2015 Canadian Grand Prix thread

[AndyL]

Friday 5 June
Free practice 1 starts: BST 3:00 PM, local 10:00 AM
Free practice 2 starts: BST 7:00 PM, local 2:00 PM
Saturday 6 June
Free practice 3 starts: BST 3:00 PM, local 10:00 AM
Qualifying starts: BST 6:00 PM, local 1:00 PM
Sunday 7 June
Race starts: BST 7:00 PM, local 2:00 PM

[Rollo]

Australian TV - Formula One - Free To Air
09:30pm - One Hour Highlights - One.

That's 17 hours after the race has ended and only an hour of highlights... thanks Rupert (who plans to stick his worldwide headquarters at Ground Zero).

[Tazio]

'Sup dawgz FP1! ;)

[AAReagles]

It's on free tv here - LIVE even. That's cause it's a north american race. After that... $$$

[Mekola]

Good to see that finally Manor has sponsors for this weekend...

[journeyman racer]

Saw some practice highlights. Amazed anybody went out.


Australian TV - Formula One - Free To Air
09:30pm - One Hour Highlights - One.

That's 17 hours after the race has ended and only an hour of highlights... thanks Rupert (who plans to stick his worldwide headquarters at Ground Zero).
Overseas people don't care for our plight.

[Nitrodaze]

Australian TV - Formula One - Free To Air
09:30pm - One Hour Highlights - One.

That's 17 hours after the race has ended and only an hour of highlights... thanks Rupert (who plans to stick his worldwide headquarters at Ground Zero).

I suppose, this is what Vettel was hinting at in his jibe at Ecclestone. Money is slowly excluding fans from F1 like it did for boxing where it killed it and took it away from the masses completely. Who really knows who the current Boxing World champion his? Who knows how good he really is. Is he celebrated like the champion of old like Mohammed Ali, Rocky Maciano, Mike Tyson etc. Boxing now happen in obscurity and few cares who the Boxing world champion his because he is not exposed to the masses as such not really appreciated by the masses.
This is where F1 one is headed at the current direction it is going.

[Tazio]

I suppose, this is what Vettel was hinting at in his jibe at Ecclestone. Money is slowly excluding fans from F1 like it did for boxing where it killed it and took it away from the masses completely. Who really knows who the current Boxing World champion his? Who knows how good he really is. Is he celebrated like the champion of old like Mohammed Ali, Rocky Maciano, Mike Tyson etc. Boxing now happen in obscurity and few cares who the Boxing world champion his because he is not exposed to the masses as such not really appreciated by the masses.
This is where F1 one is headed at the current direction it is going.

Just for the record Marciano and Ali were in different eras, as was Tyson. In the USA in order to see "The Rumble in the Jungle" (Ali vs Foreman 1974) you had to go to a theatre or arena to watch it on closed circuit TV (before cable). I saw it live at the San Diego Sports Arena, for about $10 a seat. But since than it has become much more expensive. In the early 60s the fighters all fought 3 times a year, even the heavyweights, so you had a good idea of how they stacked up against each other. However Boxing is a different kettle of fish than auto racing, and I think it is not an appropriate comparison.

[truefan72]

early donkey goes to Nasr
SMH

[The Black Knight]

I have a feeling there will be quite a few donkeys this weekend.

1. Mercedes for sending their drivers out in FP2 on wrong tires.

2. Nasr for a stupid error.

3. Marshals for taking ages to remove Button's car and not managing to do it by the end of the session. Should only take a minute or two.

4. Maldonado, of course.

[Tazio]

early donkey goes to Nasr
SMH Yup! dumb move! :stareup:

[Tazio]

Looks like JB is going to miss qualifying!?

[truefan72]

I have a feeling there will be quite a few donkeys this weekend.

1. Mercedes for sending their drivers out in FP2 on wrong tires.

2. Nasr for a stupid error.

3. Marshals for taking ages to remove Button's car and not managing to do it by the end of the session. Should only take a minute or two.

4. Maldonado, of course.

why Maldonado?
Its a bit tiring about how people take a shot at him constantly. Unless he does something wrong, lets give the guy a break

As to the button incident. I fully agree, and what is even more annoying is that there was a crane right there to lift it over the barrier

[truefan72]

Looks like JB is going to miss qualifying!?

yup

but it looks like the sauber miracle workers have managed to get nasr's car pretty much ready to run in Q1

[truefan72]

wow Q1 shockers

fingers crossed that the lotus cars are for real!

[N4D13]

All set for a fun charge tomorrow with Vettel and Massa starting far back. I guess Alonso will be handing out grapes in Ferrari's and Williams' garages after quali for sparing him the humiliation of being knocked out in Q1.

[The Black Knight]

why Maldonado?
Its a bit tiring about how people take a shot at him constantly. Unless he does something wrong, lets give the guy a break

As to the button incident. I fully agree, and what is even more annoying is that there was a crane right there to lift it over the barrier

Maldonado will always be a donkey no matter what.

Delighted to see Massa out. Serves him right for his double standard Verstappen comments.

[kfzmeister]

Nobody going to beat HAM tomorrow! If he owns a track, it's Montreal.

[N4D13]

Wow, either something didn't work on Rosberg's car or he's been a really sore loser. That "garbage" quote was harsh.

[truefan72]

I wonder if some of those folks who criticized hamilton for being grumpy after the monaco race will now chastise rosberg for his grumpiness after qualy.
My guess....crickets

Anyway, it was a decent qualy and i am hoping that the 2 lotus score some very high points tomorrow.
My FGP certainly would need them

[truefan72]

Delighted to see Massa out. Serves him right for his double standard Verstappen comments.

that we can agree on

[truefan72]

Wow, either something didn't work on Rosberg's car or he's been a really sore loser. That "garbage" quote was harsh.

I stand corrected lol. ;)

[N4D13]

I wonder if some of those folks who criticized hamilton for being grumpy after the monaco race will now chastise rosberg for his grumpiness after qualy.
My guess....crickets

Anyway, it was a decent qualy and i am hoping that the 2 lotus score some very high points tomorrow.
My FGP certainly would need them
Great timing! :p

[Tazio]

Missed quali, looks like it was very tight between 10-14?!

[Nitrodaze]

Just for the record Marciano and Ali were in different eras, as was Tyson. In the USA in order to see "The Rumble in the Jungle" (Ali vs Foreman 1974) you had to go to a theatre or arena to watch it on closed circuit TV (before cable). I saw it live at the San Diego Sports Arena, for about $10 a seat. But since than it has become much more expensive. In the early 60s the fighters all fought 3 times a year, even the heavyweights, so you had a good idea of how they stacked up against each other. However Boxing is a different kettle of fish than auto racing, and I think it is not an appropriate comparison.
I hear you, but Rumble in the jungle is not representative of the situation either. The technology of the time and the telecommunication challenge of televising the fight was somewhat particular. It was a model that is akin more to pay per view than your normal fights of the time.
At the end of the day it is about the show, be it an individual event or a team event as in F1. Accessibility of the show to the masses is important to the wider appeal of the achievement of the cream of the sport that are the champions. My point is, when the show moves into an exclusive accessibility situation, exposed to a few, it loses it wider appeal and as a result respect falls as a consequence. The broader recognition of the cream of the sport as in boxing is quite dramatically reduced. The broader interest drops as a consequence as well.

A larger number of people across the globe can name most of the drivers in the current season. Not alot of people can tell you of the boxers in recent time. Which is sad as the social banter of boxing has moved on to other sports; football, baseball car racing etc everything other than boxing.

[Tazio]

I hear you, but Rumble in the jungle is not representative of the situation either. The technology of the time and the telecommunication challenge of televising the fight was somewhat particular. It was a model that is akin more to pay per view than your normal fights of the time.
At the end of the day it is about the show, be it an individual event or a team event as in F1. Accessibility of the show to the masses is important to the wider appeal of the achievement of the cream of the sport that are the champions. My point is, when the show moves into an exclusive accessibility situation, exposed to a few, it loses it wider appeal and as a result respect falls as a consequence. The broader recognition of the cream of the sport as in boxing is quite dramatically reduced. The broader interest drops as a consequence as well.

A larger number of people across the globe can name most of the drivers in the current season. Not alot of people can tell you of the boxers in recent time. Which is sad as the social banter of boxing has moved on to other sports; football, baseball car racing etc everything other than boxing. Well yes it is sad, but Boxing has quite a bit of competition in pugilism (UFC and the like), and really is another sport imo, with events that are made for pay TV. On F1 there has never ever been anything close to all races being broadcast free, and live in the USA. It was easier to watch when SpeedTV broadcasted it, as they would broadcast all practices, quali, and the races. Since it has gone to NBC the coverage is much worse than it was with Speed with many more commercials :mad:

[truefan72]

back in the day before the interwebs were good, i was forced to watch on speed.
I enjoyed the coverage somewhat as i thought the crew were very entertaining.
I liked the fact that they at least showed FP2 and qualy.
But as soon as fox bought speed, the commercials during the races were too long and too often we would come back from a commercial and something important had happened.
I remember when ABC introduced side by side and always wondered why Speed never went that route.
Then the channel decided to go all nascar all the time and moved some of the best races to fox which never bothered with pre-race build up and couldn't even bother to show post race stuff either.

then there was NBC sports that promised more coverage and better viewing. And failed on all fronts.
I watch all my races online, either with sky sports or viasat( and my app commentary)
I've given up on the american broadcast.

[Nitrodaze]

back in the day before the interwebs were good, i was forced to watch on speed.
I enjoyed the coverage somewhat as i thought the crew were very entertaining.
I liked the fact that they at least showed FP2 and qualy.
But as soon as fox bought speed, the commercials during the races were too long and too often we would come back from a commercial and something important had happened.
I remember when ABC introduced side by side and always wondered why Speed never went that route.
Then the channel decided to go all nascar all the time and moved some of the best races to fox which never bothered with pre-race build up and couldn't even bother to show post race stuff either.

then there was NBC sports that promised more coverage and better viewing. And failed on all fronts.
I watch all my races online, either with sky sports or viasat( and my app commentary)
I've given up on the american broadcast.
In recent times it has become too expensive for terrestial tv broadcasters to air F1. This is evident across the globe as the quality of the F1 broadcast has dropped dramatically. I have to say that the BBC is doing a great job of making the most of a bad situation. The one hour highlights appear to be contractual rather than broadcasters being nonchalant about it.
Even web broadcastIng is somewhat curtailed by the contract, thankfully it appears not to have affected live radio broadcasts.
I am not sure where the problem is stemming from, but l think co-operation between incumbent TV stations could go a long way to solving this problem. Pay per view channels like sky offer a great coverage of all aspects of the race but not everyone can afford it.

[Mia 01]

So far, so good!

[Nitrodaze]

With these talks about poor coverage, expensive tickets, future of F1 and related topics such as spicing up the show with refulling. And gross discontent of the smaller teams as they struggle financially year in year out. I think it is a good time to take stock of the presidency of the current FIA president.
Six years on, what is you view of this term of presidency? Some of the observations picked are as follows:-

1. Some think the style of the presidency seem to lean towards an elitist approach where only the big teams have a say in anything.
2. The chatter is that the financial issue stems from the F1 rights holder but not helped by the elitist style of the presidency and the not so warm relationship between the FIA president and Ecclestone. A better relationship could well have influenced a better deal for smaller teams.
3. The car designs have been over regulated and has not helped reduce cost as was the main objective. Smaller teams are still financially curtailed from achieving a competitive car at low budgets. And bigger teams are driven to spend more to attain small gains in performance.
4. Looking at the plight of the Manor team over last year and their very courageous and impressive effort to keep their place in F1. And watching the Haas team preparing to enter F1, it is apparent that it is as difficult as ever for new teams to enter F1. And the playing field is financially tenuous at best for these new team to survive up to and past 3 years.
5. The driver are like machine operators rather than racers as they drive within parameters set by regulation.
6. The single tyre provider model and the marginal tyre approach has not helped the cost saving objective. Marginal tyres have introduce some level of excitement. But at the price of a somewhat conservation racing; of Tyre preservation.
7. The artificial gizmos like Energy Recovery System and DRS have they contributed to the the excitement of racing and a great idea but what do you think in relation to cost? I like these Hybrid cars in modern F1.
8. The smaller engine seem to have worked and the objective of reducing fuel consumption seem evident and a great achievement by the FIA. Some complain about the lower noise of the engine, l personally can get use to it being slightly quieter. A small price to pay for cost saving l think.
9. Some say the car has become too easy to drive, other say it has become too safe. I have mixed feelings about these aspects, particularly the safety aspect. Alot of work has gone into ensuring that drivers are able to walk away from the sort of crash that Vesterpen had at Monaco. It would be unwise to undo it.

What are your views?

[steveaki13]

Hi Guuyyys

I have not been around for any of the weekend, but I am here now for the race.

Is it going to be a crazy Canada race?

[N4D13]

Hi Guuyyys

I have not been around for any of the weekend, but I am here now for the race.

Is it going to be a crazy Canada race?
Vettel and Massa are starting near the back of the grid. I don't know about crazy, but this is most likely going to be fun.

[Tazio]

'Sup Boyz ? :angel:

[steveaki13]

Not a great start to the race. DRS is easy. Pretty dull for me.

Seb and Felipe should end 5th & 6th.

[rjbetty]

Yo Tazio, it's rj comin from the top corner of his screen

I might actually be awake for this race, but am real snoozy...

Hope it's a thriller or I might drop off. /:

[Tazio]

I'm a little bored with the race myself rj. I could doze off myself!

[rjbetty]

Not a great start to the race. DRS is easy. Pretty dull for me.

Seb and Felipe should end 5th & 6th.

What has it started?!! I'[d better tune in already! :o

[rjbetty]

I'm a little bored with the race myself rj. I could doze off myself!

Wake me up after the race :p

[steveaki13]

It has RJ

Lap 24 not one retirement. Not like the old days. :(

[N4D13]

Oh dear, I couldn't understand all of what Alonso said, but that was one long rant.

[steveaki13]

He said he did not want to save fuel and was fed up driving round looking like an amateur :p


Kimi......... :eek:

[Nitrodaze]

Go williams go

[rjbetty]

It has RJ

Lap 24 not one retirement. Not like the old days. :(


Oh well, welcome back to 2013! I guess Bernie and the tgeam bosses love this :D Shall we all just watch a rerun of the 2011 race or something instead?

[steveaki13]

2001? 22 starters and only 8 finishers?

[Tazio]

Kim donkey ;)

[steveaki13]

Nico realing Lewis in.....

Championship over? Maybe not

[N4D13]

Nico realing Lewis in.....

Championship over? Maybe not
He appears to be backing off already. Don't let a fight for the race win distract you from a nice borefest.

[rjbetty]

I was sure the race started at 8pm UK time...

I'm loving this gripping strategic battle. So good to not have any of that racing stuff get in the way. :D

Wonder how the Mercs tyre temperatures are getting on.

[Tazio]

NICO getting after the Boss! :eek:

[gm99]

Oh dear, another Alonso retirement...

[veeten]

and the troubles continue for Macca... into the pits, and backing into the garage. :(

[N4D13]

I'm impressed by how Huelkenberg going in the wrong direction in the chicane without knowing whether anyone was coming deserves "no further action". I'd need a replay, but I'm fairly sure someone was close behind.

[veeten]

a little too deep into that chicane, Nico...

[steveaki13]

Grosjean pulling in front of Stevens. Whoops

[rjbetty]

Yes Hamilton should get a penalty for that!

Maldonado might get points today and Rosberg might overtake Lewis for the win!

I'd much rather this be about strategy though :D

[veeten]

Hulk's been cleared... "no further action"... :)

[truefan72]

thank you grosjean, thank you for ruining my FGP points!
SMH

[veeten]

Romain not so lucky... :s

[rjbetty]

thank you grosjean, thank you for ruining my FGP points!
SMH

He'll be my donkey today, blaming Stevens too.

[N4D13]

Romain not so lucky... :s
I'd say that was hardly a matter of luck. I'm surprised he got away with simply +5s after such a bone-headed move.

[veeten]

Squeeze him Maldo, squeeze him... :p

[truefan72]

these dumb marshals need to stop waving blue flags wrongly

[N4D13]

Impressive Macca, way to go. Now THEY are my donkeys of this GP.

Seriously, I expected them to get better and sort their gremlins out sooner rather than later, but that car is simply a piece of junk.

[steveaki13]

Blue flags everywhere :confused:

Mclaren really suck :mad::rolleyes:

[veeten]

Impressive Macca, way to go. Now THEY are my donkeys of this GP.

Seriously, I expected them to get better and sort their gremlins out sooner rather than later, but that car is simply a piece of junk.

more like "Donkeys of the Season" at this point. Wouldn't blame Alo if he just blew his stack for the whole paddock to see.

The damned thing's just a POS, plain & simple. Scrap it and start over.

[N4D13]

more like "Donkeys of the Season" at this point. Wouldn't blame Alo if he just blew his stack for the whole paddock to see.

The damned thing's just a POS, plain & simple. Scrap it and start over.
He might as well do that. McLaren have hired two world champions and given them a car that has finished six out of fourteen possible races...

[dj_bytedisaster]

LOL @ Merc

Lewis gets complete status update about Rosberg's fuel and brake status, Rosberg asks the same: "Can't comment, Nico"

:rofl:

[N4D13]

LOL @ Merc

Lewis gets complete status update about Rosberg's fuel and brake status, Rosberg asks: "Can't comment, Nico"

:rofl:
By the way, the Spanish commentators are noting that the messages given to Hamilton about how much to lift-and-coast might be driving coaching and consequently illegal. I'm not sure Merc would screw up with that, though...

[AndyL]

By the way, the Spanish commentators are noting that the messages given to Hamilton about how much to lift-and-coast might be driving coaching and consequently illegal. I'm not sure Merc would screw up with that, though...

Well someone at Mercedes has got it wrong about the coaching rules. Nico's engineer told Nico he couldn't say how the other car was doing on fuel; but earlier didn't Lewis' engineer tell Lewis that Nico was OK on fuel but worse on brakes?

[veeten]

Ok, why are those two laughing?....

[AndyL]

I was sure the race started at 8pm UK time...

Should have read post #1 ;)

[veeten]

Oh, this podium's going to be real interesting....

[rjbetty]

LOL @ Merc

Lewis gets complete status update about Rosberg's fuel and brake status, Rosberg asks the same: "Can't comment, Nico"

:rofl:

Yes it would be ironic if Lewis were to win with radio help given how much that ghas helped Rosberg learn how to drive as fast as Lewis.

Hopefully there will be no penalty as it would be unfair seeing Sneako Rosberg got away with Monaco last year. :)


Aww I'm being naughty today...

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well someone at Mercedes has got it wrong about the coaching rules. Nico's engineer told Nico he couldn't say how the other car was doing on fuel; but earlier didn't Lewis' engineer tell Lewis that Nico was OK on fuel but worse on brakes?

According to Sky Germany, Merc might have been reprimanded for coaching Lewis illegally, that's why Rosberg's engineer was so tight-lipped to avoid a repeat offence.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Yes it would be ironic if Lewis were to win with radio help given how much that ghas helped Rosberg learn how to drive as fast as Lewis.

Hopefully there will be no penalty as it would be unfair seeing Sneako Rosberg got away with Monaco last year. :)

Someone appears to be a bit bitter, methinks...

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Bottas gets a good squirt from his champagne bottle!!!

[rjbetty]

Someone appears to be a bit bitter, methinks...

Nah I'm not. It turned out well tlast year, plus this race too. Sorry Lewis didn't lose today. :waves:

*Well maybe a bit, understandably about that Monaco thing. Though I'm more angry at Warwick, Surtees and Stewart for their behaviour after the event. But most of all Keke Rosberg - I have James Allen's M.Schumacher book and on the cover is a quote from Keke "He's a cheap cheat. Should be banned etc" - He changed his tune. :)

[Mia 01]

I Think it´s obvious that Lewis is Nr.1 in the team. He gets all the favours.

[Nitrodaze]

"He hit me" cried Romain
Just before the 5 points penalty. What a pr**k

[rjbetty]

I Think it´s obvious that Lewis is Nr.1 in the team. He gets all the favours.

It's more likely that he's simply better than Nico Rosberg, hence why he wins more..

[Nitrodaze]

I have to say, l am really happy for Bottas and Williams getting back onto the podium again and beating the Ferrari's for a change. I am not sure what happen there to Kimi that caused him to spin. It didn't look like driver error, l think he was saying the KERS kicked in too early or something. It was very unluck for Kimi to miss out on his 1st podium of the season.

Williams seem to be not quite on par with the Ferrari. There is work to be done to take full advantage of the Mercedes engine in the car. Also, they seem also be a shade behind the Ferrari on dynamic race strategy during race time which Ferrari is clearly better at. Thats why Vettel finish 5th and Masss 6th after leading Vettel for quite some time.

But a great weekend for williams. Congratulation chaps.

[dj_bytedisaster]

It was very unluck for Kimi to miss out on his 1st podium of the season.

Except that he was second in Bahrain ;)

[Nitrodaze]

Except that he was second in Bahrain ;)

I forgot that one. Still a bummer for kimi tho

[dj_bytedisaster]

I forgot that one. Still a bummer for kimi tho

Well, he can't really blame anyone but himself, can he? His team mate started 18th, had a botched pitstop and still finished only eight seconds behind him, driving faster laps on soft tyres than Kimi did on his fresher supersofts. He was kicked into the middle of last week this weekend.

[N. Jones]

I love this track and need to visit it one day.

You know, I don't remember him spinning there last year.
I was waiting for someone to hit the Wall but they never did. Oh well, I'll always have Jarno Trulli's Toyota brakes Exploding at the end of the long straight!

What were we talking about?

[N. Jones]

I know one thing - DRS needs to go.
A second thing - the large rear wings need to return. The idea that the cars need to be slowed down needs to go as well.

If these cars weren't so dependent on aero we would more fighting on track.

[Mekola]

Agree it was a great day for Bottas and Williams.

[Nitrodaze]

I think Massa drove well this weekend, the race strategy let him down abit l think. The MotR is definitely Vettel. A great recovery to 5th, a true drive of a champion. I hope Kimi has a change of fortune soon because he is looking 2nd rate compared to Vettel so far. We all know what a fast driver he is when in the zone. I really hope the ICEMAN returns soon.

[zako85]

I think Massa drove well this weekend, the race strategy let him down abit l think. The MotR is definitely Vettel. A great recovery to 5th, a true drive of a champion. I hope Kimi has a change of fortune soon because he is looking 2nd rate compared to Vettel so far. We all know what a fast driver he is when in the zone. I really hope the ICEMAN returns soon.

Vettel did well, but he seemed to struggle behind Hulkenberg, and I felt a bit disappointed how he tried to execute the pass on Hulkenberg, nearly causing a collision. Maybe I am wrong on this one, since no one seems to be bringing this up.

[zako85]

This was slightly disappointing race for Ferrari because they seemingly collectively gave away the 3-4 finish. On the bright side, they probably have collected enough data on their latest engine mods in order to come back stronger in Austria.

[The Black Knight]

I think Massa drove well this weekend, the race strategy let him down abit l think. The MotR is definitely Vettel. A great recovery to 5th, a true drive of a champion. I hope Kimi has a change of fortune soon because he is looking 2nd rate compared to Vettel so far. We all know what a fast driver he is when in the zone. I really hope the ICEMAN returns soon.

I dunno, I think Kimi is overrated to be honest. I don't think he is up there with the cream of the crop like Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso. I don't rate Vettel as good as Hamilton or Alonso but he is close enough. He has had his ass handed to him by both Alonso and Vettel now anyway.

[journeyman racer]

I know one thing - DRS needs to go.
A second thing - the large rear wings need to return. The idea that the cars need to be slowed down needs to go as well.

If these cars weren't so dependent on aero we would more fighting on track.
Large rear wings need to return, and there'd be more on track fighting if the cars weren't so aero dependent?

The larger wings would make the cars more aero dependent.



The idea that the cars need to be slowed down needs to go as well.
How fast do they have to go?

In theory. The faster they can go, the more processional the racing will be.

[Tazio]

I dunno, I think Kimi is overrated to be honest. I don't think he is up there with the cream of the crop like Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso. I don't rate Vettel as good as Hamilton or Alonso but he is close enough. He has had his ass handed to him by both Alonso and Vettel now anyway.Kimi is a good solid driver but nothing really special anymore. I do like his nonchalant attitude during the competition, and am surprised, TBH that their aren't more drivers that can take things in stride (at least outwardly) as he does. But keeping an even keel is what I expect, not some unique ability. Kimi is easy to like in this respect, and that attitude is appreciated at least by me.

[Nitrodaze]

Kimi is a great driver when he is in the zone. I think being out of F1 as long as he did had some inherent effect on his performance. I personally would not read too much into his pairing with Alonso. It would always be difficult to beat Alonso in a car that he [Alonso] spent a few seasons influencing to his driving still. With that said, He [Kimi] has no excuse this season as he has had more input into this year's car. I am not so sure whether that means much because he is suffering more than Vettel who seems better attuned to the ferrari than Kimi. The pattern is not that different to the Vettels pairing with Webber that struggled to get the tyres working in the Red Bull; while Vettel did not and went on to win 4 world championships.

[Nitrodaze]

The stewards for this Canada race was great for a change. Some stewards would have penalized Vettel for the move that made the Hulk spin. I did enjoy Massa's overtake of the Sauber of Nasr. How close he got! I am sure they must have touched slightly. The rookie did well to keep it together under pressure. I am sure the Steward was a top notch racer in his time. As he saw finer details that distinguish racing from malice or stupidity and made the race more enjoyable. The Monaco steward would have dished out a penalty to Vettel for Hulk's spin.

[The Black Knight]

Kimi is a great driver when he is in the zone. I think being out of F1 as long as he did had some inherent effect on his performance. I personally would not read too much into his pairing with Alonso. It would always be difficult to beat Alonso in a car that he [Alonso] spent a few seasons influencing to his driving still. With that said, He [Kimi] has no excuse this season as he has had more input into this year's car. I am not so sure whether that means much because he is suffering more than Vettel who seems better attuned to the ferrari than Kimi. The pattern is not that different to the Vettels pairing with Webber that struggled to get the tyres working in the Red Bull; while Vettel did not and went on to win 4 world championships.

This years Ferrari car was built around Kimi, it was built for him and still can't beat his teammate. They spent months at it changing things around to suit his driving style. He is a good solid driver when in the zone but applying the word "great" to him is something that I could definitely not concur with. Maybe ten years ago before he left McLaren we could apply that to him but I don't think he has been the same driver since he left McLaren (even though he won a WDC since) and I don't think his two years out of the business has affected him at all, given his comeback year was actually quite impressive.

[The Black Knight]

Kimi is a good solid driver but nothing really special anymore. I do like his nonchalant attitude during the competition, and am surprised, TBH that their aren't more drivers that can take things in stride (at least outwardly) as he does. But keeping an even keel is what I expect, not some unique ability. Kimi is easy to like in this respect, and that attitude is appreciated at least by me.

I do respect Kimi's attitude but really it's the driving done on track that interests me the most and really a good solid just about sums him up now unfortunately. He was a great driver back in the McLaren days but I don't think he has been the same since he left as I said in my above post as well.

[Nitrodaze]

This years Ferrari car was built around Kimi, it was built for him and still can't beat his teammate. They spent months at it changing things around to suit his driving style. He is a good solid driver when in the zone but applying the word "great" to him is something that I could definitely not concur with. Maybe ten years ago before he left McLaren we could apply that to him but I don't think he has been the same driver since he left McLaren (even though he won a WDC since) and I don't think his two years out of the business has affected him at all, given his comeback year was actually quite impressive.

Fair comment, in this business you are as good as your last season. Kimi needs to get is finger out if he wants to keep his drive at ferrari next year. I am sure ferrari are eyeing Bottas or possibly Ricciado. Ferrari can smell the blood, they know they can reel in Mercedes and they know mercedes are very shaky under pressure. There is more reason for them to change their driver lineup for a more hungrier and aggressive driver pairing. Kimi just doesn't seem hungry for success enough at the moment. I hope that would change at the next race. hence l would agree with you but with some reservation. We are talking about the iceman here, he may turn up to the race next time round.

[Big Ben]

I used to think a lot of Kimi but I think I really over-rated him. he has been beaten by too many team mates by now.

[Nem14]

This hits the nail squarely on the head:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-it-s-time-to-sort-out-the-dog-and-pony-show

[Hawkmoon]

The stewards for this Canada race was great for a change. Some stewards would have penalized Vettel for the move that made the Hulk spin. I did enjoy Massa's overtake of the Sauber of Nasr. How close he got! I am sure they must have touched slightly. The rookie did well to keep it together under pressure. I am sure the Steward was a top notch racer in his time. As he saw finer details that distinguish racing from malice or stupidity and made the race more enjoyable. The Monaco steward would have dished out a penalty to Vettel for Hulk's spin.

The ex-driver steward was Alan Jones, the 1980 WDC. He's a fairly no-nonsense guy it would seem. I don't think much of him as a commentator (on Australia TV) but I think he can tell the difference between a stupid move and a bit of hard racing.

[Hawkmoon]

This hits the nail squarely on the head:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-it-s-time-to-sort-out-the-dog-and-pony-show

Quite a different tone to the previous Ferrari boss. I particularly agree with this part:

I love Montreal but it doesn't mean we have to come out here and carry on this dog and pony show if there is no way of attracting an audience. Without them, you've got nothing.

F1 seems to want to hide itself away behind a pay wall. Fans have little access to the teams and drivers at races because that's reserved for the people who can pay to get into the paddock. Fewer and fewer countries have access to the sport on free-to-air television because the Bernie has let the rights go to pay TV companies who can afford to pay more. Races are lost to the traditional heartland of the sport (ie. Europe) in favour of countries with no motorsport heritage but deep pockets. As a result the stands are half empty because the locals can't afford a ticket. This is to say nothing of the product on the track.

Marchionne is right. A sport is nothing without it's fans. Even if the product on the track improves it won't make much difference if people can't get easy access to it.

[jens]

I dunno, I think Kimi is overrated to be honest. I don't think he is up there with the cream of the crop like Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso. I don't rate Vettel as good as Hamilton or Alonso but he is close enough. He has had his ass handed to him by both Alonso and Vettel now anyway.

Räikkönen is like the McLaren team now.:) People wax lyrical about how they "used to be great" and how they have "lots of potential", but real life evidence suggests they are no more than mid-level competitors these days and others have stolen the show.

[Nitrodaze]

Räikkönen is like the McLaren team now.:) People wax lyrical about how they "used to be great" and how they have "lots of potential", but real life evidence suggests they are no more than mid-level competitors these days and others have stolen the show.
I would not say Mclaren was "no more than a mid-level competitor" as you put it. Ferrari has been in this position in the past and Red bull are very much suffering the same but obviously better than Mclaren.
Mclaren was the main engine customer to Mercedes. A status that ensured that they always get the lastest and greatest engine tech that Merc comes up with. Now, with Mercedes running their own F1 team, Mclaren do not enjoy that special relationship anymore as Merc would obviously reserve the cutting edge tech for their team to maintain competitive advantage over its customers.
It is quite clear that Mclaren cannot hope to become world champions in this scenario where they are competing with their engine supplier, hence it is a no brainer that they have to move to a new supplier. In this case Honda.
It is always difficult to make such a technological move, particularly to a supplier that has been out of the sport for some time. Developing the car in this scenario would always put the team down the order of the grid. Hence Mclaren's current position is quite understandable. I assure you it is not a true reflection of the potential of the team. However, what is of interest is how quickly they can recover from where they are to fighting with the sharp end of the grid. If they can do it before the end of this season, then we are set for a cracking 2016 season, where l expect to see Alonso and Button (l hope) challenging for podium positions.
The two giants involved have the resources to do it. And the old partnership with Alonso in their car, also have the potential to do something special if they can get their recovery right. Hopefully by not rushing forward under pressure to deliver but by patiently doing it right.

Mclaren are world champions, definitely not a mid level competitor.

[jens]

You Mr Nitrodaze, have perfectly proven my point.;) The hype is still there. Three years ongoing.

By the way, I didn't say WAS, I said IS. It doesn't matter, what was decades ago. Lotus was also a top team, but isn't any more.

[jens]

Hence Mclaren's current position is quite understandable.

Not really. If they were somewhere, where Red Bull currently sits, i.e 4th best team, it could perhaps be somewhat understandable. But they are last. Which is worse than Jaguar, Toyota and BAR ever were. Except BAR in 1999...

[jens]

However, what is of interest is how quickly they can recover from where they are to fighting with the sharp end of the grid. If they can do it before the end of this season, then we are set for a cracking 2016 season, where l expect to see Alonso and Button (l hope) challenging for podium positions. .

There is only one example in the last decades, where a backmarker team become a front-runner within 1 year. That was Honda/Brawn GP in 2008-2009. Honda was a backmarker in 2008. However, 2009 saw a major change in technical regulations. As far as I am aware, there are no significant changes for 2016.

Being that far down the field is a sign of serious lack of depth in the team and there is no quick recovery/fix. There is a reason, why a team is last. It means they haven't done their homework well. However, you are right being last is not a true reflection of McLaren's potential. They should be in midfield at least.:) Saying they are mid-level competitors was actually a praise to them now!

[Nitrodaze]

There is only one example in the last decades, where a backmarker team become a front-runner within 1 year. That was Honda/Brawn GP in 2008-2009. Honda was a backmarker in 2008. However, 2009 saw a major change in technical regulations. As far as I am aware, there are no significant changes for 2016.

Being that far down the field is a sign of serious lack of depth in the team and there is no quick recovery/fix. There is a reason, why a team is last. It means they haven't done their homework well. However, you are right being last is not a true reflection of McLaren's potential. They should be in midfield at least.:) Saying they are mid-level competitors was actually a praise to them now!
I take your point, there has been a major reshuffle that led up to the engine manufacture switch. Williams is a good example of regrouping from such a re-organisation and it took them a while to get back to the sharpend. And l think they are still tittering on the border of the sharpend. But Mclaren have more resources and funding than Williams, so one would expect a shorter turnaround. With that said, l agree that one season may be a big ask for Mclaren to turn things around. But it can be done within 2 seasons; and to be challenging by the 3rd season, judging by the might of Honda. Boullier has his work cut out. If he pulls it off, he would be one of the most celebrated team managers on the grid.

This raises a number of questions tho:-

1. Can Alonso wait 2 years before being able to mount another world championship campaign? Note that this gestation period is very different from Hamilton's move to Merc. Hamilton had a "top end of the midfield" 1st year at merc, 2nd year won 1st WDC for Merc. But there were other factors involved which are quite different from Mclaren's. In Hamilton-Merc 1st year, the car was already where Williams currently is. The current Mclaren is much further back compared. Merc F1 was strenghten their team approaching taking Hamilton on board while Mclaren had a major reshuffle and engine change.
2. Would Alonso have what it takes to win the WDC in 2017? Can he keep motivated to do it?


I think with all these talks about changes to F1, we are set for some sort of change that could upset the order of things. Hence it is unpredictable who would have the next technological advantage.