Bernie troubles

[truefan72]

https://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-ecclestone-paid-banker-millions-shut-130018153--f1.html

so he finally admitted to bribery or extortion, or hush money, taker your pick

if the german got 8 1/2 years in jail for receiving it thenwhat will bErnie get?
I hope this will mean he is out of F1 and that the ridiculously high track fees will be a thing of the past
or that the money will be more evenly spread around and more transparency will take place, thus ensuring the survival of F1 and its teams rather than some secretive" eyes wide shut" style organization where everyone negotiates their personal agreements in an unnatural unbalanced and unfair manner.
I say good riddance. He may have elevated the stature of F1 but it has come at a steep price for the good of the sport, and its fans, least of which are the nasty influx of pay channels that pretty much is killing off the fan base. and virtually no social media or web based products that make too much sense for bernie and his cohorts to do

[MacFeegle]

Tinted rose glasses Mr Truefan.

Mr Bernie never go jail. $$Billions$$ buys many year legal discussion so make no sense to keep attack up.

Bernie will slip out of public lamp light but CVC and other parties move him out. Perhaps he convenient figure head today for politics but he go slowly out later this year and next.

[D-Type]

As long as enough people watch F1 on TV to attract advertising revenues, F1 will continue in its present form and the structure Bernie has creatted will survive.

[Mark]

As long as enough people watch F1 on TV to attract advertising revenues, F1 will continue in its present form and the structure Bernie has creatted will survive.

It will as long as Bernie doesn't take F1 down with him. His age has meant him moving on has been on the cards for a long while now anyway.

[truefan72]

Tinted rose glasses Mr Truefan.

Mr Bernie never go jail. $$Billions$$ buys many year legal discussion so make no sense to keep attack up.

Bernie will slip out of public lamp light but CVC and other parties move him out. Perhaps he convenient figure head today for politics but he go slowly out later this year and next.

I can barely understand what you are saying
it strikes me that you are a former poster with a new identity trying to sound "different"
nobody writes that way. and your grammar indicates you have a better understanding and command of the language than you are letting on
SMH

[Bagwan]

Don't lose your own topic , truefan .
You can pretty much figure it out , so if he wishes to post like Tarzan would write , then don't bother to react to the way he posts , but rather to what he posts .

If you don't get it , tell him to explain , rather than bog down your own discussion .


As to that discussion , sure , he admitted even suggesting the payment , but I took it , seemingly , exactly opposite to the way you did .

He said he had suggested it sarcastically , in discussions where it was suggested he had a lot to lose , if the tax man were involved .
As such , if we believe him , it follows logically that the impetus was not from Bernie to keep control , but rather that Gribowski knew that he could shake him down about the tax situation , and at the same time favour Bernie in the negotiations .

As Bernie did end up still in the chair , it seemingly becomes a question of which was the first reason this shake-down occurred .
It is a possibility that Gribowski only arrived at the idea when Bernie suggested it , but it doesn't seem likely , given that there has been testimony that says the word "taxes" was bandied about in the discussions .

Like I said , I took it the opposite way .
I guess that's why they have a judge .

[truefan72]

Don't lose your own topic , truefan .
You can pretty much figure it out , so if he wishes to post like Tarzan would write , then don't bother to react to the way he posts , but rather to what he posts .

If you don't get it , tell him to explain , rather than bog down your own discussion .\


I hear you, just lost my cool for a minute.



As to that discussion , sure , he admitted even suggesting the payment , but I took it , seemingly , exactly opposite to the way you did .

He said he had suggested it sarcastically , in discussions where it was suggested he had a lot to lose , if the tax man were involved .
As such , if we believe him , it follows logically that the impetus was not from Bernie to keep control , but rather that Gribowski knew that he could shake him down about the tax situation , and at the same time favour Bernie in the negotiations .

As Bernie did end up still in the chair , it seemingly becomes a question of which was the first reason this shake-down occurred .
It is a possibility that Gribowski only arrived at the idea when Bernie suggested it , but it doesn't seem likely , given that there has been testimony that says the word "taxes" was bandied about in the discussions .

Like I said , I took it the opposite way .
I guess that's why they have a judge .

Well Bernie is a very calculating man and i don't think he would do or say anything in jest when it comes down to money, then proceed to make the payment under the understanding that he maintains his control/power status. It comes down to this. one guy is in jail for one side of the deal and other guy is not, but now in court. And I'd say the both parties should be found equally as guilty under the law. If that means a release from jail and a hefty fine for Gribowski and a hefty fine and ban from F1 business for Bernie, then that is ok. But if Gribowski remains in jail, then what should happen to Bernie if found guilty?

[Duncan]

Well Bernie is a very calculating man and i don;t think he would do it say anything in just when it comes down to money, then proceed to make the payment under the understanding that he maintains his control/power status. It comes down to this. one guy is in jail for one side of the deal and other guy is not, but now in court. And I'd say the both parties should be found equally as guilty under the law. If that means a release from jail and a hefty fine for Gribowski and a hefty fine and ban from F1 business for Bernie, then that is ok. But if Gribowski remains in jail, then what should happen to Bernie if found guilty?

I'm not an expert or a lawyer, so I don't know, but based on what the article says it may not be that simple.

It sounds like much of the case hinges on the fact that Gribowski was working for a bank that was government owned, and therefore technically a "public official", which is necessary for the charges of bribery and corruption of a public official.

Bernie can argue that he was not aware of Gribowski's status as a public official, and if that is persuasive the bribery charge wont't stick (I think... I'm extrapolating from the article here). On the other hand, Gribowski couldn't have made the same argument; he must necessarily have known what his own status was, and he took a bribe to carry out some specific action in has capacity as a public official.

At least, that's what it sounds like the argument is...

[MacFeegle]

Ask pleas for different explain and I make effort but I no understand hostile. I insult you?

I good understand of language but you not understand. Confuse?

You think I famous member, that ok. I no mind. It make me happy :)

[AndyL]

If Bernie would rather pay someone $50m to shut up than pay accountants to explain his tax affairs to the Inland Revenue, then the Inland Revenue should really be looking at his tax affairs.

[Bagwan]

One of the German papers is saying that Bernie's team of scary lawyers has negotiated a deal to pay $100,000,000.00 to have the whole thing dropped , leaving him clean and ready to lead the parade again .
So , that's fifty to Gribowski , and a hundred to the courts , and some ghastly amount to the scary lawyers as well .


And , the scariest part of all is that he can afford it .

[henners88]

People shouldn't be able to buy themselves out of trouble and should do the time to fit the crime. If Bernie buys his way out of this one it'll demonstrate how corrupt the legal system is and in very public fashion. Bernie should end his days in a cell IMO.

[AndyL]

I guess it makes some sort of sense to get your bribery charges dropped by paying people off. Kind of like getting off a murder charge by killing the witnesses.

[journeyman racer]

We're in a stalemate right now. It's not unreasonable to expect that Bernie will die sooner, rather than later. The top level of motorsport has to move past him, it's long overdue. His presence (and a few others) is holding f1 back.

[Bagwan]

Can I point out here , that Bernie has not been proven guilty ?

It seems like all and sundry have him locked up already , with the key stashed in a very dark place .
And , that's without having heard any of the evidence first hand .

What if he's telling the truth ?
Consider Bernie , seeing Gribowski get sent down for accepting a bribe , knowing it wasn't true .
He would be expecting the same treatment .

He wouldn't give a damn about the extortionist , himself , having been burned for $50 million already .
The scary lawyers are bleeding him , with no real end in sight .

And , the guy has a big pile of money , so it's natural that he would reach for it .

If it were as cut and dried as all here are seemingly thinking , the judge would not likely agree to any deal here .
It seems to me he's picking a course that will have Bernie thinking twice about being involved in such affairs again , unless Bernie has decided now that he actually can't take it with him .

This was expensive , and embarrassing for the big guy .
And , they'll do good things with the fine money .


If this is officially announced in the next few days , it will mean that he was charged , but that the charges were dropped .
That means no admission of guilt , and no decision otherwise .



So , put the noose away .

[henners88]

If Bernie is willing to settle the case with that much money, he has something to hide. He wouldn't be giving away that much over nothing and he could afford to defend himself with the best lawyers in the world if he was innocent.

I hope he is guilty and I hope, along with a lot of people that his time dealing with F1 is numbered.

[Whyzars]

If Bernie is willing to settle the case with that much money, he has something to hide. He wouldn't be giving away that much over nothing and he could afford to defend himself with the best lawyers in the world if he was innocent.
I hope he is guilty and I hope, along with a lot of people that his time dealing with F1 is numbered.




I actually hope he is not guilty. I also hope that any settlement is more to do with his advanced age than the restrictive travel implications of a guilty verdict. :D


I don't know where F1 would be today if Bernie wasn't involved but I do know that F1 has continued to build on its history under his watch and that is a positive thing.

There's plenty to not like about F1 in 2014 but in saying that the "show" at times has been superb.


I'm happy to see Bernie growing old disgracefully and be surrounded by pit girls. If he has to write a $100million cheque to do that - well... [Damn, that's a lot of money. :eek: ]


If the F1 we have today it is to be Bernie's legacy then lets hope he isn't forced to watch it on TV.

He hasn't done too bad. Keeping it all together at times would've been like herding cats.

[BDunnell]

I do know that F1 has continued to build on its history under his watch and that is a positive thing.

What does that actually mean?

[steveaki13]

What does that actually mean?

Search me :p

Doesn't anything which ever direction it takes build on its history? :D Otherwise it doesn't exsist anymore.

Anyway, I always think the arguments about where F1 is with Bernie are slightly overplayed. I mean without him F1 would have continued in most probability and safety would still have been improved no matter who ran it.

It might not be where it is now, but that may not have been a bad thing.

[driveace]

But if Bernie is guilty and can pay a massive amount to the courts to escape a custodial sentence ,what message does that send out to the other poor guys ,who are not in half as much trouble,BUT have not got the readies that Bernie has to pay his way out of the shit ?

[Doc Austin]

Let's just hope Bernie gets off because F1 doesn't need another black eye, especially now when things are "supposedly" so bad already. I'm sure $100 is big money even for Bernie, but I'm sure he will pay it gladly. He's already coughed up $40 mil for the bribe/extortion (or whatever it was). Maybe Bernie will even be financially ruined, but we surely don't want to see someone that old (and probably frail) locked up for the rest of his life......not after as much as Bernie had done to pull F1out of the dark ages and into what we have today.

No matter what Bernie did, it's not like this is Nuremberg.

[BDunnell]

Anyway, I always think the arguments about where F1 is with Bernie are slightly overplayed. I mean without him F1 would have continued in most probability and safety would still have been improved no matter who ran it.

It might not be where it is now, but that may not have been a bad thing.

Some people would probably be richer, others poorer. Can't say I care.

What I do care a bit about is the fact that F1's image is being harmed by Ecclestone's continued involvement, whether he's guilty or not.

[Doc Austin]

What I do care a bit about is the fact that F1's image is being harmed by Ecclestone's continued involvement, whether he's guilty or not.

Bernie isn't going to live forever. He's really not looking so good, which is to be expected considering his age and the level of stress he is under. I hope he gets off and disappears, and goes off somewhere to live his last days peacefully. We had a shit sport until Bernie took over, and even if he got rich and really did screw everyone, we are still a lot better off than if he never came along.

[BDunnell]

We had a shit sport until Bernie took over

Really? There were aspects that Ecclestone (I refuse just to call him by his first name — after all, I don't know him) did improve, but it was by no means a 'shit sport' prior to his arrival. I'm afraid I have never subscribed to the supposed gratitude — which can often translate into exaggerated praise — that all F1 enthusiasts are meant to display towards him.

[Doc Austin]

There were aspects that Ecclestone (I refuse just to call him by his first name — after all, I don't know him) did improve, but it was by no means a 'shit sport' prior to his arrival.


There was zero TV coverage in the US, so to me, that was not very good. Fully 1/3 of the drivers who started the opening Grand Prix of 1971 were dead before the season was over, so I thought that kind of safety record was bad as well. The teams raced hand to mouth, so that was no good either.

It was basically a stupidly expensive, stupidly dangerous sport that got no where near the media coverage it deserved and needed to pull itself into the arena of world class sports. It took Bernie getting the TV package put together that got F1's real commercial success off the ground.


I'm afraid I have never subscribed to the supposed gratitude — which can often translate into exaggerated praise — that all F1 enthusiasts are meant to display towards him.

I dunno. Bernie screwed a lot of stuff up too, but for the most part he will certainly leave F1 a whole universe of better than the way he found it.

Gratitude is that Bernie offered each of the teams a buy in after he acquired the TV rights. It was not like he was a greedy bastard tying to steal it all for himself. He offered an equal piece to everyone and no one took him up on it. It's just their tough luck that he made it work.

No one wanted in, so it was all of Bernie's money and all of Bernie's risk and all of Bernie's business savvy that drug the sport out of what was essentially the dark ages.

I'm sure there were lots and lots of dirty deals and I am sure Bernie got his money back over and over and over. Thing is, no one else was wanting to stand up and even take a lame ass stab at making things better, but Bernie laid out his own money to make it work. I'm a bit grateful for that, and you probably should be too.

Of course, you can't give Bernie complete credit for the safety innovations. I think the FIA would have been perfectly happy killing five or six guys a year just as part of doing business, that is, until Jackie Stewart came along. He told everyone how it was too dangerous and then went out and stomped all their asses. Maybe Bernie jumped on a little later, but in the beginning, it was all Stewart.

Anyway, Bernie is old as shit and it's hard to imagine he feels really good, especially with this kind of strain on such an old heart. He might be a tough old bastard, but coughing up $100000000 is enough to give a young dude a heart attack. I can't see Bernie living forever, so if you don't like him, you probably won't have to worry about it too much longer.

Personally I would have rather seen him sell off all his interests, get on a 500 foot Yacht and sail off into the sunset.

I think if you didn't like Bernie, the new guys will probably be even less fun.

[airshifter]

Bernie isn't going to live forever. He's really not looking so good, which is to be expected considering his age and the level of stress he is under. I hope he gets off and disappears, and goes off somewhere to live his last days peacefully. We had a shit sport until Bernie took over, and even if he got rich and really did screw everyone, we are still a lot better off than if he never came along.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a shit sport, but Bernie did a great deal to level the playing field of the sport, and allow smaller teams a chance to compete. He also hired Sid Watkins, and took most of Sid's advice on safety issues, making the sport much safer than it had every been prior to them joining forces. Without Bernie, Sid, and several key drivers I personally think a lot more F1 drivers would have found an early grave.

As for the commercialization of the sport, he was the driving force IMO. A great many of us might not have ever seen more than a few races on TV if not for the promotion of the sport which made BE so wealthy. I can hardly fault him for introducing the sport to a much larger audience. And certainly the teams never suffered from getting all that TV revenue either.

Though he has had some ideas I don't care for, overall he had done a huge amount for the sport, and IMO probably more than any other single individual.



And in this current situation, I have no idea who is telling the truth. But I do think that if Bernie went to court to prove his innocence (if we were to assume that is the case) it would probably still do a lot more damage to the F1 image than if he took his current path. Being he's worth somewhere around 4-5 billion, 100 million dollars certainly isn't going to keep him from eating well by any means.

[henners88]

I don't think many F1 fans would deny that Bernie has done some good for F1.

He saw a gap in the market where the sport wasn't really being promoted and a product that could be sold to TV companies that increased the wealth of the sport.

But... Its been a long time since he had the interests of the fans and the people who make the sport what it is. His ventures have expanded and he became incredibly greedy at the expense of those who keep the sport popular. The sport had a rich history way before Bernie came along, and it was this history that helped promote it as a prestigious event, something he built on. He simply raised the profile by increasing its perceived value, a value I think is over hyped. Its only now as he slowly sells off the broadcasting rights to pay TV companies across the world for quick cash that we realise the sport has been popular due to accessibility. Once this accessibility is removed and we see fans forced into a kind of class system where you either pay or don't pay to watch, we realise the demand isn't quite as large as Bernie had hoped. Obviously he's putting a brave, almost arrogant facade because the cash is there and financially nobody has lost out yet, but this business model is treading water.

This is only the tip of the iceberg and when we review all the shady deals Bernie has done over the years, the businessmen and politicians he has bribed, not to mention the circuits he has squeezed, its not surprising it would catch up with him one day. I could see him and Rolf Harris getting on very well counting the painted breeze blocks in the walls of Her Majesty's Hotel. :D

[BDunnell]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a shit sport, but Bernie did a great deal to level the playing field of the sport, and allow smaller teams a chance to compete.

Really? He killed off the privateer entrants almost as soon as he started running things. And he doesn't care one jot for the existence today's smaller teams. After all, he has gone as far as to say he doesn't believe the recent additions have added anything to the sport.

[Whyzars]

...I do know that F1 has continued to build on its history under his watch and that is a positive thing.



What does that actually mean?


F1 has a rich history with Fangio, Brabham, Stewart and Lauda being worthily joined by Schumacher, Alonso, Hakkinen and Vettel. All are synonymous with F1.

Mr Ecclestone's ultimate legacy may very well be that the F1 drivers champion of today is, at worst, the equal of the champion of yesteryear.

F1, under Mr Ecclestone's watch, has managed to change as the times dictate whilst remaining the ultimate career destination for the best drivers on the planet.

That is what building on history means to me. :)

[henners88]

F1 has a rich history with Fangio, Brabham, Stewart and Lauda being worthily joined by Schumacher, Alonso, Hakkinen and Vettel. All are synonymous with F1.

Mr Ecclestone's ultimate legacy may very well be that the F1 drivers champion of today is, at worst, the equal of the champion of yesteryear.

F1, under Mr Ecclestone's watch, has managed to change as the times dictate whilst remaining the ultimate career destination for the best drivers on the planet.

That is what building on history means to me. :)
Bernie is not responsible for these great drivers progressing through their early careers and being picked by great teams who then give them the cars in order to produce great results. The teams have pushed for changes as much as anybody and the FIA (previously FISA) have also had their part in making the sport what it is today. Bernie has had an influence yes, but he also marketed the sport largely for his own gains and has priced many teams out.

The sport was always going to have a rich history. If anything I think the sport has been held back in recent years by not embracing modern trends, especially where fans are concerned. They are so wrapped up in making content unavailable and making sure the F1 website is as basic as possible that they have missed a trick. F1 is at least a decade behind other major sports and its been held back to maximise profit rather than appeal.

[dj_bytedisaster]

And justice was truly assasinated today. The State of Bavaria accepted a 100M bribe to end the trial against Ecclestone for bribery. Someone know a good asylum country for a disillusioned German :(

[henners88]

A bribery case settled with a bribe, you couldn't write it.

Everybody has a price, even the legal system in some countries! lol

[BDunnell]

F1 has a rich history with Fangio, Brabham, Stewart and Lauda being worthily joined by Schumacher, Alonso, Hakkinen and Vettel. All are synonymous with F1.

Mr Ecclestone's ultimate legacy may very well be that the F1 drivers champion of today is, at worst, the equal of the champion of yesteryear.

F1, under Mr Ecclestone's watch, has managed to change as the times dictate whilst remaining the ultimate career destination for the best drivers on the planet.

That is what building on history means to me. :)

Sorry, but I still think it's a completely meaningless phrase. None of what you describe is at all exceptional. All you're saying is, basically, that the sport has carried on — no more than that.

[BDunnell]

If anything I think the sport has been held back in recent years by not embracing modern trends, especially where fans are concerned. They are so wrapped up in making content unavailable and making sure the F1 website is as basic as possible that they have missed a trick. F1 is at least a decade behind other major sports and its been held back to maximise profit rather than appeal.

Exactly. This is one reason why having an 80-something year-old man in charge is so damaging.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Exactly. This is one reason why having an 80-something year-old man in charge is so damaging.

The age has nothing to do with it. Having a career criminal in charge - that's what damages the sport.

[BDunnell]

The age has nothing to do with it.

It does, surely. How in touch is he with newer generations of viewers? The answer seems to be 'not very', judging by how backward F1 has been in embracing the internet.

[dj_bytedisaster]

It does, surely. How in touch is he with newer generations of viewers? The answer seems to be 'not very', judging by how backward F1 has been in embracing the internet.

The only reason why he hasn't embraced faceborg and twatter is, because it cannot be monetized. That is the sole reason. If he could make money with the new media, he would have embraced the raw stuffing out of them.

[henners88]

It does, surely. How in touch is he with newer generations of viewers? The answer seems to be 'not very', judging by how backward F1 has been in embracing the internet.
Indeed. He said the sport didn't need viewers, and then he said it did once the viewing figures plummeted lol. The official F1 website is shockingly awful for content with the odd race edit and interview heavily edited. You would think in this day and age the sport would embrace social media, and have a regularly updated YouTube channel etc. They could even offer a subscription service through YouTube like other channels have done. When you consider they pump so much money into closing down video's that contravene copyright, they could accept the exposure and concentrate on delivering something themselves.

The whole of F1 is guilty of this too. The teams are starting to offer better content on websites and at least interact with fans on social media, but they are guilty of failing to embrace the merchandise market and opening themselves up to fans. You can't get near them at GP weekends unless you have a paddock pass and this exclusiveness has crept in, not just because of secrecy, but because its all part of keeping the perceived image of the sport as a playground for the rich and famous. I understand they can't have anybody wandering around the paddock, but as it stands 99% of fans haven't got a hope of getting close to the sport they love. I've been lucky enough to have been in the paddock on a couple of occasions and its so cut off from its public image. The drivers think popping over to the pit wall and giving the grandstand a wave is really giving something back and giving them that energy to keep them humble, yeah right lol.

The whole sport needs an overhaul and one of the biggest problems has been Bernie. He is old skool and out of touch. He's making money for his investors and bunging judges and everything is rosy, but I fear its contributing to the sports decline and being left behind by an era (public) they don't fully understand. :)

[mmbmz3]

This is a pure and simple case of "Affluenza"...

[BDunnell]

The only reason why he hasn't embraced faceborg and twatter is, because it cannot be monetized. That is the sole reason. If he could make money with the new media, he would have embraced the raw stuffing out of them.

Which demonstrates exactly how out of touch he is.

[Doc Austin]

Bernie is going to die. It's just not going to be on the timetable some of you want. Once he falls over or steps aside, we'll see how whomever is next does. I'm betting they don't do as well, but we'll have to wait and see.

[truefan72]

Which demonstrates exactly how out of touch he is.

exactly

facebook, twitter and other social media are conduits to the making money and not money making vehicles themselves
access to their huge numbers means you can direct folks to your website,. and in the case of F1 hopefully a superb website ( which is currently severely lacking)
Social media are like heavily traveled roads and advertising opportunities that should interest and then lead the masses to your site.

What Bernie and f1 are saying is; "I'll build this great resort and amusement park, but could care less if there are no roads, ships or trains going to it, and no airport either.
But there is a landing strip for private jets and a heliport for the rich and famous"
yeah, that business model is doomed to fail.

As Henners said, at the very least they can have their own youtube channel.
And i myself have said I don;t mind parting with a few dollars if I could get some great videos and a better product.
Relying on the individual broadcast partners is a fairly useless system.
I know sky has the red button and some enhanced features, but from what I understand that comes with a steep price and is available only to IK viewers.
Here in the states NBC sports are doing their sorry best, but it falls far short from a compelling product.
They need to offer a strong package for internet viewers. and I won;t mind paying for a good HD package for the weekend that includes all 3 FP sessions, Qualy and the race.
Now i wont do it for all the races, but enough to make it worth their while.
Or even if they have a decent archive section, where you can pay to see some older races would be helpful.

oh well

[steveaki13]

Amazed really.

I mean you are charged and rather than face a trial you can just pay a bribe to get off a bribe. I mean I assume Bernie couldn't do the same if he had been charged with murder?

Anyway, I wonder which direction F1 will take after Bernie passes on or retires (which doesn't look likely)

Could it return towards a more basic motorsport in terms of layout and format or will it continue down the show route.

[henners88]

I'm under no illusions that f1 will likely not change once Bernie is gone. It may be forced to change by a massive drop in interest, but as long as it's making money, it'll remain on the same road. Bernie took the mick out of the German justice system today and is laughing his head off this evening.

[Doc Austin]

I'm under no illusions that f1 will likely not change once Bernie is gone.

We'll probably be going from the consistency one man calling the shots every single time (however good or bad you might consider that to be) to having bankers and lawyers and investors all fighting amongst themselves to weasel themselves into more power and a bigger cut. You can bet everyone involved wants to be in Bernie's position and I would not be surprised if a few of these guys are found ODed in bed with a dead tranny or something.

The infighting and backstabbing is going top be utterly epic. It might even become more interesting than the racing.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Amazed really.

I mean you are charged and rather than face a trial you can just pay a bribe to get off a bribe. I mean I assume Bernie couldn't do the same if he had been charged with murder?

E's shysters abused §153a of the German code of criminal procedure. (With the help of E's legal team ?) Gribkowsky made a spectacular u-turn on his earlier testimony and suddenly more or less parroted Ecclestones version of the events and completely wrecked the chain of evidence presented by the prosecution. Two career criminals doing each other favours. As a German I'm quite appalled at what happened there, to the point that I'm seriously considering filing charges for perversion of justice against the Bavarian state court. Not that it would help much. Bavaria is ripe with filth and corruption.

[airshifter]

exactly

facebook, twitter and other social media are conduits to the making money and not money making vehicles themselves
access to their huge numbers means you can direct folks to your website,. and in the case of F1 hopefully a superb website ( which is currently severely lacking)
Social media are like heavily traveled roads and advertising opportunities that should interest and then lead the masses to your site.

What Bernie and f1 are saying is; "I'll build this great resort and amusement park, but could care less if there are no roads, ships or trains going to it, and no airport either.
But there is a landing strip for private jets and a heliport for the rich and famous"
yeah, that business model is doomed to fail.

As Henners said, at the very least they can have their own youtube channel.
And i myself have said I don;t mind parting with a few dollars if I could get some great videos and a better product.
Relying on the individual broadcast partners is a fairly useless system.
I know sky has the red button and some enhanced features, but from what I understand that comes with a steep price and is available only to IK viewers.
Here in the states NBC sports are doing their sorry best, but it falls far short from a compelling product.
They need to offer a strong package for internet viewers. and I won;t mind paying for a good HD package for the weekend that includes all 3 FP sessions, Qualy and the race.
Now i wont do it for all the races, but enough to make it worth their while.
Or even if they have a decent archive section, where you can pay to see some older races would be helpful.

oh well


This is without doubt an area where Formula 1 could improve. Not accepting the new media options is a bad move. Reliance on TV viewing only had promoters only pushing the channels, not the sport. Great points all around on the marketing approach that could be much better.

But in reality, how many people Bernie's age really accepted social media? I would have thought that with the tech on the cars he would have accepted and embraced it, but he hasn't.





Amazed really.

I mean you are charged and rather than face a trial you can just pay a bribe to get off a bribe. I mean I assume Bernie couldn't do the same if he had been charged with murder?

Anyway, I wonder which direction F1 will take after Bernie passes on or retires (which doesn't look likely)

Could it return towards a more basic motorsport in terms of layout and format or will it continue down the show route.


It's rare that a person can settle out of court if there is any strong case against them. Knowing BE has money, it would cost huge amounts to take his case to trial, at the risk of no recovery of money if he isn't proven guilty. Likewise Bernie knows being tied up in courts all costs him a great amount of money, time, frustrations, etc.

If you got charged with a traffic ticket for a minor offense would you waste countless time proving your innocence, or pay the small fine the way many people do? Being someone with a lot of money, Bernie's life is a lot easier just settling things out of court. He doesn't have much time left to spend his billions as it is, why waste some of that time?

[truefan72]

It's rare that a person can settle out of court if there is any strong case against them. Knowing BE has money, it would cost huge amounts to take his case to trial, at the risk of no recovery of money if he isn't proven guilty. Likewise Bernie knows being tied up in courts all costs him a great amount of money, time, frustrations, etc.

If you got charged with a traffic ticket for a minor offense would you waste countless time proving your innocence, or pay the small fine the way many people do? Being someone with a lot of money, Bernie's life is a lot easier just settling things out of court. He doesn't have much time left to spend his billions as it is, why waste some of that time?

It is sad really.
There are always 3 different judicial systems!
One system for regular folks and the vast majority of the population where the courts like to use the heavy hand of the law to hammer down folks needlessly
Another system for the rich, where they can pay their way out of convictions, or find themselves being shown extreme leniency, even in some of the most heinous crimes.
And the last one reserved for corporations, where they need not even bother about a conviction or even going to court.

So why should it be any different for bernie?
The money is inconsequential towards what he was charged off. and worse yet, his co-conspirator is currently still serving jail time for his part.
last i checked germany was not struggling for money and so who actually benefits from that $100mil?
Are the german courts telling me that paying a fine can mitigate a conviction or charges of clear bribery, even when the defendant admits as much?

[dj_bytedisaster]

last i checked germany was not struggling for money and so who actually benefits from that $100mil?
Are the german courts telling me that paying a fine can mitigate a conviction or charges of clear bribery, even when the defendant admits as much?

The state of Bavaria is never going to spurn 100mil. The whole state is ripe with filth and corruption. Almost 50% of the members of the Bavarian parliament have been flagged for cases of nepotism in recent years. This case was not Germany vs Ecclestone, but Bavaria vs Ecclestone. The free city of Hamburg for instance would have ridden the thing out till the bitter end. Corruption in Germany increases the further south you travel. The southern states of Bavaria and Baden-Würtemberg are cesspools of crime and corruption.
This 'settlement' came about, because somehow E could convince Gribkowsky to change his complete testimony. The whole trial based on Gribkovski's guilty plea in which he revealed E's involvment. Now he rescinded most of that and claimed the opposite. The prosecution, after Gribkovsky more or less adopted E's version of the events, had a case that was too strong for acquittal and too weak for a clear conviction, so the case would have become and endless affair, so the state offered the bribe and used §153a to make it 'legal'. The settlement means that E is neither acquitted, nor convicted. He's still the one considered to have comitted the crime, but the state of Bavaria offers to stop prosecuting for a donation.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Here's the full explanation how he weaseled his way out of it

F1 Fat Hippo: Sad Joke of German Courts. (http://thejudge13.com/2014/08/06/f1-fat-hippo-sad-joke-of-german-courts/)

[AndyL]

It's rare that a person can settle out of court if there is any strong case against them. Knowing BE has money, it would cost huge amounts to take his case to trial, at the risk of no recovery of money if he isn't proven guilty. Likewise Bernie knows being tied up in courts all costs him a great amount of money, time, frustrations, etc.

If you got charged with a traffic ticket for a minor offense would you waste countless time proving your innocence, or pay the small fine the way many people do? Being someone with a lot of money, Bernie's life is a lot easier just settling things out of court. He doesn't have much time left to spend his billions as it is, why waste some of that time?

Settling out of court is something you do if you're being sued. Bernie wasn't being sued, he was being tried for a criminal offence. A criminal offence for which the penalty would be years in prison, not a fine. I'm amazed to learn that a civilised country allows this kind of "settling out of court" for criminal trials.

[Mintexmemory]

Well 'realpolitik' is a German invented concept, after all ;)

[donKey jote]

Settling out of court is something you do if you're being sued. Bernie wasn't being sued, he was being tried for a criminal offence. A criminal offence for which the penalty would be years in prison, not a fine. I'm amazed to learn that a civilised country allows this kind of "settling out of court" for criminal trials.

It was settled in court by the court, not out of court, as the court found the case was way too sloppy to get anywhere soon. A case of 100 mill in hand versus millions in the bush...

[RS]

A lady on the radio summed it up nicely for me yesterday; Bernie paying his way out of a bribery conviction is akin to an arsonist getting off by burning the court down.

[truefan72]

Settling out of court is something you do if you're being sued. Bernie wasn't being sued, he was being tried for a criminal offence. A criminal offence for which the penalty would be years in prison, not a fine. I'm amazed to learn that a civilised country allows this kind of "settling out of court" for criminal trials.

could not have said it better myself.
excellent post

[truefan72]

It was settled in court by the court, not out of court, as the court found the case was way too sloppy to get anywhere soon. A case of 100 mill in hand versus millions in the bush...

wrong
if he was convicted, all the money in the world would not have mattered
this was not a civil suit, and the penalty for conviction was not a monetary fine
it was jail.
occasionally rich people do go to jail (usually club fed) when they are found guilty of criminal conduct, such as bribery, stealing money, severe tax evasion, and other nefarious crimes.
and for as corrupt and rigged as the US justice system is, at least they don't have the option to walk into court, pay a sum of money and be home in time for a fancy dinner and the private jet to st. tropez.

[donKey jote]

Not entirely right ;)
the court maybe thought the chances of an 84 year old being convicted on such flimsy evidence in his lifetime were pretty low.
ze law is ze law
ask Uli Hoeness if rich people can just walk into Bavarian courts and buy themselves out...

other than that, I obviously also think it's a disgrace. But I have seen much worse :)

[AndyL]

If the evidence was good enough to convict Gribkowsky for receiving the bribe, how is it now too flimsy to convict Ecclestone for paying it? Bernie himself has admitted he gave Gribkowsky the money, so that part of it is surely not in dispute.

[Bagwan]

As I understand it , Gribowski came to court originally trying to screw Bernie to save his own skin and got sentenced to eight and a half years .
When he came to Bernie's trial , he became forgetful , trying to save Bernie's skin , as that would have had his trial revisited .

But , alas , Bernie , with some of the main evidence forgotten , was still a man with the means to give the court a way to end the trial completely , and so he did .

Gribowski's ethics regarding this change of heart tells a lot about his character , and somewhat reinforces the claim that Bernie made him being an extortionist .

[donKey jote]

If the evidence was good enough to convict Gribkowsky for receiving the bribe, how is it now too flimsy to convict Ecclestone for paying it? Bernie himself has admitted he gave Gribkowsky the money, so that part of it is surely not in dispute.
In dispute was whether Bernie knew he was a public servant or not. Try proving that with two potential amnesiacs as your only source of proof.
And the possibility that gribkowsky would also have to be let off, if the case against Bernie went the wrong way, apparently also played a part in the willingness to settle...

[Mekola]

I've said that the sum paid by Bernie is the same sum paid by McLaren after being guilty for the 2007 Spygate.

[donKey jote]

The sum was calculated on the basis of his income, or whatever he said his income was....