Curtains ?

[Roamy]

Which drivers will not make it thru the season?

1. Scott Speed
2. Liuzzi

One or both are headed for the dumpster IMO.

[race aficionado]

pity if the Noth Americans lose their representative.

do you think he would be up there if he were in a McLaren?
or is he not that good for F1

[pino]

Liuzzi told ital TV that the car is just too slow, so how we can blame the drivers for their poor results ?

[Robinho]

whilst they are both performing equally poorly they might have a chance, as if they both are close and claim to be getting the best from the car then they may survive, if one starts convincinly stuffing the other then at least one will fall this season

[Roamy]

well if that motor is not detuned then this is terrible in my opinion

[BeansBeansBeans]

I was surprised that Speed and Liuzzi were retained by Toro Rosso, to be honest. Neither are truly bad, but there are simply better young drivers out there.

[trumperZ06]

;) Hhmmm... too bad Berger isn't Japanese !!! If he was.... many would expect him to do the honorable thing !!!

[Ian McC]

;) Hhmmm... too bad Berger isn't Japanese !!! If he was.... many would expect him to do the honorable thing !!!

Hardly, I don't see anyone at Honda or Toyota doing it :D

[Easy Drifter]

I think TAGF playing with his Toy is holding a very short straw and too big a salary.

[Hayden Fan]

Which drivers will not make it thru the season?

1. Scott Speed
2. Liuzzi

One or both are headed for the dumpster IMO.

Speed. I am a huge fan, but I don't seem him lasting. After Indy, he can get the cut and come to Champ Car. Go to PKV and team with Neel Jani, and Tristan Gommendy, and call the team, Team Red Bull.

[ioan]

well if that motor is not detuned then this is terrible in my opinion

They are all limited to 19000 revs/min.
Why would Ferrari detune the engines any more, to get some bad publicity compared to the Renault engines used by the sister cars at RedBull?

[Roamy]

that is what i am afraid of ioan

[Hawkmoon]

I think the quality of the car has a lot to do with it. I think Newey's first Red Bull is proving to be a bit of an MP4-18 Mark II. The only driver who seems able to get any speed out of the thing is Webber and only in qualifying. So, to be fair to Liuzzi and Speed, they haven't got much to work with.

Their fates will probably be tied to the plans that Berger and Mateschitz have for their respective shares in the team.

[DimitraF1]

ioan and fousto are friends?:P tifosi scam :P

[ioan]

ioan and fousto are friends?:P tifosi scam :P

???

[Ian McC]

Don't you call them drapes over there Fousto?

[pino]

ioan and fousto are friends?:P tifosi scam :P

Did you read my 1st warning ? I've asked to stop posting nonsense and to be more constructive when posting. I am not going to ask that again...

[Ian McC]

To be honest I almost forgot they were still racing, especially Speed, can't remember the last time I heard his name mentioned on the TV coverage, still, doesn't help that it's a crap car.

[e2mtt]

I think the Torro Rosso is just atrociously bad. So far qualifying, the 2 drivers have gridded one after the other 2 out of 3 races, and seperated by 2 spots once. (Speed +.9, Luizzi +.4 & +.3)
It is going to be very tough to ever show any brilliance in that car. Unless one of them starts out-qualifying or out-racing the other by a large margin, or STR gets better in a big hurry, both SS & VL will be out of F1.
(And the Ferrari customer engine might just be junk... Spyker & STR own the back of the grid.)

[Jag_Warrior]

Speed seems to have gotten off on the wrong foot with STR this season. My guess is he'll be the one who takes a bullet. If he's lucky, he may find a ride in Champ Car (that doesn't require him to bring a $4 million check). Otherwise, maybe he'll be able to land a test drive seat somewhere. He'd probably rather be a tester in F1, as CCWS seats that pay are few. And being a tester at least keeps his name in the F1 mix.

[trumperZ06]

;) Berger wanted Red Bull to pick up Speed's salary again this year. Red Bull wanted Berger to act like a 50 % partner and pay half Speed's salary.

Poor Scot Speed got caught up with Berger's attitude... and was made to look bad !!!

Typical Formula 1 business practices... Berger must have learned ethics from Lauda !!! :p :

[Ian McC]

Maybe you should add Ralf to the list.

[Easy Drifter]

I did, Post #9. (TAGF)

[e2mtt]

If Scott Speed doesn't keep his F1 ride, I think he will stay in Europe, maybe run some GP2 again, or get a test drive somewhere. I don't think he is too excited to run around in Champ Car in the backwaters of the US.

I think he will someday win a GP.

[OmarF1]

Hardly, I don't see anyone at Honda or Toyota doing it :D

Toyota is more german than japanese and Honda more English than japanese :p

[CharlieJ]

To be honest I almost forgot they were still racing, especially Speed, can't remember the last time I heard his name mentioned on the TV coverage, still, doesn't help that it's a crap car.
That would be when he collided with Button today and they both retired. :D Although, to be fair, it wasn't his fault.

[truefan72]

the car is just so awful, it is hard to say
1. Never trust ferrari customer engines
2. Have strong and decisive leadership in the team
3. whatever aero package they have, change it

they have a month now to get things sorted out

[stevie_gerrard]

i dont think either of the toro rosso drivers are good enough in my opinion, yet i could say the same about button this season :p :

i have a feeling we wont be seeing too much of kovalainen anymore, which is going to annoy me cause it will affect my private fantasy f1 team :(

[jso1985]

I think I'll add Sutil to the list, either he stops crashing against everyone or he's on his way to do an "Ide".

If Speed or Liuzzi can bring some cash I think they'll stay, unless Red Bull has some young gun on their list

[CarlMetro]

I think Torro Rosso are realistic in their approach to this season, at least that is waht was mentioned by Martin Brundle during todays race when he said he'd had a chat to Gerhard Berger and Gerhard had told him it was a big rebuild year this year. I think Speed and Liuzzi are doing as good a job as they can with perhaps the second or third worst car on the grid, not forgetting that this is last years Red Bull chasis.

If I was going to fire anyone, it would be Ralf. Lacklustre performances and being continually out-performed by his teammate would mean for me that he wouldn't have got a drive at all this year and after today's performance he'd definately be out.

[ioan]

If I was going to fire anyone, it would be Ralf. Lacklustre performances and being continually out-performed by his teammate would mean for me that he wouldn't have got a drive at all this year and after today's performance he'd definately be out.

I'm still to see that Jarno is continuously outperforming Ralf, for now Ralf beat him two seasons in a row and this year in Oz too.

[Valve Bounce]

Which drivers will not make it thru the season?

1. Scott Speed
2. Liuzzi

One or both are headed for the dumpster IMO.

Can anyone tell me why Sutil is in F1?

[Dazz9908]

Can anyone tell me why Sutil is in F1?
HE brings alot of $$$$$$$$ with him

[F1boat]

But Sutil seems faster than Albers!

[Dazz9908]

I'm still to see that Jarno is continuously outperforming Ralf, for now Ralf beat him two seasons in a row and this year in Oz too.
I think both the Toyota drivers have had their day, Fresh blood with a strong work approach, and a stronger head in the team, then Toyota may start getting somewhere.

Maybe a new approach in how the team is run, instead of like a car manufacturing factory as it is now, may be beneficial too.

[wmcot]

I think it's a combination of things as far as STR goes. STR is not Newey's main project - you can't build a car for a Renault engine and throw a Ferrari engine in it and expect it to be competitive.

I question both drivers as far as experience and motivation go.

I doubt the Ferrari engine is the problem - I could see Ferrari smiling if the STRs beat the Renault powered RBs. Spyker wouldn't get anywhere even with a factory Ferrari V10 from 2004 until they get Gascoyne to fix the car's design (if possible)

[truefan72]

Albers, based on the first 3 races and his ridiculous excuses is the least deserving of an f1 seat.

Both spyker and torro rossi cars have taken a step back this year and it is no surprise that they are on Ferrari engines. Those engines were built to fit in a Ferrari car and everything else to fit around it. It has been proven with sauber, red bull last year, and both these cars this year that they are the worst customer engin company out there.
now that being said, toward the middle and the back, there isn't much difference between the drivers ability and it really does come down mostly to the car about 75/25 car/driver factor. So it becomes hard to judge a drivers worth until they step into a solid car. look what PDLR did give the chance to drive a Mcclaren, Salo in a Ferrari, etc... so I don't really judge these drivers based on their performance. I look at their race craftsmanship, incidents. overtaking abiltiy, starts, and teammate comparision to try and judge their worth. All except Albers, who clearly is not deserving of the F1 seat. Should have kept Tiago

[schmenke]

...If I was going to fire anyone, it would be Ralf. Lacklustre performances and being continually out-performed by his teammate would mean for me that he wouldn't have got a drive at all this year and after today's performance he'd definately be out.

Isn't Ralph one of the highest paid drivers on the grid? I'd be curious to know Trulli's salary in comparison. I'm sure that on a $ per point basis Trulli is the better bargain :mark:

[jens]

When the car is crap, then it's easy to beat the drivers. And I don't think Speed and Liuzzi are as bad as they look (same about Spyker drivers). I hope one of them will get the Red Bull seat next year, then compared to an experienced driver (Webber) we'll see, what's their level.

About Ralf - Toyota's demand for lengthening the contract with him is that his salary needs to be reduced significantly. Haven't any idea, how much do they want to reduce it, but maybe down to about the same level of Jarno's (reduce more than twice in that case). Toyota also looks to be seeking for a new driver for next year. Besides Heidfeld they doesn't seem to have any other negotiations in process at the moment. Maybe they would consider Rosberg?

[call_me_andrew]

They've got the same car as RBR. Speed likes to look down his nose at every series that doesn't rhyme with Bormula One. I could picture Liuzzi test driving, driving in GP2, or driving in CC. Either way, they both suck.

[Nikki Katz]

I don't think we're going to lose any drivers any time soon. I think that with 3 races to go Toro Rosso will confirm Bourdais for next year. Speed will throw a strop and get dropped and they'll put someone like Viso (or Ammermuller if he starts having a better season) in for the final races.
Unless Barrichello decides that it just isn't worth him racing any more in such a slow car and retires half way through the season.

[ClarkFan]

Both spyker and torro rossi cars have taken a step back this year and it is no surprise that they are on Ferrari engines. Those engines were built to fit in a Ferrari car and everything else to fit around it. It has been proven with sauber, red bull last year, and both these cars this year that they are the worst customer engin company out there.


Perhaps the problem is that they sell to the worst customers?

When Sauber decided to tailor their 2004 car to the Ferrari engine (or straight rip off the F2003), they had their most successful recent season. (Then they had to hire JV and bugger it up. :s ) It seems that if you design around the Ferrari engine it can serve, but it you just bung it into the back in place of another lump, you will fail pretty miserably.

ClarkFan

[Valve Bounce]

Albers, based on the first 3 races and his ridiculous excuses is the least deserving of an f1 seat.

Both spyker and torro rossi cars have taken a step back this year and it is no surprise that they are on Ferrari engines. Those engines were built to fit in a Ferrari car and everything else to fit around it. It has been proven with sauber, red bull last year, and both these cars this year that they are the worst customer engin company out there.
now that being said, toward the middle and the back, there isn't much difference between the drivers ability and it really does come down mostly to the car about 75/25 car/driver factor. So it becomes hard to judge a drivers worth until they step into a solid car. look what PDLR did give the chance to drive a Mcclaren, Salo in a Ferrari, etc... so I don't really judge these drivers based on their performance. I look at their race craftsmanship, incidents. overtaking abiltiy, starts, and teammate comparision to try and judge their worth. All except Albers, who clearly is not deserving of the F1 seat. Should have kept Tiago

This is clearly an interesting thread. I never would have classified bunsen and Rubens with the Spyker duo; that is harsh.

However, there is method in madness: perhaps Spyker is hoping for a customer factory Ferrari for next year.