Vettel leaves Red Bull, Kvyat promoted

[dj_bytedisaster]

It's official - Vettel leaves Red Bull (most likely for Ferrari) and the seat goes to Daniil Kvyat.

source RB Website

[Tazio]

Jolly good mate :) Fred could be the odd man out, and just perform practice and other reserve duties while Seb and Kimi might just geat all aryan up in Ferrari and win something :idea:

More likely McLaren Honda are ready to pull a brawn, amd Fred will fight a good teammate for the whole shootin' match...... Easy peasy Japaneasy! :ninja:

[N. Jones]

WOW! I did not expect that!

I think Alonso is off to McLaren and Button is retired. Why would Seb go to Ferrari? They have been bunk for years!

[Tazio]

Because Seb has the luxury of being a 4 time WDC, but also drive for Ferrari!! :dozey:

[dj_bytedisaster]

WOW! I did not expect that!

I think Alonso is off to McLaren and Button is retired. Why would Seb go to Ferrari? They have been bunk for years!

He's been saying for years that he one days want's to drive for Ferrari. Ferrari made a lucrative offer and he has an exit clause in his contract. So he went. He probably lost trust in RB anyway. Frist chassis was cracked, second was bent, 3rd one worked. Team stole a victory at Canada and his car keeps exploding in his face. Add to that that they basically dismantled his trusted inner circle - Newey, Rocky, Handkammer. It's like RB almost tried to push him out.

[ShiftingGears]

I was not expecting that, at all.

[Tazio]

He's been saying for years that he one days want's to drive for Ferrari. Ferrari made a lucrative offer and he has an exit clause in his contract. So he went. He probably lost trust in RB anyway. Frist chassis was cracked, second was bent, 3rd one worked. Team stole a victory at Canada and his car keeps exploding in his face. Add to that that they basically dismantled his trusted inner circle - Newey, Rocky, Handkammer. It's like RB almost tried to push him out.If Ferrari end up with Kimi and Seb it might affect the team very positively or just a little bit posatively and Seb and Kimi can go all ARYAN on therir asses, Ferrari will need that against the likes odf Mercedes and McLaren 20151

[longisland]

Newey said he will have less design input for the new car. Maybe he may tag along with Seb to Ferrari. Then there's a fellow who's still in his fishing trip. The final piece of puzzle will be either Bianchi, Hulk, Ro Gro or Perez as the new Rubens

[Koz]

OMG!!!

Fred to McLaren??
Beiber to Ferrari?!

What is going on?

[Tazio]

Some sneaky shit def going on mate :p:

[Tazio]

Come on quali!!! :(

[janneppi]

So when did Ferrari and Vettel start taking about his new job, was it early as 2013 or just few weeks ago? :)

[Koz]

So when did Ferrari and Vettel start taking about his new job, was it early as 2013 or just few weeks ago? :)

The moment Luca was out?

[truefan72]

I am really not sure what kvyat has done to deserve that RBR seat. to be frank they should have promoted vergne to that seat
oh well

[Tazio]

true you are overjoyed for Alonso mate that is classic!

[rjbetty]

*gets back from long nite at work, logs in*

Ohhh there's nothing interesting... :p

[Warriwa]

He's been saying for years that he one days want's to drive for Ferrari. Ferrari made a lucrative offer and he has an exit clause in his contract. So he went. He probably lost trust in RB anyway. Frist chassis was cracked, second was bent, 3rd one worked. Team stole a victory at Canada and his car keeps exploding in his face. Add to that that they basically dismantled his trusted inner circle - Newey, Rocky, Handkammer. It's like RB almost tried to push him out.

What a load of Bull. Nothing in your post is true. What kind of blind fan boy drugs are you on? The team is not against Vettel and neither is the universe.

[dj_bytedisaster]

What a load of Bull. Nothing in your post is true. What kind of blind fan boy drugs are you on? The team is not against Vettel and neither is the universe.

If anything: Vettel saying he wants to driver for Fezza one day is true. Vettel having an exit clause is true. His car breaking endlessly is true. The team mucking up at Canada is true - they even publically apologized for it. So you post is a lie.

[Warriwa]

My apologies. That was quite a broad statement. I did not mean your entire post. I meant everything you say about the Red Bull team and their relationship with Vettel. They certainly have not abandoned him as you have said in the past. They certainly are not conspiring against him. I have only ever read that Vettel was uncomfortable with the new car, never that the chassis were damaged. Nobody is criticizing him for leaving the team if that is your reason for constantly attacking the team that provided him with the most reliable car on the grid for the past five years.

[rjbetty]

I think the wholw cracked chassis thing is a lie tbh... :/

[steveaki13]

I am happy to see this to be honest. Vettel has done brilliantly at Red Bull and I love seeing drivers move and try new teams. Should be fun.

Disappointed to see Red Bull promoting Kyvat. In my view its a touch early, but hey its their choice.


Where is Alonso going? Mclaren?? That would seem amazing to think of, but its that to take a year out. Which I believe would be a bad thing.

As for Button, I believe he will retire, but maybe just maybe he will grab a one season seat at Lotus or Sauber or something

[The Black Knight]

Can't say that I am that surprise with Vettel, the most overrated driver in the history of F1, jumping ship as soon as the going gets tough. He'll probably struggle at Ferrari as well until such time as he gets the best car again.

Fred off to McLaren. Looks like Button will be sidelined, which I think is sad, a really likeable chap!

[jens]

Yey, I am very happy.:) For many years I have been waiting for and expecting Vettel's departure one day. Because all drivers want new challenges. Now it is the right time, the prime period of Red Bull is over.

Now I also believe more in the claims that Vettel was unmotivated this year, because if you are on your way out of a team, having achieved everything there, it DOES have an effect on you. It is a normal part of sports psychology and motivation.

I also felt Di Montezemolo at Ferrari was getting a bit ancient, so bring on the new great era of Ferrari of fresh blood with new energy, which resurges the team! Mattiacci, Marchianno, Vettel, and others! Success may not come imminently, but long-term!

Detractors can complain as they want, and when one day Ferrari starts winning again, the mission will be accomplished. For many years it was said that Vettel should change teams and prove himself outside "Newey-mobiles". Now he is doing it, we can enjoy!

I have belief in Vettel to build up his new legacy, and may the new Red era flourish. 2014 has been tough, a period of changes. Regulations, and now a team change. But these changes will make him stronger, he is still a young man after all. Alonso is a great loss for Ferrari, but it is time for a new era at Ferrari.:) The new management certainly thinks so!

[jens]

WOW! I did not expect that!

Why would Seb go to Ferrari? They have been bunk for years!

Why would Alonso go to McLaren now? Why did Hamilton go to rubbish Mercedes in 2012? Why did Villeneuve go to BAR? Why did Schumacher go to above average Ferrari back in 1996?

Drivers want new challenges. They are HUMANS after all, and once get bored of status quo. It is almost elementary.

[steveaki13]

Why would Alonso go to McLaren now? Why did Hamilton go to rubbish Mercedes in 2012? Why did Villeneuve go to BAR? Why did Schumacher go to above average Ferrari back in 1996?

Drivers want new challenges. They are HUMANS after all, and once get bored of status quo. It is almost elementary.

You said it Jens.

Not many drivers just stay at one top team in a career.

[jens]

I am really not sure what kvyat has done to deserve that RBR seat. to be frank they should have promoted vergne to that seat
oh well

The same question was what had Ricciardo done before 2014 to get promoted. His best result in Toro Rosso was a mere seventh!

I think Red Bull believes their driver programme produces very good drivers. Obviously it is a gamble to promote this 20-y-o youngster, but lesser gamble than giving an F1 seat to 17-y-o Verstappen.:)

I agree that Vergne could have been a 'safer' bet for the time being, he is already somewhat experienced. But Red Bull thought he is not "good enough". He was going to get ousted from F1 after this year anyway, so would have been weird to promote him now.

[airshifter]

An interesting development to say the least.

If nothing else, it shows just how strong the appeal of Ferrari is for a driver. We all know Seb has options, even though this season hasn't been great for him. But to jump to Ferrari when the current car is what it is.... I think that has a lot to do with the Ferrari legacy in F1. Hopefully it works out for him. If nothing else, we will see how he and Kimi compare in equal cars. I currently think Vettel is the better driver, but after Ricciardo beating him so often this year, I'm still not quite sure where to rank him. He should IMO drive better than Kimi still, as I think Kimi has lost quite a bit in his years away.

It would be interesting to see what happens with Newey. Though the claim is that he will spend more time developing sail boats, Ferrari have made it clear for years they wanted him and have made offers. It would not shock me to find Adrian developing red boats that have tires on each corner. :)

I personally think that the RB will remain the better car for at least next year, as they recovered quite well this season while Ferrari still struggle. But in this day and age, the ranking of the cars can change quickly season to season, so we'll have to wait and see.


As for Kvyat getting the RB seat, it makes sense to me. If he doesn't do well there will still be a line of drivers to replace him, and the gamble with Ricciardo has worked very well so far.

[jens]

If nothing else, it shows just how strong the appeal of Ferrari is for a driver. We all know Seb has options, even though this season hasn't been great for him. But to jump to Ferrari when the current car is what it is.... I think that has a lot to do with the Ferrari legacy in F1. Hopefully it works out for him. If nothing else, we will see how he and Kimi compare in equal cars. I currently think Vettel is the better driver, but after Ricciardo beating him so often this year, I'm still not quite sure where to rank him. He should IMO drive better than Kimi still, as I think Kimi has lost quite a bit in his years away.


Ferrari as a team certainly has appeal for many drivers, though probably not for all as everyone has a bit of a different personality and ideas. I.e Alonso once said McLaren was his "dream team", but it went badly in 2007! For Vettel Ferrari seems to have the kind of appeal though.

Ferrari's car isn't great, but I think after winning four WDCs Vettel doesn't really care. He can follow the dream and knows that he doesn't necessarily need to win WDC every year, having already won many. I believe a young up-and-coming driver or a driver with dissatisfying results (incl Alonso!), who first of all wants to achieve a lot, would be much more critical in evaluating car performance in choosing a team. But a driver, who has accomplished everything, takes it more easily. Let's recall Schumacher's comeback at Mercedes - he was quite relaxed about it and didn't make a big thing of not winning.

I also expect Vettel to beat Räikkönen, but I am unsure, how would the battle evolve. It could be close. Both have struggled this year, further blurring the picture. It could be that Vettel struggles with the new Ferrari car (and so far they have all been hard to drive, like Moto GP Ducati) and somehow Räikkönen has got up-to-speed in it, hence being faster in early 2015. It depends on what James Allison finally delivers as a TD and how much the characteristics of the car change.

But long-term is definitely for younger Vettel. Unless Räikkönen's form significantly improves during 2015, I believe Ferrari is already thinking, who could be his (younger) replacement for 2016. While Vettel is on a multi-year-deal, part of the grand plan of the future of Ferrari.

[zako85]

This is relatively good news. I think Red Bull has just become the coolest team on the grid, and my statement has nothing to do with my support of Vettel. The reason I like Red Bull is that it now constantly promotes young blood to the heights of motorsport, and that's always fun to observe. After the moribund 2010-2013 seasons, where much of the top seat assignments haven't changed much, we can now feel an incredible amount of freshness in the stale driver seat assignments.

Arguably, the most amazing thing happening this season is not the tectonic battle between Hamilton and Rosberg, or their fans on forums, but the surprising discovery of new talents like Ricciardo, Bottas, Kvyat, Magnussen, and Bianchi. This is the new generation of new leading F1 drivers whom we have been awaiting so long.

[dj_bytedisaster]

My apologies. That was quite a broad statement. I did not mean your entire post. I meant everything you say about the Red Bull team and their relationship with Vettel. They certainly have not abandoned him as you have said in the past. They certainly are not conspiring against him. I have only ever read that Vettel was uncomfortable with the new car, never that the chassis were damaged. Nobody is criticizing him for leaving the team if that is your reason for constantly attacking the team that provided him with the most reliable car on the grid for the past five years.

The chassis change after China was explained as a cracked chassis and the change after Monza as 'explained' as a non-disclosed problem with the second one. No team builds three chassis out of boredome.

[Big Ben]

I hope ferrari and vettel will fail miserably together. They most certainly deserve it.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[dj_bytedisaster]

I hope ferrari and vettel will fail miserably together. They most certainly deserve it.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

So you hate yourself and your life, we get that. Care to elaborate?

Sent from North Korea using a Shoe

[zako85]

So you hate yourself and your life, we get that. Care to elaborate?



Any reply to this will deteriorate into an endless flame war. I have learned to respect personal opinions like that as long as they don't contain subjective inflammatory comments such as saying "ferrari and the cheating, whining Vettel".

[The Black Knight]

The sad thing for me about Vettel is that he had his chance this year to show what he could do in a car that was not the best on the grid and he hasn't done it. I never remember a year where Schumacher, Senna or Alonso never gave it everything they had. The great drivers in the sport are always motivated to win and to do the best job with the equipment they have been given, regardless of the team. I understand the lure of Sebastien to Ferrari but, unless he does something amazing next year, like Alonso 2012, those that argue his 4 world titles were down to having the best car on the grid will now always have a very strong case, IMO. Saying that, it's going to be interesting to watch this story develop over the coming seasons. Alonso's position is the most interesting of all! McLaren... Big gamble given the team's current position.

[rjbetty]

Yup I think Sebby needs to do something like Alonso 2012 to justify being called the greatest.

[dj_bytedisaster]

The sad thing for me about Vettel is that he had his chance this year to show what he could do in a car that was not the best on the grid and he hasn't done it.

Schumacher and Senna never had a year where the team needed three attempts to build a chassis that wasn't damaged. Schumacher, Senna and Alonso also weren't publically humiliated by being ordered to move over in the 3rd race of the season. Schumacher, Senna and Alonso also had not have to work with a car that constantly blew up while the team mates' ran like clockwork. The only one familiar with that is Webber and he made the mistake of clinging on until his career washed out. Vettel saw it once and walked out, knowing where this would be going.

[Doc Austin]

The constructors' championship is worth too much money to be sabotaging one of your own cars.

[Big Ben]

The claim that RBR are sabotaging their own driver is worth at least the nomination for the most retarded supposition (presented as the obvious absolute truth of course) ever posted on these forums.

Only God knows how one can actually believe that.



Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[jens]

Yup I think Sebby needs to do something like Alonso 2012 to justify being called the greatest.

It looks like some people are way too concerned. I don't call Vettel the greatest, at least not any more. And I don't care if he is called like that or not. If he can do a sensational season (Senna 93, Schumacher 96-98, Alonso 12), well, then awesome. If not, I will also be happy if he just drives well and is among top drivers. Let's take F1 for what it is and not be overconcerned about some criterias.:)

I like it when in F1 there are many top drivers, who are performing well at a similar level.

[Tazio]

I hope ferrari and vettel will fail miserably together. They most certainly deserve it.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
I predict Ferrari come good with Seb, and Kimi, and I don't understand such negativity toward Seb. I didn't like it that he knocked off Fred-meat 4 years in a row, but by all outward appearances Seb has finally turned into a pretty chill slice of pork chop. Dj is right although his phrasing is a little harsh. My take on Ben's post (who I have nothing against as a member) is:
haters gonna' hate
Seb will win a WDC at Ferrari within the next 3 years. JMHO dawgs

[veeten]

No, the real reason that Vettel is done with Red Bull is two words...

Daniel Riccairdo.

The new chassis was supposed to be a crowning achievement for Red Bull in this new era. But, as Vettel couldn't get to grips with it, Riccairdo made it dance, sing, and tell jokes. Wins and podium finishes later, it was Daniel, and not Seb, that is in the challenge for the WDC.
Don't be surprised if Newey et al decide to stick around to continue improvements on the car for next season, especially without Herr Markko around.

[steveaki13]

Sorry Rj, but who is calling Vettel the greatest?

He is a Great, but not the Greatest

[jens]

Seb will win a WDC at Ferrari within the next 3 years. JMHO dawgs

Imagine the outrage if this happened. Alonso had to wait and drive great all these years. And then gets pushed aside for Vettel, who YET AGAIN gets lucky with the best car on the grid. The outrage would exceed current Hamilton/Rosberg tensions, which would be looked back as a great refreshing rivalry.:D

But even if Ferrari one day has the best car again and Vettel again wins. Is he the undescribably lucky undeserving X-times (lost count!) WDC? Or is he a true genius, who can pick the right teams and help them build up well?

... Myself think that maybe expecting Seb to win a WDC is optimistic. But perhaps he at least can win some races during those 3 years.:) And perhaps not be too far off a title contention. I know I have to be supremely realistic, because F1 goes in cycles and it is very hard to overcome some dominant forces. We had the march of Red Bull, now the march of Mercedes. These are long-term tendencies and Ferrari still has a mountain to climb to create "their era".

[Tazio]

Jens I don't see it as being outrages in regard to Alonso. Every team he has gone to after abandoning a WDC situation at Renault has gone to shit. He may be destined to just always make the wrong moves, a day late and a dollar short. But Fred is Fred and he is the best. Whether he wins any more WDC doesn't change the fact that he is the best. Plus he gets so much fine pussy it's freakin' ridiculous., Dawg He is loving life, who can blame him for wanting to get away from a team he gave his last drop of blood for.
Long live Fred :champion:

[Mia 01]

You are up to your best standard as usual T.

[Tazio]

You are up to your best standard as usual T.I'll take that as you, totally coming on to me :love:
Actually I don't believe Fred (and I might be really naïve) would sign off on Honda/McLaren/ cross cultural arrangement at Woking un less he is convinced that Honda-Mac have a leg up! McLaren Technologies will, I believe start providing proprietary electrnic parts that he will only run on Ron's Macs. It is just like Seb and Kimi being the driving force at Ferrari. They will let the Italian/multinational technical team give them a car, and then it is up to a couple northern European type dawgz to jell as Ferrari want two guys to do well not one with a superior attitude situation!
Cheers Mia

[rjbetty]

Schumacher and Senna never had a year where the team needed three attempts to build a chassis that wasn't damaged. Schumacher, Senna and Alonso also weren't publically humiliated by being ordered to move over in the 3rd race of the season. Schumacher, Senna and Alonso also had not have to work with a car that constantly blew up while the team mates' ran like clockwork. The only one familiar with that is Webber and he made the mistake of clinging on until his career washed out. Vettel saw it once and walked out, knowing where this would be going.

Dj I´m not sure where you´re getting the damaged chassis from. I remember Vettel and the team said the first change was more for peace of mind than anything else.

Dan´s car has NOT run like clockwork!! I also don't think Vettel´s reliability, 3 DNFs in 14 races, is really that much worse than say Hamilton´s.

I wish Vettel stayed one more year to prove if he´s definitely the best current driver and if he´s simply been hugely held back his year, for whatever reason. :/

[Tazio]

..

[Doc Austin]

I can see that everyone is ready for the race.

Or something.

[Storm]

:rolleyes:

[steveaki13]

:rolleyes:

I know, needless and boring. :dozey:

[Big Ben]

Vettel finally has a competitive team mate and he runs away. People may find excuses for him this year but another one like this one and he starts becoming one of the greatest indeed... One of the greatest frauds.

And Ferrari after having probably the best driver in f1, that gave it all even if the cars got worse every year goes on and push him aside for... Vettel. That sort of decisions explain why they are where they are. Now they have a driver that loses motivation when he doesn't have a dominant car and needs new challenges... Or so goes the excuse these days.. except for that one guy who says vettel's car has only 3 wheels or something like that.

I wish them to fail together because that's divine justice.

[Doc Austin]

Vettel finally has a competitive team mate and he runs away.

Accepting a drive at Ferrari is now considered "running away?"

[steveaki13]

Of course Schumacher was running away from Benetton in 1996 :arrowed:

[jens]

Of course Schumacher was running away from Benetton in 1996 :arrowed:

The moving goalposts never seem to amaze. Usually when a top driver joins a bad team it is said that "wow, what a brave man, he takes a huge risk/decision, it may go badly!" Like Schumacher at Ferrari, Villeneuve at BAR, Hamilton at Mercedes, and so on.

But now it turns out Vettel has run away from a good car, and will go and enjoy a chill life in rubbish car! What a loser! He has no motivation and doesn't want to win and goes to a rubbish car to hide himself! Weak!

For years people were saying he should go and "prove" himself outside Red Bull and now what?
To be honest, my head explodes. I even don't understand the anti-Vettel/Ferrari arguments. Never mind...

[jens]

The Great Story of Sebastian Vettel

Vettel wants to have an easy life. He wants to have the best car. He wants to have no strong team-mate. Vettel's dream was fulfilled, for many years he had the best car, and not the best team-mate. But then a problem arrived. Vettel's car wasn't suddenly the best any more, and team-mate was too good.

Vettel was in panic, but suddenly a change came in his mind. „I will go to Ferrari! They don't have the best car, but at least there is no Ricciardo! And once I have pushed Alonso out too, there will be nobody! Pushing Alonso out is easy. He doesn't like to be there. I just have to lie to him that there is an open seat at Red Bull ready for HIM, so he moves away and I can take his Ferrari seat once he is left out in cold!“

Vettel wants to have a chill and easy life. Once he can't get the best car, he'll just go and sit in a rubbish one. At least there is no pressure and no motivation! Despite Millions of Tifosi all over the world wanting him to win, even demanding wins. Vettel finishes 10th and all the Tifosi scream that Alonso would have finished 5th and was much better! However, Vettel is happy - „at least here is no Ricciardo, let alone Hamilton or Alonso with me right here!“

Tifosi want to put a lot of pressure on Vettel, but the German is unfazed by the criticism - „If you don't have the best car, how can you win? As long as the car is not the best, it is not possible to win! What do you not understand? Give me the best car and I'll win. As long as the car is not the best, I don't win. Clear?“

Tifosi were left unconvinced, though they had already been used to Ferrari not winning and understood the car really wasn't very good, even Alonso could not win in it. Two years pass, 2015 and 2016 with Vettel being nowhere. Everyone has forgotten he even exists, while Hamilton, Rosberg, Ricciardo, Alonso, Kvyat, Bottas, and others fight for wins.

Then comes 2017 winter testing. Something amazing is happening. Ferrari is fast right out of the box. James Allison as the technical director has done a great job, Ferrari has improved the power unit. Everything is coming together. Ferrari amazes everyone with the speed. However, other teams are already falling apart. Hamilton and Rosberg have conflict in Mercedes, so the team has collapsed. Red Bull has lost Newey and it is collapsing. Alonso fell out with Ron Dennis again. But everything is suddenly all right in Ferrari.

Vettel is supremely fast in winter testing. The season starts. Vettel takes win after win. He again has the best car! Ricciardo, Hamilton, Alonso, Rosberg – all shake their head in disbelief. „How can a man be so lucky? What the hell can we do?!“ Nothing! All the Tifosi are happy, they don't care about the past struggles of Alonso any more, not even the de-motivated Vettel of past years. „We like winning, and Vettel gives us wins – The Man who likes the Best Car!"

„I am so lucky. Again I have the best car. And a rubbish team-mate. Life is so nice. Who thought F1 could be so easy?“ ponders Vettel with a smile, preparing to celebrate his 5th and after that also 6th World Drivers Championship crown. Vettel is already part of F1's hall of fame, and will be added to Ferrari's hall of fame as well. He will go into the history as a Legend of Luck, but at least Tifosi have fond memories of winning and are happy that Ferrari managed to re-surrect it brand by building the best cars again.

[The Black Knight]

The moving goalposts never seem to amaze. Usually when a top driver joins a bad team it is said that "wow, what a brave man, he takes a huge risk/decision, it may go badly!" Like Schumacher at Ferrari, Villeneuve at BAR, Hamilton at Mercedes, and so on.

But now it turns out Vettel has run away from a good car, and will go and enjoy a chill life in rubbish car! What a loser! He has no motivation and doesn't want to win and goes to a rubbish car to hide himself! Weak!

For years people were saying he should go and "prove" himself outside Red Bull and now what?
To be honest, my head explodes. I even don't understand the anti-Vettel/Ferrari arguments. Never mind...

Well the car Vettel is driving has won 3 races so far this year in the hands of Ricciardo. The simple fact is that Vettel hasn't been able to live with Ricciardo and I think that's what he is running from. To me, this year was the real chance he had to prove himself. I've never seen a top driver struggle like he has this year in his hayday. Do you think Alonso, Senna or Schumacher would have struggled with the RBR like Vettel has this year in their prime? I doubt it very much.

I honestly hope that Vettel does prove himself at Ferrari. I think it's important for the sport because as it stands right now it just looks like a just about above average driver won 4 WDC's in a row. Of course we all know he's a fantastic driver but there are plenty of fantastic drivers out there to never have won a WDC. If you ask me is Vettel worth a Championship I'd say yes he definitely belongs to the WDC crop. Does he belong to the 3 or 4 time WDC crop based on current evidence? Absolutely not.

I honestly don't believe I am moving any goalposts. If he proves himself like Alonso, Schumacher and Senna did, well and good, and I hope he does, but I think most peoples opinion of Vettel based on this year has dropped quite significantly.

[jens]

The Great Story of Luck: Sebastian Vettel, Part II

Not much has been written, what was happening behind the scenes during 2015-16, when Vettel and Ferrari were struggling and they were nowhere. Vettel came to Ferrari. The boss Mattiacci told him: „You know we are under enormous pressure, the Tifosi and all the Italy want us to win. But we have not won for a long time.“ Vettel calmed the pressure: „Do not worry, once you build the best car, we will be winning, no probs!“

Years passed, but nobody saw the best car, or even a car, which is close to the front. The World concentrated on the battle of other teams and drivers at the front, while Tifosi were left singing songs of old folklore – some still remembered the Great Days of Schumacher, who did all the winning. Older Tifosi still remember him. However, younger Tifosi have only seen losing, but they are told encouragingly - „don't worry sons, one day we shall win again!“ But there was no hope – car was not good, and Vettel is not a good driver. Hopeless situation.

But work was going on behind the scenes. Some people in the team were demanding that Ferrari should hire a top driver, not a joke like Vettel. Technical team staff said - „Look, this guy can do nothing in our cars. Hire a proper fast driver and we will get results!“ But Marco Mattiacci, the team boss, who was behind the idea of sacking Alonso and hiring Vettel, remained firm - „We could not win with Alonso. No other driver can help us! You know you have to build a better car. You have to!“

In secrecy Mattiacci however knew no top driver wanted to join Ferrari, since they were rubbish. So they had to sign Vettel, and now struggle together with him nowhere, while the others are doing the winning. Ferrari can't even sign a strong driver alongside Vettel, first it is the aging and hopelessly-past Raikkonen, and later in 2016 Bianchi, who had come back amazingly well from his hard crash, but couldn't live up to hype and expectations. So Vettel was still easily the #1 driver in the team.

But Mattiacci gave a demand and final ultimatum to technical director James Allison - „For the last time, build the best car. How hard can it be? We have the money, we have the facilities, we have the tradition, we have everything. Once you do it, everything will be all right! You see even the Tifosi have lost hope.“

But finally Ferrari's situation was getting better. Before 2017 a whole lot changed. Some more technical people were coming to Ferrari since Mercedes and Red Bull were collapsing. James Allison had finally built up foundations for a strong team. Ferrari finally understood how to build hybrid engines. Ferrari considered hiring other drivers instead of Vettel, but Vettel objected: „I promise you that once you deliver a better car, I will deliver the results. See, I have proof – I have four World Championship titles. If you have the car, I will do the business.“

Ferrari and Tifosi were left unconvinced, but once the new super-car arrived on track, they were overjoyed. They were amazed. „Look, this is like Schumacher all over again!“ said the older Tifosi. Vettel was like on rails on track, the car was so good with so much grip it was unbelievable. Mercedes pulled out of F1, Honda still had blown engines, and Renault was underpowered. But Ferrari was great. Suddenly Hamilton and Ricciardo knocked on Ferrari's doors, even Alonso wanted to come back, but Mattiacci replied - „We have a winning team, we should not change it. Where were you, when we were at the back? At least Vettel was loyal to us all the way through hardships.“

Vettel was winning the championships. Tifosi were glad that the ever-lasting hardships were finally over. Huge fanclubs of Vettel emerged with huge banners at grandstands all over the world:
„The Great Sebastian Vettel – The Man who likes the Best Car!
Give him the Best Car and he will Do the Winning!“

In an interview in 2018, on the brink of winning the sixth World Championship, Vettel admits that many people are jealous of him, not least rival drivers. „I know I am lucky. But I like to think you make your own luck. You must know what you want from life. And if you really want it you can get it. I wanted the best cars!“

[jens]

The simple fact is that Vettel hasn't been able to live with Ricciardo and I think that's what he is running from.

So what should he do? Stay in Red Bull as long as he finally beats Ricciardo? If he never beats Ricciardo, then what? He would be wasting his time there. He wants to drive for Ferrari, and once opportunity has risen, he could go there.

Running away from team-mates usually doesn't work, because it is highly likely you will get another high-class team-mate in another team, especially if it is a top team. Alonso ran away from Hamilton and hasn't won World Titles since then. It is highly likely if you base your career on running away from team-mates, you will get nowhere in your F1 career. So you have to base your F1 career on other goals.

[zako85]

Vettel finally has a competitive team mate and he runs away. People may find excuses for him this year but another one like this one and he starts becoming one of the greatest indeed... One of the greatest frauds.

And Ferrari after having probably the best driver in f1, that gave it all even if the cars got worse every year goes on and push him aside for... Vettel. That sort of decisions explain why they are where they are. Now they have a driver that loses motivation when he doesn't have a dominant car and needs new challenges... Or so goes the excuse these days.. except for that one guy who says vettel's car has only 3 wheels or something like that.

I wish them to fail together because that's divine justice.



IMO, the real reason Vettel is joining Ferrari is because Alonso leaving. I doubt Ferrari really wanted or needed to do the swap. Most likely, Alonso got sick of Ferrari, and he knows that Ferrari will not improve the next season. Ferrari is in the middle of restructuring which may take years. Time is running out for Alonso, and so he is willing to throw the dice and move into another team. Once he made this decision, that opened the doors for Vettel. Vettel has been saying for a while that his dream is to drive in Ferrari. There is nothing left for him prove at RBR. On the other hand, winning a title with Ferrari, even if it takes years, could be considered a significant accomplishment.

[Big Ben]

that may be but McLaren doesn't really look like a step up right now... but whatever. Jens seems to have lost his mind over this so I don't want to have that on my hands. So I take it all back and wish you a nice day.

[Storm]

You never know. Perhaps the Honda power-plant is better or on par with Mercedes. (wishful thinking yeah)

[AndyL]

You never know. Perhaps the Honda power-plant is better or on par with Mercedes. (wishful thinking yeah)

The Honda engine isn't going to save McLaren, given that they already have the best engine. Honda money might.

[Doc Austin]

If Vettel is running away from a fast teammate, what's the point of going to where Kimmi is?

All this talk of running away was put to sleep yesterday when Vettel beat Ricciardo in a straight fight.

[Storm]

The Honda engine isn't going to save McLaren, given that they already have the best engine. Honda money might.

Are we sure that the exact thing on the Mercedes GP team is also on the McLaren car? Engine, Software, ERS/KERS etc?

[AndyL]

Are we sure that the exact thing on the Mercedes GP team is also on the McLaren car? Engine, Software, ERS/KERS etc?

The rules do stipulate that each engine manufacturer can only provide one specification of power unit. So hardware-wise they should definitely be the same (give or take any "reliability" enhancements that have been made since they last took a new engine). Whether that includes the control software, I don't know.

[Storm]

I read somewhere (a link was on the forums infact) that Ron Dennis was complaining (sweetly) about NOT having the same s/w that Merc has..so that could be the trick.

[Warriwa]

If Vettel is running away from a fast teammate, what's the point of going to where Kimmi is?

All this talk of running away was put to sleep yesterday when Vettel beat Ricciardo in a straight fight.


I agree that Vettel is not running from Ricco. He is a great driver and the move to Ferrari is a new challenge as he says. From my point of view it is a win win move for Vettel. He is confident enough he won't be bothered by kimi and if he doesn't bring home a championship the car was a piece of crap. However, I don't agree that Vettel was quicker in Japan. Ricco was held up by a Williams on the out lap after the first change which allowed Vettel to jump them both. Then RB banked on rain coming early and kept Ricco out. Ricco had Vettel's measure all weekend. He was closing him down very quickly at the end of the race before the accident.

[Zico]

Vettel finally has a competitive team mate and he runs away. People may find excuses for him this year but another one like this one and he starts becoming one of the greatest indeed... One of the greatest frauds.

And Ferrari after having probably the best driver in f1, that gave it all even if the cars got worse every year goes on and push him aside for... Vettel. That sort of decisions explain why they are where they are. Now they have a driver that loses motivation when he doesn't have a dominant car and needs new challenges... Or so goes the excuse these days.. except for that one guy who says vettel's car has only 3 wheels or something like that.

I wish them to fail together because that's divine justice.



Fernando seemed quite smug and all knowing when asked about Vettels move to Ferrari at Suzuka, it made me wonder if it was actually him who set the merry go round in motion.

[jens]

While all the attention has been on top drivers, while they are now shockingly moving around, Kvyat has been left without much attention.

I wanted to say something. His rise to the front of the F1 field (where he will likely be in 2015 in probably a decent Red Bull car) has been mesmerizing. Just one year ago he was unlikely to make a move into F1, while he was busy winning GP3 series and wasn't even in GP2/FR3.5, which are the series drivers usually graduate into F1. Then he was surprisingly hired into F1, and now hired into a top team (Red Bull). How will he do? All while he is going to have enormous pressure from Max Verstappen, who threatens to make a mesmerizing rise by himself...

[Doc Austin]

Vettel leaving Red Bull just doesn't seem right, much like Alonso leaving Ferrari. It's going to be a bizarre off-season.

[The Black Knight]

Vettel leaving Red Bull just doesn't seem right, much like Alonso leaving Ferrari. It's going to be a bizarre off-season.

Vettel has never said he is actually going to Ferrari. I heard a time today that he might actually be going to Mclaren. See my post in Hamilton to Mac thread. It would make more sense to me that he goes to McLaren over Ferrari. So could it be a Vettel Alonso lineup at Woking next year?

[AndyL]

Vettel has never said he is actually going to Ferrari. I heard a time today that he might actually be going to Mclaren. See my post in Hamilton to Mac thread. It would make more sense to me that he goes to McLaren over Ferrari. So could it be a Vettel Alonso lineup at Woking next year?

He told his bosses he was going to Ferrari though didn't he? Horner and Marko have both said it.

[The Black Knight]

He told his bosses he was going to Ferrari though didn't he? Horner and Marko have both said it.

That's what they say but he hasn't. They might be assuming he is going to Ferrari and maybe we're all fools for believing them. I can't see what the Ferrari lure is right now for Vettel to be honest. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that wants to do it the hard way. Apparently the Honda Engine is going to be massive and they are really putting huge effort into it. Honda have had a lot of technical freedom. I'm not saying it's a done deal but I wouldn't be too surprised if both he and Alonso go to McLaren.

This would leave the big question of who would go to Ferrari? Given the current state of Ferrari, they might try and lure Button over for a year and replace Kimi with Hamilton in 2016. There has been recent contact between Hamilton and Ferrari.

[AndyL]

That's what they say but he hasn't. They might be assuming he is going to Ferrari and maybe we're all fools for believing them. I can't see what the Ferrari lure is right now for Vettel to be honest.

Marko's statement was something along the lines that it'd be hard to accept Vettel leaving if he were going to a team like Mercedes [i.e. a team without the romantic appeal of Ferrari], but that wasn't the case. I didn't get the impression that he was making an assumption about where Vettel was going, he seemed certain. As you say we can't know for sure what was said behind closed doors of course.

[The Black Knight]

Marko's statement was something along the lines that it'd be hard to accept Vettel leaving if he were going to a team like Mercedes [i.e. a team without the romantic appeal of Ferrari], but that wasn't the case. I didn't get the impression that he was making an assumption about where Vettel was going, he seemed certain. As you say we can't know for sure what was said behind closed doors of course.

Well I can tell ya that Vettel recently visited Woking and so did Alonso. If Vettel's Ferrari deal was a done thing I doubt very much he'd be visiting Woking. I have a feeling that things could be turned up on their head and it could be Alonso and Vettel in McLaren. Interesting to see what happens. I think Alonso would destroy him, of course, but it'd be an interesting combination.

[AndyL]

Well I can tell ya that Vettel recently visited Woking and so did Alonso. If Vettel's Ferrari deal was a done thing I doubt very much he'd be visiting Woking. I have a feeling that things could be turned up on their head and it could be Alonso and Vettel in McLaren. Interesting to see what happens. I think Alonso would destroy him, of course, but it'd be an interesting combination.

Any team that puts two potential champions together is in for "interesting times," as the Chinese curse goes. Toto Wolff is finding that out :) I thought Ferrari would be having the same problems, but fortunately for them Kimi has decided to be a bit rubbish for the good of the team this year.

[Tazio]

Well I can tell ya that Vettel recently visited Woking and so did Alonso. If Vettel's Ferrari deal was a done thing I doubt very much he'd be visiting Woking. I have a feeling that things could be turned up on their head and it could be Alonso and Vettel in McLaren. Interesting to see what happens. I think Alonso would destroy him, of course, but it'd be an interesting combination.
Well mate I think you are actually on to something here:


http://www.inautonews.com/vettel-still-not-naming-2015-employer#.VDaUKzgtBjoSebastian
Vettel announced his shock departure from Red Bull, and everyone – including his current employer – simply assumed he would be heading to Ferrari.
Ferrari, however, has been completely silent on the issue ever since, despite deafening speculation it is replacing Fernando Alonso with Vettel.
But nothing has been announced.
Again, on Thursday in the shiny new Sochi paddock, Ferrari is saying nothing.
And neither is German Vettel.
“I have nothing new to say,” he told reporters in Russia, “but I hope to announce something soon.
“When the thing is out, you are probably clever enough to understand why I had to wait,” Maybe Bernie has offered....well....bribes might be to strong of a term ;), let's say incentives to teams, and certain drivers to keep F1 fans interested, since the WCC could have been decided last week, and most certainly will be this week Ha! just kidding although I wouldn't put it past the little worm! The fact is Seb and RB have acknowledged he's leaving. I suspect that this whole thing hinges on Fred's negotiations with McLaren, possibly his negotiations with Mercedes 2016, and with the possibility that he would take a sabbatical to shag more McBabes for one season if Ferrari are intent on looking like complete fools again to pay a guy big bucks not to race :p: :angel:

[Bagwan]

Hey , Tazzy , maybe one of them is looking at property in the US .

Who needs a project , and a year off to work on it ?

[Tazio]

:stareup: Seb could probably be a pretty good country junk-baller in MLB with that wicked finger pitch. Fred should look into being a swimming pool volleyball instructor for Hef' at "The Mansion". Of course Flavio will be welcome as well as your boy Roman Polanski :angel:

[airshifter]

Vettel leaving Red Bull just doesn't seem right, much like Alonso leaving Ferrari. It's going to be a bizarre off-season.

Agree on both counts. The RB is actually a fairly strong car this year and going anywhere could be risky for Seb. And though I can't for a second question why Alonso is leaving Ferrari, it's a shame they didn't produce on their end of the deal. Fernando has that passion and drive that fit Ferrari perfectly, he just doesn't have the car.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Agree on both counts. The RB is actually a fairly strong car this year and going anywhere could be risky for Seb. And though I can't for a second question why Alonso is leaving Ferrari, it's a shame they didn't produce on their end of the deal. Fernando has that passion and drive that fit Ferrari perfectly, he just doesn't have the car.

The thing is, RB has "shiny object syndrome". When Seb came in in 2009 and gave them their first win (after doing the same for the B team the year before), all flocked around him and Webber's car was a mere afterthought. The same thing happened this year. Danny Ricciardo came in, was better than expected, while Vettel struggled to adapt to the car and was immediately relegated to team mascot while everyone flocked around RIC. The most telling detail was that Danny got to drive both days at the first in-season test. Not only was RB the only top team to not run both drivers IIRC, for Vettel, who needed track time more than anything at that point, it was a slap in the face with a wet fish. And it's been downhill from there.
He would have won Canada had the team not messed up the strategy. They acknwledged that and apologized for it, but it doesn't change the fact that Danny inherited the win and Vettel ended up being ridiculed by the mob in the cheap seats. Without him being shafted by the safety car in Hungary, we could just as well talk about a 2-1 win ratio right now. He was ahead of RIC there too until the SC.
I think his leaving has three reasons. First, he lost the trust in the team and doesn't want to end up like Webber. Second, many people who were part of his winning ways (Newey, Rocky, Handkammer, Prodomou) are gone or promoted out of the way. Third, there is an opening at another top team (most likely Ferrari) that might not be there next year, so he takes the opportunity.

After six years he wanted to do something else. It's legitimate and something people have demanded of him for years. Now that he does it, they say he runs away. Seriously, if he could walk on water, people would say 'look, the bugger can't even swim'.

As for Fernando - he didn't leave Ferrari, he was sacked. He doesn't get along with Marchione and Matiacchi, as both don't like him much. It was reported that he had a talk with Matiacchi in Suzuka and stormed out of it calling the boss some unprintable names. Twenty-four hours later Seb announces he's leaving Red Bull. You do the math.

I think Vettel is the correct man for Ferrari. He works pretty much like his childhood hero - Schumacher. And the two previous strong era's of Ferrari were with Lauda and Schumacher. Maybe they need some teutonic element among all that mediterranean passion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dominicali come back, too. It was reportedly tension with Alonso that pushed him out. Fernando is a helluva driver, most likely the best there is, but he's an egomaniac and a lousy team leader.

[Zico]

Interesting view from Maurice Hamilton, who suggests it could be Alonso and Vettel at McLaren next year. He made the point that only Horner said Vettel was going to Ferrari, not Vettel or Ferrari.
McLaren must now be the best funded of the non manufacturer teams thanks to the Honda partnership and they could no doubt afford both Alonso and Vettel. I just can't see it though, Vettel signing up to play second fiddle to Alonso? Nah, that I think that would be a bad move seeing as he has clearly found Ricciardo to be more than a match for him.

[TheFamousEccles]

After six years he wanted to do something else. It's legitimate and something people have demanded of him for years. Now that he does it, they say he runs away. Seriously, if he could walk on water, people would say 'look, the bugger can't even swim'.

I couldn't agree more.

[zako85]

If we buy into the story that RBR is now favoring young blood more, it's still very hard to understand Vettel's utter lack of motivation and fighting spirit, both on the track and within the team. He didn't even make it into Q3 on Saturday. His said in interview that they were slow, and that's that. Possibly a problem with rear axle. No excuses...

I just don't get it. Shouldn't have Vettel with all his experience know how get the team to setup the car right?

[Tazio]

zak' Seb is just a footnote, try to top the bomb that fred and his "people" are going to drop on F1..............................................ma te!!!

[jens]

If we buy into the story that RBR is now favoring young blood more, it's still very hard to understand Vettel's utter lack of motivation and fighting spirit, both on the track and within the team. He didn't even make it into Q3 on Saturday. His said in interview that they were slow, and that's that. Possibly a problem with rear axle. No excuses...

I just don't get it. Shouldn't have Vettel with all his experience know how get the team to setup the car right?

I guess he can't wait for the season to end at this stage now... It must be a unique situation for him. For the first time ever he has nothing to fight for at the end of the season - Mercedes is well out of reach, Ricciardo is also well ahead in points. Also he is leaving the team. Must be demoralizing.

[jens]

Agree on both counts. The RB is actually a fairly strong car this year and going anywhere could be risky for Seb.

If you argue rationally, you may indeed reach that conclusion. But Vettel doesn't argue rationally, he follows his heart and wants to "spice up his life" with new things. I think we should all try to recall our own life experiences and find that once comes a time, when we can have enough/got bored of some things, even if before reaching that "limit" we thought they were pretty good!

I remember already in 2010 I thought that Hamilton leaving McLaren may happen a few years later. For the last few years I have thought it is only a matter of time before Vettel leaves Red Bull. I am a big believer that a top driver usually likes to change athmosphere. It doesn't mean they are going to do it all the time, i.e Hamilton now moving away from Mercedes, but they feel they need to make a significant change at least once. But Hamilton and Vettel have made one big change in their careers, and I believe both are happy to have made it to move away from their "youthhood homes" and experience different lives.

There are a few exceptions, like Mika Häkkinen. Partly because he had to wait for his success for so many years that when he finally got it it was really enjoyable and there was no need for crazy career changes any more, when he was above 30 already. And partly because of his character and upbringing - he didn't "grow up" with McLaren, he joined them later, and once he lost motivation, he decided to leave F1 altogether instead of joining another team.

So in short - give a few more years and Ricciardo will start looking at what to do beyond Red Bull. He will likely be gone from the Red Bull family by the year of 2020 at the very latest.

----

Motivation in a racing driver is a complicated thing. I don't think it is reflected on the circuit itself, because I believe racing is what they instinctively like to do and when they go wheel-to-wheel with anybody, they like to fight hard. Doesn't matter if you are going to leave the team or which car you drive, battling with rivals and driving the car is still the same thing!

However, I think motivation aspect comes in behind the scenes, perhaps in more mundane aspects of the job of a racing driver - preparing for a weekend, working with the team on the car, etc. I think de-motivated drivers are more prone to having "setup issues", because their heart is not so much in trying to fine-tune all the details till late hours. I remember in the past years Vettel was credited by some insiders for working late hours to try to get a perfect car.

They are obviously all professionals, so I don't think they'd now suddenly skip working on the car altogether and lazily sit around the garage all day. But perhaps it can be interpreted in such way that they don't put in that extra 12th hour at the expense of free time!

[Ranger]

More importantly, are any technical and executive staff moving to Ferrari?

Changing one driver will not change their fortunes.

Vettel might get lucky like Hamilton did when he moved to Mercedes but I'm not sure.

[Bezza]

This is the strangest “silly season” I can remember.

Vettel announces he is leaving Red Bull
It is reported but not confirmed that he is going to Ferrari
It is reported but not confirmed that Alonso’s contract has been cancelled with Ferrari

McLaren are key to this mess, and it is really intriguing. I can’t quite work it all out to be honest!

My guesses would be, a lot of musical chairs and someone significant without a seat!

Mercedes – Hamilton & Rosberg
Red Bull – Ricciardo & Kyvat
Ferrari – Vettel & Raikkonen
Williams – Bottas & Button
McLaren – Alonso & Magnussen

The surprise there is Button to Williams. But if he leaves McLaren, at a similar age to Massa and lets be honest he is a much better driver, then Williams would be silly not to hire him. They could have been much closer to 2nd in the constructors this season if Button was reliably bringing the car home, rather than Massa’s many crashes and mistakes.

[SGWilko]

Would Alonso feel a short term contract with Lotus (and Mercedes power) a better solution while he waits to see if Honda are any good, or if Lewis leaves Merc in 2016?

[AndyL]

Sky were reporting yesterday that Alonso told Spanish media he would not be using a Mercedes engine next year. Can anyone confirm that? It would rule out the Lotus possibility.

[jens]

More importantly, are any technical and executive staff moving to Ferrari?

Changing one driver will not change their fortunes.

Vettel might get lucky like Hamilton did when he moved to Mercedes but I'm not sure.

Someone very close to Vettel went to Ferrari, like a race engineer, but about some major staff in the factory I don't know. It is said though that 2015 is the first car with full James Allison input, but we will see.

Interestingly 2014 Ferrari chassis may not be that bad, but it is badly let down by the power unit, which is not only behind Mercedes, but also Renault. Hence we do not have a good idea, how good potential the chassis might have. So Ferrari has a lot of work to do to improve the power unit and to achieve that they should properly reform the engine department, but I don't have an idea, what are the developments there except former engine chief Luca Marmorini was let go this summer and a new guy put in place instead of him.

The worst days for Ferrari may be over. Starting a new regulations era is always difficult, especially if you get it wrong. 2009 was also bad for Ferrari, but they were somewhat better in the subsequent seasons. However, even if Ferrari is somewhat better in the next few seasons, it still seems like a tall order to catch Mercedes, like it was hard to surpass Red Bull in aerodynamics in the past years.

[Tazio]

Would Alonso feel a short term contract with Lotus (and Mercedes power) a better solution while he waits to see if Honda are any good, or if Lewis leaves Merc in 2016?Lotus may not suit him, I think Fred is one of a select group of pilots that actually expects remuneration for his services. :dozey: :angel:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Someone very close to Vettel went to Ferrari, like a race engineer, but about some major staff in the factory I don't know. It is said though that 2015 is the first car with full James Allison input, but we will see.


Kenny Handkammer, the chief engineer, who was sacked on the spot in Suzuka goes to Ferrari. And Vettel's former race engineer at Toro Rosso, the one who oversaw his first win at Monza '08, is Maranello-bound, too.

[jens]

Kenny Handkammer, the chief engineer, who was sacked on the spot in Suzuka goes to Ferrari. And Vettel's former race engineer at Toro Rosso, the one who oversaw his first win at Monza '08, is Maranello-bound, too.

Yeah.
For truly succeeding I do think Ferrari needs to further strengthen its technical team. However, the new management of Ferrari has barely taken control in the office, so I guess it takes time before they make those changes.

It was clear that the former management led by Domenicali (and Di Montezemolo) was too conservative and it cost them dearly. Already before this season Ferrari usually brought out evolutionary cars, which were "safe" in terms of bullet-proof reliability, but often lacking ultimate speed. This mentality of stagnation has been properly found out in the new regs era. For Ferrari to succeed, their whole team needs a proper re-adjustment in car design philosophy. Hopefully there is will in the new management to make those changes, but it could take few years before they take full effect.

[N. Jones]

Well.... about Alonso "not going to a Mercedes powered team"....

McLaren will be using Honda next year...

[veeten]

Kenny Handkammer, the chief engineer, who was sacked on the spot in Suzuka goes to Ferrari. And Vettel's former race engineer at Toro Rosso, the one who oversaw his first win at Monza '08, is Maranello-bound, too.

Not too unusual, nor original. Remember mid 90's, when Herr Schumacher et al left Team Bennetton to join Ferrari, and by late 90's-early 2000's how first the car and later both car & driver started winning?

[veeten]

... and, it seems, Daniel doesn't have too much of a problem with this whole thing either.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116386

[The Black Knight]

Interesting view from Maurice Hamilton, who suggests it could be Alonso and Vettel at McLaren next year. He made the point that only Horner said Vettel was going to Ferrari, not Vettel or Ferrari.
McLaren must now be the best funded of the non manufacturer teams thanks to the Honda partnership and they could no doubt afford both Alonso and Vettel. I just can't see it though, Vettel signing up to play second fiddle to Alonso? Nah, that I think that would be a bad move seeing as he has clearly found Ricciardo to be more than a match for him.

I said that a few pages back. I've heard that Vettel may be going to McLaren with Alonso. Nobody except some RBR folk has actually said he is going to Ferrari. As I said already, Vettel doesn't strike me as a guy that wants to do it the hard way. He wants everything handed to him. Since he knows he has been exposed as an average driver now and is no match for Ricciardo, McLaren is his next best bet for a competitive car next year. Though I am pretty sure Alonso would destroy him, it would be an exceptionally interesting pairing.

Interestingly, Jules Bianchi's crash could have put a fly in the ointment though. I reckon Ferrari were going to sign Bianchi's to their team for next year with Alonso going. Now that Bianchi will probably sadly never drive a F1 car again it puts a fly in the ointment and could be a lifeline for Jenson Button or Magnussen.

With Bianchi out of the mix it is likely Ferrari are renewing their efforts to get Vettel's services now or else maybe Button/Magnussen's/Hulkenberg. Either way, I think Alonso will be at McLaren. But I find it more likely Vettel will be at McLaren than Ferrari. Now that would be a real chance for Vettel to prove himself against the driver whom everyone, unless their name is DJ, regards as the best driver on the grid.

[rjbetty]

Kenny Handkammer, the chief engineer, who was sacked on the spot in Suzuka goes to Ferrari. And Vettel's former race engineer at Toro Rosso, the one who oversaw his first win at Monza '08, is Maranello-bound, too.

I didn't realise it was like that... Why on earth did they do that? :/

[dj_bytedisaster]

I didn't realise it was like that... Why on earth did they do that? :/

Because he signed with Ferrari I presume. He actually was in Suzuka and was booted out of the garage.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I said that a few pages back. I've heard that Vettel may be going to McLaren with Alonso. Nobody except some RBR folk has actually said he is going to Ferrari. As I said already, Vettel doesn't strike me as a guy that wants to do it the hard way. He wants everything handed to him. Since he knows he has been exposed as an average driver now and is no match for Ricciardo, McLaren is his next best bet for a competitive car next year. Though I am pretty sure Alonso would destroy him, it would be an exceptionally interesting pairing.

Interestingly, Jules Bianchi's crash could have put a fly in the ointment though. I reckon Ferrari were going to sign Bianchi's to their team for next year with Alonso going. Now that Bianchi will probably sadly never drive a F1 car again it puts a fly in the ointment and could be a lifeline for Jenson Button or Magnussen.

With Bianchi out of the mix it is likely Ferrari are renewing their efforts to get Vettel's services now or else maybe Button/Magnussen's/Hulkenberg. Either way, I think Alonso will be at McLaren. But I find it more likely Vettel will be at McLaren than Ferrari. Now that would be a real chance for Vettel to prove himself against the driver whom everyone, unless their name is DJ, regards as the best driver on the grid.

Do you really believe that drivel or were you just drunk at the time?

[Malbec]

With Bianchi out of the mix it is likely Ferrari are renewing their efforts to get Vettel's services now or else maybe Button/Magnussen's/Hulkenberg. Either way, I think Alonso will be at McLaren. But I find it more likely Vettel will be at McLaren than Ferrari. Now that would be a real chance for Vettel to prove himself against the driver whom everyone, unless their name is DJ, regards as the best driver on the grid.

Vettel is no idiot, he would not have exited RBR without securing a seat elsewhere. Ferrari do not need to renew their efforts to get him, they already have him signed up. There are a few tiny clues such as LdM and Horner openly talking about where Vettel is headed and the talk in the paddock only supports this. I do believe LdM knows one or two people at Ferrari...

The only surprise in this whole episode is that RBR's response to Vettel leaving was not to sign the best driver out there as a replacement but to support their in-house project and promote Kvyat. IMO that is what caught out Alonso who supposedly started this game by agreeing with Ferrari to cut short his contract with them making him a free agent for 2015. He was most likely expecting to talk to both RBR and McLaren and play them against each other for his services. Now he only really has McLaren as a realistic destination with Williams and Lotus not keen or able to pay what he wants to receive, and this means his bargaining power is substantially diminished. This also means of course that Lewis will find it difficult to re-sign with Mercedes with anything like a pay-rise regardless of whether he wins the championship, after all Mercedes could always threaten to sign up Alonso instead even though it wouldn't be in their best interests to do so...

[AndyL]

Any lingering doubts about where Vettel is going can be laid to rest:

http://formula1.ferrari.com/news/sebastian-vettel-raikkonen-2015

Vettel and Raikkonen confirmed at Ferrari.

[The Black Knight]

Yup, confirmed earlier his move to Ferrari. Well this only leaves on remaining question, will Button or Magnussen be Alonso's teammate at McLaren? It may not be announced but there's no other seat for Alonso to go now so it has to be McLaren.

[airshifter]

Any lingering doubts about where Vettel is going can be laid to rest:

http://formula1.ferrari.com/news/sebastian-vettel-raikkonen-2015

Vettel and Raikkonen confirmed at Ferrari.

That could be an interesting pairing. Neither driver is much for the head games type approach, but both are particular to how the car is set up and designed.

I just hope Ferrari build a car that is good enough to battle up top next year. Alonso gave it everything he had, and still couldn't hoist that car up to the front of the pack often. I think Sebastian is a driver similar to Alonso, always on the hunt for more performance and making few mistakes. He does it in a different style as compared to Fernando, but the end result is similar. And Kimi, as reserved as he is, owns a whole lot of fast laps from when he was in a good car. That doesn't just happen by accident.

And in any case, regardless of what they do with the car, I hope the best for Vettel. His dream of driving for Ferrari is now in his hands, and I hope for his sake it's a decision he is happy with.


So I guess now all speculation can go to where Fred is going, or who is going to lose a McLaren seat to make room for him.

[Tazio]

I'm just curious which will be the spanker, and the spankee. :confused: :laugh:
I suspect Seb will beat Kimi, but without the type of corporal punishment that Fred dealt him!:ninja::imubash:

[AndyL]

I'm just curious which will be the spanker, and the spankee. :confused: :laugh:

It will be very interesting to see how that works out. They both have the potential to fulfill either role I think.

[anfield5]

If Ferrari produce a car to Vettle's taste Kimi will be blown into the weeds, but I don't think Seb is truly able to make a poor car look good (as Alonso can), so if the car is as poor as this year, there may not be much to choose between the two.

[jens]

Vettel and Räikkönen are getting on well, so in-team relationship should be fine. But unfortunately people will have a lot of questionmarks next year about their performances, because they both struggled (Kimi more though) in 2014 and we do not know, how well can they get on top of the issues next year. Were they paired after 2013, you would have thought without doubt it would be an excellent pairing, but now the question is - will they struggle or not?

Theoretically Vettel is the favourite and so he should be - lots of WDCs, still young, the future is his. While Räikkönen will have to convince employers he is worth getting a contract beyond 2015. Vettel has a 3-year-deal from what I can understand.

[Big Ben]

I hope ferrari and vettel will fail miserably together. They most certainly deserve it.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Ok... My bad. I was under the impression that it was Ferrari squeezing Alonso out but it seems it was the Spaniard that was looking for greener pastures.

Too bad Ferrari and Alonso didn't win a title together.

[truefan72]

Ok... My bad. I was under the impression that it was Ferrari squeezing Alonso out but it seems it was the Spaniard that was looking for greener pastures.

Too bad Ferrari and Alonso didn't win a title together.

should have won it in 2010 except alonso did not get past petrov, and that is down to Alonso
after that, less than stellar cars from the red team

[Tazio]

:stareup: :rolleyes:

[Jag_Warrior]

This also means of course that Lewis will find it difficult to re-sign with Mercedes with anything like a pay-rise regardless of whether he wins the championship, after all Mercedes could always threaten to sign up Alonso instead even though it wouldn't be in their best interests to do so...

I realize that this post is over a month old, but would you still say this holds true? Lewis is covered through 2015, whereas Alonso will be tied down through 2016 at least (we can assume). Apparently it was Honda that had to lobby to get him back to McLaren (Ron Dennis must have been projectile vomiting every time he heard Alonso's name), and there's no way they'd let him hang out for a year just so he could have the chance to run off to Mercedes. Plus, Alonso makes more than Lewis does now (by most reports), so there'd be no financial upside to taking him over Lewis. And... he's older and a helluva lot more trouble to have around.

Another thing, let's say Lewis wins another WDC (or is well on the way) by the time his Merc contract starts to get short. Who says Honda wouldn't be abe to pull a Niki Lauda and convince him to come back home to McLaren for 2016? If things get nutty, that could be the power package to have by then. I don't see the big hitters being content to keep getting walloped by Mercedes AMG for more than another season. I think they'll risk spending the sport into oblivion if that's the only other option they have.

Personally, I think it would be totally hilarious for Mercedes to play hardball with Lewis next season over a few bucks one way or the other, so he leaves for McLaren-Honda for 2016 (you know the Senna lover would throw Nicole out of a moving car to win a WDC in a McLaren-Honda), Alonso goes to Mercedes, Williams switches to Hondas (meaning Susie "Seriously Quick" Wolff would have to go be hubby's "reserve driver" At Merc) and Lewis wins his fourth WDC for Daddy Ron.

As for Ferrari, even though my handle on another board was "Tifosi" years ago, I wouldn't mind seeing the red squad spend another year in the desert and go 12 more months without a win. They need that to... build some character. :D

[henners88]

I think Vettel has made a mistake as far as winning more WDC's go, but on the other hand he is a 4 time WDC already and can do a Ferrari stint in the hope it pays off in a few years. I think 2015 will be a struggle though and hope his failure to get on in the 2014 Red Bull was something easily solved because Ferrari are in a bit of a mess and have been for some time. I know Vettel's arrival is tempting some good personnel to Maranello, but these things take time. Vettel has that though as he's still young.