So what is the future of Formula E

[steveaki13]

So I was talking to a couple of people recently and I was trying to work out what the longer term future is of Formula E.

If Electric cars are the future, then how will Formula E and Formula 1 co exist?

I mean at the moment Formula E is brand new, and has some decent drivers albeit an aged and second string but also has some issues to overcome.

So as Formula E grows how does it gain reputation and bring in top current drivers?

Also with Formula 1 likely to head down this route one day as technology improves, does F1 replace Formula E when it becomes electric or do they end up side by side as two electric Formula's and compete for the top drivers.

Or even does Formula E replace F1?

So many questions. I thought it might be interesting to think about.

Will F1 crush Formula E or will Formula E leave F1 behind

What sat you lot :)

[Mark]

I have always viewed it as being the test bed and development series for F1. So I would imagine eventually once the technology has come on far enough that F1 would adopt it and Formula E would cease.

[jens]

I have always viewed it as being the test bed and development series for F1. So I would imagine eventually once the technology has come on far enough that F1 would adopt it and Formula E would cease.

Hmm, pretty interesting views. Could be the case.

I think first of all Formula E has to build its up in its current form and prove it is actually a sustainable series unlike A1GP, SuperLeague or whatever we have had in the past.

The cars are way slow at the moment, but once they get faster, F1 will gradually start taking more and more notice. Will they merge one day? Or will Formula E become sort of what GP2 currently is? So it means merging/replacing GP2. Although it is interesting that GP2 is viewed as "driver development series", while FE is "technology development series", maybe one day they can be the same.

[Mark]

That's a decent perspective. Perhaps it can be more than just a development formula with both up and coming drivers and ex F1 drivers.

Certainly F1 has already taken the first steps with hybrid electric technology and FE can feed into that. It's feasible that eventually F1 batteries will become rechargeable and depend on the petrol engine gradually less until it becomes an advantage to dispense with it entirely.

[MrJan]

I think that at some point down the line the technology will be so advanced that we'll have a series that we would recognise as F1 which is all electric. I can't quite see the idea of a new series like Formula E surpassing what we've got at the minute, a championship that has evolved over 60 years.

I think that we all have to accept that, at some point in the future, motorsport as we know it will cease to exist. There's no way that we can continue with the oil based sport that we've got at the minute.

[journeyman racer]

I have always viewed it as being the test bed and development series for F1.
Dunno about it being specifically for F1. But having spoke to a guy who is part of a F1 radio show here, it is a test bed and development series.


So I would imagine eventually once the technology has come on far enough that F1 would adopt it and Formula E would cease.
Sounds logical.

[Doc Austin]

The cars ran reliably and raced well, so the series is off to a good start.

They need to find a way to get a longer run time or recharge faster because the whole car swapping thing is really dumb. Swapping cars only serves to highlight how limited the technology is right now.

[A FONDO]

Of course it is limited, as every new technology that is not in mass production yet. Nobody said it will kill F1 in the next two months.

[Zeakiwi]

There maybe a financial rationalisation in the future. Formula 1 and a support GP class. The GP class made up of 'Formula E, GP2, GP3' so only one chassis is required and perhaps an upper & lower grade for 2 support races, so the fast young racers get matched against each other in similar machinery allowing F1 teams to identify the better drivers.

As battery swapping technology gets better, we might see a battery pack swap for Formula E like a nascar/ le mans refueling stop. Tesla has already shown a demo of a battery swap quicker than a service station liquid refuel stop.
http://youtu.be/FE81S26XG8c (starts at one minute) Imagine the pit crewman halfway along the formula e car with a super dense battery on a flat jack swapping or adding another battery at the current F1 pit stop speed.

[Bagwan]

I hope it survives .
It makes me wonder , though , when decisions like having a car swap aren't pooh poohed right off the top .
That's wonder if it isn't supposed to make electric cars look bad from the get go .

Add to that this loooooong break between first and second outings .
That's enough to make me wonder what the hell they are doing all on it's own .


But , if they have the same enthusiasm after a few more races , and they produce a good race , itself , then it could become a test bed for the future of F1 .
Nice to see that vid from Tesla , Zeakiwi , as it certainly shows that a battery swap could be done easily , and the application of serious money involved in the series might have the change done in a few seconds if they wanted , just like the battery change for my Black and Decker cordless drill .

If they shift to something along these lines , then it all has a chance .
If not , I'm afraid I might be left wondering about who is pulling strings to make something that looks obvious , look unattainable .

[MrJan]

Tesla has already shown a demo of a battery swap quicker than a service station liquid refuel stop.
http://youtu.be/FE81S26XG8c (starts at one minute)

Interesting video, and certainly shows the possibilities, but a bit disingenuous to compare it to fuel. That Audi seems to have the largest fuel tank in the world (22 US gallons!!! my Focus takes about 11 UK) and to pretend like the Tesla would get even a fraction of the range is just silly. Be interesting to see where we are in 20 years though, once the technology has advanced.

[steveaki13]

I hope it survives .
It makes me wonder , though , when decisions like having a car swap aren't pooh poohed right off the top .
That's wonder if it isn't supposed to make electric cars look bad from the get go .

Add to that this loooooong break between first and second outings .
That's enough to make me wonder what the hell they are doing all on it's own .


But , if they have the same enthusiasm after a few more races , and they produce a good race , itself , then it could become a test bed for the future of F1 .
Nice to see that vid from Tesla , Zeakiwi , as it certainly shows that a battery swap could be done easily , and the application of serious money involved in the series might have the change done in a few seconds if they wanted , just like the battery change for my Black and Decker cordless drill .

If they shift to something along these lines , then it all has a chance .
If not , I'm afraid I might be left wondering about who is pulling strings to make something that looks obvious , look unattainable .

I agree Bagwan

The car swapping makes the technology look poor and that Electric cars have not advanced much.

The hype around the first round has been forgotten by the time round 2 comes along

and personally the "all street track" calender is probably a bad idea.

I think they could have done a better job of Formula E on its debut than they have.

[MrJan]

and personally the "all street track" calender is probably a bad idea.


I agree. I think that the intention is to bring it into cities to bring it to the masses and attract people other than just motorsport fans. Remains to be seen if it actually works, although I think that the cycling 'Tour Series' that has run in the UK has had reasonable crowds on a similar basis. Personally I think that it detracts from Formula E more than it adds. Street tracks are always a compromise and, on the whole, just not as interesting. Electric is always going to have an uphill struggle to be seen as exciting, so they need to do something to get adrenaline into it (and playing music is not the answer).

[Bagwan]

At this point , street tracks are an advantage to them .
Firstly , since the cars aren't all that fast , they can make them look that way in more restricted venues .

If they were at venues away from the cities , they'd be looking at pretty poor crowds , as nobody seems to even know about all this going on , aside from us donkeys .

It's an uphill struggle when there seems to be no cross pollination between the two series , F1 , and FE ; Never a mention where all those F1 guys went , and never even a thought to calling F1 a hybrid series .

[Total_Hoon_Motorsport]

I very much enjoyed the new Formula E. It was different, new, refreshing. I thought th racing was fairly good considering the circuit. The concept is very good, however, I cannot see it overtaking Formula 1. Too many F1 fans are ignorant to this new formula, that being, they won't check it out. My only complaint is the mimicky gimmick of fanboost. Please don't start all these gimmicks like F1. I feel that is the way though with all these energy saving and electric ideas. This wiil provide these gimmicks. Overall though, very good. Looking forward to the next one!:)

[journeyman racer]

Having thought about it further, there's no way anything will "overtake" F1. F1 is designated top level, no matter how bad it is. But, having been in discussions about V8Supercars place in Australian motorsport, it's presence amongst the Australian motorsport fans and general public, in comparison to the Bathurst 12 Hour's growing popularity, and how and why the scene is as it is. It got me thinking about all series below F1 or motorsport "jurisdictions".

So we'll see if anyone agrees with me. Below F1, every form of motorsport is centred around one big, yearly event. So as a series, I don't see a prosperous future for it. However, had there been a one-off Electric Car WC, that could've built itself up into a good event over the next decade or two.

The patience isn't there to do something like that. So it's stuffed.

[Triumph]

I saw the Buenos Aires race, which was the first Formula E race that I have seen. I thought it was great. Plenty of action, plenty of familiar names, and for me there wasn't anything about it that made it less watchable than Formula 1.

They even sound quite good with all that gear noise, and I'm sorry to say that to me they didn't really sound any worse than the current Formula 1 cars. I'm definitely going to watch the rest of the series, which is apparently being shown live on ITV over here in the UK.

[Tazio]

:stareup: Welcome aboard mate! ;)
It was a fun, and entertaining race, The series is still in its infancy, but its unpredictability makes it very entertaining. At least two cars, maybe three broke their suspension on the same chicane curb (which was probably due to battery weight), and a couple guys really got screwed by the safety car, but they will get that ironed out if the series is allowed to evolve. I'm really looking forward to the Long beach race, with (very low) expectations of getting a photo of myself with Jarno, and or Nick! :)

[Doc Austin]

:stareup: Welcome aboard mate! ;)
It was a fun, and entertaining race, The series is still in its infancy, but its unpredictability makes it very entertaining. At least two cars, maybe three broke their suspension .... but they will get that ironed out if the series is allowed to evolve.

Attrition always makes things interesting.

So far I think the series is off to a great start. I hope they can develop the cares well enough that they can get through a whole race on one battery. The car swapping thing really annoys me.

[giu canbera]

Well, theres a plan for the next 5 season.
http://www.electricautosport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/formula_e_technical_roadmap_proposal_b.jpg

THey are about to announc. six to eight manufacturers that will join the series next season!
BMW, Audi, Rimac, Mahindra, Venturi, Cosworth and Renault (Current Spec Engine is a McLaren) are the rumored ones. Volvo, Toyota, Nissan and Illmor are all interested too acording to some tweets (lol)

For year 3, is expected to have others producing Batteries too. Sanyo, and Panasonic are the rumored ones among others. Also, is expected that every manufacturer provide batteries together with the engines.

Chassis will remain the same till 2018. BlueBird and Dryson were trying to build chassis for year two but its not gonna happen. Also is expected to have manufacturer producing chassis. THey want to keep it very simple, like main plates + one flat adjustable wings, similar nose size and height, etc..

Its interesting that they are planning 4wd cars! That would be awesome.

And lets be honest.. If the future is electric, car manufacturers will be looking into Formula E. Look at McLaren producing the engines. I think theres only two manufacturers that sell cars because of racing. THey are Ferrari and McLaren.. and McL jumped into FormulaE in a Heart Beat. So.. that must means something right?

I think WEC is a few years to start allowing Hydrogen cars, solar power, etc... So its better to F1 improve or they will get behind these Two.

[Tazio]

:angel:

[anfield5]

There is always milk that needs delivering.

[A FONDO]

Eight manufacturers to enter Formula E next season

For the inaugural 2014/2015 season, the 10 Formula E teams all compete using identical single-seaters – the Spark-Renault SRT_01E – utilising a powertrain by McLaren Electronic Systems. From the 2015/2016 season, the series will become an open championship allowing manufacturers to pursue their own in-house innovations, beginning with the development of bespoke powertrains.

In order to limit costs and promote investment and innovation in the most important areas, the manufacturers’ scope is initially limited to the powertrain – specifically the e-motor, the inverter, the gearbox and the cooling system. All other parts on the cars will remain as they are, with the aim being to prevent costly aerodynamic developments.

[zako85]

I have always viewed it as being the test bed and development series for F1. So I would imagine eventually once the technology has come on far enough that F1 would adopt it and Formula E would cease.

Under this scenario, FE should not really cease. First of all, there is a ton of competent open wheel racers who had nowhere to go after F1. FE is a nice refuge for them. Also, FE is a much lower cost formula, so a lot of teams with talented staff can afford to remain in the series even without hundred million budgets. Even if Formula 1 copies and adopts the best innovations of FE, I think FE will stick around. We need a second top-level open wheel series to absorb the open wheel drivers, spectators, and teams who couldn't make it in the cruel and materialistic world of F1. (At some point I thought that IndyCar should be this secondary open wheel series, but it clearly failed at that by now).

[Mekola]

Under this scenario, FE should not really cease. First of all, there is a ton of competent open wheel racers who had nowhere to go after F1. FE is a nice refuge for them. Also, FE is a much lower cost formula, so a lot of teams with talented staff can afford to remain in the series even without hundred million budgets. Even if Formula 1 copies and adopts the best innovations of FE, I think FE will stick around. We need a second top-level open wheel series to absorb the open wheel drivers, spectators, and teams who couldn't make it in the cruel and materialistic world of F1. (At some point I thought that IndyCar should be this secondary open wheel series, but it clearly failed at that by now).

Agree definitely.

[giu canbera]

-Citroen has tested its Season2 engine. They are helping Virgin Racing with the new engine via their DS program. Cool!
-BMW said they will only join when the battery lasts the whole 45 min race
-Andretti is not developing engines with Honda (it was rumored)
-Audi is out for now (producing the engine), theres other company taking over the ABT engine named Schaeffler.
-No one knows what engines will AmlinAguri and Dragon use next season yet. They could keep the current McLaren or use any of the other 8 new programs.

Uruguay and Long Beach may not continue in the schedule for season2.
Paris and Mexico could be added.
HOng Kong, Kazakistain, Montreal should appear for season 3

Japan is one of the places where FE audience is the higher

Sweden, Norway, Estonia and Japan are the top4 biggest Electric Car market/consumers

Sorry for the bad english, again

[wildboar]

Thanks for your update on Formula E development. Would be nice to have some more discussion here.

I am quite pleased with the first season. Of course, there are still some problems, such as very short battery life-time. But first of all, it is a great achievement to create a completely new series with a new type of car out of nothing within two years. Remember, they developed an entirely new car, and had to build 40 of them in a short time. The car is quite good and reliable. Then they had to find 10 teams and 20 drivers. Also here, they found good manufacturers and teams with experience in various racing series. And a great selection of drivers. And then they had to find 10 cities that were willing to host a race in the city centre. We have seen some stunning locations, Moscow last week was my favourite, racing directly next to the Kremlin and Red Square. But I also liked Punta del Este basically next to the beach.

And now I am really excited to see the new developments. Really looking forward to see the progress made in terms of speed and energy consumption. Actually, I find this the most interesting point of the series, the big development leaps that we will probably see each year.

[giu canbera]

I've got a little frustrated cuz FIA just banned the plans of Citroen to bring a CVT gearbox for season 2 (with Virgin Racing) and theres rumors that they might ban the dual engine from China NextEV too
That would be terrible for the sport. Such great innovations! C'moon FIA, stop being stupid!

[Mekola]

No, restrictions in Formula E, too? Not there, please.