What if Britain lost its GP?

[Matt Phelps]

There are rumours suggesting that Silverstone may not be hosting Grand Prix for much longer, but are there any real alternatives?

Donnington
Oulton Park
Whatever the new Welsh track is...

Are any of these truly suitable? If Silverstone goes, does the British GP?

:confused:

[Raggs]

That would be heresy! Although F1 has become Merc plus "the rest" for the past couple of years, hopes are it will return to the competitive level it should have. What next, the Italian GP, Belgium? Won't Bernie and the BRDA do something?

[Starter]

That would be heresy! Although F1 has become Merc plus "the rest" for the past couple of years, hopes are it will return to the competitive level it should have. What next, the Italian GP, Belgium? Won't Bernie and the BRDA do something?
Bernie will do something. He will continue to cash checks at the earliest opportunity.

[Rollo]

There are rumours suggesting that Silverstone may not be hosting Grand Prix for much longer, but are there any real alternatives?

Donnington
Oulton Park
Whatever the new Welsh track is...

Are any of these truly suitable? If Silverstone goes, does the British GP?

:confused:

The real alternatives are:
Donnington
Oulton Park
Croft
Rockingham
Snetterton
Thruxton
Brands Hatch
Silverstone
Circuit of Wales

All of these are technically viable because they're long enough. The question is how much of a guttersnipe Bernie is.

I hope that Bernie cancels the British and Italian GPs. Then there shall be a revolt and walkout and he'll be in charge of nothing.

[Stan Reid]

How about a London to Paris race through the Chunnel?

[Rollo]

How about a London to Paris race through the Chunnel?

That race would be in single file.

The Chunnel is two train tunnels with a service tunnel connecting them.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Eurotunnel_schema_%28empty_service%29.svg/595px-Eurotunnel_schema_%28empty_service%29.svg.png

[AndyL]

The real alternatives are:
Donnington
Oulton Park
Croft
Rockingham
Snetterton
Thruxton
Brands Hatch
Silverstone
Circuit of Wales

All of these are technically viable because they're long enough. The question is how much of a guttersnipe Bernie is.

I hope that Bernie cancels the British and Italian GPs. Then there shall be a revolt and walkout and he'll be in charge of nothing.

The length of the Circuit of Wales right now is zero so I'm not sure that meets the requirement. I don't think they're currently designing it to FIA grade 1, but since it doesn't exist yet, I guess they could do that without any problems.

Probably Donnington could be upgraded to grade 1, perhaps Thruxton and Snetterton too. Hard to imagine Oulton Park or Brands being possible though. The old 60s Snetterton could make an interesting F1 circuit.

How about Cadwell Park :eek:

With F1 and MotoGP it doesn't seem to matter too much which circuit it's awarded to; they always end up at Silverstone.

[Rollo]

The length of the Circuit of Wales right now is zero so I'm not sure that meets the requirement.

As David Coulthard proved, you could in theory hold an F1 GP in Zimbabwe on a dirt track:

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/david-coulthard-plays-in-the-texas-dirt-image-red-bull_100364187_m.jpg

Where we're going, we don't need Rhodes. :D

[Stan Reid]

As David Coulthard proved, you could in theory hold an F1 GP in Zimbabwe on a dirt track:

http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/david-coulthard-plays-in-the-texas-dirt-image-red-bull_100364187_m.jpg

Where we're going, we don't need Rhodes. :D

Ah-David needs to learn how to back it in and ride the cushion. Juan Pablo Montoya actually ran a race on dirt oval here a couple of years ago and didn't do too bad. Maybe either he or Steve Kinser could be a temp driver for that one.:rolleyes:

[Nitrodaze]

It would be a big blow for british interest but not unsual in the grand scheme of things. Bear in mind we did not have a German GP in 2014. Germany has, at least 2 historic tracks, namely Hockenhiem and the famous Nurburgring. The forces of money in F1 could easily bring this about. But there would be some inherent consequences as viewing numbers in Germany is showing.
The right holders may seem to be losing the plot, because most tracks are finding it hard to afford to put on the F1 show. Austin in struggling, the Russian track is rumored to be quietly uneasy about its future, Silverstone is barely keeping afloat. Many tracks have come and gone due to the costs of putting on the F1 show, India, Argentina etc. Hence, it is not outside the realms of possibility that a British GP ceases to be in the future calendar of F1.

[Raggs]

If Bernie et al would cease siphoning the life-blood from F1 and allow it to return to the basic motorsport, perhaps normal people could afford to attend and TV cost would return to reasonable levels. If not what will we be left with? Six Japanese GPs, three Abu Dhabi GPs and a few select, possibly alternating sites, to complete the calendar.
Why can't F1 have V8s or some standardized powerplant instead of super-hightech combos that cost fortunes to develop? Let FormulaE or some other series be the conscience of the sport and F1 to be pinnacle of driving. I'd rather see it go in the direction of tin-tops and let the best man, or woman, win on the track in equal cars. Why do you need 600 people in a factory chasing the dream at whatever cost when it could be 20-30 in total? I see why Ferrari or even McLaren might use it as a marketing strategy but what do Force India, Sauber, Marussia, etc. have to sell apart from the products of their sponsors who could continue to do so?

[Matt Phelps]

So equal cars @Raggs?

Kind of like IndyCar? Bar the option of picking your power unit (Honda or Chevrolet in this case).

[Jag_Warrior]

I see CVC as a much bigger problem than even Bernie. Hopefully they will soon sell their stake and new ownership will reinvest and work to build the sport, rather than just worrying about growing profits... at the expense of F1's future.

BTW, the rumor I read just the other day was that Jaguar-Land Rover (Tata Motors: TTM) was looking at buying Silverstone. If that happens, then hopefully the future of the race would not be in jeopardy any longer. It seems so strange that there is no German Grand Prix, no French Grand Prix and Silverstone and Monza are under threat. :(

[Matt Phelps]

What are the substitutes?

Britain: Oulton Park and Donnington are surely the only realistic contenders.
Italy: Misano, a return to Imola.
Germany: Confirmed for next year
France: Magny-Cours is surely the only option, Le Mans seems to short and tight.

[jens]

Britain losing a GP... Considering we lost the French and also German (!!) Grands Prix, nothing would surprise me any more. Another classic Italian GP is also in danger.

I guess the bright side is that motorsport in Britain survives anyway. They have lots of circuits, still lots of racing series hold races there (both cars and bikes), the facilities of many teams are located there - tradition, business and technology will not stop.

Just that local people can't spend huge amounts of £ to fill Bernie's pockets once a year any more.:)

[jens]

There are rumours suggesting that Silverstone may not be hosting Grand Prix for much longer, but are there any real alternatives?

Donnington
Oulton Park
Whatever the new Welsh track is...

Are any of these truly suitable? If Silverstone goes, does the British GP?

:confused:

In all seriousness it doesn't seem like there is a strong alternative to Silverstone. Back in 2009 there were rumours (and even contracts!) that British GP should take place in Donington in 2010, but it never happened. Brands Hatch is probably not up to F1 standards in terms of facilities, but probably also safety (?!).

[Stan Reid]

Well, they had the San Marino Grand Prix in Italy and the Swiss Grand Prix in France so I suppose you can have the British Grand Prix here at Indy.

[zako85]

F1 without the British GP is unthinkable. It's actually more unthinkable than F1 without Monaco. F1 is basically a national sport in UK, along with tennis and football, and Britain is a pretty damn big country. A lot of F1 racing is defined by Britons and factories based in Britain. 7 out of 10 current F1 team factories are based in UK. Many of their supplies are also in the UK. The dominant Mercedes engine factory is in UK. The British are driven mad by the success of another Briton who is now a three time WDC. So I don't think that Bernie, another Briton, is stupid enough to actually leave UK without a GP.

[Jag_Warrior]

F1 without the British GP is unthinkable. It's actually more unthinkable than F1 without Monaco. F1 is basically a national sport in UK, along with tennis and football, and Britain is a pretty damn big country. A lot of F1 racing is defined by Britons and factories based in Britain. 7 out of 10 current F1 team factories are based in UK. Many of their supplies are also in the UK. The dominant Mercedes engine factory is in UK. The British are driven mad by the success of another Briton who is now a three time WDC. So I don't think that Bernie, another Briton, is stupid enough to actually leave UK without a GP.

^^^This. While F1 is an international series, it (the teams and suppliers) is basically based in Britain. So to not race there would seem especially unthinkable.

[Nitrodaze]

F1 without the British GP is unthinkable. It's actually more unthinkable than F1 without Monaco. F1 is basically a national sport in UK, along with tennis and football, and Britain is a pretty damn big country. A lot of F1 racing is defined by Britons and factories based in Britain. 7 out of 10 current F1 team factories are based in UK. Many of their supplies are also in the UK. The dominant Mercedes engine factory is in UK. The British are driven mad by the success of another Briton who is now a three time WDC. So I don't think that Bernie, another Briton, is stupid enough to actually leave UK without a GP.

Nationalism has nothing to do with it buddy. it is simply business. The stakes are higher and the classic tracks are feeling the pinch of competing with state sponsored tracks flooding into F1. Mexico was damn spectacular and a huge threat to Austin. Brasil only just survived the money bags of Abu Dhabi. The German GP wobbled soon after the Austrian GP returned to the calendar. Tracks relying on fans from neighboring countries to make up for the shortfall in their countries are finding they are at risk if a close by country puts one of their tracks on the calendar. The reality of the matter is track sponsorship is becoming a state investment to drive up tourism and woo foreign investment to their country.

With the recent investment into Silverstone, it is unlikely that the British GP would drop out of the F1 Calendar, but that is by no means guaranteed. The ugly truth of the matter is, while the actual circuit of Silverstone remains one of the most challenging and exciting F1 race tracks, the facility still is behind the standard of the newer tracks. That said, Silverstone has the advantage of being one to the tracks that attain full capacity attendance compared to most tracks on the calendar.

The disadvantage of Silverstone is that the coverage of the race is mainly by the BBC which does not have advertising during the broadcast, hence offers limited revenue opportunities to the right holders. This is the juncture where the interest of the fans is in diametrical opposition to that of the right holders. We want uninterrupted race coverage, the right holders do not make money from not interrupting your viewing with commercials.

I think Silverstone is relatively safe in the near term, assuming they can continue to fill all the seats come race weekend.

[Duncan]

F1 without the British GP is unthinkable. It's actually more unthinkable than F1 without Monaco. F1 is basically a national sport in UK, along with tennis and football, and Britain is a pretty damn big country. A lot of F1 racing is defined by Britons and factories based in Britain. 7 out of 10 current F1 team factories are based in UK. Many of their supplies are also in the UK. The dominant Mercedes engine factory is in UK. The British are driven mad by the success of another Briton who is now a three time WDC. So I don't think that Bernie, another Briton, is stupid enough to actually leave UK without a GP.

The problem with this is that Bernie is mostly interested in money, and his primary skillset is that of a dealmaker. For a dealmaker like him, having walking away being considered "unthinkable" is a major problem. If you can't walk away, how do you negotiate a better deal? You don't have any leverage if you can't walk away. So Bernie has to do a whole bunch of "unthinkable" things just to prove that he can.

This is, of course, totally messed up. But it's where we are.

[henners88]

I hope it doesn't come me to the Circuit of Wales as that is my local track. I don't want it bankrupted within a couple of years of opening thanks. If it leaves Silverstone I think that is the end of F1 in the UK. Silverstone is one of the very few blue ribbon tracks on the calendar and has the best facilities for hosting F1. If it does go then that is immensely sad and will be the final nail for me.

[zako85]

The problem with this is that Bernie is mostly interested in money, and his primary skillset is that of a dealmaker. For a dealmaker like him, having walking away being considered "unthinkable" is a major problem. If you can't walk away, how do you negotiate a better deal? You don't have any leverage if you can't walk away. So Bernie has to do a whole bunch of "unthinkable" things just to prove that he can.

This is, of course, totally messed up. But it's where we are.



Let's remember what makes up formula 1 racing (in on particular order):


Drivers
Cars
Teams
Circuits


Note that circuits must be on this list. F1 without its great circuits is like WEC without Le Mans. Fans anticipate the races on the great circuits like Spa, Monza, Silverstone, etc. Without the traditional circuits, the series becomes just a nuvo-riche or mickey-mouse track racing series alienating the long-time fans, without necessarily attracting a whole lot of new fans.

Bernie Ecclestone really cares about the Europeans fans a lot (don't laugh) as the source of his profits. They are the ones who constitute the majority of the faithful TV viewership audience, hence they are crucial for his TV rights revenues. On the other hand, he wants to collect as much money as he can from the race track owners, so he moves a lot of GPs to the nuvo-riche countries while still hoping that the Europeans continue watching the races on TV without having a whole lot of European-based GPs they can visit.

Here lies a huge contradiction in Bernie goals. While Bernie wants collect a whole lot of cash from likes of Azerbaijan for hosting the "European GP", he also wants the high TV viewership in Europe. How else can you explain the fact that more and more mostly Asian races are being held at night time? Just take a look at the list (next year): Russia, Azerbaijan, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, and Singapore. Bernie certainly wants the European eyeballs glued to the TVs, hence the timing of eastern races, while sending the actual races to the nuvo-riche countries where the governments are willing to pay 20-25million USD for each race. The problem here like I said, if F1 racing abandons the iconic European race tracks, will the Europeans continue being interested in this type of racing? Probably no.

This is actually part of the reason I am against the "night races". The only reason those asian night races exist is to make the Europeans watch them. Get rid of the night races, and Bernie would seriously be interested in bringing more races back to Europe. Perhaps FIA could do something about it.

[Stan Reid]

I actually like the night races although I would prefer that they be on Saturday nights (local). An Austin Saturday night race would be sort of cool I think-like a tip of the hat to grassroots American racing.

[henners88]

I actually like the night races although I would prefer that they be on Saturday nights (local). An Austin Saturday night race would be sort of cool I think-like a tip of the hat to grassroots American racing.
I don't think a US night race would work due to it meaning the majority of F1's global audience would not be watching at 2am. F1 coverage is built around European viewing due to it being most popular here so perhaps it would be out of the question.

Then again Bernie is keen to reduce the amount of people watching the sport so anything could happen..

[Starter]

I don't think a US night race would work due to it meaning the majority of F1's global audience would not be watching at 2am. F1 coverage is built around European viewing due to it being most popular here so perhaps it would be out of the question.

Then again Bernie is keen to reduce the amount of people watching the sport so anything could happen..
Not to mention the cost of putting lights around a traditional road course. COTA lost their shirts this year with the rain. They'll be struggling just to put one on next year.

On the other hand, mandating headlights on F1 cars may just be the aerodynamic drag needed to slow the cars down again. :D

[Rollo]

On the other hand, mandating headlights on F1 cars may just be the aerodynamic drag needed to slow the cars down again. :D

Ban wings.

That'd mean that the cars could follow each other at inches from each other again and they'd slide about like all get out.

Formula Ford was better than F4 for this reason.