Will someone PLEASE slap the FIA.

[Nem14]

Jeeez us.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-bans-mid-season-helmet-design-changes.

[driveace]

If you don't watch the race from the start it can be difficult to recognize each driver.If you see them on the grid ,you notice the new design helmet,but if you join the race after the start,it can be difficult ,even the commentators get confused as to who has just stopped at the side of the track etc

[Rollo]

Jeeez us.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-bans-mid-season-helmet-design-changes.

Okay - Quiz question.

Who is this?
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-KHiYLCEAAfinD.jpg

If you can answer that, the FIA is perfectly justified in its position.

If you're at the track and this thing is whizzing past at 200km/h you need all the help you can get.

[steveaki13]

Looks like Martin Brundles or Anthony Davidson's helmet :D

I'm guessing its not.

[Rollo]

I found a clearer shot:

http://www.f1aldia.com/photos/16700/16718/001_small.jpg

[anfield5]

Okay - Quiz question.

Who is this?
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-KHiYLCEAAfinD.jpg

If you can answer that, the FIA is perfectly justified in its position.

If you're at the track and this thing is whizzing past at 200km/h you need all the help you can get.

It is a copy of Alain Prost's hat, possibly his son Nicholas?

[anfield5]

Seems a wee bit O.T.T. to regulate helemt design rules, but in many ways I agree with the idea. It is only a recent thing to have drivers change every race, seem to suggest a degree of schizophrenia. It can make things difficult for us mere mortals to keep track of who's-who

[Rollo]

It is a copy of Alain Prost's hat, possibly his son Nicholas?

It is a Alain Prost's hat... because it is Alain Prost.

http://www.redbull.com/au/en/motorsports/f1/stories/1331664618863/alain-prost-red-bull-racing-rb8-silverstone-british-grand-prix-2014

This is kind of the point. QED.

'Who' is but the form following the function of 'what' and what an F1 driver is, is a man in a mask. Whilst I'm not questioning people's powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is... from 100 yards away we shouldn't have to.

[CNR]

It is a Alain Prost's hat... because it is Alain Prost.

http://www.redbull.com/au/en/motorsports/f1/stories/1331664618863/alain-prost-red-bull-racing-rb8-silverstone-british-grand-prix-2014

This is kind of the point. QED.

'Who' is but the form following the function of 'what' and what an F1 driver is, is a man in a mask. Whilst I'm not questioning people's powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is... from 100 yards away we shouldn't have to.
I disagree with you.
in your link you see a black T-shaped camera housing
http://www.f1scarlet.com/f1_racingguide.html#mates
the method most commonly used by teams to tell their cars apart is different colors for the T-shaped camera housing that is mounted on top of the roll-over hoop just behind the drivers head. The benefit of this is that is easy to spot from most angles, even when a driver is in traffic.
http://toplowridersites.com/alain-prost-drives-the-red-bull-rb6-at-paul-ricard/
alain prost drives the red bull rb6 at paul ricard

[Tazio]

It's not that big of a deal. I have real issues with the FIA, but this certainly isn't one of them! If it actually mattered to me (which it doesn't) I'd agree with the idea. If enough people have an issue with this they will change it back again. Nothing to get your panties in a twist about IMHO.

[philipbain]

I hate the whole helmet design swapping nonesense so I back the FIA's stance on this, a driver's helmet should be their hallmark, making them easily identifiable. However, makers of little scale helmets will be sobbing, they will have less scope to shift merch!

[AndyL]

It is a Alain Prost's hat... because it is Alain Prost.

http://www.redbull.com/au/en/motorsports/f1/stories/1331664618863/alain-prost-red-bull-racing-rb8-silverstone-british-grand-prix-2014

This is kind of the point. QED.

'Who' is but the form following the function of 'what' and what an F1 driver is, is a man in a mask. Whilst I'm not questioning people's powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is... from 100 yards away we shouldn't have to.

So we were looking at a clear, still picture of a very famous driver who hasn't substantially changed his helmet design in 35 years or something. Two committed F1 fans attempted to answer the question and neither correctly identified the driver. Doesn't this tell us that helmet designs are not a terribly effective way of telling who's who?

Legislating helmet designs is utterly ridiculous. If it turns out someone on motorsport.com accidentally posted the "April fools" story 6 weeks early I won't be at all surprised.

[Big Ben]

While I don't particularly like this constant helmet design change (attention whores :p:) banning it is quite stupid. FIA shouldn't get into such details. Can't they just make them put more visible numbers on their cars if they want to help us tell them apart? And how are they going to police this? The helmets will have to be identical at every race? Or are they going to establish some rules which changes actually change the design of the helmet?

[schmenke]

Many helmets these days contain sponsorship logos. So... what happens if a driver either changes or picks up a new sponsor mid season?

[Doc Austin]

If you want to make the cars easier to identify, just require bigger numbers.

This is just like the FIA to micromanage the crap out of everything when a simpler solution is easy to see.

[giu canbera]

they've also aborted the plan to introduce next year bigger fuel tanks and rear tires and more power on the engines. Also, they dont liked the suggestion to have only 3 mechanics during pitstops..
IMO this would be SOOOOOOOOOOO MUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH fun to watch and cheer!
A real battle between mechanics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLZU7teBwY8

[journeyman racer]

Logged on to like the OP. More whinging and whining from "the fans". Is there something else to sook about?

Alain Prost was easy.

[jens]

Well...

Sounds like a proper joke.

The decision to choose a helmet design for racing is an entirely private matter of the driver (and, also, sponsors). If he likes to have multiple helmet designs, it's his choice and if we - fans - have a problem with that, it is our problem.

You want a driver to have the same helmet, because you can't recognize him? Well, imagine, if you were told you need to wear a hat of certain colour all the time, because it would make it easier to spot you from the distance.:)

Even teams can sometimes change their liveries during a season (I can remember several special one-off liveries), but a driver can't change a helmet?

[journeyman racer]

To digress for a bit. As I've gotten older, I actually think the effort put into helmet colours by drivers is taken a bit too seriously. Especially some of the intricate designs that you can't notice unless you are holding it, or having a wider range of colours. I remember as a kid colouring in paint schemes, even during free class time . I remember thinking it was pretty dull of Al Unser jr to just go with the main sponsor colours. But now I see it didn't matter. Nowadays I think drivers are try-hards focussing on it so much. The point of the helmet is to protect your head. No creative paint scheme is going to protect your head more. If you're a professional racing an open cockpit, in a series that's on tv, then you chose a colour to distinguish yourself from others from a distance. Maybe two or three to allow for variations. Anything other than that, just the plain black or white will do.

[Tazio]

Well...

Well, imagine, if you were told you need to wear a hat of certain colour all the time,
I spent a long Baseball career being told that, and never had a problem with it :confused:

[Firstgear]

I prefer the helmet design for each driver to remain the same, but legislating it is probably going too far. Maybe a good comprimise would be to allow a helmet scheme change when/if the car has a one-off livery change. This would allow a change, but give them a little more incentive to remain mostly consistent.

[jens]

I spent a long Baseball career being told that, and never had a problem with it :confused:

Well, in a sports team game the whole team needs to wear same colours.

In F1... the cars of team-mates are in the same colour. So the last thing left personally for drivers are the helmets. IMO they should do whatever they like with helmets.

[Bagwan]

If they want to change them , it's alright with me , but they should realize that they do give up that element of instant recognition when they sell the space .

You can easily argue either point , that it's better to have them know you , them being both the drivers and the fans , or , that you can make money doing it .

I have always liked being able to tell who it was without having to figure out who had the red camera .
A helmet makes it easy , especially if it isn't to busy .
Even just a basic theme makes it easier to identify them as they are going by .

[Doc Austin]

I can see Vettel's side of it too. He loves helmets and wants a new design every time out. Who knows.....maybe he is superstitious about it. If I was collecting helmets, I would be the same way.

Today's helmet designs are so complicated that the only one I can pick out is Nico's, simply because it's no-gloss black with very little else. I think the rule is pointless because you can hardly tell one helmet from the other at speed.

Again, if they want the cars and drivers to be more identifiable, make the numbers bigger. Each driver had to pick a permanent number this year anyway, so why not exploit that? Make them run nascar size numbers on the wing endplates. That would stop all the confusion.

[Bagwan]

If they are going to be so draconian as to regulate it , why not make them wear their number on the top of the lid ?
And , make it a big ol' number , so's the old Rolex wearers can see them .

Do with the rest of the lid as you wish .

[Tazio]

Again, if they want the cars and drivers to be more identifiable, make the numbers bigger. Each driver had to pick a permanent number this year anyway, so why not exploit that? Make them run nascar size numbers on the wing endplates. That would stop all the confusion.
Maybe someone who actually cares about this international tragedy should kindly please be slapping the teams.......OK? :idea: :laugh:


Teams refused requests from the FIA and FOM for bigger driver numbers to be displayed on the cars, claiming the space was required for sponsors. So the helmet restrictions were a compromise and the guru of common sense – Niki Lauda has this to say: “I think the rule makes sense. Sometimes I can’t recognise even my own drivers in the car.”

Maybe even slap Niki's other ear off :rolleyes:

[Doc Austin]

Maybe even slap Niki's other ear off :rolleyes:

Does Niki still have an ear?

[anfield5]

So we were looking at a clear, still picture of a very famous driver who hasn't substantially changed his helmet design in 35 years or something. Two committed F1 fans attempted to answer the question and neither correctly identified the driver. Doesn't this tell us that helmet designs are not a terribly effective way of telling who's who?

Legislating helmet designs is utterly ridiculous. If it turns out someone on motorsport.com accidentally posted the "April fools" story 6 weeks early I won't be at all surprised.

Ah but I did recognise it as Alain Prost, the mistake I made was in thinking was maybe his son Nicholas used the same design as with Graeme and Damon Hill. And to be able to recognise the Prost helmet design 22 years after his retirement proves that helmet designs are an effective way of telling who is who.

[anfield5]

as opposed to this sort of carry on from Vettel

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRzB4gTjCI3frruczUqhX4813C_HU0bI RszWlCOdAL1tP3LN9Us
sorry about the low quality image - all I could find at short notice

[CNR]

there is room for large numbers
http://s10.postimg.org/pcvca56md/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/pcvca56md/)

[anfield5]

there is room for large numbers
http://s10.postimg.org/pcvca56md/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/pcvca56md/)

I fully agree, the numbers are too small and serve no purpose. They are not needed to identify the cars for lap scoring, so the only purpose id for TV, and they are too small to be useful.

What was the matter with this type of number?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Williams_at_Donington.jpg

[Nem14]

I agree the cars need bigger car numbers and driver's helmets need less complex designs.
Mine was pretty simple: a black background with fire engine red flames outlined with canary yellow, then cobalt blue next to the black.

If the FIA was serious they would assign a drivers helmet paint scheme along with the drivers super license as a way to maximize driver identification.
The only trouble is, the roster of participating drivers changes so rapidly these days among the back markers you can't identify many of those drivers without some kind of a guide.

[Tazio]

Does Niki still have an ear?

http://brosport.sk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/niki2.jpg

They don't gall him "ol' one ear" for nothing. :uhoh: :angel:

[Mark]

It's all very sensible. Back in my day ! , drivers had the same helmet for their entire career, or just about. None of this changing around all the time. tbh I think they should go further, helmet designs should be registered with the FIA when the driver takes part in their first race and apart from designated sponsorship areas they should have to remain with the same design for every F1 race they then take part in.

[journeyman racer]

It's all very sensible. Back in my day ! , drivers had the same helmet for their entire career, or just about. None of this changing around all the time. tbh I think they should go further, helmet designs should be registered with the FIA when the driver takes part in their first race and apart from designated sponsorship areas they should have to remain with the same design for every F1 race they then take part in.
I know you're the admin bloke. But c'mon man! Really? It's just helmet colours.

[Tazio]

Toto's take:


It is true that it is not just Bernie Ecclestone, the FIA and teams represented on the F1 Commission, but also sponsors and race promoters.
Wolff explained that while die-hard F1 fans are able to keep up-to-date with the drivers' helmet changes, less regular viewers do not.
He said driver recognition has therefore become an "important" issue.
"So either you put big numbers on the car, which we didn't like, or you make the driver more recognisable with the helmet," the Austrian explained.
"If the promoter thinks that it will help him sell tickets, I think that's a good argument," added Wolff.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns30091.html

Their you have it, They already have us !

[anfield5]

I noticed Sauber at the third test had big(ger) numbers on the side of the car, in a similar position to the Williams picture above

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/81327000/jpg/_81327315_sauber-felipenasr.jpg

[Mark]

That's a nice livery. Kind of retro but clean.

[Rollo]

Isn't the obvious solution to put 40cm numbers on the end plates of the rear wing?

[anfield5]

Isn't the obvious solution to put 40cm numbers on the end plates of the rear wing?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6d/91/b2/6d91b244f8006a417d39a7f6a3d40719.jpg

[CNR]

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/215212/1/fia-formalises-ban-on-helmet-design-changes.html
"The FIA has confirmed what can and cannot be allowed with regards to helmet design changes following a ban ahead of the 2015 F1 season.

Drivers have been told they are unable to make significant changes to the design of their helmets in 2015, the FIA reasoning that it makes it easier for spectators and fans to identify the drivers if they didn't alternate.

Other changes to the regulations include the clarification that drivers will surrender their racing number if they haven't competed for two consecutive seasons.


"

[anfield5]

sounds fair

[AndyL]

Toto's take:


<snip> "So either you put big numbers on the car, which we didn't like, or you make the driver more recognisable with the helmet," the Austrian explained. <snip>

Their you have it, They already have us !

Yes Toto's statement all sounds very logical... I mean any sensible person would take meddling in drivers' helmet choices, which no other race series does, over putting legible numbers on the cars like every other race series has, right? :rolleyes:

[Rollo]

Yes Toto's statement all sounds very logical... I mean any sensible person would take meddling in drivers' helmet choices, which no other race series does, over putting legible numbers on the cars like every other race series has, right? :rolleyes:

The BTCC, WRC and V8Supercars numbers are jokes. A sort of yellowy blob in the rear window. If you're trackside, they're worse than rubbish, they're four letter expleted deleted rubbish.

[AndyL]

The BTCC, WRC and V8Supercars numbers are jokes. A sort of yellowy blob in the rear window. If you're trackside, they're worse than rubbish, they're four letter expleted deleted rubbish.

Oh yes, I did go to a BTCC meeting last year and I'd forgotten about that. The previous time I saw them was in 2010 and they had a large, white number panel on the door back then.

This is the size they ought to be!
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/L_Andy/racing/2013-pickups-36.jpg

[jens]

Arguably the biggest obstacle for big car numbers is sponsorship space. Of course FIA could regulate that some area on the car is mandatory to keep empty for a number. But considering the financial state of F1 and how it has been pretty hard to attract sponsorship recently, teams might be very reluctant to agreeing with something that further narrows their chances of selling car space. Because we want the numbers to be well visible - but a well-visible space is also a good place for a potential sponsor, because they have no reason to put their sticker to somewhere, where it can't be seen!

Can we find a good compromise here?

[Mark]

Arguably the biggest obstacle for big car numbers is sponsorship space. Of course FIA could regulate that some area on the car is mandatory to keep empty for a number. But considering the financial state of F1 and how it has been pretty hard to attract sponsorship recently, teams might be very reluctant to agreeing with something that further narrows their chances of selling car space. Because we want the numbers to be well visible - but a well-visible space is also a good place for a potential sponsor, because they have no reason to put their sticker to somewhere, where it can't be seen!

Can we find a good compromise here?

What about a radical solution? Scrap the rule that says that a teams cars liveries should be substantially the same. Let teams have cars which have an entirely different colour scheme, we wouldn't need helmet identification then.

[Tazio]

I don't think the McTeam principals would go for that. :stareup: ;)

[AndyL]

Arguably the biggest obstacle for big car numbers is sponsorship space. Of course FIA could regulate that some area on the car is mandatory to keep empty for a number. But considering the financial state of F1 and how it has been pretty hard to attract sponsorship recently, teams might be very reluctant to agreeing with something that further narrows their chances of selling car space. Because we want the numbers to be well visible - but a well-visible space is also a good place for a potential sponsor, because they have no reason to put their sticker to somewhere, where it can't be seen!

Can we find a good compromise here?

How about some sort of video-game-like augmented reality solution on the TV coverage:
https://lh3.ggpht.com/DqUapE-RWGWaRKq7xFOQN1RXYVLoUqPuf_Qj00sUGGJGUUAur0Nn-CTjtclLQc6F07k=h400
Doesn't help the fans in the stands of course, but they don't pay Bernie so who cares.

[Warriwa]

I think that is an excellent solution Andy. Drivers would be happy. Teams would be happy. Television audience would be happy. Tracksiders on race day would still have the large screens, admittedly not enough, but generally if you are at the race then that shouldn't be enough to bring you down.

[Rollo]

Arguably the biggest obstacle for big car numbers is sponsorship space.

Let me throw an America at you.

America, which is the land of advertising, generally doesn't have sponsorship on kits of any of its sporting teams and with NASCAR, the numbers are big and helpful. Arguably, the big number is itself a brand - especially if the whole livery changes weekly.