Al Unser Jr - Williams F1 Testdrive (1992/1993?)

[Giuseppe F1]

Trying to get hold of any pictures, info - was the test successfull? Was it a one-off test or was the idea that it would lead to an eventual F1 race drive? Was Al impressed with F1 machinery versus IndyCar machinery??

Is it true he tested for Benetton too also?

Any images of Al Unser in the Williams would be greatly appreciated


Giuseppe F1

[Easy Drifter]

From my feeble memory he tested only for Williams.
Frank didn't like his smoking and said he was overweight and not in good enough shape for F1.
I cannot remember if his times were in the ballpark.

[Komahawk]

If Al was overweight, how come Michael Andretti got a McLaren-ride?

Anyway, I've heard (really just heard) that Williams wanted to sign him for '92, but Al stayed in IndyCar because he wanted to win the '500 before he'd go anywhere else.

[inimitablestoo]

I think there was also a suggestion that Williams or FISA (or both) wanted Little Al to do F3000 first (!) before giving him an F1 seat. Bearing in mind he'd already won his first IndyCar title at that stage...

Paul Tracy did test for Benetton at the end of 1994, with an eye to running the last two races (CART's season having finished fairly early back then) but declined to sign a long-term deal with Flav and didn't get the seat, which went to Johnny Herbert. There's something in the back of my mind that suggests Al Jr also tested for Benetton, or was invited to test for them, in 1992, but I can't be certain.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Al Jr. wasn't really into F1 if my memory serves correct. Unlike most European or Canadian kids, the American drivers of that era saw Indy as the big deal, and you have to know Jr. would have not traded his Indy 500 wins for anything.

I don't think he took f1 seriously, and they knew it. There is a cultural divide between American drivers and the people who run f1, and it really isn't something that is crossed too often, and when it is, it isn't by people like Al Unser, who was weaned on the majic of Indy....

[Civic]

I think it was Little Al that said a Grand Prix car was a quarterhorse and an IndyCar was a thoroughbred.

[Komahawk]

Still it'd have been intersting...

Mansell vs Unser in the '92 Williams. I bet it'd have been ALOT closer than Mansell vs Patrese.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Komahawk, that is going on the assumption that Al would have been motivated to play in that arena. F1 is a political minefield and the American driver tradtionally has not played that silly game well. Al I also think was a better oval driver than he was a road racer. As good as he was in CART, I don't think he was in Mansell's class back then on road courses. I think Paul Tracy was the better road racer, and also, it is well known that Jr. didn't like testing and in his Penske days, let PT do most of the testing. I remember a photo of PT testing at Nazerath in the early early spring and you could see the snow by the side of the track... That hatred of testing wouldn't have helped Jr. at ALL in f1 since testing was a massive part of the job in f1.

[Komahawk]

We could make a poll about which American IndyCar champ would've looked good in F1. Mears beat Piquet in a Brabham during testing in '83, Rahal might've looked good too.

BTW does anyone have pictures with Mears and Piquet on it? Man the names alone make it feel like "Clash of the titans"...

[Mark in Oshawa]

I didn't know Mears did a test for Brabham. I think American stars of this era could hold their own in any racing arena, just as I think Mansell proved oval racing didn't hold any mystique for him when he won his championship winning mainly on ovals.

It would be a neat poll, but I think the guy who had the best mental approach to handle f1 would be Rahal. Bobby was unflappable no matter what, and his mindset is very much like that of Prost. Bobby and Alain liked to think about what the car can do or will do under every situation, and they both liked to study ideas. Racing to them was a cerebral exercise, and Bobby would be impervious to the games teams played. He would walk in, sit down, and get respect by saying Cut the BS and lets get this done.

[Komahawk]

IMO Mansell's best season was his IndyCar '93 championship.

Mears was quicker during the Brabham tests, but they demanded him to pay for the ride if he wanted to join the team. He refused and stayed with Penske.

Cheever didn't look too convincing. He was Prost's teammate for a season or two and got thrashed. Then again Eddie wasn't the best guy later in IndyCar, either.
Sullivan might've been better had he stayed a little longer.

[Marbles]

I don't recall an actual test but there was strong interest in Unser from Williams in the early nineties and I vividly recall Unser hanging around the Williams paddock at the Montreal G.P. back then. I've asked elsewhere if there was ever a test but I can't find any reference to one. Al too fat?

[rabf1]

"Al I also think was a better oval driver than he was a road racer."

Actually, AUJ was one of the greatest American open wheel road racers ever in my view. The vast majority of his wins were in road and street courses.

[namarow]

I think Unser may have done well back then. I know regular folk like Nigel Roebuck we convinced he had what it took.

[szautke]

I think Al Jr. would had done well providing he took the rigors of F-1 seriously, however I think he would have tired of it's politics. Timing is very important. Perfect example is Michael Andretti, he joined McLaren just when F-1 made big cuts on testing, he never had a chance. It didn't help that he was commuting across the pond every other week. Also, he may have done better if he was single. Opps, did I say that? :eek:

I would have loved to have seen Jeff Gordon in F-1. Or in an Indy car. :imu:

[Easy Drifter]

I think part of MA's problem was he did not want to stay in Europe between races and he didn't really want to test if he had to stay. Even with the Concorde the constant time zone changes probably didn't help. I expect Al's thinking about Europe was similar.

[keysersoze]

Still it'd have been intersting...

Mansell vs Unser in the '92 Williams. I bet it'd have been ALOT closer than Mansell vs Patrese.

If AUJ could've driven an active suspension car, then maybe. Riccardo was Mansell's equal for much of '91, when their cars weren't active. The following year Mansell dominated, primarily because active suspension cars, as I understand it, require less "feel." Drivers just had to learn to trust the car--that when they drove into a turn they would come out OK on the other end.

Nigel always had more guts than brains.

[Komahawk]

Patrese never was a championship driver. Equal in '91? 19 points difference ain't close by F1 standards.

[keysersoze]

Patrese never was a championship driver. Equal in '91? 19 points difference ain't close by F1 standards.

Never said he was championship material. What I did say was that Riccardo was Nigel's equal during much of '91, which is true. Nigel even said so, stating at one point that "Riccardo is the team leader" before the French GP. Patrese had three poles on the trot. At Mexico, he sat on pole, dropped back to 4th by turn one, then caught, passed, and pulled away from Nigel (and Senna) to win convincingly. Led him in points until after France.

Had the pole in Portugal, which was quite late in the season, led by several seconds and finally was told to pull over for Mansell around lap 16, then later won the race when Nigel had pit troubles and dropped down to fifth.

RP was the revelation of the season, after Nigel was brought back from Ferrari and everyone expected Il Leone to blow Riccardo away.

Williams went to an active car for '92 and, as I mentioned in my previous post, it wasn't Patrese's cup of tea. Nigel beat his pants and Riccardo had a bunch of runner ups positons.

Do you have any evidence other than the 19 point differential?

[Komahawk]

No, I don't. But what "evidence" is more crucial than points? Points are all that count. And Mansell had 19 points on Patrese by the end of the season, that's a margin of (almost) two wins against two DNFs so to speak. So from my point of view, Mansell DID "blow away" Patrese.
You said that Patrese was Mansell's equal for most of the season. How come it was up to Mansell to challenge Senna for the championship? Patrese (nor Berger BTW) was never a serious factor.
And if I remember correctly, the French GP '91 was his only ever F1 victory.

Patrese was a decent driver.

[ArrowsFA1]

Anyway, I've heard (really just heard) that Williams wanted to sign him for '92, but Al stayed in IndyCar because he wanted to win the '500 before he'd go anywhere else.
There was never a seat available at Williams for the 1992 season.

Mansell vs Unser in the '92 Williams. I bet it'd have been ALOT closer than Mansell vs Patrese.
No disrespect to Unser at all, but I doubt it very much. I'm not comparing the ability of Patrese & Unser because that is impossible to do given their different careers, but Mansell 'played games' (http://www.riccardopatrese.com/motorsport.htm) in 1992 to ensure he had the upper hand, and he would have done that whoever his team-mate was.

Remember that Mansell was "persuaded" to come out of "retirement" in order to return to Williams in 1991. The goal for everyone concerned (Williams, Mansell, Renault) was to win the title, and Mansell more than anyone wanted (and felt he deserved) that title.

Patrese's performances in 1991 - being outqualified by his team-mate in the first 7 races of the season was not in Mansell's masterplan! - were on a level with Mansell's. Both drivers suffered from poor reliability as the team developed the technology that was to prove so dominant in 1992, but Patrese's contribution to the team was central to Mansell's success.


And if I remember correctly, the French GP '91 was his only ever F1 victory.
Mansell won the 1991 French GP. Patrese's 1991 victories came in Mexico and Portugal.

[ArrowsFA1]

Any images of Al Unser in the Williams would be greatly appreciated
I have seen a photo, but can't find it now. However, Nigel Roebuck had this to say about the test:
"If Michael Andretti's season in F1 undoubtedly affected European team owners' opinions of American drivers, so also - albeit less overtly - did Al Unser Jr's test with Williams at Estoril in '91. Again, at the time Al was regarded as one of the real hotshoes in CART, but his run in the Williams was described by one team member as, "Embarrassing, to be honest. For a start, he clearly wasn't anything like fit enough. After a few laps in the car, he could hardly move his head." And were his times slow? I asked. "Not as quick as that..." came the answer."

[keysersoze]

I figured you'd weigh in sooner or later--glad you did. I had to make a new account to be able to post here; this is "Daniel White" from a couple of years ago.

[keysersoze]

Riccardo had six wins in his career, btw. I wil never say Patrese was on par with the elite drivers in F1. But I'd definitely put him in the Barrichello, Coulthard, category--solid, loyal, team players, who could be throw down a magnificent performance on occasion.

[ArrowsFA1]

I figured you'd weigh in sooner or later--glad you did. I had to make a new account to be able to post here; this is "Daniel White" from a couple of years ago.
:wave: Welcome back :s mokin:

It was a big ask to expect the likes of Unser to step right into F1 and impress, and although the the comments reported by Roebuck were harsh they do reflect Michael Andretti's F1 experience. He also suffered from a lack of track time, something Jacques Villeneuve was not short of before he turned up at his first race.

[inimitablestoo]

Motoring News (as was) did an interview with Little Al back in 1994 after he won his second CART title, and there was a picture of him in the Williams then... unfortunately I've long since consigned that issue to scrapbook mode, and that picture didn't survive my sometimes brutal scissor-wielding regime... If anyone has their MNs from '94 intact though, it was in one of the later ones of the year.

[Civic]

Found this in someone's blog ( http://www.bjwor.com/990904.html )

"Little Al had been flirting with Formula One, since 1990. In fact, he was offered a reported $6 million, in 1990, by Frank Williams, for the 1991 season. Unser insisted on being able to run the "Indianapolis 500" and the offer from Williams vanished. Unser's proposed Williams ride was the one that carried Mansell to his F1 championship. If I recall, however, Al did test a Williams at the end of 1990. Two years later, less than two months after winning Indianapolis, Al discussed F1 opportunities with the Tom Walkinshaw and the Benetton team , but nothing ever came of it. By the start of the 1993 season, Unser seemed to forget about Formula One, especially when he saw the problems Michael Andretti experienced."

[Civic]

More interesting reading:

http://www.atlasf1.com/97/winter2/glikin.html

[Mark in Oshawa]

As I have always felt, Unser really wasn't serious about f1, and while he looked out of shape to the team guys, and wasn't fast, I suspect he wasn't motivated and wasn't really into the fitness regime in the off season. What is more, in CART, running ovals for almost half the sched still at that time, he could get away with being a little more portly, and his road course abilities in CART were not really that great. I suspect he could care less about f1 but thought it was an interesting offer to look into....

[Alexamateo]

Mark FYI Al jr's career stats show him with 34 wins of which only 9 were ovals. He won 7 on natural terrain road courses and 18 on street courses.

Now, in '92-93 he was in a small slump only winning once in 1992 (Indy), and once in 1993 (Vancouver). He did roar back in 1994, winning 8 times, 5 of which were road courses. Finally of his 9 oval wins, 3 were in the IRL, so only 6 of his 31 CART wins were on ovals. So I disagree with your statement that his road course abilities were not that great. Road courses were in fact his stronger suit.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Alex, I stand corrected but I guess I always remember him not doing well in Toronto, while he was always good at Indy. Then again, Indy in many ways rewards guys who are good road racers...not sure why.

[Alexamateo]

Two wins in Toronto (1988,1990) He did wreck and finish last or almost last 3 times (1987,1991,1995) Those must be the years you went. ;) :laugh:

[Mark in Oshawa]

I was there in 90, but I have this image of him winning at the 500, and his later years, I know he wasn't as competive. My apologies to any Jr. fans out there, for I just didn't remember his successes on the road courses, but I do remember his Indy wins, his winning a championship with Penske, but I also remember PT did all the testing after a while at Penske, or a lot of it, and I guess my memories of Jr. were of his later years where he lost that edge. The stupid thing is, I remember him in Can-Am for Newman Haas's Budweiser Lola at Mosport, but it is funny how one's memories of a driver's career can play tricks on you.

That said, I have a great spot in my racing memory for his dad, one of the nicest guys you would EVER want to meet and a truly understated guy.

[gshevlin]

I remember that Patrick Head commented after his test that Al would need to work on his fitness. The quote started something like "I'm not saying that he is unfit, but...". Clearly Al would have had to step it up a notch fitness-wise to be taken seriously in F1 by a team like Williams. I don't know if he was ready for that at the time, and Michael Andretti's perceived failure in F1 the following year with McLaren may have convinced him and every other leading US driver at the time that F1 was not a place where American drivers would get a fair chance to succeed. Any remaining doubt might have been blown away by Paul Tracy's Benetton experience, where, according to reports, he arrived at the track in Barcelona to be told that he would have to sign a long-term contract with Flavio Briatore before he could even get in the car. Tracy went back to his hotel while his manager sorted out that little "misunderstanding", did his test, but nothing ever came of it.

[DBell]

I found this from grandprix.com. This is the part of the biography that deals with Al's F1 forays.



He did a full season of CART in 1983 and in September was offered the job of being Nelson Piquet's team mate at Brabham by team boss Bernie Ecclestone. Unser declined the offer as he wanted to win the Indianapolis 500. Unser Jr. did not test in F1 until the autumn of 1991 when he ran a Williams-Renault at Estoril, alongside Riccardo Patrese and the then test driver Damon Hill. He later had a seat fitting with Benetton in 1992 but never tested for the team.

I also remember after the Williams test there were reports that it didn't go very well. Frank hated the fact that he smoked. (Didn't stop him from having Camel and Rothman's as sponsers though :s mokin: )

[gshevlin]

I don't think that Frank was so worried by the smoking...Keke Rosberg commented that Frank complained about him smoking until he finished second to Nelson Piquet in the 1982 Brazilian Grand Prix, and Nelson all but collapsed on the podium while Keke stood there...after that race Keke said it was never mentioned again.
I suspect that part of the motivation for testing Al Jr. may have been Frank's position vis-a-vis Nigel Mansell...Frank had declined to renew Thierry Boutsen's contract at the end of 1990, had been trying to sign Ayrton Senna for 1991, and actually got him to sign a contract in his personal jet in France in August 1990. However, the contract contained a clause that said that either party could nullify it before midnight the same day. Ayrton told Ron Dennis, who called Nobuhiko Kawamoto at Honda, who produced a large bag of $$$...and Ayrton nullified the contract, leaving Frank with no choice but to sign Nigel Mansell, who was the only top-line driver available. Nigel, knowing Frank's situation, demanded and got a large pile of $$$. Frank may have been attempting to "persuade" Nigel that he was replaceable for 1992 or beyond (in fact, he eventually replaced him by signing Alain Prost in 1992 for 1993 and 1994, and then used that as leverage to try and cut Mansell's salary for 1993, which caused him to bolt to CART).

[futuretiger9]

Still it'd have been intersting...

Mansell vs Unser in the '92 Williams. I bet it'd have been ALOT closer than Mansell vs Patrese.


Are you sure? I seem to remember the Williams team and F1 people in general being distinctly underwhelmed by Little Al's testing performances. They expected more from a CART superstar. The whole thing was quietly forgotten shortly afterwards. Benetton was briefly mentioned, but nothing came of it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

AL Jr didn't really care I don't think, and that attitude showed....

[Jag_Warrior]

Looking for something else and found this. Unser, Jr. in better times.

http://www.motorsportsalmanac.com/mastuff/fullsize/f1/1991/00/f1_199100_test_al_unser_jr_01.jpg

[libra65]

I think part of MA's problem was he did not want to stay in Europe between races and he didn't really want to test if he had to stay. Even with the Concorde the constant time zone changes probably didn't help. I expect Al's thinking about Europe was similar.

Mike didn't want to move to Europe, but please remember that Mario didn't move there either during his F1 career. Mike didn't get testing time because Ron Dennis got antsy & jumped the gun. He was so sure that Senna was not gonna resign, he stole a driver (Mika Haakenen(sp?) I think) from someone else. When Senna signed, Ron had 3 expensive drivers & only 2 cars. He gave all the testing time to Mika to justify his salary & to justify stealing him. Mike got no testing time due to new F1 rules drastically cutting testing time. They would put MA in a car with MH set up. They obviously didn't have the same driving style, therefore set up didn't work for MA. MA's last race Senna told the team to use his set up not MH and Mike got a podium.

Also, I believe I read a quote from Mario that Ron Dennis was so over extended financially because of all the salary that Michael didn't get paid by Ron until the following year.

[DBell]

Looking for something else and found this. Unser, Jr. in better times.

http://www.motorsportsalmanac.com/mastuff/fullsize/f1/1991/00/f1_199100_test_al_unser_jr_01.jpg

Those cars were much better looking than todays F1 cars. IMO

[keysersoze]

A very clean looking car. So glad Riccardo drove it.

[libra65]

Agreed DBELL. Todays F1 cars are not attractive.