Rallye Deutschland 2014

[dekkerm1]

Gents,,

2 years ago i visitted the sweden rally.
This year I like to visit the german rally.
I would highly appriciate if people with german rally experience can tell me what the best places will be for parking own car and where to watch the cars coming by.


Thanks!!

[Franky]

In the official rally magazine there are maps with spectator points and parking areas. About where to watch really depends on what kind of action you are looking for.

[Mintexmemory]

Initial information from the organisers is that the Start will be in Trier again after last year's Koln experiment. Also just 3 competitive days, so no evening stages as in 2013.
The classic vineyard stages of Mittelmosel, Moselwein, Dhronthal all have a variety of spectator points where you can see flowing sections or the climb up the terrace via series of hairpins.
As Franky said the maps produced by the organisers are usually very good, it's worth spending a day before the start doing recce to pick a point from those available.
Also search flickr to see if anyone has geotagged a photo that you like the look of.
e.g.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/10319104216/

[dekkerm1]

Okey guys thanks very much. The rally is definatly on, got the time of from work arranged as well as the one i'm going with :)

[Ralph-Mario]

For all :

http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2014/static/126/Zeitplan2014-1004.pdf

[HaCo]

Wonder why they split Panzerplatte in 2 parts (see Att). Why is there only 15mins between the two stages? Would be great to travel to Panzerplatte just for one day and see 4 stages.

[Eli]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/april/germany-route/page/1289--12-12-.html

[Mintexmemory]

Wonder why they split Panzerplatte in 2 parts (see Att). Why is there only 15mins between the two stages? Would be great to travel to Panzerplatte just for one day and see 4 stages.

All explained on the ADAC website, apparently it's this way so any problem on the long stage wouldn't prevent the arena stage being run twice ( a response to last year's fatality when PP2 was cancelled and fans only saw the pass through the arena once). Makes it easier to run the Slowly Sideways cars just around the arena at lunchtime.

[Giorgos Zampaftis]

Hi to all!

My first outside (from greece) attempt was in WRC San Remo at 2003. After 11 years we decide to come for the ADAC Rallye!

I would like everyone that can help me, to suggest nice places/cities so we can stay so we can see the rally. I know that is difficult to be close to every stage, but i will apreciate any good suggestions of you tha know some places better than me! :)

Also any other advice that u believe will help me is welcome!

Thanks in advance

[saxter]

A question : To watch the stages, shakedown, the rally general, i must have to buy the ticket/rally pass? Or with the ticket i will have more beneftis ?

The roads to the stages r closed for the people without a ticket?

thanks!

[MartijnS]

Yes. You need a ticket to watch basically. Offcourse there are always roads to get to the stages without being checked, but they've got it pretty much locked down.

[saxter]

Yes. You need a ticket to watch basically. Offcourse there are always roads to get to the stages without being checked, but they've got it pretty much locked down.

thanks!

[SiCole]

Also visiting Germany this year, can you pay per stage as im travelling with family and they are only interested in a couple of stages. Not really wanting to splash out over 250 euros on 4 rally passes
many thanks

[Franky]

I believe they sell single stage tickets but I don't know how much they cost.

[SiCole]

thanks Franky

[SiCole]

received this today from rally Germany
Dear Mr. Cole,

thank you for your kind request. It is possible to pay per stage, these tickets costs 15€ per person per day. The Hansa-Stage is the exception, tickets for this stage cost 20€ per person per day. Children till 12 years have free entry to the event.

Kind regards,

[manthey]

received this today from rally Germany
Dear Mr. Cole,

thank you for your kind request. It is possible to pay per stage, these tickets costs 15€ per person per day. The Hansa-Stage is the exception, tickets for this stage cost 20€ per person per day. Children till 12 years have free entry to the event.

Kind regards,

Hansa stage is Arena Panzerplatte ?

[SiCole]

Hansa stage is Arena Panzerplatte ?
I'm guessing it is

[wwbroe]

Apparently Bryan Bouffier will drive the third factory Hyundai in Deutschland Rally. Good for him, let's see what he can do on this tarmac event.

[WUff1]

Apparently Bryan Bouffier will drive the third factory Hyundai in Deutschland Rally. Good for him, let's see what he can do on this tarmac event.

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/07/07/hyundai-setzt-bouffier-in-deutschland-ein/index.html

[JTGANG]

I think if there is any chance for Hyundai's victory this year will be in Deutschlald.....

[dimviii]

I think if there is any chance for Hyundai's victory this year will be in Deutschlald.....

we havent see how fast it is a dry tarmac.

[Mirek]

Bouffier did Rallye d'Antibes with i20 and it was far from convincing...

[harriswrc]

I think if there is any chance for Hyundai's victory this year will be in Deutschlald.....Is it a joke?

[JTGANG]

Is it a joke?

Why should be a joke ??? Hyundai i20 has prove that is as fast as every other car and in tarmac assume will
not have the quality problem of car parts that have suffered in gravel events....Sordo is last year winner
and Nueville is very fast there too so why not ??? I am not saying that will win but is their best chance
as do not think Ogier and Latvala have their usual gravel advantage

[N.O.T]

Why should be a joke ??? Hyundai i20 has prove that is as fast as every other car and in tarmac assume will
not have the quality problem of car parts that have suffered in gravel events....Sordo is last year winner
and Nueville is very fast there too so why not ??? I am not saying that will win but is their best chance
as do not think Ogier and Latvala have their usual gravel advantage

If VWs retire they might have a chance. If you believe they can win the whole rally with VW boys in the game then start watching tennis. At best they can win a stage or 2 once the tops spots are booked.

[JTGANG]

If VWs retire they might have a chance. If you believe they can win the whole rally with VW boys in the game then start watching tennis. At best they can win a stage or 2 once the tops spots are booked.

Where are you based and make this assumption ???? (και κάνω πως δεν βλέπω την κλασσική εξυπνάδα σου για τένις) ....Citroen won last year in VW field and at all stages Sordo & Nueville were making at least equal times with Latvala & Oger

[N.O.T]

Where do i base this assumption...hmmmm

1. VW is stronger than last year, no other team won this year
2. Hyundai is unreliable
3. Hyundai are still slow compared to VW
4. They use part time drivers
5. Citroen won last year using the best driver the sport has ever seen in his close to home event (on tarmac)
6. Last year Sordo was using a car he was driving since his birth... almost

are these facts enough ?

On what facts you base your assumption ?

there are many events you can follow during july
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tournaments/Event-Calendar.aspx

[JTGANG]

Where do i base this assumption...hmmmm

1. VW is stronger than last year, no other team won this year
Actually compare to last year only Loeb is the difference as nobody else won also last year

2. Hyundai is unreliable
I did not say the opposite on that

3. Hyundai are still slow compared to VW
Maybe bit yes but they will not be the clear advantage that Ogier,Latvala have at gravel

4. They use part time drivers
Nueville is a full time driver and Sordo was/is factory driver for so many years/teams

5. Citroen won last year using the best driver the sport has ever seen in his close to home event (on tarmac)
I am talking for the same driver also this year...+ Nueville

6. Last year Sordo was using a car he was driving since his birth... almost
He was out of the team for 2 years (and in 2010 was part driving) and a so experience driver
does not need long time to fit in a car

there are many events you can follow during july
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tournaments/Event-Calendar.aspx

I am sure you will know also all gay festivals....

[N.O.T]

if you like travelling there are plenty

http://www.nighttours.com/gaypride/

in any case rallying is not for you, there is no rationality in your thoughts, we haven;t even seen what the car (hyundai) is capable of on pure tarmac roads yet... but you use last year facts where different drivers drove different cars to make assumptions for this year.

maybe local village greek events are ok still so you can visit those and maybe the ladycup ERC (although it might also be deep water for you) but WRC...no... you can try F1 though if you like moving things.

[JTGANG]

if you like travelling there are plenty

http://www.nighttours.com/gaypride/

in any case rallying is not for you, there is no rationality in your thoughts, we haven;t even seen what the car (hyundai) is capable of on pure tarmac roads yet... but you use last year facts where different drivers drove different cars to make assumptions for this year.

maybe local village greek events are ok still so you can visit those and maybe the ladycup ERC (although it might also be deep water for you) but WRC...no... you can try F1 though if you like moving things.

Thank God you left Greece to find what you were looking for in UK...Not so easy here having long hair,love for cats and 1.60 height...

[N.O.T]

1.68... us short guys count every cm... we cannot afford not to.

Why life in Greece is not easy for people loving cats ? Has the financial state of the population reached famine levels that you eat those poor fury beasts ?

[dimviii]

guys thats not good...

[tommeke_B]

N.O.T. ... You should get back to your role of admiring a few (if more than one) drivers and hating all the others who don't match the same level, in stead of responding personally to other forum members and going off-topic... If you want to share your favourite gay-events with your fellow Greek friend, please do this in PM.

I think that your ban some time ago wasn't right, still do, but now I'm wondering where any response from moderators is staying.

[N.O.T]

when someone makes personal remarks i will respond accordingly and if you can read English then go through the discussion once more and see if i made any personal comments on that random guy claiming things without any basis... and about my ban if you remember correctly i never said anything about it for about 2 months then someone created a thread about me and i replied.

I will not tolerate anybody who discovered the sport yesterday or 10000 years ago to say things without justifying them... you say something stupid you get the stick... simple as that...

[JTGANG]

Guys I have never written anything offending to anybody in here nor I tried to discover universe

I simply said that if Huyndai has any chance to win any event this year will be German round due to quality of drivers in tarmac, the fact that will car will not have to face the hard grounds in which has present many casualties and best drivers in WRC Ogier,Latvala will not have the advantage of gravel in which are too difficult to be beaten .Do not see anything crazy on that
which is a simple opinion

And then the usual miserable guy N.O.T started talking about me watching tennis etc. The guy who does not have any idea about engineering that is why never participates in mechanical discussions , the guy that has never driven any fast car (which guy loves racing and owns Suzuki Swift ?? ) , he is not even watching Greek rally (he admitted that first time went to see the most wonderful stages Greek rally round 2 years ago) , is not even watching Acropolis Rally (doubt has seen more than 2-3 times) and I am sure does not watch any other Rally Championship that is why whenever a new driver comes up always never heard of him and accuse him of slow etc…… Simply stands each time behind the fastest driver of the world and accusing and speak ironically for everybody else

I am sure all this coming from his comblex due to low self-respect but this is his problem

Sorry for the off topic

[N.O.T]

I do not even have a drivers licence... i do not like cars they are too slow. I rode a motorbike and always will...

Too may assumptions about a person you do not even know... most of them wrong

As for the hyundai winning... maybe even tennis is too much for you... give me some time and i can think of an appropriate sport for you, there must be something.

[jbmarcus21]

Google Earth Map Deutschland is online http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/wrc-rallye-allemagne-2014/

[Mintexmemory]

I've been watching and would kindly ask that the tit for tat argument ends now and that we stay on thread, thanks

[wildboar]

Entry list:
http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2014/static/179/List%20of%20Entries.pdf

[MartijnS]

Nice that Dennis Kuipers is back in the Fiesta WRC :)

[N]

I'm going to Rally Germany for the first time. What's it like with parking near the stages. I see that you need to have a ticket to view the stage, but can you drive up to the spectator areas which are marked on the map and leave the car on the side of the road?

[Mintexmemory]

I'm going to Rally Germany for the first time. What's it like with parking near the stages. I see that you need to have a ticket to view the stage, but can you drive up to the spectator areas which are marked on the map and leave the car on the side of the road?

Generally not on the day of the rally. You have to use the designated parking areas at the cost of 1 euro per time. And then walk (usually between 0.5 -1k) to the stage. This year ADAC appear to have taken the French approach, you can only view from a designated spectator zone. If you drive into the stage the day before and park in a prohibited zone you could be moved on. There are a number of approved stageside camping zones with exact details given on the ADAC website.

The only thing I don't know is when they actually close the stage to normal traffic - any local advice please?

[N]

Ok, the reason I ask is, for example, one stage I'm looking at has 4 spectator areas, but only parking close to one area, so, how do you get to the other 3 areas - the only way is with a car. From other rallies I've been to, you go onto a side road approaching the stage and just park on the side of the road.
I don't mind paying 1 EUR, but I would like to make a plan as to where to go.

[Mintexmemory]

Ok, the reason I ask is, for example, one stage I'm looking at has 4 spectator areas, but only parking close to one area, so, how do you get to the other 3 areas - the only way is with a car. From other rallies I've been to, you go onto a side road approaching the stage and just park on the side of the road.
I don't mind paying 1 EUR, but I would like to make a plan as to where to go.

Which stage? Quite a number of forum members have Deutschland experience and (myself included) so may be able to give you specific advice. The satellite pictures on the ADAC website are very reliable and normally show the walking route to any particular zone

[hari]

Ok, the reason I ask is, for example, one stage I'm looking at has 4 spectator areas, but only parking close to one area, so, how do you get to the other 3 areas.

On which maps are you refering? In the official Rally Magazine every official Zone is described and also how to get there by car. In the Maps for every Zone the parking places and footpaths are marked. Rally Germany is probably the easiest WRC Event to spectate without prior experience, everything is very very well prepared and organised. Nothing to worry about.

[N]

I was looking at the Spectator map from ADAC Rally Deutschland website. For example, the stage I'm looking at is Waxweiler, SS2/5.
On the website it says that parking for that stage is at Z1, in Dackscheid, GPS: 50°7'1.3"N, 6°23'30.0"E (Kapellenstraße)

[Mintexmemory]

I was looking at the Spectator map from ADAC Rally Deutschland website. For example, the stage I'm looking at is Waxweiler, SS2/5.
On the website it says that parking for that stage is at Z1, in Dackscheid, GPS: 50°7'1.3"N, 6°23'30.0"E (Kapellenstraße)



http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2014/static/185/Spectator%20Map%202014.pdf

If you look at that map it shows approach roads in green which you can follow to the relevant parking areas for the 4 zones. If there is not a designated field (which is usual) then marshals will normally park cars on one side of the approach road (that has happened at Stein und Wein to me). Any other roads may be blocked a long way from the stage. It appears that ADAC have created a bit of confusion by not making the approach road convention clear.

[hari]

I was looking at the Spectator map from ADAC Rally Deutschland website. For example, the stage I'm looking at is Waxweiler, SS2/5.
On the website it says that parking for that stage is at Z1, in Dackscheid, GPS: 50°7'1.3"N, 6°23'30.0"E (Kapellenstraße)

Every Zone on the Waxweiler Stage Z1-Z4 has his own parking place. Footpath from 100m to 800m. Buy the official Programme when you arrive in the Rally Region and you will have all the Information needed.

[N]

Thanks, this is what I was wondering, so basically I can follow the arrows to any spectator zone and there will be parking - excellent!

[sete]

Is there entry list of Historical cars and national entries?

[EightGear]

Probably no Breen I guess due to his back injury? Autosport.com reports he's hoping to be recovered in time for Barum, which is after Germany.

[PLuto]

On ERC pages confirmed he will not start in Germany.

[pantealex]

On ERC pages confirmed he will not start in Germany.
and WRC.com says he will...

[gregwrc]

Is there entry list of Historical cars and national entries?

Does anyone knows something about the Entry List of ADAC Rallye Deutschland National 2014 ;

http://ewrc-results.com/final.php?e=18368

[harriswrc]

Something more than this?
http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2014/static/190/Nennliste%20NATIONAL.pdf

[evoIX]

Does anyone could tell me how far it is from servisepark Trier to Porta Nigra(start),recommend by car or on foot?

[Hartusvuori]

Does anyone could tell me how far it is from servisepark Trier to Porta Nigra(start),recommend by car or on foot?

By car. It's roughly 5 kilometres. There's parking space available near Service Park as well as near Porta Nigra.

[Franky]

Does anyone could tell me how far it is from servisepark Trier to Porta Nigra(start),recommend by car or on foot?

As Hartusvuori already suggested, by car is the most comfortable option. If the service park hasn't moved compared to last years, then this would be the walking route - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/49.7593999,6.6441881/49.7423436,6.6207823/@49.7610447,6.6453195,17z/data=!4m4!4m3!1m0!1m0!3e2

[evoIX]

Thank you guys for information.

[gregwrc]

Something more than this?
http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2014/static/190/Nennliste%20NATIONAL.pdf

only adam cup ....

[Hartusvuori]

only adam cup ....

That's all that's matters in nationals. Good to see them. My eye is on Emil Bergkvist.

[Rallyper]

That's all that's matters in nationals. Good to see them. My eye is on Emil Bergkvist.

A bit OT. I raced his father in same class back in the80's in a local rally here in Sweden. We both drove tuned Ascona B. He beat me with one minute winning and me second in a 90 K SS. So I know Emil has a good heritage.

[MartijnS]

Breen starting?
I believe Ewrc posted something like that on facebook.


Craig Breen včas vyléčil zraněná záda a Německé rally se zúčastní.

[Maurice_M_27]

On Breen's Twitter account he states he has all clear from doctor, so will start.

[Hartusvuori]

Some sort of historic parade on Panzerplatte: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/08/15/panzerplatte-fans-treffen-champions/index.html#.U-36WGOPomN

Nice list of participants:
Michele Mouton
Juha Kankkunen
Armin Schwarz
Stig Blomqvist
Hannu Mikkola
Harald Demuth
Ari Vatanen
Kalle Grundel
Dieter Depping
Per Eklund
Timo Salonen
Klaus Fritzinger
Jacky Ickx

[makinen_fan]

New livery for Nasser to match his Dakar car
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvF2Qr0CQAM1QV5.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans had an off in testing ... he was trying though ! :)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T8VZaK...ature=youtu.be

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvEPJUJIYAAaARV.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvEeQejCAAAkPI3.jpg:large

[pantealex]

both Hänninen and Paddon are doing recce.

[Criterium]

A nice way to discover the rally route this week end with RallyVista:

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/15/38/23/21/presrv14.jpg (http://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1097&u=15382321)

http://www.interactiveinfluence.com/techali/rallyvista/

[qbus]

I'm going to see this rally first time so I have some questions:
1: There is only rally pass or there are some single tickets?
2: Can I buy ticket on the stage?
3: How long before stage start roads are closed? There is problem to park on stage?

[N]

From what I understand, there is a ticket for the whole event which costs 69EUR, or you pay 15EUR per stage when you arrive at a stage.
It's the first time I'm going to watch this rally.

Does anyone know, if I for example go to Stage 1, which is rerun in the afternoon as Stage 4, can I buy one ticket for 15EUR and stay on the stage the whole day or do you need a new ticket for the afternoon rerun?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvL4nCxIAAAx0lq.png

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Some very dirty roads in testing area:

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/17/25/M-Sport_Rallye_Deutschland_2014_09_172575_53edbca2d. jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Excellent Kubica test video - he seems to be coping pretty well with the hairpins (as well as rain and mud) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vvn-6wr2dY#t=77

[MartijnS]

Does anyone know, if I for example go to Stage 1, which is rerun in the afternoon as Stage 4, can I buy one ticket for 15EUR and stay on the stage the whole day or do you need a new ticket for the afternoon rerun?

I think the ticket is also valid for the rerun.

[thuGG]

Excellent Kubica test video - he seems to be coping pretty well with the hairpins (as well as rain and mud) ...


At the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pOGW48xGo8 you can see two situations when there's something wrong at hairpins, probably handbrake as he had occasional problems with it the whole season.

[Mintexmemory]

I think the ticket is also valid for the rerun.
Absolutely correct So if you are doing only 2 days and stay on one stage all day (on both days) the event pass isn't worth it. However Service Park is 10 euro EACH visit (no pass out) so 2 different stages per day (which is not difficult) and a visit to service park each day and the pass is excellent value - far better than Wales !!

[Ucci]

At the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pOGW48xGo8 you can see two situations when there's something wrong at hairpins, probably handbrake as he had occasional problems with it the whole season.

IMHO nothing wrong with Fiesta's handbrake. It's a problem with Robert's right arm.....but anyway-Robert will be in the fight for podimum. I'm 100% sure that he is capable of this, he must stay on the road although....this is what I'm not 100% sure of....

[rallysupportnl]

Video Best of - Testing WRC Rallye Deutschland 2014!

http://i60.tinypic.com/zak2e.jpg (http://youtu.be/OIy-fqTNe44)

Click on the photo or here ---> http://youtu.be/OIy-fqTNe44

[thuGG]

IMHO nothing wrong with Fiesta's handbrake. It's a problem with Robert's right arm.....but anyway-Robert will be in the fight for podimum. I'm 100% sure that he is capable of this, he must stay on the road although....this is what I'm not 100% sure of....

Well, nope. He said many times that sometimes the handbrake doesn't work as it should, due to paddles system. He hoped that the broblems will be resolved but they're not. Also last years DS3 had similar problems.

EDIT:
In this video (short interview before Deutschland) he says that it may be not easy rally because of his limitations and problematic parts:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=819564601395871

[evoIX]

Can anyone advise me on which SS on Friday and Sunday is the most interesting, and which spectators areas?

[eib1]

Protasov Fiesta WRC
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvQ_cmJIcAAOAlD.jpg

[turves]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvL4nCxIAAAx0lq.png

I wondern if that boosts Kris' confidence or adds pressure...

[KKS]

Test hairpin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCkNtRmpkt8

[JieM]

Test Kuipers, Protasov, Breen, Moffett, WRC2&3 -> http://youtu.be/RisrpyzktpA

[hari]

Some images from todays test in Veldenz:
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_test_vor_wrc_rallye_deutschland_2014.php

http://www.ir7.at/ve1.jpg (http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_test_vor_wrc_rallye_deutschland_2014.php)

[RallyloverNL]

Nice pics Hari! Here are some of mine!
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3841/14967344492_eba13126e1_o.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3909/14964594151_52cca36cd4_o.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3894/14781005209_05bf2d1479_o.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5559/14781092018_475ae04d1d_o.jpg

More pics here: RallyloverNL (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.268761686581323.1073741852.122215901235903&type=1&l=63124cdf0c)

[bluuford]

Weather forecast:

Shakedown should be without rain.
It is very ilikely that Friday is dry, with some wetness risk in the morning Satruday is more mixed with some light showers expected, more in the morning and later afternoon the day will be most likely dry.
Little warning!!!! Take warmer close than usual. Daily maximum temperatures are not gong to rise above 20 degrees (most likely) and mostly they stay around +15..+17 degrees, early morning and night will be cold.maybe +7..+10 only. According to my memory.. this might become the coldest Rally Germany I remember.

[txl]

Could anyone recommend a good spectator place on Moselland? I'm interested in a narrow fast section with combination of sweeps. Which spectator point should I be targetting? Also some general recommendations about Waxweiler - I don't know what it is so just general info where something interesting could be. Thanks.

[Mintexmemory]

Could anyone recommend a good spectator place on Moselland? I'm interested in a narrow fast section with combination of sweeps. Which spectator point should I be targetting? Also some general recommendations about Waxweiler - I don't know what it is so just general info where something interesting could be. Thanks.

Forum - Rallye,a french site, has a detailed analysis of Waxweiler with photos that should help. If you look at the map of Moselland chose the bends that look best to you and go there - you won't find a bad spot, its a great stage
https://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/4942468527/in/set-72157624695794273/
This photo was taken at the location posted on the photo details, fast interesting kinks in the morning then for the afternoon I moved to the place where this was taken with a view of the hairpin descent
https://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/4946587574/in/set-72157624695794273/

[Lundefaret]

Quick and very informal analyzing of the drivers based on the footage of the testing:

I have given scores based on speed and risk level, where a 10/10 would be the perfect score.
The speed would indicate the possible pace, and the risk the possibility for keeping up that speed during the whole event.

First: A lot of very good driving. So the fight for the second place could be a close one;) Of course limited footage, so this is only based on what was available, but could give a reasonable prediction.

VW:
- Ogier in a class of his own. He is a VERY strong favorite for the win. Especially if the weather turns wet. 9.0/8
- Latvala looks on the pace, but not as precise as Ogier. But clearly on a mission. The trick, as always, for Latvala is what has the win in Finland done for his psyche, will this be good or bad? Could fight for second. 8.7/7
- Mikkelsen. Looks very good, should be in the fight for the podium. 8.0/6

Citroën:
- Meeke should be strong, but can equally end up in the wine ranks. So its a fight for the podium, or taking the extended tour;) 8.5/5
- Østberg surprisingly good, although limited footage, and only dry weather. But I don't think I have seen him so Loeb-ish on tarmac before - could we be in for a surprise? 8.0/9

Hyundai - I think Hyundai could make a very positive result.
- Sordo, looks very good. Has been a little unprecice at a previous tarmac test, but looked better now. But the footage was not the best to make the call. But could be in for a podium fight. 8.7/7
- Neuville. Looks very strong, but a bit to eager. Will have to pace him self on the second run trough in the dry, and always in the wet. 8.0/5
- Bouffier. Tough very good, nothing is to be expected. A difficult rally, and every sound progression will be a victory in it self.

Ford:
- Hirvonen, looks surprisingly good, and precise. Could also fight above what have become expected of him this season. 8.0/9
- Evans. Have a very high risk of understeering off on the second runs, or in the wet. 7.0/3
- Kubica. Sometimes fast, but also unprecice and high risk. Will be quick in the dry, but quick and unsafe in the wet. 8.0/3

Speed ranking:
9.0:
Ogier

8.7:
Latvala
Sordo

8.5:
Neuville*
Meeke*

8.0:
Mikkelsen
Østberg
Hirvonen
Kubica*

7.0
Evans*

*High Risk

[txl]

Thanks, Mintexmemory. Actually I found http://www.rallyekarte.de/Rallye-Deutschland-2014 from the French - Rallye forum and this provides enough data to examine the stages.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is it right there are no live stages on TV apart from Sunday's PS ? Nothing else, even on German TV / internet ? :(

[306 Cosworth]

Is it right there are no live stages on TV apart from Sunday's PS ? Nothing else, even on German TV / internet ? :(

Nothing but the power stage in WRC+

[SubaruNorway]

Pretty incredible, Breen can't start.

https://www.facebook.com/TACrally/photos/a.181134701965679.47661.181112608634555/680361542042990/?type=1&theater

[satnav]

Yes a stewards decision tonight
http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2014/static/191/Stewards_Decision_1.pdf

Just sums up the WRC really

[Mintexmemory]

Yes a stewards decision tonight
http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2014/static/191/Stewards_Decision_1.pdf

Just sums up the WRC really

Amazed that Timo (got it in the arse) put his signature to it !!

[AndyRAC]

Nothing but the power stage in WRC+

Thats poor really. One stage live? What is the reason?

[jonkka]

Just sums up the WRC really

What do you mean, exactly?

[Juha_Koo]

Yes a stewards decision tonight
http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2014/static/191/Stewards_Decision_1.pdf

Just sums up the WRC really

"Just sums up the WRC really"

What do you mean? I was very very surprised that Breen even went to Germany. Then I was again surprised to see test/recce footage of him wearing a back brace. Germany is perhaps one of the most cruel rallies when having a back issues, lots of really hard bumps and "cuvettes". In my opinion it is right decision, especially taken into account that it's based on not only one, but TWO medical professionals.

[eib1]

SD first pass

Latvala
Meeke+0.4
Neuville+1.0
Ogier+1.3
Sordo+2.8
Kubica +4.8

[eib1]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvjDvnhIMAAJJk3.jpg

[KKS]

not bad... but all speed will be shown ( or not) on 2nd pass

[eib1]

Neuville rolled

[Juha_Koo]

Neuville rolled

Rolled 6-7 times down the wineyard, Hartusvuori info.

[megadrive]

how badly damaged the car?

[makinen_fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvjVH14CEAAlLgw.jpg

[eib1]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvjW4cDIYAAydSs.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvjXMXAIMAALh-P.jpg:large

[rage82]

how badly damaged the car?
No information about the car. Hyundai must check it in SP but after 6-7 rolls could have some troubles with the rollcage.
From Hartusvuori twitter: https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/502389709759578112/photo/1

[Mintexmemory]

No information about the car. Hyundai must check it in SP but after 6-7 rolls could have some troubles with the rollcage.
From Hartusvuori twitter: https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/502389709759578112/photo/1

Some editing of Pickems may be required if Thierry is a n/s or will Hyundai remove Sordo or Bouffier and give the car to Pinkspecs?

[N.O.T]

will Hyundai remove Sordo or Bouffier and give the car to Pinkspecs?

Are you serious ?

[6789]

Are you serious ?

Surely cross entering of cars is not allowed?

[Lundefaret]

Quick and very informal analyzing of the drivers based on the footage of the testing:

I have given scores based on speed and risk level, where a 10/10 would be the perfect score.
The speed would indicate the possible pace, and the risk the possibility for keeping up that speed during the whole event.

First: A lot of very good driving. So the fight for the second place could be a close one;) Of course limited footage, so this is only based on what was available, but could give a reasonable prediction.

VW:
- Ogier in a class of his own. He is a VERY strong favorite for the win. Especially if the weather turns wet. 9.0/8
- Latvala looks on the pace, but not as precise as Ogier. But clearly on a mission. The trick, as always, for Latvala is what has the win in Finland done for his psyche, will this be good or bad? Could fight for second. 8.7/7
- Mikkelsen. Looks very good, should be in the fight for the podium. 8.0/6

Citroën:
- Meeke should be strong, but can equally end up in the wine ranks. So its a fight for the podium, or taking the extended tour;) 8.5/5
- Østberg surprisingly good, although limited footage, and only dry weather. But I don't think I have seen him so Loeb-ish on tarmac before - could we be in for a surprise? 8.0/9

Hyundai - I think Hyundai could make a very positive result.
- Sordo, looks very good. Has been a little unprecice at a previous tarmac test, but looked better now. But the footage was not the best to make the call. But could be in for a podium fight. 8.7/7
- Neuville. Looks very strong, but a bit to eager. Will have to pace him self on the second run trough in the dry, and always in the wet. 8.0/5
- Bouffier. Tough very good, nothing is to be expected. A difficult rally, and every sound progression will be a victory in it self.

Ford:
- Hirvonen, looks surprisingly good, and precise. Could also fight above what have become expected of him this season. 8.0/9
- Evans. Have a very high risk of understeering off on the second runs, or in the wet. 7.0/3
- Kubica. Sometimes fast, but also unprecice and high risk. Will be quick in the dry, but quick and unsafe in the wet. 8.0/3

Speed ranking:
9.0:
Ogier

8.7:
Latvala
Sordo

8.5:
Neuville*
Meeke*

8.0:
Mikkelsen
Østberg
Hirvonen
Kubica*

7.0
Evans*

*High Risk


Listed Neuville as "High Risk" after watching testing footage. But did not expect him to go off this soon.
Bad for Hyundai and the rally if he is not able to start.

[thuGG]

http://kibicrajdowy.pl/files/shak10.jpg

[Mintexmemory]

Surely cross entering of cars is not allowed?

I don't know - Hyundai have 3 cars and 3 crews, if they only have 2 cars surely they can decide which of the 3 crews can use them - engine usage notwithstanding. Some whizzkid can show us the FIA reg that prohibits this no doubt.

[eib1]

wrc2
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvjqZ7WIEAAv7SL.png

[Nornbugger]

I don't know - Hyundai have 3 cars and 3 crews, if they only have 2 cars surely they can decide which of the 3 crews can use them - engine usage notwithstanding. Some whizzkid can show us the FIA reg that prohibits this no doubt.

Why would they want to replace Sordo or Bouffier for this event? On or off the road Neuville wasnt going to blow either of these pair away on German tar

[irish_tiger]

Why would they want to replace Sordo or Bouffier for this event? On or off the road Neuville wasnt going to blow either of these pair away on German tar
What did Neuville do in this event last year ? - did he not come close to winning ?

[jonkka]

I don't know - Hyundai have 3 cars and 3 crews, if they only have 2 cars surely they can decide which of the 3 crews can use them - engine usage notwithstanding. Some whizzkid can show us the FIA reg that prohibits this no doubt.

Here comes the kid with whizz...

21.2 AMENDMENTS ON THE ENTRY FORM
A competitor may freely replace the car declared on the entry form with another from the same group and the same class, up to the moment of scrutineering.

Scrutineering was held yesterday so if Neuville's car is not declared OK to start, he's out.

[EightGear]

What did Neuville do in this event last year ? - did he not come close to winning ?
So how about Sordo? ;)

[Mintexmemory]

Here comes the kid with whizz...

21.2 AMENDMENTS ON THE ENTRY FORM
A competitor may freely replace the car declared on the entry form with another from the same group and the same class, up to the moment of scrutineering.


Scrutineering was held yesterday so if Neuville's car is not declared OK to start, he's out.

Thanks J - but that is open to interpretation - if there is no mention of the chassis number or national registration number on the form then there is no change of car, it's still a scruiteneered Hyundai i20 WRC. As I read it, if say Bouffier had dinged his Fiesta on the Monte tests, beyond repair, a week before scruitineering and was unable to obtain another Fiesta he could change the entry to any other A8 car he could find, say a DS3.
As to why Hyundai might want to do that, despite the quality of the other team members - Neuville may just have a contract clause that guarantees him a start whenever possible.
Anyone know the level of detail on the entry form?

[wwbroe]

Apparently Hyundai just declared that Neuville will start the rally for sure.

[Jafry]

Photos from shakedown: http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=1292

[eib1]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvj6jUcCMAArcrL.jpg:large

[jonkka]

Thanks J - but that is open to interpretation - if there is no mention of the chassis number or national registration number on the form then there is no change of car, it's still a scruiteneered Hyundai i20 WRC. As I read it, if say Bouffier had dinged his Fiesta on the Monte tests, beyond repair, a week before scruitineering and was unable to obtain another Fiesta he could change the entry to any other A8 car he could find, say a DS3.
As to why Hyundai might want to do that, despite the quality of the other team members - Neuville may just have a contract clause that guarantees him a start whenever possible.
Anyone know the level of detail on the entry form?

That's later in the regs:

26.1.6 Scrutineers will require the car to be identified.

Your interpretation of Bouffier as an example is correct. But on the latter part, entry form does not identify the car, that's done on scrutineering and after that it's the car, no longer a car, and can't be swapped.

[Mintexmemory]

Thanks J - I can't recall a previous occasion where a team leader has binned it in S/d so badly they couldn't start. Appears an academic question now.

[jonkka]

Luckily yes, I really want to see how Neuville goes there.

[Lundefaret]

In 2003 Subaru Team Leader Petter Solberg crashed on shakedown on The Tour De Corse.
Prodrive managed to fix the car over night, and Petter came back to win the rally trough a great adrenalin driven drive, and a set of Pirelli tires that worked excellent in the wet conditions. This again lead to Petter claming the WRC title in 2003, something that is still etched in the minds of us that are rally crazy Norwegians;)
Could Neuville repeat the feat of winning after a SD-crash?

[Rallyper]

I´m worried about right door opens so fast. For sure some impacts make doors open but on a WRC car I think that is an issue taken care of when building car.

[N.O.T]

Thanks J - I can't recall a previous occasion where a team leader has binned it in S/d so badly they couldn't start. Appears an academic question now.

Martin did it a few years back in Sweden i think.

to think that a manufacturer would replace a driver with another because of a crash is plain stupid though...

edit: in 2002...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/world_rally/1794465.stm

[Barreis]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115465

[Fast Eddie WRC]

With this being such a technical event where errors are punished hard, its possible another unexpected winner will happen.
Hope its Meeke.

[stefanvv]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115465

"It just needs some panels, doors, maybe wings, a windscreen and a little bit of tape and it'll be fine.

Yeah, nothing special.... especially the tape part

[Eli]

With this being such a technical event where errors are punished hard, its possible another unexpected winner will happen.
Hope its Meeke.
let's hope he doesn't crash

[A FONDO]

With this being such a technical event where errors are punished hard, its possible another unexpected winner will happen.
Hope its Meeke.

With this being such a technical event where errors are punished hard, its impossible that winner will be Meeke.

[306 Cosworth]

Why? It's similar to Finland, where a mistake is punished hard, but Meeke made none of them in Finland, and I expect the same for Germany. He'll finish top 3 again.

[Rallyper]

Dont forget, this is tarmac. You´ll be punished much faster...

[stefanvv]

Meeke is a new man since Finland, still I think it'll be very hard for him to win even if both lead VW crash. Fingers crossed for him anyway, he deserves some good results

[Eli]

Meeke is a new man since Finland, still I think it'll be very hard for him to win even if both lead VW crash. Fingers crossed for him anyway, he deserves some good results
yes, he also deserves to continue in Citroen next year alongside Ostberg.

[stefanvv]

yes, he also deserves to continue in Citroen next year alongside Ostberg.

Sure, if Citroen are not rushing to find the new young Loeb, his seat seem certain

[Tom206wrc]

wrc2
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvjqZ7WIEAAv7SL.png


Problem for Martin Koci during the SD ??? :confused:

[JieM]

Short video of shakedown -> http://youtu.be/UwAzPD4tr7U

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I wonder if Ogier & JML will push to the max for the win as solid points can still win the Manufacturers Championship here at VW's home event...

[stefanvv]

For VW will be great victory if they win the Rally & title here

[Fast Eddie WRC]

For VW will be great victory if they win the Rally & title here

True, but they wont want a repeat of last year for sure.

They might setle for good finishes and the Manu title here..

[noel157]

"Just sums up the WRC really"

What do you mean? I was very very surprised that Breen even went to Germany. Then I was again surprised to see test/recce footage of him wearing a back brace. Germany is perhaps one of the most cruel rallies when having a back issues, lots of really hard bumps and "cuvettes". In my opinion it is right decision, especially taken into account that it's based on not only one, but TWO medical professionals.

Would tend to agree.
If he's wearing a back brace that is likely for protection to existing damage or for protecting an easily injured back. With his ERC campaign it perhaps, in retrospect, wasn't a wise move entering Germany rather than recovering. A shame for him. The stewarts may have done him a favour in the long run.

[Munkvy]

Thanks J - but that is open to interpretation - if there is no mention of the chassis number or national registration number on the form then there is no change of car, it's still a scruiteneered Hyundai i20 WRC. As I read it, if say Bouffier had dinged his Fiesta on the Monte tests, beyond repair, a week before scruitineering and was unable to obtain another Fiesta he could change the entry to any other A8 car he could find, say a DS3.
As to why Hyundai might want to do that, despite the quality of the other team members - Neuville may just have a contract clause that guarantees him a start whenever possible.
Anyone know the level of detail on the entry form?

As a scrutineer (although not at FIA level), I can say that each car has a logbook which details the things that identify the car, such as chassis number and roll cage number, as well as any homologation details), so that would be what is used to identify the car. After scrutineering the car could not change as it no longer matches the details that it was entered under or scrutinized for.

However, given that MSport builds their own cages and have been able to repair damaged cages for cars under Rally2 previously, you would assume that Hyundai build their own cages too, so could repair any damage on site, given their HQ is in the neighborhood. Unlike Finland, where perhaps they had to travel too far to get the parts to repair the cage? I don't imagine it's normal for them to carry spare roll cage parts? But you never know.

[satnav]

"Just sums up the WRC really"

What do you mean? .
I mean they had ample opportunities before 20.30 hrs on the eve of the rally to inform Craig Breen that he would not be allowed to start , would it not have been better for Dr Jean Duby who is the permanent FIA Medical Delegate to inform Craig after Finland that in his opinion he will not be allowed to start in Germany therefore saving everyone instead of burying his head in the sand until the night before the start of the rally.
It's not that I am questioning him being allowed to start the rally it is the way in which it was carried out.

[Mk2 RS2000]

I mean they had ample opportunities before 20.30 hrs on the eve of the rally to inform Craig Breen that he would not be allowed to start , would it not have been better for Dr Jean Duby who is the permanent FIA Medical Delegate to inform Craig after Finland that in his opinion he will not be allowed to start in Germany therefore saving everyone instead of burying his head in the sand until the night before the start of the rally.
It's not that I am questioning him being allowed to start the rally it is the way in which it was carried out.

He, like every other competitor who has been in an injury accident has until Documentation to produce the appropriate medical clearance certificates.

[rallyfiend]

I mean they had ample opportunities before 20.30 hrs on the eve of the rally to inform Craig Breen that he would not be allowed to start , would it not have been better for Dr Jean Duby who is the permanent FIA Medical Delegate to inform Craig after Finland that in his opinion he will not be allowed to start in Germany therefore saving everyone instead of burying his head in the sand until the night before the start of the rally.
It's not that I am questioning him being allowed to start the rally it is the way in which it was carried out.

the Stewards Decision quite clearly says that he did not provide the necessary documents to allow him to start the event.

How is this anyone's fault but that of the driver?

[wwbroe]

I don't know if it was posted before, but here is roll of Neuville: http://youtu.be/i5xx47w1g98

[eib1]

ready for action
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvny9cICUAA8yAl.jpg

[jonkka]

I don't even see the tape :)

[wwbroe]

Not too many members awake? Live action starting in about 8 minutes.

[Eli]

Will be very interesting weekend

[wwbroe]

Seems like there is difference in itinary on wrc.com and other sites, about 5 minutes later, so start at 8h43?

[KKS]

ready for action
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvny9cICUAA8yAl.jpg

Well done Hyndai!

[KKS]

And I can't get a split link from Ctoren site directly... so must create his by own hands :) here it is
http://www.citroenracing.com/en/live-results/?id=7418&idEpr=SS1&typf=split&car=1

[KKS]

hehe JML faster on splits.... good start of the rally :)

[A FONDO]

Not too many members awake? Live action starting in about 8 minutes.

People are on a vacation, mostly. I will wait a few hours for the loop to end and then see the stage times at once.

[KKS]

two wheels run excursion for Latvala.... pushing style! But keep on ther road plz!

[eib1]

spin for Meeke
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvn-bluCMAIORmS.jpg

[jonkka]

Quite big gaps already

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke spin - not a great start...

His car is sporting some rear panel damage and a squeezed exhaust tail pipe. "It happened near the midpoint on a tight right-hander. There was some gravel on the road side, we got the back wheel on it and spun 360 degrees. Not the start I wanted but the car feels fine."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke's team-mate in contrast having a great start !

Ostberg: "It's the first time I've enjoyed a tarmac stage. The car is fantastic. I'm not using the potential but I'm enjoying it."

[Mirek]

Looks like it's going to be another VW show...

[jonkka]

Yeah, didn't really except anything else.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sordo goes 4th fastest according to times posted on Twitter... websites still dont show him... :rolleyes:

EDIT - finally now showing.

[Andre Oliveira]

WRC+ give us the times many seconds before the web site. Great if in future, shows more than the WRC cars.

[Mintexmemory]

WRC+ give us the times many seconds before the web site. Great if in future, shows more than the WRC cars.

Clearly they have to make it look like a superior service - in fact they've degraded the speed of the ordinary site! Be a good chap and post the important splits for the benefit of us refusniks ;)

[wwbroe]

Latvalla 1,9 sec slower at second split

[KKS]

Ostberg must use all gears to be faster then VW's

[kirungi okwogera]

I'm just thankful for the Citroën site - they seem to be minutes ahead of the wrc.com (non-plus) site.

I must say very unsurprising results for now but many stone walls and steins to go. I'll be interested to see how quick Meeke and Hirvonen are if they can keep their cars on the road. Predictions from Lundefaret at SD that Hirvonen was looking good - slightly surprising given his year.

Ogier dominating SS2 splits...

[wwbroe]

JML losing 1,7 sec at end of stage

[wwbroe]

Mikkelsen allready losing about 12 sec!!

[kirungi okwogera]

This rally and France seem to have crazy mud/cutting - early running guys must have an advantage. Not that they need one!

[wwbroe]

Quite big differences in times, Ostberg another 2 sec slowers as Mikkelsen

[wwbroe]

Third time for Meeke, best of the rest.

[jonkka]

Lot's of number nines in Ogier's time... 9m 39,9s

[wwbroe]

Great quote by Chris at end of stage: Ogier wan't complaining about his road position this time i suppose? Road seems to be very muddy after first cars came trough.

[Juha_Koo]

LOL, Meeke asking Donaldson "Was Ogier complaining about his road position now?" :D

[Mintexmemory]

Third time for Meeke, best of the rest.

This is the expected Finland form continuing, I can only think VW 1-2 are on softer tyres than the others for that level of difference already, even with the crap from the cuts.

[thuGG]

F***ing Live Timing...

[KKS]

Citroen site was down :(

[kirungi okwogera]

This is the expected Finland form continuing, I can only think VW 1-2 are on softer tyres than the others for that level of difference already, even with the crap from the cuts.

It really is a huge difference for 16km... there are two tyre options here right?

[MTA]

Does anyone know if it is possible to listen to Rally Radio by Android phone otherwise then the WRC app?
It shuts down for me all the time and you have to restart it , which is quite annoying when you miss half of the drivers.

[Ucci]

VW boys demolished all others on second stage. What is doing Bouffier? I expected more from him..maybe he is still not waken up...

[wwbroe]

Best time in WRC2 goes to Sousa, a little bit surprising but all very close in this category

[kirungi okwogera]

WRC2 is the joint right now... five guys in a row all within 2 seconds of each others times on this stage. Tanak, Nasser, Sousa, Chardonnet, Tidemand... ha, rally radio just noticed too.

[Andre Oliveira]

Does anyone know if it is possible to listen to Rally Radio by Android phone otherwise then the WRC app?
It shuts down for me all the time and you have to restart it , which is quite annoying when you miss half of the drivers.

iRally app

[Mintexmemory]

Hope that all forum members dashing from Sauerthal to Moseland are safely in position now - Let's see if tyres are making a difference, still a very cool (temperature) morning in Germany

[wwbroe]

Great time in WRC2 by Julien Maurin, beating all the others by quite a big margin.

[wwbroe]

In WRC4 the Opel Adam's are dominating, quite far in front of first Fiesta wich is Quentin Gilbert.

[wwbroe]

Latvalla 0.2 sec faster as Seb on first split stage 3

[rage82]

Camilli in D-mack trophy (his first wrc rally)with Fiesta R2 is incredibly fast in ss2, just 0.1 sec. slower than the fastest JWRC in R3 machinery!
Another very promising young guy from France it looks like!
Edit: my bad he's in JWRC driving also Citroen DS3 R3 but still impresive faster than Lefebvre.

[andyone]

soo which live stage is being shown today?

[wwbroe]

Ogier kicks back, now 1,2 sec faster as JML at second split

[kirungi okwogera]

Sordo pissed off at running behind privateers, Melicharek Protasov etc.: "It's incredible, the corners are so muddy and slippery. I cannot start in these f***ing conditions! Here we are fighting to do something good but we cannot do it behind these cars."

Why is he seeded so far down?

[wwbroe]

JML 0.3 sec faster at the end of the stage !!!

[wwbroe]

Mikkelsen loosing another 14 sec compared to his collegues at VW

[jonkka]

Why is he seeded so far down?

Championship order. Those guys have points, Sordo does not.

[wwbroe]

Damage at Mikkelsen's car, he hit something apparently

[kirungi okwogera]

Championship order. Those guys have points, Sordo does not.

Oh yes, makes sense. Hard to imagine Melicharek having more points than Sordo!

[Ucci]

Sordo pissed off at running behind privateers, Melicharek Protasov etc.: "It's incredible, the corners are so muddy and slippery. I cannot start in these f***ing conditions! Here we are fighting to do something good but we cannot do it behind these cars."

Why is he seeded so far down?

He wouldn't win anyway...let's wait for the afternoon loop of stages...it will be dirty also for front runners....

[wwbroe]

Meeke looking quite good on splits

[EightGear]

Camilli in D-mack trophy (his first wrc rally)with Fiesta R2 is incredibly fast in ss2, just 0.1 sec. slower than the fastest JWRC in R3 machinery!
Another very promising young guy from France it looks like!
Isn't he in JWRC too?

[kirungi okwogera]

Mads is hilarious, delighted to finish the stage without retiring - apparently he crashes here a lot.

[kirungi okwogera]

He wouldn't win anyway...let's wait for the afternoon loop of stages...it will be dirty also for front runners....

Yeah too much time lost for many guys this morning - you can see the difference with WRC2 and WRC3, much closer pack.

[wwbroe]

Third best time for Chris, but still loosing about 5 sec

[wwbroe]

Kubica stopped in stage?

[Eli]

Sordo pissed off at running behind privateers, Melicharek Protasov etc.: "It's incredible, the corners are so muddy and slippery. I cannot start in these f***ing conditions! Here we are fighting to do something good but we cannot do it behind these cars."

Why is he seeded so far down?
because he's last in the championship, mind you, he's yet to finish in the points this year. (or a rally for that matter)

[wwbroe]

Another off for Robert Kubica, moving again but not at full speed

[wwbroe]

Another disappointing time for Bouffier.

Edit: he is complaining a little bit about having a gravel gearbox, so loosing too much time in the technical sections

[Mintexmemory]

Game on though! As for the start order, I think Sordo would be a lot closer if not stuck behind Melicharek. There should be a 110% rule applied in s/d to deal with such entries. I'll never forgive him for precipitating the scrapping of the second Turini stage this year (bad memories of standing in pouring rain for 6 hours only to see a drive through!)

[wwbroe]

Kubica loosing about 4 min after his crash.

[Mirek]

Game on though! As for the start order, I think Sordo would be a lot closer if not stuck behind Melicharek. There should be a 110% rule applied in s/d to deal with such entries. I'll never forgive him for precipitating the scrapping of the second Turini stage this year (bad memories of standing in pouring rain for 6 hours only to see a drive through!)

First of all Sordo is not running behind Melichárek but behind Protasov and second he has so far never got even cose to his rear wing. They start with two minutes gap and so far even one minute would be enough.

[kirungi okwogera]

I don't know if you can blame Melicharek himself for Turini entirely! I'm sure Sordo would be faster, but Neuville has been saying the Hyundai is not at the rally-winning stage of development yet so I doubt we'd see him fighting with Latvala and Ogier today as he could in the Citroen.

[kirungi okwogera]

Then again, good time for Sordo on this stage!

[Doon]

If Meeke holds position today, running 3rd on the road tomorrow he should be quick far quicker. Mind you they are in Baumholder tomorrow, where I doubt as much cutting goes on!!

Anyway, good to see he's taking a decent amount of time out of his team mate.

[Ucci]

Kubica loosing about 4 min after his crash.

here goes my pickem favourite....now I can go to the beach and enjoy sun&see(I'm on vacation....)

[EightGear]

I'm very surprised by the pace of young Mats van den Brand. On SS2 he is I think 3rd fastest of the Fiesta R2s in his first WRC rally. He was matching Gilbert untill split 3.

[jonkka]

If Meeke holds position today, running 3rd on the road tomorrow he should be quick far quicker.

They'll run in reverse order tomorrow, you know.

[JTGANG]

First of all Sordo is not running behind Melichárek but behind Protasov and second he has so far never got even cose to his rear wing. They start with two minutes gap and so far even one minute would be enough.

Sordo runs behind both Protasov and Melicharek but i think his problem is not the 2 mins gap but their drivings lines which makes road even more muddy and slippery

[rage82]

Isn't he in JWRC too?
Yes he is, it was my bad. Still he's a fast guy i his first event.

[jonkka]

Sordo runs behind both Protasov and Melicharek but i think his problem is not the 2 mins gap but their drivings lines which makes road even more muddy and slippery

Sordo's problem is that he's 14th on the road, not Protasov's or Melicharek's lines.

[MTA]

iRally app

I just get the message "No Radio Channels currentli live" with IRally app.

[Andre Oliveira]

For me works well (iOS). Try TuneIn app

[kirungi okwogera]

Sordo's problem is that he's 14th on the road, not Protasov's or Melicharek's lines.

Yeah, it could be 13 Loebs in front of him and he'd still have been slow on the second stage - I think that was his complaint though, being so far back, not the fact that some of the guys ahead of him aren't factory drivers.

[mousti]

I'm very surprised by the pace of young Mats van den Brand. On SS2 he is I think 3rd fastest of the Fiesta R2s in his first WRC rally. He was matching Gilbert untill split 3.
Mats has very good potentional and need to do more events abroad and not in Holland. He is already faster than van der Marel who is way more experienced.

And yes Camilli is doing JWRC in DS3 not Dmack Fiesta.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 5 met Tapatalk

[Lundefaret]

Tough only a quick analyzis, the predictions have been quit correct so far;)

I really enjoy that Latvala is going so good. In our "Nose End First threehouse" we have talked about the possibility of Latvala challenging Ogier if he can contain him self a bit on the slow stuff. Really good that he now puts preassure on Ogier, very good for the championship!

Tough he is a high risk driver, and have to have all his stars alligned correctly if he is going to finnish this rally, one cant go unimpressed by the pure speed of Kris Meeke. And the slight madness in his own self belief;) (I mean this in the best possible way:)
But then again, he has done the Baja 1000, solo, ON A MOTORBIKE!!!

Sordo will be fast as soon as his road possition is better (I did a big misjudgement in not taking in account how much this would count for in time loss on some of these stages), and once again it is proven that the Hyundai is a fast car.

- Kubica off, not surprising. He is a marvelous driver, but needs to unlock some of the secrets of rallying.
- Neuville off on SD was not surprising in context of the test video.
- Meeke off (only a spin) was expected.

Ogier is overdriving a bit. He did this in the Helsinki Battle (after the very good run of Neuville), and in Finland (after preassure from Latvala), and now. He is not unaflicted by preassure in the way Loeb was, something that is very good for the championship, because then the other drivers can learn that he is not indistructable (at least not in one single rally, tough VERY difficult to beat over a whole season.)

Very exiting so far!

[COD]

They'll run in reverse order tomorrow, you know.

Not in tarmac rallies

[Mintexmemory]

Yeah, it could be 13 Loebs in front of him and he'd still have been slow on the second stage - I think that was his complaint though, being so far back, not the fact that some of the guys ahead of him aren't factory drivers.

Mirek knew very well the point I was trying to make ;)
For tarmac rallies it isn't good enough to use 'championship' order. Melichareks points were gained by being slower than WRC2 and just surviving on the Monte. Protasov's points were WRC 2. For them to start ahead of the last year's winner is a complete farce. I'm not saying Sordo would challenge VW but he's already quicker than the team leader despite the handicap!

[N.O.T]

Kubica just a disappointment once more... nothing for him to show apart from slow speed and crashes. I was expecting him to be much faster here.

He just does not have the ability to do anything taken seriously at the top of the sport. He is a far better addition than those useless nobodies with sunglasses but that is that and nothing more unfortunately.

[N.O.T]

just 3 stages and we have nice battles for 1st and places 3 to 9 are quite open...

[MikeD]

Kubica just a disappointment once more... nothing for him to show apart from slow speed and crashes. I was expecting him to be much faster here.

He just does not have the ability to do anything taken seriously at the top of the sport. He is a far better addition than those useless nobodies with sunglasses but that is that and nothing more unfortunately.

Yes, I am affraid you are right. Think it's "game over" for Kubica in the WRC.

[Mintexmemory]

Ogier is overdriving a bit. He did this in the Helsinki Battle (after the very good run of Neuville), and in Finland (after preassure from Latvala), and now. He is not unaflicted by preassure in the way Loeb was, something that is very good for the championship, because then the other drivers can learn that he is not indistructable (at least not in one single rally, tough VERY difficult to beat over a whole season.)

so far!

a) Loeb was so good he was rarely under pressure
b) He was able to avoid pressure from able team mates when it suited by team orders (Sordo) or derating an engine (Ogier)
c) He wasn't immune though as the last ever rally showed - It was just very rare.

[Mirek]

Sordo's problem is that he's 14th on the road, not Protasov's or Melicharek's lines.

Exactly.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

All good so far for VW.. but will the team stop them fighting for the win at some point to take the Makers title here at home..

[eib1]

Kubica
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvovi9IIAAAu7oh.jpg


Mikkelsen
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvot4FVCYAESGkR.jpg

[Lundefaret]

a) Loeb was so good he was rarely under pressure
b) He was able to avoid pressure from able team mates when it suited by team orders (Sordo) or derating an engine (Ogier)
c) He wasn't immune though as the last ever rally showed - It was just very rare.

A big part of Loebs success was that he was able to be contempt with good point scoring positions to save the championship. That way it was difficult to put pressure on Loeb, because You needed to put pressure regarding the championship, not only one rally. But shore, he had some cracks in his armour, tough very small and far between;)

Ogier is of a different type of psychology, much more like Walter Röhrl. Its not only about winning, its about humiliating Your opponents, and trying to beat them with minutes. This I really like, because it paints the profile of a very colorfull personality, but it will off course in some sircumstances be a weakness.

But the fact that Latvala is pressuring Ogier will get spiral starting. The reaction from Ogier is over driving a bit, wich loses him a bit of time, wich then can lead him to over drive a bit more etc. We are off cource talking about minute details here, and that is also why it is difficult for Ogier to be concious of it.

Lets hope this Latvala vs Ogier duell goes on for not only this rally, but a lot longer, and lets hope that some of the other guys reaches their level in a consistent manner. The cars are so similar now that it is possible to win in all of them, so everything is in place to create an exiting championship:)

[Salist]

Neuville shakedown crash video:

http://youtu.be/jgL3wgVrcAo

[MikeD]

A big part of Loebs success was that he was able to be contempt with good point scoring positions to save the championship.

Pfff,

Loeb won 78 of the 156 WRC rallies he enteres. That's 50,0%. That's not really being "contempt" with good point scoring.

To compare the Valentino Rossi has a winning-% of 33,9% - Michael Schumacher has a winning-% of 29,5% and none of them has ever been accused of being "contempt".

PS: And stop talking down to people as if you know more about rally than people in here.

[GallardoGT]

Kubica just a disappointment once more... nothing for him to show apart from slow speed and crashes. I was expecting him to be much faster here.

He just does not have the ability to do anything taken seriously at the top of the sport. He is a far better addition than those useless nobodies with sunglasses but that is that and nothing more unfortunately.

Rally is all about multitasking with the pacenotes and it seems Kubica still can't deal with it. My advice for him is to practice pacenotes in Richard Burns Rally over and over again.

[kirungi okwogera]

Rally is all about multitasking with the pacenotes and it seems Kubica still can't deal with it. My advice for him is to practice pacenotes in Richard Burns Rally over and over again.

Wasn't he one of the top Polish RBR players?

[GallardoGT]

Yes now you say so. Maybe he knew those stages.

[Tom206wrc]

Eric Camilli :bounce: :cool:

[jonkka]

Not in tarmac rallies

Has that changed? I can't find anything on rules (though my copy is from December, not the latest)?

45.3 START ORDER FOR SUBSEQUENT DAYS
45.3.1 The start order for the first section on subsequent second days shall be based on the classification at the finish of the final special stage of the previous day excluding super special stages if run at the end of the day.
45.3.2 P1 and P2 drivers
P1 and P2 drivers shall normally re-start as a merged group in reverse order according to their overall classification.

[jonkka]

The cars are so similar now that it is possible to win in all of them

If that is so, why VW has uninterrupted streak of 12 consecutive wins whereas the next best record is just 8 consecutive for Citroen in 2011? And already this year they have five 1-2 wins... No, cars aren't quite so similar in performance.

[Ucci]

If that is so, why VW has uninterrupted streak of 12 consecutive wins whereas the next best record is just 8 consecutive for Citroen in 2011? And already this year they have five 1-2 wins... No, cars aren't quite so similar in performance.
Lucky you...it seems you have tested DS3, Polo, Fiesta.....share some images, please....