2015 Hungarian Grand Prix

[AndyL]

It's been a long wait since the last race and it's an even longer wait for the next one, so let's hope it's a good'un! The weather forecast is very hot for Friday and Saturday, turning slightly less hot for Sunday, with a possibility of the occasional thunderstorm over the weekend.

Standard European session times:

Friday 24 July
Free practice 1 starts: BST 9:00 AM, local (CEST) 10:00 AM
Free practice 2 starts: BST 1:00 PM, local (CEST) 2:00 PM
Saturday 25 July
Free practice 3 starts: BST 10:00 AM, local (CEST) 11:00 AM
Qualifying starts: BST 1:00 PM, local (CEST) 2:00 PM
Sunday 26 July
Race starts: BST 1:00 PM, local (CEST) 2:00 PM

[truefan72]

massive crash from perez!
the right rear suspension looks to have broken on high speed and over the curbs
looks like the toe link
thankfully he is ok. but that was nasty
he was upside down

I doubt that this car will run again today

[truefan72]

and now the ferrari front wing of kimi mysteriously collapses and causes a 2nd red flag. that too was a fairly comprehensive failure
hmmm. something must have broken

[N. Jones]

Was that rain I saw? Or did I see a picture of some other track....

[Nitrodaze]

Ricciado is on his 5th and last engine for the rest of the season. It is looking like Redbull would be needing at least another 2 engines for the rest of the season. Maybe they should just park the car until Brasil. The engine rule is looking very inequitable at the mo. It is looking like, the FIA giving Honda an extra engine may not suffice either. Red bull and p[ssible Mclaren may be due to getting engine penalties in the 2nd half of the season.

[AAReagles]

'Engine Penalties'... :rolleyes:... what will they think of next... chassis rations? Hmm sounds harsh, better employ a euphemism instead; 'participation insecurity'?

[yodasarmpit]

Go Alonso

[rjbetty]

So let's see:

Definitely a role reversal from 2014 this year. Hamilton is the qualifying dude. If my calculations are correct, he can win the pole trophy at the next race?

Rosberg will be closer in the race, but unless anything happens, Ham should have this one.

Vettel again consistent, whatever the Ferrari is capable of, he certainly delivers it almost always.

This is a good day from Kimi, yet still only 5th... As much as I like him, someone else has to be driving that car next year. Hope he can shape up however.

McLaren are a disappointment! That podium is looking more like a pipe dream, they're just too far for any upgrades to get them that far up this year I think.

[kfzmeister]

Too bad about ALO. Poor guy.

I'm rooting for RIC to have a hell of a race tomorrow.

[Nitrodaze]

McLaren are a disappointment! That podium is looking more like a pipe dream, they're just too far for any upgrades to get them that far up this year I think.

A transformation project like the Mclaren-Honda one is a very painful exercise. Things have to get worst before it gets better. Reliability is preventing Mclaren from unleaching the true potential of the package. I think the Mclaren is not running at its full potential. Hence the perception of the Mclaren may be misleading and premature. Alonso can, which is why he bothered to push the car back to the pits when he broke down.
The Mclaren-Honda will come good, true Mclaren fans need to be patient and let the team sort out the unavoidable gremlins. Making a move like this to change engine manufacturers, is ballsy, especially to one that has no experience of the current FIA engine rules. Hence it was always going to be tough. But if any team can pull it off, Mclaren is definitely such a team. They have done it before and they shall do it again.
If it was easy, Redbull would have dumped the Renault engine for daimler or porsche or audi if they can be persuaded.

[AAReagles]

McLaren are a disappointment! That podium is looking more like a pipe dream, they're just too far for any upgrades to get them that far up this year I think.

Yeah, I'm just pulling for McLaren so Tazio's accountant doesn't have a heart-attack figuring out how to pay off the pre-season wager. Although the value of the USD might not amount to much by then. :s

But hey! You never know; look what happened to the McLaren stream-roller in 1988, all but one race (Italy, Ferrari). Could this be McLaren's momentary reversal of fortune? :eek:

[veeten]

Hi guys. :)

Roll off lap...

[veeten]

Here we.... GOOOOOO!!!!!!

Oh, Damn!... aborted start. :p

[gm99]

Forza Ferrari! :p

[Koz]

Vette!! Kimi!

[veeten]

can you say... Ambushed! :p :D

[Nitrodaze]

Mercedes drops the ball again :0

[pino]

Forza Ferrari !!! :D

[veeten]

Pastor "hip checks" Sergio... :p

[veeten]

Daniel vs. Lewis... this should be fun... ;) :D

[pino]

Can't believe Pastor, still has F1 seat... :crazy:

[veeten]

Money, pino. It explains everything... :s :p

[Nitrodaze]

Choice of tyre for Hamilton not working out. The harder trye may have been to one

[rjbetty]

just tuned in to see that Hamilton seems to making it hard on himself again!! (was it his fault?)

He is now catching Nico. I wonder how that will go after last year. Is the context the same or similar enough? They are both fighting for the title.

Whatever my criticism of Kimi, though I really like him, he does get all the car problems... Is he complaining of engine problems I hear?

[pino]

So it's over for Ferrari ! :mad:

[gm99]

Those Force Indias seem to be of a rather feeble nature...

[veeten]

So, Kimi will now be underpowered for the rest of the race. Wonderful. :s

[veeten]

Watch out for Daniel, he seems to be in position to make a go for it. ;)

[kfzmeister]

Oh man, we have ourselves a race! HAM has been on a tear....

[rjbetty]

Contact with Hammy and Riccy. Lewis down to 6th now.

[veeten]

Pino... spoke too soon.:p

It was a lovely dream, wasn't it? :p :D

[pino]

Pino... spoke too soon.:p

It was a lovely dream, wasn't it? :p :D

Yes it was a lovely and unexpected dream... :(

Damn safety car !

[Nitrodaze]

Why did Merc not put Rosberg on the yellow walled tyre?

[Nitrodaze]

Overkill on the punishment of Hammy

[rjbetty]

He'd better drive like his life depends on it. I don't want to see any head dropping here. This is the kind of race where champions are made.

Both McLarens well in the points by the way. :)


EDIT: WTH PROBLEMS FOR NICO ROSBERG? Puncture Yikes!

[Nitrodaze]

There is something very unusual about this race.

[rjbetty]

Maiden podium for Kvyat as well as RB-1-2 if Rosberg drops down. Both McLarens still well in the points YAY!

If Rosberg loses places, Max Verstappen will also be 4th and Alonso 5th!!

And it will be the first non-Merc podium of this new era.

[veeten]

I give up...

Vettel makes the hot move, maintains top performance, and everyone else is stumbling all over themselves.

[rjbetty]

It's actually Kvyat 2nd with 3 laps to go.

Ferrari look like achieving their objective of "a couple of race wins" for 2015. Who would have thought it?


EDIT: Will Ricciardo be penalised? I don't think so, but if he is, Max Verstappen will be on the podium! At the same track his dad got his first one.

[pino]

Well done Vettel !!!!!!!

[rjbetty]

Kvyat has 10 seconds added to his race time according to BBC. Will this promote Ric, and MAX?!!

[AndyL]

I can't believe so many teams decided to stay on the prime tyre when the safety car came out. The option tyre paid dividends for the Red Bulls and Alonso.

[gm99]

Amazing race! First non-Merc Podium since 2013!

[truefan72]

boy what a race

ok let me take a breath!

congrats Vettel
congrats Kyvatt

congrats verstappen
congrats Alonso

nice recovery for Hamilton, I'll take 6th today and a small stretch in the WDC given the ragged race today

[Ranger]

Very entertaining race.

Shame there is 4 weeks until the next GP! :(

[Mekola]

What a race for Red Bull and McLaren! :)

[Nitrodaze]

Well done Vettel, Well done Ferrari

[Nitrodaze]

I think the Merc team have under performed here. The pit wall did not do Rosberg justice by putting him on the hard tyre when the yellow tyre would have been the one to win the race. I wonder what is going on at Mercedes????

[Ranger]

I think the Merc team have under performed here. The pit wall did not do Rosberg justice by putting him on the hard tyre when the yellow tyre would have been the one to win the race. I wonder what is going on at Mercedes????
Didn't Rosberg ask for the harder tyre?

Both Rosberg and Hamilton made pretty big errors, without which they could have still won the race.

[rjbetty]

Kvyat's penalty makes no difference. How did he get 20+sec ahead of Ricciardo after the safety car?

Career best results for Kvyat and Verstappen today.

Vettel still only 42pts off championship lead, and 21pts off 2nd...

[EightGear]

Unbelievable race.

[Ranger]

Kvyat's penalty makes no difference. How did he get 20+sec ahead of Ricciardo after the safety car?

Career best results for Kvyat and Verstappen today.

Vettel still only 42pts off championship lead, and 21pts off 2nd...

Ricciardo had to pit for a new front wing after Rosberg ran into him.

[gm99]

Kvyat's penalty makes no difference. How did he get 20+sec ahead of Ricciardo after the safety car?


Ricciardo pitted after the incident with Rosberg...

[truefan72]

Didn't Rosberg ask for the harder tyre?

Both Rosberg and Hamilton made pretty big errors, without which they could have still won the race.

exactly

he asked for them, his engineer told him the wall didn't think it was a good idea, he insisted...he lost
all he was thinking was that he wanted the same tires as hamilton instead of looking at the big picture.
Hamilton had to go on to the hards because he ran 2 stints on the softs already
Nico is to blame, as well as his failed scare tactic on Ricardo that cost him valuable points

then his inability top even attempt a passing move on vettel was another epic failure
I know the ferrari was hooked up today, but on the mediums the mercedes was more than a match.
I can guarantee you that if hamilton was in his position, he would have at least attempted a move on vettel

[A FONDO]

Kvyat's penalty makes no difference. How did he get 20+sec ahead of Ricciardo after the safety car?


Ric pitted to repair his wing I think

Unbelievable race.

Absolutely, the first one from a long time that I want to download and re-watch immediately after it ended.

[rjbetty]

And where were Williams today?!!


EDIT: Also, an unexpected win for Ferrari, the team that Jules Bianchi had big links to (and would certainly have been announced as a 2016 driver right about now) seems fitting this weekend out of all, with Vettel also dedicating his win to the late driver.

[Nitrodaze]

What a great day for Mclaren? Keep believing

[Nitrodaze]

Poor Kimi, he just seems to always end up with the short end of the stick. Rosberg would be well gutted with this race today. He missed a crucial opportunity to win the race and take the lead of the championship. I wonder who's call it was to sticking with a hard tyre when the option for the faster yellow tyre was available?

Mercedes do not seem to have sorted out the glitches that has affected their race starts, more noticeable at Silverstone. They cannot afford to have such problems with a team like ferrari and Vettel right behind. They handed the race win to Ferrari today by having this problem but more so by making a bad tyre choice call for Rosberg. Being on the wrong tyre put Rosberg in the situation of the clash with Ricciado and the ultimate loss of advantage.

After pushing his stricken car to the pits yesterday, finishing 5th was a well deserved result for Alonso. There is inherent pace in the Mclaren to be unlocked in coming races.

What about Vesterpen? Wow 4th, his highest finish to date. Watch this space chaps.

If Mercedes keep having dodgy weekends like this, then one have to seriously consider Vettel as a championship contender. 42 points is not enough cushion for Hamilton to dismiss Vettel as threat. At half way point, 42 points is enough gap for Vettel to have real hope of sneaking into the fight for the championship in the 2nd half of the season.

[AndyL]

exactly

he asked for them, his engineer told him the wall didn't think it was a good idea, he insisted...he lost
all he was thinking was that he wanted the same tires as hamilton instead of looking at the big picture.

Yes I assume at the time of that conversation, Rosberg did not realise that he and Hamilton were on counter strategies. Why Rosberg's side of the garage didn't stick with the plan, I can't understand.

[Nitrodaze]

Yes I assume at the time of that conversation, Rosberg did not realise that he and Hamilton were on counter strategies. Why Rosberg's side of the garage didn't stick with the plan, I can't understand.

I suppose this brings us back to question of why the Merc pit wall always cave in to driver pressure when they should know better. The have all the info and know the advantage difference of the soft tyre over the hard one. With Rosberg sitting 2nd and enough laps for the soft to get to the end of the race. You do not have to be a master tactician to see the way to go. The BBC commentators were just as surprised as everyone on this choice of tyres for Rosberg.
This is the trait at Mercedes that leads me to believe that Vettel is a world championship contender this year. It would not be long before he slips past Rosberg in the points. With the sort of mistakes that is happening at driver and team level, we are looking at the possibility of an interesting close to the season.

[N. Jones]

I was falling asleep during the middle part of this race. Then, right before the race started getting great my cable went out!

:bigcry:

[The Black Knight]

Fantastic race. To be frank, much like Belgium last year I can't believe that Ricciardo got no penalty for that incident with Rosberg, it was totally avoidable, though, unlike Nico last year, Ricciardo's was unintentional. I guess it's just Karma biting Nico in the ass.

Interesting race and a pretty clumsy one from Hamilton. He could have won with ease today. Now for the stupid summer break.

[Nitrodaze]

Not sure why Hamilton is so eager to accept the blame for what was a combined team and driver mistake. If the launch system on Merc was working properly, Vettel would not have got past in the first place. However, once the place was lost, the mind set should have been for the long game, which is where the fault lies with Lewis. But the man is a fighter and jostling to get back in the frame is what the racer in him instinctive attempts to do. This why he is exciting to watch. Shame it did not quite work out. On the whole it has not made any significant difference to the world championship fight. He has increased the gap rather than lose any to his nearest rival.

You have to remember that he drove nearly 30 laps with brake issues.

[ShiftingGears]

Fantastic race. To be frank, much like Belgium last year I can't believe that Ricciardo got no penalty for that incident with Rosberg, it was totally avoidable, though, unlike Nico last year, Ricciardo's was unintentional. I guess it's just Karma biting Nico in the ass.

Interesting race and a pretty clumsy one from Hamilton. He could have won with ease today. Now for the stupid summer break.

Ricciardo didn't get a penalty because Rosberg cut across him. Racing incident but 100% Rosberg's fault.

[The Black Knight]

Ricciardo didn't get a penalty because Rosberg cut across him. Racing incident but 100% Rosberg's fault.

The pure definition of a racing incident is that neither driver is at fault and it couldn't be avoided so really your argument doesn't hold up here.

Rosberg had the racing line, Ricciardo had lost the move, Ricciardo should have backed out. Ricciardo was the only one of those drivers that could have prevented that incident from occurring. Up until the point where his wing hit Rosberg's he could have backed out. 100% his fault - definitely not a racing incident, imo.

[zako85]

Ferrari schooled Williams on how to win a race after both of your cars win the start from Mercedes. The lessons were:

1. Make sure that the faster of your cars is in the front.

2. Pit stops must be fast and well-timed

3. It's helps when Mercedes cars have an altercation on the first lap, and then keep touching other cars the rest of race ;-)

[zako85]

The pure definition of a racing incident is that neither driver is at fault and it couldn't be avoided so really your argument doesn't hold up here.

Rosberg had the racing line, Ricciardo had lost the move, Ricciardo should have backed out. Ricciardo was the only one of those drivers that could have prevented that incident from occurring. Up until the point where his wing his Rosberg's he could have backed out. 100% his fault - definitely not a racing incident, imo.


This was somewhat a clumsy race of Ricciardo. He also spun wheels and had a pretty poor start. By the 3-4th turns, he lost of a whole lot of positions. I am surprised with the team order was given to Kvyat to let through his teammate.

[greencroft]

So F1 stats gurus, how long is it since there was a race where there has NOT been a Merc-powered car in the Top 5?

[AndyL]

So F1 stats gurus, how long is it since there was a race where there has NOT been a Merc-powered car in the Top 5?

Good question! No Mercedes engine in the top 5, I hadn't noticed that fact. It's almost as remarkable as the top 4 drivers all being Red Bull driver programme graduates. Or even more remarkable, when you put it this way: A Honda-engined car beat all the Mercedes engines :)

[AndyL]

I checked the records and it seems to be Japan 2013. The best Mercedes was 8th. It was a Red Bull 1-2 with a Ferrari, two Lotus-Renaults and two Sauber-Ferraris making up the top 7.

[Nitrodaze]

Ferrari schooled Williams on how to win a race after both of your cars win the start from Mercedes. The lessons were:

1. Make sure that the faster of your cars is in the front.

2. Pit stops must be fast and well-timed

3. It's helps when Mercedes cars have an altercation on the first lap, and then keep touching other cars the rest of race ;-)

To be fair, there was no rain to mix things up for ferrari.

[gm99]

If Mercedes keep having dodgy weekends like this, then one have to seriously consider Vettel as a championship contender. 42 points is not enough cushion for Hamilton to dismiss Vettel as threat. At half way point, 42 points is enough gap for Vettel to have real hope of sneaking into the fight for the championship in the 2nd half of the season.

Interestingly, in 2012 Vettel also went into the summer break in third place with a 42-point-deficit (to Alonso) and we all know how that season ended up ;)

[The Black Knight]

Interestingly, in 2012 Vettel also went into the summer break in third place with a 42-point-deficit (to Alonso) and we all know how that season ended up ;)

If he pox'd his way to another WDC I'd be absolutely disgusted. He's worth two of the championships he has so far, no more. I doubt that will be the case this time anyway as Hamilton is on top form and if it gets to that situation, I think Merc will do the right thing and back Hamilton just as Ferrari are backing Vettel. Team interests must come first.

[Hawkmoon]

If he pox'd his way to another WDC I'd be absolutely disgusted. He's worth two of the championships he has so far, no more. I doubt that will be the case this time anyway as Hamilton is on top form and if it gets to that situation, I think Merc will do the right thing and back Hamilton just as Ferrari are backing Vettel. Team interests must come first.

Alonso got rogered by a Lotus twice in the closing stages of 2012 which cost him the title. There's nothing to say the same thing couldn't happen to Hamilton.

Hamilton should win the title comfortably. He's got a serious performance advantage over 18 of the 19 other cars and is a class above Rosberg. I'd be seriously ecstatic if Vettel were to pinch the title (a la Raikkonen in 2007) but I won't be putting any money on it.

[Nitrodaze]

I wonder what is going on with the front wings at this race. Two on different cars broke off at speed. Are they too flimsy or was there unusual vibration at the Hungaroring causing the wings to snap off. The Ferrari front wings are new, hence it may be that they got the rigidity of the struts wrong. The Force India car is new but has done one full race at silverstone where the wings survived the entire race. How many of these has happen this season?

[jens]

Vettel is sort of what Ricciardo was last year - an outside challenger.

Vettel has actually done all his critics have asked him to do. Change teams, prove yourself in a "non-Newey" car and prove that you can win races and be a challenger in non-best car (which arguably Hamilton/Alonso have proven in the past). Ferrari is certainly no match to the Mercedes, but Vettel is not too far from championship leaders. I'd say Vettel is having a stunning season. Were he to challenge right till the end of the season, it would be up there with the most stunning achievements seen in F1.

Top marks to Seb!! :up: :up: :up:

However, realistically. I don't expect a title challenge from Seb. Mercedes car advantage is big enough for them to comfortably net 1-2 in most upcoming races. Just like they halted Ricciardo's challenge last year.

[jens]

Ferrari schooled Williams on how to win a race after both of your cars win the start from Mercedes. The lessons were:

1. Make sure that the faster of your cars is in the front.

2. Pit stops must be fast and well-timed

3. It's helps when Mercedes cars have an altercation on the first lap, and then keep touching other cars the rest of race ;-)

Just like Red Bull schooled Williams last year in "how to win races".

Williams certainly has got a fast car, but not "completeness" in the team, which is what big teams (Merc, Ferrari, RBR) have. Perhaps a problem of your standard privateer team, i.e lack of budget to trim everything to an excellent level. You can have a fast car, but not truly capitalize. Lotus won 2 races in 2012-2013, but I certainly felt they should have more than that with the car they had. They certainly narrowly missed out on a number of occasions.

[Nitrodaze]

The Williams situation is a puzzling one. What l can definitely say is that they are not your ordinary privateer team. They are multiple world champions. In their previous guise, they knew how to win races and championships. Clearly they are stretched budgetwise, but they have problems on 2 key fronts; operationally on race day, they are failing to capitalize on opportunities that come their way. Secondly, the car is not consistently fast. It is great at some tracks and woeful at others. They did not score a single point at the Hungary when Mclaren with a worst car than theirs, managed to get both Mclaren cars into the top ten.

Hungary was a very poor showing of the Williams team. They need to take a much closer look at their operation and make some hard decisions. The Williams operation, simply is not working at its optimum.

[jens]

The Williams situation is a puzzling one. What l can definitely say is that they are not your ordinary privateer team. They are multiple world champions.

This is the mistake people often make. I mean... it doesn't matter if you won titles a decade or two ago. Things change. What has changed? NEW PEOPLE are working in Williams. Who is left of those people, who won titles with Williams? I mean even Adrian Newey has already changed teams multiple times after Williams. It is all new people there. Results are dependent on budget and people. They either are or aren't. History can't be confused with present situation.

"Past champions" is just a nice statistic, which people can nostalgically rely on. Lotus was also once a multiple champion, but they were in doldrums by early 1990s. Same with Brabham. I like to be nostalgic a lot, I like to watch old F1 videos. But I also know fully well I can't confuse past and present.

I used to be a fan of the Jordan team, but during the 2003 season I realized the "good old Jordan", which challenged top teams, was a thing of past, and the new one was a cash-strapped small team, which barely survived. It was a bit painful to digest the new situation, but I had to do it.

[Nitrodaze]

Results are dependent on budget and people. They either are or aren't. History can't be confused with present situation.

I think you touched on the key to success when you say results are dependent on budget and people. The injection of new talent into the Williams team brought about the improvement that have them in 3rd place in the constructor table. They have good people in the team clearly, and they seem to be on cusp of breaking through to a more competitive level of performance. They at least are in a position where people care to place a higher expectation on the team to perform consistently as a 3rd place team with real desire to improve to 2nd place this year. And show signs of hunger to get to the very front.
We can say what we like, at the end of the day, it is the outcome that really matters. Williams is not your ordinary privateer team, because taking on Ferrari and Redbull and attaining 3rd place with their budget is testament of that fact. If it was easy, Force India or Lotus would be in that position. With the severe limitations on chassis and aero designs, it is much tougher for non-engine manufacturer teams to find the sort of edge that saw Brawn win a WCC and WDC a while back. The sharp end is about engine performance and high downforce package. Hence you would expect manufacturer teams to be at the sharp end. Mercedes and Ferrari as it were. Breaking through that or getting into the mix of these teams [Merc and Forza] is an achievement that Williams can be proud of, l think. They just need to do it consistently at all tracks.