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rallyace
28th September 2015, 20:10
"France, Germany, Britain and Portugal all want to be on the calendar, but we think China has to come in and, clearly, there is not the budget to be running with 14 rounds, so something has to change." Oliver Ciesla, WRC Promoter

“It’s maybe nice to come on holiday (in this country), but it’s not for rallying.”

These were the almost prophetic words uttered by Carlos Sainz, then driving for Toyota, as he was asked to describe his thoughts towards the upcoming China Rally of the 1999 season. When asked directly whether or not the two-time world champion believed there was a place in the championship for China, he bluntly replied: “Not at all”, shaking his head.

When China was included in the 1999 WRC season it wasn’t exactly what you would call an untroubled affair. There was frequent talk of a drivers’ boycott of the event after it was announced that rescue helicopters would be unable to fly on many of the stages due to the poor weather conditions.

“It will cause everybody, not just the drivers, but the teams as well, concerns that maybe the response time to get to any accident is increased significantly,” were the words of likable Brit and future world champion Richard Burns. Tommi Mäkinen had a slightly more relaxed, albeit still somewhat concerned, approach to the matter: “I’m sure there are going to be some sorts of, uh, problems. It’s the same for everybody.” Quite a Finnish response, one might say.

The boycott would not hold water and the drivers embarked on the recce, which for some further strengthened the dislike of the event. The atrocious, marathon-like conditions combined with a hard, rocky base and soaked upper layers caused many drivers, Sainz included, to voice their discomfort. However, not everyone had hard feelings towards the event.

Colin McRae had won the rally twice before when it was a non-championship event. “The event has been run better than a lot of other events in the championship – they have done very well,” McRae stated after the recce.

Broadcaster Mark James was equally impressed with the nature of the stages and the incredible backdrop: “In the four-and-a-half years that I’ve been reporting on the World Rally Championship, I can’t remember a more stunning location.” With the rally route zig-zagging the Great Wall, it would be difficult to disagree with him.

The event would feature lots of drama as both Fords crashed out in the same corner of one of the early special stages, and a big fight developed amongst the frontrunners. In the end Didier Auriol would secure his first win of the season at the Chinese round.

Today these opinions are rarely remembered. Few “average” rally followers even recognize that the WRC has even visited China before. Regardless, there has been a tremendous debate as to whether China will (again) become a WRC event as early as next season.

WRC manager Michele Mouton said: "For China, we will know something soon. We have to know soon because the calendar is coming for September."

Most rally fans would be happy to welcome another event to the calendar. It would be difficult not to appreciate the extra publicity for the sport of rallying, and with no current Asian round, the WRC would arguably also become less of a (predominantly) European-based championship.

However, 14 rounds for 2016 is not going to happen, as Oliver Ciesla of WRC Promoter states: "France, Germany, Britain and Portugal all want to be on the calendar, but we think China has to come in and, clearly, there is not the budget to be running with 14 rounds, so something has to change."

Ouch. And unfortunately, the event that has been viewed by the media as the one likely to be replaced by China next year, is Wales Rally GB (according to David Evans of AUTOSPORT) – which is one of the only events to be part of the WRC in one shape or form since its inaugural season back in 1973.

One of the main reasons for this is due to the fact that Rally GB has not yet signed a contract with the country of Wales to further host the event in the future. Ciesla confirmed that if Rally GB were to renew its partnership with Wales it would help its cause.

"If there is a deal then we would be happy to have them as a candidate," he said.

Objectively speaking, Germany is not likely to leave the WRC for a number of reasons. First of all it is home to what is currently the most successful (albeit scandal-plagued) manufacturer of the WRC, but there’s also a scarcity of tarmac events these days. Germany’s unique challenge of “three different rallies in three days” will stay. With Corsica as the venue for the French round, it will stay as well, especially if this week’s rally delivers anything remotely close to what the rally was known for when it was still run in the championship.

So it’s down to Portugal and Wales for the last spot, and every time politics are involved, it’s incredibly difficult to make an accurate prediction. It might come down to “who likes whom” and who is ready to put the biggest bag of euros on (or perhaps under) the table.

Despite this, there are some reasons to get excited about China possibly returning to the WRC. Some of the most essential points are underlined here:

1. The WRC needs an(other) endurance event

The Safari is gone. And we miss it, don’t we? The closest the WRC comes to an endurance event today is Argentina, which actually in a lot of ways resembles the types of road you’ll find at the Chinese round.

In endurance tests it sometimes comes down to who’s got the luck and not necessarily who has driven the best rally, so for the ever-dominant Sebastién Ogier it would perhaps be more of a challenge to win than, say, Portugal.

2. Pressure from Citroën

It’s no secret that Citroën are on the verge of quitting either their WRC or WTCC campaign. It has been publicly announced that Citroën want the WRC in China as a large part of their sales are in the Asian market, and a Chinese round would likely help boost further sales as well as provide them with better marketing opportunities, especially in Asia.

3. Lack of non-European events

Yes, we all know it, non-European events are tricky. They are far away (which means a difficult time getting all the necessary equipment from A to B) and expensive to run as a result of this. But let’s face it, the WRC could be a lot more international and expand to include new territories.

But despite all of this, is it really possible to get excited about China when you think of what is potentially lost in the championship by its inclusion?

Originally I was thrilled upon learning that China would likely be a WRC round. However, the more I learnt about the background for this – 13 rounds instead of 14, Rally GB likely getting the short end of the stick – the more I dislike the idea as a whole.

Despite the seemingly many admirable positives to a Chinese event, I am of the mind that you simply can’t beat heritage. You cannot simply buy the high standards that the Welsh round has become synonymous with. You simply cannot change the marvelous perception inside of our rally-loving minds that an event as stunning and spectacular as Wales Rally GB deserves to stay. No amount of logical interpretation of a ‘new’ event’s potential or rhetoric can change that.

Didier Auriol wrote history as he became the inaugural winner of the WRC’s first visit to China.

History will be written again, but the question remains as to whether the next page in the history books will be someone winning the 2nd edition of the WRC’s encounter in China – or that a very likely, seemingly certain second visit to China miraculously dissipated.

TheFlyingTuga
28th September 2015, 20:48
Do you still have doubts that if in the end comes to that, Portugal Rally will be out? Money allways comes first, and to be sincere Portugal haven't had a lot this years. When in 2001 a event must be dropped so Germany could be in the calendar, who's the one rally to go out! Us of course. Ok, the conditions in 2001 were horrible but, weather it's nothing you can make good just because you want. I didn't matter that we were the safest rally in WRC the prior year, or the year before that. Nothing... just the money matters!
So, let China have a one-off WRC round, again, and then everybody will be shut about it, because I don't think that the drivers will enjoy it. Specially since most of them are always complaining about everything. In '99, they could not like it, but they did it. Nowadays... I can see them really boicoting the thing.

tc10a
28th September 2015, 21:02
China was a disaster in 1999 and I highly expect we wont see it in the calendar in 2016. Should be clear Wednesday evening.

Simmi
28th September 2015, 21:23
What is the origin of that piece in the opening post? It's quite old anyway seen as GB has got the deal in place to secure its short-to-medium term future.

I think the WRC does need China if the manufacturers want it. Ideally the calendar would be a mix of classic events and breaking into new territories. That is the reality of a healthy world championship - you can't just keep competing on tiny European islands.

I don't really understand the point about endurance tests and China. I don't see any endurance tests on the current calendar. I certainly think there's room for two or three to be built into the calendar in future years - expanding on existing rallies. But that's a separate discussion, and unless it's the Safari there's probably no point making a long-haul event an 'endurance' test.

It looks increasingly like the China discussion will be parked for 12 months. I hope they can work hard to get it on the calendar in 2017. No point rushing it and having another one and out. Do it properly and try to grow a decent event over a few years.

Andre Oliveira
28th September 2015, 21:33
If Citroën wants China, why not a "Ma Qing Hua" rally driver?

Mintexmemory
28th September 2015, 21:34
China was a disaster in 1999 and I highly expect we wont see it in the calendar in 2016. Should be clear Wednesday evening.

Hope you're right!

AL14
28th September 2015, 21:51
It's not that all WRC rounds will be replaced by 13 events in remote places, it's just one rally out of 13 in one of the most powerful and important country in the world.

There will be only good outcomes if China will host the round.

Simmi
28th September 2015, 21:58
If it's not China that comes in it will be Abu Dhabi so we might as well have something that actually benefits the manufacturers, the championship and its global reach.

Mintexmemory
28th September 2015, 22:35
Sooner or later one of these distant events, with no long history of motor sport, will have a big disaster because of the lack of experienced and trained marshals. Whatever happened to 'walk before you run'.

Rally Power
28th September 2015, 22:39
Why begin this thread with outdated news? It's almost certain that 2016 calendar won't have changes and if any new non european event came to WRC in 2017 probably none of the mentioned rallyes will be affected (contract renovation has 3 years length).

sollitt
29th September 2015, 03:42
It's absolute nonsense that "the WRC needs China". There is no gain for either the WRC or the manufacturers to participate anywhere that they will not be noticed.
If VW want bang for their marketing buck in China they should sponsor the Ping Pong or the Chinese Checker championship.

The way to promote the WRC and it's participants is to stage high quality, well promoted, iconic events in traditional locations and to entice competitors from around the globe.
A lone Chinaman winning the Tour de France would create more media in China that staging a copycat event in downtown Beijing.

A world championship doesn't need to travel. What it needs is to be accessible to competitors from around the world with an appropriate formula and a location enabling affordable participation.

China? Phooey!

Lundefaret
29th September 2015, 12:52
I think one first must see the different motivations for going to China.

The Chinese market is off course extremely exiting for a car manufacturer. But selling cars via the WRC circus is not an easy job, if Your aim is to sell cars to Chinese people in China.
As solute points out, the crowd response in China to motorsport isn't huge.

So, why IS China important (we now it is because big companies/teams want to take the WRC there).

1) It could be a way of selling the WRC project to the board in the company. Marketing money sits loose when the word China is uttered.

2) It could be a way to sell China, to European tourists. Why would that be good? Because the companies paying for it (Citroën, VW, Hyundai) could be given benefits from the Chinese government.

3) It could be used to sell cars to Chinese in China, but this would require a centrilized event with the possibility of huge crowds.

A Chinese event could be done with a race from one big city to the next, with start and stop being rally festivals in the City centre with super specials, and a big circus around it.

It could be held whit one city as the start, and finish etc.

But both these events would require a lot in both organization and marketing, but could be more beneficial for the Chinese market than staging it around The Great Wall or another tourist destination.

Rally has one VERY important core value, and that is the possibility of bringing the show to the fans, and to the people.
In my mind Fafe in Portugal, the Swedish and Finnish rally, an Irish event, bringing back The Safari, bringing back the true RAC rally, doing the Monte as it should be done, having maybe one more event in Eastern Europe, etc, would maybe be more important for the future of the WRC than staging a Chinese event - if nothing special is made by this opportunity to make it a real experience/adventure.

AL14
29th September 2015, 13:45
In my mind Fafe in Portugal, the Swedish and Finnish rally, an Irish event, bringing back The Safari, bringing back the true RAC rally, doing the Monte as it should be done, having maybe one more event in Eastern Europe, etc, would maybe be more important for the future of the WRC than staging a Chinese event - if nothing special is made by this opportunity to make it a real experience/adventure.

All these events have had their first time, and for most of them there has been someone saying that they were not the right location. Luckily no one listened to them.

tc10a
30th September 2015, 09:41
Some News before todays WMSC Meeting:

China on provisional 2016 WRC calendar, but 14 rallies angers Teams...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121082

Simmi
30th September 2015, 12:13
Some News before todays WMSC Meeting:

China on provisional 2016 WRC calendar, but 14 rallies angers Teams...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121082

Worrying to see this to be honest.

Adding an extra round but potentially losing two teams is no one's idea of progress - especially when one of the teams they were supposedly doing this for might leave. Are the teams bluffing? In the WEC the organisation are paying the freight costs for their 2016 expansion round in Mexico. I don't know if that is an option here? What does the WRC promoter have to say?

Part of me also wonders whether China will appear on the calendar and then disappear F1-style. But at what cost? Teams still have to budget for it even if there is an asterisk next to it.

Andre Oliveira
30th September 2015, 12:47
Citroën wants China, China get in, Citroën gets out? Lol

Rallies every year smaller. Less rounds but more km, or more rounds less km?

Lundefaret
30th September 2015, 15:44
Citroën wants China, China get in, Citroën gets out? Lol

Rallies every year smaller. Less rounds but more km, or more rounds less km?

This shows so well why one shouldn't base these decisions on one manufacturer, because they are only in it until the marketing manager says stop.

A team like M-Sport is much more sustainable for the WRC, in that they have a business model where th WRC is an integral part, and they make money on it, so they are as dependent on the WRC as WRC are of them.

BTW:14 rallies is a bit crazy, when 13 already may be one or two too many. China is crazy if its not done proper.

AndyRAC
30th September 2015, 17:44
I think 14 is too many - I understand why, but this ain't F1.
Broken record alert: I'd prefer 10 proper iconic Events, that sell the sport and show why the WRC is a fantastic series. A even mix of surfaces, a fair split between endurance, sprint and the current WRC 'generic event'.

What is a Chinese event going to bring to the WRC? Anything different?
When manufacturers start shouting the odds - remind them who is boss. They have far too much say into the running of championships around the world. And will leave at the drop of a hat.

litifeta
1st October 2015, 06:32
I would like to see 14 rallies. And the championship decided by your best 10 events. Allows more global coverage and makes it easier for privateers.

Mirek
1st October 2015, 09:45
No, please no skipping. That has never made anything better. The only good way to make it easier for privateers is to have less events. Skipping bad results doesn't help privateers at all. It only looks like that. We have seen it in IRC/ERC. The best example was Mikkelsen's title. He was either winning or crashing and he won the title thanks to this skipping of some events. No privateer can afford to drive like mad to keep winning for the cost of crashing in nearly every second round.

cabaye2
2nd October 2015, 04:22
I certainly think there's room for two or three to be built into the calendar in future years expanding on existing rallies. But that's a separate discussion, and unless it's the Safari there's probably no point making a long haul event an endurance test.

Simmi
2nd October 2015, 12:50
Interesting to listen to the team bosses being interviewed on WRC.com

Malcolm Wilson says 14 rounds puts extra strain on them but he is looking to try and use the trip to China as a business opportunity to make new customers for R5 cars etc. Good attitude I think - no talk about walking away.

Yves Matton obviously happy about China but says 14 rounds does not fit into their business strategy. He says that if the idea is to do 14 rounds going forward then that could negatively impact their choice in terms of WRC vs WTCC.

He wants to find out whether the strategy is for 14 going forwards - although to be honest I don't really see his issue as if they did commit to '17 that was reportedly going to come with an increase in budget. I think he will struggle to find an answer to his question. But no talk about walking away next year - still talking about drivers.

Zeakiwi
2nd October 2015, 13:07
I think there should be a World Championship of the top 12 Rallies (1 per month), mid season break for the drivers to attend car shows, marketing etc . Have a skip a year on some events in Europe - counts for ERC one year and WRC the following year.

China - should just run the WRC and APRC at the same time at Long You and get the quality of the organisation of the event increased etc.

Rather than R5 rally Fiesta - M Sport should make R5 Kuga SUVs, custom Ford Everests (set up a Chinese factory) for the wealthy off road enthusiasts.

Livewireshock
3rd October 2015, 12:36
Okay, time for another point of view on this. I have been attending rally events in China for years and it is not with out it's faults but it is quite a show. Always over 100 entries with manufacturer teams from many international companies, Suzuki, Citroen, VW, Skoda, Subaru, Lotus (Proton) and many local companies such as JAC, BYD, Senova & more. Most teams have 6 or more cars each. How many other national rally championships can claim such backing?

The organisation from 1999 is not the same group running in 2015. There has been a maturity and growth in the sport. The whole country has transformed over that time with great speed and Carlos Sainz would not recognise anything if he returned to the same places he competed at.

The other factor that has not been raised yet is the opportunity for the teams to gain Chinese companies to sponsor them. The Middle Eastern money that has propped up the WRC teams may not last forever. The prospects in China are many and varied. While many events flounder with no funding, the Chinese has local government support and a major sponsor already signed, LeTV (an Asian internet media company worth billions). These are funds and backing that would never come into the sport unless it is willing to leave Europe.

itix
4th October 2015, 01:21
Okay, time for another point of view on this. I have been attending rally events in China for years and it is not with out it's faults but it is quite a show. Always over 100 entries with manufacturer teams from many international companies, Suzuki, Citroen, VW, Skoda, Subaru, Lotus (Proton) and many local companies such as JAC, BYD, Senova & more. Most teams have 6 or more cars each. How many other national rally championships can claim such backing?

The organisation from 1999 is not the same group running in 2015. There has been a maturity and growth in the sport. The whole country has transformed over that time with great speed and Carlos Sainz would not recognise anything if he returned to the same places he competed at.

The other factor that has not been raised yet is the opportunity for the teams to gain Chinese companies to sponsor them. The Middle Eastern money that has propped up the WRC teams may not last forever. The prospects in China are many and varied. While many events flounder with no funding, the Chinese has local government support and a major sponsor already signed, LeTV (an Asian internet media company worth billions). These are funds and backing that would never come into the sport unless it is willing to leave Europe.

Exactly... even Donald Trump can see the importance of China in the global economy so why shouldn't we?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs

AL14
4th October 2015, 01:40
Exactly... even Donald Trump can see the importance of China in the global economy so why shouldn't we?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs

lol

Rally Hokkaido
7th October 2015, 04:33
Some news just in;
http://aprc.tv/newsPage.php?FIA-Stalls-on-China-867

GigiGalliNo1
14th November 2015, 08:30
Did the world end when the WRC had 16 rounds in 2004 and 2005? Ok there were 6 WRC teams and there were 4 privateer teams!

So WRC China is now in the 2016 calendar!

I'm looking forward to change. Key word is "Forward"

Lets move in that direction, have a bit of variety in the WRC with this new round. I see no point in complaining from our keyboards behind our desks/phones.

The championship should continue to grow. I certainly am looking forward to attending WRC China!

AndyRAC
14th November 2015, 11:14
Its okay saying the championship should grow; is it sustainable? Not at the moment it isn't. We currently have 2 Full factory teams in VW & Hyundai, plus Citroen who seem more interested in the WTCC, then a non factory semi-official Ford M-Sport team.
Always look to go forward, but only when it's affordable - at the moment it isn't. 12 is currently the max they should be going for.
So Jean Todt & manufacturers want China; is China interested? Will there be plenty of media & spectators when they go?

Mk2 RS2000
14th November 2015, 21:51
The championship should continue to grow. I certainly am looking forward to attending WRC China!

See you there.

omer yetis
15th November 2015, 06:31
is China interested? Will there be plenty of media & spectators when they go?

They are very much interested in having WRC here in China.
and yes, there will be a huge number of local Media before/during and after the rally. Talking about spectators, thats another entertainment for the local people. They are very much interested in seeing and experiencing new events in their cities or towns. but the question is how much they understand about rallying or have courage to learn about it...
and how many percent of these spectators can afford to buy a car in manufacturers aspect. I am very sure that even a small percentage makes big difference for manufacturers in a country like China due to the huge population and car sales. every brand wants to have more share in the market.

on the other hand, rallying is new in this country compared to other legendary rallying countries like Finland, GB and so on... but I can say they are fast forward as they have a lot of money and government support.
their national championship is running at least 70-80 cars each event and this is the limited numbers... they have tons of local car producers that are also paying more attention to rallying every year.
this is to say that Automobile industry is one of the biggest in the World and they are having acknowledge how important rallying is for their branding.

I am fully supporting to have WRC in China for a step of improvement in WRC as car manufacturers are going to have a big media support here, hoping will also increase their car sales. ends up hopefully bigger funds can go back to WRC...

but my biggest concern is the safety during the rally. how prepared is the FASC? (Chinese motorsports federation) or how educated their staff is for an event on World scale
I am pretty sure they will do their best but can they control spectators or people's behave?

hope the best for rallying and WRC in China...

Munkvy
18th November 2015, 04:03
See you there.

I am looking at attending now too. Does anyone know much about exactly where it will be held? Is it actually gonna be in Huairou?

GigiGalliNo1
18th November 2015, 13:36
I am going. DM me.
Best for people to fly direct to Beijing or if it's cheaper to HK, then a ferry to main land China then catch a local flight to Beijing but I don't trust local Chinese airlines..... At Beijing airport, you can get a permit to drive a rental car in China. Otherwise foreigners cannot drive in China, but the rules might changes closer to the rally dates...

janvanvurpa
19th November 2015, 03:06
I am going. DM me.
Best for people to fly direct to Beijing or if it's cheaper to HK, then a ferry to main land China then catch a local flight to Beijing but I don't trust local Chinese airlines..... At Beijing airport, you can get a permit to drive a rental car in China. Otherwise foreigners cannot drive in China, but the rules might changes closer to the rally dates...

Are you sure about the car rental thing?

And are you sure you want to risk taking many years off your life by driving in Beijing?

I have driven in London, and i have driven in Paris...And I take taxis in China.
Even though my family there says I am a very good Buddhist, I do not want to leave this life and begin again another life. Not Yet...

Grundo Farb
19th November 2015, 04:07
I am going. DM me.
Best for people to fly direct to Beijing or if it's cheaper to HK, then a ferry to main land China then catch a local flight to Beijing but I don't trust local Chinese airlines..... At Beijing airport, you can get a permit to drive a rental car in China. Otherwise foreigners cannot drive in China, but the rules might changes closer to the rally dates...

Flying in china is fine. If you fly from Hong Kong to Beijing there is no problem. Probably safer than in some parts of Europe. Don't forget the trains. Shanghai to Beijing on a very fast train...

GigiGalliNo1
19th November 2015, 04:08
Are you sure about the car rental thing?

And are you sure you want to risk taking many years off your life by driving in Beijing?

I have driven in London, and i have driven in Paris...And I take taxis in China.
Even though my family there says I am a very good Buddhist, I do not want to leave this life and begin again another life. Not Yet...

Do you expect to drive from stage to stage in a taxi? In Rural China during the rally?

Livewireshock
19th November 2015, 12:25
From what I could gather from the Service Park Manager at the APRC event in Longyou, the rally will be based around Yanqi Lake, Huairou. This was the site for the 2014 APEC meeting, so there is a new exhibition hall there and super expensive boutique hotels all managed by the 5 star egg shaped East Sunrise Kempinski Hotel. These are located to the north of the Huairou city area.

The stages themselves will still being looked at. The current stages are located 80km north of this lake, connected by a divided highway that passes the Great Wall. Potential stages are being looked at across the north of Huairou and Miyun County.

Here are some pictures of the hotels and lake area as used during APEC.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=apec+2014+huairou&safe=off&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI8O30xLCcyQIVI1GmCh19EwB2

Livewireshock
19th November 2015, 13:20
Do you expect to drive from stage to stage in a taxi? In Rural China during the rally?


It is possible to hire a taxi for the whole day, which is what I am guessing that he means. However, you must do this in Beijing or Huairou, because there will be no taxis in the stage area unless they are hired by other people. The hassles in negotiating fees, timings and navigation can be a horrible chore too for people without Chinese language skills. Many drivers in central Beijing would flat out refuse to drive into many rural areas, unless it was a well known tourist spot.

As for getting the temporary drivers licence in China, this is the easiest guide I could find.
http://motorhome-china.com/report_dl.html
While it is possible to get such a licence in other places in China, it can be very mixed, from being refused or only allowing for a full licence. Thus I would recommend obtaining your licence in Beijing Airport Terminal 3. Thankfully it is landside, so you do not need to arrive in Beijing by air to access the Traffic Police office. Expect to pay at least 2,000RMB upwards for a small car for a week, but the cash deposit could also easily double that figure or more pending on the rental company.

As for the roads and conditions, here is a photo I took last year on my way from SS1 to the Baoshan area. Three trees in the middle of the intersection, but at least there are traffic lights, even if obscured by the branches.
820

janvanvurpa
19th November 2015, 17:37
Do you expect to drive from stage to stage in a taxi? In Rural China during the rally?

Me? Not going... Next time we go back will be maybe December next year. Yesterday it was 30*C back there so we think we'll go when its not so toasty.

And as for driving in rural China, I'd have no worries except the big one: getting totally lost.
And then asking directions..Not language issues but most people are not used to giving ROAD directions.. It really is often hilarious.....Maps are rare and often lack huge amounts of detail and of course 99% are 100% in Putonghua. Pretty rough if you don't read really well.

The moving around of possible speccies is something the organisers can probably arrange; the Chinese are very good at moving groups around.

GigiGalliNo1
20th November 2015, 14:33
When you get a Media Guide with maps, your sorted :D

More than happy to help you guys when you're lost :)

omer yetis
20th November 2015, 17:25
Fly with Turkish airlines to Istanbul and then direct flight to Beijing....
and if you guys need any information about China, I will do my best to help you with as I live in Shanghai for the last 10 years and did the China rally championship earlier....

Livewireshock
21st November 2015, 14:19
My suggestion for travel from Europe would be with Hainan Airlines, who fly from Brussels, Berlin and Prague from about 550 Euros return at the moment for the dates surrounding the rally direct to Beijing. They are the pick of all Chinese airlines and deserve their 5 Star Skytrax ranking. Much better than Air China, China Eastern or China Southern. Do not treat passengers as total cattle class and have more room in each class of seating, even on domestic flights within China.

For bargain hunters, it is possible to find cheaper flights to Hong Kong due to the extra competition flying there. However flying direct from HK to mainland China can be more expensive (up to 300 Euros more) than a similar mainland domestic flight from Shenzhen Airport, because of the extra taxes on HK flights. Yet crossing the land border to Shenzhen is easy and painless with multiple travel options, Shenzhen Airport is new, huge and wonderful to pass through. The two airports are only 40km apart as the crow flies.

As for flying domestically in China, the way tickets are priced and sold is a little different to most other places. All air routes are priced by government regulation, so much per kilometre, this is regardless of which airline is flying that route. The individual airlines then discount this base fare by 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 or more percent, this is always a rounded to the nearest 10. So many airlines on the same route will have the exact some price. What to look out for is when those discounts take effect, normally the base fare is the only available price far in advance, with discounting only coming in one or two months before the flight (pending on destination) and then go back up with a week to go.

Airspace in China is controlled by the military and is restrictive. If a problem occurs in one place, planes simply can not fly around bad area, causing delays that often snowball onto other routes through out the day. Thus morning flights are more reliable to be on time than evening flights, with cancellations being quite possible for lengthy delays.

High speed trains run almost everywhere in China, they are very reliable, fast and comfortable. Most large railway stations are more conveniently located in most cities, but not always so. There are first class and second class seating, with only a few overnight sleepers on high speed routes. They are about the same cost as an airline flight though with little difference in cost between classes. VIP, Sightseeing and Business class seats are not worth the cost.

Conventional trains can be much slower, can be slightly delayed, yet will be much cheaper and stop at older inner city stations. There are soft and hard sleepers, soft and hard seats as the four classes. Seats are only good for trips up to 6 hours in length, otherwise always choose a sleeper.

Train tickets are available up to 60 days in advance now. Try to avoid buying tickets in crowded ticket halls at train stations and try to find ticket offices and agencies located in hotels or in small shopfronts around the city. For an extra 5RMB cost, you avoid the noise, crowds and save lots of time.

For all travelling needs a website like http://english.ctrip.com/ is very good. It is possible to book hotels, flights and train travel there.

Livewireshock
21st November 2015, 14:56
Now for my thoughts on accommodation around Huairou for the rally week. There are a few 5 star hotels located close to the urban area of Huairou. Most of the new hotels are situated around Yanqi Lake, site of the 2014 APEC meeting and possible service park, however these are distant from the regular downtown area. There are a few but not many business style basic hotels in the urban parts of the town too, 7 Days Inn is a good brand that is equivalent of Ibis Budget hotels for example. About 10km east is the larger town of Miyun. It has a larger selection of hotels, including a ski field, French wine chateau, replica of Tasmania's Government House and more.

Out of the town and closer to the stages, there are a huge number of small B&B style places. These mostly cater to the weekend getaway crowd from Beijing, seeking out the natural beauty in the mountains. These can be priced quite cheaply, however, expect services to be limited with no foreign languages spoken and often hard to locate. However expect the hosts to be very welcoming and friendly with invitations to share meals with the family.

Regardless of the star rating, you can expect most beds in China to be rock hard by Western standards (this is a Chinese cultural preference and they believe it is better for you). Do keep in mind also that all accommodation providers must be licenced to host foreigners, so some cheaper places do not allow overseas travellers to stay.

During the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games, I rented an apartment in nearby Miyun for 3 months, because a basic furnished apartment was cheaper for a month (1200RMB) than a single night in a Beijing Hotel (avg 2000RMB). During that time I cycled my way around the mountains and plains around Huairou and Miyun. So I am very familiar with this place, even after going back for the rally last year. However renting an apartment would not be an option for a single week for most travellers.

This area is famous for the mountains, the Mutianyu and Simatai sections of the Great Wall, clean waters, fish and national parks. There are several major breweries located there too, even some wineries.

Getting to Huairou, if you do not have a private car or transport, catch the train from the airport to the city terminus at Dongzhimen, then go to the ground level bus station and find the Express 916 bus. This is a soft seated coach, this will make only 3 stops in central Beijing before running along the expressway to Huairou where it then makes multiple stops. There is a bus leaving every 10 minutes until about 8pm and takes about an hour, before finishing at Huairou Bus Station. Be aware that there is a slow 916 bus that travels almost the same route but stops everywhere along the way, thus over 2 hours in travel time. Buses have luggage bays underneath the coach for all your gear if you need to use them. During rush hour they can be overcrowded too.

Handy description of the Beijing bus station and shows the Express 916 bus.
http://www.tour-beijing.com/blog/tag/dongzhimen-bus-station