2014 Hungarian GP Thread

[steveaki13]

Wow, with just one week between Germany and Hungary, once again its time to post my little preview. :)

This race maybe a chance for Red Bull to get back ahead of Williams (whose strength is straight line speed) and get closer to Mercedes.

Drivers Championship after 10 Rounds



1
Nico Rosberg
Mercedes
190


2
Lewis Hamilton
Mercedes
176


3
Daniel Ricciardo
Red Bull
106


4
Fernando Alonso
Ferrari
97


5
Valterri Bottas
Williams
91


6
Sebastian Vettel
Red Bull
82


7
Nico Hulkenberg
Force India
69


8
Jenson Button
Mclaren
59


9
Kevin Magnussen
Mclaren
37


10
Felipe Massa
Williams
30


11
Sergio Perez
Force India
29


12
Kimi Raikkonen
Ferrari
19


13
Jean Eric Vergne
Toro Rosso
9


14
Romain Grosjean
Lotus
8


15
Danii Kyvat
Toro Rosso
6


16
Jules Bianchi
Marussia
2


17
Adrian Sutil
Sauber
0


18
Marcus Ericsson
Caterham
0


19
Pastor Maldonado
Lotus
0


20
Esteban Gutierrez
Sauber
0


21
Max Chilton
Marussia
0


22
Kamui Kobayashi
Caterham
0









Constructors Championship after 10 Rounds




1
Mercedes
366


2
Red Bull
188


3
Williams
121


4
Ferrari
116


5
Force India
98


6
Mclaren
96


7
Toro Rosso
15


8
Lotus
8


9
Marussia
2


10
Sauber
0


11
Caterham
0



2014 Hungarian GP

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Hungaroring.svg/569px-Hungaroring.svg.png

70 Laps

Lap Record: 1:19:071 - Michael Schumacher - Ferrari - 2004
Session Times - Local & (Uk -Sorry :vampire:)

FP1: 10:00am-11:30 am - (9:00am - 10:30am)
FP 2: 14:00pm-15:30pm -(13:00pm-14:30pm)

FP3: 11:00am-12:00pm - (10:00am-11:00am)
Quali: 14:00pm - (13:00pm)

Race: 14:00pm - (13:00pm)

Previous Winners1986: Nelson Piquet - Williams
1987: Nelson Piquet - Williams
1988: Ayrton Senna - Mclaren
1989: Nigel Mansell - Ferrari
1990: Thierry Boutsen - Williams
1991: Ayrton Senna - Mclaren
1992: Ayrton Senna - Mclaren
1993: Damon Hill - Williams
1994: Michael Schumacher - Benetton
1995: Damon Hill - Williams
1996: Jacques Villeneuve - Williams
1997: Jacques Villeneuve - Williams
1998: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
1999: Mika Hakkinen - Mclaren
2000: Mika Hakkinen - Mclaren
2001: Michael Shumacher - Ferrari
2002: Rubens Barrichello - Ferrari
2003: Fernando Alonso - Renault
2004: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2005: Kimi Raikkonen - Mclaren
2006: Jenson Button - Honda
2007: Lewis Hamilton - Mclaren
2008: Heikki Kovalainen - Mclaren
2009: Lewis Hamilton - Mclaren
2010: Mark Webber - Red Bull
2011: Jenson Button - Mclaren
2012: Lewis Hamilton - Mclaren
2013: Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes

Lewis Hamilton - 4 wins
Michael Schumacher - 4 wins
Ayrton Senna - 3 wins
Nelson Piquet - 2 wins
Jenson Button - 2 wins
Damon Hill - 2 wins
Mika Hakkinen - 2 wins
Jacques Villeneuve -2 wins
Thierry Boutsen - 1 win
Fernando Alonso - 1 win
Kimi Raikkonen - 1 win
Nigel Mansell - 1 win
Rubens Barrichello - 1 win
Heikki Kovalainen - 1 win
Mark Webber - 1 win

Teams
Mclaren - 11 wins
Williams - 7 wins
Ferrari - 5 wins
Mercedes - 1 win
Renault - 1 win
Red Bull - 1 win
Honda - 1 win
Benetton - 1 win



So there we have it. Lewis Hamilton owns this circuit of the current drivers, and he really needs to continue his domination, otherwise I see Rosberg winning the title, given his consistency and calm headedness.

Mclaren will not be adding to their 11 wins around here is my out there prediction of the weekend. :p

All in all its a race not many look forward too, but personally I always enjoy. It has provided some real duds, but also some amazing memories.

Mansell winning from 13th,
Boutsen defending all race to win,
Hills first win,
Hills near win in an Arrows,
Schumi's amazing 3 stopper in 1998
Schumi winning his 4 Championship in 2001
Alonso in his Renault leading Webber in a Jag and winning his first race
Button winning that amazing wet race.
Alonso v Hamilton in the 2007 race, after the Quali issues.
Massa retiring on the penultimate lap and Kovalainen winning his first race
Button winning after an amazing race with Hamilton 2011

All good memories around a track regarded as dull.

Anyway what will 2014 serve up. Not long to wait.

[airshifter]

And the pickems link... come on and give your picks!

http://www.motorsportforums.com/listpickem.php?series=f1&round=11

Winner of each race gets to talk smack until the next race they get beat. Winner for the year gets to talk smack until they get beat down at the first official race the following year. Ask Taz. :laugh:

[steveaki13]

Mornin guys

Anyone watching Practice?

Anyway be interesting to see whether Mercedes are still in front here and if so how much. Red Bull must fancy a better weekend.

[steveaki13]

Wow.... Lap 1 and Max Chilton on fire in the pitlane.

[Tazio]

Morning Steve :angel:

[steveaki13]

Tazzi :wave::wave:

Is it me or do Caterham, Marussia and Lotus seem to be the ones suffering at FRIC removal rather than top teams?

Anyway Mercedes surprisingly still look fast. I thought Red Bull might finally get really close on pace and we might have a actual race on.

[Tazio]

A little surprised to see Ferrari's long run pace almost as good as RB (who appear to be second best) I'm hoping Kimi fights back this race. This is usually a good track for the Kimster!

[truefan72]

Tazzi :wave::wave:

Is it me or do Caterham, Marussia and Lotus seem to be the ones suffering at FRIC removal rather than top teams?

Anyway Mercedes surprisingly still look fast. I thought Red Bull might finally get really close on pace and we might have a actual race on.

yup. the lesson here. be careful what you wish for
I think it was torro rosso ans williams who moaned the loudest though and were instrumental in this entire fiasco. But the smaller teams thought the ruling was going to help them

[dj_bytedisaster]

Tazzi :wave::wave:

Is it me or do Caterham, Marussia and Lotus seem to be the ones suffering at FRIC removal rather than top teams?

Anyway Mercedes surprisingly still look fast. I thought Red Bull might finally get really close on pace and we might have a actual race on.

How??
Engine development has been frozen since February. There simply isn't a chance for the status quo to change. If one at least one Merc gets through - they win. If they both go boom, like in Canada, someone else can have a try.

[Doc Austin]

I hope it rains on Sunday and the Mercedes guy take each other out on the start. Then we can have Botas and Alonso duel the whole race until Botas wins his first GP.

Meanwhile, Lewis and Nico find a spot on a hill, a bottle of Moet, watch the race together and remember why they were such good friends in the past..

[Tazio]

Practice dawgs!

[dj_bytedisaster]

I hope Lewis is not a betting man. Gawd, how much rotten luck can a man have.

[Tazio]

The Boss on fire :eek:

[journeyman racer]

lol! If the bottoms of Hamilton followers aren't sore enough!

[Tazio]

You've referring to the Anglo-Mafia? :confused: :p:

[truefan72]

beyond ridiculous
how can one side of the garage be so incompetent
at this point it is less unlucky and more of a failure by his engineers,
SMH

[dj_bytedisaster]

ROFL !!!!!

Bianchi bumf***s the iceman

[steveaki13]

Seems like the racing Gods want Lewis to lose this Championship.

Double wammy makes the race one sided, at least with two Mercs we have a battle for the win. Now its a Rosberg 70 lap display


Now Kimi and Ferrari punked by Bianchi. Good on Jules. Nice to see them doing well

[Tazio]

Kim got bitch-slapped! :arrows:

[Ranger]

That's a pretty dreadful joke the gods are playing on Lewis.

On the other hand, Raikkonen is just looking dreadful this year. :/

[steveaki13]

Ferrari are completely bonkers, taking such a risk. A bit of poor decision making there to assume the Marussia would be slow.

As for Mercedes. What is happening? Remember early in the season it was easy 1-2's, now their reliability is becoming questionable.

[steveaki13]

That's a pretty dreadful joke the gods are playing on Lewis.

On the other hand, Raikkonen is just looking dreadful this year. :/

You would have to assume the team said Kimi would be safe. I know it wasn't a great lap but he should have been sent out again.

[Tazio]

Dp

[Tazio]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Scuderia_Toro_Rosso_logo.png

:dog:

[Tazio]

Ferrari are completely bonkers, taking such a risk. A bit of poor decision making there to assume the Marussia would be slow. If the options were woth 3 laps they wouldn't have to take those kind of chances with Kimi, who is just slow.



As for Mercedes. What is happening? Remember early in the season it was easy 1-2's, now their reliability is becoming questionable. Someone intentionally cut the Boss' fuel line :angel:

[Tazio]

What a clusterf**k :laugh:

[steveaki13]

If the options were woth 3 laps they wouldn't have to take those kind of chances with Kimi, who is just slow.


Someone intentionally cut the Boss' fuel line :angel:

Hardly dawg Nico's had issues too, but way pack they were Ferrari 2001-2002 reliable, but now more and more issues.


Red Bull to take the Championship? :stareup::devil::kiss:

[Tazio]

:stareup: No someone at Mercedes :devil:

[steveaki13]

If the options were woth 3 laps they wouldn't have to take those kind of chances with Kimi, who is just slow.


Someone at Mercedes intentionally cut the Boss' fuel line :angel:

I heard you first time dawwwwg :dog:

[steveaki13]

K Mag took a big hit.

[truefan72]

teams could have put on wets
oh well, more luck for rosberg

[steveaki13]

Kev's accident was easily worth a Red Flag.

Other drivers were likely to follow him off and into the wall

[Tazio]

:stareup: Not Fred! :dozey:

[steveaki13]

Nico pulled that out of the bag just in time. I thought Seb might actually do it, but that Merc is even round here just a bit too fast.

I think it should be an interesting race tomorrow.

[journeyman racer]

Hehehe Sucked in Vettel! No Pole for you!


You've referring to the Anglo-Mafia? :confused: :p:

All I'm saying is. If it weren't for reliability, Massa would've been the 08 champion. I'm not even going to mention the points Hamilton gained from the least deserved, biggest fluke win ever in F1 (Monaco).

[Tazio]

Hehehe Sucked in Vettel! No Pole for you!



All I'm saying is. If it weren't for reliability, Massa would've been the 08 champion. I'm not even going to mention the points Hamilton gained from the least deserved, biggest fluke win ever in F1 (Monaco). I know exactly what you are saying I remember after 2007 many were saying how dominant he will be when he has more experience, I said then that that may be the best season of his career, because he was really focused (until the end), and I still haven't seen anything to suggest I was wrong. The Boss has had some bad luck through the years, and may be the fastest pilot out there, but that don't feed the bulldog.

[journeyman racer]

I know exactly what you are saying I remember after 2007 many were saying how dominant he will be when he has more experience, I said then that that may be the best season of his career, because he was really focused (until the end), and I still haven't seen anything to suggest I was wrong. The Boss has had some bad luck through the years, and may be the fastest pilot out there, but that don't feed the bulldog.

If you make posts like this, I may not get upset the next time you pay out on Raikkonen!

I said "I may not"...

[Doc Austin]

beyond ridiculous
how can one side of the garage be so incompetent
at this point it is less unlucky and more of a failure by his engineers,
SMH

It might just simply be Nico's year and nothing Hamilton can do will matter. Some times, you just can't lose.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Hehehe Sucked in Vettel! No Pole for you!



All I'm saying is. If it weren't for reliability, Massa would've been the 08 champion. I'm not even going to mention the points Hamilton gained from the least deserved, biggest fluke win ever in F1 (Monaco).


Bitter much??

[truefan72]

Kev's accident was easily worth a Red Flag.

Other drivers were likely to follow him off and into the wall

I suppose so, upon reflection, the red flag was the right call

[steveaki13]

I suppose so, upon reflection, the red flag was the right call

Yes, I agree Nico got a bit of luck again, but with rain and marshalls attending the accident of K Mag, I think a Red Flag was a right call.

[journeyman racer]

Bitter much??
Well. Considering I've made a number of opinions comparable to yours (although, in a much less offensive manner than you express). Yet the first time you've quoted me, was to have a pop at me for the minimal amount of delight I got out of Vettel missing out on pole. I'd say yes, you are bitter much. In fact, I'd say you are bitter a lot! A LOT!

[TheFamousEccles]

Poor Lulu, it's because he's black, innit?

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/it-s-getting-beyond-bad-luck-it-s-something-else-lewis-hamilton

Granted, it's shocking luck having tech malfunction 2 meetings on the trot. But you could see the bottom lip from under the helmet. That Cherman tourenwagen doesn't like our Pritish chums (apologies to Eurotrash - the best tv variety from the 90's).

[Koz]

Dang, and he goes home to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vma2R8NZT1A

[Tazio]

:stareup:....And people say his luck is bad? :dozey: :sailor: :angel:

[airshifter]

The rain almost stayed long enough to really mix things up, but dried up just in time.

Great lap by Seb, and a good start by either him or Bottas might make things harder on Nico. You do have to wonder if those Mercs are more high strung than the others though. Even though much of the bad luck is going Hamiltons way right now, the other side of the pit has to be nervous when a car goes up in flames.

Ferrari strategy with Kimi already nominated for donkey of the race. It should be simple for the red cars in Q1.

It should be interesting to see if Bottas or Ricciardo can take a race to Vettel. Seb looked pretty strong in qually. I hope reliability concerns allow one of the three of them to at least keep in touch with the Mercedes.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well. Considering I've made a number of opinions comparable to yours (although, in a much less offensive manner than you express). Yet the first time you've quoted me, was to have a pop at me for the minimal amount of delight I got out of Vettel missing out on pole. I'd say yes, you are bitter much. In fact, I'd say you are bitter a lot! A LOT!

How can I? Vettel starts second as far as I know. That's 20 positions up from Lewis. It is you, who's so sore up the backside. I think I've been a lot more level-headed accepting the troubles my preferred driver had this year than you. I don't need to lash out at Lewis or Nico, just because Seb didn't win. Unlike you, apparently.
And that doesn't even account for the fact that you are yammering on a very high level. Lewis still has a car that can take him to the podium no matter where he starts. You are just bumhurt that he doesn't lead the championship. Too bad, unlike Seb the last four years he actually has a team mate who knows how to drive a motor vehicle.

[steveaki13]

One major question is, will the dirty side of the grid have an effect?

Back in the days cars 2nd, 4th, 6th could end up in 8th, 9th and 10th.

These days its not such an issue cause they sweep up. Just hope it doesnt as Seb jumping Nico would be really exciting

[journeyman racer]

How can I? Vettel starts second as far as I know. That's 20 positions up from Lewis. It is you, who's so sore up the backside. I think I've been a lot more level-headed accepting the troubles my preferred driver had this year than you. I don't need to lash out at Lewis or Nico, just because Seb didn't win. Unlike you, apparently.
And that doesn't even account for the fact that you are yammering on a very high level. Lewis still has a car that can take him to the podium no matter where he starts. You are just bumhurt that he doesn't lead the championship. Too bad, unlike Seb the last four years he actually has a team mate who knows how to drive a motor vehicle.
Which driver do I "support"?

[steveaki13]

Which driver do I "support"?

Anyone who isn't Vettel ;)

[journeyman racer]

I don't warm to Vettel, as I do with other. But dj whatshisname is responding as though I'm a Hamilton follower.

[steveaki13]

I don't warm to Vettel, as I do with other. But dj whatshisname is responding as though I'm a Hamilton follower.

Anyone who doesn't warm to Vettel is a Hamilton fan according to Dj :devil::cheese:

[henners88]

Old habits die hard here.

I can only laugh at Hamilton's poor luck, what else can you do? I just hope his car is reliable enough to get to the top 4 again by race end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[dj_bytedisaster]

I don't warm to Vettel, as I do with other. But dj whatshisname is responding as though I'm a Hamilton follower.

Well, frankly I only guessed that because of the bitter tone of your post. There were only two fanbases with a reason for such frustration - HAM and RAI and the Kimi supporters aren't usually that vocal and sore. If that's not the case, I'm frankly lost as to why you take the time to post in a forum to slag off a driver who's had had his best weekend of this year so far. You could of course be a slightly more civilized version of Gary Walker, who only drops by to vent his hate of Vettel and buggers off again, but I didn't really expect more than one person to be afflicted by that mental condition.

[steveaki13]

Old habits die hard here.

I can only laugh at Hamilton's poor luck, what else can you do? I just hope his car is reliable enough to get to the top 4 again by race end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


I am a bit worried about his reliability today, it must be hard to get a car 100% after all that.

Anyway I honestly believe top 4 will be near impossible. I see Rosberg winning and then Red Bulls & Williams and maybe Alonso safe, so Lewis maybe looking at 6th or 7th at best.

However if it rains it could help Lewis massively.

Also depends how quick he clears Caterhams, Marussias, Saubers, Lotuses really. If he jumps them all after 5 laps and get to 12th or so quickly he could still get a top 4 or 5, however if he is only 12th after 25 laps, then it will be only an 8th -10th place I reckon.

The cars fast, the tracks hard to overtake on, Lewis is aggressive and so it all indicates an exciting race. :)

If Hamilton makes the podium it will be some drive. If it turns a bit crazy and he wins it will be one of the great drives.

He is lucky that he is in the pits in one way and won't get caught in first lap incidents, however if he started 22nd on the grid he could be 16th by the end of lap 1.

[steveaki13]

Its wet in Budapest, could be an intermediate tyre start :) Could give Seb or a Williams a chance to jump Rosberg and make an interesting race.

If Rosberg leads away in the dry its game over and a 71 lap proccession

[Tazio]

Morning dawgs! :dog: :wave:
Yeah rain!

[steveaki13]

Mornin Tazzi

Its slightly wet for the start :eek: must be a SC start then :dozey:

[donKey jote]

hay gurlz :bandit:

[Tazio]

Steve, Donks :wave: :dork:
I'm predicting another Masa incident! :angel:

[donKey jote]

well done squiggy... he's still in ! :devil:

[steveaki13]

Hammy facing backwards already :p

[donKey jote]

stoopid f1 app lap times aren't working :mad:

[donKey jote]

SC

[donKey jote]

pit lottery :D

[donKey jote]

now the top 4 pit :dozey:

[donKey jote]

:crazy:

[dj_bytedisaster]

now the top 4 pit :dozey:

Had no choice SC was called when they were already past the pit entry - rotten bit of luck actually

[donKey jote]

rogro :dozey:

[dj_bytedisaster]

*facepalm* RoGro

[Tazio]

Rosberg smoking?

[steveaki13]

Rosberg smoking from the right rear brake and Grosjean spinning under SC :dozey:

[steveaki13]

Rosberg smoking?

Its a bad habbit, he should try E cigarettes :p

[steveaki13]

Could we actually have a non Mercedes win????

Probably not :p

[dj_bytedisaster]

HAM already 10. Bit of luck to offset his rotten day y'day

[donKey jote]

nothing like a SC to mix thing up :dozey: :D

[Tazio]

Great stuff !! :eek:

[donKey jote]

Fred setting purples :eek:

[dj_bytedisaster]

VET must think he's in the wrong movie - faster than RIC consistently over the weekend, and danny leads, he's 6th. Someone sold Rosberg a rotten day, too...

[gm99]

Maldonado...
Hülkenberg also thinking he's doing bumper cars..

[veeten]

it's not dry everywhere on the track. Go off the line, and pay the price... :s

[dj_bytedisaster]

Not a good day for ze Germans :(

[veeten]

'Devil & the deep blue sea' for Vettel. Trying to keep up with Nico and getting pushed by Ham.

[donKey jote]

perez :dozey:

[dj_bytedisaster]

kaboom, second FI kaputt...

[gm99]

Another safety car - pretty hard hit for Perez, but he looks to be okay.

[veeten]

WOAH!!!!!! that looked bad.

[donKey jote]

this is getting like nascar :p

[steveaki13]

Perez smash, Hope he's ok. Damn Force India ruining there own race today.

[donKey jote]

ALO stays out again :uhoh:

[gm99]

The way this is going, it might well be a timed race.

[steveaki13]

Wow..... Who the hells is in the best position now.... Crazy stuff

[dj_bytedisaster]

this is getting like nascar :p

We didn't have 'the big one' yet. But help is at hand - Gutierrez is still running :P

[donKey jote]

Barbie whinging on VER :dozey:

[steveaki13]

Rosberg calling for a Penalty for the Toro Rosso :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

Rosberg, what the fuck ??!!?? Drive you ninny

[steveaki13]

We didn't have 'the big one' yet. But help is at hand - Gutierrez is still running :P

And Pastor :eek:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Williams on Primes - trying to go till the end??

[steveaki13]

Kamui out

[dj_bytedisaster]

Give 'nando half a chance and he takes it - brilliant drive from him so far

[donKey jote]

a few fastests in a row :crazy:

[veeten]

Things settling down...

[donKey jote]

VET :eek:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Vettel just can't buy a break...

[gm99]

Wow, Vettel was lucky not to hit the pit wall there!

[steveaki13]

I agree about Fred....

Now Seb spins and somehow keeps it going. Like Perez goes on the astro turf.

[Tazio]

Nice freakin' spin!

[veeten]

caught that spot, just like Perez, and around he went.

[steveaki13]

Wow Hamilton around the outside up the hill. Impressive

[gm99]

Great overtake by Hamilton - I wouldn't be at all surprised if he stays ahead of Rosberg after the pit stop.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Lewis could win this - from the friggin' pitlane

[steveaki13]

Hamilton's car overheating?

[donKey jote]

HAM unleashed :eek:

[steveaki13]

Just over half distance and black clouds over head :laugh:

[steveaki13]

It looks to me like a Ricciardo win at the moment and then Hamilton, Alonso and co for 2nd and back

[donKey jote]

ALO soft again :dozey:

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think HAM - SC's just at the right time and a sublime drive.

[steveaki13]

Hamilton on Medium tyres???? Is that going to work?

He might be faster at the end, but others will be faster now surely

[dj_bytedisaster]

Is that freakin' kimi on 3 ?? :eek:

[donKey jote]

Kimi still has it... punked VET ! :eek:

[veeten]

well, here's something we haven't seen in a while. Raikkonen in the top 3, before that pit.

[steveaki13]

They are now behind Pastor though, so Retirement looms :p

[Tazio]

Nice work by Kimi on Seb!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Never since Mansell's 13->1 did we see a Hungarian GP this entertaining. Vettel vs Kimi was brutal, but two champs really fighting hard - brilliant stuff

[steveaki13]

Hamilton catching Alonso slowly, Rosberg catching Hamilton quicker.

Rock on for the Battle to come

[steveaki13]

Never since Mansell's 13->1 did we see a Hungarian GP this entertaining. Vettel vs Kimi was brutal, but two champs really fighting hard - brilliant stuff

This.

[steveaki13]

I think Hamilton will be on the wrong tyre.

I fancy a Ricciardo v Rosberg battle for the win.

[steveaki13]

Hamilton complaining of an overheating seat, thus an overheating car

[dj_bytedisaster]

Williams! Y U no take options??

[donKey jote]

HAM for the win... sore bums all around :laugh:

[steveaki13]

Oh Rosberg has got to stop again. Hamilton asked to let Rosberg through for strategy.

If your Hamilton do you believe Mercedes :D He could let Rosberg through and suddenly Rosberg can manage the tyres to the end. :p

[AndyL]

Hamilton complaining of an overheating seat, thus an overheating car

Saying he's getting a hot seat like in Montreal :eek:

[steveaki13]

Hamilton sounds a bit paranoid after all his issues lately.

[donKey jote]

oooh handbags time :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

HAM being asked to pay back Malaysia 2013? What the heck was that all about?

[donKey jote]

shame we don't get Lewis' answer :laugh:

[donKey jote]

who's more Hungary ? :andrea:

[donKey jote]

cos you're too slow, Nico, that's why :laugh:

[Tazio]

The Boss ain't letting him through.....Cool :p:

[dj_bytedisaster]

shame we don't get Lewis' answer :laugh:

It was foreseeable ;) 'Why should I wait for Nico?' - There'll be handbags flying in the merc bunker tonight

[veeten]

team: 'Nico is faster than you...'

Ham: ' Prove it!!'

Ooohhh...:p

[steveaki13]

If it is strategy Hamilton should move over, but Rosberg needs to be as close as possible, cause its a two way thing. Letting a team mate through without losing 2 seconds is the issue.

Tough call all round.

If Rosberg gets there, he should let him through if its guarenteed Nico has another stop. They must not then keep Rosberg out and finish ahead of Lewis.

Plus Ricciardo is going to catch Hamilton for the win. Tough tough calls all round

[veeten]

rears going off for Daniel.

[steveaki13]

Alonso for the win :D

[donKey jote]

whodathunkit... 55/70 and Alo still has a brief moment of glory :eek: :crazy:

[steveaki13]

Alonso can he get to the end?

Hamilton is slow on Mediums

Rosberg trying to get to the end on softs

and Ricciardo fast on soft tyres.

so Daniel Ricciardo must be on for this win, followed by Alonso, then one of the Mercs.

[steveaki13]

Ricciardo must win.

Alonso or Hamilton 2nd and 3rd

Thats my prediction

[donKey jote]

1:26 from RIC :up:

[donKey jote]

RIC a second per SECTOR faster :crazy:

[gm99]

Alonso can he get to the end?

Hamilton is slow on Mediums

Rosberg trying to get to the end on softs

and Ricciardo fast on soft tyres.

so Daniel Ricciardo must be on for this win, followed by Alonso, then one of the Mercs.

I doubt Ricciardo will be able to get past Hamilton, regardless of how bad his tires are. The Red Bull is just lacking too much top speed vis á vis the Merc.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Rosberg caught in the worst traffic imaginable.

[steveaki13]

Ricciardo must have this win surely. He just needs to keep calm and traction will see him pass both ahead, despite lack of straight line speed

Can Alonso keep going to the end?

[veeten]

only a late shower or a crash can derail the outcome that will be given to... Riccairdo.

[steveaki13]

I doubt Ricciardo will be able to get past Hamilton, regardless of how bad his tires are. The Red Bull is just lacking too much top speed vis á vis the Merc.

Hear what you're saying, but surely 2-3 seconds a lap faster with traction somewhere must have a chance.

[steveaki13]

How sweet would a Fred win be :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

8 laps from home and the top 3 covered by a blanket - how brilliant is that?

[steveaki13]

Hoping Alonso holds on.

I reckon Alonso will hold it, or Ricciardo. Hamilton will either be passed by Ricciardo or not pass Alonso

[dj_bytedisaster]

Shut the fuck up Lewis

[steveaki13]

Could Rosberg catch them all

[gm99]

Rosberg might yet join the action - he's catching the top three at three seconds a lap!

[steveaki13]

Ricciardo going for it. Great stuff

[steveaki13]

Anyone of 4 could win this. Amazing

[donKey jote]

holy guacamole :eek:

[dj_bytedisaster]

My first 10/10 race of the season, I'm devouring my fingernails here...

[steveaki13]

How is Alonso still in the lead on old Soft tyres?????????????????/

[veeten]

Alonso is white-knuckles, Lewis is trying every trick in the book. But can they deny Daniel?...

[steveaki13]

Ricciardo will win now. Shame for Fred.

Great pass by Daniel

[veeten]

One down, One to go...:D

[gm99]

Ok, I was wrong with regard to Ricciardo not being able to pass Hamilton ;) Well done!

[donKey jote]

epic race, don't care who takes it :D

[steveaki13]

Ricciardo wins then.

Will it be Alonso, Hamilton or Rosberg 2nd

[veeten]

Alonso... Dispatched! :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm going to need CPR after this

[steveaki13]

Rosberg could pass Hamilton on the last lap :D

[donKey jote]

dirty :D

[donKey jote]

fokking MAGIC ALONSO :D :D :D :D

[truefan72]

so in the end hamilton was right to not let nico pass, if he did, he would have lost out to him

[pino]

Once again amazing Alonso !!!

[pino]

Congrats to Ric anyway :up:

[steveaki13]

Wow what a race.

The best of the season for me. :)

[gm99]

so in the end hamilton was right to not let nico pass, if he did, he would have lost out to him

And if he had let him pass, Rosberg would have been second at worst - I wonder if the team is going to be very happy about this.

Still, a great finish! Shame there's a four week break now...

[N4D13]

And if he had let him pass, Rosberg would have been second at worst - I wonder if the team is going to be very happy about this.

Still, a great finish! Shame there's a four week break now...
I don't like Hamilton and I think he was selfish, but if I had been in his shoes, I'd told the team to f@#k off. They can't expect Hamilton to let his teammate through when the WCC is all but secured and they're in a straight fight for the WDC. That's just ridiculous.

[steveaki13]

Wrong decision for the team, but the right decision for Hamilton and his World Championship.

I would expect most drivers to do the same in those circumstances

[Tazio]

so in the end hamilton was right to not let nico pass, if he did, he would have lost out to himAbsolutely, these guys need to stop micro-managing the races. Well done Lewis!

[steveaki13]

I don't like Hamilton and I think he was selfish, but if I had been in his shoes, I'd told the team to f@#k off. They can't expect Hamilton to let his teammate through when the WCC is all but secured and they're in a straight fight for the WDC. That's just ridiculous.

Absolutely. Any driver needs to be selfish, when its only a wdc to fight for.

[Garry Walker]

Nico wasn't any faster than Lewis, so LH did the right thing.

[steveaki13]

Tough one for Merc. If Rosberg was let past Hamilton he could have won, but for Lewis and his World Championship he had to do what he did, otherwise he loses 10 points to Nico. Instead he gains 3. A big difference for the sake of a needless win (in terms of Constructors which is already theirs)

[truefan72]

toto wolff is the man
he quite succinctly absolved hamilton of any fault
and said in review, that they were fighting for the WDC and that hamilton's situation played a point as to why they did not further press the issue

it has to be commendable that wolff said what he did
quite simply if hamilton let rosberg through he would have finished behind him

as to Rosberg, it is sad that he is telling sky that he did not ask for hamilton to let him through; that it was the team that pushed the issue smh

[Garry Walker]

toto wolff is the man
he quite succinctly absolved hamilton of any fault
and said in review, that they were fighting for the WDC and that hamilton's situation played a point as to why they did not further press the issue

I was told that he said something else to German tv, not so nice towards hamilton

[steveaki13]

as to Rosberg, it is sad that he is telling sky that he did not ask for hamilton to let him through; that it was the team that pushed the issue smh

To be fair, how do you know that wasn't the case?

We heard Nico saying "Why isn't he letting me through" not "He should let me through"

There is a difference. If the team said Lewis would let him through and then he didn't, Nico probably did wonder what had happened.

[steveaki13]

I was told that he said something else to German tv, not so nice towards hamilton

Who told you that? ;)

Source? :p

[gm99]

It's true - in an interview with either Austrian or German tv (can't remember which one, as I was switching between the two), Wolff did not look too happy about the situation and called it a "problem that will need to be addressed within the team".

[Hawkmoon]

Short of neither Rosberg nor Hamiton completing the season there's no chance that Mercedes aren't going to win both championships. If I were running the team I'd park the team orders and let them race, best driver wins. Short of them having each other off what is there to lose?

[steveaki13]

Thats right.

If Mercedes are angry because Nico could have won the race, then thats a shame, because for the drivers at this point the WDC is most important and the generally health of the sport we need a close Championship fight over Mercedes winning another race

[gm99]

I don't think you can blame a team for wanting to win races in addition to winning the championship. I understand both sides in this, Lewis did what was best for him, Merc wanted him to do what's best for the team.

[Zico]

Haven't watched the full race yet and never thought I'd say this but the Red Bull/Ricciardo win is very satisfying. So is Hamilton finishing in front of Rosberg which helps keep the WDC close.

No team orders at Merc? The right decision by Hamilton not to gift the position to Nico, if Nico had made a move then obviously a different story but no, slowing down and losing aprox 2 seconds would have severely compromised Lewis's race.. bad call by Merc Imo, they have a big enough lead in the WCC already and should just let the drivers fight it out. I'd also have thought an exciting battle to the end for the WDC between their drivers would have more advertising/PR value than Merc race win stats?

[N4D13]

Here's a question for the statistics guys: had anyone claimed a podium after starting from such a low position or the pit lane?

[dj_bytedisaster]

Here's a question for the statistics guys: had anyone claimed a podium after starting from such a low position or the pit lane?

Watson, Long beach, 22->1
Vettel, Abu Dhabi, Pitlane -> 3

[dj_bytedisaster]

Thats right.

If Mercedes are angry because Nico could have won the race, then thats a shame, because for the drivers at this point the WDC is most important and the generally health of the sport we need a close Championship fight over Mercedes winning another race

Vettel was not not afforded the same courtesy. Lewis is applauded for disregarding team orders. Vettel was slammed for it. Ironically in the very same race Lewis was gifted a podium that he didn't deserve, because Rosberg obeyed team orders. There's some serious double standards around here...

[Tazio]

Vettel was not not afforded the same courtesy. Lewis is applauded for disregarding team orders. Vettel was slammed for it. Ironically in the very same race Lewis was gifted a podium that he didn't deserve, because Rosberg obeyed team orders. There's some serious double standards around here...I don't have a favorite In the battle for the WDC, and I would have said the same if the roles were reversed, and Nico disregarded the order.

[Doc Austin]

If Mercedes really wants their drivers to race for it fairy, they should STFU and just them go after each other. So they crash once or twice? No one is going to catch them anyway. at least have some fun.

I will bet you if the team stayed out of it Nico and Lewis would just race hard and stay friends. Remember how much fun they had racing in, oh, wherever that was in the desert? Yeah, the team stayed out of it and just let them race.

When you try to babysit adults, you just turn them back into children.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Why wasn't the same sentiment expressed over Malaysia 2013?

[Doc Austin]

Refresh my memory please.

Wait...... I remember...... It was the second or third race of the season and Mercedes was average at best. They were fighting over third or fourth place, and not the world championship.

Outside of that, I have no idea what other people are thinking. Either let them race or don't, but if you try to manipulate the result people will surely lose interest, something F1 seems to be very preoccupied with right now.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Refresh my memory please.

Wait...... I remember...... It was the second or third race of the season and Mercedes was average at best. They were fighting over third or fourth place, and not the world championship.

Outside of that, I have no idea what other people are thinking. Either let them race or don't, but if you try to manipulate the result people will surely lose interest, something F1 seems to be very preoccupied with right now.

So if they fight for third it's okay to for the team to intervene? They were fighting for third by the way. You lot were so friggin' self-righteous about Malaysia last year - apply the same standards now or be exposed as hypocrites.

[truefan72]

I think most folks, myself included, lambasted RBR for those team orders and i recall arguing strongly for Vettel's right to stay ahead and applauded him for saying "tough luck"
DJ better check the past posts before going on a false crusade

[steveaki13]

Vettel was not not afforded the same courtesy. Lewis is applauded for disregarding team orders. Vettel was slammed for it. Ironically in the very same race Lewis was gifted a podium that he didn't deserve, because Rosberg obeyed team orders. There's some serious double standards around here...

True he did. Although personally I remember I gave Vettel credit for that. I remember thinking along the lines of fair enough if Red Bull called it, but ruthless drivers win titles and races and that is why Seb is of such a high level.

Same today. Mercedes wanted to win a race today, but Lewis needed to do what he did for his title bid.

Same as Rosberg should have passed Hamilton back in Malaysia 2013 as you referred too.

I have no problems with team orders in the right time and place at all, like if Rosberg was battling Vettel for this years title and Hamilton was no where, then Lewis should have moved over.

However drivers should not be criticised for disobeying them either, after all teams surely buy drivers who will do that extra to win?

Thats why I hope Mercedes don't get petty over Lewis disobeying the orders. Red Bull ultimately did little to Vettel last season and thats correct.

[Tazio]

True he did. Although personally I remember I gave Vettel credit for that. I remember thinking along the lines of fair enough if Red Bull called it, but ruthless drivers win titles and races and that is why Seb is of such a high level.

Same today. Mercedes wanted to win a race today, but Lewis needed to do what he did for his title bid.

Same as Rosberg should have passed Hamilton back in Malaysia 2013 as you referred too.

I have no problems with team orders in the right time and place at all, like if Rosberg was battling Vettel for this years title and Hamilton was no where, then Lewis should have moved over.

However drivers should not be criticised for disobeying them either, after all teams surely buy drivers who will do that extra to win?

Thats why I hope Mercedes don't get petty over Lewis disobeying the orders. Red Bull ultimately did little to Vettel last season and thats correct.I have a very simplistic perspective of the situation between NR and "The Boss" and Lewis' decision to disobey the order. Lewis was faster than Nico in every session this weekend, and was ahead after his last pit stop, to me it is quite understandable why he didn't want to hand the race to NR.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=806376752726501

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think most folks, myself included, lambasted RBR for those team orders and i recall arguing strongly for Vettel's right to stay ahead and applauded him for saying "tough luck"
DJ better check the past posts before going on a false crusade

Everybody is free to disregard my reproach if it doesn't apply to him, but re-read the posts of last year. The vast majority of people called for Vettel's arse on a platter.

[MacFeegle]

Nico close to just under a second at minimum but not maintain gap and fall back. If Lewis throw him 2 seconds plus then disaster. Also, few laps later, Nico start losing time so would hold Lewis up before pitting.

Lewis would lost 3rd at least.

Big question of my is why make Lewis go out on Prime not Option. Both degrade similar but option faster and make good distance as Alonso prove. Lewis have 2nd if option tire fit.

[steveaki13]

I have a very simplistic perspective of the situation between NR and "The Boss" and Lewis' decision to disobey the order. Lewis was faster than Nico in every session this weekend, and was ahead after his last pit stop, to me it is quite understandable why he didn't want to hand the race to NR.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=806376752726501

Thats what I said really, just with alot more around the houses workings. :p

Absolutely Da Boss was entitled to ignore the order. A World Championship is at stake.

Mercedes were entitled to ask and Lewis was entitled to ignore.

[Doc Austin]

So if they fight for third it's okay to for the team to intervene?

I never said it was ok. I'm just pointing out the differences. like you asked me to do.

Let them race or don't let them race. Just spare us the BS drama every week Make a decision and stick with it.



You lot were so friggin' self-righteous about Malaysia last year - apply the same standards now or be exposed as hypocrites.

Produce the quote where I said anything about this Maylasia last year.

I'll wait because you can't do it.

I was not even posting here last year. I was banned, Einstien.

[airshifter]

Great race all around. With the exception of the safety cars, by far the best on track action in Hungary in a long time.


'Nando was fighting his tail off on that last set of tires. Those fast laps and purple sectors saved his podium spot. Without that, Lewis would have probably got him, and Nico may have got him too. Fred earned every bit of that podium and proved he drives hard the entire race.

Once that final strategy call was made, I couldn't for the life of me figure out who was going to get which podium step. All of them did some great driving, and in the end Ricciardo came out on top. Felipe, Kimi, and Seb was some good racing towards the end as well. Shame for Seb that the spin cost him time, as his battle may have been farther up the pack today.

Legit call from the pits by Mercedes, but legit response from Hamilton in ignoring it. Nico had just barely broken into the DRS range, and overall couldn't keep pace. Lewis made it clear he would let him through, but it is just stupid to expect a car to give up that much time to do it. That would have left Hamilton behind the slower Rosberg.





Going into the summer break, at least a few drivers are left scratching their heads.

Kimi is getting walked on by Alonso. Not a huge surprise that 'Nando is getting the better of him, but a huge surprise that the gap is that large and Kimi isn't getting overall results. With Spa coming up, maybe Kimi can finally find some form again.

Seb seems to still be struggling with the car, and at this point after a great qually and Daniel winning, it's got to be getting in his head that his days as #1 driver for the team may well be over. At least he's still pulling points for the team on a regular basis. That spin was the type of thing you don't see much from Seb, and I think he is still suffering with his focus.

Nico vs Lewis - it's freaking on folks. Nico looked like he was about to cry in the post race interview, and rightly so. Lewis has proven that on track, he won't lay down for Nico at any time. That outside pass by Lewis and the laps that he put in surrounding that pass proved he hasn't given up. Though Lewis still seems down about his luck and results, it's pushing him forward. Like it or not, I think Nico was dealt a huge psychological blow going into the break.

Barring more car faults beyond his control, I still think Lewis will overcome Nico for the title.

[The Black Knight]

So if they fight for third it's okay to for the team to intervene? They were fighting for third by the way. You lot were so friggin' self-righteous about Malaysia last year - apply the same standards now or be exposed as hypocrites.

You know there was a time when your posts made sense but now they are just pure dribble and becoming worse and worse as the season progresses and your favorite little boy is being exposed as the average driver he is now that he has not got a massive car advantage.

Vettel defied a pre-race agreement last year not just team orders. Multi-21 eh? If Rosberg and Hammy had a pre-race agreement that he should slow down and let Rosberg by but Hammy didn't then yes he would have been wrong but no such agreement. Like it or not, Hamilton is an honest driver, straight as an arrow unlike Vettel who showed his true colours many times now.

[Robinho]

Can't see what the fuss is about. They were in a direct on track battle. There was no saying that in letting rosberg by Hamilton wouldn't have been the only other car he beat. They are in a direct fight for the championship. IF Hamilton had let rosberg past, and rosberg subsequently stopped for tyres and cruised up behind Hamilton again, do you think he should have been let past a second time? Would/should rosberg have been given the order not to pass a second time?

As it was, rosberg couldn't even stay in the drs, so he was hardly disadvantaged. It was a direct on track fight between 2 rivals and Hamilton had to make the best of the race he could. That meant preventing rosberg from passing. This is precisely nothing like Malaysia, vettel and Webber.

[Hawkmoon]

So if they fight for third it's okay to for the team to intervene? They were fighting for third by the way. You lot were so friggin' self-righteous about Malaysia last year - apply the same standards now or be exposed as hypocrites.

I personally have no problems with team orders and think drivers should do as they are told. I think Hamilton did he wrong thing in ignoring his team but this incident and the 'Multi-21' incident are only superficially related. Vettel ignored a pre-race agreement with Webber and was repeatedly told to hold place by Horner. I think Horner even told Vettel he was being stupid at one point. Vettel deserved criticism because he handled the situation poorly.

However, teams that have two drivers competing for the WDC should think very carefully about whether team orders are appropriate. In this case Mercedes have such a car advantage that there is no threat from behind. One of their drivers will be world champion so the only thing that team orders will achieve is internal discord.

[Robinho]

Great drive from ricciardo though, bit of luck with ten 1st safety car and McLaren's brain fart with the tyres, but he had to make it work after the second safety car and pass the guys on the track and did it well.

[donKey jote]

Hamilton is an honest driver, straight as an arrow.
Most of the time maybe, but he certainly ain't no angel and has also been caught out in downright dishonesty :)

[henners88]

I didn't think I would enjoy this race but ended up being pleasantly surprised. The weather and safety cars really mixed things up. Mercedes really messed up Nico's race by not bringing him in on the first SC and tried to make up for it with team orders. It was a strange one with both drivers so close in the championship. I could understand a hold position command that close to the end of the race with either driver in front of the other, but a call to let Nico through? That was always going to be ignored I think.

Lewis had a good recovery drive once again and let's hope this piece of luck continues. He can't really have too much more poor luck and I agreed with his comments about his team needing to up their game because it really does go beyond bad luck of late. A good race though and the gap closes a little once again!

[steveaki13]

Not just Lewis (although his has been worse), but Mercedes generally have been getting worse and worse reliability.

I hope they can sort it out for the title's sake so one or other driver doesn't get screwed by retirements.

Either that or both need to retire alot and let others into the title fight :p

[driveace]

A bad call from Merc I think.They have let him down with problems with his car,on 2 or 3 occasions this season ,where his qualifying has been compromised,and then expect him to let Rosberg past.I would have come back with exactly the same answer,If he is nearer then I will let him past. At that point of the race Lewis was catching Alonso and could have taken 1 st until his tyres went off.Lewis has also suffered by some very slow pit stops too,so looks also like Rosberg has a better team working on his car too ,and if Toto is making nasty remarks on German TV ,then this needs sorting quickly .They should let the drivers race fairly with NO team orders ,and not let the world spectators see how the German team are trying to favor 1 of it's drivers .Paddy Lowe needs to take a step in ,and make sure there is fairness towards both drivers.Lewis big advantage is that he is on 60 million for 3 years against Nico,s 48 millions for 3 years,but you got to have harmony ,and cut the favoritism shown by Toto,and Nici Lauda

[gm99]

Paddy Lowe needs to take a step in ,and make sure there is fairness towards both drivers.Lewis big advantage is that he is on 60 million for 3 years against Nico,s 48 millions for 3 years,but you got to have harmony ,and cut the favoritism shown by Toto,and Nici Lauda

Lauda has totally defended Lewis yesterday and repeatedly said he was right not to let Nico through.

[journeyman racer]

Anyone who doesn't warm to Vettel is a Hamilton fan according to Dj :devil::cheese:

I actually did lol. Brother's going "Wtf?..."


Well, frankly I only guessed that because of the bitter tone of your post.]/b] There were only two fanbases with a reason for such frustration - HAM and RAI and the Kimi supporters aren't usually that vocal and sore. If that's not the case, I'm frankly lost as to why you take the time to post in a forum[b] to slag off a driver who's had had his best weekend of this year so far. You could of course be a slightly more civilized version of Gary Walker, who only drops by to vent his hate of Vettel and buggers off again, but I didn't really expect more than one person to be afflicted by that mental condition.

Bitter tone? Slag off? You must still be recovering from that bender you're on, after the World Cup. Vettel had pole, til the last second. He's had a disproportionate amount of success. I was on the computer at the time. I took a little bit of pleasure that he was denied pole. Big firkin deal!

[journeyman racer]

As it turns out. Hamilton's "bad luck", turned out to actually be some good luck. Having in effect, an extra set of new tyres. Early safety car period, which causes more confusion for the front runners, than those in mid/rear-field. Rosberg was streeting away. Twice in 3 races, Rosberg's been denied control of a race when leading.

Not that any Hamilton nuffie, or season review, will acknowledge it. But I will!

[Bagwan]

Sometimes the driver may be right to question the team's instructions , but during the race it's not usually a good thing .

He's often hellishly compromised if he's got no radio , and we often hear drivers ask , outright , what to do .
He relies on his team now, in today's F1 , more than ever , so when any of them disobey team orders , especially because they get obscene amounts of money to drive these things , I will always see it as petulant .

The best way to have solved this , had they thought of it at the time , might have been to tell both that if Nico could get on Lewis's gearbox , properly , he would let him through at a place that wouldn't compromise him too much .
That would have had them racing against each other , whilst giving a sh!t about each other's race .

We have to remember that Nico's race was horribly compromised by that first SC period , and that Hamilton's was well gifted at the same time , so a little team help from Lewis might have been in order anyway .


Nico did take a stab at one point , when he finally caught up , and had the door closed pretty harshly , with Hamilton crowding him right off the track , if my memory serves me .
I didn't like that , either .
Nico seemed to back out of it after that .

But then , since nobody else has mentioned it that I've seen , maybe my memory doesn't serve me well in this case .


My point , though , is that you should toe the line , as you are likely ignorant of all the facts , and there isn't time to explain .
Whether or not it was a good call is a totally different matter entirely .

[driveace]

And Nico has never pushed Hamilton wide or off the track ?
Come on see both sides of the coin !
Nico gives better than he takes,and I am sure he asked for the pass too

[Tazio]

I didn't think I would enjoy this race but ended up being pleasantly surprised. The weather and safety cars really mixed things up. Mercedes really messed up Nico's race by not bringing him in on the first SC and tried to make up for it with team orders. It was a strange one with both drivers so close in the championship. I could understand a hold position command that close to the end of the race with either driver in front of the other, but a call to let Nico through? That was always going to be ignored I think.

Lewis had a good recovery drive once again and let's hope this piece of luck continues. He can't really have too much more poor luck and I agreed with his comments about his team needing to up their game ecause it really does go beyond bad luck of late. A good race though and the gap closes a little once again! Hennie wasn't it actually the safety car that came out and split the field, while Charley was too busy talking to Bernie and counting his money to notice? ;)
At any rate I hadn't considered that Mercedes were trying to give the race back to Nico in the interest of equity based on his qualifying position. Hamilton's race was compromised by the team in quali after having been fastest in all three practices. I think the lesson here is to deal with the hand you are dealt. For whatever reason The Boss was leading his teammate after Lewis had made his last stop, and he raced Nico from in front for his own gain. All parties have too live with the consequences, that is the breaks of the game.

[Mia 01]

Disobey team orders wont get him a moore reliable car, thats for sure.
But, I can understand Lewis this time, a bit of selfisness, every point counts in the hunt for WDC.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Disobey team orders wont get him a moore reliable car, thats for sure.
But, I can understand Lewis this time, a bit of selfisness, every point counts in the hunt for WDC.

Funny. Didn't the points count for Nico last year when he was forbidden from overtaking Lewis in Malysia? Lewis seems awfully good at taking - the giving part seems a trifle more inconvenient.

[Mia 01]

dj, I agree with your last sentence. But, we have to remember that thoose drivers has to be ruthless (perhaps Nico lacks a bit here) I guess everything comes with a price.

[Bagwan]

And Nico has never pushed Hamilton wide or off the track ?
Come on see both sides of the coin !
Nico gives better than he takes,and I am sure he asked for the pass too

Previous incidents are irrelevant here , as the action of crowding another off the track is illegal .
It's also quite irrelevant as to whether Nico asked for the pass , as , given that the team called Lewis , it should be obvious they agreed with Nico about the idea , if it was , indeed , his .

It turned out well for Hamilton , but to me , it looked a little too paranoid that his own team was trying to screw him .
They weren't .
Perhaps it wasn't a good move from the team , but that shouldn't be Lewis's call .

It put paid to any idea that Rosberg might come back after the additional pit stop , and the hard fight that might ensue as a result .
As a result , we missed what I think might have been an even more exciting finish , with Nico dogging Lewis for much longer .

[steveaki13]

dj, I agree with your last sentence. But, we have to remember that thoose drivers has to be ruthless (perhaps Nico lacks a bit here) I guess everything comes with a price.

You might be correct Mia, Rosberg should have passed Lewis in Malaysia last year, rather than sit behind him for 10 laps. I think if the situation arises Nico will do the same as Lewis next time and so he should. Team orders when two drivers are battling each other for a World title unchallenged by any other teams

anyway no more team orders can be announced now.

[driveace]

Toto says they now made a mistake in asking Lewis to let Nico through,and they will talk about it ,and hopefully leave the two drivers to race .As a RACE is what we all want to see !
In other races,Horse Racing,Marathons,cycle races,etc we don't see a guy slowing to let his team mate pass him ,how can it be correct to "Manufacture " a result when the punters are gambling good ,hard earned money on a result that has been "Manufactured " ?

[truefan72]

A bad call from Merc I think.They have let him down with problems with his car,on 2 or 3 occasions this season ,where his qualifying has been compromised,and then expect him to let Rosberg past.I would have come back with exactly the same answer,If he is nearer then I will let him past. At that point of the race Lewis was catching Alonso and could have taken 1 st until his tyres went off.Lewis has also suffered by some very slow pit stops too,so looks also like Rosberg has a better team working on his car too ,and if Toto is making nasty remarks on German TV ,then this needs sorting quickly .They should let the drivers race fairly with NO team orders ,and not let the world spectators see how the German team are trying to favor 1 of it's drivers .Paddy Lowe needs to take a step in ,and make sure there is fairness towards both drivers.Lewis big advantage is that he is on 60 million for 3 years against Nico,s 48 millions for 3 years,but you got to have harmony ,and cut the favoritism shown by Toto,and Nici Lauda

https://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-mercedes-plans-team-orders-rethink-090053616--f1.html

thankfully I think this will happen now, with wolff saying that they will possibly be free to employ their own strategy and race as they see. I'm also hoping that they are free not to share their own setups etc, except for the vitals and basics. Because there is no doubt that Nico has been the one taking advantage of that caveat.

Anyway it seems like the right time for them to take the gloves off and let the drivers make a run for the WDC themselves. Asx wolff said, realistically, they are so far ahead in the WCC that they can afford to trash that previous agreement.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm also hoping that they are free not to share their own setups etc, except for the vitals and basics. Because there is no doubt that Nico has been the one taking advantage of that caveat.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but Lewis is the one who can't setup a car worth squat. Read the comments of his former karting boss. If Nico is no longer required to share his setups and can keep everything to himself, not only the 'little things' he mentioned recently. Lewis is in a heap of trouble.

[Bagwan]

Whether it was a mistake to ask is a hard question , as Nico did get up to behind Lewis , and was , indeed , on the different tire strategy .
Lewis was told that Nico was to stop again , and , rather unfairly , I must say , decided to ignore , to disadvantage his team mate , and consequently , his team .

Having said that , Nico never got close enough to let his team mate allow him through without causing his own race to suffer .
But , there are two sides to that as well .

If Nico was trailing a little slowly on purpose , in order to make Lewis slow significantly , to allow the pass , or simply to make Lewis more likely balk at the order , then it was some mind games from Nico . Maybe Nico leads in the mind games department , but I don't think he's quite up to this scenario at racing speeds , especially after the disjointed race he had after the first safety car .
If Hamilton was speeding up to keep his team mate back , then wasn't he compromising his own race ? His tires surely would have been in better shape for that end of race battle , had he let the German guy go .


You could say Hamilton sacrificed a chance at the win because he was afraid to race his team mate .
That's not playing for the team .

[dj_bytedisaster]

Having said that , Nico never got close enough to let his team mate allow him through without causing his own race to suffer .

Considering that he caught the people before him at 2.5+ second A LAP and the end, had Lewis just let him past he could have caught Ricciardo or at least Alonso. Instead Nico was forced to strain his tyres (and the brittle brakes) trying to wrestle down Lewis, which he admittedly didn't manage. But the time he lost there was what was missing at the end. It sucked from Lewis' point of view, but if you accept team orders in the second race of the year (Malaysia 2013) you'll have to do so in the 11th as well. What lewis did was 'doing a Webber' - disobey team orders if they don't suit you, demand obedience of your team mate if you profit.
If the team now rallies behind ROS, Lewis has no one else to blame but himself. Nico obeyed last year, Lewis didn't. Which employee would you prefer as a boss?

[henners88]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Lewis is the one who can't setup a car worth squat. Read the comments of his former karting boss. If Nico is no longer required to share his setups and can keep everything to himself, not only the 'little things' he mentioned recently. Lewis is in a heap of trouble.
Paddy Lowe suggested only a few races back that it was Nico who was studying Hamilton's set ups not the other way around. Not sure where you got your impression from, but it's an interesting spin.


Mercedes have gone on the record and admitted they were wrong to ask Lewis to let Nico through. the book appears to be closed on that one and the result spoke for itself. The championship is being fought between team mates. Its not a team mate helping the other one out this year against rival teams and a constructors championship at stake, it's inner team competition.

Nico being forced to let Hamilton through in Malaysia 2013 appalled most people including the vast majority of Hamilton fans across the internet, including myself. Most importantly of all it appalled Lewis who was publicly dismayed by it. Nobody enjoys watching blatant team orders and this is no different for me. many jumped on Vettel because he handled it badly in the aftermath but both Merc drivers in this instance have been wholly professional in front of the sports media regardless of what is happening behind the scenes.

on to the next race, this season is hotting up.

[gm99]

In other races,Horse Racing,Marathons,cycle races,etc we don't see a guy slowing to let his team mate pass him ,how can it be correct to "Manufacture " a result when the punters are gambling good ,hard earned money on a result that has been "Manufactured " ?

You must be joking, right? Team orders are prevelant in professional cycling - it's a highly tactical sport (if you can still call it that after all the doping that has been going on in recent years, but that is an entirely different matter) and riders are expected to yield to their team leader.

[dj_bytedisaster]

In other races,Horse Racing,Marathons,cycle races,etc we don't see a guy slowing to let his team mate pass him ,how can it be correct to "Manufacture " a result when the punters are gambling good ,hard earned money on a result that has been "Manufactured " ?

Sorry, but if you bet money on a random event in hope of getting back more than you deposited instead of spending it on your wife and kids, you should be taken outside and shot in front of your family. If you want money, work for it. Betting money is one of the most ridiculous and asocial abomination one can engage in.

[henners88]

Sorry, but if you bet money on a random event in hope of getting back more than you deposited instead of spending it on your wife and kids, you should be taken outside and shot in front of your family. If you want money, work for it. Betting money is one of the most ridiculous and asocial abomination one can engage in.

Betting with assets and obscene amounts of money is foolish but the odd flutter is acceptable behaviour IMO. I place the odd bet on the grand national or the football but never more than a tenner. The family haven't moaned too much when I've gone home with £380 for a £10 bet. When it becomes regular is when it becomes life changing so let's not generalise lol.

[Doc Austin]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Lewis is the one who can't setup a car worth squat. Read the comments of his former karting boss.

Because we all know how similar a go kart set up is to an F1 car, right?


If Nico is no longer required to share his setups and can keep everything to himself, not only the 'little things' he mentioned recently. Lewis is in a heap of trouble.

Everything I have read indicates Nico spends hours pouring over lewis' data.

Lewis is not in any sort of trouble at all. Any time he gets a clean weekend without a car problem he usually out qualifies Nico and then beats him in the race.

If anything we have two very closely matched drivers who will give us a thrilling championship if the team will just stay out of the way.

[Doc Austin]

And Nico has never pushed Hamilton wide or off the track ?
Come on see both sides of the coin !
Nico gives better than he takes,and I am sure he asked for the pass too

I'm sure Schumacher taught Nico plenty about chopping, blocking and swerving.

Having said that, I am glad Schumacher is getting better. Keep fighting Michael!

[Doc Austin]

If the team now rallies behind ROS, Lewis has no one else to blame but himself. Nico obeyed last year, Lewis didn't. Which employee would you prefer as a boss?

I go straight to Toto Wolfe and say "Just tell me now. If I can't race for the championship and be my own man, I'm going to talk to Ron Dennis."

Sure, a lot of guys would love to driver a Merc, and there would be plenty of potential replacements, but Lewis Hamilton in a McLaren Honda would be utter magic.

[MJW]

I go straight to Toto Wolfe and say "Just tell me now. If I can't race for the championship and be my own man, I'm going to talk to Ron Dennis."

Sure, a lot of guys would love to driver a Merc, and there would be plenty of potential replacements, but Lewis Hamilton in a McLaren Honda would be utter magic.
I think its highly likely Hamilton will be back with uncle Ron. Probably 2016, possibly even 2015.

[Doc Austin]

I think its highly likely Hamilton will be back with uncle Ron. Probably 2016, possibly even 2015.

The best part of that is I like Lewis and I think Rosberg is a charismatic kid who would be a great champion. If they are off the same team, then it is just a matter of racing each other instead of stabbing each other in the back as teammates.

These guys are childhood friends. Having that destroyed is tragic. Get them off the same team and then they can go back to what they love ...... racing each other fairly.

[Doc Austin]

You must be joking, right? Team orders are prevelant in professional cycling - it's a highly tactical sport (if you can still call it that after all the doping that has been going on in recent years, but that is an entirely different matter) and riders are expected to yield to their team leader.

Recent years? I'm betting Eddie Merkx was shooting horse testosterone....or something.

Until recently, I was riding 4000 miles a year and I own two Serottas. I am not a strong rider, but I just love the outdoors and I like bicycles. I like to sweat and breathe hard. Sex is better, but it's not as good of a work out.

I don't remember the guy before lance (was it Indurain?), but he was a Spaniard with a resting heart rate of 40bpm....which is impossible without doping, steroids and other drugs. He won two tours and no one questioned anything.

It was not until an America got off his death bed with his one remaining testicle and handed them their asses over and over that it became a problem. They hounded Armstrong for years and years and years and he never once failed a drug test, not even once, so what makes anyone think the same thing isn't still going on? They couldn't catch Lance and they won't catch the next guy, or the guy after him.

Professional cycling is a dirty sport. I am ashamed I ever gave it any credibility.

Probably what they should do with professional cycling is just have no rules. Let them snort and sniff and smoke and shoot whatever they want They will be twisting off the crank arms and going 100 mph. Guy's hearts will be exploding out their butts, but the rules will be the same for everyone. If they don't care about their own health, why should we?

[MacFeegle]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Lewis is the one who can't setup a car worth squat. Read the comments of his former karting boss. If Nico is no longer required to share his setups and can keep everything to himself, not only the 'little things' he mentioned recently. Lewis is in a heap of trouble.

:laugh:

You read former kart boss interview in German rag and quote as fact? You really grasp straws this time Mr DJ.

[donKey jote]

I don't remember the guy before lance (was it Indurain?), but he was a Spaniard with a resting heart rate of 40bpm....which is impossible without doping, steroids and other drugs. He won two tours and no one questioned anything.
two Giros...
and 5 Tours ;)

[henners88]

I think its highly likely Hamilton will be back with uncle Ron. Probably 2016, possibly even 2015.
If the Honda deal works out I would like this very much. I don't think it will happen though as Mercedes are investing too much in Lewis. He's a proven commodity already and when his car is reliable he's the better Merc driver. I can't see them letting him get too sulky and walk out the door.

[Doc Austin]

two Giros...
and 5 Tours ;)

Thanks. I did not follow it that closely, but he was definitely dirty too. There my have never been a clean cyclist in the history of the sport.