Renault and Red Bull Continue Smackfest

[Doc Austin]

I don't know how they can even finish out the year together like this.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-f1-chief-accuses-newey-of-lies

[anfield5]

Are both parties looking for a way out, and to save face by not being the one who ends the partnership. Sounds like a difficult divorce, with all of the acrimony and finger pointing.

[Doc Austin]

If Red Bull isn't going to run up front, I hope they at least make a hell of a stink.

It's a Smackfest

[CNR]

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport/story/195405.html
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autohebdo.fr%2Ff1%2Ff1%2Farticl e-25-25-32335%2F240315-f1-%25E2%2580%2593-abiteboul%25C2%25A0-%25C2%25AB%25C2%25A0%25C3%25AAtre-dans-cette-situation-est-scandaleux%25C2%25A0%25C2%25BB
"Cyril Abiteboul, Executive Director of Renault Sport F1, is entrusted in the n ° AUTOhebdo 2004 on the lack of performance of the Power Unit and the searthing to recreate a stable to the diamond.

The first Grand Prix of the season was difficult for Renault... Is this a simple case of electronics?

It is a matter of complexity of a supercharged combustion engine settings, aggravated by the contributions of the electric energy recovery... The fact to have begun this season with a lot of technical developments, some very late way, is no longer foreign... I am not an apology. The others arrive, not us. Being in this situation is outrageous, frustrating, sad.

Are Toro Rosso and Red Bull housed in the same boat, facing your engine worries?

Yes. In addition, for Red Bull, some chassis problems which did not suit the situation. In particular the lack of stability of the rear axle. Both handsets are difficult to drive machines.

Is it hard to hear Adrian Newey, technical director of Red Bull, say that the only problem of his car is his Renault engine?

Yes, it's hard to have a partner who lies. Adrian is a charming gentleman and outstanding engineer, but he has spent his life to criticize its engine partners. He is too old to change.

Check out the full interview with Cyril Abiteboul in n ° 2004 AUTOhebdo, available since Monday night digital on all platforms, and Wednesday on newsstands.
"

[AndyL]

Do I understand correctly that this "it's hard to have a partner that lies" comment that motorsport.com has based its headline on comes from a machine translation?

[jens]

I am sure this marriage isn't having easiest times right now. Renault is obviously the weaker link in the package as well. Red Bull is probably frustrated, but what can they do.

I mean it is a political situation as well. Everyone has to make the best compromise. Red Bull may consider a split from Renault, but where would they go? Red Bull-Honda? I think RB-Mercedes is unlikely as well as RB-Ferrari even though back in 2006 we had Red Bull-Ferrari team!

Actually I have a feeling that for a long time Renault hasn't had a strong commitment to F1 at least in terms of budget. That ever since Renault pulled out of F1 after the scandals in 2009 and Renault cut down its F1 presence though they carried on as engine supplier. Now, when the V8 engines were frozen, it wasn't a big deal, since all engine manufacturers were performing pretty close to each other. But with new expensive rules the situation has changed.

Is Renault really prepared to come back in stronger presence and perhaps purchase even their own team? Because in terms of marketing they are not getting much presence on Red Bull cars, since the Red Bull logo and colour scheme is all over Red Bulls! Not comparable to the nice yellow of Renault back in 2010!

Okay, there is lots of speculation and wild guesses. And solutions are dependent on internal strategies of company HQ's. Red Bull is probably pressing Renault for greater F1 commitment, thus improving their performance. While Renault is considering whether greater commitment can mean something else as well rather than just supplying the two Red Bull teams.

[zako85]

To me the whole public debate and a string of mutual accusations between RedBull Racing and Renault seems really odd. Sure, given the 2014-2015 level of performance of RedBull-Renault, there will be a search of the culpable parties, but why make this public and why show your dirty laundry to the rest of the world?

My theory is that the Red Bull is trying to shame Renault publicly, in order to keep the Frenchmen on their toes so they would deliver a competitive engine as soon as possible. Renault, on the other hand, now constantly hints at its intention to possibly start a new Renault team because the Renault brand isn't getting enough exposure through Red Bull racing. Since most analysts do not believe that Renault is serious about starting a factory team again, Renault's statements are simply meant to pressure Red Bull into giving more credit to the engine supplier.

My personal opinion is that Red Bull should really have the upper hand in this RedBull vs Renault debate. In the final years of the naturally aspirated engines, all of the engines were more or less equalized and frozen, so Red Bull could have won the 2010-2013 titles with any engine (except perhaps Consworth), so why shouldn't Red Bull get more credit for what they have done? Likewise, in 2014 whatever Red Bulls have accomplished was due to their drivers (or a driver?) and brilliant chassis development. It is clear that Renault was the weakest link in 2014 cars since other Renault customers started dropping their Renault engine supply like it was Enron stock.

What's going to happen next is that the Red Bull-Renault marriage is going to continue for some time. Red Bull knows that it can't count on having access to Ferrari or Mercedes engines, while Honda is in a very sorry state right now, so RBR has to use Renault by default. On the other hand, it's hard to believe that Renault would be willing to invest into a factory team again. It does seem possible that the frustrated Renault would eventually quit F1 racing just like Peugeot pulled out of WEC a couple of years ago. At that point, some people have speculated that RBR could either quit also or buy Renault's Formula 1 engine facilities. I also like to fantasize that Red Bull is already secretly developing its own engine with help of Cosworth or some other undercover player.

[jens]

I don't know how they can even finish out the year together like this.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-f1-chief-accuses-newey-of-lies

Isn't Adrian Newey about to step aside anyway? So it if is about his comments, it is not really much of a basis to part ways.:)

But I can understand that Newey likes to challenge engine manufacturers. He has built his career on making very tight car designs, which are a big challenge to integrate with engines. And sometimes the designs are so risky the engine manufacturer really is unable to match the "requirements" and the car goes kaboom - like the 2004 McLarens.

[Osella]

Yup.. seems very odd (not to mention shortsighted and unprofessional) of Abiteboul to have (reportedly) bitten on that bait..
Newey is not an integral part of the race setup, and rarely attends these flyaway races anyway. He's one man, with one opinion.
Yes it's fair to say that this has been building a while but this isn't the first time ole Cyril has made publicly questionable comments/accusations either in his Renault, Caterham or Renault (again) days.. Renault should be trying to rein him in & smooth the waters before this becomes MORE damaging to their reputation than Red Bull's..

There was clear emnity between Abiteboul & Marko in the paddock in Melbourne, but the problem here seems to stem from Cyril more than the Red Bull side & it's not doing Renault any good either way, whoever threatens to leave who first!

[rjbetty]

If Red Bull isn't going to run up front, I hope they at least make a hell of a stink.

It's a Smackfest

Yeah at least if nothing else, it's quite entertaining. :P

[Doc Austin]

Now they are all playing kissy-kissy and both red Bull drivers are saying how much progress has been made since Oz.

Before practice, Renault offered that it was possible they could just drop formula One if it hurts their reputation too much, and Horner says neither Mercedes nor Ferrari would supply them, so they would be out too. This has really turned into a shotgun marriage!

[Osella]

Nah, it was a romantic marriage full of love & compatibility. Now it's a bitter relationship that's only staying together for the kids & likely to end up in a murder-suicide.. ;)

[Tazio]

Nah, it was a romantic marriage full of love & compatibility. Now it's a bitter relationship that's only staying together for the kids & likely to end up in a murder-suicide.. ;)

:angel: this!

[steveaki13]

Heard on FP3 this morning that a rumour is floating round that Renault could buy Toro Rosso and enter as a team again???

Can't see it, but I only heard it in passing. Anyone heard that?

[AndyL]

Heard on FP3 this morning that a rumour is floating round that Renault could buy Toro Rosso and enter as a team again???

Can't see it, but I only heard it in passing. Anyone heard that?

Yes Cyril Abiteboul said yesterday that Renault is looking at a lot of options, from buying Torro Rosso to quitting F1 entirely.

[steveaki13]

Yes Cyril Abiteboul said yesterday that Renault is looking at a lot of options, from buying Torro Rosso to quitting F1 entirely.

Yes. Thats quite a range of options isn't it. :p

[AndyL]

Yes. Thats quite a range of options isn't it. :p

I think they have at least ruled out releasing their own brand of energy drink :)

[journeyman racer]

I heard on radio over here. That Mateschitz wouldn't mind Renault buying his team, so he can then buy a shares, or shares in CVC, so he can run F1.

[Doc Austin]

That Mateschitz wouldn't mind Renault buying his team, so he can then buy a shares, or shares in CVC, so he can run F1.

We could do worse. Mateshitz made all those billions out of next to nothing. I'de imagine he knows how to run a business.

[journeyman racer]

If he were to, I would prefer to see him relinquish his tie to RB, which I think would be close to impossible. Unless RB stops sponsoring F1?

[Jag_Warrior]

We could do worse. Mateshitz made all those billions out of next to nothing. I'de imagine he knows how to run a business.

Yeah, but so did the dwarf that we have now. Course, when Barney the Dinosaur gets beamed back up to the mothership one of these days, one has to wonder who will be able to herd cats as well as he has over the years? But CVC is a private vulture group. So I expect they're looking to sell sooner than later.

[Jag_Warrior]

Also, with what Ferrari has been able to accomplish over the winter and how the Toro Rosso-Renaults are at least equal to the Red Bulls thus far, possibly Horner should spend some time studying the fellow in the mirror and less time whining and finger-pointing.

Just a thought...

[jens]

Also, with what Ferrari has been able to accomplish over the winter and how the Toro Rosso-Renaults are at least equal to the Red Bulls thus far, possibly Horner should spend some time studying the fellow in the mirror and less time whining and finger-pointing.

Just a thought...

I think what Toro Rosso has developed, is truly remarkable. Especially as they have rookie drivers, who even regardless of how talented they are, are not performing at 100% yet. Also considering power unit disparities, chances are Toro Rosso might have third best chassis in the field right now, after Mercedes and Ferrari! Which would be a stunning achievement!

However, they are likely to drop backwards during the season as other teams are getting their act together.

[N. Jones]

Just like Williams-BMW...
Will Renault run their own team and then leave the sport with too high expectations like Beemer??

[Robinho]

Imagine if Torro Rosso still had Ferrari lumps, they'd be racing Williams, possibly for podiums

Sent from my 0PJA10 using Tapatalk

[jens]

Just like Williams-BMW...
Will Renault run their own team and then leave the sport with too high expectations like Beemer??

Who knows.:)
I am still struggling to see a good reason, why should Renault have their own team unless they are prepared to increase their budget 3-4 times and really get their heads down to fight against Ferrari and factory Mercedes teams and try to bring the glory days of Renault back, which they had a decade ago. Is this what they discuss internally in Renault HQ, I don't know.

I can understand Renault doesn't get much exposure right now, because Red Bull and Toro Rosso liveries are all Red Bull. Not in Renault colours (mainly yellow). But having their own team is a completely different ballgame.

[Doc Austin]

All better now.

Red Bull, Renault agree to end public spat (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-renault-agree-to-end-public-spat)

[anfield5]

Ahhh good old common sense. I wonder how long this will last, my guess is until after the first P session in China.

RBR do have a point, the Renault lump would make a great boat anchor - but Renault do have a point, the RBR chassis is a dog. I would love to be a Ferrari, Merc, or even Honda trouble maker right now, it wiould be fun to poke Renault and RBR with a stick, just to keep the feud stoking along :)

[Doc Austin]

The both would have been smarter to just agree to shut up instead of announcing they don't hate each other. I mean, why even draw attention to the spat by acknowledging it's over. Just shut up, get back to work, and fix it.

I also don't buy it that the Red Bull chassis is a dog. If the motor is so undriveable that you never know what it is going to do next, it's kind of hard to dial your set up in. One of the things that is making Red Bull look less than spectacular is that the Torro Rosso has been spectacular with the same motor.

I think when Renault gets the motor right that Red Bull will right in there with Williams and Ferrari. Torro Rosso will be looking pretty good too.

[Storm]

Renault can always buy Sauber - they already run their colours ;)

[N4D13]

Renault can always buy Sauber - they already run their colours ;)
Isn't Renault only yellow? I remember that Renault's blue from 2002-2006 was only due to Mild Seven sponsorship.

[Hawkmoon]

Renault were yellow, white and black.

[Storm]

Isn't Renault only yellow? I remember that Renault's blue from 2002-2006 was only due to Mild Seven sponsorship.

well some of their colours :p: or get Telefonica on board

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/renearnoux_renault_interlagos_1980.jpg

[Jag_Warrior]

I read that Red Bull has already run through 6 of their 8 allowed engines. I'm not sure where Toro Rosso is, but it couldn't be a whole lot better.

Considering how dominant Renault has been in the past, this is almost painful to watch now. This is beginning to remind me of the Rise & Fall of the Cosworth Empire.

[jens]

Generally speaking. We have seen teams going through 'high' and 'low' periods. For instance McLaren certainly entered a lean period in 2013. Mercedes had one in 2010-12/13. And so on.

Looking at wider implications, I wonder if this is a temporary setback or it could well be a longer lean period for Red Bull. It depends on various factors, but especially on the Red Bull-Renault relationship in the new regulations era. Neither is going through an easy time. They have to find a resolution, how to go forward, because otherwise they are in danger of facing a lengthy lean period together. They can't carry on in this 'state of uncertainty' for long. Uncertainty basically means struggle and uncompetitiveness.

Renault has to decide, how to approach engine programme and make their PU much more competitive. Red Bull has to make some adjustments in the chassis design department in the post-Newey era as well. Perhaps promote James Key, who is doing an excellent job at Toro Rosso? Like Ferrari hired James Allison from Lotus and it is paying dividents. However, overall, the weaker link is still the Renault PU in the package.

Also I am pondering about wider implications, like the silly season. Because if this is a longer lean period, Ricciardo might start looking for a way to get alongside Vettel at Ferrari again! And certainly there will be teams interested in Verstappen. But at least Red Bull has plenty of young talented drivers coming up, so they can't worry about it. BUT... if your car is bad, it won't attract great drivers that easily. Even though McLaren-Honda somehow managed to woo one of the best driver pairings on the grid to themselves...

[DannyQ]

http://motorsportcentral.co.uk/horner-understands-red-bull-quit-threat/

I think that Red Bull are going too far with the whole quitting saga we all know it wont happen so why do they bother with threats at all?

maybe for the benefit if the sport if they continue to pit their dummy out then they should leave and stop dragging F1 down with it