Donkey of the Race - Monaco

[steveaki13]

Who gets your vote?

[donKey jote]

Chilton, Gutierrez, his hungry moaniness (not for the race, but for the moaniness)

[MacFeegle]

Lot of Ass. Where start

[janneppi]

Biggest was the Toro Rosso(?) pit crew, also Räikkönen was bit clumsy in the end

[donKey jote]

Lot of Ass. Where start
from behind ? :sailor: :andrea:

[Koz]

All the teams except Ferrar and RBR for being lapped!! AGAIN !!

STR for the stupid release. Sutil, Gutierrez, Kimi.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Lewis Hamilton. Abrasive and arrogant attitude towards the team - constantly! And 'I have something in my eye' - You are wearing a full face helmet, Einstein!! *facepalm*

Accuses the team mate of cheating when he's beaten and has absolutely no grace in defeat. Somehow his team mate managed the last four races with a hell of a lot more dignity.

dishonourable mention to Raikkönen. Someone should breathalize the man.

[donKey jote]

You are wearing a full face helmet, Einstein!! *facepalm*

maybe he has dandruff ? :sailor: :andrea:

[veeten]

Lewis Hamilton. Abrasive and arrogant attitude towards the team - constantly! And 'I have something in my eye' - You are wearing a full face helmet, Einstein!! *facepalm*

forgot about those thingys on the helmet called visors, did we? When one pops them open for air, everything else has a chance for entering, including dust.

[driveace]

Vettel the car BREAKER ,yet again !!!!
Why does Daniel finish races in the identical RB car ? Cos he is not an animal with the car !

[driveace]

forgot about those thingys on the helmet called visors, did we? When one pops them open for air, everything else has a chance for entering, including dust.

He thought they had forgotten to put their Full Face helmets on with their visors down
Vettel didnt get much use from his though !

[steveaki13]

Donkeys of the Race:

Max Chilton - For some how crashing into a car under SC. Very strange incident.

Esteban Gutierrez - A strange mistake to put your car in the wrong place on the grid and then clipping the Rascasse barrier and spinning out

Toro Rosso - That pit lane release was rubbish. Enough said

[MacFeegle]

Why pastor not in today? On holiday or give another pilot chance :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

Vettel the car BREAKER ,yet again !!!!
Why does Daniel finish races in the identical RB car ? Cos he is not an animal with the car !

Guess that retroactively applies to webber then, too?

[steveaki13]

Why pastor not in today? On holiday or give another pilot chance :D

He raced 0km so I guess even Pastor cant destroy peoples races when he didnt even start. :p

[steveaki13]

Its weird whats happened at Red Bull. Webber just had all the bad luck at Red Bull while Seb was easily winning races and now Ricciardo is getting the easy ride and Seb cant finish many races. Strange.

Then again he is now a Red Bull number 2 driver. :D

[Doc Austin]

Is pastor's donkey streak over? I'm sure he can start a new one in Canada.

[Daniel]

Vettel the car BREAKER ,yet again !!!!
Why does Daniel finish races in the identical RB car ? Cos he is not an animal with the car !

Yeah, that's why Seb has struggled to win titles because of cars that are always broken......

[MacFeegle]

Yeah, that's why Seb has struggled to win titles because of cars that are always broken......

I think he being sarcastic :laugh:

[rjbetty]

Accuses the team mate of cheating when he's beaten and has absolutely no grace in defeat. Somehow his team mate managed the last four races with a hell of a lot more dignity.

Hey, no he didn't. He just has his doubts - and quite rightly too!

But Nico's weird and aggressive behaviour in Bahrain before Hamilton shoved him off wasn't dignified dude. I was really surprised when Isaw that. I think I understand what Nico was trying to do as it may have gotten into my head if it was me.

Lewis feels he was maybe stuffed over and cheated out of a more likely than not pole. tbh I'd find it hard not to be a little unhappy as it still looks just a little too convenient. Oh well, benefit of the doubt but Nico can't pull that one again!

I can't remember Nico accepting any one of his defeats in 2014 graciously. This includes Australia where he celebrated like he was the best driver ever - the way Vettel does!


p.s. My donkey is Toro Rosso, having qualified 7th and 9th could maybe have got 5th and 6th today.

[Zico]

Lewis Hamilton. Abrasive and arrogant attitude towards the team - constantly! And 'I have something in my eye' - You are wearing a full face helmet, Einstein!! *facepalm*

Accuses the team mate of cheating when he's beaten and has absolutely no grace in defeat. Somehow his team mate managed the last four races with a hell of a lot more dignity.

dishonourable mention to Raikkönen. Someone should breathalize the man.

Wow, I just see it so differently. No wonder Lewis was raging but maybe I missed it as I don't recall him accusing his team mate of cheating, do you have a link?... and have you never had an eyelash dislodge itself and get stuck in your eye?

When I saw Nico 'lose control' and bring Q3 to a halt in the dying moments yesterday I got complete Deja Vu back to when Michael tried to pull a similar stunt and was sooo dissapointed in Nico that he'd also stoop to that level, I had thought more and better of him. Watching him gloat, all smiles in the press conference afterwards only served to further my suspicions that his 'mistake' was a deliberate one.

Up until yesterday I hadn't minded who would win the WDC but I hope Lewis does it now.

[MacFeegle]

Wow, I just see it so differently. No wonder Lewis was raging but maybe I missed it as I don't recall him accusing his team mate of cheating, do you have a link?... and have you never had an eyelash dislodge itself and get stuck in your eye?

When I saw Nico 'lose control' and bring Q3 to a halt in the dying moments yesterday I got complete Deja Vu back to when Michael tried to pull a similar stunt and was sooo dissapointed in Nico that he'd also stoop to that level, I had thought more and better of him. Watching him gloat, all smiles in the press conference afterwards only served to further my suspicions that his 'mistake' was a deliberate one.

Up until yesterday I hadn't minded who would win the WDC but I hope Lewis does it now.

We all could be wrong but Nico I think not bad man. Not schumacher.

He very ignoble to celebrate when he get pole by default but in his word he say he thought pole gone because he f up. I let time tell on this one but if he f up again then it look too suspicios.

Better think he make mistake this time but just bad sportman.

[driveace]

Wow, I just see it so differently. No wonder Lewis was raging but maybe I missed it as I don't recall him accusing his team mate of cheating, do you have a link?... and have you never had an eyelash dislodge itself and get stuck in your eye?

When I saw Nico 'lose control' and bring Q3 to a halt in the dying moments yesterday I got complete Deja Vu back to when Michael tried to pull a similar stunt and was sooo dissapointed in Nico that he'd also stoop to that level, I had thought more and better of him. Watching him gloat, all smiles in the press conference afterwards only served to further my suspicions that his 'mistake' was a deliberate one.

Up until yesterday I hadn't minded who would win the WDC but I hope Lewis does it now.

I agree entirely with your views ,it was cunning,deceitful,and dishonest what Nico did and the gloating was the bit that stuck in my throat ! dj is NOT a Lewis fan for one second of ANY day but a staunch Seb Vettel supporter ,look at his posts ,then you get some idea of his dislike of what he saw in Lewis

[zako85]

I nominate Adrian Sutil. Methinks it will be his last year in F1. The junior drivers are already knocking.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I agree entirely with your views ,it was cunning,deceitful,and dishonest what Nico did and the gloating was the bit that stuck in my throat ! dj is NOT a Lewis fan for one second of ANY day but a staunch Seb Vettel supporter ,look at his posts ,then you get some idea of his dislike of what he saw in Lewis

Well don't you think it is strange that Vettel gets blasted if he is whiny on the team radio (which I don't like, too btw.) But when Lewis throws a tantrum that even Joan Collins would be ashamed of nobody bats an eye? And I'm not buying the 'I had something in my eye' bullshit story. It's what it is - the lamest excuse ever.
You could tell he didn't have the confidence to beat Nico on the track when he went Noami Campbell on his own team for not giving him the undercut through pitstops, even though he knows very well that at Mercedes the driverm who is in front on the track gets first call for the pitstops. Lauda and Wolff have acknowledged that several time. I'd say he merely has a very strange sense of entitlement.
Also he lacks the least bit of grace in defeat. He's beaten Rosberg four times in a row and never did Rosberg behave as classless as Hamilton in the presser. In fact I hardly remember any driver putting on a show like that. There's not much to like about the L. Hamilton of today.

[Rollo]

Lewis Hamilton. Abrasive and arrogant attitude towards the team - constantly! And 'I have something in my eye' - You are wearing a full face helmet, Einstein!! *facepalm*

Accuses the team mate of cheating when he's beaten and has absolutely no grace in defeat. Somehow his team mate managed the last four races with a hell of a lot more dignity.


Hear hear :up:

Lewis needs to learn a lesson in either grace or humility or else he's going to find himself elbowed out of that Silver Arrow. Someone like Bianchi or Kobayashi could very easily fill that spot if Hamilton decides to start throwing the toys out of the pram.

If the team is favouring one driver over another, then surely the solution would be to drive harder and better? I have memories of a certain Frenchman who was a whinger... but drove better.

[N. Jones]

Guitierrez for blowing points for Sauber and me! grr

[Tazio]

I'm still picking Ericsson for ruining Fast Felipe's weekend, and valuable FGP points for me! :angryfire :stareup:

[rjbetty]

I also nominate Rosberg for his criss-cross mistake in qualifying. Willing to let him off this one time, through slightly gritted teeth, but I don't see much difference between his mistake and Schumacher's in 2006.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I also nominate Rosberg for his criss-cross mistake in qualifying. Willing to let him off this one time, through slightly gritted teeth, but I don't see much difference between his mistake and Schumacher's in 2006.

You've explained yourself what the difference is. Rosberg's lunge into the escape road was a mistake, Schumacher parking it in Rascasse was a premediated attempt at cheating. Now, I'm sure if Rosberg had really tried hard, he could have made the corner at the risk of bumping into the armco, but that a) would have had the same result (yellow flags) and b) would have potentially damaged a well configured car that he seemed to be quite happy with.

Someone botching his last attempt and causing a yellow has happened countless times before. Even a certain A. Senna managed to do that at times.

[rjbetty]

You've explained yourself what the difference is. Rosberg's lunge into the escape road was a mistake, Schumacher parking it in Rascasse was a premediated attempt at cheating.

But how do we know Schumacher's wasn't a mistake?

[N4D13]

But how do we know Schumacher's wasn't a mistake?

On the other side of the fence, the likes of Flavio Briatore, McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh, and Jacques Villeneuve all expressed their dismay at how suspiciously clumsy the manoeuvre was from an all-time great and a seven-time champion, and they too had a point. Michael did seem to brake excessively. Then, as later described by race steward Joaquin Verdegay, "he performed some absolutely unnecessary and pathetic counter-steering, and that lasted five metres, until there was no more chances of going through the turn normally. He lost control of the car while travelling at 16km/h! That's something completely unjustifiable."

http://www.f1rejects.com/centrale/2006/monaco/index.html

[Mia 01]

Max Chilton. Ended Kimis way to a podium.

[anfield5]

After watching the race highlights last night and seeing Hamilton's face and his refusal to acknowledge Nico. He gets my vote..... petulant little twit!

[yodasarmpit]

Hamilton for his attitude, I really thought he had began to grow up too.

[Whyzars]

...
He very ignoble to celebrate when he get pole by default but in his word he say he thought pole gone because he f up. I let time tell on this one but if he f up again then it look too suspicios. ...


Ignoble?

[RS]

Hamilton for his attitude, I really thought he had began to grow up too.

Sadly I have to agree.

I wonder if Lewis has been spoilt by having a race-winning car from the very start of his career. It meant he never really had to struggle as people like Alonso, Raikkonen or even Vettel had to to some extent.

[henners88]

Strange to see votes for a driver who finished second after a pretty good drive. Internet tit for tat eh?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[MacFeegle]

Ignoble?

Sorry word wrong? I mean not honour man.

[Bagwan]

I googled it for you . I would suggest definition number one would be the intended one .

ig·no·ble
igˈnōbəl/Submit
adjective
1.
not honorable in character or purpose.
"ignoble feelings of intense jealousy"
synonyms: dishonorable, unworthy, base, shameful, contemptible, despicable, dastardly, vile, degenerate, shabby, sordid, mean; More
2.
of humble origin or social status.
"ignoble savages"

[driveace]

How do you come to the conclusion that Lewis has had a race winning car since the start of his career ?
IF he had for the last four years do you honestly believe that Vettel would have taken the championship ?
Lewis has peddled which ever car he has been given very well every year,there were times when he did,nt seem as if he could be bothered when things did,nt always go his way ,but I feel that he is one of the fastest 3 guys out there,and in a good car not many would beat him .
Judgment on his ability compared to Rosbergs will be witnessed later in the year

[Zico]

How do you come to the conclusion that Lewis has had a race winning car since the start of his career ?
IF he had for the last four years do you honestly believe that Vettel would have taken the championship ?
Lewis has peddled which ever car he has been given very well every year,there were times when he did,nt seem as if he could be bothered when things did,nt always go his way ,but I feel that he is one of the fastest 3 guys out there,and in a good car not many would beat him .
Judgment on his ability compared to Rosbergs will be witnessed later in the year


Agreed, in my eyes only Alonso has produced better results and shone brighter in less competative cars over the years.

[RS]

How do you come to the conclusion that Lewis has had a race winning car since the start of his career ?
IF he had for the last four years do you honestly believe that Vettel would have taken the championship ?
Lewis has peddled which ever car he has been given very well every year,there were times when he did,nt seem as if he could be bothered when things did,nt always go his way ,but I feel that he is one of the fastest 3 guys out there,and in a good car not many would beat him .
Judgment on his ability compared to Rosbergs will be witnessed later in the year

I mean at the start of his F1 career he had a race winning car (McLaren), whereas Alonso started out in a Minardi, Kimi in a Sauber, Vettel in a BMW and then Torro Rosso, so I wondered whether this was why when things don't go his way Lewis gets in a strop.

I'm not talking about his speed, I agree he is one of the three fastest if not the fastest, I'm talking about his attitude problems/mental strength.

[dj_bytedisaster]

How do you come to the conclusion that Lewis has had a race winning car since the start of his career ?

The 2007 Macca WAS a race winning car. Who else did get to make his F1 debut in a top team? The only other one I can remember is Jacques Villeneuve and he came with a CART title and an Indy 500 win as a reference. Lewis had it the easiest way. He never needed to drive midfield cars, never in his whole junior career, which is why his 'I'm hungrier than thou' attack on Rosberg backfired so badly. Hamilton was signed up by McLaren at the age of 13 (like Vettel was by Red Bull btw.) From then on he had the best possible equipment and gobs of McLaren money wherever he raced. Not even Vettel was spoon-fed like that. He had to prove his mettle in a Toro Rosso and did that convincingly (still their only winner and scored about 80% of all points in STR's history). Lewis jumped right into a potentially winning car.
There's theoretically nothing wrong with that as he has the talent to justify that decision, but then he shouldn't try to paint himself as the one, who worked his way up from the slums. He's been extremely privileged. The Monaco weekend showed one thing - he's badly lacking in intelligence or as we say 'intellectually different'. I'm not saying he's stupid, he just knows very little.

[henners88]

The 2007 Macca WAS a race winning car. Who else did get to make his F1 debut in a top team? The only other one I can remember is Jacques Villeneuve and he came with a CART title and an Indy 500 win as a reference. Lewis had it the easiest way. He never needed to drive midfield cars, never in his whole junior career, which is why his 'I'm hungrier than thou' attack on Rosberg backfired so badly. Hamilton was signed up by McLaren at the age of 13 (like Vettel was by Red Bull btw.) From then on he had the best possible equipment and gobs of McLaren money wherever he raced. Not even Vettel was spoon-fed like that. He had to prove his mettle in a Toro Rosso and did that convincingly (still their only winner and scored about 80% of all points in STR's history). Lewis jumped right into a potentially winning car.
There's theoretically nothing wrong with that as he has the talent to justify that decision, but then he shouldn't try to paint himself as the one, who worked his way up from the slums. He's been extremely privileged. The Monaco weekend showed one thing - he's badly lacking in intelligence or as we say 'intellectually different'. I'm not saying he's stupid, he just knows very little.
Hamilton may have had a slightly easier route than most but lets not forget he was dropped from the McLaren/Mercedes driver development program at one point and had to earn it back. Vettel would have got a seat straight at Red Bull had Coulthard's 2008 contract not been in place as Helmut Marko once remarked, the timings didn't add up as he'd wished.

It is also worth remembering Lewis proved from the very start of his F1 career that going straight to a top team was definitely the right call. A rookie scoring 9 consecutive podiums and winning at race 6 proved he had what it takes. His journey to F1, much like Vettel's was highly decorated and at that time was the most successful rookie on the grid back in 2007. Drivers all want to drive for the best and its about good management and getting your foot in the door. I can't quite believe Lewis gets criticised for this and somehow fans like yourself feel he was 'spoon fed' because of sheer jealousy. In this day and age it is sad and something I would expect from the younger less experienced fan, but no you DJ.

I think Lewis does over do the 'worked his way up from the slums' part, that I agree with. However he was privileged due to his ability and got interest very early in his career through cheekily approaching Ron Dennis to his father putting in a hell of a lot of hard work in the process. Unlike Nico he did not grow up in Monaco with a World champion father or Vettel in a middle class region with personal friendship of Michael Schumacher. They all made their connection to where they are now and have all got to the top by exploiting who they know in order to get there. Lets applaud them for that!

Back to Monaco 2014. Lewis complained on the radio and I don't feel that is deserving of Donkey of the race personally. Nico didn't get it for his complaints in Malaysia 2013 or Bahrain 2014 for similar things even though they were all warranted IMO. The fall out within the team was not connected with the race as we saw it and was a private matter until Lauda brought it to the media's attention. I know many are rubbing their hands together but we judge the poorest driver in the race, not the politics afterwards. My donkey's would be Chilton and Sutil, although I don't know what they said on their team radio's or afterwards because it doesn't matter.

[Whyzars]

I googled it for you . I would suggest definition number one would be the intended one .

ig·no·ble
igˈnōbəl/Submit
adjective
1.
not honorable in character or purpose.
"ignoble feelings of intense jealousy"
synonyms: dishonorable, unworthy, base, shameful, contemptible, despicable, dastardly, vile, degenerate, shabby, sordid, mean; More
2.
of humble origin or social status.
"ignoble savages"


I know precisely what it means, I was just curious that MacFeegle used the term.


I'm wondering whose ex-wife they got to draw up that synonym list...

[Whyzars]

Sorry word wrong? I mean not honour man.

Its the right word, I just hadn't seen it being used on a forum since, like ever. :D

[easy rider]

Excellent post henners88

[easy rider]

Excellent post henners88.....excellent analysis in your comments, especially Lewis being spoon fed by McLaren, and Nico's complaints being totally ignored, during Malaysia 2013 and Bahrain 2014.

For those who think that Ron Dennis wouldn't have dropped Hamilton like a hot rock if he didn't perform all along the way, then you don't have a realistic view of Mr. Dennis.

[Tazio]

This^^

[TheFamousEccles]

Is this discussion STILL going? Jeebus McChrist, everybody! Step outside and go for a walk, and all make solemn vows never to speak of this again. :beer:

[journeyman racer]

How do you come to the conclusion that Lewis has had a race winning car since the start of his career ?I suspect it must have something to do with the fact Hamilton has at least won a race in every year since the start of his career?


For those who think that Ron Dennis wouldn't have dropped Hamilton like a hot rock if he didn't perform all along the way, then you don't have a realistic view of Mr. Dennis. Why did he keep Berger for 3 years?

[easy rider]

Why did he keep Berger for 3 years?


One reason he had Senna, and Berger was a proven commodity as a F1 driver.

Lewis on the other hand was in McLaren's driver's development program, and had to perform at a very high level, which would have seen him being dropped from the program, if their expectations from him weren't met.

[journeyman racer]

Proven commodity? Proven mediocrity.


One reason he had Senna,
Well, I suppose Dennis could take a punt with a spud in the second seat.

[Doc Austin]

I suspect it must have something to do with the fact Hamilton has at least won a race in every year since the start of his career?

Why did he keep Berger for 3 years?

Perhaps he had enough of the Senna/Prost infighting and as long as Senna and Berger got along he was satisfied. Senna won enough that McLaren didn't really need two number ones.

[truefan72]

Proven commodity? Proven mediocrity.




Since when is 10 wins, 48 podiums, 12 poles, 21 fastest laps and 210 races mediocre
Stats that are right on par with rubens, (and he had a dominant Ferrari for 3 seasons)
SMH

I'm old enough to have watched berger race and he was a quality driver.
lousy owner & team boss though

[driveace]

But good at running his haulage company in Germany !

[MacFeegle]

Since when is 10 wins, 48 podiums, 12 poles, 21 fastest laps and 210 races mediocre
Stats that are right no par with rubens, (and he had a dominant Ferrari for 3 seasons)
SMH

I'm old enough to have watched berger race and he was a quality driver.
lousy owner & team boss though

Gerhard quality but not tip top. You compare with Rubino 50% accurate, Gerhard always own man and not bend over. Good pilot.

[truefan72]

Gerhard quality but not tip top. You compare with Rubino 50% accurate, Gerhard always own man and not bend over. Good pilot.

agreed, never said he was an all time great, but certainly had a very good F1 career...and far from mediocre

[Malbec]

Perhaps he had enough of the Senna/Prost infighting and as long as Senna and Berger got along he was satisfied. Senna won enough that McLaren didn't really need two number ones.

Precisely, and with Berger Dennis had a number two that would have been quick enough to be the number one driver for many front-running teams including Ferrari yet who was not quite quick enough to threaten Senna AND get along with their star driver. Those were rare qualities at the time.

[MacFeegle]

Mr Truefan and Mr Malbec spot on. Gerhard similar to Button, no? Sublime on day and good scorer but not T1 me think. Still, me like him.

[journeyman racer]

Perhaps he had enough of the Senna/Prost infighting and as long as Senna and Berger got along he was satisfied. Senna won enough that McLaren didn't really need two number ones.
So in defiance of easy rider's opinion. Under certain circumstances, Dennis would accept poor performance.


With the possible exception of Stefano Modena, there was no one else available.

[journeyman racer]

Mr Truefan and Mr Malbec spot on. Gerhard similar to Button, no? Sublime on day and good scorer but not T1 me think. Still, me like him.
What? What??? Button is miles ahead of that potato. If Berger was driving the Brawn during his "prime" instead of Button, Vettel would've won 5 straight titles!


Since when is 10 wins, 48 podiums, 12 poles, 21 fastest laps and 210 races mediocre
Stats that are right on par with rubens, (and he had a dominant Ferrari for 3 seasons)
SMH

I'm old enough to have watched berger race and he was a quality driver.
lousy owner & team boss though
I read this opinion. It seems to me that you either can't, or don't put stats in context. Barrichello had to wait til his 8th season of F1 to be in a car that could genuinely win a race.

Since when is 10 wins, 48 podiums, 12 poles, 21 fastest laps and 210 races mediocre? I'll tell you when. When a guy's career spans 14 seasons, 12 of which were in cars capable of winning a race. Yet, he managed the grand total of 10 wins. 10 wins equates to 0.83 wins a year. That's less than one a year! There are 16 races in a year!

Twice managed the heady heights of multiple races win in a season. Never managing to get more than 2 though. Usually when a driver becomes a multiple race winner, but never claims the title, there's always a season or two where the particular driver at least threatens to win it. But not Gerhard. He was often out of title contention by quite early in the season, round about Monaco GP time.

Slack. Unremarkable. No performance of note on the track. A large portion of his minimal amount of wins were due to an exceptional oddity that wasn't factored in. His only two memorabile moments on the track were to slam the wall at San Marino, and Mansell passing him round the outside at Mexico. You're right, he was far from mediocre, he wasn't good enough to be that good.

Gerhard Berger - An absolute pathetic attempt at imitating a GP driver.

[airshifter]

What? What??? Button is miles ahead of that potato. If Berger was driving the Brawn during his "prime" instead of Button, Vettel would've won 5 straight titles!



Since when is 10 wins, 48 podiums, 12 poles, 21 fastest laps and 210 races mediocre? I'll tell you when. When a guy's career spans 14 seasons, 12 of which were in cars capable of winning a race. Yet, he managed the grand total of 10 wins. 10 wins equates to 0.83 wins a year. That's less than one a year! There are 16 races in a year!

.

From a statistical viewpoint, Button isn't far off from Berger. But in that sense Berger was often teamed with people on the top of their game, and/or competing in seasons that were dominated by other teams and drivers. From an unbiased viewpoint, the career of Berger to me is more impressive than that of Button.

Neither was/is the quickest of their day unless in a dominant car, but both are generally the types of drivers that are consistent enough for teams to want their services.

[steveaki13]

From a statistical viewpoint, Button isn't far off from Berger. But in that sense Berger was often teamed with people on the top of their game, and/or competing in seasons that were dominated by other teams and drivers. From an unbiased viewpoint, the career of Berger to me is more impressive than that of Button.

Neither was/is the quickest of their day unless in a dominant car, but both are generally the types of drivers that are consistent enough for teams to want their services.

I like both drivers and rate them as decent drivers. However I have to put JB ahead. He has won a World Championship. That for me however it is done, puts him a level up from Berger.

[rjbetty]

You're right, he was far from mediocre, he wasn't good enough to be that good.

Gerhard Berger - An absolute pathetic attempt at imitating a GP driver.

Woah dude that's a little harsh.

He wasn't the best in the world by any means, but during his time, he was generally considered the best driver after the group of Senna, Prost, Mansell and Piquet. And he was considered to be capable of putting in the best drive out there on his best days.

I don't really consider him title material, but he was pretty good, though his final 2 years in particular were pretty slow and rubbish mostly.

I'd definitely put Button ahead as I think he did better than Berger in his prime would have in 2010 etc, but I'd say maybe Gerhard is more like Barrichello, just about.