Roadcar spin-off from Rally

[Sulland]

One thing is that the manufacturers learn from rally and use that in development of their roadcars.
What is a bit strange is that they do not make some sporty and cool looking roadcars with wider Wings front and back, and a quick engine. That stopped with the end of group N.

Most car buyers do not have a clue, and is not very interested in cars. So they buy what ever the rest is buying.

But the few that is over average interessted in cars, and therefor they are the ones the rest are asking for advice when buying a car.
And the few are the ones that are buying cool cars, because they want to.

Here the spin-off cars from rally have their mission. Fun cars, that the petrolheads will buy, and look so cool that they stand out from the rest.
The brand you own you normally also recomend to others, if you are happy with it.

Subaru WRX and Mitsubishi Evo have done more for those brands than they could ever dream of. Especially for the "farmers car" Subaru.

Skoda, Hyundai, Citroen, Peugeot, Ford and the others could get increased sales by using the petrolheads as their advertizers, as the ones talking up their brands.

If they will not do it themselves, use a local tuningfirm to make it for them.

[Mirek]

And that's why even Mitsubishi is abandoning this concept...

[AndyRAC]

I'm not sure the WRC is the best place to demonstrate 'road relevant' technology. 1.6T, 4WD cars.....hardly ground breaking. The nearest car you can buy that you see in the WRC is probably the R-GT Porsche; based on the GT3 Cup car which is virtually the same as the GT3 road car
Road relevant technology is what the WEC is for, and why more Manufacturers are signing up for it.

[Mirek]

The issue is that Porsche is on completely different market than the brands involved in WRC. Those can not sell anything for 150 thousand Euro. They make profit out of numbers and with novadays production methods it's extremely non-effective to produce anything non-standard. VW average margin is 2,5%. It's so small money out of one car that You can easily ruin it by using just few special components. First of all the manufacturers have to make profit and on today's market it's done by huge pressure on planning and effectiveness. Making some really different special versions is sadly completely uneconomic.

That's also why the world moved from gr.A cars twenty years a go. They were no longer profitable even back then. For manufacturers it's cheap to give 100 million Euro to let's say a team of 50 high skilled specialists to play and build some prototype cars with the same marketing effect as investing billions into serial production of something similar which in the end would be so expensive that nobody would buy it.

[stefanvv]

Current WRC car models are just not thrilling anyway some company to invest in road car equivalents. That's why the market is potentially even smaller than before.

[AdvEvo]

We can dream about it. But it won t happen anymore. That s why i am building my own E30 M3 grA car and do some nice rally s with it.

I have spend lots of money on subaru's and Evo RS and would spend my money on a 300hp 4wd fiesta wide body with mechanical diffs and manual handbrake without any doubt. But my hopes are gone.

it was a fantastic time to watch rally s and see all the rally evo's and drift home in my Evo RS!

[Rallyper]

Special roadcars built to lookalike WRC cars might make increased selling of ordinary cars and therefore could help manufacturers get more profit.
It´s all hand in hand. If a manufacturer participates in WRC a special roadcar would be considered as the fuit of their efforts to make a popular brand giving the ordinary models a boost.

I don´t know. It´s all theories anyway.

[Sulland]

It could be as simple as a wide Polo with a beefed 1,4 TSI and front wheel drive.
Not many need 4wd for the street anyway.
And the some motorsport inspired seats, and some more instrumentation.

It will sell in larger numbers if the price is right!

Stage II could be with 4wd for the real petrolheads!

[Mirek]

Keep dreaming guys... I bet You have little idea how production line and all the logistics and planning for it look like and how the competitive price on the market is reached. Of course You can believe in whatever You want but it's like living in some wonderland.

I don't say some of these mass-manufacturers won't do it but if they decide for that it would have to be an extra expense as a kind of image maker, not as something profitable.

You can ignore my babbling but I think I know a little about the subject as I'm part of the stock car development process...

[N.O.T]

having dreams is nice, having fantasies is plain stupid.

[stefanvv]

It could be as simple as a wide Polo with a beefed 1,4 TSI and front wheel drive.
Not many need 4wd for the street anyway.
And the some motorsport inspired seats, and some more instrumentation.

It will sell in larger numbers if the price is right!

Stage II could be with 4wd for the real petrolheads!

VW did something similar from the very start of their WRC campaign, but I didn't noticed some excitement about how it goes in the market.

[Rallyper]

Keep dreaming guys... I bet You have little idea how production line and all the logistics and planning for it look like and how the competitive price on the market is reached. Of course You can believe in whatever You want but it's like living in some wonderland.

I don't say some of these mass-manufacturers won't do it but if they decide for that it would have to be an extra expense as a kind of image maker, not as something profitable.

You can ignore my babbling but I think I know a little about the subject as I'm part of the stock car development process...

But as someone mentioned: the car doesn´t need to be made inhouse. And to me, such roadcar also boosts serial models. Marketing is so much more than just technical logistical issues massproducing cars. That hasn´t anything to do with dreams.

HAving said that, to me it doesn´t matter anyway. I´ll keep driving my 330d X-drive and enjoying every moment of it.

[OldF]

VW average margin is 2,5%.

Sounds small but it’s true.

I had a look at the VW 2014 annual report and I couldn’t believe what this mean for the operating profit per car.

http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/en/publications/2015/03/Y_2014_e.bin.html/binarystorageitem/file/GB+2014_e.pdf (page 25)

Sales revenue 99 764 000 000 €
Operating profit 2 476 000 000 €
Deliveries 6 119 000 cars
As % of sales revenue = 2 476 000 000 / 99 764 000 000 * 100 = 2,48%

Operating profit per car = 2 476 000 000 / 6 119 000 = 404 € / car.


But if I had a business and sell 6,1 million pieces of something per year and earn 1 € for each sold after costs, I would have 6,1 million in my pocket before taxes. It would do for me.:)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ford are the only manufacturer to even try to make a road car with a rally connection in recent years, with the Focus RS.

The Mk1 Focus RS was certainly a car that associated with rallying with its flared wheel arches, Brembo brakes and Sparco interior... but it had to be made on a separate tooling line and cost so much to produce that Ford actually made a loss on every one sold ! The car did look great though and certainly promoted the rest of Focus model range.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5261/5625035722_ff02aa8bbd_b.jpg

The Mk2 Focus RS was also rally associated in terms of its image and is a car that turns heads even of people who dont know about cars or rallying. I think this car also gave the Focus model range a late image boost before the Mk3 Focus was brought out.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1329/5154799143_340468bc69_b.jpg

Subaru and Mitsubishi have kept their 4WD cars to some extent but they have both dropped out of WRC-level rallying some time ago, due to costs.

As for the other manufacturer's, there is/was nothing from Citroen (DS3 Racing maybe), but no performance or look-alike of the Xsara or C4.

VW & Hyundai have hot-hatches but no rally-inspired looks. The Golf R is as good as it gets but is so upmarket and expensive that rally fans cant hope to have one.

Back to Ford and now they have dropped the rally-looks with the Mk3 Focus RS (5-doors, no flared-arches)... but at least they have gone 4WD and have a Drift-button !
But alas they are using Ken Block to promote it ... :(

http://www.motorward.com/wp-content/images/2015/02/focus-rs-ken-block.jpg


http://cdn.gunaxin.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/FordFocusRS_04.jpg

[skarderud]

If you want a rally-version of a roadcar, It has to be a tuned stock-car by a tuner. Easy-fitted styling, tune a 1,4 something petrol turbo, new rims, lower suspension. If its a performance-car maybe its money for a good differential.
And seats and a stearingwheel.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New Focus RS spotted today in North Wales... German tester at local Anglesey circuit... how boring does it look ?! :(

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll108/raymondbowon/20150521_125349.jpg~original

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll108/raymondbowon/20150521_125521.jpg~original

[AndyRAC]

When you consider RS is supposed to mean Rallye Sport, it's clear that's no longer the case. Surely the latest RS should have been a Fiesta? It also has nothing in common with the WRCar. Personally, it's just a better version of the ST - and not a true RS.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is the best version of how the new Focus RS should look... :)

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/1394031_587539824719603_8790092911536363933_n.jpg? oh=f136916f932b0194fd0c5c354e5f8960&oe=55F56741

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The new Honda Civic Type-R looks pretty race/rally inspired !

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM1Oo-iWsAA5zvy.jpg:large

[Mirek]

For me it looks more like a stuff from Japanese sci-fi comics. I have to say I don't like it (even though I really like Honda as a brand).

[Gregor-y]

It looks like one car dropped on top of another car. Which, considering the two-level dashboard Civics have had for a while is some kind of theme for Honda. I want to like the Focus RS, but the price is going to be pretty high and a decent Subaru equivalent will still be much less.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Civic Type-R looks way over the top for me to own... but respect to them for making something that's different to all the other (Euro) hot-hatch makers ...

But I dont see it selling too well as its £30,000+ and only the older driver could afford it and they wont go for that image.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Saw the new CTR today at a car meet and it drew a big crowd...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/EddieFocus/2015-09-27%2011.41.38_zpsxvt09npm.jpg

But I still prefer this... :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/EddieFocus/2015-09-27%2011.39.47_zpsngopclgn.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

For sale - nearest thing to an M-Sport Fiesta RS !

http://www.tarnockgarage.co.uk/components/com_rdautos/images/lba2e57d36f554c3e9ef00bf8a8c1dc2c2.jpg

http://www.tarnockgarage.co.uk/components/com_rdautos/images/lb92a59579c9b7a30ad713ed190a6a7e5b.jpg

http://www.tarnockgarage.co.uk/components/com_rdautos/images/lb94b550d00420cb86a54e8a1370ef30f7.jpg

http://www.tarnockgarage.co.uk/used-cars/detail/121-ford-fiesta-fiesta-st-2-wide-arch-ex-m-sport-show-car

[Mirek]

Have to say that the wide wheel archs look really good.

[itix]

Agree with Mirek but the blue things around the headlights does not so much!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The local tuner I use, Riverside Racing, took delivery of one of the first UK Focus RS today ! :cool:

Cant wait to go have a look in the metal and try to get a ride in it ! :D

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/13012633_1009306245812142_3038047337775478640_n.jp g?oh=56020abffdd12a042b37566abbb5183e&oe=57AE3B97

[BleAivano]

For sale - nearest thing to an M-Sport Fiesta RS !

http://www.tarnockgarage.co.uk/used-cars/detail/121-ford-fiesta-fiesta-st-2-wide-arch-ex-m-sport-show-car

Pretty ugly if you ask me.

[Zeakiwi]

It might be preferable for the car makers to use the small suvs for wrc to market the small suvs hopefully better than Suzuki did with the SX4. The BTCC has quite few brands this year.

http://www.cars4youcustom.com/ (At least these versions of the Fiesta used the awd of the evo)

The new wrx can easily be lifted 300hp which is probably sufficient if you intend to keep your driver's licence and car when travelling on public roads in most countries.
https://youtu.be/aQSxSLc6kH0

In Australia and Nz you can go down to your Ford dealer and buy (for not too much longer) Ford Falcon with 450 horsepower as the family car. https://youtu.be/p-yGuaOehUQ

The current Mazda 2/ Demio hatchback uses a variation of the Mazda CX5 platform so is probably more able to be modified to 4wd than the platform used by the Ford Fiesta.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New Focus RS using its 'launch-control' sounds pretty much like a rally car !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsdVH6WlPtU

[SubaruNorway]

New Focus RS using its 'launch-control' sounds pretty much like a rally car !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsdVH6WlPtU

I hope you were being sarcastic there :P