who throw things at anyone need to be banned from all tracks for life. :mad:


And yes I realise enforcing that and finding the real culprits is nigh on impossible.

[jslone]

If Jeffy wins the race on Sunday,I wonder what the fans well throw then,remember the crap in 04 when he beat Jr was thrown at him.

[24thunder]

I agree, he is with a great team and a great driver, but to catch Richard Petty for wins, NASCAR would have to return to 55-60 races a year.

Before this year he had 75 wins in 14 years, that's 5.35 wins per year, if we throw out his rookie year, he averages 5.76 wins per year. At his career average, to get 125 more wins he would have to race 21 more years or until he was 55. Even at his career best season when he got 13 wins, he would have to have 10 more seasons like that, and the competition now is too stiff for that.

No, 100 wins, and possibly 106 wins for second is a reasonable goal, but Richard Petty's record is untouchable.


Here is what Jeff Gorodn had to say regarding possibly passing David Pearson,and other illustrious drivers,on the all-time win list and also looks to his future and how long his career might last at the Cup level.
Follow link below:
http://www.2win.net/wc/07/race/ts/cfq.html

[24thunder]

Here is what Jeff Gordon had to say regarding possibly passing David Pearson,and other illustrious drivers,on the all-time win list and also looks to his future and how long his career might last at the Cup level.
Follow link below:
http://www.race2win.net/wc/07/race/ts/cfq.html

[djparky]

Jeff Gordon has always been a class act, he's always been my fav driver, mainly because when I first watched NASCAR on Sky Sports back in the early 90's he was the young kid coming to challenge the established stars- although I now understand the legacy of Dale Snr and the other "good ole boys" it didn't mean all that much to me at the time

so I had no problem with Gordon running around with the No3 flag- showed respect for a former champion, shame some of the locals didn't see it that way

[Mark in Oshawa]

I believe Jeffy means well for sure, and he better be respectful of the "King", the "Silver Fox" and Earnhardt, because Jeff wouldn't be making the millions he does without the way those guys built this sport. That said, Jeff is a good guy that way, he knows the past, or has taken the time to learn.

That said, I cant cheer for the guy...it is just not in my DNA...lol

[nigelred5]

The thing that always gets me is Earnhart is revered for the way he drove, while Gordon is despised for driving the same way. People don't like him because he's a pretty boy, plain and simple. The guy can flat drive. My only problem is his talent was wasted in NASCAR, when he should have been winning those championships in Indycars and Formula1.

Hamilton didn't just show up at McLaren out of the blue. IIRC, he's been under contract to them since he was like 12 years old and has been developed very methodically. I've been convinced for a couple years now that he's the next truly GREAT driver of the level of a Shumacher, Senna, Prost caliber. He's cool as ice, polished, great technically, and spectacularly refined with the media.

[Lee Roy]

My only problem is his talent was wasted in NASCAR, when he should have been winning those championships in Indycars and Formula1.


I think you're the only one who thinks Gordon's talent was wasted in NASCAR.

A number of years ago, Jeff Gordon stated that if he wanted to go to Formula One, he would have been driving Formula Fords instead of Sprint Cars.

The "Indy Car" crowd didn't want Jeff Gordon. Probably because he couldn't write a big check for a seat. And look at the absolutely pathetic condition of "Indy Car" racing today (both Champ Car and the IRL). Jeff Gordon would really be sorry that he went that route now. He probably wouldn't even be in racing anymore.

[nigelred5]

I think you're the only one who thinks Gordon's talent was wasted in NASCAR.

A number of years ago, Jeff Gordon stated that if he wanted to go to Formula One, he would have been driving Formula Fords instead of Sprint Cars.

The "Indy Car" crowd didn't want Jeff Gordon. Probably because he couldn't write a big check for a seat. And look at the absolutely pathetic condition of "Indy Car" racing today (both Champ Car and the IRL). Jeff Gordon would really be sorry that he went that route now. He probably wouldn't even be in racing anymore.

I know that I am not alone in that opinion. And I have heard it from his mouth, directly in response to my personal question, He absolutely wanted to drive Indycars and F1. However as you correctly pointed out, at the time he was trying to move into Indycars, no one wanted an up and coming sprintcar driver from California by way of Indiana. I won't dispute he ended up in a good place, but it was not his first choice to be in NASCAR by any means. He's used his talent quite well, and I'm NOT one of the many that feel NASCAR doesn't require a lot of driving talent.

[nigelred5]

Talladega was also a fitting venue for breaking Earnhart's career record. Congratulations to JG.

[HoustonCartFan]

I know that I am not alone in that opinion. And I have heard it from his mouth, directly in response to my personal question, He absolutely wanted to drive Indycars and F1. However as you correctly pointed out, at the time he was trying to move into Indycars, no one wanted an up and coming sprintcar driver from California by way of Indiana. I won't dispute he ended up in a good place, but it was not his first choice to be in NASCAR by any means. He's used his talent quite well, and I'm NOT one of the many that feel NASCAR doesn't require a lot of driving talent.


It is a sad shame he never got a shot in Formula 1. I think he would have been great.

[R. Mears]

I sure hope #24 goes on to win the cup this year to make up for the one he got screwed out of the first year of nextel. His 200+ point lead don't mean squat cause it'll only be a measly 5 with 10 to go even if it's 500 by then.

[e2mtt]

I sure hope #24 goes on to win the cup this year to make up for the one he got screwed out of the first year of nextel. His 200+ point lead don't mean squat cause it'll only be a measly 5 with 10 to go even if it's 500 by then.

Actually not true. This year he gets 10 bonus points for every race he wins, at the start of the chase. (This means, as of right now, he would start the chase down 10 points to Jimmie Johnson!)

[Garry Walker]

How immature are the earnhardt fans? I watched the race yesterday and it was frankly disgusting what their behaviour was after Gordon again easily beat others. Disgraceful is a far too polite word for those stupid morons.

[Sparky1329]

How immature are the earnhardt fans? I watched the race yesterday and it was frankly disgusting what their behaviour was after Gordon again easily beat others. Disgraceful is a far too polite word for those stupid morons.

It's not just Earnhardt fans who don't like Jeff Gordon.

[e2mtt]

Y'know, I don't get what the big deal is. The fans weren't happy at all with the way the race ended, and its not like they are going to hurt a driver in a car. Let 'em chuck beer.

:-)

[R. Mears]

Y'know, I don't get what the big deal is. The fans weren't happy at all with the way the race ended, and its not like they are going to hurt a driver in a car. Let 'em chuck beer.

:-)
It's just disgraceful and unethical thats why. Does poor sportsmanship ring a bell?

[Sparky1329]

Y'know, I don't get what the big deal is. The fans weren't happy at all with the way the race ended, and its not like they are going to hurt a driver in a car. Let 'em chuck beer.

:-)


How about the cans that miss their mark and hit an innocent fan in the back of the head? How about the fact that it's barbaric and uncivilized?

[e2mtt]

I don't have a problem with them getting handcuffed and dragged away, either, they are breaking rules. I just fail to see the point of making a big deal of it. Just about every major game in any sport has hecklers, sometimes they get kicked out of the stadium. Big deal. I know if I was there, I would have felt like throwing stuff at Jeff. (As it was, I just turned off the TV, disapointed.)