Rallye Deutschland 2014

[wwbroe]

Neuville fastest in 24.40.9

[Tom206wrc]

Östberg back in the race vs Evans and Hirvonen ;)
Neuville flying :eek:

[rage82]

Question, are both Citroen drivers on a 1 year/season contract?

Yes they are! Decision will be made in the end of October according to Yves Matton.He said that in next 5 rallies starting from Finland he's expecting both drivers to show some speed and fight for positions. So until now I suppose Kris is doing very well and if he finish Germany in a such good position I think he will have his chances for next year contract already.

[jonkka]

Interesting - Bouffier reports that only 5% of the stage or so was damp. Yet drivers or hard tyres aren't making that much headway...

[wwbroe]

Neuville in front of Mikkelsen now, beating Andreas by 12,9

[Tom206wrc]

Neuville fastest in 24.40.9

Meeke seems slightly faster ;)

[Frostmourne]

Rally-Base is really slow with stage times, and not showing comments. Any recommendation for other websites? I just know the official wrc, rally-base and ewrc-results.

[wwbroe]

Sordo is 5,8 sec slower as teammate Neuville

[jonkka]

Amman, Jordan... WRC fans are really coming all over the world!

[wwbroe]

Neuville up to third now!!!

[wwbroe]

Neuville is taking n4,5 sec from Meeke

[HaCo]

Neuville up to third now!!!


Yes!!!!

Also AWESOME for Hyundai!

[wwbroe]

Latvalla fastest, 0,7 sec faster as Thierry

[EightGear]

Yes!!!!

Also AWESOME for Hyundai!
He takes it from Sordo, so for Hyundai it doesn't really change anything.

[jonkka]

No but it proves Hyundai's speed.

[Tom206wrc]

Let's see if Camilli can hold on Lefèbvre and Riedemann on this huge and unknown for him stage ;)

[Mirek]

Rally-Base is really slow with stage times, and not showing comments. Any recommendation for other websites? I just know the official wrc, rally-base and ewrc-results.

I asked the guy in charge of rally-base today to get things right. There was some technical issue but it shall be fixed now.

[Rally Talent]

No but it proves Hyundai's speed.

Hyundai's showing some really good pace, but I assume JML is not going 110% at the moment (still goin fastest though).

[Tom206wrc]

Chardonnet and Maurin are currently the fastest WRC2 on SS10 :bounce:

[Lundefaret]

I hope we now can agree to the Hyundai being a very fast WRC car. Ogier, or Latvala for that matter, would win in a Hyundai (or a Ford, or a Citroen). Its up to the drivers, and thats the way it should be:)

[WUff1]

I didn´t expect much more from Bouffier - Monte is his home rally, a specialist event. And his position (still in the top ten, but no chance for top five) is where top ERC drivers come to stay when competing in WRC without too much WRC-experience (Breen, Hänninen with Fiesta last year etc.)

[wwbroe]

Maurin taking the lead in WRC2 after Pantzerplatte, he was on hard tyres also.

[Tom206wrc]

Maurin in the lead of WRC2 :p:

[HaCo]

No but it proves Hyundai's speed.
Exactly.


I hope we now can agree to the Hyundai being a very fast WRC car. Ogier, or Latvala for that matter, would win in a Hyundai (or a Ford, or a Citroen). Its up to the drivers, and thats the way it should be:)
I agree.


Hope Neuville can keep it on the road. 3rd and 4th would be perfect boost for the team. He can attack in France later if he wants.

[Frostmourne]

I asked the guy in charge of rally-base today to get things right. There was some technical issue but it shall be fixed now.

Rally-Base my favorite website to follow rallies in terms of layout design, but the last couple of rallies they were really slow, not showing any comments from drivers at all.. hope they will fix it, be fast and post comments from drivers.

[HaCo]

Maurin in the lead of WRC2 :p:

Maurin over the limit yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjNSq8k_6NA

[Mirek]

No but it proves Hyundai's speed.

Considering Fabia WRC performance over the years on Baumholder stages are those were it's a lot about suspension and little about power (mentioning Fabia WRC because I know how much worse engine then the rest it had).

[HaCo]

Rally-Base my favorite website to follow rallies in terms of layout design, but the last couple of rallies they were really slow, not showing any comments from drivers at all.. hope they will fix it, be fast and post comments from drivers.

I really like to use ewrc: http://ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=13899&s=65665&t=ADAC-Rallye-Deutschland-2014

- You have the comments from the drivers,
- Relevant pics from twitter.

[Tom206wrc]

Camilli is doing fantastic in JWRC !!!! He limits his loss of time on Lefèbvre despite his lack of knowledge(car and stage) :cool:

[Mintexmemory]

Not if Neuville and Meeke were in the VW!

[Tom206wrc]

No time for McCormack, Chardonnet and Camilli at the end of SS10 :confused:


Edit: accidents for Chardonnet and Camilli :(

[makinen_fan]

Rally-Base is really slow with stage times, and not showing comments. Any recommendation for other websites? I just know the official wrc, rally-base and ewrc-results.

http://www.citroenracing.com/en/live-results/?id=7418&idEpr=SS10&typf=both

[kirungi okwogera]

No time for McCormack, Chardonnet and Camilli at the end of SS10 :confused:


Edit: accidents for Chardonnet and Camilli :(

Crews OK. Really disappointing for both - Camilli was ahead of Reidemann even ignoring Reidemann's 20 sec penalty. Given Reidemann's skill and knowledge of the rally, that's a good achievement. I would've liked to see him finish first.

[noel157]

Is Marty McCormack out? Did he make it to end of stage?

[Astro83]

any live tv stages today on BT Sport??? Anyone know what time and so on?

Thanks! :)

[AndyRAC]

any live tv stages today on BT Sport??? Anyone know what time and so on?

Thanks! :)

No!! The only live stage this weekend on BTSport is the PowerStage.....pretty poor in my opinion. Live football takes priority....

[satnav]

Marty posted on Twitter Noel that he'd broke a steering arm so that's it over for today, back out tomorrow.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No!! The only live stage this weekend on BTSport is the PowerStage.....pretty poor in my opinion. Live football takes priority....

Its not BT's decision. There's no other live stages shown anywhere, even Germany or on WRC+.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke's doing well this morning to maintain the gap to 3rd. :)

'His time of 24m45.4s slots him between Sordo and Neuville in the stage results. It's a great result considering he's the only one of the three on the soft tyre.'
"The rear was sliding a lot. My engineer gave me a lot of valuable advice and I took that on board."

[Tom206wrc]

What happened to Quentin Gilbert again(didn't reach end of SS10) :confused:

[Lundefaret]

Meekes engineer is the legendary Didier Clement. Instrumental in Loebs wrc championships.
Mads engineer is Kevin Struyf, also a very very good engineer.

[HaCo]

The guys on hard tires were disadvantaged by the Off of Ogier. They could have one a lot more, certainly because the guys on softs were complaining about their tire wear.

[wwbroe]

The guys on hard tires were disadvantaged by the Off of Ogier. They could have one a lot more, certainly because the guys on softs were complaining about their tire wear.

I think there is a tyre-fitting zone before the stages of Panzerplatte, so it didn't make a difference.

[wwbroe]

Second pass in Stein & Wein is now live, Kubica allready on the stage.

[Andre Oliveira]

Who is Isolde Holderied co-driver?

[jonkka]

What? Is she entered?

[wwbroe]

What? Is she entered?

She is driving a GT86 or what is the name, as a zero car, but i don't know who is her codriver?

[jonkka]

I see...

Anyways, SS12 shortened:

SS12 UPDATE:
Peterberg will run this afternoon in a shortened format. The first pass this morning - as SS8 - was cancelled after Ogier’s Polo destroyed an Armco barrier near the start. On the repeat - as SS12 - crews will start from a new point after the damaged barrier, bringing the stage length down from 11.08km to 9.38km

[wwbroe]

Kubica is 6,3 sec faster as in first run, when he did besttime.

[arko5]

But rest of drivers are much better times...

[Andre Oliveira]

What? Is she entered?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10606029_825661967478852_7231754360797450804_n.jpg ?oh=6ea06c0f4dad62b78c8eab152c364b46&oe=546FDA3D&__gda__=1415693911_715f0b694f2941f46a9be88acfbcb72 c

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10603339_825316247513424_6616160187703528299_n.jpg ?oh=25ed34d31591119d11d466925d754398&oe=54781044


T.... Schmidt

[wwbroe]

Besttime for Prokop sofar, beating Kubica with 1,4sec

[jonkka]

I remember Holderied from 1997 Monte with big ST205 Celica... :)

[wwbroe]

Bouffier, one of the few on hard tyres, is setting new besttime of 10.07.7

[Andre Oliveira]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/1997/photos/avd_sth_hunsrck_rallye_1997/pfi_f1000032.jpg

In August 97

[wwbroe]

Ostberg another half a second faster :-)

[jonkka]

That was one pretty rally car... I mean ST205

[wwbroe]

Hirvonen trough in new besttime of 10.04.4

[Andre Oliveira]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZAhmLAqtRbI/UQwpFb29nkI/AAAAAAAARI0/Ez8cqn6IEhI/s1600/CARD+ISOLDE+HOLDERIED-AC+PAUWELS+TOYOTA+COROLLA+WRC+ACROPOLE+1998++FRENT E.jpg

[wwbroe]

Neuville looking very good again in splits

[wwbroe]

Wowh, Neuville trough in 10.00.8

[HaCo]

Wowh, Neuville trough in 10.00.8

Very good. Mikkelsen can't follow.

[N.O.T]

Latvala puts everyone in shame... i guess he is that much superior tarmac driver than Neuville and Sordo and the car has nothing to do with it...

[HaCo]

I think there is a tyre-fitting zone before the stages of Panzerplatte, so it didn't make a difference.

Do you think? It is not on the itinerary at least.

[wwbroe]

Problem for Meeke with puncture, or damaged rim

[HaCo]

Latvala puts everyone in shame... i guess he is that much superior tarmac driver than Neuville and Sordo and the car has nothing to do with it...

I have my doubts on that. Meeke under pressure.

[wwbroe]

Do you think? It is not on the itinerary at least.

No but i heard it at rallyradio, i am not sure about it tough.

[wwbroe]

Another besttime for JML, he doesn't look like cruising. Controlling at a very high speed.

[N.O.T]

Neuville 3 seconds off Meekes time ... nice battle... fastest time by the tarmac expert Latvala...

[jonkka]

fastest time by the tarmac expert Latvala...

He-hee...

[HaCo]

Another besttime for JML, he doesn't look like cruising. Controlling at a very high speed.

Only 1,7 faster, that is not really putting the rest in shame. Of course he is in the dirt.

[N.O.T]

Another besttime for JML, he doesn't look like cruising. Controlling at a very high speed.

sometimes it is easier to go at the pace you are used to... Loeb mentioned many times while ridiculing hordes to paper champions that when he tires to down his rythm it was easier to make a mistake.

[eib1]

Ogier
http://www.upload.ee/thumb/4224021/Screenshot_2014-08-23_15.33.jpg

[N.O.T]

He-hee...

It is all about the driver..... maaan

[jonkka]

It is all about the driver..... maaan

So I keep hearing

[Tom206wrc]

Sousa in SS11 :confused:

[Frostmourne]

sometimes it is easier to go at the pace you are used to... Loeb mentioned many times while ridiculing hordes to paper champions that when he tires to down his rythm it was easier to make a mistake.

That was Loeb. I hope that Jari wont take any risks. 50+ seconds is really a comfortable lead.

[jonkka]

sometimes it is easier to go at the pace you are used to... Loeb mentioned many times while ridiculing hordes to paper champions that when he tires to down his rythm it was easier to make a mistake.

That is true. Classic example that slowing down is dangerous is 1982 Swedish rally where Mikkola went off and lost a certain win (and Audi quattro maiden win for that).

[Eli]

if Latvala won't make a mistake/off/puncture, looks like first Tarmac win for him and a very good step forward in the championship ;)

[jonkka]

if Latvala won't make a mistake/off/puncture, looks like first Tarmac win for him and a very good step forward in the championship ;)

He'll still be trailing Ogier by some 20 points (depending on PS result) and there are two tarmac rallies left for Ogier to win and two gravel rallies for JML to try to offset that. JML winning here would surely balance the championship but Ogi's lead is still very convincing. Unless he makes a habit of crashing out.

[Mirek]

The positive thing is that Ogier isn't faultless and that Latvala seems to be a serious contender for him. Another positive thing is that Hyundai is catching up. The positive development through the season is quite obvious and I believe than next year they will be stronger. Citroën is still somewhat competitive but M-Sport must do something to be back in game and not only for numbers.

[HaCo]

No moving images of both crashes of Ogier. ?

[HaCo]

The positive thing is that Ogier isn't faultless and that Latvala seems to be a serious contender for him. Another positive thing is that Hyundai is catching up. The positive development through the season is quite obvious and I believe than next year they will be stronger. Citroën is still somewhat competitive but M-Sport must do something to be back in game and not only for numbers.

M-Sport should start attracting faster drivers.

[Astro83]

I really hope that J-M hold on to this, no probs if he not puncture or so.

Great driving from Tidemand om SS11!! 1th again! :D

[6789]

He'll still be trailing Ogier by some 20 points (depending on PS result) and there are two tarmac rallies left for Ogier to win and two gravel rallies for JML to try to offset that. JML winning here would surely balance the championship but Ogi's lead is still very convincing. Unless he makes a habit of crashing out.

Some friends have said that the rally Australia roads this year have a lot of loose on top. There has been a little bit of rain this week, which will help dust.

So that could make for cleaning issues for Ogier. I think Jari-Matti is still a chance.

[Andre Oliveira]

Where is Bernardo?

[Eli]

even though there are another 2 tarmac rallies this year, Latvala is showing here that he is capable of applying pressure on Ogier.

[Eli]

Sat 15:24 - SS12: Rain reported
WRC TV crews at the 7.4km point are getting a soaking. This could make things interesting.

[spyros]

ogier's crash

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/videos/page/112--80--.html?v=219682

[jonkka]

Had JML not had that puncture in Sardinia, things would now look very different... I still think JML's championship chances are slim, if not practically non-existent, but this sport can sure spring surprises and given that VW allows their drivers to fight each other, I am hoping for a exciting end for the season this year.

[Andre Oliveira]

Now championship can be re-launched. If Latvala wins and get PS points, he will be on race. If Australia runs good ;) if if... maybe this year we can see title decided on GB

[Eli]

I hope it won't be a re-run of '09 and '11 (between Loeb and Hirvonen) for Latvala if it comes down to GB

[spyros]

ogier has a crash record at gb,2008-9-10-11

[Eli]

ogier has a crash record at gb,2008-9-10-11

i mean from Latvala's side (in short- don't want him to fail like Hirvonen did back then)

[wwbroe]

Hold your horses guys, let's wait for finisch of this rally before we start dreaming about a big fight for championship. Still a long way to go.

[Eli]

Hold your horses guys, let's wait for finisch of this rally before we start dreaming about a big fight for championship. Still a long way to go.

true, very true...

[EightGear]

ogier's crash

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/videos/page/112--80--.html?v=219682
That was quite an impact...

[Eli]

bryan bouffier looks stuck in the WRC+ maps
Edit: he's moving again

[wwbroe]

That was quite an impact...

I don't see any impact, what moment are you watching?

[Eli]

now Mads seems stuck... in the WRC+ Maps...
Edit: he's moving again- looks like some glitch in the WRC+ Maps

[wwbroe]

Looks like heavy rain in the stage

[Franky]

now Mads seems stuck... in the WRC+ Maps...
Edit: he's moving again- looks like some glitch in the WRC+ Maps

Maybe you're thinking of the new start line

[Eli]

Maybe you're thinking of the new start line

right, thankx for that, i forgot...thankyou

[wwbroe]

Kubica may have some advantage on this one, heavy rain and mud is coming out.

[wwbroe]

Ostberg loosing almost 11 sec to Robert

[Eli]

rollcage damage for Ogier, no restart tommorow...now it's up to Latvala to make the most of it

[wwbroe]

Rollcage damage for Ogier, so no restart anymore tomorrow, so no PS points either

[EightGear]

Ogier's VW has got rollcage damage, so no restart for him tomorrow.

Edit: I was slow :)

[rage82]

Ogier will not restart tomorrow because of rollcage damage! So quit a big chance for Latvalla to cut the difference .

[HaCo]

I don't see any impact, what moment are you watching?

It's the next video, huge impact!
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/videos/page/112--80--.html?v=219682

[jonkka]

Rollcage damage for Ogier, so no restart anymore tomorrow, so no PS points either

Now that's gotta hurt.

By the way, have you noticed that cases where roll cage damage prevents restart has gone up lately? Are roll cages more fragile, are accidents more demanding for roll cages or, which I think, has FIA stepped up the scrutineering of roll cages after accidents?

[EightGear]

I don't see any impact, what moment are you watching?

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/videos/page/112--80--.html?v=219682

After his moment from yesterday you'll see the crash. Probably the previous link was wrong.

[wwbroe]

Neuville 5.24.3 so almost 9 seconds off the pace of Kubica, looking good for another stagewin for Robert

[Tom206wrc]

Another stage win for Kubica on this one ??? ;)

[wwbroe]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/videos/page/112--80--.html?v=219682

After his moment from yesterday you'll see the crash. Probably the previous link was wrong.

I only see stage 4-6 overview, but no crash, besides the one from Kubica

[EightGear]

I only see stage 4-6 overview, but no crash, besides the one from Kubica

It's in the 7-10 overview. Weird that the links don't work properly.

[wwbroe]

Sordo had a spin in this stage, that explains partly his time loss

[wwbroe]

It's in the 7-10 overview.

Ok, thanks EightGear

[Tom206wrc]

Huge loss for Sordo :mark:

[Duvel]

Neuville 5.24.3 so almost 9 seconds off the pace of Kubica, looking good for another stagewin for Robert

true, but i think the conditions are a little bit diffrent now, even more rain and mud.
Lett's see what time Thierry does,and compare it whit the time of Meeke.

[wwbroe]

Neuville only 0.4 from being second now!!

[Tom206wrc]

Important loss for Meeke too :(

[jonkka]

It's in the 7-10 overview. Weird that the links don't work properly.

It's because URL doesn't change even if you click on another video from selection.

[Eli]

not his fault, i don't understand why they have to reverse the starting order, screws the big boys up...

[wwbroe]

Kubica taking another stage win, alltough he did it in rather dry conditions compared to the others

[Eli]

Kubica taking another stage win, alltough he did it in rather dry conditions compared to the others
still a stage win is a stage win, well done to him.

[Frostmourne]

Hope Meeke will not fall off the pressure from Neuville. If Meeke end up second will be happy for him, if Neuville ends up seconds will happy for him and hyundai, as this will be very encourging result for them, and hopefully this will be reflected on WRC as general

[Eli]

as long as everybody finishes the rally from now on I'm happy.

[Mirek]

Hope Meeke will not fall off the pressure from Neuville. If Meeke end up second will be happy for him, if Neuville ends up seconds will happy for him and hyundai, as this will be very encourging result for them, and hopefully this will be reflected on WRC as general

Especially in Germany!

[satukata]

still a stage win is a stage win, well done to him.

All cars looks to have about same speed in tarmac..

Only our hero JM is in different planet

[Tom206wrc]

No Al Attiyah in SS12 :confused:

Edit: lost 5'11...

[denkimi]

All cars looks to have about same speed in tarmac..

Only our hero JM is in different planet
except VW, they are on a different planet.

[Andre Oliveira]

Now that's gotta hurt.

By the way, have you noticed that cases where roll cage damage prevents restart has gone up lately? Are roll cages more fragile, are accidents more demanding for roll cages or, which I think, has FIA stepped up the scrutineering of roll cages after accidents?

I think that last motiv :)

[stefanvv]

not his fault, i don't understand why they have to reverse the starting order, screws the big boys up...

Because of the balance, on gravel they're screwed only 1st day, on tarnac it must be the opposite - all other days.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier cant re-start.. no PS points for him.

[satukata]

except VW, they are on a different planet.

mikkelsens vw have same speed than all others.. gap betveen
2nd-8th place is only 48s and 4 different teams... good for the sport!

[satnav]

Just to clear up any uncertainty , there is a tyre change before SS 13/14

[satnav]

Cars in the tyre zone in Birkenfeld

[Lundefaret]

Latvala puts everyone in shame... i guess he is that much superior tarmac driver than Neuville and Sordo and the car has nothing to do with it...

Yes, that is correct. Latvala is on a brilliant form. In Finland he was really in a league of his own, and he contioues to be really, really fast here in Germany.
In Your attempt to talk his driving abilites down, and give all credit to the car, I think that You forget that Latvala, also in the past, has set some incredible times on tarmac when it has been variable grip conditions (in a Ford BTW). But he has had (and will have in the future) a difficulty in risk management. If You question Latvalas speed when he is on form, I think You are on the wrong path if Your aim is to unlock the secret of why some drivers are faster than others at certain times.

[stefanvv]

I see only Ogier's car on wrc+ live maps, is that normal?

EDIT: oh. it's SS12, I guess it is all wrong

[wwbroe]

I see only Ogier's car on wrc+ live maps, is that normal?

It is not normal, but i've seen it too. The car is in servicepark.

[wwbroe]

Hirvonen fastest sofar in 2.07.7

[wwbroe]

Neuville faster trough 2.05.6

[satukata]

hirvonen fastest sofar in 2.07.7

good mikko

[satukata]

Mikko fastest Ford on tarmac.. Evans very good too, but Kubica pretty bad rally again... :(

[N.O.T]

Yes, that is correct. Latvala is on a brilliant form. In Finland he was really in a league of his own, and he contioues to be really, really fast here in Germany.
In Your attempt to talk his driving abilites down, and give all credit to the car, I think that You forget that Latvala, also in the past, has set some incredible times on tarmac when it has been variable grip conditions (in a Ford BTW). But he has had (and will have in the future) a difficulty in risk management. If You question Latvalas speed when he is on form, I think You are on the wrong path if Your aim is to unlock the secret of why some drivers are faster than others at certain times.

I am not trying to diminish Latvalas skills on tarmac i am just pointing out that at top level the car has a lot to do with the results... and Latvala would not be the leader right now in a hyundai or a ford or a citroen...

Rallying is the sport where driver input forms the result in the highest degree than any other sport and that is the reason i am a fan, otherwise i would watch ladyboy sports like F1. But your claim that any car is a winner nowadays is wrong...

[wwbroe]

Sordo half a second second faster as his teammate

[satukata]

sordo half a second second faster as his teammate
go dani_!!

[wwbroe]

Again a besttime for Jari-Matti, beating Sordo by 0,3 seconds

[satukata]

7th fastest time for KING JM

[Tom206wrc]

SS14 Panzerplatte Lang 2 running ;)

[satukata]

how are conditions in last long stage?

[stefanvv]

Hyundai must be using some really good tape as the taped car is going for 2nd now

[Fast Eddie WRC]

SS13 Meeke edged Neuville by 0.5s ... Top 4 covered by 0.9s ! :)

[wwbroe]

Kubica trough in the long stage in 25.18.3, about same pace as first pass

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier off

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvuy7XbCcAEGOfi.jpg:large

Damage

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvuYkz8CEAAyZ1l.jpg:large

[RAS007]

I see Malcolm Wilson Motorsport are on their way to another successful event.

[jonkka]

I see Malcolm Wilson Motorsport are on their way to another successful event.

Being sarcastic?

[wwbroe]

Bouffier stopped in the stage

[arko5]

Bouffier out

[wwbroe]

Bouffier went off apparently

[N.O.T]

Meeke attacks... 2.7 faster than Neuville split 2.

[Lundefaret]

I am not trying to diminish Latvalas skills on tarmac i am just pointing out that at top level the car has a lot to do with the results... and Latvala would not be the leader right now in a hyundai or a ford or a citroen...

Rallying is the sport where driver input forms the result in the highest degree than any other sport and that is the reason i am a fan, otherwise i would watch ladyboy sports like F1. But your claim that any car is a winner nowadays is wrong...

In stead of just stating that You are right and I am wrong, could You back up this statement by some facts?

Look at Neuvilles speed in the Ford last year. Use Mads Østberg as a benchmark. Look at Paddon in Finland this year, use Neuville as a benchmark. Look at Mikkelsen in a Skoda in Poland in 2009, use everybody else as a benchmark. Look at Pontus Tidemans speed in Sweden in a private Ford in 2013, compare that to the same driver in a factorys spec Ford in 2014. Look at the differences in speed of Latvala when he is on form, and when he is not - in the same car. Look at Østberg vs Meeke in Finland this year. In the same car. Østberg with a lot more experience in botth WRC cars, and in Finland. Still, Meeke much faster.

The problem is that when the drivers dont drive fast enough the first assumption is that it is the car that is at fault. If Neuville was not at Ford last year, You would have written of the Ford as a slow car, because You would set Mads as the benchmark, believing he was driving the Ford to the max. As You are doing right now, thinking Mikko is really on it, its just the car, and Ogier would have no chance in a Ford.

Instead You should be preoccupied with finding out why Mikko Hirvonen suddenly drives at the speed of the novice Evans. Why is he suddenly so slow?

Off cource there is some differences between the cars, but they are much smaller than You think. They are so small that Ogier would fight for wins in a Hyundai, Ford, Citroën or a VW.

But dont worry, You are not alone, a lot of drivers thinks exactly the same. Its easier to accept that the car is not good enough, instead of accepting that it is them self that dont deliver. But it is wiser to accept the latter, because then You start working with that gives the highest degree of improvement, namely working on You own skills.

[Tom206wrc]

Meeke accelerates on SS14 :cool:

[Astro83]

In stead of just stating that You are right and I am wrong, could You back up this statement by some facts?

Look at Neuvilles speed in the Ford last year. Use Mads Østberg as a benchmark. Look at Paddon in Finland this year, use Neuville as a benchmark. Look at Mikkelsen in a Skoda in Poland in 2009, use everybody else as a benchmark. Look at Pontus Tidemans speed in Sweden in a private Ford in 2013, compare that to the same driver in a factorys spec Ford in 2014. Look at the differences in speed of Latvala when he is on form, and when he is not - in the same car. Look at Østberg vs Meeke in Finland this year. In the same car. Østberg with a lot more experience in botth WRC cars, and in Finland. Still, Meeke much faster.

The problem is that when the drivers dont drive fast enough the first assumption is that it is the car that is at fault. If Neuville was not at Ford last year, You would have written of the Ford as a slow car, because You would set Mads as the benchmark, believing he was driving the Ford to the max. As You are doing right now, thinking Mikko is really on it, its just the car, and Ogier would have no chance in a Ford.

Instead You should be preoccupied with finding out why Mikko Hirvonen suddenly drives at the speed of the novice Evans. Why is he suddenly so slow?

Off cource there is some differences between the cars, but they are much smaller than You think. They are so small that Ogier would fight for wins in a Hyundai, Ford, Citroën or a VW.

+1

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke going well... come on Kris let's see your speed !

[wwbroe]

New besttime for Ostberg in 25.01.8

[N.O.T]

In stead of just stating that You are right and I am wrong, could You back up this statement by some facts?

Look at Neuvilles speed in the Ford last year. Use Mads Østberg as a benchmark. Look at Paddon in Finland this year, use Neuville as a benchmark. Look at Mikkelsen in a Skoda in Poland in 2009, use everybody else as a benchmark. Look at Pontus Tidemans speed in Sweden in a private Ford in 2013, compare that to the same driver in a factorys spec Ford in 2014. Look at the differences in speed of Latvala when he is on form, and when he is not - in the same car. Look at Østberg vs Meeke in Finland this year. In the same car. Østberg with a lot more experience in botth WRC cars, and in Finland. Still, Meeke much faster.

The problem is that when the drivers dont drive fast enough the first assumption is that it is the car that is at fault. If Neuville was not at Ford last year, You would have written of the Ford as a slow car, because You would set Mads as the benchmark, believing he was driving the Ford to the max. As You are doing right now, thinking Mikko is really on it, its just the car, and Ogier would have no chance in a Ford.

Instead You should be preoccupied with finding out why Mikko Hirvonen suddenly drives at the speed of the novice Evans. Why is he suddenly so slow?

Off cource there is some differences between the cars, but they are much smaller than You think. They are so small that Ogier would fight for wins in a Hyundai, Ford, Citroën or a VW.

blah blah blah blah... wake up.

No way Latvala without the VW would be 1 min ahead of Sordo/Neuville/Meeke and winning stages while these 3 are risking everything... the opposite would be much likely. Go to bed... you are tired.

The hyundai Citroen Ford are close yes and maybe so equal that the drivers is the only difference but VW is way ahead.

[jonkka]

They are so small that Ogier would fight for wins in a Hyundai, Ford, Citroën or a VW.

A statement which we can't put to a test unless Ogier switches to one of those marques. Which is not going to happen so the whole debate is academic.

[Astro83]

Meeke going well... come on Kris let's see your speed !


:) :) Love to see Meeke succeed after all these years in the dark... He has always been a top driver!!

[mm1]

You mean, it's academic that VW is the best car now, ok, everybody to their own..

[wwbroe]

Both Fords are a litlle slower then Mads Ostberg

[wwbroe]

New besttime for Neuville in 24.53.8

[Lundefaret]

blah blah blah blah... wake up.

No way Latvala without the VW would be 1 min ahead of Sordo/Neuville/Meeke and winning stages while these 3 are risking everything... the opposite would be much likely. Go to bed... you are tired.

The hyundai Citroen Ford are close yes and maybe so equal that the drivers is the only difference but VW is way ahead.

Just a small question in relation to the way You build up Your arguments - do You find Your selv in the midst of puberty? It would explain a lot;)

[satukata]

King latvala :))

[N.O.T]

Just a small question in relation to the way You build up Your arguments - do You find Your selv in the midst of puberty? It would explain a lot;)

you are comparing different years and different drivers in different situations... how can i cope with gibberish ??? you are talking nonsense... simple as that...

VW have a far superior car... as you said Ogier would FIGHT in a citroen/ford/hyundai... in VW he drives around other guys in circles...

[stefanvv]

Wow, Mekke is really fast, Kubica said the asphalt is drying very quickly, might be true, so later drivers are in better position now

[Franky]

Just a small question in relation to the way You build up Your arguments - do You find Your selv in the midst of puberty? It would explain a lot;)

Don't go down that route.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Splits not working again :(

[jonkka]

Don't go down that route.

No use warning, NOT will rant regardless.

[wwbroe]

Besttime for Meeke, 3.4 sec faster as Thierry

[Tom206wrc]

Splits not working again :(


I hope it's only splits for Meeke :confused:

Edit: OK ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great time by Meeke to consolidate 2nd place !

[wwbroe]

Latvalla once again fastest trough

[N.O.T]

Just a small question in relation to the way You build up Your arguments - do You find Your selv in the midst of puberty? It would explain a lot;)

Latvala 3 and 6 seconds faster (with nothing at risk) than 2 guys that are killing each other for 2nd place... yes i am sure it is the superior tarmac skills of Latvala... you are wrong man... simple as that.

[satukata]

Meeke great again!

I rank meeke same level with seb and JM.

Top three rally drivers in WRC 2014

[Fast Eddie WRC]

SS14
Latvala
Meeke +2.6
Neuville +6.0
Sordo +12.4
Ostberg +14.0
Hirvo +14.4
Mikkel. +16.0
Evans +16.7
Kubica +30.5

[N.O.T]

4 stages to see who is going to get that 2nd place great performances by Meeke and Neuville.

[Frostmourne]

ooh, I really like Kris Meeke, he is so lovely, outspoken and I really like his accent. I hope we will see Khris next season as well.

[denkimi]

mikkelsens vw have same speed than all others.. gap betveen
2nd-8th place is only 48s and 4 different teams... good for the sport!
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/april/capito-tribute/page/1267--12-12-.html


Volkswagen has now won 204 of the 312 special stages it has contested – a success rate of 65 per cent.

yes, ogier and latvala are very good, but not that good. you can only do that if there's no real competition.


blah blah blah blah... wake up.

No way Latvala without the VW would be 1 min ahead of Sordo/Neuville/Meeke and winning stages while these 3 are risking everything... the opposite would be much likely. Go to bed... you are tired.

The hyundai Citroen Ford are close yes and maybe so equal that the drivers is the only difference but VW is way ahead.
²

latavala has only once beaten sordo in germany, and that was when sordo drove the inferior mini. i do not believe for 1 second he could gain a gap of over a minute and drive all the scratches in an equal car.

[jonkka]

I hope we will see Khris next season as well.

I think that's pretty much been made sure by now.

[Tom206wrc]

Problem for Lefèbvre or only splits not working :confused:

Edit: only GPS ;)
But Fisher loses 2'47 on split 2... :(

[Lundefaret]

blah blah blah blah... wake up.

No way Latvala without the VW would be 1 min ahead of Sordo/Neuville/Meeke and winning stages while these 3 are risking everything... the opposite would be much likely. Go to bed... you are tired.

The hyundai Citroen Ford are close yes and maybe so equal that the drivers is the only difference but VW is way ahead.

Just a small question in relation to the way You build up Your arguments - do You find Your selv in the midst of puberty?;)

[Eli]

I think that's pretty much been made sure by now.

i hope so too

[N.O.T]

no, i am 34... and amazed by how that tarmac specialist while he has nothing to fight for is beating meeke neuville and sordo who are fighting like pitbuls for 2nd...

I mean we all know the rich tarmac heritage of latvala and his amazing ZERO tarmac wins over the years.... so it is definately not due to the car that he beats sordo neuville and meeke so easily.

[Tom206wrc]

What happened to Giordano, Fisher and Koci on that SS14 :confused:

[Ucci]

no, i am 34... and amazed by how that tarmac specialist while he has nothing to fight for is beating meeke neuville and sordo who are fighting like pitbuls for 2nd...

I mean we all know the rich tarmac heritage of latvala and his amazing ZERO tarmac wins over the years.... so it is definately not due to the car that he beats sordo neuville and meeke so easily.

Don't be fulled-JML is NOT in a safe mode. He is still pushing. He said yesterday-driving in a safe mode can bring mistakes....

[N.O.T]

Safe mode not... but still he can brake a bit earlier in difficult spots.

[Eli]

well practice make perfect, latvala has said in the last few years that he has been working on his tarmac skills and it seems to be paying off, who would have thought he would beat fair & square not one but 2 tarmac specialists.. well done for Jari-Matti

[Andre Oliveira]

He ran on Nürburgring Nordschleife

[WUff1]

Kris Meeke maybe (?) caused an accident this morning between two stages and didn`t stop? police is inquiring.

http://forum.rallye-magazin.de/rallye-talk/23988-wm-rallye-deutschland-21-24-08-14-a-52.html

Any info about this?

[Lundefaret]

no, i am 34... and amazed by how that tarmac specialist while he has nothing to fight for is beating meeke neuville and sordo who are fighting like pitbuls for 2nd...

I mean we all know the rich tarmac heritage of latvala and his amazing ZERO tarmac wins over the years.... so it is definately not due to the car that he beats sordo neuville and meeke so easily.

To get that statement to add up, there is a couple of aspects that I think You should take in to consideration to cross check if the equation will add up.
What I think is important to check is if this is Latvala on a show of form, or if this is only the car (or teh car has most to do with it).

1) Sebastien Loeb
After two days of Rally Deutchland, in sometimes difficult conditions, his best rally, where do You think Sebastien Loeb would be placed in regards to Kris Meeke?
The same question, but now add Sordo or Neuville.

2) Sebastien Ogier
If we use Ogier as a benchmark, we know that he was on a speed similar and slightly faster than Latvala. If we take away Latvala, where should Ogier be placed in this stage of the rally. How much in front of Meeke and Neuville would we expect to see him?

3) Sordo, Neuville, and Meeke
If we take in account the lack of driving for Sordo, the lack of form this year from Neuville, and the lack of experience from Meeke, where should they be placed in regards to Ogier (if he was still in it), since we know that the current leader is travelling at a speed similar to Ogiers.

4) Latvala
a) Has his performance the whole year been 100% consitent, or has he had some up and downs?
b) Can his current form be related to a positive form curve, like him just winning an event, setting good times etc?

These questions, and more info like filiming from testing etc, is the basis of my toughts on the matter.
When i "run" these calculations, I come up with Latvala being the variable, meaning this is Latvala on a good form, (doing a good drive), and not the car doing the drive for him.

[stefanvv]

Latvala's skills on tarmac should not be underestimated. He has develop his skills over the years and had some really good advisors like Romain Dumas for 1 example. If it wasn't Loeb around he should make his tarmac victroy long ago.


I mean we all know the rich tarmac heritage of latvala and his amazing ZERO tarmac wins over the years.... so it is definately not due to the car that he beats sordo neuville and meeke so easily.

True, zero wins, on the other hand other 3 mentioned sumed have overall of 1.

[Lundefaret]

Latvala's skills on tarmac should not be underestimated. He has develop his skills over the years and had some really good advisors like Romain Dumas for 1 example. If it wasn't Loeb around he should make his tarmac victroy long ago.



True, zero wins, on the other hand other 3 mentioned sumed have overall of 1.

+1;)

[satnav]

Kris Meeke maybe (?) caused an accident this morning between two stages and didn`t stop? police is inquiring.

http://forum.rallye-magazin.de/rallye-talk/23988-wm-rallye-deutschland-21-24-08-14-a-52.html

Any info about this?

Different version of events reported here http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115512

[Franky]

Kris Meeke maybe (?) caused an accident this morning between two stages and didn`t stop? police is inquiring.

http://forum.rallye-magazin.de/rallye-talk/23988-wm-rallye-deutschland-21-24-08-14-a-52.html

Any info about this?

Autosport article with Meeke's comments - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115512

[N.O.T]

Nobody says it is just the car.... nobody said it is even the car doing most of the work... the point is that JUST the VW is just a far better car allowing Latvala to be that superior on tarmac and Ogier dominating like never before.

Yes Ogier is a far superior driver to everyone right now but put him in a hyundai and he would probably have less wins but still be champion.

Latvala is easily the second fastest driver nowadays but put him in a ford and he would probaly have more offs and not be second in the championship.

Meeke is fast yes, put him in a VW and he would win ssome events this year and he would not have so many opffs trying to cope with the speed of the citroen to catch the VW same goes for the rest of the bunch that are professional drivers... for example sordo and neuville would be potential winners int he VW here...

You have a very complicated thought process thus you ignore basic stuff thus you are wrong. You choose to ignore the things that are infront of you and you complicate things beyond reality... you are one of those people who are just annoying because you bend reality to prove your point.... you bore me. This ends the discussion from my part...continue living in your fake wolrd full of IFs BUTs and What IFs... star trek land is a nice place for some people.

[N.O.T]

Latvala's skills on tarmac should not be underestimated. He has develop his skills over the years and had some really good advisors like Romain Dumas for 1 example. If it wasn't Loeb around he should make his tarmac victroy long ago.



True, zero wins, on the other hand other 3 mentioned sumed have overall of 1.

1 is still bigger than 0... elementary school stuff...also Mr sordos 2nd and 3rd places on tarmac are also a bit more than Latvalas..... but ok i do not have high hopes from people.

[WUff1]

Autosport article with Meeke's comments - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115512

Thank you!

[Nornbugger]

Yes, that is correct. Latvala is on a brilliant form. In Finland he was really in a league of his own, and he contioues to be really, really fast here in Germany.
In Your attempt to talk his driving abilites down, and give all credit to the car, I think that You forget that Latvala, also in the past, has set some incredible times on tarmac when it has been variable grip conditions (in a Ford BTW). But he has had (and will have in the future) a difficulty in risk management. If You question Latvalas speed when he is on form, I think You are on the wrong path if Your aim is to unlock the secret of why some drivers are faster than others at certain times.

I think to say all time is only from JML is wrong, 1/2 car 1/2 JML is more correct IMHO

[stefanvv]

1 is still bigger than 0... elementary school stuff...also Mr sordos 2nd and 3rd places on tarmac are also a bit more than Latvalas..... but ok i do not have high hopes from people.

Ok, little higher school math - 3 drivers have overall of 1 win, this makes 1/3 (0.333.... if You want) wins, which is neglitable achievment, there is not even 1 win for each of them, so we can't call it real win. If we add to the equation Latvala's generous mistake while leading last year here, the numbers would be quite different and Latvala would have 1 whole win, while other 3 asphalt specialists, exactly ZERO. But this is only probability theory anyway (wait, that's math from university)

[N.O.T]

I think to say all time is only from JML is wrong, 1/2 car 1/2 JML is more correct IMHO

amen brother...

[N.O.T]

Ok, little higher school math - 3 drivers have overall of 1 win, this makes 1/3 (1.333.... if You want) wins, which is neglitable achievment, there is not even 1 win for each of them, so we can't call it real win. If we add to the equation Latvala's generous mistake while leading last year here, the numbers would be quite different and Latvala would have 1 whole win, while other 3 asphalt specialists, exactly ZERO. But this is only probability theory anyway (wait, that's math from university)

no matter how many times you divide 1 it is still going to be larger than 0.

as i said i do not have high hopes... so you can go on... by yourself.

[HaCo]

JML never won a tarmac rally in a time where Loeb won all the tarmac rally's. In the last 10 years, who won tarmac rally's? :-)

[Jafry]

More photos from Saturday HERE: http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=1292

[HaCo]

Bryan must have kissed a hinkelstein :-)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvvZrl-IYAA4AyT.jpg

[N.O.T]

JML never won a tarmac rally in a time where Loeb won all the tarmac rally's. In the last 10 years, who won tarmac rally's? :-)

Sordo.

[Eli]

JML never won a tarmac rally in a time where Loeb won all the tarmac rally's. In the last 10 years, who won tarmac rally's? :-)

Seb Ogier, he won here 3 years ago when Loeb had a puncture

[Co-FIN]

..

[N.O.T]

another Finnish person beaten up by the french drivers all these years that has problems understanding english... read the post again...

try and wipe the tears from your eyes of championship-less years and try and understand what i said.

If you fail i cannot help.

[mm1]

You are always trying to end the conversation by making fool of others. Instead you are making fool by yourself..

Normally i'd some how agree that it's about the car, BUT. JML has grown a big time mentally in short while and you can see it from interviews etc. He has always been very quick but so fragile. Now it seems that he has finally found some inner peace (balls). I hope it last but in this mode that he's in now he is very good.

I think you have some issues admitting that you can be wrong some times.. And no Mr. Spock cant help you with it ;)

Beam me up!

What's the problem with you guys, N.O.T. is just saying that VW is the fastest car, without saying JML is slow, he clearly isn't. Just as clearly, that VW is the car to have, and team to drive for.

[N.O.T]

Finnish guys should not be taken seriously Loeb beat any sense out of them... most of them back when their managers ruled the sport were all flamboyant and vocal... but after the french beat them up like garbage roaming dogs for 10+ years and put driving skills in the picture instead of manager tricks they either retreated back in their caves or just got jittery over everything...

[stefanvv]

What's the problem with you guys, N.O.T. is just saying that VW is the fastest car, without saying JML is slow, he clearly isn't. Just as clearly, that VW is the car to have, and team to drive for.

I completely agree that VW is the best car around (but may be not for German's asphalt, this mostly applies to suspension for the tough gravel events) and VW team is the best employer You could have in WRC.

[Co-FIN]

..

[Co-FIN]

..

[N.O.T]

i will not explain for a millionth time what i said and ment...

[dimviii]

Latvala
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LMJjM6ffolg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/p480x480/10584035_10152424598448952_2652863653941502093_n.j pg

[dimviii]

borl day2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PpkOOp4WDTY

[satukata]

Latvala
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LMJjM6ffolg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/p480x480/10584035_10152424598448952_2652863653941502093_n.j pg

Latvala driving on the limit! great JM

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/p480x480/10386819_10152341404795678_3439195418372334518_n.j pg?oh=466dc10b2f7fad4f7f19b3359aaef59a&oe=546E3B29&__gda__=1416405968_6a0be83dfc67eec3cb4740f4eca0414 f

[HarriK]

Ogier off by photos yesterday:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/10386819_10152341404795678_3439195418372334518_n.j pg

[Ucci]

Some thoughts over 2.day: JML-superb job ++
Meeke: surprising over and over, even the third place (if Therry manage to pass him) will be a great result ++
Neuville:after disaster on Thursday more than brave drive++
Sordo : sorry for spin today; loosing 20 sec, but he MUST reach the finish, he need some points, so to attack 110% is not a good idea...+
Evans : very solid performance, as he has not much experience; faster than Mikko...for me he showed very mature drive++
Mikkelsen : not his event, clearly 0
Ostberg : read my comment for Mikkelsen
Kubica : after yesterday's accident he showed some potential today-after all he won two stages !! He has the speed, he has the balls, but he was also very average on other stages today (with some luck on Panzerplatte Nb.1-it was close to tear the wheel off). So : +

[Zeakiwi]

JML never won a tarmac rally in a time where Loeb won all the tarmac rally's. In the last 10 years, who won tarmac rally's? :-)
Markko Martin won France (Tour de Corse) and Spain in 2004.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier crash today, not sure if already posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO0F2eXJ31s

[N.O.T]

Ogier crash today, not sure if already posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO0F2eXJ31s

quite scary... lots of speed.

[A.F.F.]

N.O.T is like Walter Röhl of this forum. Hated by most and haven't got the balls tomcome in Finland because he know he'd get his a$$ kicked.

[J.Lindstroem]

another Finnish person beaten up by the french drivers all these years that has problems understanding english... read the post again...

try and wipe the tears from your eyes of championship-less years and try and understand what i said.

If you fail i cannot help.

I´ve been following your posts in 11 fucking years and im motherfucking tired of your crap. NOT, you are a rude piece of shit and the greatest asshole ever seen on this forum.

[N.O.T]

I´ve been following your posts in 11 fucking years and im motherfucking tired of your crap. NOT, you are a rude piece of shit and the greatest asshole ever seen on this forum.

Patience is a virtue... 11 years... wow... i usually burst after 11 minutes... oh well no hard feelings.

[N.O.T]

N.O.T is like Walter Röhl of this forum. Hated by most and haven't got the balls tomcome in Finland because he know he'd get his a$$ kicked.

most of you guys are roaming the stages drunk... you would probably fall on your ass trying to kick my ass...

[AdvEvo]

:)

[Susiraja]

most of you guys are roaming the stages drunk... you would probably fall on your ass trying to kick my ass...

Even us Finns can put the drinking on hold if there is a worthy cause...

[Rallyper]

I´ve been following your posts in 11 fucking years and im motherfucking tired of your crap. NOT, you are a rude piece of shit and the greatest asshole ever seen on this forum.

Well, I must say quotes like this one makes automatically the person who wrote out of the forum.

[jonkka]

Even us Finns can put the drinking on hold if there is a worthy cause...

I am living proof of that. Not a drop this weekend. Not even celebration champagne.

[Rallyper]

So let´s go back to topic. And good morning to those of you who doesn´t have a hangover or overslept or something... ;)

So what can we wait for this day to come? The fight will go on for sure!!

[arko5]

Kubica with problems before start

[Fiat-131-Abarth]

Moffet is faster than Bouffier on split 1. What is going on there?

[wwbroe]

Protasov also heaving problems?

[jonkka]

So let´s go back to topic. And good morning to those of you who doesn´t have a hangover or overslept or something... ;)

So what can we wait for this day to come? The fight will go on for sure!!

I underslept - I got alarm going for rally start time but we're one hour ahead so I woke one hour too early...

Expectations run high and it'll be interesting to see the PS. So far, Latvala has proven that he can take stage wins and if that continues, he should be able to bag full points haul. That would cut his gap to Ogier by more than half to 16 points.

[wwbroe]

Kubica is still on roadsection, having problmes with the gearbox

[HaCo]

Moffet is faster than Bouffier on split 1. What is going on there?

The guys from Hyundai had a lot of work this weekend, at least Bouffier is driving again :-) Probably needs to build on his confidence.


Let's hope everyone gets to the finnish. Kubica was already far behind.