Spriklers

[COD]

The race in Hungary showed it again. To make a good show, you just need a little bit of rain.
So wh don't the scrap DRS and all the other tech BS and install sprinkler to all circuits and deploi them at one point of the race unannounced?

[journeyman racer]

Because it's not a show. Because it's just as dumb as all the other dumb ideas that are there to "spice things up". The weather is just a variable that cannot be manufactured. All the weather did, was confirm that all that's needed to do is reduce the downforce to the minimum amount needed to make the cars safe, and not have the use of mandatory compound and pit stops.

[Tazio]

The race in Hungary showed it again. To make a good show, you just need a little bit of rain.
So wh don't the scrap DRS and all the other tech BS and install sprinkler to all circuits and deploi them at one point of the race unannounced? Probably because it would be the ultimate in fake racing, and a lot of people would stop watching/following F1 including myself.

[schmenke]

Throw in a couple of safety cars at random intervals, and perhaps a squirrel running across the track and we’d have a hell of a show! :D

[Doc Austin]

Fake, fake, fake.

[Jag_Warrior]

I think that Kim Kardashian in a bikini, a gallon of cooking oil and her trying to squeeze into (and out of!!! :eek:) a current generation F1 car for $100,000 would be a better show. I know Bernie floated the idea of sprinklers several years ago (they used them at his Paul Ricard test track) but the idea didn't get any (wait for it)... traction.

[Doc Austin]

Maybe we could replicate wet conditions with grooved tires.

Oh.......wait.

[steveaki13]

It probably doesnt mean anything to most fans, but I heard somewhere that F1 is supposedly a motorsport!

[Doc Austin]

It probably doesnt mean anything to most fans, but I heard somewhere that F1 is supposedly a motorsport!

This will probably make Jag's head explode, but right now the purest and best racing on the planet is Indycar. If people could set aside their prejudice, STFU, and make a miniscule attempt to actually enjoy themselves, they would really have a good time with Indycar.

Personally I hate the mandatory/prime/option tire BS, and I hate the small fuel cells make fuel mileage races more possible, but for the most part they get it right and even crappy places like Houston and Toronto now put of great shows, simply because the car is so damm racey.

See, Indycar (outside of the tire snafu) doesn't try to make the racing fake. If a race sucks, it just sucks. Here's the car....make it work. No drs, no kers, no ers, no nothing. Go fast or go home. The rules are the same for everyone.

I know you guys over there can get it. Give it a fair chance.

[airshifter]

This will probably make Jag's head explode, but right now the purest and best racing on the planet is Indycar. If people could set aside their prejudice, STFU, and make a miniscule attempt to actually enjoy themselves, they would really have a good time with Indycar.

Personally I hate the mandatory/prime/option tire BS, and I hate the small fuel cells make fuel mileage races more possible, but for the most part they get it right and even crappy places like Houston and Toronto now put of great shows, simply because the car is so damm racey.

See, Indycar (outside of the tire snafu) doesn't try to make the racing fake. If a race sucks, it just sucks. Here's the car....make it work. No drs, no kers, no ers, no nothing. Go fast or go home. The rules are the same for everyone.

I know you guys over there can get it. Give it a fair chance.


Take away the push to pass, mandatory tire compound changes, and put them on better road race tracks, and IndyCar would be much closer racing than F1 probably. I just don't like the ovals as much, or the really small circuits. But it is still great racing. F1 could learn some things from IndyCar.

[schmenke]

Take away the push to pass, mandatory tire compound changes, and put them on better road race tracks ....

This is probably the single biggest reason I don't watch IndyCar.

[steveaki13]

This will probably make Jag's head explode, but right now the purest and best racing on the planet is Indycar. If people could set aside their prejudice, STFU, and make a miniscule attempt to actually enjoy themselves, they would really have a good time with Indycar.

Personally I hate the mandatory/prime/option tire BS, and I hate the small fuel cells make fuel mileage races more possible, but for the most part they get it right and even crappy places like Houston and Toronto now put of great shows, simply because the car is so damm racey.

See, Indycar (outside of the tire snafu) doesn't try to make the racing fake. If a race sucks, it just sucks. Here's the car....make it work. No drs, no kers, no ers, no nothing. Go fast or go home. The rules are the same for everyone.

I know you guys over there can get it. Give it a fair chance.

I do watch Indycar when I can, its good racing.

[Doc Austin]

Take away the push to pass, mandatory tire compound changes, and put them on better road race tracks.

I agree, street racing is very destructive.


and IndyCar would be much closer racing than F1 probably.

Indycar racing has always been closer than F1.


I just don't like the ovals as much, or the really small circuits.

Watch and learn. I didn't like them much either until CART started road racing, and then the diversity of the whole package became pretty appealing.

[airshifter]

Doc,

Don't get me wrong, Indycars on ovals are better than NASCAR on ovals. It's just predictable at times. Pocono has an example of that. JPM had the race in hand, and everyone else was fighting for scraps. I'd much rather watch them fight on the road courses. The small courses still provide good racing, but often limit passing opportunities without banzai moves that can bring out the yellow flags.


I've mentioned a few times here in the F1 forums that I think F1 could learn a great deal from Indycar when it comes to cutting chicanes. In F1 if you gain advantage it's often ignored unless you make a pass. In Indycar they seem to monitor advantage as advantage and take it back more often.

Push to pass and KERS/ERS/whatever are really used in similar fashion but the limited use of push to pass does bring it into play only when the pass or a real defending advantage is at least possible usually. I really don't like the DRS much, but overall I think the Indycar package allows passing without it better, so it seems less artificial.

[Doc Austin]

Don't get me wrong, Indycars on ovals are better than NASCAR on ovals. It's just predictable at times. Pocono has an example of that. JPM had the race in hand, and everyone else was fighting for scraps.

Pocono was the one big blowout we have had for awhile. it was not very competitive, but that just may have been down to Montoya


I'd much rather watch them fight on the road courses.

I like road racing too, but what ruins it is that the yellows always seem to fall at the right time to cheat a deserving, Helio had Toronto absolutely won, but a badly timed yellow put him in the back with the jacklys who ruined his race


The small courses still provide good racing, but often limit passing opportunities without banzai moves that can bring out the yellow flags.

Fortunately the new cars can hit flank to flank, so in that respect it is a lot like sportscar racing.If you ever get to see the in-car theatres, man, that is some hairy stuff.

Banzia moves also are a result of that's all you can do when someone is blocking. In the old days, chopping, blocking and swerving you get you killed, so no one did it and passing was much fairer and cleaner.


I've mentioned a few times here in the F1 forums that I think F1 could learn a great deal from Indycar when it comes to cutting chicanes.

So many guys cut the chicane at Houston this year without penalty that I don't know why they even put it in.

I think they need to just put a big block of concrete there and if you hit it your penalty is self enforcing. Today if you run off the track you run off onto asphalt and you can rejoin losing only a few seconds. In that past, you would die. I don't want to see people dying, but I also don't want to see them run of the track with no consequence.


Push to pass and KERS/ERS/whatever are really used in similar fashion but the limited use of push to pass does bring it into play only when the pass or a real defending advantage is at least possible usually.

We call it "push to block" because that's when most drivers seem to use it. It's just a gimmick I wish they would get rid of it.

That, or give them unlimited pushes, make it 100 extra horsepower, but build into the system a random number of pushes before the thing blows up. That would put great fun into passing and the explosions would be great.


I really don't like the DRS much, but overall I think the Indycar package allows passing without it better, so it seems less artificial.

DRS and push to pass are phoney. Mandatory option tires are phoney. There is so much phoney stuff going on that this is the real reason people are losiong interest. racing needs to be real again.

[Ranger]

racing needs to be real again.

As in, no overtaking except for in the pits and off the start-line?

[Warriwa]

In regards to running wide on corners, I would like to see polished concrete put down outside the curbs. Expensive but incredibly slippery. No traction. Spin if accelerate. Driver is penalized with no damage. Only in large run off areas of course.

[Tazio]

As in, no overtaking except for in the pits and off the start-line?I'll take real competition over real spectacle every time.

[Ranger]

I'll take real competition over real spectacle every time.

What is real competition? Front-engined cars, spoke wheels and narrow tyres?

When I joined this forum, everyone complained about how boring the races were. Everyone wished there was more overtaking. It wasn't uncommon to see highlights reels including passes for 14th. In races like Valencia in 2009 there were no overtakes at all.

Now there's plenty of wheel-to-wheel action and everyone is complaining that it is all fake, and they would prefer it as it was... whatever that means.

I questioned a lot of the recent rule changes and I still think a lot of the new regulations being brought in (double points, standing restarts, etc) are rubbish. But on the whole they have been acceptable, in my opinion.

As for viewing figures falling...

That has everything to do with TV rights being signed away to those who give FOM the most money. I.e. Rights being exclusively signed away to Pay TV channels in countries where there was otherwise a large free-to-air TV audience.

I don't think they have anything to do with rule changes at all.

[Tazio]

I can't speak for other people, but I never complained on this forum or anywhere else that F1 is boring, and to be honest I don't give a crap that other people do. You have never been able to see all F1 races in my country free, and viewer ratings sky-rocked when F1 moved to NBC. However that is just fodder for Bernie and his gang to justify the way they shamelessly pimp the sport. My point about "real competition" is a generic one, meaning F1 should have a little more interest in it's integrity, and little less in it's image, JMHO bro. If destruction be it's lot, let it come. I'd rather see it disappear, than listen to how much it needs to change for the sake of commercial interest, I'm really sick, and disgusted with that, and I think it is best to keep it in the board meetings.

[Doc Austin]

As in, no overtaking except for in the pits and off the start-line?

No overtaking except wheel to wheel on the track is what we want. It can be done, but not unless you crack down on the chopping, blocking and swerving.

Watch Indycar and you'll see 100 clean passes every race, You'll also see 25 bumper car passes, but those are ok because the cars are pretty safe and if they touch racing hard it's better than watching them follow each other around.

[Doc Austin]

What is real competition?

One set of rules for everyone with no tire compound requirements, so DRS, and no push to pass buttons. Ypu either get it done with the wheel and petals or your don't.

This is why Americans love sprint cars. It's just balls out racing. It's not quite my thing, but I prefer it to something manufacturered and tailored to falsely look competitive.


Front-engined cars, spoke wheels and narrow tyres?

No, the current cars are fine if you take off the DRS.

As far as the tires, there were complaints last year the Pirelli was so hard you could do a whole weekend on a single set, so let's use those. You know, what would that do to the average team's tire bill? Without tire changes, everything would have to be accomplished on the track, which I believe is what interests most of us anyway.

I remember in the old days a put stop of any kind would kill your chances and we need to get back to that.




When I joined this forum, everyone complained about how boring the races were. Everyone wished there was more overtaking.

There was so much chopping, blocking and swerving going on during that time that trying to pass anyone was a death sentence. Stop the dirty driving and racing suddenly happens.

Also, screw safety. We need grass run off areas and concrete walls ten feet from the racing surface. Now you can run ten feet off the road and rejoin without losing more than a few feet to your competition. that sort of thing used to kill you, so drivers drove a little better and respected each other more. It is wonderful that the cars are also safe, but I believe if you get four wheels over the curb, you should hit something and put yourself out of the race.


Now there's plenty of wheel-to-wheel action and everyone is complaining that it is all fake, and they would prefer it as it was... whatever that means.

If they just get rid of the DRS, that would help. the DRS gives an advantage to the guy in the rear and makes the guy in front a sitting duck. It s extremely unfair to a guy who works his way forward and the simple push of the buttom propels the guy behind by him. Fake. Fake. Fake. Fake.

The kers and the ers and all of that is the same thing for everyone. Once the engine companies get that fully figured out, we will hardly ever hear about it.


As for viewing figures falling...

TV numbers for all racing suck right now. It's just a cycle.

Sadly, the biggest TV numbers came right after Dale Earnhardt was killed, and right after Senna was killed.


I don't think they have anything to do with rule changes at all.

If they get rid of the DRS and tire rules, at least it will be real again. check Utube for some of the old GPs with no refueling and no tire changes, and even the ones with no wings. It was real. It was pure.

[Doc Austin]

Here is your REAL racing....................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeREa0HUrXY

[Duncan]

I think they need to just put a big block of concrete there and if you hit it your penalty is self enforcing. Today if you run off the track you run off onto asphalt and you can rejoin losing only a few seconds. In that past, you would die. I don't want to see people dying, but I also don't want to see them run of the track with no consequence.

Two words: Spike strips. That should take care of it.


DRS and push to pass are phoney. Mandatory option tires are phoney. There is so much phoney stuff going on that this is the real reason people are losiong interest. racing needs to be real again.

Indeed. I have a particular dislike for DRS, which seems like such a ridiculous contrivance to artificially create more passes.

One other thing: I started watching some of the GP2 races, which NBC Sports is now carrying. There's some pretty good racing going on there with everybody driving basically the same car and no stupid gimmicks...

[Doc Austin]

One other thing: I started watching some of the GP2 races, which NBC Sports is now carrying. There's some pretty good racing going on there with everybody driving basically the same car and no stupid gimmicks...

Thanks. I will definitely give that a look.

[Ranger]

Here is your REAL racing....................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeREa0HUrXY

If you want F1 to be a spec series and race on ovals, then there is your answer.

I like both series as they are thanks.

Although hopefully IndyCar can move towards the profile it had in the early-mid 1990s.

[Doc Austin]

If you want F1 to be a spec series and race on ovals, then there is your answer.

I didn't exactly say that.

What I liked about the 500 this year was no push to pass, no fuel mileage racing, no DRS, no option tires and no phony baloney BS. Here's the greatest race in the world...........go for it. It does not get any more epic than that.



I like both series as they are thanks

I'de be perfectly fine with F1 if they just dropped the phony baloney DRS and phony tire compounds. I'm one of the few people who actually likes the new cars. I just don't like some of the phony aspects


Although hopefully IndyCar can move towards the profile it had in the early-mid 1990s.

Never gonna happen. The loss of the cigarette and alcohol money just killed them, and then the manufacturers bailed and the whole thing imploded. Add to that the confusion and hatred of the split, we are lucky we have anything left at all.

[Tazio]

Here is your REAL racing....................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeREa0HUrXY
:sailor: Almost as close as the comp' for hottest McBabe, which I'd have to say Castronevas' gf edges Hunter-Reay's wifey. :pimp: :dog:

[zako85]

Once you have rain and safety cars in every other race, the novelty will wear out and the show will feel fake and also unfair to too many drivers. How many good fast cars got screwed up by untimely safety car in Hungary?


This is also my beef with IndyCar currently. Some races see up to seven safety cars. It can be a miserable experience to watch this.

[TheFamousEccles]

:sailor: Almost as close as the comp' for hottest McBabe, which I'd have to say Castronevas' gf edges Hunter-Reay's wifey. :pimp: :dog:

My wordy-lordy yes! Curse these dashing racer types and their supermodel adornments making me feel all underachieving-ish. Oh, whats that? Yes dear, I will put the bins out after I've watched this...

[donKey jote]

Two words: Spike strips. That should take of it ..
Too dangerous.
how about electronic kill switches to shut down or set the car in fail mode if you drive out of bounds :bandit:

[Jag_Warrior]

:sailor: Almost as close as the comp' for hottest McBabe, which I'd have to say Castronevas' gf edges Hunter-Reay's wifey. :pimp: :dog:

Yeah, but Helio in a dress trumps them both!