F1 Commission - Grabbing at straws

[Nem14]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-adopt-standing-re-starts-in-2015/

They sound marooned. LOL!

[airshifter]

It sounds rather crazy to me. Restarts are bad enough, but if you had a standing restart you could really get screwed if on the wrong tires or something. Not to mention the first turn happens all over again.

With rolling restarts, the field is going to spread some as the lead drivers jump quicker, but at least there is some sense of fairness to it.

[Mark]

Another stupid idea. You do wonder how they manage to keep thinking them up!

The idea of the likes of a two vs three stop strategy is basically dead.

[BDunnell]

Absolutely ridiculous idea. That's all I have to say.

[steveaki13]

Absolutely ridiculous idea. That's all I have to say.

Thats all you need say.

Absolute joke.

Who are the majority watching F1 now a days? Must some geezers who know nowt about actual motorsport.

Jeez that sucks

[TheFamousEccles]

Who are the majority watching F1 now a days? Must some geezers who know nowt about actual motorsport.



Too right. Many fields of endeavour/employment etc are regulated by imbeciles who know nothing of the actual ins and outs of working at the coalface - F1 is diving in, boots and all, to join a sad tradition. You should try making an Accident and Emergency dept run with most of the directives that eminate from the detached beureaucracy - frustrating is not sharp enough a word.

It's as if they want it to suck...:rolleyes:

[rjbetty]

Just got in an seen this and am tired and not quite understanding. Are they saying standing starts will take place after a safety car. It seemed like they might be saying standing starts at random times in all races! If THAT happens, it will do a lot to put me off F1. Still not as bad as how the WRC is being wrecked (and has been since 2004). With the latest crackpot announcements for that, I think I'm finished with it now...

[inimitablestoo]

It does seem odd that we're effectively going back to the pre-Safety Car days, when a race would be stopped and fully restarted - only we're doing without the 30 minutes or however long it took to get everything done. Certainly it sounds like something that has been discussed among a group of people that doesn't include the drivers - I can't imagine they'd be in favour.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: the way to deal with restarts to prevent one driver bolting is to actually conduct them properly in the first place. As in the States, control of the race goes with the starter (flagman) rather than the leader of the race. Only when the starter is satisfied that the field is aligned closely enough does the restart get given. Under the present system an SC period is more likely to break up the field than keep things close.

[steveaki13]

Lets face the almost certain fact, that whoever decided this is loving the fact that if we have 2 SC in a race,, thats effectively 3 race starts and boy that means more crashes and carnage.

Hoorah for more artificial crashes :ohplease:

[Dave B]

Soooooo.....

Trundle around pointlessly behind the safety car, still burning fuel and putting the marshals in danger (because "slow" F1 cars are still doing motorway speeds). Then wait for a couple more laps while the back markers unlap themselves (why?). Then, after all that, everybody stops on the grid and restarts. Good lord what pointlessness. If you have to go down that route, why not just red flag the race, clear up the mess, then restart as usual?

It's more tinkering for the sake of "entertainment" from the people who brought you the genius of double points.

[Tazio]

I love this idea, but then again I'm drinking "Blonde" Newcastle Ale (a lot) at 4:30 am :beer:

[Koz]

Nothing is surprising after they decided double points for the last race.

Why aren't the teams objecting to all this crap?

[AndyL]

It does seem odd that we're effectively going back to the pre-Safety Car days, when a race would be stopped and fully restarted - only we're doing without the 30 minutes or however long it took to get everything done.

Well yes quite. It almost makes the safety car pointless. Why not just red-flag it and then restart. I'm sure that delay could be reduced: if the teams were told they would need to get the cars in and back out again in a short amount of time, then they would manage it. They already do so in qualifying after all.

[MacFeegle]

I see point of full restart if SC needed in number 1 lap but no other reason. If crash serious bad during race then stop race, bring pilots in and reform when all sorted otherwise just start with SC as now.

[edv]

Why not force cars to use the pit-lane speed limiters around accidents? Perhaps for the entire sector where the accident is, then let them race as normal for the other 2 sectors?
Pit lane speed limiters exist and work fine.
Sector timing loops exist and work fine.
Get rid of the SC altogether.
This should generate both the excitement and the controversy that F1 seems to crave.

[Mark]

Soooooo.....

Trundle around pointlessly behind the safety car, still burning fuel and putting the marshals in danger (because "slow" F1 cars are still doing motorway speeds). Then wait for a couple more laps while the back markers unlap themselves (why?). Then, after all that, everybody stops on the grid and restarts. Good lord what pointlessness. If you have to go down that route, why not just red flag the race, clear up the mess, then restart as usual?

It's more tinkering for the sake of "entertainment" from the people who brought you the genius of double points.



Exactly what I was thinking. Why have a safety car at all. At least if you red flag the race instead and go for restarts from the grid it removes a potential safety issue and will allow crashes to be cleared up more quickly.

[AndyL]

Graeme Lowdon was saying on Ted's Notebook that it's not automatic that there will be a grid restart, it will be at the discretion of the race director. Not really sure what would be the basis for making that choice.

[inimitablestoo]

Graeme Lowdon was saying on Ted's Notebook that it's not automatic that there will be a grid restart, it will be at the discretion of the race director. Not really sure what would be the basis for making that choice.

Perhaps during a Safety Car period us viewers will be able to text in and vote for which restart procedure we'd like :D Actually why am I even suggesting that... :eek:

[Doc Austin]

More grasping at straws. F1 is above such pitiful cries for attention, or at least it should be.

The fact they tested megaphones to generate fake noise and titanium skid blocks to generate fake sparks shows how far F1 will go in the name of "the show." The fake double points business also guarantees championship interest will go on longer, thus improving that "show" too. Manipulating competition by requiring multiple tire compounds another fake trick too.

The most fake thing F1 has ever done is the ridiculous DRS device, something that would make BT Barnum proud. Even Nascar has never done anything that fake.

It just goes on and on. It seems like every time you turn around that F1 has come up with another idea to improve the "show" at the expense of the competition being genuine.

Really, I'm more interested in racing and less interested in "show." Perhaps I am just being a purist, but for me the sport has always been the important.

So F1 is worried that people have lost interest? Gee, imagine that. Maybe the problem is that they are reaching out to the professional wrestling fans instead of motorsports enthusiasts.

[Doc Austin]

Exactly what I was thinking. Why have a safety car at all?

Exactly!!! Just let them keep racing. Make them pick their way through the wreckage and debris at racing speed. That would certainly improve the "show."

[Garry Walker]

Surprisingly Vettel talks sense this time - this is another idea to increase "entertainment", but the cost is that it alienates real F1 fans even further.

[schmenke]

Why not force cars to use the pit-lane speed limiters around accidents? Perhaps for the entire sector where the accident is, then let them race as normal for the other 2 sectors?
Pit lane speed limiters exist and work fine.
Sector timing loops exist and work fine.
Get rid of the SC altogether.
...

Yes, this was introduced at the recent Le Mans 24hr event and seemed to work well.

[steveaki13]

Yes, this was introduced at the recent Le Mans 24hr event and seemed to work well.

Yes. I thought that was a very good idea. It means on the rest of the circuit you can either race or go a SC speed and the sector involved can be dealt with quicker.

I really think they could implement thus in F1, and it would not see these crazy suggestions required. Although I dare say a crash fest restart is more the plan for these measures to improve the brain dead fans "show"

[Duncan]

Apparently it's confirmed that we're going to have standing restarts starting next year. WTF? I'll just repost here what I posted over on Facebook:


Breaking - F1(R) to Introduce "Mandatory Collisions" Rule Starting in 2016

PR Newswire (London) - In a move many have described as "controversial", the FIA and F1(R) management today announced a new "mandatory collisions" rule beginning from the 2016 F1(R) season. Under the new rule, all drivers will be required to participate in at least one car-to-car collision during each race. Details of the rule are still being finalized, but it seems likely that grid position penalties will be imposed on any driver not taking part in a collision during the preceding race. However, drivers will also be able to claim bonus F1(R) championship points if they are involved in a collision directly in front of the main grandstand.

Bernie Ecclestone, F1(R) rights holder, commented "We think this will make F1(R) races much more exciting for fans, especially those seated in premium grandstand seating". Not all of the teams were supportive. Mercedes non-executive chairman Niki Lauda was reached for comment, but his response was mostly in German, and upon translation was not considered suitable for publication. Others were more upbeat, however: Cyril Abiteboul, Caterham team principal, was especially excited, remarking: "This is great! Finally we'll be able to score some points!"

[AndyRAC]

Oh dear…. They really are deluded, aren’t they?
There was a discussion earlier this year on RadioLeMans about changes to scoring/championship system in Nascar – but it could apply to F1, WRC;

When series start messing around you know they have no confidence in it, and/or they have no idea how to run it.
Stop trying to attract the mythical casual fan – and concentrate on your hard-core fans; certainly don’t alienate them. Too late, they already have.

[Mark]

F1 shouldn't be about gimmicks, which is why they should ditch the silly tyre change rule too.

But F1 should be about technological innovation, which is why the hybrid drive trains, energy recovery, boost buttons etc are all a good thing.

[steveaki13]

When series start messing around you know they have no confidence in it, and/or they have no idea how to run it.
Stop trying to attract the mythical casual fan – and concentrate on your hard-core fans; certainly don’t alienate them. Too late, they already have.

I agree.

I think its clear to see that F1 which has generally been the most popular motorsport series over the years, is now fishing around to fix problems of its own making.

So much tweaking of F1 that started around 2003 has never stopped as they are constantly changing things to trying fix the last problem created.

All in all F1 takes step after step closer to being a WWE style sport, and loses a few more hardcore fans each time.

[Tazio]

I don't think this is the worst gimmick that F1 has comeup with lately, but it is definitely an unnecessary one. I also think that, allother things being equal (which they are not) it will favor the lightestdrivers even more than they already are, due to the laws of inertia. If they dothis they have to address the wet weight of the rigs issue IMHO.:idea:

[Bagwan]

Are they going to reset the grid , with lapped drivers passing and running around to the back ?

If so , this will take even longer .
Then , with the added danger of a standing start , it all may result in a series of restarts .
And , that will take longer still .

Maybe it's better for the sponsors to have all the billboards together so they get some equal time on screen , but it's gonna be hard to convince the average viewer that it's a racing series if they don't spend most of the time racing .


And something I don't think anyone has mentioned is the four engine trip we're now on .
Four , down from five .
This comes from cost saving , and so does trying to trim the budget by sealing the motors , essentially , at the start of the season .

In the day , beating the big manufacturers really meant something .
And , you had a real chance to come back , if you started on the back foot .

And , then they "fix" it with trumpets and sparky bottoms .

I used to watch just because I enjoyed the racing , but I must admit that added to that now is a bit of sadness and compulsion to keep watching as the series behaves like the tale of the snake , eating it's own tail .

[airshifter]

Worst idea in years IMO. Now we can potentially have restarts with all the drivers on different tires, worn at different levels, as well as potential greater differences in fuel loads. Sounds like a crash up derby to me.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Sounds like a crash up derby to me.

That's the point of the rule. That way you can have different winners, even when a team is dominant. Call it 'enforced minimum retirement rate'. Bet you my bottom dollar we'll see a SC for 'debris on track' in almost every race.

[Duncan]

Worst idea in years IMO. Now we can potentially have restarts with all the drivers on different tires, worn at different levels, as well as potential greater differences in fuel loads. Sounds like a crash up derby to me.

And, don't forget, every alternate driver starting on the marbles. And all of them on cold tyres. I really can't think of any reason to do this other than to cause crashes.

[journeyman racer]

As human beings, we've clearly reached our peak and are now beginning the downhill spiral. One of the reasons why the safety car was finally introduced to F1 (1993) was to avoid the procedural pain in the arse that was using standing starts for a re-start!

edit: Not one of the reasons. It was the reason!

[BDunnell]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: the way to deal with restarts to prevent one driver bolting is to actually conduct them properly in the first place. As in the States, control of the race goes with the starter (flagman) rather than the leader of the race. Only when the starter is satisfied that the field is aligned closely enough does the restart get given. Under the present system an SC period is more likely to break up the field than keep things close.

Couldn't agree more. An easy solution — which is presumably why it hasn't been implemented, for all regulations must now, it seems, be so absurdly complex and require lengthy explanation as to render them a minefield.

[BDunnell]

F1 shouldn't be about gimmicks, which is why they should ditch the silly tyre change rule too.

But F1 should be about technological innovation, which is why the hybrid drive trains, energy recovery, boost buttons etc are all a good thing.

I agree, but I think boost buttons are an entertainment-driven device rather than a technological one.

The other problem is the complexity of regulations nowadays. Everything, as per my post above, requires a huge amount of explanation. Same goes for the stupid WRC 'shoot-out' idea. This is not a good thing at all. If a rule needs explaining in any depth, it's generally misguided. Keep it simple!

[BDunnell]

When series start messing around you know they have no confidence in it, and/or they have no idea how to run it. Stop trying to attract the mythical casual fan – and concentrate on your hard-core fans; certainly don’t alienate them. Too late, they already have.

Nowadays there is no expectation that people will come to be interested in anything over a gradual period of time. The end result of this is change for change's sake, gimmicks, and, as you say, the alienation of the core audience. This one sees in all sorts of events, forms of media, etc. It's assumed, arrogantly, that the core audience will always be there; then they confound the supposedly intelligent people (often marketing people) who took that view by walking away. This we see in both F1 and the WRC.

In F1, it's not as if the casual fan has been attracted by the measures taken of late to boost the 'show'. TV audiences have reportedly been declining, haven't they? Given that, one might think that the obvious course to follow is to stop tinkering with the sport (except, perhaps, in the area of cost reduction) and let things take their course. Instead, the powers that-be seem to think that a different form of tinkering will be the sport's saviour. Why? This latest re-start gimmick won't work either, you can bet your life.

[MacFeegle]

The fans no like current F1, the Team no like current F1, the Pilots no like current F1.

Why is there current F1?

Jean Toad not man for job. May be more honest but made bigger mistakes over Max.

Change in air?

[Rollo]

Can we also have a Le Mans style start where drivers start on the other side of the road and then have to climb into their cars?

I also think that cars like the Brabham BT46B should come back, but with added upgrades like a 007-DB4 oil slick and a Mario Kart style Spiny Shell (but not the Green Shell).

[Tazio]

:stareup:....yeah and the Boss could all totally be like "go-go gadget" ":dork:

[journeyman racer]

The fans no like current F1, the Team no like current F1, the Pilots no like current F1.

Why is there current F1?

Jean Toad not man for job. May be more honest but made bigger mistakes over Max.

Change in air?

Those are simple, yet very probing questions. I reckon I could give a plausible answer. But I'm just you're everyday, anonymous, keyboard warrior knob. I also don't want to have to write an essay.

[Mia 01]

As long as the rules are the same for all teams and driver I don´t complain much. It will be interesting to see what the standing start after a safetycar period will bring us.

[schmenke]

...I've said it before, I'll say it again: the way to deal with restarts to prevent one driver bolting is to actually conduct them properly in the first place. As in the States, control of the race goes with the starter (flagman) rather than the leader of the race. Only when the starter is satisfied that the field is aligned closely enough does the restart get given. ...

That solution works only on oval, or similar, circuits where the entire field is in view all the time.

[inimitablestoo]

Maybe for the whole field, but they can usually get the first few cars together closely enough.

Incidentally, watching the Formula 4 highlights from Snetterton at the weekend, it seems a similar idea may be in place there. Rather than the Safety Car pulling away half a lap from the pits and letting the leader speed up/slow down/brake test the chasing pack, it had the leading cars right with it until the moment it pulled into pit lane. It made for a close restart with some overtaking.

[AndyL]

Incidentally, watching the Formula 4 highlights from Snetterton at the weekend, it seems a similar idea may be in place there. Rather than the Safety Car pulling away half a lap from the pits and letting the leader speed up/slow down/brake test the chasing pack, it had the leading cars right with it until the moment it pulled into pit lane. It made for a close restart with some overtaking.

Interesting, I wonder why the leader didn't drop back from the safety car in order to give himself a chance to get a jump on those behind. Maybe the youngsters in F4 are too naive :) Or could it be to do with a relatively smaller performance gap between an F4 car and the safety car - I guess there would be less risk of someone getting the jump on you if the train is already travelling at something approaching race speed, so less need to play games on the restart.

[Tazio]

Charlie Whiting has revealed that a discussion with McLaren resulted in the concept of standing restarts.
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/313478/whiting-mclaren-talk-led-to-standing-restarts/
There you go, brought to you by "The Dons" of the Anglo-Mafia. ;)

[steveaki13]

Jeeeeezussssssssssssssssssssss
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/picard-facepalm.jpg

[Tazio]

:stareup: Seriously, for Charlie to say he doesn't see a down side to this is majorly toolish. Guys ahead on more worn tires are standing a good chance of being jumped, and then stuck behind slower cars and losing valuable time to the leader(s), where as a rolling restart they would at least stand afair chance of maintaining their position and strategy (although safety cars always have some effect on strategy). No integrity in F1 any more, as “The Show” is massively more important than the competition. :shock: :pimp:

[Bagwan]

Easy , Tazzy bear , let's look and see if there's any bright side here for a minute .

On the surface of it , it would seems that it could take less time to bring them all around , stopping only those in correct order , and letting backmarkers by , who would catch up far faster to a stationary pack .
That's better , if it works that way , as it alleviates the need for endless safety car laps .

There will , of course be the tires at different stages of wear , racing towards the first corner , but at the initial start you have that anyway , with guys on different compounds , and often there isn't any carnage , as these guys are pros .
And , given they'll be stationary for a while anyway , waiting for the right order , they will all have cold tires , so will be knowing they need extra care , without a warm-up lap .

And , all you've got now is a system that can be controversial and reactive , with a leader able to either string them out , or even back them up with potential for acordian accidents farther back in the order .
If it's a standing start , the only real potential for stewarding screw-ups are things like not noticing a Ferrari not in the box at the start and having to penalize him half way through it as they did to Zo last race .

I don't know if I'm for it or not , but a few things about the idea kinda make sense , don't they ?

[donKey jote]

I know...

how about standing starts behind the SC...

best of both worlds :idea:

:dozey: :laugh:

[airshifter]

Easy , Tazzy bear , let's look and see if there's any bright side here for a minute .

On the surface of it , it would seems that it could take less time to bring them all around , stopping only those in correct order , and letting backmarkers by , who would catch up far faster to a stationary pack .
That's better , if it works that way , as it alleviates the need for endless safety car laps .

There will , of course be the tires at different stages of wear , racing towards the first corner , but at the initial start you have that anyway , with guys on different compounds , and often there isn't any carnage , as these guys are pros .
And , given they'll be stationary for a while anyway , waiting for the right order , they will all have cold tires , so will be knowing they need extra care , without a warm-up lap .

And , all you've got now is a system that can be controversial and reactive , with a leader able to either string them out , or even back them up with potential for acordian accidents farther back in the order .
If it's a standing start , the only real potential for stewarding screw-ups are things like not noticing a Ferrari not in the box at the start and having to penalize him half way through it as they did to Zo last race .

I don't know if I'm for it or not , but a few things about the idea kinda make sense , don't they ?

Baggy,

I did myself try to think of any positives, and there are a couple really. But in my mind the negatives simply outweigh the positives, mostly due to putting the pack even closer together than they were with the safety car restarts. For me safety is a really big conern, even when I weigh your good points. We might have drivers at the end of a long stint, competing with drivers who just changed tires and are fresh. Starts are wild enough as it is, and beyond the safety factor I think these restarts would just further level the playing field and create too much of an unknown at restarts.

I'm hoping it works better than I am predicting. First turn madness with that many levels of tire wear just seems very risky to me.

[Bagwan]

Oh hell , Shifter , add a damp track and you've really got some tip-toeing in the first corner , but it's the same for all .
It's completely unpredictable as to when a restart of any kind happens , and those tire conditions will roll the dice for anyone in the first corner , regardless of the standing start .

It's only the short time that everyone has to get to racing speeds that is the difference , and the fact they could be closer together when they reach the corner .
Of course , the rule that says you can't win it , but you can lose it at that first corner still applies , and it could result in a few multiple restarts , but I'd frankly rather see that than a guy running off into the distance just by a bit of a brake-check , and a throttle mash .

Letting the lead driver control the pace and restart is effectively what we've got now , and easily criticized opinions of stewards can result if those words "brake-check" are used .
Whereas , if it's standing , the restart is clear , and can't be questioned .
You either jumped it , or you didn't .

It could cause a few crashes , but I guess I trust these guys to be prudent , and still good drivers at that first corner .
It isn't as black and white as Charlie seems to think , but I don't think it's as bad as some seem to believe .

[Tazio]

Easy , Tazzy bear , let's look and see if there's any bright side here for a minute .
I do think it can produce some interesting moments of "spectacle", but more importantly I want to thank you for giving me the "Tazzy Bear" nom de guerre, because you know how much I dig nick names and I approve, thanks dawg! :dog: :)

[airshifter]

Oh hell , Shifter , add a damp track and you've really got some tip-toeing in the first corner , but it's the same for all .
It's completely unpredictable as to when a restart of any kind happens , and those tire conditions will roll the dice for anyone in the first corner , regardless of the standing start .

It's only the short time that everyone has to get to racing speeds that is the difference , and the fact they could be closer together when they reach the corner .
Of course , the rule that says you can't win it , but you can lose it at that first corner still applies , and it could result in a few multiple restarts , but I'd frankly rather see that than a guy running off into the distance just by a bit of a brake-check , and a throttle mash .

Letting the lead driver control the pace and restart is effectively what we've got now , and easily criticized opinions of stewards can result if those words "brake-check" are used .
Whereas , if it's standing , the restart is clear , and can't be questioned .
You either jumped it , or you didn't .

It could cause a few crashes , but I guess I trust these guys to be prudent , and still good drivers at that first corner .
It isn't as black and white as Charlie seems to think , but I don't think it's as bad as some seem to believe .


I'll have to give it a chance. Really I guess we all will.

As for the current restarts, F1 could really take some lessons on that and other things from IRL. If the field is too loose, the starter doesn't wave the flag and they take another lap. Just this weekend they did just that at the Iowa race, and when the flag didn't wave they sent radio instructions as to the leaders pace speed. It works, just like it works when they control cutting chicanes and gaining advantage. If they do gain advantage, pass or not, they have to give it back.

It may not turn out as bad as I think it will. I sure hope not. With that many cubic dollars on the line and all the changes in the interest of cost savings, it just seems to me they are taking one of the factors most likely to cause contact and introducing it potentially more than once in a race. With all the off line rubber later in races it could be quite a dive for the racing line.

[Bagwan]

I do think it can produce some interesting moments of "spectacle", but more importantly I want to thank you for giving me the "Tazzy Bear" nom de guerre, because you know how much I dig nick names and I approve, thanks dawg! :dog: :)

As long as you know I'm not calling you a Muppet , my man .
Fauzy was always my favourite .

By the way , I should mention that the winning bass in my town's derby on the Saugeen was eighteen and three quarter inches long , out of a river that was chocolate milk from the recent rains .
And , you missed it .

Just sayin' .

[Tazio]

As long as you know I'm not calling you a Muppet , my man .
Fauzy was always my favourite .

By the way , I should mention that the winning bass in my town's derby on the Saugeen was eighteen and three quarter inches long , out of a river that was chocolate milk from the recent rains .
And , you missed it .

Just sayin' .

:angryfire:

[MacFeegle]

You Mr Ladyies love talk about how big fish is. Think you talk small fry :p

[Bagwan]

You Mr Ladyies love talk about how big fish is. Think you talk small fry :p

We're talkin' smallmouth , Mr. Mac , not small fry .
Aint any fryin' at all in a "catch and release" derby , ungawa .

[Tazio]

You Mr Ladyies love talk about how big fish is. Think you talk small fry :p


You ain't going to get me posting pictures of my Bass fishing exploits. I suggest you go kiss the MacBaby :p: ;)

[MacFeegle]

:laugh:

MacBaby. Me like :D

[Tazio]

Oh hell , Shifter , add a damp track and you've really got some tip-toeing in the first corner , but it's the same for all .
It's completely unpredictable as to when a restart of any kind happens , and those tire conditions will roll the dice for anyone in the first corner , regardless of the standing start .

It's only the short time that everyone has to get to racing speeds that is the difference , and the fact they could be closer together when they reach the corner .
Of course , the rule that says you can't win it , but you can lose it at that first corner still applies , and it could result in a few multiple restarts , but I'd frankly rather see that than a guy running off into the distance just by a bit of a brake-check , and a throttle mash .

Letting the lead driver control the pace and restart is effectively what we've got now , and easily criticized opinions of stewards can result if those words "brake-check" are used .
Whereas , if it's standing , the restart is clear , and can't be questioned .
You either jumped it , or you didn't .

It could cause a few crashes , but I guess I trust these guys to be prudent , and still good drivers at that first corner .
It isn't as black and white as Charlie seems to think , but I don't think it's as bad as some seem to believe .
Sorry Baggie! :angel:

The biggest news on Tuesday is that one rule already printed in black and white in the 2015 regulations looks set to be axed. "There will be no standing starts after safety cars," announced the diminutive Briton. "What we saw in Budapest was good
http://www.f1today.net/en/news/ecclestone-intends-to-scrap-standing-restarts-for-2015


Of course he means good enough to keep lining his pockets with cash ;)

[steveaki13]

I hate the standing start idea, but it makes me laugh that they see a good race and decide we don't need standing starts.

If the next couple of races are dull as dish water, then suddenly they will be saying, Standing starts are whats needed to improve the show.

All in all it sums up F1, tinker the rules after a bad race and change your mind again after a good one.

Jeez
http://cdn.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/facepalm-bear-2.png

[BDunnell]

I hate the standing start idea, but it makes me laugh that they see a good race and decide we don't need standing starts.

If the next couple of races are dull as dish water, then suddenly they will be saying, Standing starts are whats needed to improve the show.

All in all it sums up F1, tinker the rules after a bad race and change your mind again after a good one.

Those running F1 are in an absolute state of confusion and chaos. They have no idea how best to arrest the decline in viewing figures, hence this flip-flopping from one idea to the next, week after week. Their time in charge ought, by rights, to be done. That it's time for a new broom to sweep through F1 is abundantly clear. Whether there is a suitable candidate to head up the sport is another matter.

[henners88]

Those running F1 are in an absolute state of confusion and chaos. They have no idea how best to arrest the decline in viewing figures, hence this flip-flopping from one idea to the next, week after week. Their time in charge ought, by rights, to be done. That it's time for a new broom to sweep through F1 is abundantly clear. Whether there is a suitable candidate to head up the sport is another matter.
One thing is clear to me. They will mess about with rule changes and regulations in an attempt to boost viewing figures way before they will entertain the idea of putting the sport within reach of the fans on free to air television again.

Money comes first and Bernie would never admit an approach with a serious flaw was ever misjudged.

[inimitablestoo]

This was discussed recently on Radio Le Mans' Midweek Motorsport and they came up with a conclusion I'm agreeing with ever more: those in charge of F1 don't seem to have faith in the product. You wouldn't chop and change to this degree otherwise.

In recent years those in charge of both the sport and the individual teams have made much of their willingness to listen. Trouble is, they seem to be listening to everyone, not just the people who will be prepared to watch week in, week out regardless. The casual viewer will be just that and, however good the racing, they won't stick with it forever; change the sport too far beyond recognition and neither will even the hardcore fanbase.

[Tazio]

It really is hysterical in a disgustingly sick sort of way. I don't follow any other sport that cares so little about its legacy. F1 doesn't respect itself, and has become a reality based series :dozey:

[BDunnell]

This was discussed recently on Radio Le Mans' Midweek Motorsport and they came up with a conclusion I'm agreeing with ever more: those in charge of F1 don't seem to have faith in the product. You wouldn't chop and change to this degree otherwise.

Yes, and not just that — I truly don't think they know what to do. I've seen this myself — out-of-touch bosses trying to shore up a failing product, but merely tinkering round the edges. The consumer can't help but notice, and continues to take its business elsewhere. This is what F1 seems like now. Ecclestone et al have mismanaged completely a number of vital aspects of F1 — merchandising and its online presence, to name but two. In taking it further and further away from its core audience, F1's bosses are surely putting the sport's entire future at risk. Ever-rising fees levied to organisers in countries currently able to pay won't make up the deficit in viewers for ever.

[Nem14]

I am afraid Motorsport, or at least car racing, has had it's day in the Sun.
Gen Y lacks the attraction to cars Gen X has/had.

Niki Lauda got it right by stating Gen Y wants to stay on the beach using their smartphones, but I doubt Gen Y is watching F1 races on their phones, or any other type of device.

In the foreseeable future cars available for sale to the masses will be autonomous, and there will be no 'drivers'.

Add to that the utter lack of charisma today's F1 drivers have. So lacking that the none of the drivers make a solid connecting with either Gen Y or Gen X.

I think the people starting FE are going to shortly be very disappointed.
I've been to electric car races before. It was kind of interesting being able to hear the tires work in the corners, but otherwise, on a lap to lap basis it was about as exciting as watching grass grow.

[journeyman racer]

People can sense desperation, or an attempt to "get them". People are not attracted to that. Here in Australia, V8Supercars have done everything under the sun to attract "new markets". The popularity of the series (which wasn't that high, relative to other competitions here, to begin with) has faded. When you don't know your core audience, there's no way you're getting a bigger one.


I am afraid Motorsport, or at least car racing, has had it's day in the Sun.
Gen Y lacks the attraction to cars Gen X has/had.
A rather pessimistic outlook.


Niki Lauda got it right by stating Gen Y wants to stay on the beach using their smartphones, but I doubt Gen Y is watching F1 races on their phones, or any other type of device.
Niki Lauda would only conclude that, because he doesn't know the answer.

[Tazio]

People can sense desperation, or an attempt to "get them". People are not attracted to that. Here in Australia, V8Supercars have done everything under the sun to attract "new markets". The popularity of the series (which wasn't that high, relative to other competitions here, to begin with) has faded. When you don't know your core audience, there's no way you're getting a bigger one.

Niki Lauda got it right by stating Gen Y wants to stay on the beach using their smartphones, but I doubt Gen Y is watching F1 races on their phones, or any other type of device.


Niki Lauda would only conclude that, because he doesn't know the answer. Am I correct in understanding that Niki through his omission, that F1 already has, or will never get any more of my generation (baby boomer), because if he is he is probably correct. I do my best in my day to day life not to take a reactionary perspective on current events, as things in the past were not nearly as much better as we romanticize they were. It is still very silly to me that F1 has such knee-jerk reactions to trends in viewership. It is really just a function of greediness on behalf of those who stand to profit from the marketability of the product. Because of this I pretty much just role with the punches, and if I get too disgusted I will no longer feel like watching.

It really is hysterical in a disgustingly sick sort of way. I don't follow any other sport that cares so little about its legacy. F1 doesn't respect itself, and has become a reality based series This freakin' guy has some serious denial issues as I found myself massively "jonesing" for a Grand Prix this weekend, and it has only been one week since the last. :confused:
I think that is what a great race like we saw last week will do. Let's face it, some races will be more entertaining than others and I can live with that.