PastorDonkey of the Race

[steveaki13]

Pretty easy for me.

[dj_bytedisaster]

no contest

[Robinho]

Absolutely, should get all 12 points on his licence in one go

[Ranger]

Very clumsy.

Also notice that again the low front wing just lifted the car above into the air - made it look a little worse than it was.

Nonetheless Maldonado will be lucky not to get a ban for that one.

[Tazio]

PastorDonkey of the Race.......simple!

[longisland]

Hands down. Señor crashonado

[truefan72]

pastor, but it wasn't as egregious as people make it out to be
guiterrez is partially to blame for completely failing to look in his mirrors
i say 65-35 maldonado

honorable mention to ted kravitz, for various stupid comments

[steveaki13]

pastor, but it wasn't as egregious as people make it out to be
guiterrez is partially to blame for completely failing to look in his mirrors
i say 65-35 Maldonado

honorable mention to ted kravitz, for various stupid comments

But Maldonado came out of the pits and Gutierrez mirrors were pointing down the track. Maldonado effectively came from no where and ran into Gutierrez.

Plus cars are meant to obey blue flag conditions coming out of the pits, i.e not cause contact and be the first to yield.

Anyway

Maldonado is my out and out Donkey of the Race.

Also remember Bianchi and Sutil colliding so early to ruin there races. They also deserve a mention.

Maybe McLaren too, for being slowest of the Merc cars and a double retirement is poor too.

[truefan72]

Also remember Bianchi and Sutil colliding so early to ruin there races. They also deserve a mention.

Maybe McLaren too, for being slowest of the Merc cars and a double retirement is poor too.

yup forgot about that incident
not sure who was at fault or if it was a racing incident

as to mclaren, yeah, they are giving valuable early season points

[AndyL]

Maybe McLaren too, for being slowest of the Merc cars and a double retirement is poor too.

I don't know about the slowest. Magnussen didn't have a great weekend but Button was pretty much identical on pace with the Force Indias and Williams. Without the safety car and the gearbox problem McLaren would have finished comfortably ahead of Williams.

[truefan72]

I don't know about the slowest. Magnussen didn't have a great weekend but Button was pretty much identical on pace with the Force Indias and Williams. Without the safety car and the gearbox problem McLaren would have finished comfortably ahead of Williams.

true, credit where credit is due, the mclaren was on pace today
at least in button's hands
in retrospect, it was williams who probably rue the lost points and safety car

[Dave B]

Donkey of the race is Maldonado by a country mile.

Donkey of the decade is whoever decided we have to wait 10 minutes for the slow cars to unlap themselves before the SC comes in.

[steveaki13]

Donkey of the race is Maldonado by a country mile.

Donkey of the decade is whoever decided we have to wait 10 minutes for the slow cars to unlap themselves before the SC comes in.

Hi Dave nice to see you post again.

I agree about that. I suggested lapped cars falling to the back. Which I still stand by.

Someone said it would be dangerous, but surely if its announced to all drivers then they could pull to the inside of a straight or even all lapped cars drive through the pits, then they snake of lead lap cars would go through and the lapped cars can then just rejoin at the back and there need not be any passing on track. What about that?

[The Black Knight]

My donkey of the race is Maldonado.

And, since he has been donkey of the year the past two seasons as well, I'm just going to give him the inevitable donkey title for this season too. He's an utterly incompetent driver that should have never been put on the formula one grid. It's a sad state for F1 when a clown like him gets a race seat and someone like Paul DiResta doesn't.

[steveaki13]

2 questions.

Did he already have any points on his license before today?

Do we know if he has or will get any driver license points for today?

[steveaki13]

Excuse me while I interrupt myself.

Maldonado has been given a 5 placed grid drop for China and has had 3 points put on his license.

For me it should have been 5 or 6 points. That was well worth half a race ban for me. I mean if he did that again he is potentially only half way to a ban. In my mind if he does that again he deserves a ban.

[COD]

no contest

Agree. Easy pick

[Mekola]

Pastor is the obvious donkey of the race. That manoeuvre on Gutiérrez is sick.

[Storm]

Donkey of the race is Maldonado by a country mile.

Donkey of the decade is whoever decided we have to wait 10 minutes for the slow cars to unlap themselves before the SC comes in.

this post sums it up.

[aryan]

Of course Maldonado, no doubt. I do hope he gets a race ban. A 10-second stop and go penalty when he wasn't in the points anyway is meaningless.

The Donkey team of the race is actually Williams IMO. They had the second fastest package when the season started I believe, and at the end of race 3, how many points do they have to show for it? A bunch of 7th and 8th places is not what that car was capable of.

[henners88]

Maldonado simply galvanised my dislike for him even more with yet another dense moment. This guy hasn't got the intelligence to compete in Formula One and I really don't know what he thought he was achieving by ramming into the side of the Sauber. I also think it is about time the governing body re-structured their penalty system too as the penalty for Ricciardo was far more harsh than a 10 second stop and go penalty Pastor got for something that could have been even more dangerous. The guy is a waste of a seat IMO.

[Koz]

pastor, but it wasn't as egregious as people make it out to be
guiterrez is partially to blame for completely failing to look in his mirrors
i say 65-35 maldonado

That was my first thought, but he was probably too far out to be in sight.

My thoughts are that Guti may have braked a little too late and went deeper?

But, Maldonado just went straight through the corner.

It is clear that he has no respect for anyone on track. Nothing new. He doesn't belong in F1.
He should have lost his super license when he swiped Hamilton 3 years ago IMO.

[SGWilko]

Very clumsy.

Also notice that again the low front wing just lifted the car above into the air - made it look a little worse than it was.

Nonetheless Maldonado will be lucky not to get a ban for that one.

Closer analysis showed that the tyres touching caused the flip - that and the nut behind the Lotus wheel!

[steveaki13]

Closer analysis showed that the tyres touching caused the flip - that and the nut behind the Lotus wheel!

I think you are correct.

It never appeared to me to be a nose issue.

How does it go? There is no suggest thing as a dangerous nose, its the guy who is steering it.

[The Black Knight]

That was my first thought, but he was probably too far out to be in sight.

My thoughts are that Guti may have braked a little too late and went deeper?

But, Maldonado just went straight through the corner.

It is clear that he has no respect for anyone on track. Nothing new. He doesn't belong in F1.
He should have lost his super license when he swiped Hamilton 3 years ago IMO.

I couldn't agree more. He is the worst driver on the grid and the most dangerous one. He shouldn't be allowed race. There is a fine line between hard racing and stupidity - a line which Maldonado crosses all the time. He doesn't know the difference between hard racing and nearly killing someone. I reckon if there is to be another fatality in F1 he will either be it or cause it. What a muppet he is!

[Bagwan]

This was not another case of Pastor losing his cool as he has done a few times in the past .

This was no swerve , and no brake-test .
It was simply a case of poorly judging how fast Gut was coming .

He screwed it up , yes .
But , there was no malice involved , no red mist , as in previous affairs , just poor judgement .

[henners88]

This was not another case of Pastor losing his cool as he has done a few times in the past .

This was no swerve , and no brake-test .
It was simply a case of poorly judging how fast Gut was coming .

He screwed it up , yes .
But , there was no malice involved , no red mist , as in previous affairs , just poor judgement .
There is a line that has to come though. Pastor has a list of red mist moments as long as your arm and he's been in the sport long enough now to judge his speed coming out of the pits. He nearly killed a marshal in Suzuka and again put one in intensive care at Monaco in his pre F1 racing career and its about time he took responsibility for his actions. Its only down to backhanders behind the scenes that his life time ban at Monaco was reduced to just a 9 race ban that year! He is unpredictable and shows no sign of getting better. We used to take the mick out of Grosjean but Pastor is consistently bad over a number of seasons with wheel to wheel stuff. It looked like a misjudgement yesterday, but for all we know he was frustrated Guiterrez had better speed and decided to give him a nudge. I remember him doing the same with Perez at Monaco a couple of years ago too. He needs a sanction or he will never learn IMHO.

[Bagwan]

There is a line that has to come though. Pastor has a list of red mist moments as long as your arm and he's been in the sport long enough now to judge his speed coming out of the pits. He nearly killed a marshal in Suzuka and again put one in intensive care at Monaco in his pre F1 racing career and its about time he took responsibility for his actions. Its only down to backhanders behind the scenes that his life time ban at Monaco was reduced to just a 9 race ban that year! He is unpredictable and shows no sign of getting better. We used to take the mick out of Grosjean but Pastor is consistently bad over a number of seasons with wheel to wheel stuff. It looked like a misjudgement yesterday, but for all we know he was frustrated Guiterrez had better speed and decided to give him a nudge. I remember him doing the same with Perez at Monaco a couple of years ago too. He needs a sanction or he will never learn IMHO.

I think it was a genuine mistake , with no malice , and I think , in such a situation , the stewards would be well able to tell after talking with the drivers .

And , moreover , I think that , if he was even suspected of frustratedly giving him "a nudge" , he would have been dealing instantly with race bans .
That is extremely likely , given his history .

We all know him as an idiot when the red mist sweeps into his cockpit , but this wasn't one of those .
It was an honest screw up .

He made a mistake whilst not being a jerk .
Every driver makes mistakes . Every driver has errors of judgement .

This was not another example of his being hot-headed .

[henners88]

I didn't say he took him out in a moment of frustration, I suggested we have no idea whether he did or not. Pastor is usually quite cool in front of the cameras after incidents so I don't know how the stewards would able to tell. It's just another incident for pastor.

[N. Jones]

I have no problem joining the Maldonado group. How can a guy this reckless have a win under his belt?

[Ranger]

Closer analysis showed that the tyres touching caused the flip - that and the nut behind the Lotus wheel!

You're right - was thinking it might have been the same cause as Massa going a bit airborne in Melbourne.

[Bagwan]

I didn't say he took him out in a moment of frustration, I suggested we have no idea whether he did or not. Pastor is usually quite cool in front of the cameras after incidents so I don't know how the stewards would able to tell. It's just another incident for pastor.

Oh , come on , henners , my friend , you didn't say he took him out , but you certainly implied that that was a likely scenario .

Then , in this post , you doubt the stewards would be able to see through his calm exterior .

It is , as you say , just another incident for Pastor .
However , I believe it to be a typical driver mistake , instead of a typical Pastor red mist mistake .

I have an easier time forgiving that than his previous misty moments .

[Warriwa]

I have no problem joining the Maldonado group. How can a guy this reckless have a win under his belt?

I agree he is reckless, but he can be very quick. I would love to see him in a top drive just for entertainment value.

[Doc Austin]

Sometimes you just have to give a corner up and Pastor doesn't seem to realize that.

[Robinho]

i don't doubt that it was not a deliberate move, but that does not excuse the massive error in judgement. for me, that he was so incompetent to have done that by accident is almost worse than deliberatley being a dick.

he was clearly behind as he was overtaken when still exiting the pitlane. on exiting the pitlane you get blue flags t o give way to the cars on track, obviously he os free to race once clearing the pitlane, but he was behind and already in the braking zone. he was well behind and at the point he hit Guti - was pretty much heading straight on, not taking the corner. Had he been on the line/at an angle to take the corner, there was a cars width between Guti and the apex. he clearly got it well wrong in his haste to try and repass the sauber, and as usual his lack of thought caused a (huge) accident. his judgement is poor, time and time again. he makes bad decisions and also rash/hot headed manouvres and endangers people.

I will not miss him one bit when he leaves the sport, hopefully sooner rather than later, even if he is sometimes genuinely quick

[henners88]

Oh , come on , henners , my friend , you didn't say he took him out , but you certainly implied that that was a likely scenario .

Then , in this post , you doubt the stewards would be able to see through his calm exterior .
I'm opened minded about it and its a case of his past not really helping him. Its more than likely it was a loss of concentration or a misjudgement, but he really needs to stop crashing into other drivers with such regularity IMO.

[Doc Austin]

Sometimes you just have to give a corner up and Pastor doesn't seem to realize that.

I had another closer look at it and while Pastor deserves his share of the blame, all the Sauber had to do was leave him a little room and he would have sailed right past instead of landing on his lid. OK, maybe Pastor was wrong, but by now everyone knows to watch out for him and Guiterrez didn't. I'm calling that one 60/40 or maybe 70/30, but Pastor doesn't get all of the blame. If you know a guy is going to wreck you and you don't get out of the way, you have to share the blame, or at least a little of it.

[Bagwan]

I think at least a little of the blame for this incident needs to be put on the track designer as well .
Sending a car back onto the racing surface at a point just before the apex of a fast corner as they exit the pits isn't exactly a safe idea .
Feeding them in right after the corner would be easily doable there , I think .

This was an accident waiting to happen as someone was eventually going to misjudge the closing speed of the man on track .

[steveaki13]

I still maintain, Gutierrez unless his team tell him, would have had no idea at all Pastor had just come out of the pits.

Thus it has to be Pastors responsibility as he is 3 or 4 car lengths behind to avoid the incident when joining the main race traffic.

[Zico]

I think at least a little of the blame for this incident needs to be put on the track designer as well .
Sending a car back onto the racing surface at a point just before the apex of a fast corner as they exit the pits isn't exactly a safe idea .
Feeding them in right after the corner would be easily doable there , I think .

This was an accident waiting to happen as someone was eventually going to misjudge the closing speed of the man on track .


Good point. I don't think I'd give Guiterrez any portion of the blame, Pastor was blatantly in the wrong and just because he is extremely likely to be hot headed and unpredictable that doesn't mean everyone should tiptoe round about him.. that would just make him worse. He needs to learn to calm down and stop making ridiculous, 'do or die' moves.

Pastor to blame 70/30 with the track designer getting the 30 from me.

[MacFeegle]

I have been a watcher on this site for some time but am compelled to join just to ask what the hell are some of you on!!

We have a hot head leavin the pits on tires and brakes than aint up to speed and makes a tit of himself. Theres no excuses or defence. no 70/30 or 60/40. He was stupid and anyone turning a lap will say the same.

There was no intent in my opinion but a silly mistake that shouldnt happen in F1. What did Guti do wrong but take the natural line? How was he to know some South American blood had exceeded boiling point?

[Zico]

Spot on MacFeegle... my thoughts also.

Welcome to the forum btw, hope you continue with your blunt, 'no beating about the bush' forum posts. ;)

[MacFeegle]

Dont know any other way friend. Armchair jockey these days rather than hangin it out. Still rip a bit of island but only fun.

[airshifter]

I had another closer look at it and while Pastor deserves his share of the blame, all the Sauber had to do was leave him a little room and he would have sailed right past instead of landing on his lid. OK, maybe Pastor was wrong, but by now everyone knows to watch out for him and Guiterrez didn't. I'm calling that one 60/40 or maybe 70/30, but Pastor doesn't get all of the blame. If you know a guy is going to wreck you and you don't get out of the way, you have to share the blame, or at least a little of it.

Personally I think if it had been anyone other than Pastor most people would call it a racing incident. The impact speed was not very great, and the angle and tires caused the flip. Combined with the fact that Esteban left zero room when Pastor had already committed to his line, and there was nothing left to do but watch the collision.

I saw several times when impacts would have happened in the same way if not for the driver in front moving wide, knowing the driver behind was charging up the inside. While this certainly doesn't put any blame on Esteban, common sense dictates that to finish a race you avoid impacts. It's not as if it's the first time a person exiting the pits made the dive up the inside.


I also agree with Bagwan that track design dumps the pit exits in similar fashion on several tracks, and the design isn't well thought out.

[Mia 01]

There is a few hotheaded drivers on the grid, Maldonando is not the worst among them.

[airshifter]

I have been a watcher on this site for some time but am compelled to join just to ask what the hell are some of you on!!

We have a hot head leavin the pits on tires and brakes than aint up to speed and makes a tit of himself. Theres no excuses or defence. no 70/30 or 60/40. He was stupid and anyone turning a lap will say the same.

There was no intent in my opinion but a silly mistake that shouldnt happen in F1. What did Guti do wrong but take the natural line? How was he to know some South American blood had exceeded boiling point?

I won't speak for others, but I'm "on" about my close to four decades of watching every F1 race and if I remove Pastors past mistakes, I see it as something most would consider a racing incident. When a driver is accelerating into a braking zone fractions of a second decide if it works or goes wrong, with those fractions often depending on who blinks first. The list of drivers having made such mistakes is very, very long and includes many title holders and those they battled with on track for the titles. I'm actually hard pressed to think of a drivers champion who didn't do something stupid at some point in their career and quite a few did it often.

Kimi, Ricciardo, Felipe, Valteri, both Nico and Lewis, Hulk and at least a couple others would have all been involved in on track incidents if they didn't alter lines to allow an inside car space. And I could name quite a few great names in F1 who have been in the same situation and left room, as well as some of those great names who got it wrong. Though I certainly don't rate Pastor or Esteban among those greats, they are racing drivers and as such at times much take risks based on those fractions of a second.


And welcome to the forums!

[MacFeegle]

People make mistakes but some make a lot and dangerous too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQJ3R2Kt64

Guti left a bit of room on the inside and Pastor just clashes into the side. Yet some on here say Guti is partly responsible. I dont get it. 40 years of racing armchairs doesn't compete with something 10 years old learn in karts.

Sorry and thanks for welcome.

[airshifter]

People make mistakes but some make a lot and dangerous too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQJ3R2Kt64

Guti left a bit of room on the inside and Pastor just clashes into the side. Yet some on here say Guti is partly responsible. I dont get it. 40 years of racing armchairs doesn't compete with something 10 years old learn in karts.

Sorry and thanks for welcome.

But it takes two to tangle up, and Esteban had plenty of track himself, even though "ahead".

As for the armchair comment, that's time watching F1. Before my first competition (motocross not karts) I had already figured out that two moving vehicles can't occupy the same space. And having lived through the era of crappy brakes on motorcycles, I've seen people much more skilled than me yield to drivers much less skilled than Pastor. You can't win if you don't finish.

[MacFeegle]

Makes as much sense as saying the person thats shot contributes to the crime.

When its 50-50 then give some room but this was a butt bumping out of nowhere. Sometimes its racing, this was stupidity.

[airshifter]

I maintain that if it hadn't been Pastor, most people wouldn't have thought twice about it. And I've already given a bunch of examples where in the same race the same would have happened to others that didn't yield to a car that obviously wasn't going to stop.

Without doubt Pastor was the primary cause, but the smart driver on the opposing end of that changes line and keeps racing. Forcing the issue won't help the driver or the team.

[Doc Austin]

I don't remember who it was, but he really dive bombed Kimmi at the last second, and Kimmi ran wide, got out of his way and managed to stay in the race. Clearly Guiterrez ain't no Kimmi.

[MacFeegle]

Pastor keeping style going in China. Becoming the butt for jokes up and down pit now.