2014 Malaysian GP Thread

[steveaki13]

Well it was an eventful opening race of the championship in Oz and now F1 circus rolls into Kuala Lumpar for Round 2.

We wonder if it will settle down for Race 2, I personally hope not. ;)

Drivers Championship standings after 1 Round
1. Nico Rosberg - 25 pts
2. Kev Magnussen - 18 pts
3. Jenson Button - 15 pts
4. Fernando Alonso - 12 pts
5. Valteri Bottas - 10 pts
6. Nico Hulkenberg- 8 pts
7. Kimi Raikkonen - 6 pts
8. JE Vergne - 4 pts
9. Danii Kyvat - 2 pts
10. Sergio Perez - 1 pt

Constructors Standings after 1 Round
1. McLaren - 33 pts
2. Mercedes - 25 pts
3. Ferrari - 18 pts
4. Williams - 10 pts
5. Force India - 9 pts
6. Toro Rosso - 6 pts

2014 Malaysian Grand Prix, Sepang, Kuala Lumpar.

Times are Local and (UK times). (Sorry about that :vampire: )
FP1: 28th March -10:00am -11:30am - (2am-3:30am)
FP2: 28th March -14:00pm - 15:30pm - (6am-7:30am)

FP3: 29th March - 13:00pm - 14:00pm - (5am-6am)
Quali: 29th March - 16:00pm- (8am)

Race: 30th March - 16:00pm - (9am)

Race Length: 56 Laps

Previous Winners at Sepang.
1999: Eddie Irvine - Ferrari
2000: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2001: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2002: Ralf Schumacher - Williams
2003: Kimi Raikkonen - Mclaren
2004: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2005: Fernando Alonso - Renault
2006: Giancarlo Fisichella - Renault
2007: Fernando Alonso - Mclaren
2008: Kimi Raikkonen - Ferrari
2009: Jenson Button - Brawn
2010: Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull
2011: Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull
2012: Fernando Alonso - Ferrari
2013: Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull

Michael Schumacher - 3 wins
Fernando Alonso - 3 wins
Sebastian Vettel - 3 wins
Kimi Raikkonen - 2 wins
Eddie Irvine - 1 win
Ralf Schumacher - 1 win
Giancarlo Fisichella - 1 win
Jenson Button - 1 win

*Alonso or Vettel could become most successful driver around here if they wins.

Ferrari - 6 wins
Red Bull - 3 wins
Renault - 2 wins
Mclaren - 2 wins
Williams - 1 win
Brawn - 1 win

* Ferrari are the masters around Sepang.

So there we go.


Another weekend of wondering if the race will have to be abandoned due to a monsoon.

[jens]

Several questions before this race weekend. The matters, which were left open after Australia.

More specifically: How fast can Vettel go in that Red Bull? Because in Australia we didn't get any answer to that.
Also, how far up can Williams get? Because in Australia they had a compromised weekend, starting with midfield grid positions in wet qualifying. Wet conditions could be their weakness, like it was for Lotus last year. But if conditions are perfect, can Williams get a podium?

Other than that. How consistent is Magnussen? Can he fight against Button on a regular basis across all circuits on the calendar? Can he do it in Malaysia?

Can Lotus run more properly and a bit better now?

Ferrari was struggling with electrical issues in Australia. Can they run better now and prove that they are actually more competitive? Can Räikkönen find a better setup this time around? I remember 2012. He was a bit invisibile in Australia, but suddenly up there in the Malaysian GP qualifying. Similar thing in 2008 in the Ferrari.

Hamilton is desperate for 25 points here to make up for the lost ground in Oz and capitalize on Mercedes early-season pace advantage. Just noticed he is yet to win a race in Malaysia. How can Rosberg stack up against him? Last year they had an uncomfortable team order situation, but now Ross Brawn isn't there any more to give the calls.

What if it rains? It is certainly a possibility, either in qualifying or in the race. And if that's the case, you may want to watch out for Renault-powered teams, because they seem to go pretty well in the wet. Perhaps it is because the HP deficiency doesn't matter so much in the wet and general drivability (Renault's strength) matters more. So if it is wet, maybe Red Bull can threaten the general favourite Mercedes themselves for the win?

[AndyL]

Might want to check those UK times Steve, don't forget the clocks go forward this weekend :) Wouldn't want to get up an unnecessary hour early on Sunday!

[henners88]

Its the first race of the season on live television in Britain so Malaysia is effectively the season opener! Looking forward to this one and hopefully the FIA have worked out how to turn on the Ferrari KERS and Kimi's DRS at this round lol. Would be nice to have a battle at the front. It would also be nice to have two Merc's in the race too as with the pace they have we could see two very comparable drivers fighting it out. Australia looked all too easy for Nico with no challenge, this era was supposed to stop that. :)

[AndyL]

Australia looked all too easy for Nico with no challenge, this era was supposed to stop that. :)

No it was supposed to stop Vettel having it easy with no challenge, so the changes were quite successful ;)

[henners88]

No it was supposed to stop Vettel having it easy with no challenge, so the changes were quite successful ;)
It would have been cheaper to give Mercedes the Red Bull car and vice versa. I've waited 6 years for Lewis to have another shot at the championship and I'll be damned if it turns into a walk with a brief team mate tussle! I want a championship and a fight! :)

[steveaki13]

Might want to check those UK times Steve, don't forget the clocks go forward this weekend :) Wouldn't want to get up an unnecessary hour early on Sunday!

As James May would say..... Oh Cock

Have altered Sundays race time for UK. Cheers Andy

[moto99]

apparently they forced families of people from the missing boeing form the hotels to make room for the F1 circus...

[henners88]

apparently they forced families of people from the missing boeing form the hotels to make room for the F1 circus...
Hotel's can't turn away Ferrari and other team personnel who have had long term reservations. The families were moved elsewhere.

[moto99]

they have to move them far away from circut to not spoil the fiesta

[kfzmeister]

Another weekend of wondering if the race will have to be abandoned due to a monsoon.

Kimi already has plan B worked out! ;-)

[kfzmeister]

If Mercedes again is the dominant car, it will get dicey upfront with Nico and HAM!

[Koz]

Apparently the McLaren have caffeine in their drink bottles.

And Grosjean's Lotus fails, and he has to push it himself....

[Koz]

And Pastor blows his engine.

But the Marshals are having fun pushing the cars around!

[Tazio]

I'm kind of busy watching SDSU playing ariazoa in the NCAA "Round ball" tournament, but it's so far so good for Kimi and State :dork:

[Tazio]

double post :dork:

[Tazio]

Triple bro post (too busy watching the game) I'm going for four :dork:

[Koz]

...And Grosjean's Lotus fails yet again. What a bummer.

[Tazio]

Kimi says he is getting comfortable in the F14T, bad news for the rest of the field.....I hope :dork:

[Mia 01]

Thats my hope to Tazio, but, tomorrow and on Sunday, we will see.

[steveaki13]

From watching the practice sessions I got the impression that most teams were asking their drivers to drive at 80% to save the cars.

I imagine the times will be a lot faster coming Quali and thus todays times become irrelevant

Lotus are the biggest issue once more. They still cant seem to run any decent amount of laps.

I mean Maldonado blew up and spent FP2 with his car in bits and I think Grosjean broke down 3 times.

I can see the team fold at the end of the season, if they cant improve things. I mean when they actually run they are still only 17th-20th type speed.

Slow and unreliable. That's about as bad as a racing car gets.

Mercedes still seem the fastest. Red Bull seemed slow early on, but by the end they seemed to have improved pace.

[minardi]

Based on practice team-wise, it seems Mercedes are lightyears ahead, followed by (in order) Ferrari, Red Bull and then Williams slightly adrift. Hulkenberg's Force India is sniffing around the top six and the McLarens are somewhere in there too but impossible to say exactly where with their problems this morning. I'd say they're around the Williams pace, but might be just behind as they're playing catch-up having not set a timed lap this morning.

The threat of rain for the latter part of qualifying could make it very interesting and could pull Toro Rosso into the mix for top 10. As for the rest, I think we all know the order in the second half of the grid pretty much.

[henners88]

I've got a feeling Hamilton will stick his lawn mower on pole even if Nico was two Tenths up in practice. The bookies are not open yet however.

[minardi]

Judging by the BBC guys starting to get work, looks like the rain has come earlier than expected. Good opportunity for the backmarkers to sneak through to Q2 if it persists.

[henners88]

The rain should spice things up, it's very heavy by the looks so a mixed grid with the Mercs fighting through might be exciting.

[Tazio]

Mercedes is threatening to run away with this thing before they even get to Austria. Hooray for their fans I guess. :dozey: ;)

[journeyman racer]

att: Europeans

Thanks for nothing.

[N4D13]

Whoops. That was a very bizarre accident from Kyvat and Alonso. :-/

[jens]

So quali is over.

Front row for the drivers, who got a DNF in Australia and want to get some points on board now! As expected, Red Bull can be threatening in the wet and Vettel is right up there with Hamilton and between the two Mercedes, so if it is wet in tomorrow's race it can be a great battle. In the dry though I suspect Mercedes will disappear into the horizon unless they have significant tyre wear issues.

Ferrari running better too, so first three teams this time are comfortably the three "factory" teams as they call it. Something we are going to see much more regularly during the rest of the season, also in the dry?

Hülkenberg doing his usual solid job behind the big teams. And Toro Rossos and even the Lotus of Grosjean showing promise in wet conditions.

Was Australia just a suitable circuit for McLaren, and they happened to capitalize on the opportunity well? Because as things stand, this performance very much reminds 2013.

Williams again not going well in the wet. Should once again be a strong damage limitation race for them if it is dry tomorrow.

[steveaki13]

Wow, that was a drawn out and incident filled Qualifying session.

Lewis Hamilton was good, but probably could have and should have improved a tad, but for going off on that final run.

It seems though with its excepted better downforce that Red Bull can challenge in the wet, a great effort by Vettel after what looked like more issues with the car in Q1.

An exciting front row for tomorrow providing rain doesn't cancel the race.

Despite it being 3rd I think Nico will be happy. It seems as though in early dry pace he should be able to jump Vettel down a straight some where. Although if Mercedes are having issues with tyre wear then it may get exciting again later on.

A 2nd Row for Alonso is a real bonus. It appeared that 5th was the best to hope for in the wet, but Fernando managed to leap Ricciardo for 5th. Both will be satisfied with those positions I think.

Kimi in 6th seems to round off the top 3 teams this qualifying session.

I think from then on, it is anyones race from 7th-15th, so Nico Hulkenberg again shows his class and 7th leaves him in a good position for the race. Although maybe with an eye on McLaren and Williams.

Kev Magnussen again out qualifying JB, and most of the session he was ahead, of course Jenson gambled on Inters in the last part, but after early troubles I think Magnussen can be happy with 8th.

Toro Rosso again looking good in the wet conditions. 9th for JEV and 11th for Kyvat.

Jenson Button had another ordinary day really. Gamble never looked like paying off. I expect he will move forward tomorrow.

Kyvat getting into trouble with Alonso a couple of times in Quali, but a decent job. Although I guess he might get a penalty for hitting Alonso, although I thought Alonso looked like he was yielding in the corner and then turned in. So I guess Danii thought the same.

It wont get noticed but Esteban Gutierrez actually did a good job for 12th, I thought.
The Sauber is slow and heavy but he did a decent job.

Felipe Massa and Williams must be scratching their heads. In the dry the still look quick (albeit not as fast as Oz) but once the rain comes, 13th only. Hope they can move forward tomorrow. Williams need to improve the car otherwise they will tumble down the grid.

Sergio Perez in 14th seems way off Nico Hulknebergs pace generally and starts a mediocre 14th.

Same again for Bottas and Williams. 15th and potentially worse if he is found guilty of Blocking on Ricciardo. He will need to hope its dry.

Romain Grosjean I thought did a good job today, despite only being 16th/15th on the grid. In Q1 he was 14th or something and looked more on the pace of midfield today.

Same for Maldonado. 17th/16th depending on Penalty for Bottas. I mean he did virtually nothing yesterday so to get himself ahead of the backmarkers is a decent effort. Lotus now need to make sure they get themselves to the end.

Adrian Sutil looked slow and sluggish all weekend really. And 18th seems about right for Sauber this year. Battling Lotus to stay ahead of backmarkers.

I though one of the backmarker drivers might end up in Q2 in the rain. Disappointing really.
Jules Bianchi actually was quite a bit faster in 19th than the other 3 backmarkers. He was only 7 tenths off Sutil and 8 tenths ahead of Kobayashi. Decent effort really. Kobyashi 20th will be OK I suppose. I look forward to him racing Bianchi for the lead of Division2.

The back row is as expected really. Chilton after a good weekend in Australia struggled more here. Can he keep his finishing run going from 21st.

Ericcson starting last had that strange crash, which was a silly error. He will look to finish the race I guess.

Looking forward to the race tomorrow. I hope if it rains it is raceable rain. Not monsoon that abandons the event.

[zako85]

It's quite a treat to watch these rainy qualifying sessions, now that we haven't seen them for a whole year. The top 8 starting grid is amazing. Hamilton, Vettel, Rosberg, and Alonso are starting next to each other. I couldn't have asked for more. Those of you recording the broadcast on DVR or VHS tape, make sure to add a couple of hours of slack time to the recording because of weather conditions.

[truefan72]

Wow, that was a drawn out and incident filled Qualifying session.

Lewis Hamilton was good, but probably could have and should have improved a tad, but for going off on that final run.

It seems though with its excepted better downforce that Red Bull can challenge in the wet, a great effort by Vettel after what looked like more issues with the car in Q1.

An exciting front row for tomorrow providing rain doesn't cancel the race.

Despite it being 3rd I think Nico will be happy. It seems as though in early dry pace he should be able to jump Vettel down a straight some where. Although if Mercedes are having issues with tyre wear then it may get exciting again later on.

A 2nd Row for Alonso is a real bonus. It appeared that 5th was the best to hope for in the wet, but Fernando managed to leap Ricciardo for 5th. Both will be satisfied with those positions I think.

Kimi in 6th seems to round off the top 3 teams this qualifying session.

I think from then on, it is anyones race from 7th-15th, so Nico Hulkenberg again shows his class and 7th leaves him in a good position for the race. Although maybe with an eye on McLaren and Williams.

Kev Magnussen again out qualifying JB, and most of the session he was ahead, of course Jenson gambled on Inters in the last part, but after early troubles I think Magnussen can be happy with 8th.

Toro Rosso again looking good in the wet conditions. 9th for JEV and 11th for Kyvat.

Jenson Button had another ordinary day really. Gamble never looked like paying off. I expect he will move forward tomorrow.

Kyvat getting into trouble with Alonso a couple of times in Quali, but a decent job. Although I guess he might get a penalty for hitting Alonso, although I thought Alonso looked like he was yielding in the corner and then turned in. So I guess Danii thought the same.

It wont get noticed but Esteban Gutierrez actually did a good job for 12th, I thought.
The Sauber is slow and heavy but he did a decent job.

Felipe Massa and Williams must be scratching their heads. In the dry the still look quick (albeit not as fast as Oz) but once the rain comes, 13th only. Hope they can move forward tomorrow. Williams need to improve the car otherwise they will tumble down the grid.

Sergio Perez in 14th seems way off Nico Hulknebergs pace generally and starts a mediocre 14th.

Same again for Bottas and Williams. 15th and potentially worse if he is found guilty of Blocking on Ricciardo. He will need to hope its dry.

Romain Grosjean I thought did a good job today, despite only being 16th/15th on the grid. In Q1 he was 14th or something and looked more on the pace of midfield today.

Same for Maldonado. 17th/16th depending on Penalty for Bottas. I mean he did virtually nothing yesterday so to get himself ahead of the backmarkers is a decent effort. Lotus now need to make sure they get themselves to the end.

Adrian Sutil looked slow and sluggish all weekend really. And 18th seems about right for Sauber this year. Battling Lotus to stay ahead of backmarkers.

I though one of the backmarker drivers might end up in Q2 in the rain. Disappointing really.
Jules Bianchi actually was quite a bit faster in 19th than the other 3 backmarkers. He was only 7 tenths off Sutil and 8 tenths ahead of Kobayashi. Decent effort really. Kobyashi 20th will be OK I suppose. I look forward to him racing Bianchi for the lead of Division2.

The back row is as expected really. Chilton after a good weekend in Australia struggled more here. Can he keep his finishing run going from 21st.

Ericcson starting last had that strange crash, which was a silly error. He will look to finish the race I guess.

Looking forward to the race tomorrow. I hope if it rains it is raceable rain. Not monsoon that abandons the event.

review is spot on :up:

[Tazio]

Thats my hope to Tazio, but, tomorrow and on Sunday, we will see.Mia, Kimi said this was his first time using full wets, and the car didn't feel right. This could be the first race that he and Fred race each other. I expect them to keep it civil as the lads have gotten on very well this season. :bomb: :devil:

[easy rider]

I've got a feeling Hamilton will stick his lawn mower on pole even if Nico was two Tenths up in practice. The bookies are not open yet however.

I hope that you was able to place that bet.

[Doc Austin]

God help me. I'm starting to like these cars.

[steveaki13]

Morning Guys/Girls and Donkey's.....

Nico Hulkenberg broke down coming out of the pitlane. Hope he makes the start

[donKey jote]

Hay gurlz ! :D

[steveaki13]

Its so quiet Donkey. Its only one Donkey and one Gurl as you put it. :D

[Koz]

Sup ppl!

Perez in pits??

[donKey jote]

and a koz ... :wave:

[Tazio]

:sailor: :dork: Dudes!

[pino]

Morning guys :D

[donKey jote]

stoopid bbc... I need a bigger monitor :p

[donKey jote]

hay pine tree ! :D

[donKey jote]

mia will be pleased :(
stoopid pirelli :dozey:

[Koz]

Who is Ricciardo holding Vettel up??!

MULTI 12!!!!

[donKey jote]

Red Bull team orders :p

[pino]

Poor Kimi :(

[donKey jote]

nice squeeze from Vettel on Rosberg at the start :sailor:

[steveaki13]

Sergio Perez looks sad

[dj_bytedisaster]

We've already learned one thing. In contrast to his predecessor Danny Boy definitely knows how to start a car race.

[pino]

Hej donkey !

[Koz]

If Bottas overtakes Massa, he'll be useless for the rest of the season...

[donKey jote]

balls ricciardo in front :p

[donKey jote]

bottas gets mugged :sailor:

[Koz]

The hell is Kimi doing?

A lap to pass THAT?!

He won't make it past a Marussia.

[steveaki13]

Ricciardo not going to drop back. He says he wants to be part of a battle

[donKey jote]

teehee ricciardo says no :p

[A FONDO]

the farce continues no matter what new regulations there are - "maintain the gap, keep your tyres...."

I will watch only the qualy from now on

[donKey jote]

hmmm so if ricciardo's flow sensor is "kaputt" the FIA have no choice but to believe RB's own values ... :bandit:

[steveaki13]

the farce continues no matter what new regulations there are - "maintain the gap, keep your tyres...."

I will watch only the qualy from now on

Yes. Its not ideal and it hasn't been for the last few years:(

[donKey jote]

balls Alo now losing a second per lap :(

[Tazio]

This has tuned into a real snoozefest

[henners88]

I know Vettel fans have loved watching him dominate over the past few years but as a Hamilton fan I have to say watching my driver have it so easy is incredibly boring. I really hope the rap is closed sooner rather than later. I've waited years to see Lewis have a decent stab at the championship and i'll be damned if it's going to be walked with no challenge :(

[donKey jote]

ooooh how exciting... overtaking down in P16 !!!

[henners88]

Rain please!!! Lol

[donKey jote]

and Magnusson in P12 sets fastest lap ....

[donKey jote]

Rain please!!! Lol

bernie needs sprinklers :p

[steveaki13]

I really hope the rap is closed sooner rather than later.

I also hope the rap is closed. I hate rap. Just loud noise. :p


Rain please!!! Lol

Would be good. Although the race would probably be red flagged

[steveaki13]

We all moaned about saving tyres and engines last year. This year will be even worse. Cars running at 80% at best.

F1 going further down a road which we don't want it to go down.

I don't mind the Turbo's but at least give maximum fuel so they can race as close to flat out as possible

[henners88]

Mind the rap :)

[steveaki13]

Kobyashi DRS-ing the Lotus and putting up a good fight

[steveaki13]

Lets talk about something more interesting.....

Mothers Day in the UK today.

[henners88]

Lets talk about something more interesting.....

Mothers Day in the UK today.

I've made a hand print card for my wife.... A little more interesting than the race :p

[steveaki13]

Just what the FIA wanted. A chance to put out a SC?

[steveaki13]

I've made a hand print card for my wife.... A little more interesting than the race :p

Has it got flowers on it or a racing car? :p

[donKey jote]

rain man :D

[steveaki13]

Rain Coming? say Kimi

[henners88]

Nope just a non V6 powered purple ink handprint of the babies hand. It sounds great too when you wave it around :)

[henners88]

I have been answered, let it rain, queue techno

[steveaki13]

Anyone on here watching F1, following BTCC or Indy Car later on?

[donKey jote]

Nope just a non V6 powered purple ink handprint of the babies hand. It sounds great too when you wave it around :)
does he/she like being waved around ? :p

[steveaki13]

does he/she like being waved around ? :p
:D

[donKey jote]

aww poor dani :(

[steveaki13]

Ricciardo proving he is Mark Webbers replacement. :(

[donKey jote]

meanwhile, Ham finally lets it rip... 1:44

[donKey jote]

and Alo too... 1 sec per lap on Hulk with 10 laps to go ...

[donKey jote]

kimi trying to pass grosjean :dozey:

[donKey jote]

I like Hulk :up:

[donKey jote]

teehee Bottas is faster than you, and has been the whole race :p

[donKey jote]

naughty squiggy won't give up :p

[donKey jote]

will he slow down on the finish line :p

[Koz]

Bottas! Come on!

[donKey jote]

well done Ham, Merc and Vettel :up:

[donKey jote]

Ferrari best of the rest :(

[donKey jote]

Well done the Hulk :up:up:, and RoGro for holding Kimi :rolleyes:

[donKey jote]

teehee German smalltalk :D

[donKey jote]

Massa confirms he ignored his bosses :p

[dj_bytedisaster]

Massa confirms he ignored his bosses :p

Funny how people screamed bloody murder about something like that just a year ago...

[donKey jote]

it's only Williams for P7/P8 so it doesn't count :p

[Koz]

Massa confirms he ignored his bosses :p

Oh dear, maybe Claire will spank him?

[dj_bytedisaster]

it's only Williams for P7/P8 so it doesn't count :p

Could it rather be that just not a driver you don't want to win was involved? ;)

[jens]

Huh, there are some pretty clear gaps between teams this year, so it reminds me some of the faraway past year. 1998, 2002, 2011 are just some examples of seasons, where drivers in races were often running in positions next-to-each-other. And for one driver to be many places behind his team-mate - well, he really had to underperform for that to happen. Currently only Pérez seems far behind Hülkenberg, the rest are running close.

However, reliability is soon almost as good as in the last few seasons.

Looks like Mercedes and Red Bull has swapped positions. Last year in Malaysia RB was running 1-2, Merc 3-4 and Ferrari (Massa) in 5th.

For me this is not boring yet, because the situation, pecking order, everything is so new I still watch the uniqueness of it. And I have a higher alert on reliability issues currently, half-expecting someone to retire any time soon. But I guess if this situation runs for the whole year, I'd get bored by the second half of the season, clearly.

Very sad for Ricciardo. He has had a very good start into the season, but is yet to score points! I liked the way he started the race and made a move on Vettel to grab third position. Great racy stuff. :)

Other than that...
Mercedes – class of the field in the dry. As long as they can hold their reliability, they should try to build a points lead. And this is vital for them, because with Red Bull – who seems to be a main rival – you never know, when they get back to winning ways.

Red Bull – promising race, Vettel finally got some points to keep his title hopes alive, alas Ricciardo still has to wait, even if potentially he could have been on 30 right now (18+12). This has been a big loss. Let's see, how does the in-season car and engine development go.

Ferrari – invisible start into the season, Alonso is racing somewhere just off the podium. He is doing a good points collecting, as usual, but is a bit too little for the championship. Ferrari's start into the season reminds a lot of 2011. Then also Ferrari was behind two teams (RBR & McLaren), Alonso got only 1 win all year and wasn't anywhere near the championship though collected lots of points. We are yet to see the full potential of Räikkönen, that was unlucky.

Force India – there has been a lot of talk that Hülkenberg should have got a top team seat and perhaps been hired by Ferrari, but fortunately for him the FI is pretty good right now combined with Merc. So in the points he is pretty well up there right now and hope that he can keep it up. Pérez hasn't adapted well to the car, he has potential for more than he is currently showing.

McLaren – yeah I guess Australia and street circuits were an exception for them. Despite superior Mercedes-engines were unable to race RBR/Ferrari and had to fend off Williams. Magnussen made a rookie mistake this time.

Williams – the usual post-crash Massa issue has shown again. Which means he is fast in qualifying, but fades in races. So now Valtteri is faster than him (that was a good joke :D), like Alonso used to be.

STR – solid job considering the engine deficit. Good start into the season by Kvyat.

Lotus – improvement for them, Grosjean wasn't far from points. Looking forward for more in the future. This time Maldonado was just unlucky.

Sauber – as Steve said after Australian GP, they look like Williams in 2011 or 2013.

Caterham – very promising race for them. I was looking at the time gaps and Kobayashi wasn't far behind the other Renault-powered teams (STR, Lotus) at all. And conversely Ericsson wasn't far behind Kobayashi. Good weekend, good reliability, and good fighting drive by KK, which has always characterised him.

Marussia – after Bianchi's crash were pretty invisible.

[donKey jote]

Could it rather be that just not a driver you don't want to win was involved? ;)
Could it be that somehow you might think I really care too much about team orders in one way or the other ? :sailor: :p

[janneppi]

IMO the Williams team order was unnecessary, or applied the the wrong way. I don't think Bottas was that much faster than Massa to challenge Button, if he was, he would have been on Massa's behind to push him.

[steveaki13]

IMO the Williams team order was unnecessary, or applied the the wrong way. I don't think Bottas was that much faster than Massa to challenge Button, if he was, he would have been on Massa's behind to push him.

This.

Spot on.

[steveaki13]

I enjoyed the race.

It wasn't a classic, but it was OK.

Lewis Hamilton was the class of the field along with his car. I don't remember one mistake and was always way clear of Rosberg.

Red Bull looked worryingly fast, but if they can give Mercedes a championship battle, then we will see a lot better season. I hope Ferrari could get into that as well.

[Tazio]

I'm waiting for members to start slagging Bottas like they would Zo for ;


Bottas, meanwhile, insisted over the radio that “I have more pace than him”.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/03/massa-believes-he-was-right-to-ignore-order-to-let-team-mate-bottas-past/

Personally I don't have a problem with it. Just another racer flapping his lips in the heat of battle. :dozey:

[janneppi]

Bottas's(?) radio comment was hilarious in he beginning when the team asked him to back off until both Massa and Bottas were ahead of Magnussen. "Then tell him to get on with it, I have more pace." :D

[Zico]

IMO the Williams team order was unnecessary, or applied the the wrong way. I don't think Bottas was that much faster than Massa to challenge Button, if he was, he would have been on Massa's behind to push him.

Yes, 100% yes!
If Bottas had made some moves on Massa, was on much fresher tyres and clearly much quicker I'd probably back the team order but telling Fellipe to move over because Bottas had fresher tyres (only 2 laps worth!) did not cut it for me.
I think Massa did the right thing. I feel Bottas only deserved to take Massas place if he overtook him fair and square on this occasion.

[Ranger]

I can see where Williams were coming from, but I disagree with their reason.

What if Bottas didn't catch Button anyway? Then Felipe would have just p*ssed away a position for no good reason.

Very unlucky for Ricciardo, who has a 10 second stop/go penalty AND a 10-place grid penalty in Bahrain for the same thing. :/

[Valve Bounce]

I can see that Ricciardo has inherited the Redbull anti-kangaroo bugs from Mark Webber. Car starts to slow, wheel not put on right and has to be pushed back to pits (what a joke), and then engine issues.
If this keeps up, Mark will be laughing all the way to the Porsche Racing Team after each F1 GP.

[Storm]

Doesn't seem to have the same issue with race starts though does he? :p:

[COD]

I can see where Williams were coming from, but I disagree with their reason.

What if Bottas didn't catch Button anyway? Then Felipe would have just p*ssed away a position for no :/

Well, at least they would have given the chance to the faster driver. No they will never no, because Bo77as was not even given the chance to try to pass Button

[Koz]

Huh, there are some pretty clear gaps between teams this year, so it reminds me some of the faraway past year. 1998, 2002, 2011 are just some examples of seasons, where drivers in races were often running in positions next-to-each-other. And for one driver to be many places behind his team-mate - well, he really had to underperform for that to happen. Currently only Pérez seems far behind Hülkenberg, the rest are running close.

Based on what exactly? A quali session that Kimi binned, from which even the might Seb suffered? Or the one in changing conditions? And a race he didn't start?

You are being very unfair.

[AndyL]

Yes, 100% yes!
If Bottas had made some moves on Massa, was on much fresher tyres and clearly much quicker I'd probably back the team order but telling Fellipe to move over because Bottas had fresher tyres (only 2 laps worth!) did not cut it for me.
I think Massa did the right thing. I feel Bottas only deserved to take Massas place if he overtook him fair and square on this occasion.

Yes exactly right. They were on the same strategy - as you say only 2 laps difference between their tyres, and they were on the more durable tyre as well if I recall correctly, so those 2 laps would make minimal difference. To me it looks like weak leadership on the Williams pit wall: they told Massa to pull over because Bottas had complained so much.

[AndyL]

Well, at least they would have given the chance to the faster driver. No they will never no, because Bo77as was not even given the chance to try to pass Button

That's assuming Bottas was in fact faster at that point, which is far from certain.
When he complained about having more pace earlier in the race, it turned out not to be true: once Magnussen got out of the way, Massa pulled out a gap on Bottas.

[Storm]

Nobody should be "given" a chance to pass Button or anybody else..if he was that much quicker he would have passed Massa on his own wihout whining to his team to make the call.

Also for some reason I completely missed why Perez wasn't even on the grid...

[Tazio]

Yes exactly right. They were on the same strategy - as you say only 2 laps difference between their tyres, and they were on the more durable tyre as well if I recall correctly, so those 2 laps would make minimal difference. To me it looks like weak leadership on the Williams pit wall: they told Massa to pull over because Bottas had complained so much. I have to agree Andy. I read in James Allen’s article that Massa was also running hot, and that if Buttas couldn't pass Button they were going to switch the places back, that IMO is micro managing their races which I don't like or even want to hear about TBH. Massa was ahead in the closing stages of probably the most physically demanding race of the season and was asked to give it up like a punk, not cool IMO

[COD]

That's assuming Bottas was in fact faster at that point, which is far from certain.
When he complained about having more pace earlier in the race, it turned out not to be true: once Magnussen got out of the way, Massa pulled out a gap on Bottas.

Were we watchin the same race? Bottas was 7secs behind Massa and caught him. If that is not faster, what is? Ok, he wasn't able to pass Massa, but wouldn't the most stupid thing be to make a risky move on your teammate and possibly ruin the race for both?

[AndyL]

Were we watchin the same race? Bottas was 7secs behind Massa and caught him.

Which proves that Bottas was faster at that point than Button; not necessarily that he was faster than Massa.

[Zico]

Were we watchin the same race? Bottas was 7secs behind Massa and caught him. If that is not faster, what is? Ok, he wasn't able to pass Massa, but wouldn't the most stupid thing be to make a risky move on your teammate and possibly ruin the race for both?

Yes, he reeled in 7 seconds and so yes faster but that was in clean air. Was Bottas waiting for Massa to just slow down? Why not show his intentions, make a (non desperado) move, show his alleged superior pace as any other driver would probably have done and if Massa blocked or defended it then Bottas would have had a strong case that Massa would have to answer.
We will never know but I very much doubt Bottas would have got past Button either.

[Tazio]

Were we watchin the same race? Bottas was 7secs behind Massa and caught him. If that is not faster, what is? Ok, he wasn't able to pass Massa, but wouldn't the most stupid thing be to make a risky move on your teammate and possibly ruin the race for both? One possibility is that Massa was cooling his engine, and deliberately slowed down. That is a factor, and according to James Allen was an issue.



According to Williams’ chief test and support engineer Rod Nelson the request was given to Massa as the team felt that Bottas could catch sixth-placed Jenson Button, and because Massa’s engine was running hot.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/03/massa-believes-he-was-right-to-ignore-order-to-let-team-mate-bottas-past/
How can we really know? :dork:

[steveaki13]

if Buttas couldn't pass Button

Is this your idea of an insult :laugh:

[Bagwan]

Mousa does it again .

Fire that little turd .
He impeded his team mate and would be freaking out if his team mate had done this kind of thing to him .

Team orders are legal because teams need to manage their drivers's egos during the races .

Little Mousa needs to learn he drives for a team and doesn't get to make the big decisions .

[Tazio]

Baggie, I don't agree with your with your assessment of the Massa-Buttass controversy. In fact I have new found respect for Felipe. If he would have taken that order the way it was presented it would have been total humiliation IMO. I'm quite happy FM didn't roll over and take it like a punk!
Is this your idea of an insult :laugh: Just some playfull clowning dawg! :dog: ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think Massa's race engineer has some questions to answer. Using almost the exact words that Ferrari broke his spirit with in 2010 is ridiculous.

Reviewing the pit-radio Bottas seems to be quite an arrogant full-of-himself jerk. Some of the things he said do not sound very team-player-ish to me.

[Mia 01]

I think Massa's race engineer has some questions to answer. Using almost the exact words that Ferrari broke his spirit with in 2010 is ridiculous.

Reviewing the pit-radio Bottas seems to be quite an arrogant full-of-himself jerk. Some of the things he said do not sound very team-player-ish to me.


On this I fully agree with you dj. If the race engineer feles ha can talk to felipe that way what are then Felipes status inside the team. And Bottas, well ha has to cool down quit a bit.

[zako85]

I was truly surprised to hear the team order to overtake Massa given to both Williams drivers. I think Williams is showing its true colors. They treat Massa as nothing but a cash cow who can't dare to be in front of Bottas. If Bottas is so good, why didn't he just overtake Massa, with or without the orders? The team order almost sounded like: "Massa, you're too old, let Bottas go ahead". This is of course very infuriating to F1 fans to hear. The primary interest in Williams this year is not because of Bottas, but because Massa is driving for the team.

IMHO of course.

[Bagwan]

Baggie, I don't agree with your with your assessment of the Massa-Buttass controversy. In fact I have new found respect for Felipe. If he would have taken that order the way it was presented it would have been total humiliation IMO. I'm quite happy FM didn't roll over and take it like a punk! Just some playfull clowning dawg! :dog: ;)

Bottas may well be a dick , but he was faster .
Mousa had his chance to get Button , and couldn't .

All this pussy "insensitive way it was done" crap is just that . Crap .

They should have said "Get the hell out of the way and let your team mate give it a try" .

If he would have taken that order , he would have been working for the good of the team , as a good team leader .
He could have said so when interviewed , and would have been instantly lauded for his effort for the team by the team .

They said they would have reversed the order if Bottas had not been able to make the Button pass , and they may well have done so .
All they have now is a pouting little whiner and a load of yack about those "unfair" Ferrari days .

This won't be the last time it happens , either .
"Nearly man" will do it again , and it won't be good for the team .

Fire the wee turd before he wrecks a good run .

[COD]

On the other hand, Massa feels he has nothing to loose. He has shown many times in the past he can be a team-player, no he can show he can be an a**h**e too

[AndyL]

Bottas may well be a dick , but he was faster .

How do you know this? All we can tell from the timing is that he was faster than Button.

He complained about having more pace than Massa earlier in the race too, when they were behind the other McLaren, but that turned out not to be the case: Massa pulled away from him after Magnussen pitted.

Can anyone think of cases in the past where a driver has been told to concede a place on the basis that his team-mate is going to do a better job of overtaking the driver in front? Or more to the point, an occasion when a driver has followed such an order?
At Monza 2011, for example, I don't recall McLaren ordering Hamilton to pull over and let Button have a go at Schumacher after he'd caught them both.

[Tazio]

Bottas may well be a dick , but he was faster .
Mousa had his chance to get Button , and couldn't .

All this pussy "insensitive way it was done" crap is just that . Crap .

They should have said "Get the hell out of the way and let your team mate give it a try" .

If he would have taken that order , he would have been working for the good of the team , as a good team leader .
He could have said so when interviewed , and would have been instantly lauded for his effort for the team by the team .

They said they would have reversed the order if Bottas had not been able to make the Button pass , and they may well have done so .
All they have now is a pouting little whiner and a load of yack about those "unfair" Ferrari days .

This won't be the last time it happens , either .
"Nearly man" will do it again , and it won't be good for the team .

Fire the wee turd before he wrecks a good run .

I'm not buying it Baggie. It is not worth 4 points in the second race of the season to ask a guy to punk out. How can anyone say that Bottas was faster than Phil-dawg (or Button) when Massa held him off quite handily? I also don't think they informed FM that he would get the place back if VB failed to pass Jense. The comment that you paraphrased was made after the race and smells of BS justification to me. Of course I respect your opinion, but I don't think I would like working for you. :bomb: :angel:
BTW I think that a blow hard petty tyrant is the real puss…..
How do you like those beans daddy-o :arrows: ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Fire the wee turd before he wrecks a good run .

Have you by any chance missed a few of your anger management classes?

[Koz]

On the other hand, Massa feels he has nothing to loose. He has shown many times in the past he can be a team-player, no he can show he can be an a**h**e too

I seem to remember, the Korean GP in 2012, where Mass was on the radio whining that he was faster than Fred and could catch Webber....

Why, he's not a hypocrite at all.

[kfzmeister]

Wondering what it does to a driver's psyche when he's heard it twice now. Not only that, but the rest of the world clearly heard it as well!!

[truefan72]

I can see massa's position, but he was clearly wrong in this case
Bottas was faster than him
massa had every opportunity to pass a very takeable button and couldn't even with his fuel advantage
The only thing massa did was hold up his teammate, who wasn't going to divebomb him for position and based on massa's stance and history would probably have caused a collision then blame his teammate, and cost the team some extra points

Massa is a professional driver and so i find it surprising that all these people ( especially that stupid ted kravits from sky and his unprofessional interview with Clair williams) are so worried about the fragile psyche of Massa. If he can't deal with a team order or is so shellshocked from his ferrari days,then he needs to get the heck out of the sport.

yeah, bottas may be a bit dickish, but his position was backed by clear telemetry indicating his better speed and a very real opportunity to take button. Massa on the other hand seemed too content with where he was. That is, sitting behind a slightly struggling mclaren lap after lap with no intention to pass that car

[steveaki13]

Lets face it. All drivers are two faced. They would all ask and love the team to movecover the teammate out of the way for a position. However all would think it ludicrous to ask "them" to move over.

Team orders only work "for drivers" not against them.

[Bagwan]

How do you know this? All we can tell from the timing is that he was faster than Button.

He complained about having more pace than Massa earlier in the race too, when they were behind the other McLaren, but that turned out not to be the case: Massa pulled away from him after Magnussen pitted.

Can anyone think of cases in the past where a driver has been told to concede a place on the basis that his team-mate is going to do a better job of overtaking the driver in front? Or more to the point, an occasion when a driver has followed such an order?
At Monza 2011, for example, I don't recall McLaren ordering Hamilton to pull over and let Button have a go at Schumacher after he'd caught them both.

If we can tell he was faster than Button , and his team mate had had ample time to make the pass , himself , then there is certainly some logic in letting Bottas have a go .
It results in the same points for the team .

If he had let him by , and Bottas couldn't make the pass in a similar number of laps , it would have been obvious to both that Mousa would deserve the place back .

If Mousa had not been clouded by the red mist , he might have seen that , instead of having his team commitment questioned and debated , he might be seen now as a real team player , and have exactly the same number of points he has now .

[Bagwan]

Double post , double post .

[Bagwan]

I'm not buying it Baggie. It is not worth 4 points in the second race of the season to ask a guy to punk out. How can anyone say that Bottas was faster than Phil-dawg (or Button) when Massa held him off quite handily? I also don't think they informed FM that he would get the place back if VB failed to pass Jense. The comment that you paraphrased was made after the race and smells of BS justification to me. Of course I respect your opinion, but I don't think I would like working for you. :bomb: :angel:
BTW I think that a blow hard petty tyrant is the real puss…..
How do you like those beans daddy-o :arrows: ;)

They told him not to pass , as they feared that Fragile Flip would "defend" both Bottas and himself out of the race .
Mousa trusts that they give him a capable car , and that they want the best out of him , but he cannot trust that they aren't screwing with him any time he isn't having it his own way .

It's pretty clear he's damaged goods .

To have asked him to move over , given what they know of his past , they must have believed that Bottas had a good chance to get by .
Remember , they were also managing his race , and ego .

To not ask Mousa to move over would have been a blow to the young driver , and extremely frustrating for the lad when he was approaching so quickly to a team mate not able to move up .
Just put yourself in the other car for a moment , Tazzy .

You wouldn't be fast enough to work for me , anyway , but I doubt very much that you'd pout yourself out of my team .

[Bagwan]

Wondering what it does to a driver's psyche when he's heard it twice now. Not only that, but the rest of the world clearly heard it as well!!

And , he answered the same way , with a pout .

There was a time when a sacrifice for the team was honourable .

He might have shown that he had turned a new leaf , understanding this .

[Tazio]

Baggie,
I think we will have to just agree to disagree. Sterling Moss has cited the same ridiculous antiquated reasons as I did earlier in the thread :confused:


Moss said Williams was not justified in telling Massa to give up a position so early in a world championship campaign. "There might be other grounds, later in the season if only one of you has a shot at the title -- but this was race two!" he exclaimed. "In his shoes I'd have done exactly the same as Massa." (GMM)
But then again who is that pouter to comment on the matter...........dawg? :dog: :dozey:

[Bagwan]

Baggie,
I think we will have to just agree to disagree. Sterling Moss has cited the same ridiculous antiquated reasons as I did earlier in the thread :confused:


But then again who is that pouter to comment on the matter...........dawg? :dog: :dozey:

The great Gilles moved over for his number one , and never pouted about it .
And , became the adopted son .

There's nothing wrong with being a team player .
It's better than being team pouter .

I guess the team could have told him the positions would be reversed if the young gun couldn't make it happen , but I doubt , in the midst of the red mist , that reading him one of Aesop's fables could have convinced him .
And , besides that , they'd likely have to read very slowly , so he'd be able to understand , and the race could be over by the time the moral of the story came to light .

They simply can't trust him to follow instructions when what they see as an opportunity arises .
That's no good .

[Bagwan]

I didn't address Moss's comments .

While he's right that it isn't fun being the guy being asked so early in the season , perhaps he isn't taking into account Williams having a dismal season last year , wanting to gather as many points as they could , early on in the season when others aren't as sorted .
He clearly understands making a sacrifice for his team , having given up his actual car to Fangio way back , but he , I believe , isn't looking at the big picture .

He is still lauded for his act , and there is no debate as to whether he was a team player .

[Tazio]

No good for you!! Bottas is not a designated #1 AFAIK. If GV moved over when they were only 10% into the season he had to have had serious problems with the car or he was a total punk, which he wasn't.
Team orders seem to cause more problems than they are worth. Speaking of GV:

Two weeks before at the fourth race of the season at San Marino, Villeneuve was leading Pironi to a one-two finish when Ferrari ordered both cars to slow down and hold their positions. But Pironi interpreted the orders in a different light and overtook his team-mate. For the next few laps, the duo passed and re-passed each other. But Villeneuve thought Pironi was trying to entertain the crowd. That was proven wrong on the final lap when the Canadian was aggressively overtaken by Pironi who won the race ahead of Villeneuve.

Understandably, Villeneuve was furious and vowed never to speak to Pironi again. Although it is heavily disputed, that anger is believed to have contributed to his death at the next race at Zolder where he crashed into the back of a slow-moving car during qualifying.

They shoud have just let the lads race......dawg!
I am not convinced that Bottas was superior to Massa in pace when he had to drive his wheels off to catch him. I still endorse FM, and Sir Sterling Moss' position, and not you or anyone else is going to change my mind in this matter!

[Tazio]

I wonder what Mike would say?

[Bagwan]

No good for you!! Bottas is not a designated #1 AFAIK. If GV moved over when they were only 10% into the season he had to have had serious problems with the car or he was a total punk, which he wasn't.
Team orders seem to cause more problems than they are worth. Speaking of GV:

They shoud have just let the lads race......dawg!
I am not convinced that Bottas was superior to Massa in pace when he had to drive his wheels off to catch him. I still endorse FM, and Sir Sterling Moss' position, and not you or anyone else is going to change my mind in this matter!

Gilles was insensed because he had given way for his team mate , and was given #one status at the team .
It was understood by all why Gilles felt the way he did after Pironi passed him .

If Mousa wishes to be #one , he needs first to be faster , and secondly , to quit thinking his team is out to screw him .

I'm not looking to change your mind , Ol' Tazzy bear , but to make you understand that Flip's mind needs some changing .

[Storm]

Isn't being in front of Bottas during the race a sign that Massa was faster than him? If not, I wonder what is.. Bottas should have tried a pass - he never did I think. Just waiting for Massa to pull over is stupid.

[steveaki13]

Isn't being in front of Bottas during the race a sign that Massa was faster than him? If not, I wonder what is.. Bottas should have tried a pass - he never did I think. Just waiting for Massa to pull over is stupid.

This

[easy rider]

I wonder what Felipe's reaction would have been if, Rob Smedely was on the pit wall and said, " Bottas is faster than you. "?

[Tazio]

Gilles was insensed because he had given way for his team mate , and was given #one status at the team .
It was understood by all why Gilles felt the way he did after Pironi passed him .

If Mousa wishes to be #one , he needs first to be faster , and secondly , to quit thinking his team is out to screw him .

I'm not looking to change your mind , Ol' Taz-dawg :dog: , but to make you understand that Felipe baggie's mind needs some changing .

Be that as it may, there is one thing good that has come out of this cluster****. Just when I was questioning my level of interest in this season, these freakin’ guys have gone to war :eek:, and I can't wait for this weekend’s chapter/battle.
The sparks were supposed to fly at Ferrari, and they still may but the real fun is at Williams.
:sailor: Fred and Kimi just got served! :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBShN8qT4lk

[Tazio]

Isn't being in front of Bottas during the race a sign that Massa was faster than him? If not, I wonder what is..

Now there is a novel concept :crazy:

[steveaki13]

Isn't being in front of Bottas during the race a sign that Massa was faster than him?

That's nonsense Storm. :\\ That's like saying the team which scores the most goals in a football match should win. Crazy idea. :D :crazy:

[Firstgear]

I wonder what Felipe's reaction would have been if, Rob Smedely was on the pit wall and said, " Bottas is faster than you. "?
Didn't Smedley come across to Williams a while after Massa? I remember reading that somewhere, so it may have been him.
As for not listening to the order, I'm not so sure there's a right and a wrong. It just reveals that Massa put his interests above the teams. For someone as mentally fragile as Massa, it probably wasn't wise. I think he'll live to regret it.

[Tazio]

:stareup: Felipe Baggie called in the cavalry after Malaysia ;)
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns27679.html

[truefan72]

:stareup: Felipe Baggie called in the cavalry after Malaysia ;)
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns27679.html

basically, his therapist is back
ready to nurse him lap after lap

[Tazio]

basically, his therapist is back
ready to nurse him lap after lap

:stareup: I prefer the term counselor. :love: