Are Renault allowed to 'modify' their engines?

[MacFeegle]

Wonder how long the FIA will last?

Renault are hugely important to Redbollox so the FIA will grant consessions allowing them to make realiability modifications.

cant believe you guys havent seen the pattern?

[Mark]

Reliability modifications have been a thing ever since the engine homolgation rules.

[MacFeegle]

Give me a break. Renault have been alowed to homoginese their engines to get them up to speed.

What now will be different?????

[steveaki13]

You should meet Gary Walker :p but you will have some fun discussions with DJ. :D

It seems wrong to me too actually that Renault should be able to do any tweaking. They get to improve things which Mercedes don't because they have designed a more reliable engine.

[MacFeegle]

You should meet Gary Walker :p but you will have some fun discussions with DJ. :D

It seems wrong to me too actually that Renault should be able to do any tweaking. They get to improve things which Mercedes don't because they have designed a more reliable engine.

Amen!

The POS French power plant and the prancing pony dinasour are inferior to the innovative and revolutionary German monster.

Toady Todt will have his ear bent from Paris to Salzburg to Maranello. Renault will be allowed to make reliability modifications and suddenly their engine will be the strongest out there again just like last time. Whats the betting splitting the turbine and air intake will be a reliability change :D

The Bull is the best chassis and wont stop threatening to pull out of F1 until Renault are allowed to cheat a better powerplant.

[henners88]

........ revolutionary German monster.
I prefer to call it the 'Northamptonshire punisher'! lol :p

[journeyman racer]

Has there actually been an official word from Renault? I've only ever heard whinging from Red BS, Ferrari, Bernie and the AusGP organisers.

[Mia 01]

Teams can modify the hardware stuff in their PU but they can not use thoose modifications until next year as I understand.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Last thing I heard was that Renault, Ferrari and Mercedes - so all of them - requested permission to make reliability mods

[dj_bytedisaster]

Give me a break. Renault have been alowed to homoginese their engines to get them up to speed.

What now will be different?????

I see Gary has created a second account... Is homoginese even a word? ;)

[MacFeegle]

Sorry, dont understand. Please who is Gary

Spelling is not my strong.

[MacFeegle]

Soz- ment strength and not strong

[steveaki13]

Sorry, dont understand. Please who is Gary

Spelling is not my strong.

Gary was/is a member who was .... not the biggest fan of Red Bull and Sebastian Vettel.

DJ meanwhile is a Seb and Red Bull fan, so I guess he was making a joke about you and Gary both being similar in your views. :)

[MacFeegle]

Kool. Thanx,

Like Gary, DJ is stupid :)

Serious, i like what Bollox does for motor sport and extreme in general but they habe boots too small for their feet in F1. Marlene Dietrich think he can snap his fingers like Toad used to and FIA do jig. Maybe, maybe, but hope those days are gone. Dont thing so

[airshifter]

Gary was/is a member who was .... not the biggest fan of Red Bull and Sebastian Vettel.

DJ meanwhile is a Seb and Red Bull fan, so I guess he was making a joke about you and Gary both being similar in your views. :)

I think if you read the posts by Gary, it's not that he is against RB, Vettel, or any particular team. He just tires of the "fanboy" attitude of any forum member who excuses what their favorite driver does wrong. I can't say I blame him much for that... I simply ignore the input of those with the "fanboy" attitude, since it will always excuse their drivers in a double standard sort of way.

[driveace]

DJ can't wait till RB and Vettel ,are back to giving the finger !The finger that got up everybody's nose !
For 4 years Vettel had a far superior car to most others,now Mercedes are a jump in front of the red cars,and RBs ,some are not happy

[steveaki13]

I think if you read the posts by Gary, it's not that he is against RB, Vettel, or any particular team. He just tires of the "fanboy" attitude of any forum member who excuses what their favorite driver does wrong. I can't say I blame him much for that... I simply ignore the input of those with the "fanboy" attitude, since it will always excuse their drivers in a double standard sort of way.

Oh I don't know, I think I had conversations with Gary which left me in no doubt that he doesn't like Vettel.
He may have had an issue with fanboys too, but I remember him scorning Seb when he didn't win 2009 championship having a car that was faster than anyone else.

Or why he didn't win every race cause the car had a 2 second advantage. :p Don't want to be putting words in his mouth.

If your out there Gary, let us know. :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Kool. Thanx,

Like Gary, DJ is stupid :)

Serious, i like what Bollox does for motor sport and extreme in general but they habe boots too small for their feet in F1. Marlene Dietrich think he can snap his fingers like Toad used to and FIA do jig. Maybe, maybe, but hope those days are gone. Dont thing so

That's the way to do it babe, come in here with 10 posts and insult people who've been a member longer than you've been alive. Go on like like that sweetheart, you're doing well ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think if you read the posts by Gary, it's not that he is against RB, Vettel, or any particular team. He just tires of the "fanboy" attitude of any forum member who excuses what their favorite driver does wrong. I can't say I blame him much for that... I simply ignore the input of those with the "fanboy" attitude, since it will always excuse their drivers in a double standard sort of way.

Gary hates everybody, even himself. He just came in here, posted foul languaged stuff and buggered off again for a few weeks. Well, he has the foul language down our new addition. But he seems to be a wee bit dyslexic.

[Tazio]

You guys are mean, and I've been bad! :dork: :sailor: :angel::confused:

[pino]

How about we forget Gary, and go back to the topic ?

[steveaki13]

How about we forget Gary, and go back to the topic ?

Good idea.

Do we know for 100% certain what the situation with the engine freezes has been.

I mean someone said Renault had developed their engines and someone else said, every engine maker had been able to tweak.

[AndyL]

Good idea.

Do we know for 100% certain what the situation with the engine freezes has been.

I mean someone said Renault had developed their engines and someone else said, every engine maker had been able to tweak.

Sadly, I did at one point read the relevant regulations :snore: There were some late changes to the engine rules that were published a few weeks before the start of the season, introducing the points system that limits how much of the engine design they're allowed to change from one year to the next. The number of points reduces each year, leading to almost (but not quite) an engine freeze from the start of the 2018 season.
That doesn't affect in-season changes though, and the rules there are pretty the same as they have been in previous years: changes permitted at the FIA's discretion for reliability, safety or cost-saving reasons.

Sporting regs appendix 4 - 1(c) covers allowed changes to the homologated power unit:


A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014, or modified and re-delivered to the FIA after that date, which the FIA is satisfied, in its absolute discretion and after full consultation with all other suppliers of power units for the Championship, could fairly and equitably be allowed to compete with other homologated power units.

Such changes will normally only be accepted if they are being proposed for reliability, safety or cost-saving reasons. Any manufacturer wishing to make a change for any of the above reasons must apply in writing to the FIA Technical Department and provide all necessary information including where appropriate, clear evidence of failures. The FIA will study such requests and, if they agree that the changes should be permitted, will circulate the correspondence to all manufacturers for comment. If the FIA receive no comments which cast doubt on their original decision about the proposed modification(s) they will confirm to the manufacturer concerned that they may be carried out.


The second paragraph is new in this year's regs, but I think it just regularises existing practise. All the manufacturers have been using "reliability fixes" to improve performance since engine homologation rules were introduced. I suspect the manufacturers have some sort of gentleman's agreement about not objecting too much to each others' design changes, leaving just the FIA to decide whether changes are legitimate. We all know how good the teams are at outwitting the FIA's technical department.

[Bagwan]

I read that Renault already had a new version of the engine in Bahrain , but only Red Bull and Torro Rosso had them .

Other customers didn't fair so well .

I guess you want to keep DiDi happy , as he pays the bills .


Now , can we get back to talking about Gary ?

[Tazio]

:stareup: I'd rather talk about "Fast Felipe Baggie" :angel:
What about that start last week, it reminded me of the 2004 Renault. :eek: ;)

[Bagwan]

:stareup: I'd rather talk about "Fast Felipe Baggie" :angel:
What about that start last week, it reminded me of the 2004 Renault. :eek: ;)

Flip runs a Merc , dawgie dawg .
We be talkin' Renault here .

[dj_bytedisaster]

I read that Renault already had a new version of the engine in Bahrain , but only Red Bull and Torro Rosso had them .


No, the PU's in all Renault cars are the same. After the last Bahrain winter test Red Bull sent a crack team of programmers to Viry to rewrite Renaults atrociously bad control software, mainly in regards to MGU-K power delivery. That's why they and TR were suddenly up there in Melbourne, because they used theirown firmware instead of the junk Renault had vomitted into a file.
RB however does not allow Lotus and Caterham to use their software. Those two still have to use the original Renault junkware. That's the difference.

[MacFeegle]

That's the way to do it babe, come in here with 10 posts and insult people who've been a member longer than you've been alive. Go on like like that sweetheart, you're doing well ;)

Sorry, not babe or sweetheart. You think I do boy, you mistake buddy. You like that then ok but not me.

[MacFeegle]

I read that Renault already had a new version of the engine in Bahrain , but only Red Bull and Torro Rosso had them .

Other customers didn't fair so well .

I guess you want to keep DiDi happy , as he pays the bills .


Now , can we get back to talking about Gary ?

Is this true. If yes then pressure on Toad pays off.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Is this true. If yes then pressure on Toad pays off.

The man's called Todt. God, your spelling is bad. And what has Todt to do with the fact that Renault produced a crap engine?

[Bagwan]

No, the PU's in all Renault cars are the same. After the last Bahrain winter test Red Bull sent a crack team of programmers to Viry to rewrite Renaults atrociously bad control software, mainly in regards to MGU-K power delivery. That's why they and TR were suddenly up there in Melbourne, because they used theirown firmware instead of the junk Renault had vomitted into a file.
RB however does not allow Lotus and Caterham to use their software. Those two still have to use the original Renault junkware. That's the difference.

No .
I did read that .
There is a possibility that either I , or the writer got it wrong , but I did read that .

I have hunted for where to no avail , sadly .
So , I can't exactly back it up too well , but I'm not lying to you all , honest .


I'm not throwing rocks at the Bulls for the fun of it , dj .
I'd much prefer it if they can turn it around quickly , so at least someone keeps the Mercs honest in a run for the title .

[Bagwan]

The man's called Todt. God, your spelling is bad. And what has Todt to do with the fact that Renault produced a crap engine?

dj , my computer highlighted a number of spelling mistakes in the quote of your words I used in my last post .
Add to that , the name "Toad" rather sounds like a nickname , doesn't it ?

If you had slid your chair back from the keyboard for a moment before posting this , as a less than perfect speller criticizing someone who was likely correctly spelling a nickname , you might have realized he was referring to Red Bull lobbying Todt to relax homologation regs , in reference to my post , saying Bulls and Torros had new units .

And , can you say Renault have produced a "crap" engine , or is there actually some more potential , once the software is truly sorted ?

[MacFeegle]

The man's called Todt. God, your spelling is bad. And what has Todt to do with the fact that Renault produced a crap engine?

My spelling bad but do I need to spell it out. Marlene Dietrich say to Toad redbollox put big money in sport and quit F1 if we dont win so Toad gives renault a little blind eye to improve engine. Happen before, happen again.

Today ferrari still important to F1 but redbollox got the biggest grip of Toads man fruit.

[MacFeegle]

dj , my computer highlighted a number of spelling mistakes in the quote of your words I used in my last post .
Add to that , the name "Toad" rather sounds like a nickname , doesn't it ?

If you had slid your chair back from the keyboard for a moment before posting this , as a less than perfect speller criticizing someone who was likely correctly spelling a nickname , you might have realized he was referring to Red Bull lobbying Todt to relax homologation regs , in reference to my post , saying Bulls and Torros had new units .

And , can you say Renault have produced a "crap" engine , or is there actually some more potential , once the software is truly sorted ?

What he says :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

dj , my computer highlighted a number of spelling mistakes in the quote of your words I used in my last post .
Add to that , the name "Toad" rather sounds like a nickname , doesn't it ?

If you had slid your chair back from the keyboard for a moment before posting this , as a less than perfect speller criticizing someone who was likely correctly spelling a nickname , you might have realized he was referring to Red Bull lobbying Todt to relax homologation regs , in reference to my post , saying Bulls and Torros had new units .

And , can you say Renault have produced a "crap" engine , or is there actually some more potential , once the software is truly sorted ?

I haven't heard a single time that RB were lobbying Todt to relax the homologation regs. That's something bumhurt people on the interwebs have invented. Renault themselves had asked for an exception, but the request was denied.

As far as Renaults potential goes. I don't doubt they can find something, especially in terms of driveability, but you won't find the 50 or something missing horsepower through software updates.

[Bagwan]

I haven't heard a single time that RB were lobbying Todt to relax the homologation regs. That's something bumhurt people on the interwebs have invented. Renault themselves had asked for an exception, but the request was denied.

As far as Renaults potential goes. I don't doubt they can find something, especially in terms of driveability, but you won't find the 50 or something missing horsepower through software updates.

"That's something bumhurt people on the interwebs have invented."

Was that line in your post really necessary ?
Do you need to be sounding like you're spoiling for a fight ?

I thank you for the rest of your post .

Perhaps the word "lobbying" is not the best way to put it , but McFeegle mentioned the murmurs about Detrich pulling out earlier , and can be seen as pretty much the same thing , as pulling out would surely cripple the sport at the moment .
Perhaps not if two more teams come in , but nobody should put large money on that yet , until they know the large money has a team actually show up .

In terms of horsepower , though , wouldn't there be at least some available from the electrical end of things ?
They've always be close to aero-perfect , but have never been very happy cars electronically . It became pretty unsurprising to hear that a Red Bull had lost it's KERS .

If it can become a strong point , rather than a weak one , maybe they can get on those Merc tailpipes .

[steveaki13]

"That's something bumhurt people on the interwebs have invented."

Was that line in your post really necessary ?
Do you need to be sounding like you're spoiling for a fight ?


I agree Bagwan

Its not needed. You have used that line 5 or 6 times over the last few months.

It seems that you consider anyone who doesn't love Vettel domination as "Butt Hurt"

Very nasty and childish really because you make many good points in all of your posts.

[dj_bytedisaster]

"That's something bumhurt people on the interwebs have invented."

Was that line in your post really necessary ?
Do you need to be sounding like you're spoiling for a fight ?


I'm not spoiling for a fight. I'm just sick of the perpetual anti-RB and anti-Vettel stance you find just about everywhere. Being someone who doesn't hate them is like walking into a room declaring you have a habit of molesting children. Everybody seems to think it is ok do blame RB of every kind of villainy, completely forgetting just how much would be lost if they stopped pouring money into WRC, endurance racing and F1. People feel a need to bash them for nothing else but having the audacity to beat whatever team/driver they're supporting. Garry and our new friend McFeegle are only two prime examples.


I thank you for the rest of your post .

Perhaps the word "lobbying" is not the best way to put it , but McFeegle mentioned the murmurs about Detrich pulling out earlier , and can be seen as pretty much the same thing , as pulling out would surely cripple the sport at the moment .
Perhaps not if two more teams come in , but nobody should put large money on that yet , until they know the large money has a team actually show up .

Mateschitz's statement had nothing to do with the homologation rules. He said he was sick of the political haggling behind the scenes, mainly the 'fundamental opposition' of other teams, who are sick of being beaten. I've seen the original interview. He complained that Adrian Newey's comments about the too low weight limit and the low noses last autumn were dismissed solely because they came from RB with everyone saying it was just RB wanting to have an advantage. Now we learn of drivers being admitted to hospital because of extreme dieting (Vergne) and we already had two accidents where the low nose lifted the other car. He is simply fed up being villified.


In terms of horsepower , though , wouldn't there be at least some available from the electrical end of things ?
They've always be close to aero-perfect , but have never been very happy cars electronically . It became pretty unsurprising to hear that a Red Bull had lost it's KERS .

If it can become a strong point , rather than a weak one , maybe they can get on those Merc tailpipes .

All Renault cars have been running full MGU-K output since Melbourne. What RB's software upgrade did change was the way the power was delivered. In simplified terms, the Renault software just belches out the full load making the car uncontrollable and the unit overheats, while the RB software delivers the power more smoothly and with less heat generation. Remember - during the winter tests they hacked holes in their bodywork to cope with the heat. Software won't give more horses, but it can tame them.

[henners88]

I think it's natural after a long period of dominance for people who don't necessarily support Red Bull to enjoy seeing them facing a challenge. It happens whatever team is or has been at the front. Some of us have waited patiently for years now to see a different driver and team fight for the World Championship and the season is young yet. Let's enjoy the present and leave the school yard jibes aside and forget the people who are not even posting currently. F1 is not important enough to ruin a Sunday over :)

[MacFeegle]

All team bitch and moan and feel bumhurt. F1 politics always.

Weight, nose, costs, flex nose. Always complain and all of them also.

Dont hate Redbull (do hate drink yuk) but Marlene always cry like little girl all time. Best car but crap engine from france as always until get under table from FIA to change illegal because redbull money. Keep happening and why mercedes and non renault team bother and leave sport. Do honda want to fight with one hand in pocket. hari kari.

Vettel good driver but not best and only allowed be best last time FIA let renault improve engine and not just reliable.

[dj_bytedisaster]

say what??

[MacFeegle]

say what??

My friend bagwan tell you. He understand

[Bagwan]

"Ungawa , bagwan get it ." , wrote the dirty hippy , turning the corner .

[steveaki13]

Am I the only one who hasn't understood a single word on this page of the thread. :confused:

[Bagwan]

Bundolo , Steve .

Creeeeegah .

[dj_bytedisaster]

We've invented a new language :D

[Bagwan]

We've invented a new language :D

Language not new .
Language Tarzan speak .

[schmenke]

Time for your meds Baggie...

[driveace]

Was RB and Dietrick also complaining about the overall cap on expenditure ? That he didnt want a cap ? AND he did say that he was fed up of the meddling with the regulations by the FIA ,and may decide to quit F1
And were there ANY other teams that were objecting too about the cap ?
The Teams were told two years ago about the new engine formule ,so have had 2 years to plan ,design and build and test these new engines ,Merc were up to the mark ,where did Renault ,who have always had good strong engines get it wrong .

[Bagwan]

dj , here's reference to the fact that Renault had not just new software upgrades , but also , as I stated , new spec power units as well :
From James Allen :
"The return to competitiveness of Renault and Lotus should take another step this weekend in China, as the black and gold cars have some updates on the chassis side and they will also have the latest specification Renault power units as used in Bahrain by Red Bull and Toro Rosso."

So , I say back to you , no , you're wrong , and I wasn't lying .