Mercedes strategy of the Race - Monaco

[steveaki13]

Enough said

[truefan72]

I'm really upset

[Koz]

Stewards again for Alonso penalty.

[steveaki13]

Donkey's are obviously Mercedes strategy guys.

What ever that was about.

Also Verstappen if he just misjudged Grosjeans braking.

[steveaki13]

Stewards again for Alonso penalty.

Oh yer.

This too. Joke for his penalty and even more joke for not penalizing Ricciardo.

[N4D13]

I think Mercedes' mistake is going to be the main talking point for the next few weeks and it's going to cloud the fact that the stewards have been horribly inconsistent and it's something they need to look on for the next few races. First they give a penalty to Alonso for what was pretty much a racing incident in which he was side by side with Huelkenberg (in fact, Alo said that he would have expected Nico to be penalized). And then Ricciardo punts Kimi when he was clearly behind him and gets no penalty whatsoever. Just try to imagine this kind of thing happening on a battle for the win and try to imagine the reactions in this forum.

[steveaki13]

I agree fully N4D13

I am old school and would actually not give a penalty for either, but without doubt if you give Alonso one (crazy) then Danny boy needs a more severe one.

[Koz]

I think Mercedes' mistake is going to be the main talking point for the next few weeks and it's going to cloud the fact that the stewards have been horribly inconsistent and it's something they need to look on for the next few races.

No one will look at it. This happens every few races and it seems like it will keep happening. :(

[N4D13]

No one will look at it. This happens every few races and it seems like it will keep happening. :(
True. In my case it was only easier to notice because this and of course Mercedes' strategy are the only things that happened at all during the race.

[Mekola]

I have the feeling that Mercedes GP did this "error" in purpose. Some shenanigans that are occult to us were enforced by their decision.

[Koz]

I have the feeling that Mercedes GP did this "error" in purpose. Some shenanigans that are occult to us were enforced by their decision.

Are you DJ's Lewis-loving-alter-ego? :D

[rjbetty]

My Podium

1.Toto Wolff for seeming to suggest it was Hamilton's fault! WTF!
I've never trusted that guy, and he has the most appropriate surname going.

2.Stewards

3.Williams - Scored no points while McLaren did. Thanks for doing a McLaren on me in FGP guys!


I will let Verstappen off as this is the first foot he's put wrong I can see, while Sato and Maldonado have been allowed to stick around for years.

[kfzmeister]

I will let Verstappen off as this is the first foot he's put wrong I can see, while Sato and Maldonado have been allowed to stick around for years.

Grosjean clearly brake checked him!

[rjbetty]

Are you DJ's Lewis-loving-alter-ego? :D

I haven't seen dj for a while come to think of it. Wonder if he's ok and that. I miss his fights with Garry Walker - pure popcorn material :D

[Mia 01]

Daniel R. and the stewards, he deserved a punishment for that move on Kimi.

[The Black Knight]

There can be only donkey this race - Mercedes. What a monumental fuck up!

Maldonado doesn't get the donkey award for once.

[steveaki13]

I miss his fights with Garry Walker - pure popcorn material :D

Imagine if they were the same guy just arguing amongst himself :rotflmao:

[Tazio]

Inexplicable, and completely irrational move by Mercedes. This is much more of a travesty than what happened in last years race. What in the freakin' $#^%$%^^ was Hamilton's engineer thinking?
As for the penalties; in the end it didn't make any difference for Fred, but it did for Kimi, I wonder which race the stewards were actually watching. Fred bumps a car in a clusterf*** that is the first turn at Monaco, and Danny boy did the same thing only more egregiously (further back) and gets a free pass? I guess it was because Fred's contact caused an accident and Danny's didn't, go figure?? :confused:

[Warriwa]

I am flabbergasted at Mercedes. EVEN I know, as an armchair fan, that Monaco is about track position, not tyres. Especially in a car as dominant as the Merc and especially with only ten laps remaining. Who did they think was going to overtake Lewis once the safety car pulled in? Is it possible this is an error? This will screw with Lewis' mind imo. He will be thinking the last two Monaco GPs should have been mine mine mine and I've been cheated. Can he overcome this like last year or will he implode I wonder?

[Storm]

Oh yer.

This too. Joke for his penalty and even more joke for not penalizing Ricciardo.

It was almost a copy of the Alonso thing so yea !


as for Merc, do we need a donkey of the race thread this time? Nope.

[steveaki13]

One circuit you don't change tyres for a late sprint at is Monaco.

Hamilton actually said, he saw on a big screen the Mercedes pit crew out in the pitlane and assumed the others had pitted or would pit so didn't argue when he was called in.

Mistakes all round

[steveaki13]

as for Merc, do we need a donkey of the race thread this time? Nope.

Nope. Thats why we have a Mercedes strategy of the race thread :D

[Tazio]

I haven't seen dj for a while come to think of it. Wonder if he's ok and that. I miss his fights with Garry Walker - pure popcorn material :D
Be careful what you wish for, dj chirped in last race, he'll be here directly :)

[N. Jones]

Mercedes screwed the pooch at this race.

[Jag_Warrior]

:hot: :fasttalk: :hmh: :hmph: :\\


If that wasn't the mother (and father) of all f### ups, I don't know what is.

[Mintexmemory]

Looks like season interest management to me. Any coincidence they pull this stunt once they have successfully locked LH in for 3 years?

[Robinho]

Easiest decision of the year, what a stuff up.

Sent from my 0PJA10 using Tapatalk

[N4D13]

At least two people have said that this might have been a deliberate call by Mercedes, so I'll just say this. I think these suggestions are absolutely ridiculous - this kind of call takes the light out of Mercedes winning races comfortably ahead of the opposition and makes them look like complete clowns, even if the fact remains they still had the fastest car and they put both cars on the podium. No one with a remotely sane state of mind would ever make this call when your employer also happens to sell road cars and relies on winning F1 races for advertising.

[Tazio]

:stareup: I'm going on record here and saying that I was just clowning around.....it's fun. :kiss: ;)

[steveaki13]

I agree N4D13

Some people completely over react and have Flavio in their minds at all times.

It was a terrible mistake and call and the team will have hell over the next week or so.

Lewis and his fans need to accept stuff happens in sport and thats why we watch it. I am a Hammy fan but just accept he deserved the win, but didn't get it. He is more than quick enough to win many more races and the championship.

[airshifter]

Really no need for the thread to determine the real donkey. It's all about the runner up donkeys at this point!


The penalty on Alonso was a joke. The bump Ricciardo made on Kimi was forced by Ricciardo and didn't get a penalty. From the shots I saw Fred had nowhere else to go and barely got loose, and he got nailed for it.

What happened with RB making Ricciardo give the position back to Kvyat? Did Daniel bump both cars the way he hit Kimi?

[steveaki13]

Really no need for the thread to determine the real donkey. It's all about the runner up donkeys at this point!


The penalty on Alonso was a joke. The bump Ricciardo made on Kimi was forced by Ricciardo and didn't get a penalty. From the shots I saw Fred had nowhere else to go and barely got loose, and he got nailed for it.

What happened with RB making Ricciardo give the position back to Kvyat? Did Daniel bump both cars the way he hit Kimi?

I agree Daniel should have had a penalty.

The team ordered Kyvat to let the faster tyred Ricciardo past into 4th and try and get onto the podium. When he couldn't he let Kyvat back past on the last lap. :)

[Jag_Warrior]

Since this isn't the first time that Mercedes' superior car & engine combo hasn't been able to overcome some foolishness within the AMG team... Mercedes replaced Ross Brawn with the little dog from the Wizard of Oz why exactly??? I wonder if Dieter Zetsche is asking that question right now?

[The Black Knight]

Got to add to my last post after re watching the Max and Grosjean crash. I'm going to nominate Grosjean for donkey number two of the race for clearly brake testing Max. It's not a road car where if you're the guy behind you defacto at fault. It's clear from the video that Grosjean braked too early and that's what caused the crash. I don't blame Max for that one. Another bad decision by the Stewards.

It's a real pity that the Stewards side with what the public really expect to happen versus what actually does. The data will show Grosjean braking earlier and it's also visually clear.

[steveaki13]

I thought that from the start.

Grosjean seemed to slow way before the corner.

Only the Manors were braking that early.

[N4D13]

By the way, with all the fuss about Merc's strategy and the stewards' questionable decisionmaking, no one has mentioned Toro Rosso's disastrous pitstop.

[donKey jote]

Really no need for the thread to determine the real donkey. It's all about the runner up donkeys at this point!


The penalty on Alonso was a joke. The bump Ricciardo made on Kimi was forced by Ricciardo and didn't get a penalty. From the shots I saw Fred had nowhere else to go and barely got loose, and he got nailed for it.

What happened with RB making Ricciardo give the position back to Kvyat? Did Daniel bump both cars the way he hit Kimi?
big donkey goes to the German TV biased coverage... Alonso well deserved it (against our poor hulk ;)), but Ric vs Kimi was "meh, these things happen in Monaco when you've nowhere to go"...
And I thought Spanish TV were bad, but these were unbelievable! :laugh:

[Tazio]

The penalty on Alonso was a joke. The bump Ricciardo made on Kimi was forced by Ricciardo and didn't get a penalty. From the shots I saw Fred had nowhere else to go and barely got loose, and he got nailed for it.


The stewards really sucked this race, big surprise. As I said earlier I think Freddy got a penalty for being responsible for an accident, but unless they saw something that I didn't it is a fairly retarded call to make for a first turn of the race incident in the middle of the pack. It is annoying to me, not because it was Fred, but because they are trying to discourage bold maneuvers on a track like Monaco. It reminds me of a race I rewatched a while back, and I don't recall which one it was precisely, but it was very early in Fernando's carrer. I believe it was 2003 or 2004, and it was early in the season. Fred did what Renault did very well back when launch control was abolished, he got a cracking start, and a very bold one, something that he along with a couple other guys in the current field have done very well throughout their careers, and I remember Martin Brundle commenting that that kind of risk taking is irresponsible, and something he needs to get over or he won't last in F1 or something to that effect. Boy did Brundle dial a wrong number on that one. At any rate the penalty was a minor one and if he had been able to finnish the race all it would have done was cause him one position, and a chance to maybe fight for one more. It certainly wasn't Hulk's fault, and he ended up going to the back of the field. I think this was a consideration by the stewards, and it really shouldn't be. It was simply a first lap first corner racing incident.

[anfield5]

Would have been a fun atmosphere at Mercedes afterwards. Hamiltwat, sulks like a toddler any time he doen't win, so this would have been priceless.

[Jag_Warrior]

Would have been a fun atmosphere at Mercedes afterwards. Hamiltwat, sulks like a toddler any time he doen't win, so this would have been priceless.

Unlike Brittany, I guess he's just not used to it. :)

[Tazio]

big donkey goes to the German TV biased coverage... Alonso well deserved it (against our poor hulk ;)), but Ric vs Kimi was "meh, these things happen in Monaco when you've nowhere to go"...
And I thought Spanish TV were bad, but these were unbelievable! :laugh:
Donkie :stareup: I don't know from German TV or Spanish TV, and I do know that Mercedes is every bit an English team as they are a German one But did you see how easily Red Bull got Danny boy past Danny K, because he had a legit shot at getting on the podium, and then how easily they put it right on the last lap. Mercedes is by far the best car out there, but they remind me of the totally dysfunctional family that lives down the street! :p:

[longisland]

Maybe this is Mercedes' pay back to Nico for holding position 2 years ago in Malaysia. So Maldonado is spared for this race?

[Mark]

Can only assume that with the safety car being out Merc assumed that they could get Hammy into the pits and back out in the lead? They just got their sums badly wrong.

[Ranger]

Can only assume that with the safety car being out Merc assumed that they could get Hammy into the pits and back out in the lead? They just got their sums badly wrong.

They probably calculated the gap before the Virtual Safety car and didn't account for any time loss from there until the pit-stop.

This was the biggest preventable team blunder I've seen in a while.

All things considered I thought Hamilton handled it pretty well.

[Mia 01]

It could decide the WDC in the end, but, it´s not likely.

[Nitrodaze]

I am finding it hard to believe they made an error. I think they wanted the result. With commentators speechless that they brought Lewis in from what seemed like a safe win position to change tyres with 10 laps to go, seemed an unbelievable error, especially for a meticulous team like mercedes. Hamilton was in no real threat from Vettel, especially if Vettel had pitted for fresh tyres which would have put him a few places back from 2nd position, probably behind Kvyat or Kimi. Overtaking being nearly impossible in Monaco between closely matched cars and the soft tyre was good to run the full race without adverse deg. So why in the world would anyone in their right mind take such a risk of pitting a car in a sure and relatively safe winning position.
There is serious doubt that this was an error.

[Mark]

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

[Nitrodaze]

I have to agree that Monaco was the worst display of stewardship seen in a long time. The punishment of Alonso was harsh and unfair, partly because they failed to punish Ricciado for a similar incident. I think they were abit heavy handed on Vesterpen for a racing incident which he was the only casualty.

The Toro Rosso team were very disappointing this weekend. They have consistently failed to deliver a good service to Vesterpen, which have cost the team and driver close to 2 digit points. Max was likely to finish in the top 6 this weekend with the right service and support. Toro Rosso are doing a really bad job of nurturing this quite obvious prodigious talent.

[Nitrodaze]

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. This would apply if evidence of capability of such magnitude of incompetence can be proven. Mercedes don't make this sort of mistakes.

[The Black Knight]

I am finding it hard to believe they made an error. I think they wanted the result. With commentators speechless that they brought Lewis in from what seemed like a safe win position to change tyres with 10 laps to go, seemed an unbelievable error, especially for a meticulous team like mercedes. Hamilton was in no real threat from Vettel, especially if Vettel had pitted for fresh tyres which would have put him a few places back from 2nd position, probably behind Kvyat or Kimi. Overtaking being nearly impossible in Monaco between closely matched cars and the soft tyre was good to run the full race without adverse deg. So why in the world would anyone in their right mind take such a risk of pitting a car in a sure and relatively safe winning position.
There is serious doubt that this was an error.

While it is easy to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon, and I'd be the first to do so if I thought there was a one, I think this was a pure simple case of complete and utter brain fart. I still can't believe what we saw. It's the worst team decision I've ever witnessed in F1.

Can anyone think of something so outrageously stupid that matches this?

As for the Steward's I'm also going to nominate them for race donkey's as there was absolutely no consistency. Alonso got a penalty that he didn't deserve, Ricciardo didn't get a penalty which he did deserve and they penalize the wrong person for the Grosjean and Verstappen crash. Something has to be done about these stupid decisions that race Steward's are making. I think there's too much pull going on in F1 anyway. It's a small world and everyone knows everyone else. If the Steward's are too thick to see what is in front of them and read the data, then they should not be empowered to make these kind of decisions. There must be a better way than what they are doing now.

[Nitrodaze]

While it is easy to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon, and I'd be the first to do so if I thought there was a one, I think this was a pure simple case of complete and utter brain fart. I still can't believe what we saw. It's the worst team decision I've ever witnessed in F1.

Can anyone think of something so outrageously stupid that matches this?

I suppose one could give Mercedes the benefit of the doubt. They obviously have a lemon on their pit wall, so one would expect to see some changes in that area at the next few races. The true impact of this error (if we can call it that) would be apparent as we approach the end of the season.

[Mark]

Lewis is still ahead so he just has to keep doing what he's doing.

[The Black Knight]

I suppose one could give Mercedes the benefit of the doubt. They obviously have a lemon on their pit wall, so one would expect to see some changes in that area at the next few races. The true impact of this error (if we can call it that) would be apparent as we approach the end of the season.

He has the beating of his teammate this season. He should easily win the title. He just needs to recuperate and gather himself for the next race. He's still in the lead of the championship so it's still his to lose as long as Mercedes don't do what they did yesterday again.

[Bagwan]

Did he hit his perfect position in the pit stop ?
If not exactly , it's his fault .

If he got it right , then it was one or more of his crew that cost him the win , as they were a second and a half slower than his previous stop .

According to Allen , it should have taken 17 seconds , and it took 18.5 or so , in and out of pit lane .


So , to his team strategists , it was still within the window where it would work , albeit scary close .

And , as it worked out , it was only about a half a second that they needed to stay ahead of both Nico and Seb .



It should have worked .

I guess it should have been communicated to Lewis that neither of his closest rivals had gone in for tires .
Had he known this , he surely wouldn't have wanted to , himself , and wouldn't have lobbied his team for new skins at all .

He needs to remember , though , that he did ask for tires , and was happy , at the time , to pit for them .
It was only when he emerged from the pits that he was struck by the fact that he was now relegated to third .

[truefan72]

Did he hit his perfect position in the pit stop ?
If not exactly , it's his fault .

If he got it right , then it was one or more of his crew that cost him the win , as they were a second and a half slower than his previous stop .

According to Allen , it should have taken 17 seconds , and it took 18.5 or so , in and out of pit lane .


So , to his team strategists , it was still within the window where it would work , albeit scary close .

And , as it worked out , it was only about a half a second that they needed to stay ahead of both Nico and Seb .



It should have worked .

I guess it should have been communicated to Lewis that neither of his closest rivals had gone in for tires .
Had he known this , he surely wouldn't have wanted to , himself , and wouldn't have lobbied his team for new skins at all .

He needs to remember , though , that he did ask for tires , and was happy , at the time , to pit for them .
It was only when he emerged from the pits that he was struck by the fact that he was now relegated to third .

here we go
1. if it took an extra 1.5 seconds in the pit then that would be down to the typical slowness of the mercedes pit crew who on more than one occasion have taken their time to change Hamilton's tires in comparison to Rosberg. But that is all a mute point.

2. every driver had something to say about their tires. They asked him about his and he gave them his assessment. He did not say it was undrinkable or that he needed to change tires but instead remarked that he would be at a disadvantage if both rosberg and vettel switched to super softs and he remained out on the older softs. That wast him saying. "Bring me in and change tires no matter what my competitors are doing." A good race engineer would have told him not to worry as both rosberg and vettel were not changing tires and that this was monoco if he pet his head down he would stay ahead and win the race easy. In fact the top 5 drivers behind him were not changing tires.

3. and that is the most important factor. The blame lies squarely with pete bonnington, his incompetent race engineer and the entire useless strategy team from mercedes. It should have been easy enough to figure out that neither rosberg nor vettel were coming in. It sohuld also have been easy to figure out that THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO PIT STOP FOR ANY REASON as well. With about an 8 lap sprint to the end in monaco with tires that just got less worn because of the SC period, nobody was going to overtake him, no matter what they had done. Furthermore. Due to his current lead, if vettel or rosberg had decided to pit they would have surely come out behind kyvatt, kimi and ricciardo. This was obvious to the rosberg side of the garage and for some strange reason, pete "useless" bonnington couldn't figure that out. I bet you $100 that rosberg engineer probably laughed off any call to bring in rosberg. Meanwhile pete bonnington, not for probably the 4 time in 2 years, allowed the bloody race strategists, to take over his side of the garage to the detriment of his driver.

4. therefore, First, would get rid of bonnington and bring in someone whose first priority is to ensure his driver's best interest and has the balls to insist on a strategy that will not harm his driver.
Second, I would get rid of the the race strategists who made the call.
Third, I would relegate toto wolf or paddy lowe to a spectator role during the GP. You can't have 5 different people trying to make decisions that Ross Brawn alone could have made.

But once again to me it really comes down to the race engineer. Rosberg has a good one who looks out for his driver. Hamilton has one that capitulates to the team and allows horrible decisions to be made. Fails to provide the driver with crucial information and offers advice that more often than not is detrimental to his driver. This cannot continue. If Hamilton knew that rosberg and vettel were not pitting then he would have easily questioned why he was to be brought in. The fact that this information was not relayed to him is probably the main reason for all the problems. No matter what the folks were telling him he would have simply said. If they are not coming in neither am I!

[Mark]

But at the same time the driver is not in a position to second guess what the team is telling him. If the team says pit he has to have the confidence that this is the right call.

How that confidence will be restored is the question now.

[anfield5]

Mistakes happen, deal with it. Merc obviously though they had enough time to get him in and out first. If I remember the call was made under VSC conditions, which would have been fine as the field was holding station and distance. When the sc came out the field were able to close up and reduce the gaps, meaning there was less time to change shoes. This is where Merc made the mistake, as soon as the sc came out they should have waved him on.

[Nitrodaze]

Mistakes happen, deal with it. Merc obviously though they had enough time to get him in and out first. If I remember the call was made under VSC conditions, which would have been fine as the field was holding station and distance. When the sc came out the field were able to close up and reduce the gaps, meaning there was less time to change shoes. This is where Merc made the mistake, as soon as the sc came out they should have waved him on.

Mistakes happen but stupidity is a different category. This one errs on plain stupidity. Pick anyone at random from the pit lane and they would definitely make the opposite call.

[Bagwan]

Nico and Seb both said it was like driving on ice , and Lewis would have been seeing a big lead fall away , and hungry guys coming up behind him for a safety car restart .
That would have made anyone uncomfortable .

He said he saw the screens showing the Merc guys out in pit lane , ready to cover a Ferrari move .
Naturally , he'd want to get tires if it looked like either or both were heading in .

It was all very logical , and it should have worked .


By the way , Truefan , I'm sure you meant "moot" and not "mute" in reference to your point #1 .
Your meaning must have been to call it insignificant , rather than silent .

While I do understand that you believe that Hamilton has been poorly treated by the team in the pits , it sounds like you see it as a conspiracy of sorts , and I'm sorry , but I don't see it .

In reference to the idea that the 1.5 seconds were moot , I certainly do not agree .
Roughly a third of that time was all he needed and he would have sailed off again into the distance while the others lumbered around on ice .


If you want to look for a conspiracy , look to race control , who tossed in the safety car when the procedure all expected was the virtual one .
It was a curious decision that cost Lewis the time that made it even close to dangerous for Lewis to pit .

[truefan72]

Nico and Seb both said it was like driving on ice , and Lewis would have been seeing a big lead fall away , and hungry guys coming up behind him for a safety car restart .
That would have made anyone uncomfortable .

He said he saw the screens showing the Merc guys out in pit lane , ready to cover a Ferrari move .
Naturally , he'd want to get tires if it looked like either or both were heading in .

It was all very logical , and it should have worked .


By the way , Truefan , I'm sure you meant "moot" and not "mute" in reference to your point #1 .
Your meaning must have been to call it insignificant , rather than silent .

While I do understand that you believe that Hamilton has been poorly treated by the team in the pits , it sounds like you see it as a conspiracy of sorts , and I'm sorry , but I don't see it .

In reference to the idea that the 1.5 seconds were moot , I certainly do not agree .
Roughly a third of that time was all he needed and he would have sailed off again into the distance while the others lumbered around on ice .


If you want to look for a conspiracy , look to race control , who tossed in the safety car when the procedure all expected was the virtual one .
It was a curious decision that cost Lewis the time that made it even close to dangerous for Lewis to pit .

Yes an error on my part i meant to say moot not mute

but i think that generally it was a ridiculous decision to pit him as it was clear the other top 5 drivers were not coming in.
given the remaining laps and his lead, it was going to be pretty much impossible for anyone to pass him.

He was covering off nobody. There was no undercut, there was zero reason to come in.

The only one saying it was like driving on ice was Vettel and that was in reference to the tires getting too cold due to the extended SC period.

Logic would dictate that the situation would be the same for all the top 3. so if it was tough on seb and nico it would be tough on hamilton, but he was in the lead, and nothing indicated that he would not build back a small advantage again for the remaining few laps. Rosberg certainly wouldn't challenge him and risk damaging both cars, so in effect he became a rear-gunner, which ironically is what vettel did for rosberg after the pitstop.

And once again, even if nico and seb came in (which they wouldn't) they would come out 3 spots further back behind kvyatt, kimi and Ricciardo, and with the superior mercedes package, Hamilton would have easily hung on to win the race while seb and nico would never have made it past those 3 ahead. Even if noco and seb somehow managed to get out ahead of those 3 they would still not find a way to get past hamilton. There was no underuct situation or passing opportunity and the 2 mercs controlled the pace throughout the race. Even with fresher tires vettel wasn't going to get past rosberg and rosberg was certainly no match for Hamilton on that day.

In the end, nobody struggled on the worn softs. Remember the super softs just did a half race distance with heavier fuel., the softs did less than that and benefited from about 6 laps where they were not being tested during the SC period.

Furthermore, the ferrari had trouble warming the tires while the mercedes, especially in hamilton's hands could get back on pace fairly quickly in the cooler temps. Which was borne out by Rosberg scampering off after the restart and within 3 laps had almost a 4 second lead. Meanwhile, vettel was left to defend his 2nd position with a faster car with fresher tires behind. And he did that easily.

All in all it was a failure of his race engineer not to inform him that nobody in the top 6 positions was pitting. It was a failure of the team to do an unnecessary pitstop, and it resulted in a a debacle. It wasn't simply an error, it was a cascading calamity of failure up and down the pitwall. There was absolutely nothing to be gained by pitting from the lead and everything to loose. and they chose the latter. I don't care about calculations, etc, or if it switched from a VSC to SC, the point remains that there should have never been a call to the pits. thus rendering the first point about the 1.5secs moot IMO.

As to conspiracy theory, of course not, but it is a fact that for whatever reason, his pitstops always seem slower than those of rosberg on average.
It shouldn't be, but it always is.

[Nitrodaze]

Nico and Seb both said it was like driving on ice , and Lewis would have been seeing a big lead fall away , and hungry guys coming up behind him for a safety car restart .
That would have made anyone uncomfortable .

He said he saw the screens showing the Merc guys out in pit lane , ready to cover a Ferrari move .
Naturally , he'd want to get tires if it looked like either or both were heading in .

It was all very logical , and it should have worked .


By the way , Truefan , I'm sure you meant "moot" and not "mute" in reference to your point #1 .
Your meaning must have been to call it insignificant , rather than silent .

While I do understand that you believe that Hamilton has been poorly treated by the team in the pits , it sounds like you see it as a conspiracy of sorts , and I'm sorry , but I don't see it .

In reference to the idea that the 1.5 seconds were moot , I certainly do not agree .
Roughly a third of that time was all he needed and he would have sailed off again into the distance while the others lumbered around on ice .


If you want to look for a conspiracy , look to race control , who tossed in the safety car when the procedure all expected was the virtual one .
It was a curious decision that cost Lewis the time that made it even close to dangerous for Lewis to pit .

It should have worked you say. The point was the risk outweighed the potential benefits because the margin for success was very tight. About half a second to spare with the hope that the pit crew don't eff up or wheel gun don't jam. Commonsense should have prevailed. There is no excuse that would make this go away. It was a EFF UP for the history books. People shall be talking about this for years to come.

[truefan72]

It should have worked you say. The point was the risk outweighed the potential benefits because the margin for success was very tight. About half a second to spare with the hope that the pit crew don't eff up or wheel gun don't jam. Commonsense should have prevailed. There is no excuse that would make this go away. It was a EFF UP for the history books. People shall be talking about this for years to come.

well said

[The Black Knight]

One final thing I want to point out on this, assuming no reliability issues, there was only one conceivable way in which Hamilton could have lost this race at time time of pitting him and that was by pitting him. Mercedes sanctioned the only action that could possible have cost Hamilton the race. I'm still astounded honestly. Surely someone's head needs to roll for this? I certainly would not be putting up with something like this were it to occur in my company. Mistakes happen but an eff up of this magnitude is completely unacceptable.

I do feel that Mercedes need to make this up to Hamilton points wise with Rosberg somehow. He lost 17 points to Rosberg today due to their incompetence. It probably won't happen and I guess come the end of the year it won't matter. This is the best I've ever seen Hamilton drive this season and I'm sure he'll continue that form onwards.

[Bagwan]

When they brought the crew into the lane , ready for a stop , there was plenty of time .
And they had a driver asking for a stop .

Even as he entered pit lane there should have been enough time to do it .


Was it reason enough to stop ? Perhaps not , but they didn't see the threat as clearly as we do now .

Lewis obviously didn't ask what was the obvious question to ask , and the pit wall didn't think to relate that neither driver behind had pitted or was likely to pit .
Lewis had seen Merc boys in the lane , and if we ask what he was thinking at the time , we might come to the conclusion that he thought that Nico was going to pit , as he hadn't had the box order .
And , being that he was sat behind the safety car , he was seeing his 25 seconds evaporate quickly .

Asking to pit was basically asking whether he still had enough time to take on new skins .
At the time , he did , if all went well .




Win and lose as a team .
They owe him nothing but his ample salary .

[Firstgear]

While I agree that it was a stupid decision, it may be to Mercedes benefit in the end:

- They ended up with a 1-3 (40 points) instead of a 1-2 (43 points). So they lost 3 constructors points. The way things are going this season that shouldn't matter.

- People aren't saying 'Mercedes is crap', they're saying 'Hamilton's race engineer is crap.' So that shouldn't really hurt Mercedes, only one of its employees.

- The headlines might read 'German driver wins 3rd consecutive Monaco GP in a Mercedes' instead of 'Hamilton wins 1st Monaco GP'. This could actually be a plus for Mercedes.

- Rosberg winning the race closed the gap between him and Hamilton by 17 points, making the drivers championship more interesting. The battle for the WDC this year will most certainly be between the two Mercedes drivers, so the longer it stays close and interesting - the better it is for Mercedes.

- Lots of headlines and people talking about Mercedes because of this.

The overall losers in all of this are Hamilton and his race engineer. The winners would be Rosberg and Mercedes. I don't think Mercedes will be upset about that.

[Tazio]

The overall losers in all of this are Hamilton and his race engineer.
You forgot to mention the Boss' die-hard fans that considered slitting their wrists, but settled for beating their wives, and kicking their :dog: ;)

[Mia 01]

People here (and there) keep talking about some "Boss". I´m sure Alonso got die hard fans, I know it for a fact, but bossen, bossen.

[Bagwan]

It was the signalling system in the Merc pit that let Lewis down after he was dropped from the jacks , according to TJ13 .


No hanging offences here .
Just dead bad luck .

Fate smacked him hard , but he's still leading , and he still got third .



As for his sulky stopping at the tunnel entrance , and his slow parking and knocking of the third sign , and his no champagne spray , I see him as still pretty fragile , in a time where until now he's been showing a reasonably serene , "in control" demeanor .

He had to know Rosberg knew he was lucky , and if he'd been listening closely , he would have exactly those words from his team-mate .
I would have been happier to see him declare how desperately stupid lucky Nico was , and that he'd better not expect that kind of gift again .

I'd rather see a declaration of the fight rather than a pout about the last battle .

[truefan72]

When they brought the crew into the lane , ready for a stop , there was plenty of time .
And they had a driver asking for a stop .


Let me correct you on this
Hamilton never asked for a stop he only explained the condition of his tires to the team, who failed to relay any proper information to him.
He was then asked to pit in a joke of a decision. He probably said the same things that vettel and rosberg, kimi, kvyatt and ricciardo relayed to the team,
the only difference is that the mercedes folks stupidly were the only ones to pit the leading car and lose the race

[Jag_Warrior]

No offense to anyone, but declaring from an armchair what someone should or should have done under those circumstances is a bit presumptuous, IMO. Looking back over my memory banks at things said and done by Mansell, Senna, Prost and Schumacher (among others), if what Lewis did on Sunday represented fragility, then he seems to be in pretty good company. Hell, I've seen drivers break down and cry before in other series, under less harsh circumstances and not as big a reward at stake.

Go to your daily job. Work on an important star-maker project for several weeks. Complete it successfully. And then let's see how you'd react if you learned that a member of management had goofed your presentation to the board, and your nemesis in the company got the promotion, even though his project was something a fresh out of school grad student could have done. He did what he did. And I'm certainly not going to be critical of him for his actions. He didn't kick anything. He didn't break anything (I'm sure that 3rd place sign will live to fight another day). And most of all, he didn't throw the team under the bus. To me, that is the big one that really surprised me. I don't think there are very many sportsmen (or people in the corporate world - that one I know for sure) who wouldn't have done that. And I suspect that is what made Toto Wolff breathe a sigh of relief. He could have easily found himself trying to explain to the media how he would be dealing with harsh, publicly spoken words launched against the team by Hamilton.

I imagine/pretty well know that he was emotionally crushed in that moment. And knowing that he's no more emotionally super-human than anyone else out there, his reaction was about as good as I would expect from anyone. I would say that whether it was Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso or anybody else. In the past, all three of those gentlemen have put their respective teams under the bus. In this case, Lewis didn't do that. So good on him. This is certainly not the same guy who pulled a brat move by tweeting telemetry data to prove that his team was clueless.

The potential damage that I see has to do with the Mercedes team. As a driver, it would be difficult to convince oneself that information or advice given in the future, under similar high pressure circumstances, would be entirely accurate. That trust has certainly been violated. And I'd say that will be hard to overcome.

[Nitrodaze]

No offense to anyone, but declaring from an armchair what someone should or should have done under those circumstances is a bit presumptuous, IMO.
Sorry buddy, this is not presumptious at all as there is no precedent for this error. It is the first ever in modern F1. To breakdown is bad luck and unavoidable. A bad call is bad luck which was obvious to everyone was quite avoidable. Vettel was no threat if he had pitted for new boots. Tyre were good for full race and it was less than 10 laps to the end of the race. Staying out was less risky than pitting because overtaking in Monaco was at best very difficult. If Vettel had pitted, he would have ended up behind Kimi or Ricciado which implies that he would needed to pass 4 or 5 cars to win within less than 10 laps. As it turned out racing commenced with 6 laps to go. That l believe to be impossible at Monaco. Pitting had its own inherent risks, due to the human element which is unpredictable under pressure; the mechanical element of wheel nuts not coming off or going back on easily and burning valuable time. Possible driver overshooting the box which could burn the very marginal half a second advantage available.

These guys are suppose to be one of the best in the game, hence this is not your garden variety error, this is a giant neon sign level eff up or premeditated. I shall go with GIANT EFF UP for obvious reasons.

The reason the Mercedes pit wall is being criticized is because the level of risk analysis performed was casual and lacked evidence of the appreciation of the cost to Hamilton's championship status should pitting go wrong. This is the very reason which leads some to think it may have been premeditated to bring it about.

[Bagwan]

Let me correct you on this
Hamilton never asked for a stop he only explained the condition of his tires to the team, who failed to relay any proper information to him.
He was then asked to pit in a joke of a decision. He probably said the same things that vettel and rosberg, kimi, kvyatt and ricciardo relayed to the team,
the only difference is that the mercedes folks stupidly were the only ones to pit the leading car and lose the race

Split hairs .
He was worried and wanted to stop .

[Bagwan]

To those who call for heads to roll , or for some sort of payback for Lewis , no offence intended , maybe should listen to the man as he toes the line .
"We win and lose as a team ."
He got that exactly right .

Mind you , in direct reference to that , and how much truth there is in it , he didn't much celebrate the win or the third with the team , as if they were wholly at fault .

[rjbetty]

As for his sulky stopping at the tunnel entrance , and his slow parking and knocking of the third sign , and his no champagne spray , I see him as still pretty fragile , in a time where until now he's been showing a reasonably serene , "in control" demeanor .

Ugh so even that is being held against him! There is simply no pleasing some people (as you realise they don't want to be pleased). So how do you find Nico's behaviour after China then?


I would have been happier to see him declare how desperately stupid lucky Nico was , and that he'd better not expect that kind of gift again .

I'd rather see a declaration of the fight rather than a pout about the last battle .

I think he would have been torn a new one on here and everywhere in internetland if he did that. I'm glad he reacted the way he did, pausing at Portier to gather his thoughts. I find Lewis to be one of the most "real" people in the business and respect him for this.

SMH

[Tazio]

People here (and there) keep talking about some "Boss". .It is just a nic-name I use for Lewis Hamilton, I didn't originate it, and it's been used for others. All the nic-names I use are meant to be terms of endearment, even if they don't conjure up positive images for everyone that reads them, and conversely the ones that sound ultra-patronizing are really not meant to be "all that". Now when I use the wink emoticon that means I am being (at least a little) facetious, like I was when I quoted Firstgear on this thread. I think that probably less than 1/2 of the crap I post on this forum is even based in reality, so in case you are, please don't take me too seriously, because I certainly do not.
I´m sure Alonso got die hard fans, I know it for a fact, Of course he does, he is very popular, and I wish I was fluent in Spanish, because I would tear some of those fans a new one wherever it is that they congregate. Hell they may be bigger idiots than your average Italian, although that would really take some doing.

bossen:kiss:
bossen
:kiss:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suXXVS7cqJw

;)

[Mia 01]

Thanks for the explanation Tazio! You made my day a bit brighter.

[Big Ben]

I hope, for all those depressed by what happened, that Mercedes and Hamilton will learn a thing or two from this disaster. Hamilton could learn to bitch and moan about the tires properly or Mercedes could learn not to take him that seriously. They should think about the consequences. If hamilton doesn't win the wdc by august... I mean, is such a life worth living?

[Duncan]

No offense to anyone, but declaring from an armchair what someone should or should have done under those circumstances is a bit presumptuous, IMO. Looking back over my memory banks at things said and done by Mansell, Senna, Prost and Schumacher (among others), if what Lewis did on Sunday represented fragility, then he seems to be in pretty good company. Hell, I've seen drivers break down and cry before in other series, under less harsh circumstances and not as big a reward at stake.

Not to mention:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpZnE7gj0gY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPOXvyOUA6Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1itUrFokDhs

[kfzmeister]

I'm making a shirt that shows a smiling Ross Brawn with the caption "Miss me, yet"?

[The Black Knight]

Let me correct you on this
Hamilton never asked for a stop he only explained the condition of his tires to the team, who failed to relay any proper information to him.
He was then asked to pit in a joke of a decision. He probably said the same things that vettel and rosberg, kimi, kvyatt and ricciardo relayed to the team,
the only difference is that the mercedes folks stupidly were the only ones to pit the leading car and lose the race

He knows this already, just likes to disagree for the sake of it.


No offense to anyone, but declaring from an armchair what someone should or should have done under those circumstances is a bit presumptuous, IMO. Looking back over my memory banks at things said and done by Mansell, Senna, Prost and Schumacher (among others), if what Lewis did on Sunday represented fragility, then he seems to be in pretty good company. Hell, I've seen drivers break down and cry before in other series, under less harsh circumstances and not as big a reward at stake.

Go to your daily job. Work on an important star-maker project for several weeks. Complete it successfully. And then let's see how you'd react if you learned that a member of management had goofed your presentation to the board, and your nemesis in the company got the promotion, even though his project was something a fresh out of school grad student could have done. He did what he did. And I'm certainly not going to be critical of him for his actions. He didn't kick anything. He didn't break anything (I'm sure that 3rd place sign will live to fight another day). And most of all, he didn't throw the team under the bus. To me, that is the big one that really surprised me. I don't think there are very many sportsmen (or people in the corporate world - that one I know for sure) who wouldn't have done that. And I suspect that is what made Toto Wolff breathe a sigh of relief. He could have easily found himself trying to explain to the media how he would be dealing with harsh, publicly spoken words launched against the team by Hamilton.

I imagine/pretty well know that he was emotionally crushed in that moment. And knowing that he's no more emotionally super-human than anyone else out there, his reaction was about as good as I would expect from anyone. I would say that whether it was Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso or anybody else. In the past, all three of those gentlemen have put their respective teams under the bus. In this case, Lewis didn't do that. So good on him. This is certainly not the same guy who pulled a brat move by tweeting telemetry data to prove that his team was clueless.

The potential damage that I see has to do with the Mercedes team. As a driver, it would be difficult to convince oneself that information or advice given in the future, under similar high pressure circumstances, would be entirely accurate. That trust has certainly been violated. And I'd say that will be hard to overcome.


Great post.

[Bagwan]

"We told him to stay out." said Wolff .
To which he replied "not good" , referring to his tires being old and cold .

So , yeah , you could say he was asking to pit .

They made the decision based on the FACT that the driver wanted to pit , and that there was time to do it if the stop had gone as planned .

As it happened , Lewis was partly to blame there as well , as he didn't hit his marks right on , but went slightly deep , causing a small time loss on it's own .



Look , the decision to stop looks a whole lot dumber from here in the future .

They thought they still had time to do it and they had a very nervous driver . It's really as simple as that .
The guys behind both spoke of how nervous they were about the restart as well , on icy tires that were well worn and would not be easy to heat up as a result .

Sure , it was a team decision , but , as he stated , he is part of that team .

[Bagwan]

He knows this already, just likes to disagree for the sake of it.




Great post.

Incorrect on both points .
Give it another try .

[TMorel]

"You sure it's the best thing to stay out? These tyres have lost all their temperature. Everyone is going to be on options now."

The more I hear of the radio transmission the worse it sounds

[Bagwan]

"You sure it's the best thing to stay out? These tyres have lost all their temperature. Everyone is going to be on options now."

The more I hear of the radio transmission the worse it sounds

So , who is he angry at ?

[Tazio]

Baggie we don't need to turn this into "The Young and the Restless" It is part of human nature that in situations of sudden and extreme disappointment to be
angryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :angryfire!!
Personally I think The Boss handled it very well. As I mentioned earlier it is some of his faithful followers that can't accept his complicity in the decision making, that is also human nature. I mean after all not everybody can be as cold and calculating as you ;). It really was a sudden blow, so I think all concerned parties are entitled to be upset. Personally I wasn't nearly as upset when Fred lost the WDC to Seb in Abu dhabi as it seems many are over this. I was however when Mike broke down at Suzuka in 2006, and Fred came past and gave a little wave bye, bye, oh yeah, I could have killed over that. :spinhead:
As I remember Mike sort of took it in stride, but he never was one to wear his heart on his sleeve, plus he already had 7 WDCs in his pocket.
Roll on Canada baby :angel:

[The Black Knight]

I haven’t heard the radio transmission in full so I guess there might be something missing, but quoting something o me without the link to the recording isn’t much use. I could write that myself so feel free to provide links.

On the other hand, if Hammy did want to come in, the fault still lies with the team for bringing him in. It is up to them to do the calculation and do it correctly. They didn’t so it is still a catastrophic case of brain fart on the Mercedes pit wall no matter what way you spin it as the final call lies with them. Plus Hammy was delayed in his pit box which added at second or so to the time, otherwise he probably would have ended up in front of Seb. At that point maybe Mercedes could have negotiated with Nico to give Hammy the place back though I have my doubts that he would have – I certainly wouldn’t if I were in his position.

As Tazio says, roll on Canada.

[Hawkmoon]

You don't have to be Ross Brawn to know that track position at Monaco is king. So even if Hamilton had requested a stop the team should have told him to stay out. They had data that Hamilton didn't. They knew Rosberg wasn't going to stop for example. The chances of losing a position to the slower Ferrari had to be no better than the chances of stuffing up the pitstop. Mercedes even claimed that they didn't have GPS so they didn't know exactly where Vettel was. Why would you stop under these circumstances?

I put this one squarely on the team.

[Nitrodaze]

"We told him to stay out." said Wolff .
To which he replied "not good" , referring to his tires being old and cold .

So , yeah , you could say he was asking to pit .

They made the decision based on the FACT that the driver wanted to pit , and that there was time to do it if the stop had gone as planned .

As it happened , Lewis was partly to blame there as well , as he didn't hit his marks right on , but went slightly deep , causing a small time loss on it's own .



Look , the decision to stop looks a whole lot dumber from here in the future .

They thought they still had time to do it and they had a very nervous driver . It's really as simple as that .
The guys behind both spoke of how nervous they were about the restart as well , on icy tires that were well worn and would not be easy to heat up as a result .

Sure , it was a team decision , but , as he stated , he is part of that team .
I am not sure which race you were watching. But the 2015 Monaco race we are talking about, the team should take the blame for this one. They are the ones who are suppose to have a clear head to make a thorough risk analysis and make the best decision for the benefit of the team and the driver or at least strongly point out the risks of pitting to the driver. Otherwise, there is no need for the pit wall crew.
The main problem here is, there was lack of evidence of good appreciation of the risk. Hence none was communicated to the driver. With Nico between Vettel and Hamilton, he was not a real threat. Nico on fresh tyres was not a threat. The clever engineers on the Nico side of the garage were not dumb to consider pitting because they could see that there was a major disadvantage to do so.
The real question is, what is the safest time buffer to make a pit stop. If the entire time to make a pit stop is 25 seconds, to cover all eventualities of driver over shooting the box, pit crew eff up and wheel gun jams, would half a second do it? The Vesterpen scenario required 5 sec. With such a high stake as was the case for Hamilton, would one say 3 to 5 seconds to spare for one to make a call to pit under the Monaco circumstances. The lack of 2.5 seconds was what cost Hamilton the race.

The error to pit early at Malaysia gave Vettel an untroubled victory as the Mercedes cars were too far back to mount a challenge. Adding the Monaco saga, one could say a pattern is beginning to emerge at Mercedes. Hence, the title may not be such a done deal as Ferrari and Red Bull can smell blood. This pattern which l call the "Brawn effect" is likely to bring ferrari and possibly Wiiliams (if they can get their act together) closer to mercedes as we draw to the close of the season. Having the faster car is not an automatic guarantee of winning the championship. It would most likely be a great spectacle if this were to transpire, don't you think? Keep effing up merc, you are spicing up the season :-).

[Bagwan]

Baggie we don't need to turn this into "The Young and the Restless" It is part of human nature that in situations of sudden and extreme disappointment to be
angryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :angryfire!!
Personally I think The Boss handled it very well. As I mentioned earlier it is some of his faithful followers that can't accept his complicity in the decision making, that is also human nature. I mean after all not everybody can be as cold and calculating as you ;). It really was a sudden blow, so I think all concerned parties are entitled to be upset. Personally I wasn't nearly as upset when Fred lost the WDC to Seb in Abu dhabi as it seems many are over this. I was however when Mike broke down at Suzuka in 2006, and Fred came past and gave a little wave bye, bye, oh yeah, I could have killed over that. :spinhead:
As I remember Mike sort of took it in stride, but he never was one to wear his heart on his sleeve, plus he already had 7 WDCs in his pocket.
Roll on Canada baby :angel:

Asking who he's angry at is just pointing out he was complicit in the decision making process .

As Wolff said , "We told him to stay out" .
It was a pressure call , and they knew he wanted tires , so they capitulated , since they still had time to do so .

Essentially , on this point , I feel Lewis should get over this one , as he had a big part in how things went down .
Add that he stopped slightly long , losing time as the mechanics adjusted , and you have a guy who was essentially the victim of his own undoing .


It never should have been that close , but they had to delay his release as another car came by , and the signalling system didn't work properly .

So , two separate screw-ups occurred during the stop sequence .
And , neither would have been very predictable .
I expected Lewis to hit his marks , because he's a good hand .
And the team holds the current record at 1.8 seconds , don't they ?

All I'm saying is that nobody needs be hanged for the offence .

[Tazio]

All I'm saying is that nobody needs be hanged for the offence .
Fair enough, than we are in total agreement!

[Bagwan]

One other little point to add , as I just read some more analysis of the race , is that , apparently , Ferrari would have had enough time to pit Seb and have him back out in front of the Red Bull behind him .



Now , if a Hamilton fan wanted to point a finger at the guy that really had his podium fate in his hands , one would only have had to look to Nico , who could have eased off to let Lewis in front because Seb was unable , at the time to pass under the SC .
That would have ensured a Merc 1-2 , and really was the way the team should have played it , as that much should have been under their control .

They should have been on the horn to Nico , slowing him , to preserve the podium .
That they didn't is likely a bigger mistake than the stop itself .
But , as I said before , they thought they had enough time for the stop .

It was all awash with bad luck after some hasty decisions .

[Nitrodaze]

One other little point to add , as I just read some more analysis of the race , is that , apparently , Ferrari would have had enough time to pit Seb and have him back out in front of the Red Bull behind him .

It wouldn't have mattered if he came back out into 3rd, he would have finished 3rd with fast tyres. James Allens blog stated the following as the root cause of the reason why pitting Hamilton failed:-

"The team had miscalculated the gap Hamilton had to his pursuers, according to team boss Toto Wolff. Hamilton also lost time behind the Safety Car and lost 1.3 seconds in the pit stop as Felipe Nasr came down the pit lane as he was due to leave his pit box."

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/05/rosberg-takes-monaco-hat-trick-as-strategic-blunder-robs-hamilton-of-certain-victory/

Mercedes took a decision blindly without definite facts to support the call to pit. No GPS, no data of the effective gaps at the point of issuing the instruction for Hamilton to pit. While l hate to see someone fired for this, one would expect some sort of change to reflect a fix for what did not quite work at Monaco. To do nothing would simply imply that the flaw is still there and Hamilton is still exposed to the possibility of bad calls in the future. I am sure Lewis would be quietly uncomfortable with this scenario.

Some may choose to be casual about this, l just like to remind you that we are talking about 10 hard earned championship point lost this weekend for Hamilton by the team. Most of the tail end of the grid will not achieve 10 points at the end of the season. Hence, this is a big deal.

[journeyman racer]

You know what the best part about this calamity? The Loser Hamilton fanboy Gang can't blame this one on any "underhand" tactics by Rosberg, and destroy subsequent fred's because of it. No one can take their anger out on Rosberg.

Last year, Rosberg drove a clean race, but Hamilton finished behind him. This year, Rosberg had no answer but still won, and Hamilton ended up 3rd. I suppose it wasn't that bad last year after all!

[henners88]

As for his sulky stopping at the tunnel entrance , and his slow parking and knocking of the third sign , and his no champagne spray , I see him as still pretty fragile , in a time where until now he's been showing a reasonably serene , "in control" demeanor .


You wish Bagwan more than anything else here, you wish lol. I see a frustrated sportsman in the moment, we are all human at the end of the day. He conducted himself very well at the end of the race despite feeling very let down.

He'll get over it and his comments after the race gave indication he already was on that path. On to Canada a track Lewis knows very well.

[Bagwan]

You wish Bagwan more than anything else here, you wish lol. I see a frustrated sportsman in the moment, we are all human at the end of the day. He conducted himself very well at the end of the race despite feeling very let down.

He'll get over it and his comments after the race gave indication he already was on that path. On to Canada a track Lewis knows very well.

Nice to see you back around here henners , my friend , even though you still support that loser , um , I mean third-placer .
The elastic in his underwear seems to still be a little too tight , ready to snap at any time , if you know what I mean .

His is the only guy who seems to always have the need to do a meticulous package adjustment on camera before sliding into the car .

It may have been a contributing factor in his wanting to pit , as he could take his hands off the wheel for another adjustment .
Come to think of it , that might have been why he stopped just before the tunnel .

But then , his hands had probably cooled down a lot during the safety car period , thus explaining his sullen demeanor on the podium afterwards .




Yes , roll on Canada .

[Tazio]

Nice to see you back around here henners , my friend , even though you still support that loser , um , I mean third-placer .
The elastic in his underwear seems to still be a little too tight , ready to snap at any time , if you know what I mean .

His is the only guy who seems to always have the need to do a meticulous package adjustment on camera before sliding into the car .

It may have been a contributing factor in his wanting to pit , as he could take his hands off the wheel for another adjustment .
Come to think of it , that might have been why he stopped just before the tunnel .

But then , his hands had probably cooled down a lot during the safety car period , thus explaining his sullen demeanor on the podium afterwards .



Baggie we don't need to turn this into "The Young and the Restless"
Don't make me post it a third time, don't make me go there! :rolleyes:


His is the only guy who seems to always have the need to do a meticulous package adjustment on camera before sliding into the car .So you are transfixed on dudes junk during the pre-race broadcast?
OK who am I to judge, vive la différence! :angel:

[Bagwan]

Don't make me post it a third time, don't make me go there! :rolleyes:

So you are transfixed on dudes junk during the pre-race broadcast?
OK who am I to judge, vive la différence! :angel:

Just trying to figure out why the dude is wound so tight .

I'd register a complaint about it , not being something something I enjoy being exposed to , but I don't think it would make much difference .
Maybe Calvin Klein might be able to help . Do they work with Nomex ?

The man obviously needs some support .

3rd place and $100 million has gotta hurt , even if he is still in first place with the fastest car .
And , those damned tarts accosting him all the time .

Good thing he can flash away for some peace and quiet in L.A.
Hey , is "The hung and the breastless" set in La La land ?
This is all starting to make sense .

[henners88]

After reading that I am even more jealous of Lewis! The current World Champion, tarts following him everywhere and a package so big it needs adjusting every time he gets in the car.

No wonder he's known as 'Da Boss'. You knows it butt. :)

[Tazio]

Just trying to figure out why the dude is wound so tight .

I'd register a complaint about it , not being something something I enjoy being exposed to , but I don't think it would make much difference .
Maybe Calvin Klein might be able to help . Do they work with Nomex ?

The man obviously needs some support .



http://imarcom.simonscdn.ca/imarcom/webfolder/fc7/890/fc78904e570ac1de9884a69e86f5ba5b.en.jpg?__748ccf7f 7c5c688416c3edf256f7e00dh

:angel:

[Bagwan]

http://imarcom.simonscdn.ca/imarcom/webfolder/fc7/890/fc78904e570ac1de9884a69e86f5ba5b.en.jpg?__748ccf7f 7c5c688416c3edf256f7e00dh

:angel:

Hugo is a sponsor not offering enough support .

[Bagwan]

After reading that I am even more jealous of Lewis! The current World Champion, tarts following him everywhere and a package so big it needs adjusting every time he gets in the car.

No wonder he's known as 'Da Boss'. You knows it butt. :)

You sure it's not just a pair of rolled up socks and a big pay package ?

[Bagwan]

I know how to kill a thread , don't I ?

It's funny that now the sites are asking now why Lewis hasn't said why he stopped at Portier .
It's kinda obvious , but they want it from the horse's mouth .

[rjbetty]

You know Vettel also raised concerns about his tyres, saying something about a swimmer with weights on his arms and legs.

But Ferrari are a sensible team and wouldn't have dreamed of bringing him in.