Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

[ioan]

It's on Yahoo news.

I for one always thought that people shouldn't have the right to have guns.

[Eki]

It's on Yahoo news.

I for one always thought that people shouldn't have the right to have guns.
I've always thought people should have the right to have guns, but they should be wise and sane enough for not to have them. Since that's utopianism, strict gun laws are the next best thing.

[grassrootsracer]

Up to 32 (including shooter). This is horrible and my sympathies go out to all the students and families at Virginia Tech. As an engineering student at another school..it makes me think. I hope this doesn't turn into a gun rights debate.

[Cindy_AL]

Thats so sad. :(

[Daniel]

My condolances to all involved. I think gun control should go into a seperate thread. It'll only end up in an argument which detracts from the sadness of this thread.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Oh dear

[CarlMetro]

My thoughts and sympathies go out to the family and friend of all those involved :(

My hope is that we can keep this thread a thread about the subject in question, not about whether guns should/should not be allowed.

Full details on here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6560685.stm

[AndySpeed]

If the gunman was killed then I hope the police shot him in the leg, arms, groin anywhere but the head or heart so he didn't die quickly. :angryfire

Sad :(

[Woodeye]

My condolences to all involved also.

This tragedy always shows how rediculous the gun laws are in U.S. And I think the gun control belong to this thread. I really would like to see someone to back up the laws in U.S after this.

[nicemms]

My heart goes out to all those involved with the shooting.

America needs stricter gun laws to stop awfull events like this happening. Its terrible. This kind of thing can't and shouldn't go on for any longer.

C'mon Bush, make guns illegal in America.

[grassrootsracer]

For the discussion of gun rights, please go here (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116767).

[ioan]

Very sad indeed. Something I could never understand.
Worse still there were 2 hours between the first dead and the rest of them.

[harvick#1]

the death toll has been rasied to 31 :(

very sad

[stevie_gerrard]

Such sad news, i have a friend who goes to a University in Virginia, not sure whether its the same one, but shes currently over here in the UK. It's so horrible to hear such terrible events going on :(

[XSARA]

Such awful awful news :(

It's terrible and scary at the same time to hear of something like this. I'm an engineering student at another university in the U.S. and it's just the worst thing I've heard...upsetting news indeed :(

Stevie, no, UVa isn't the same as Virginia Tech...different schools, but within the same state.

[Jaws]

I feel so sorry for the people whose lives have been obliterated by this senseless act.

We had an occurence in Tasmania about 10 years ago where a madman took out 35, I still remember the poor guy who witnessed his wife and 2 little girls gunned down in front of him.

It's times like this when I worry about the human race.

[millencolin]

this is... F*cked up. kinda made me a bit nervous before attending uni today.

what a tragedy

As AndySpeed said earlier... i hope the ******* wasnt killed instantly. he deserved to be in searing pain

[L5->R5/CR]

this is... F*cked up. kinda made me a bit nervous before attending uni today.

what a tragedy

As AndySpeed said earlier... i hope the ******* wasnt killed instantly. he deserved to be in searing pain



Reports are that the gunmen shot himself, so he probably did the most cowardly thing possible after shotting dozens of un-armed people and blew his brains out.

Of course, in all likelihood, had a SWAT team gotten to him in time, he probably would have been shot dozens of times himself, and we'd have people go on and on about police brutality....

[BrentJackson]

This is a terrible day, no question about it. I'd like to know what the guy was thinking when all of this happened. I don't think most of us have forgotten Dunblane and Columbine, so this definitely is a scene we'd all wish never happened. :(

[tinchote]

Awful :(

[pino]

Terrible tragedy, my thought goes to all Families and People involved :(

[raphael123]

Very sad! :(
However I do think this should ignite a guns debate. Otherwise these things will continue to happen. To ask people not to have a debate on the guns issue, and just mourn the victims, is not going to solve the problem.

RIP

[Ian McC]

Once again I find myself doubting the future of the human race :(

This adds to the long list of similar events, why anyone feels the need to go shoot dead people is schools is beyond me.

So many lives ruined at the hands of one person :mad:

[janneppi]

News here suggest that th student had a row with his girlfriend, he then shot her and went on a killing spree.

[Viktory]

Very sad :(
I hope the gunman is someplace very very warm and painful right now.
My condolances go out to the families and friends of those who were killed.
R.I.P.

[harsha]

saw it on the news,it's being aired 24/7 here cause one of those killed was an Indian .....

[MadCat]

Such sad, sad news. :(

Was on the bus to photography today and it was on the Radio 1 news about any further developments and we talked about what if it happened to us, the thought of anything like that happening to us was frightening.

Myself and friends found it hard to grasp how easy it must be for someone like the psycho in America to get a lethal weapon and do such unthinkable things.

My thoughts are with friends and family of those who's lives were taken. RIP

[slinkster]

Truly awful to hear all the accounts of what happened there in the news today... it's so hard to believe how these things can happen and I'm sorry for all those who got caught up in this. :(

[stevie_gerrard]

Such awful awful news :(

It's terrible and scary at the same time to hear of something like this. I'm an engineering student at another university in the U.S. and it's just the worst thing I've heard...upsetting news indeed :(

Stevie, no, UVa isn't the same as Virginia Tech...different schools, but within the same state.

I spoke to my friend last nite, she goes to VCU in the same state, she has best friends at Viriginia Tech though, luckily those she knows survived without harm.

[Mp3 Astra]

This is disgusting, horrible and just tragic.
According to the news here, the killer was depressed and prone to stalking women among other things.

RIP to all the innocent people involved in this sickening, evil crime.

[RaceFanStan]

from msnbc.com :
"Thirty-three people were confirmed dead after the bloodbath Monday, including the gunman,
whom police identified as Cho Seung-Hui (pronounced Choh Suhng-whee), of Centreville, Va.,
a resident alien who immigrated to the United States from South Korea in 1992."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/?GT1=9246

What a way for an immigrant to repay a country's kindness in allowing him a future ! :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

Thats Terrible and very sad :( RIP, Thoughts go out to the victims family and friends.

[janvanvurpa]

from msnbc.com :
"Thirty-three people were confirmed dead after the bloodbath Monday, including the gunman,
whom police identified as Cho Seung-Hui (pronounced Choh Suhng-whee), of Centreville, Va.,
a resident alien who immigrated to the United States from South Korea in 1992."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/?GT1=9246

What a way for an immigrant to repay a country's kindness in allowing him a future ! :rolleyes:

Everybody in the Americas are immigrants.
You make pointed references to the National background of every criminal?

Would it have been somehow all hunky dory if he had happened to be born here rather than just been raised here since childhood?

[akv89]

A very strange and tragic happenning and I can't imagine how the students and the parents affected by the event are feeling.
The person responsible is being described as a very disturbed person and a loner. His creative writing papers were apparently so disturbing and full of gore that his english teacher recommended him to counseling.

[Roamy]

A very sad horrible day for many good people and families.
A very sad day for America.

I know many will jump on the anti gun program, however people like this get guns. I hate to say it but I think we are seeing a evalution of mankind. With all the drugs, violence everywhere it seems people are no longer chershing life. To bad they take it out on innocent good people. Why didn't this guy go shoot OJ Simpson and a few others like that.

[Daniel]

from msnbc.com :
"Thirty-three people were confirmed dead after the bloodbath Monday, including the gunman,
whom police identified as Cho Seung-Hui (pronounced Choh Suhng-whee), of Centreville, Va.,
a resident alien who immigrated to the United States from South Korea in 1992."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/?GT1=9246

What a way for an immigrant to repay a country's kindness in allowing him a future ! :rolleyes:
I fail to see how his nationality has anything to do with it.

[Tomi]

I fail to see how his nationality has anything to do with it.

Exactly.

[ioan]

A professor died while he was protecting his students, he was of Romanian origin and was teaching there since 1986. He managed to escape the Holocaust in WWII and died on the very anniversary of that event, killed by an idiot.
How sad for his family and the families of all those people who lost their lives 2 days ago. :(

[Camelopard]

A professor died while he was protecting his students, he was of Romanian origin and was teaching there since 1986. He managed to escape the Holocaust in WWII and died on the very anniversary of that event, killed by an idiot.


I fail to see how his background has anything to do with this. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Storm]

An Indian professor died in the shoot-out and a girl from Mumbai is missing - so said the newspapers....shocking stuff really.

[Jefe Máximo]

33..

That's a simply astonishing number.

Condolences to the friends and families of all the victims.


There's something serioulsy wrong with a nation where a kid can get hold of a gun with such ease, and is crazed enough to go shoot fellow students indiscriminately.

[jso1985]

these are the times where I fail to understand people's behaviour :(

RIP to all victims

[Eki]

There's something serioulsy wrong with a nation where a kid can get hold of a gun with such ease, and is crazed enough to go shoot fellow students indiscriminately.
Exactly. Criminals aren't that dangerous. They only shoot if it's absolutely necessary or to settle the scores among themselves. Therefore, illegal guns aren't that much of a problem. To obtain an illegal gun means you have to be a criminal yourself or have some connections with them. The real problem are kids with mental health problems who have access to legal guns, they are the ones doing most of the serial killings.

[cobre]

My prayers of comfort to all involved in this senseless tragedy: human behaviour never ceases to dissapoint me!

[O&A Virus]

I'm convinced NBC didn't have to show this video but did out of the sheer hope for ratings and spite for the other news networks. They played right into Cho's hands. NBC could have easily gave us a summary of its content (like they do when Osama sends out a new tape) and have been done with it. By showing the tape, we learn nothing more than what we already knew. Brian Williams and his "crocodile tears" was trully embarrassing to watch last night.

[L5->R5/CR]

I'm convinced NBC didn't have to show this video but did out of the sheer hope for ratings and spite for the other news networks. They played right into Cho's hands. NBC could have easily gave us a summary of its content (like they do when Osama sends out a new tape) and have been done with it. By showing the tape, we learn nothing more than what we already knew. Brian Williams and his "crocodile tears" was trully embarrassing to watch last night.



You lack a sense of the ethical battle that journalists go through when presented with this kind of material.


I will continue to sympathize with the V-tech community. Having had to deal with something similiar 8 years ago I know it is hard and difficult for the community to get through something like this.

[A.F.F.]

33..

That's a simply astonishing number.

Condolences to the friends and families of all the victims.



Agreed. :(

I know life isn't fair but I can't think more unfair reason to die than being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[O&A Virus]

You lack a sense of the ethical battle that journalists go through when presented with this kind of material.


I will continue to sympathize with the V-tech community. Having had to deal with something similiar 8 years ago I know it is hard and difficult for the community to get through something like this.


I see no benefit in showing this video to the public other than feeding the curious. NBC had a "scoop" and rolled with it plain and simple. The ratings book will show they got what they wanted. Next time, I just ask they spare us the crocodile tears and phony excuses (twice in less than a week).

Ethical battle? Rubbish. Hell, even with Columbine the media waited a few months before they showed footage taken from the school camaras. Not in this case. Nope. NBC and MSNBC teased their audiences all day about having the footage and used it to advertised their 6:30 news broadcast. Ethical journalism? I beg to differ. I think NBC clearing overstep their bounds. The FBI, Virginia State Police and several parents of the victims have condemned NBC for showing the video.

Shame on NBC.

[L5->R5/CR]

I see no benefit in showing this video to the public other than feeding the curious. NBC had a "scoop" and rolled with it plain and simple. The ratings book will show they got what they wanted. Next time, I just ask they spare us the crocodile tears and phony excuses (twice in less than a week).

Ethical battle? Rubbish. Hell, even with Columbine the media waited a few months before they showed footage taken from the school camaras.


False comparison. The Columbine tapes weren't sent to the media on the day of the attacks. Likewise, I GUARANTEE you, as part of the community that had to deal with that, that the media did nothing to delay the release of those videos. They were held by the police for investigative purposes as well as to insure that no minors would be identified without their consent. Had the tapes been available they would have aired as soon as possible.


Not in this case. Nope. NBC and MSNBC teased their audiences all day about having the footage and used it to advertised their 6:30 news broadcast. Ethical journalism? I beg to differ. I think NBC clearing overstep their bounds. The FBI, Virginia State Police and several parents of the victims have condemned NBC for showing the video.

Shame on NBC.


Peronally, as someone that had to deal with something similiar to this. I would have been more upset had NBC not showed it. It is not the job of the media to withhold information or news. Equally, journalist that strive to have some level of integrity should report not only both sides of the story but should report the news promptly and without bias. NBC primed everybody before airing this, people that would find it offensive or harmful had the opportunity to air it. Equally, new agencies should not fully censor nor select the footage.

Also, I can guarantee that this footage would have aired at some point. With that said I fully respect and understand NBC's decision to copy the material, turn it over to investigators, and air it. Again, as someone that has dealt with similiar circumstances, and is currently on a campus where someone was arrested and expelled for openly and explicitly empathizing with the perpatrator of this horrendous event, I have no problem with how NBC dealt with this scenario.

Your argument vilifying NBC is misguided.

[Eki]

It's interesting to see how the US media does in depth coverage of the victims of this incident. When have they made an in depth coverage of the victims of bombings in Iraq where more than 32 Iraqis have died?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiatech.shootings/victims/index.html

[L5->R5/CR]

It's interesting to see how the US media does in depth coverage of the victims of this incident. When have they made an in depth coverage of the victims of bombings in Iraq where more than 32 Iraqis have died?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiatech.shootings/victims/index.html




Because Iraq is unstable and violence is expected. Same thing why most new agencies don't dedicate much energy to talking about violence related deaths in most of Africa, or even Darfur on a regular basis.

Similiarly, more than 32 people in the US were killed each day this week based on statistics, but those murders were not covered.

Violence in violence prone areas is not news in the context of the US media.

Heck, why did the BBC give a rats arse about Jon Benet Ramsey on when they tried to pin it on that paedophile last year. Because things that are abnormal, or events that occure in areas where they are not expected to occure are news.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Eki, you know wars, we expect to see dead. What is more, the media show the aftermath of those deaths all the time. It isn't news no more. As for V-Tech, it is a horror that no one should have to live through.

As for NBC, well, they almost guarntee that the next sick twisted loner will see this Cho loser as a hero, and start planning his glorious death march. When will the media quit helping those who want to destroy society? This idiot sent this stuff to NBC so they WOULD show it. They made a big deal about turning it over to the law, but not until they copied the pictures and then put the video on TV. I have yet to see, it I don't want to see it, and I don't buy the BS that this was " to understand this young man's mind". I was in Virginia when all of this went down, and the second they said on the radio that Virginia Tech was in lockdown because of a gunman on the loose, I knew who they would find at the end. A corpse that committed suicide after taking a bunch of people with him. The same mindset that caused the fool in Dunblane to kill those kids. The same mind that had a 14 year old young man take a rifle to school Taber Alberta and start killing his classmates. The same mindset at Dawson College in Montreal last summer. The same mind as the Columbine losers. The same mind that walked into an engineering lecture in Montreal hunting women.

This mind is one that feels society hates him and will look for any reason to lash out and prove to everyone they do matter and they are important. So why in the HELL would you do this for them after death? It ensures all the other loners out there planning on doing this sort of thing know they will be immortalized. They talk about it in their death notes and profilers will tell you that this is a goal they all have. The victims and the circumstances may change, but the goal is the same. It is to matter, it is to be important, and to get their 15 minutes of attention. The US media, who is quick to want gun control, even before the bodies have stopped bleeding is as much at fault for this crap as the guns are.

[jso1985]

It's interesting to see how the US media does in depth coverage of the victims of this incident. When have they made an in depth coverage of the victims of bombings in Iraq where more than 32 Iraqis have died?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiatech.shootings/victims/index.html

all Iraq victims are sort of(sadly) expected, so they don't cause a shock at least in American audiences, plus it's a more "interesting" new if the event happens in their country and that applies to every country in the world

[Mark in Oshawa]

As for the on air talent all being "upset" with the moral and ethical decision that was made to show this tape, what a load of rot. They ran it because that is what they do, if it bleeds, it leads. What is more, this was the death wish of a sick man who wanted people to see him as a martyr. NBC couldn't WAIT to fulfill that wish could they? Nice...show me a print picture of the guy, maybe mention his name once...and then leave it alone. Don't glorify what Cho did. Those families who lost their loved ones to this will have the open wound of their loss torn wide open every time some network shows this guy's last wishes....but I guess inflicting pain on victims is something the networks don't think about when helping a mentally deranged soul justify his killling of innocents....

When US Network media (most of the world's media are just as bad also)get it into their head that massive over coverage of every silly trivial event gets into people's psyche searching for that 15 minutes of fame, maybe they will look at this different. We now live where everyones to be noticed and a star, and those who cant get there by doing positive things, will sometimes in a deranged fantasy...get there this way. Until the Media stops rewarding this...it will continue.

[Jag_Warrior]

Exactly. Criminals aren't that dangerous. They only shoot if it's absolutely necessary or to settle the scores among themselves. Therefore, illegal guns aren't that much of a problem. To obtain an illegal gun means you have to be a criminal yourself or have some connections with them. The real problem are kids with mental health problems who have access to legal guns, they are the ones doing most of the serial killings.

On a board I was on a couple of years before I came here, we would nominate a post per week or per month to get an award. It was a special kind of award. It was called the Bonehead Award. I do believe I have a post that I would like to nominate. :dozey:

For anyone who has been robbed, mugged or raped, just remember:
Criminals aren't that dangerous.

And illegal guns aren't a problem either? Good grief, another pearl of wisdom! I live just a few minutes from VA Tech. And while the crime was horrible and has devastated this area, that shooting spree was not representative of the gun crimes in the U.S. Crimes such as this make the world news, but the druggies and gang bangers who are terrorizing U.S. cities don't go to gun shops to buy their full auto (smuggled) Norinco AK-47's and Uzi's, or their Glocks or cheapo Davis .25's. In 1992, some cops in Washington, D.C. were caught selling their "lost" Glock 22's to local street thugs.

Richmond, VA had a terrible murder rate in the early 90's. When it was announced that to be caught with drugs and a gun meant an automatic five years in Federal prison, what do you know? The murder rate fell like a rock. This insane person who did this terrible thing should not have had access, legal or otherwise, to a firearm. The system was in place, but it failed because steps are often taken to protect younger people in college from having their records tarnished. So he legally bought two firearms. That should be addressed. Could he have then bought a firearm illegally? Yes, probably. What could you do about that? Well, prosecute him and the seller. For the gun grabbers on this board who keep talking about banning guns in the U.S., exactly what do you think a ban is other than words on a piece of paper? It is already illegal for felons and certain others to possess guns in the U.S. Cocaine and heroin are banned substances. To stamp out the scourge of drugs, we've got laws and everything. Guess what, we import the majority of the illegal drugs in the world. But that can't be, we have a ban on these substances! You can ban sunshine or rain. Words on paper mean nothing if people won't follow the law. And in the U.S., it's unlikely that (currently) law abiding people will follow such an attack on what are seen as personal freedoms. And criminals... well, they don't follow the laws now. That's kinda how they got to be criminals in the first place. :rolleyes:

But I wouldn't worry, criminals aren't that dangerous.

[BDunnell]

As for the on air talent all being "upset" with the moral and ethical decision that was made to show this tape, what a load of rot. They ran it because that is what they do, if it bleeds, it leads. What is more, this was the death wish of a sick man who wanted people to see him as a martyr. NBC couldn't WAIT to fulfill that wish could they? Nice...show me a print picture of the guy, maybe mention his name once...and then leave it alone. Don't glorify what Cho did. Those families who lost their loved ones to this will have the open wound of their loss torn wide open every time some network shows this guy's last wishes....but I guess inflicting pain on victims is something the networks don't think about when helping a mentally deranged soul justify his killling of innocents....

When US Network media (most of the world's media are just as bad also)get it into their head that massive over coverage of every silly trivial event gets into people's psyche searching for that 15 minutes of fame, maybe they will look at this different. We now live where everyones to be noticed and a star, and those who cant get there by doing positive things, will sometimes in a deranged fantasy...get there this way. Until the Media stops rewarding this...it will continue.

I don't believe that showing this footage automatically glorifies it, just as showing footage of any other topic automatically glorifies it. I have a rather more positive view of human nature than that. These crimes will always happen, just as terrorist acts will always happen. It doesn't matter whether they are shown on TV or not. If there is a genuine spate of copycat attacks, then there may be cause to worry, but I can't see it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

On a board I was on a couple of years before I came here, we would nominate a post per week or per month to get an award. It was a special kind of award. It was called the Bonehead Award. I do believe I have a post that I would like to nominate. :dozey:

For anyone who has been robbed, mugged or raped, just remember:
Criminals aren't that dangerous.

And illegal guns aren't a problem either? Good grief, another pearl of wisdom! I live just a few minutes from VA Tech. And while the crime was horrible and has devastated this area, that shooting spree was not representative of the gun crimes in the U.S. Crimes such as this make the world news, but the druggies and gang bangers who are terrorizing U.S. cities don't go to gun shops to buy their full auto (smuggled) Norinco AK-47's and Uzi's, or their Glocks or cheapo Davis .25's. In 1992, some cops in Washington, D.C. were caught selling their "lost" Glock 22's to local street thugs.

Richmond, VA had a terrible murder rate in the early 90's. When it was announced that to be caught with drugs and a gun meant an automatic five years in Federal prison, what do you know? The murder rate fell like a rock. This insane person who did this terrible thing should not have had access, legal or otherwise, to a firearm. The system was in place, but it failed because steps are often taken to protect younger people in college from having their records tarnished. So he legally bought two firearms. That should be addressed. Could he have then bought a firearm illegally? Yes, probably. What could you do about that? Well, prosecute him and the seller. For the gun grabbers on this board who keep talking about banning guns in the U.S., exactly what do you think a ban is other than words on a piece of paper? It is already illegal for felons and certain others to possess guns in the U.S. Cocaine and heroin are banned substances. To stamp out the scourge of drugs, we've got laws and everything. Guess what, we import the majority of the illegal drugs in the world. But that can't be, we have a ban on these substances! You can ban sunshine or rain. Words on paper mean nothing if people won't follow the law. And in the U.S., it's unlikely that (currently) law abiding people will follow such an attack on what are seen as personal freedoms. And criminals... well, they don't follow the laws now. That's kinda how they got to be criminals in the first place. :rolleyes:

But I wouldn't worry, criminals aren't that dangerous.

Jag, as usual, you sum it up. The people from outside the US don't understand the concept of a rights based society, THAT is, people have the right to own guns and own other possessions deemed legal by society. Since 99% of LEGAL gun owners can get by in life just fine without causing trouble, that isn't good enough. We have to take all of their guns away because of a sorely depressed and confused young man.

AS for Eki's assertions that criminals are not that dangerous, you must remember, he hasn't been mugged before. My best friend was, on the streets of Toronto by 4 thugs for no more purpose than for kicks, and that is what they gave him too. Now if he had a gun or the possiblity of a gun.....he could have protected himself. Of course in Canada, no one carries guns but cops and criminals, and the last time I looked, by the time Cops show up, the criminal is always long gone.....

It is ok Eki, you say silly things all the time, just some of us choose to ignore them...I am glad Jag pointed this one out.