Lewis didn't say he wouldn't help .

[Bagwan]

But , he did say that he didn't want Nico to win , if he couldn't , himself .

This cat says some of the darnedest things .

He wants it to be a one-two for Merc , but only if he's in that first position .
Doesn't seem selfish at all , does it ?

I guess he never wants to be the dutiful number two .

Well , guess what , Lewis ? Nobody does , but some of the best have played the role .

And , you just wrecked your team mate's motivation , should you need a back-up , if the Reds get too close .

And , last , but certainly not least is what it says to your team .


He's a great set of hands with a crazy mouth attached .
I love it .
Bernie called him the best ever , and I'm starting to come on side .

[AAReagles]

Hamilton/Merc topics are reminding me of the good ol' days of the ground-zero Schumi/Ferrari discussions; may the forum flash-point-debates continue. :D

[henners88]

*News flash*
Competitive Formula One driver has a selfish mindset and wants to be number one in his team and winning instead of his team mate.... Shock horror on a slow news day.

[Nem14]

I am the polar opposite of Bernie, in that I think Lewis is one of the worst F1 champions the sport has ever had.

[steveaki13]

I am the polar opposite of Bernie, in that I think Lewis is one of the worst F1 champions the sport has ever had.

Can I ask why? I don't believe him to be the best or the worst. Just interested as to what makes people have their views. :)

[N4D13]

I am not precisely a Lewis fanboy, but I can't see anything wrong with what he said. He's not racing to give Merc a championship, he's racing to win it for himself. So what could possibly be wrong with hoping that your main rival for the WDC doesn't win races?

[306 Cosworth]

It was nice to see Lewis actually wishing Nico Happy Birthday on his Instagram page yesterday.

[The Black Knight]

It amazes me that some people whom have been avid followers of F1 for so many years can be surprised that a racing driver is selfish, as though it was something new and unexpected. It's the first and foremost rule of thumb if you're a racing driver, particularly if you've made it to F1, you're selfish and that's it. Hardly a shocker!

[Firstgear]

Selfish is the wrong word to use here. If Lewis was selfish he'd want everything for himself, but that wouldn't explain why he'd single out Nico. Unless he hates Nico for some reason, and I don't think he does. This is about ego and reputation. If a non-Mercedes driver wins, Lewis can always say the machinery was the difference, and still carry the belief that he is the better driver. If Nico wins, the machinery can't be blamed and Lewis has to admit to himself that he is, at most, the second best driver.
This is a completely normal thing for anyone who's competitive enough to get into F1 to say.

[steveaki13]

Can't imagine Senna or Prost were fussed about each other winning if they didn't. Probably hoped the other would retire.

Even Vettel. Can't imagine him being happy to play second fiddle to Webber those years at Red Bull. I think most F1 drivers want to beat everyone. If they can't I imagine deep down the would want anyone but a team mate to win. As it would only be showing them up.

[journeyman racer]

Speaking of team mates saying they wouldn't help. Here's a cringeworthy profile on Sebastian Vettel's former team mate, which screened on Australian tv last night.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/

[AAReagles]

Selfish is the wrong word to use here... This is about ego and reputation... the belief that he is the better driver..
This is a completely normal thing for anyone who's competitive enough to get into F1 to say.
Exactly what I was thinking.

I realize that some statements by drivers are not well expressed to convey their thoughts properly - notably the last 25 years or so. Nevertheless
, it still doesn't take away the fundamentals of being a professional driver. I would go even further to suggest that ego itself may not be a factor in that mind-frame, but instead more of a resolved/robotic thought process that "I'm here to win." Concentration of anything less would be unacceptable and possibly dangerous.

Which is why I never had a problem of Carlos Reutemann and Rene Arnoux disobeying team orders when the opportunity presented itself.

[Bagwan]

He didn't say he wouldn't help , but he certainly implied it .

I'm not surprised at all that Lewis fans see this as no big deal .
After all , he's said stupider stuff .
And , they are getting used to his mouth .



But , this is directly against what his team wants .
They clearly want a 1-2 .
He clearly articulates that he hopes they don't get it , implying that he won't help them do it .


I guess I'm old school , am I ?
I respected greatly , those who dutifully played the #2 role , after the math wrote off chances .
Maybe I'm a little sensitive about it because of Gilles , who played the role properly , gained the #1 seat and left us after another disappointed as a #2 .


And , what more do you need than to beat your team mate ?
Wouldn't it have been better to say you won't help him win , but you will do everything you can to get him second ? Wouldn't that imply you are stronger still , having to help the poor sod ?
Or , is he trying to make the car look less dominant , making himself look better ?
That couldn't make his employers happy , can it ?



We all know they are all selfish , but some have more respect , both for other drivers , and for their employers .

If Lewis trusts Merc , he should know they have stated time and time again that they want a fair race between them .
He and they both know they have a dominant car .
Both also know a 1-2 is the aim .

Merc now knows Lewis doesn't want this , despite them taking full responsibility in the pit screw-up Nico win , to save him feeling aggrieved even though he played a role in the decision .
Then , Nico gets the first corner next race , and shows the same dominance that Lewis has at other tracks , having gained that first corner , himself .


Saying crap like this has the other side of the garage fully aware , not likely very helpful , and perhaps slightly more motivated against him , wouldn't you say ?
Perhaps the team , in general , might feel a little put out by the remarks , especially after the recent signing of the big bucks contract , because they might have thought he was a member of their team , instead of one saying he has other ideas .

[AAReagles]

...I respected greatly , those who dutifully played the #2 role....
Maybe I'm a little sensitive about it because of Gilles , who played the role properly...Gilles and Ronnie gave their word and performed accordingly - different times, different drivers perhaps.

The circumstances that underlined Gilles' death provided an opportunity that the FIA should have used to alieviate this sort of problem; a ban on team orders - regardless of a teammate's position in the WDC chase.

[Bagwan]

You can't ban team orders . They are two-car teams .

When they are banned you get all kinds of stupid controversy because they use them anyway .

There is honour in being the dutiful #2 .

[AAReagles]

There is honor in keeping your word - with regards you can be trusted.

I do, however, think that designating a 'dutiful' #2 - in racing of all things - is a grey area that goes against the very nature of competition. Not to mention raises the questions about an organization refering to itself as a 'sport.'

[rjbetty]

He didn't say he wouldn't help , but he certainly implied it .

I'm not surprised at all that Lewis fans see this as no big deal .

It's no bigger a deal than Rosberg's comments earlier this year. For example, while he didn't say outright he wished Lewis would DNF, his surprise at Vettel's commiserations for Kimi in Melbourne actually spoke volumes about Nico imo.


Saying crap like this has the other side of the garage fully aware , not likely very helpful , and perhaps slightly more motivated against him , wouldn't you say ?

Again you could apply these words to Melbourne and China and they would fit well. Just trying to show what appears to be inconsistency here.


If nothing else, at least Lewis is being honest I guess - one of the reasons I like him - something you don't see that much of in F1.

[Bagwan]

It's no bigger a deal than Rosberg's comments earlier this year. For example, while he didn't say outright he wished Lewis would DNF, his surprise at Vettel's commiserations for Kimi in Melbourne actually spoke volumes about Nico imo.



Again you could apply these words to Melbourne and China and they would fit well. Just trying to show what appears to be inconsistency here.


If nothing else, at least Lewis is being honest I guess - one of the reasons I like him - something you don't see that much of in F1.

Refresh my memory , would you ?
What did he say ?

Both of these guys have been really childish at times , and deserve a good lecture about how nice it is to be driving the best car on the grid , one that every other driver would relish the chance to drive .

Both are really good , but neither would have much chance at winning without that car right now .


Talk large .
Say stuff like :"I'll get you next time , you bastard !" .

Stir it up with stuff like :"I need to win it early , because I fear Nico is going to need my help in beating Seb ." .


But , I just don't think it smart to say your desire to disobey your team's intentions .
Maybe , in the heat of the moment one can be excused by the red mist , but to state it in a calm interview , away from the rubber smell is worth a slap , in my opinion .

Don't get the idea that I feel he should change at all .
It's the reason I like him , too .

[henners88]

I think the team can excuse a driver for what the more sensitive types like Bagwan perceive as anti team comments. They control strategy so have more of a say in how each drivers races are managed. It's banter, perhaps a British thing? Nico and Lewis have exchanged tongue in cheek insults for some time and are rivals for the championship. They are also not the first rivals in history to try and get under each other's skins. They certainly won't be the last.

The chances of these two becoming perfect sterile PR robots is about as likely as somebody on here saying something complimentary with Lewis Hamilton in the same sentence and getting a 'like' from Mia 01. ;)

[Mia 01]

Its obvious all of them consider them self to be superior. But most of em are wise enough to not speak in public about it. Not so much dear Lewis on hand. And ofcourse, this is common knowledge so for me it´s a line as the other. The "Monkeys at the back" is still haunting my memory. If only he got Fernados seat.

[henners88]

Its obvious all of them consider them self to be superior. But most of em are wise enough to not speak in public about it. Not so much dear Lewis on hand. And ofcourse, this is common knowledge so for me it´s a line as the other. The "Monkeys at the back" is still haunting my memory. If only he got Fernados seat.
I take it you don't know the story about the context of the 'monkeys at the back' comment and how Lewis came to know about it then? lol

[CNR]

There is honour in being the dutiful #2 .
http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-283076.html
Sebastian Vettel threatened to sue Red Bull over the 'Multi-21' affair of 2013.

That is the explosive revelation in Mark Webber's newly-published autobiography Aussie Grit

[Big Ben]

They both have great personalities. I love them.

[Bagwan]

I think the team can excuse a driver for what the more sensitive types like Bagwan perceive as anti team comments. They control strategy so have more of a say in how each drivers races are managed. It's banter, perhaps a British thing? Nico and Lewis have exchanged tongue in cheek insults for some time and are rivals for the championship. They are also not the first rivals in history to try and get under each other's skins. They certainly won't be the last.

The chances of these two becoming perfect sterile PR robots is about as likely as somebody on here saying something complimentary with Lewis Hamilton in the same sentence and getting a 'like' from Mia 01. ;)

I know you don't like defending his mouth , Mr. h , but do remember that's because he says stupid $hit all the time .
That really is one of the reasons I like him .

His candor , now that he's free of "handlers' , is worth the price of admission on it's own .


I wish somebody else on the grid would say something dumb so that we could have a laugh together about it , henners .

I'm getting tired of this place , sadly , and I've been here since 2001 .

[Bagwan]

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-283076.html
Sebastian Vettel threatened to sue Red Bull over the 'Multi-21' affair of 2013.

That is the explosive revelation in Mark Webber's newly-published autobiography Aussie Grit

Yeah , that's not pretty at all , is it ?

[henners88]

I know you don't like defending his mouth , Mr. h , but do remember that's because he says stupid $hit all the time .
That really is one of the reasons I like him .

His candor , now that he's free of "handlers' , is worth the price of admission on it's own .


I wish somebody else on the grid would say something dumb so that we could have a laugh together about it , henners .

I'm getting tired of this place , sadly , and I've been here since 2001 .
Unfortunately it's difficult to laugh about it because the history on this forum has been anything but funny when discussing this particular driver. I don't see anything dumb in Hamilton's comments on this occasion either. If anything I like that he has matured and its comments like this that demonstrate that in my opinion. He's got fighting spirit and is looking to unsettle his title rival. That's world champion behaviour is it not?

It could be worse he could be suing his team for messing his strategy up at Monaco but the thought of that was absurd until the article above came to light. Imagine if that was Lewis and not Seb? Lewis gets his own thread for something far less controversial.

[Bagwan]

Unfortunately it's difficult to laugh about it because the history on this forum has been anything but funny when discussing this particular driver. I don't see anything dumb in Hamilton's comments on this occasion either. If anything I like that he has matured and its comments like this that demonstrate that in my opinion. He's got fighting spirit and is looking to unsettle his title rival. That's world champion behaviour is it not?

It could be worse he could be suing his team for messing his strategy up at Monaco but the thought of that was absurd until the article above came to light. Imagine if that was Lewis and not Seb? Lewis gets his own thread for something far less controversial.

Not so sure he's matured as much as you think , and still think it was a dumb thing to say , but I agree that a little trash talk is greatly needed .
And , certainly , a world champion should be cocky enough to issue a few unsettling comments .


And , you're right about that Seb thing , but , to be fair , Hammy said his lines before the Webber tell-all was reported , so that's why this thread started first .

I'll head back and start one on that weaselly , Sebastian , right now .

[airshifter]

The way I see it, if the teams that pay them the big money aren't too upset with it, then it's all good. A little smack talk has long been part of racing, and just because these guys are at the pointy end of the sport doesn't mean their comments should always be taken to heart.

If I was a team order a clearly visible line in the sand might be drawn for the drivers to see, and a reminder of contractual obligations mentioned from time to time. But being I am hundreds of millions of dollars short of that position, I'll leave it up to the actual owners and teams to decide how to keep their drivers in line.

[Big Ben]

I wont comment on what the teams should or shouldn't do with their drivers. I'm sure for them it's not all so black and white like it is for me. I have a very long armchair expertize after all. I'm sure juggling with these primadonas is not such an easy experience. Most of the times a smack in the head should do but I'm pretty sure contracts don't allow it and what would you do when they throw a hissy fit and start crying anyway?

[steveaki13]

Hamilton has this issue, when he looks dominant and in control he takes his eye off the ball and throws his advantage away.

2007 he somehow did it. (not all his fault)
2008 he looked set and again, nearly threw it all away.
2014- Should have been further ahead, but somehow made it look harder than needed.

2015 - Its happening again. He could have won almost all races, but has taken his eye off it again and has been caught. He needs to get his arse back in gear. :D

[rjbetty]

Hamilton has this issue, when he looks dominant and in control he takes his eye off the ball and throws his advantage away.

2007 he somehow did it. (not all his fault)
2008 he looked set and again, nearly threw it all away.
2014- Should have been further ahead, but somehow made it look harder than needed.

2015 - Its happening again. He could have won almost all races, but has taken his eye off it again and has been caught. He needs to get his arse back in gear. :D

Tell me about it. I guess Lewis is the driver I support most on the grid, but I'm thinking of changing of allegiance to Romain Grosjean for no.1, might be less stress. :p

[Bagwan]

Tell me about it. I guess Lewis is the driver I support most on the grid, but I'm thinking of changing of allegiance to Romain Grosjean for no.1, might be less stress. :p

You support Lewis the most , but not with your avatar ?

Afraid to be seen with him ? Hee hee .

[henners88]

Hamilton is the most exciting or was for me for a long time. I like Verstappen and I have always admired Alonso's ability too. I like the fact with Lewis it could all go pear shaped because he has a habit of stuffing situations up! Makes it more exciting for the fans ;)

[steveaki13]

Good point Henners

I mean we think if his stuffing up as a weakness which I guess it is.

However probably makes his winning more exciting than most

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk

[rjbetty]

You support Lewis the most , but not with your avatar ?

Afraid to be seen with him ? Hee hee .

Nah, that moment with Jenson was so funny I had to make a little picture of it and put it as my avatar. Couldn't pass it up.

I'm looking at getting myself a giant gold chain/necklace sometime soon. :p

[Bagwan]

Nah, that moment with Jenson was so funny I had to make a little picture of it and put it as my avatar. Couldn't pass it up.

I'm looking at getting myself a giant gold chain/necklace sometime soon. :p

I think either Gigi or Kendal has the one you really want .

[Bagwan]

Hamilton is the most exciting or was for me for a long time. I like Verstappen and I have always admired Alonso's ability too. I like the fact with Lewis it could all go pear shaped because he has a habit of stuffing situations up! Makes it more exciting for the fans ;)

Ha !
We do like him for the same reasons then , my man !

[Jag_Warrior]

Not so sure he's matured as much as you think , and still think it was a dumb thing to say , but I agree that a little trash talk is greatly needed .
And , certainly , a world champion should be cocky enough to issue a few unsettling comments .


And , you're right about that Seb thing , but , to be fair , Hammy said his lines before the Webber tell-all was reported , so that's why this thread started first.

But Hamilton's comments were made well after we all knew about Vettel's comments that Webber didn't deserve to win and then violated team orders to take the win for himself. The only part we didn't know about was that he ran to his lawyer and had a letter sent to the team. And we all know what he said when Red Bull told him to stop holding up Ricciardo last season, who was on a different strategy: "tough!" I actually like Vettel and his tendency to NOT be some sort of politically correct corporate robot. I give him props for that. But Vettel can be quite childlike when things begin going against him. Of the top drivers, I'd say that he's easily the worst on that count. But Kimi and Alonso have also had their classic moments over the years too. So has Massa ("I on sticky part of track!"). And yes, so has Lewis.

And I have to say, Hamilton's comments don't bother me nearly as much as that bizarre eye rolling and face twitching that Rosberg does when other people are speaking during press conferences. There was a YouTube video compilation of some of his "best" performances. I'll have to look for it later. It's quite entertaining. Maybe he';s got some sort of tick. I don't know why he does that sometimes. But I'm thinkin' the boy ain't right.

The only thing I don't like about Lewis right now is that Lindsey Vonn probably made him breakfast this morning. And I have to go pour milk on cold cereal all by myself! Damn him! :devil:

[Bagwan]

It makes me wonder what punishment was forthcoming , to have warranted a lawyer letter .

[rjbetty]

But Hamilton's comments were made well after we all knew about Vettel's comments that Webber didn't deserve to win and then violated team orders to take the win for himself. The only part we didn't know about was that he ran to his lawyer and had a letter sent to the team. And we all know what he said when Red Bull told him to stop holding up Ricciardo last season, who was on a different strategy: "tough!" I actually like Vettel and his tendency to NOT be some sort of politically correct corporate robot. I give him props for that. But Vettel can be quite childlike when things begin going against him. Of the top drivers, I'd say that he's easily the worst on that count. But Kimi and Alonso have also had their classic moments over the years too. So has Massa ("I on sticky part of track!"). And yes, so has Lewis.

And I have to say, Hamilton's comments don't bother me nearly as much as that bizarre eye rolling and face twitching that Rosberg does when other people are speaking during press conferences. There was a YouTube video compilation of some of his "best" performances. I'll have to look for it later. It's quite entertaining. Maybe he';s got some sort of tick. I don't know why he does that sometimes. But I'm thinkin' the boy ain't right.

The only thing I don't like about Lewis right now is that Lindsey Vonn probably made him breakfast this morning. And I have to go pour milk on cold cereal all by myself! Damn him! :devil:

I like the bits I bolded. To be fair on Vettel, he does have a sense of humour and at least tries not to be all corporate, as much as it is possible to.

Can you post a link of that vid, I'd like to see it. I haven't really seen Rosberg do this but can imagine it being the case.

Another reason I tend to gravitate toward Hamilton more than others is that there is a... dislike toward him that is... just off... and something more and beyond that others receive. He is also, along with Alonso*, judged by far the most unfairly imo, and held to a completely different (and increasingly unreachably high) set of standards than anyone else.

Since I am familiar with receiving this in my own life, I can empathise and kinda feel I want to stand in front of him and defend him a bit.


*OFF TOPIC* There's this way of thinking that's becoming prevalent that Alonso was to blame for Ferrari's increasingly poor performances, and that Ferrari are now good because of Vettel. WTF?

If that's true, they should consider that cars are designed and developed at least one year in advance, actually meaning that Alonso would be responsible for developing this year's Ferrari - while the 2015 Red Bull...

[jens]

These are the kind of threads I usually am not bothered to read, so I am unsure what you are even talking about, even after a quick glance. But never mind. Still wrote a post here.:D

[Jag_Warrior]

I like the bits I bolded. To be fair on Vettel, he does have a sense of humour and at least tries not to be all corporate, as much as it is possible to.

Can you post a link of that vid, I'd like to see it. I haven't really seen Rosberg do this but can imagine it being the case.

Another reason I tend to gravitate toward Hamilton more than others is that there is a... dislike toward him that is... just off... and something more and beyond that others receive. He is also, along with Alonso*, judged by far the most unfairly imo, and held to a completely different (and increasingly unreachably high) set of standards than anyone else.

Since I am familiar with receiving this in my own life, I can empathise and kinda feel I want to stand in front of him and defend him a bit.


*OFF TOPIC* There's this way of thinking that's becoming prevalent that Alonso was to blame for Ferrari's increasingly poor performances, and that Ferrari are now good because of Vettel. WTF?

If that's true, they should consider that cars are designed and developed at least one year in advance, actually meaning that Alonso would be responsible for developing this year's Ferrari - while the 2015 Red Bull...

I tried to find the link I had to the Rosberg vid last night and I don't see it now. It's not that obvious and I don't think he does it on purpose or to be rude. He probably doesn't even know he's doing it. It's more like an occasional facial tick or something.

Hamilton is my favorite driver. I've been following hm since the early days of his lower formula career. But unlike the late 90's, I like the vast majority of the drivers now. And I personally like drivers who speak their minds and who aren't corporate or PC - that's why I like Vettel and Raikkonen. But western society has become so incredibly hyper-sensitive to every little thing that is said (or isn't said - ya gotta be politically correct or risk the wrath of the thought police). I miss "ballers" like James Hunt, Niki Lauda, Senna, Mansell and even Eddie Irvine. If someone didn't like something that Lauda or Senna said, they'd let you know right quick, you'll get over it or you won't... and they didn't care which option you took.

If anything, I wish Hamilton was more brash. But that's not his personality and I respect that.

[Bagwan]

These are the kind of threads I usually am not bothered to read, so I am unsure what you are even talking about, even after a quick glance. But never mind. Still wrote a post here.:D

Maybe you shouldn't have bothered , Jens .

But , just in case you actually come back to see if I reacted to that shot , I'll explain what I was talking about one more time .

I have no problem with a trash-talking driver .
We need more , way more of it between the drivers . Word wars are great .


But , Lewis isn't feuding with his team here , so why say contrary things to their wishes ?
They've stated over and over that they want a 1-2 , and that they want it to be a straight fight .

Essentially , he went farther than to say he wouldn't help , saying he hoped somebody else gets second .

It would have been better for him to have said he hoped that Nico gets second place , but that he wouldn't help , in my opinion . At least that isn't wholly against the team's objective .

[jens]

Now that I read this thread I'd like to make some more comments.



Another reason I tend to gravitate toward Hamilton more than others is that there is a... dislike toward him that is... just off... and something more and beyond that others receive. He is also, along with Alonso*, judged by far the most unfairly imo, and held to a completely different (and increasingly unreachably high) set of standards than anyone else.

Since I am familiar with receiving this in my own life, I can empathise and kinda feel I want to stand in front of him and defend him a bit.


Interesting claim. But the thing is... it is so dependent on personal perspective. I think Vettel has been getting more "bashing" than either Alonso and Hamilton throughout years. Standards have also been set "unrealistically high" - he needs to prove himself more and more before getting rated anywhere near top drivers, this despite winning and succeeding. And for sure Vettel has far less fans, also on forums. I don't know, how you can feel like a minority, so that you need to defend Lewis, but I certainly feel a minority in fangroups! Lol!

[jens]

Tell me about it. I guess Lewis is the driver I support most on the grid, but I'm thinking of changing of allegiance to Romain Grosjean for no.1, might be less stress. :p

Well. Considering I have a soft spot for Grosjean, I have to tell you I don't recommend.:p: It looks like his career heights are over. A string of podiums in late 2013 and I don't think he'll ever exceed/match that. At least Hamilton is still likely to win further championships.

[jens]

*OFF TOPIC* There's this way of thinking that's becoming prevalent that Alonso was to blame for Ferrari's increasingly poor performances, and that Ferrari are now good because of Vettel. WTF?

If that's true, they should consider that cars are designed and developed at least one year in advance, actually meaning that Alonso would be responsible for developing this year's Ferrari - while the 2015 Red Bull...

How many people realistically think that?

In contrast I bet Garry Walker would tell you that Vettel has the best car even now and doesn't win only because he is a rubbish driver, while Räikkönen is just a #2, who is forced to succumb to the Golden Fingerboy!

That's how the perspectives can vary in the world.;)

[jens]

Maybe you shouldn't have bothered , Jens .

But , just in case you actually come back to see if I reacted to that shot , I'll explain what I was talking about one more time .

I have no problem with a trash-talking driver .
We need more , way more of it between the drivers . Word wars are great .


But , Lewis isn't feuding with his team here , so why say contrary things to their wishes ?
They've stated over and over that they want a 1-2 , and that they want it to be a straight fight .

Essentially , he went farther than to say he wouldn't help , saying he hoped somebody else gets second .

It would have been better for him to have said he hoped that Nico gets second place , but that he wouldn't help , in my opinion . At least that isn't wholly against the team's objective .

I read the opening post and from what I gather, it all started out, because Hamilton said that if he didn't win, he'd not like Rosberg to win?

To be honest, I don't know, what I am supposed to say. I think they all think like that. You don't like your direct rival to win, if you personally don't win. I bet Schumacher was pretty satisfied, when he saw Damon Hill retiring at Adelaide'94 with a broken suspension. Maybe he didn't say it out loud in an interview, but that's how it mentally works.

Hamilton's main "problem" is that he is not as skilled with media than some other drivers. Which means he says some things that are not usually said or are kept to people themselves. But he says it out loud. You have to see it through. Hamilton doesn't think "worse" than other competitive people, he just doesn't play with the media and often doesn't choose words. But it is okay, it is human.

If I was a celebrity and giving interviews each day, I think I'd try to be pretty careful. Because I know any word I'd say "wrong" would be analyzed to death and would get heavy criticism. Especially in the moment of heat.

You'd say I'd be a "PR-driver" and not "telling things sincerely/not telling truth", but if you are a celebrity and your life is heavily scrutinized, you have no other option than to KEEP SILENT and say as little as possible! If you don't want to attract unnecessary attention, which will start distracting your personal life no less.

[Firstgear]

I tried to find the link I had to the Rosberg vid last night and I don't see it now. It's not that obvious and I don't think he does it on purpose or to be rude. He probably doesn't even know he's doing it. It's more like an occasional facial tick or something.


I've noticed that too, but I think he's just flushing the champaign from his eyes. Maybe his eyes are more sensitive to it than most other drivers.

[henners88]

Interesting claim. But the thing is... it is so dependent on personal perspective. I think Vettel has been getting more "bashing" than either Alonso and Hamilton throughout years. Standards have also been set "unrealistically high" - he needs to prove himself more and more before getting rated anywhere near top drivers, this despite winning and succeeding. And for sure Vettel has far less fans, also on forums. I don't know, how you can feel like a minority, so that you need to defend Lewis, but I certainly feel a minority in fangroups! Lol!
Do you honestly believe Vettel has encountered more bashing than Hamilton throughout the years? I am guessing you are referring to forums? This forum was very active back in late 2007 to 2009 and Hamilton was pretty much the topic in every thread regardless of subject. We had perhaps 12-13 regular posters here who were anti Hamilton and contrast that to the Vettel years where this place has been quieter than a church in the middle of the night! Other forums have been very Hamilton-centric during these periods too!

Vettel has his critics here and everywhere, but it's relative because he has less fans interested in defending him lol. Hamilton has lots of fans because most of the big forums are British and he does things that attract interest both on and off the track. Seb is perhaps more intelligent in front of the media so there has been less sensation and less attraction from the viewing audiences. It perhaps also has a lot to do with background as Alonso and Hamilton are popular worldwide whereas Vettel less so.

[jens]

Do you honestly believe Vettel has encountered more bashing than Hamilton throughout the years? I am guessing you are referring to forums? This forum was very active back in late 2007 to 2009 and Hamilton was pretty much the topic in every thread regardless of subject. We had perhaps 12-13 regular posters here who were anti Hamilton and contrast that to the Vettel years where this place has been quieter than a church in the middle of the night! Other forums have been very Hamilton-centric during these periods too!

Vettel has his critics here and everywhere, but it's relative because he has less fans interested in defending him lol. Hamilton has lots of fans because most of the big forums are British and he does things that attract interest both on and off the track. Seb is perhaps more intelligent in front of the media so there has been less sensation and less attraction from the viewing audiences. It perhaps also has a lot to do with background as Alonso and Hamilton are popular worldwide whereas Vettel less so.

The bolded part is really the crux of the matter here. If you have lots of fans, you have lots of "defence". There are always critics, but if something goes "wrong", there is always an "army" to protect you. If you don't have many fans, and something goes "wrong", you will get only 'bashing' or 'criticism' in milder form. And it is out of balance.

As for 2007-2009, my memory is less hazy about that. But Vettel hadn't established himself at the front at that time properly yet, so attention was on other drivers. It may have been an 'active' period of Hamilton at that time, and Alonso, Räikkönen, Massa were under scrutiny during that time frame as well, both for good and bad reasons.

[Bagwan]

I read the opening post and from what I gather, it all started out, because Hamilton said that if he didn't win, he'd not like Rosberg to win?

To be honest, I don't know, what I am supposed to say. I think they all think like that. You don't like your direct rival to win, if you personally don't win. I bet Schumacher was pretty satisfied, when he saw Damon Hill retiring at Adelaide'94 with a broken suspension. Maybe he didn't say it out loud in an interview, but that's how it mentally works.

Hamilton's main "problem" is that he is not as skilled with media than some other drivers. Which means he says some things that are not usually said or are kept to people themselves. But he says it out loud. You have to see it through. Hamilton doesn't think "worse" than other competitive people, he just doesn't play with the media and often doesn't choose words. But it is okay, it is human.

If I was a celebrity and giving interviews each day, I think I'd try to be pretty careful. Because I know any word I'd say "wrong" would be analyzed to death and would get heavy criticism. Especially in the moment of heat.

You'd say I'd be a "PR-driver" and not "telling things sincerely/not telling truth", but if you are a celebrity and your life is heavily scrutinized, you have no other option than to KEEP SILENT and say as little as possible! If you don't want to attract unnecessary attention, which will start distracting your personal life no less.

There's just no honour , or loyalty on this point any more .

I'm sure the shoe wasn't in any hurry to help , but that was from the sidelines .
This is a little different , but , as you say , they all seem to think like that .

Maybe it's all just a fairy tale in the first place , but the idea that you might be rewarded handsomely for loyally playing the number 2 role has to be founded on a mutual respect , which , frankly in my opinion should be obvious from the outset , but seems , in F1 , to be woefully missing , and naively , not missed .

Everyone should have roughly the same goal , with the minor difference being that the drivers want to each be ahead of the other .

I'm sure these guys have been briefed on being allowed the race freely , as long as the math says they each have a chance to be first .

It's pretty simple .
It's a team .


Frankly , I love that all these guys who do super-human feats at the wheel can be rather more human at the mic .
Remember , I weathered the storm as a big JV fan .
Mind you , JV said controversial things that were easy to defend .

[henners88]

The bolded part is really the crux of the matter here. If you have lots of fans, you have lots of "defence". There are always critics, but if something goes "wrong", there is always an "army" to protect you. If you don't have many fans, and something goes "wrong", you will get only 'bashing' or 'criticism' in milder form. And it is out of balance.

As for 2007-2009, my memory is less hazy about that. But Vettel hadn't established himself at the front at that time properly yet, so attention was on other drivers. It may have been an 'active' period of Hamilton at that time, and Alonso, Räikkönen, Massa were under scrutiny during that time frame as well, both for good and bad reasons.
If you visit the busier forums I can assure you Vettel has plenty of fans defending him too. He might not have as many but the criticism has died down a lot since he's been beaten by a team mate at RB and joined the Scuderia. That in itself has added plenty of balance to discussion much like Hamilton's less successful years calmed a lot of places down.



There's just no honour , or loyalty on this point any more .

I'm sure the shoe wasn't in any hurry to help , but that was from the sidelines .
This is a little different , but , as you say , they all seem to think like that .

Maybe it's all just a fairy tale in the first place , but the idea that you might be rewarded handsomely for loyally playing the number 2 role has to be founded on a mutual respect , which , frankly in my opinion should be obvious from the outset , but seems , in F1 , to be woefully missing , and naively , not missed .

Everyone should have roughly the same goal , with the minor difference being that the drivers want to each be ahead of the other .

I'm sure these guys have been briefed on being allowed the race freely , as long as the math says they each have a chance to be first .

It's pretty simple .
It's a team .


Frankly , I love that all these guys who do super-human feats at the wheel can be rather more human at the mic .
Remember , I weathered the storm as a big JV fan .
Mind you , JV said controversial things that were easy to defend .
I'm far too young to remember the days of drivers having honour when it comes to their teams. Perhaps Damon Hill and Mika Hakkinen are the only two I have watched and haven't put themselves first before their employers. The likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen, Vettel, Schumacher, Villeneuve, Senna, Prost, Piquet etc have all done or said questionable things in the past and things much worse than anything we see lately. Why were the international media not jumping on Lewis for what you feel is such a dishonour? Perhaps there really is less to it than this thread makes out after all?