Unlapping behind the Safety Car

[steveaki13]

I seem to remember a thread about this before somewhere, but I thought I would open one up.

We again saw yesterday a 4 or 5 lap stint once the car had been removed from the track where lapped cars were not only allowed to uplap themselves but to almost catch the field.

I have heard and suggested a few different idea's on the best way to solve this.

As far as I see there a 5 solutions to choose from.

1. You just go back to the old days and leave lapped cars in the snake where ever they fall and then except that they will split the field slightly at restarts.

2. Do what we have now. Where the cars are given basically 4 or 5 laps to catch the snake and unlap themselves, and we waste 5 laps we could have racing.

3. Similar to now.When cars unlap themselves but only give them 1 lap to get out of sight and then restart the race. Afterall there is no harm if they are caught again in 5 or 6 laps time.

4. The lapped cars stayed a lap down (afterall they have actually lost a lap, so why should they get it back) and drop to the back of the snake. That would only take 1 lap from when the signal was given.

5. The fifth option I thought of came after someone said that option 4 might be dangerous.
So how about once the crashed car has been removed and instead of a lapped cars may overtake signal, (which takes 4 laps to resolve) they instead give a "lapped cars drive through the pits signal"
My thinking was, that the snake will probably have been out already for 3 or 4 laps for the incident. So all the cars will be in a que. So if all the lapped cars amongst the snake come in and drive through the pits, then all the lead lap cars will be left behind the SC in order, the lapped cars are also in race order and then come out of the other end of the pitlane but at the back of the snake, leaving the restart clear after just 1 lap from giving the signal or 2 at most, rather than the current 4 or 5.

Anyway those are the 5 options I would think are best.

What are you all thinking about it? Because its clear to me its just a waste of racing laps. If 3 SC's come out in a race and we wait 4 laps for each that can be 10-12 laps of the race under needless SC

[AndyL]

I may have said this once or twice before but I don't see the problem with option 1. If there are backmarkers between two front-runners at the restart, it's because there were backmarkers between them before the safey car came out. I don't see that it's the job of the safety car to change that.

[steveaki13]

I may have said this once or twice before but I don't see the problem with option 1. If there are backmarkers between two front-runners at the restart, it's because there were backmarkers between them before the safey car came out. I don't see that it's the job of the safety car to change that.

I actually agree with this personally.

The SC is a safety tool for removing dangerous cars. Not a "spice up the show" tool

[Whyzars]

4. The lapped cars stayed a lap down (afterall they have actually lost a lap, so why should they get it back) and drop to the back of the snake. That would only take 1 lap from when the signal was given.

5. The fifth option I thought of came after someone said that option 4 might be dangerous.
So how about once the crashed car has been removed and instead of a lapped cars may overtake signal, (which takes 4 laps to resolve) they instead give a "lapped cars drive through the pits signal"
My thinking was, that the snake will probably have been out already for 3 or 4 laps for the incident. So all the cars will be in a que. So if all the lapped cars amongst the snake come in and drive through the pits, then all the lead lap cars will be left behind the SC in order, the lapped cars are also in race order and then come out of the other end of the pitlane but at the back of the snake, leaving the restart clear after just 1 lap from giving the signal or 2 at most, rather than the current 4 or 5.

Anyway those are the 5 options I would think are best.

What are you all thinking about it? Because its clear to me its just a waste of racing laps. If 3 SC's come out in a race and we wait 4 laps for each that can be 10-12 laps of the race under needless SC

I've always thought #4 with radios used to sort the order out. I'd give them the lap back though.

They don't weave much or heat the tyres now because it wastes fuel so will be even safer today.


#5 is a good option too. They could use the pit lane as you say. Makes sense actually.

I've never understood having cars flying whilst there is a safety car on track. Sort of an accident waiting to happen if you know what I mean.

[Storm]

There was nothing wrong with the old way to begin with. Why make it more complicated (even though 4/5 are sensible options too)

[schmenke]

I'm not convinced that using the pit lane is sensible. There are always lots of people in or near the pit lane, especially if there may be a car or two legitamately being serviced. To have several cars going through in short period of time may compromise saftey.

[MacFeegle]

SC should come out in front of lead car and everyone else hold exact position. Why should lead driver be beom when he already overtake a car and 2nd has not. Make 2nd car do the work lead driver already has

[MacFeegle]

Sorry, beom local term. let you work it out but involve bottom :)

How can I change first post

[anfield5]

I have always maintained that when a safety car comes out the race is frozen. I.e. lapped cars stay in place.

Why should the leader be penalised, he has overtaken the lapped cars on track which inevitably costs time, so why should the cars behind him be given a free pass?

Oops this sounds exactly like McFeegle's previous entry

[Storm]

Sorry, beom local term. let you work it out but involve bottom :)

How can I change first post
You can use the Edit Post button at the bottom :p:

[steveaki13]

I have always maintained that when a safety car comes out the race is frozen. I.e. lapped cars stay in place.

Why should the leader be penalised, he has overtaken the lapped cars on track which inevitably costs time, so why should the cars behind him be given a free pass?

Oops this sounds exactly like McFeegle's previous entry

Its true though.

That's how it should be. Its not a race "Spicing up" tool.

After this was first implemented didn't they remove it the following season only to have a carnage race in Brazil where lapped cars caused havoc on a restart. (Which I personally enjoyed) The trouble was many got up in arms because lapped cars had ruined the race (which was only close because of the SC anyway)

2010 or 2011 Brazilian GP it must have been. Then they returned the unlapping rule the following season and we have had it ever since.

[AndyL]

Its true though.

That's how it should be. Its not a race "Spicing up" tool.

After this was first implemented didn't they remove it the following season only to have a carnage race in Brazil where lapped cars caused havoc on a restart. (Which I personally enjoyed) The trouble was many got up in arms because lapped cars had ruined the race (which was only close because of the SC anyway)

2010 or 2011 Brazilian GP it must have been. Then they returned the unlapping rule the following season and we have had it ever since.

My recollection is that a Singapore GP led to the reintroduction of cars unlapping themselves. Vettel was leading, Button was second, and there were a couple of backmarkers - a Caterham and something else I think - between them. Then the safety car came out and closed up the field. Vettel bolted on the restart and the lapped cars started having their own fight, and by the time Button had cleared them Vettel had built up a 10 second lead.
Of course before the safety car, Vettel had a lead of 15 seconds or more, so it was still a net benefit for the chasing cars.

[Bagwan]

Re-setting the grid in any way makes no sense at all to me .

Those behind already get the field compressed , and so , a big advantage .
So , why extract the backmarkers from the mix as well ?

Those drivers will get the blue flags anyway , on that first lap out .
Just make sure those cars are held to the rules , as they would be on any other lap .

There is no need to do this , and , indeed , real reason to not do this , from a sporting point of view , because it is simply , not fair .

[steveaki13]

Re-setting the grid in any way makes no sense at all to me .

Those behind already get the field compressed , and so , a big advantage .
So , why extract the backmarkers from the mix as well ?

Those drivers will get the blue flags anyway , on that first lap out .
Just make sure those cars are held to the rules , as they would be on any other lap .

There is no need to do this , and , indeed , real reason to not do this , from a sporting point of view , because it is simply , not fair .

like

[pob]

Imagine you're a driver of a one of the new teams. It's near the end of the race and you're chasing down the guy in 10th. You're gaining him at a fast enough rate to have a good chance of overtaking him and scoring a historic first points finish for your underdog team.
You get blue flagged as the two Mercedes come flying past you on their way to lapping the field. Just as you let them by, Maldonado comes out of the pits, punting out Gutierrez once again and the safety car is brought out while the mess is tidied up.
Without the rule to let backmarkers unlap themselves, you would now lose nearly a whole lap to the guy in front of you, and now have no chance of scoring that precious first point unless one of the cars in front retires. How is this fair from a sporting perspective?

It should be possible nowadays for there to be a red flag followed by a staggered start with the original gaps maintained. If tyre warmers are banned next year, then I don't see much downside to this. There wouldn't even be a need for a safety car anymore, except for rolling starts if it was deemed too wet for a standing start.

[steveaki13]

Imagine you're a driver of a one of the new teams. It's near the end of the race and you're chasing down the guy in 10th. You're gaining him at a fast enough rate to have a good chance of overtaking him and scoring a historic first points finish for your underdog team.
You get blue flagged as the two Mercedes come flying past you on their way to lapping the field. Just as you let them by, Maldonado comes out of the pits, punting out Gutierrez once again and the safety car is brought out while the mess is tidied up.
Without the rule to let backmarkers unlap themselves, you would now lose nearly a whole lap to the guy in front of you, and now have no chance of scoring that precious first point unless one of the cars in front retires. How is this fair from a sporting perspective?

It should be possible nowadays for there to be a red flag followed by a staggered start with the original gaps maintained. If tyre warmers are banned next year, then I don't see much downside to this. There wouldn't even be a need for a safety car anymore, except for rolling starts if it was deemed too wet for a standing start.

Answer is be fast enough not to be lapped. ;)

Honestly though that is tough luck IMO. Its something that happens. You had been lapped at that time and the car ahead had not. Simple as that.

May be harsh but I believe race positions (lapped as well) should be maintained.

[Mia 01]

Thoose who have been lapped is at the back again and for that matter could score some points if they are lucky.

I like it as it is now.

[MacFeegle]

Bagwan is right.

FIA try to make F1 into Disney with false rules. Its drivers job to get past lapped car. In old days there was no flag so they still have it easy. FIA want to wrap them in nappy and kiss them to sleep.

[Whyzars]

Answer is be fast enough not to be lapped. ;)



Actually the answer is to drive for Team Mercedes.

If the Mercs go hard in China they should lap the entire field.

Will that many cars be sent around to unlap themselves or will it be easier to just call it square? :D