Malaysian Boeing 777 missing

[driveace]

Bad news this morning,is that. Boeing 777 series 200 ,is missing on a flight from Kuala Lumpar to China.
There are over 240 passengers and aircrew on board.All contact was lost with the plane over Vietnam.
The plane was fuelled for a 7 hour flight,but there has been no messages from the aircraft ,we can hope that Terrorism is not the cause of the aircraft going missing ,and pray for the people who boarded this plane ,and it's crew as well

[Roamy]

unfortunately you probably only have two choices - catastrophic failure caused my turbulence or terrorism. There was no message whatsoever. radar shows the plane veered lost 600ft and then disappeared.

[edv]

Two passengers travelling on stolen passports...that smells pretty bad.
The odds of that happening (without collusion) must be miniscule.

[D-Type]

If it was terrorism then surely there would have been a very public claim by now.

[driveace]

According to reports the Vietnamese authorities believe they have located parts from the missing airliner in the South China Sea .Photos show what appears to be a door,and they also say a tail fin has been found too.FBI says there were 4 suspect people on this flight,two of them on stolen passport.The passports were stolen over a year ago in Thailand,and Interpol knew of this .Interpol says no authorities got in touch with questions about the two suspects on this flight before the plane departed.They are saying only an handful of airlines check with them about stolen passport .They are calling it lax security

[BleAivano]

The floating object had no connection with the missing airliner and neither was the oil slick spotted which was from a ship.

[driveace]

Seems your correct BleAlvano,news here just confirmed the oil slick is NOT from the airliner,and the picture of the door,search crews cannot locate.A complete mystery !
How can you hi jack a large airliner to another country and keep it quiet,OR why has NO organization claimed they are behind it ?

[Mark]

Two passengers travelling on stolen passports...that smells pretty bad.
The odds of that happening (without collusion) must be miniscule.

I would have a guess that a good proportion of flights (especially in the region) have people traveling on fake passports.

[BleAivano]

Two passengers travelling on stolen passports...that smells pretty bad.
The odds of that happening (without collusion) must be miniscule.

They have probably nothing to do with it all, I would say it is more likely that they are some
sort of drug smugglers or trafficking people or something like that.

[airshifter]

It does seem the press are spending a lot of time on an unknown.

It is a strange situation though. Whether through sudden complete failure or a terrorist act, it would seem hard to just make an aircraft disappear without something giving a better indication of what took place.

[RS]

Given that there isn't lots of widespread debris (or any debris in fact) I guess that means it went down pretty much in once piece.

[BleAivano]

A quite extensive article from BBC which explains what what countries and what units that are used in the search:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26514556

[Starter]

How can you hi jack a large airliner to another country and keep it quiet,OR why has NO organization claimed they are behind it ?
It's UFOs.

[Starter]

It does seem the press are spending a lot of time on an unknown.

It is a strange situation though. Whether through sudden complete failure or a terrorist act, it would seem hard to just make an aircraft disappear without something giving a better indication of what took place.
That part of the world probably doesn't have a lot of radar coverage or air traffic control. At least not what more modern countries do. Though there are enough countries with military units in the general area that you would think somebody would have spotted something.

[Rollo]

What happens if say, there was an issue with the guidance system and/or other electrical faults?

The aircraft might not even be within a projected area of where it's supposed to be. What if for argument sake, this was like Adam Air Flight 574? A whole multitude of problems hitherto unknown might surface due to something that pilots weren't even expecting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Air_Flight_574

[BleAivano]

the latest theory is that the aircraft made a left turn at the point where it disappeared and
flew west over the Malacca peninsula where the trail end with a radar contact somewhere near
the island of Pulau Perak in the Malacca straight.

[RS]

It took the search crews five days to find any trace of Air France 447 so this doesn't seem that unprecedented?

[BleAivano]

It took the search crews five days to find any trace of Air France 447 so this doesn't seem that unprecedented?

Also with AF447 they knew pretty well where to look due to that AF had received automated messages called ACARS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Communications_Addressing_and_Reporting_S ystem).

There might be ACARS messages in this case as well but the it's unlikely since they start looking
in the area around the Malacca strait.

[Mark]

It's been confirmed on the news this morning that the fake passport men were Iranians seeking asylum in Germany, extremely unlikely they are connected with any terrorist plot.

[Storm]

Just saw on a spanish news paper that apparently some of the cellphones are still active or calls are going through but nobody picked up...(wondering if this is the case then why hasn't the location of these phones been found out?)

http://www.lavanguardia.com/internacion ... teste.html (http://www.lavanguardia.com/internacional/20140311/54402260654/moviles-desaparecidos-dan-tono-nadie-conteste.html)

[RS]

Just saw on a spanish news paper that apparently some of the cellphones are still active or calls are going through but nobody picked up...(wondering if this is the case then why hasn't the location of these phones been found out?)

http://www.lavanguardia.com/internacion ... teste.html (http://www.lavanguardia.com/internacional/20140311/54402260654/moviles-desaparecidos-dan-tono-nadie-conteste.html)

What?!

That doesn't seem likely to me if they are under 2 miles of ocean.

[JasonPotato]

I have watched enough Air crash investigation episodes to know when a plane crashes a device fitted to the flight recorder sounds a beep on a certain frequency to help locate the plane. Usually used when it's on the ocean floor. There should be some evidence on the surface that it crashed in the water in the first place. Assuming it has.

[BleAivano]

Just saw on a spanish news paper that apparently some of the cellphones are still active or calls are going through but nobody picked up...(wondering if this is the case then why hasn't the location of these phones been found out?)

http://www.lavanguardia.com/internacion ... teste.html (http://www.lavanguardia.com/internacional/20140311/54402260654/moviles-desaparecidos-dan-tono-nadie-conteste.html)

What?!

That doesn't seem likely to me if they are under 2 miles of ocean.

It very easy to explain and in it short it means that the phones aren't active, it's just the mobile network
trying to locate the phones and while it does that it might appear as the called phone is ringing despite
that it is actually turned off.



I have watched enough Air crash investigation episodes to know when a
plane crashes a device fitted to the flight recorder sounds a beep on a certain frequency to help
locate the plane. Usually used when it's on the ocean floor. There should be some evidence on the
surface that it crashed in the water in the first place. Assuming it has.

Yes it is called an "Under water locator beacon" and it is not used to locate the plane but
only to locate the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder,

The UWLB sends a ping every 60 seconds at a frequency of about 35KHz and a strength of about 165dB.
The beep can be heard at depths up to 6000m and the batteries lasts for at least 30 days.

[BleAivano]

the daily mail have a brief explanation to the ringing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ctive.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578020/Why-cellphones-missing-Malaysian-Airlines-passengers-ringing-Family-members-claim-loved-ones-smartphones-active.html)

[driveace]

Two girls say on a recent flight they made,the junior pilot ( first officer) that was on this flight,approached them whilst in the queue at the gate,and asked if they would like to come onto the flight deck to see them .The Australian girls been interviewed on CNN tonight.It also seems like the flight recorders were turned of and the plane made a sudden left turn ,then flew for another 1 and a half hours before radar lost track of the plane.So it actually flew back across Thailand .The sea they are now looking at for the aircraft is quite shallow ,they are talking of 400 ft in the deepest places,so maybe easier to find . The Malaysian authorities knew that the plane had made a sharp left off it's intended course,but sat on that information for 36 hours !

[JasonPotato]

Thanks Ble. You would think in this day and age a plane would have a proper built in tracker that cannot be turned off. I mean even my iphone has a tracker so if it gets stolen it can show the rough location it is.

[Rollo]

Thanks Ble. You would think in this day and age a plane would have a proper built in tracker that cannot be turned off. I mean even my iphone has a tracker so if it gets stolen it can show the rough location it is.

I wager that if your iPhone were under 3 feet of water, it would be impossible to find.

Salt water (of which the ocean is made) is a relatively good electrical conductor. Radio waves do not travel well through good conductors; partially hence the reason why a Faraday Cage works.
A plane which is under water (assuming it has sunk), even with the best tracker in the world, can not escape the physical properties of the ocean in which it would have fallen into.

[Starter]

Thanks Ble. You would think in this day and age a plane would have a proper built in tracker that cannot be turned off. I mean even my iphone has a tracker so if it gets stolen it can show the rough location it is.

I wager that if your iPhone were under 3 feet of water, it would be impossible to find.

Salt water (of which the ocean is made) is a relatively good electrical conductor. Radio waves do not travel well through good conductors; partially hence the reason why a Faraday Cage works.
A plane which is under water (assuming it has sunk), even with the best tracker in the world, can not escape the physical properties of the ocean in which it would have fallen into.
Not quite accurate. The boxes used on airplanes are designed to work under water. The effective range is substantially reduced though.

[BleAivano]

Thanks Ble. You would think in this day and age a plane would have a proper built in tracker that cannot be turned off. I mean even my iphone has a tracker so if it gets stolen it can show the rough location it is.

There is a reasonable explation to why every electric or electronic powered item on an
airplane can be turned off. The reason is fire. In case (or risk) of a short-circuit and/or fire
in an electric item or circuit. That item needs be able to be turned off to prevent the fire from
spreading and etc. Therefore the pilots have the possibility to isolate all electric items and all
electric items have a fuse that can be removed for that purpose.

So if you have a transponder which is powered by the aircraft generators and which you cannot
turn off, if there is a short circuit you might risk loosing the entire aircraft because of fire
that started in a transponder that you couldn't turn off.

So something that might be beneficial in one situation might not be so beneficial in another situation.
So it's basically a pro/con thing when it comes to the ability to turn something off. What is the most useful?
Having a transponder that is on at all times or a transponder that can be turned off to prevent a fire?

Also regarding those two women, well I think it is more of a made up scandal by media rather then something
that actually happened. I also don't like the way they (indirectly) accuse the F/O of being the reason to
the missing aircraft.

[BleAivano]

The wreckage might have been found by Chinese satellites.
The location of the wreckage is in the South Chinese sea, pretty much along the planes expected route to Beijing.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2 ... 5f8520c7a3 (http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2014/mar/12/mh370-search-extended-into-andaman-sea-live-updates#block-5320c71ce4b0385f8520c7a3)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2 ... ca9ee78df2 (http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2014/mar/12/mh370-search-extended-into-andaman-sea-live-updates#block-5320c231e4b0edca9ee78df2)

[driveace]

CNN is confident that the images from the Chinese of Satelite pictures show maybe the site of the missing 777 plane.An oil rig worker had reported seeing a burning plane in the sky,that appeared to be on fire for 10 to 15 seconds .Says he reported what he saw but has no idea if his message got through .
So maybe a good sign ,and hopefully some questions can now be answered !

[Roamy]

Who turned off the Transponder<<< Would have to be big explosion to turn of everything and no communication from the cockpit.
The plane did have enough fuel to reach the iranian coast.

[RS]

They're now saying the satellite images did not show the plane.

[BleAivano]

Who turned off the Transponder<<< Would have to be big explosion to turn of everything and no communication from the cockpit.
The plane did have enough fuel to reach the iranian coast.

I don't think it was an explosion that turned off the transponder since debris probably
would have been found in that area. That does not exclude a possible explosion later on
but at the moment it's not likely that the plane exploded where it was heard from.

The Guardian have a pretty good coverage so I would recommend you read the summaries.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2 ... ve-updates (http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2014/mar/13/mh370-no-sign-of-debris-detected-by-chinese-satellite-live-updates)

[Bagwan]

With the fuel that was on board , this plane could be 4,000 miles from where they are searching .

[Luis Pacheco]

Too much speculation.

[Bagwan]

I should have said it could have been 4 hours in the air after the transponders were deactivated , which would be in the range of 2,600 miles .

And , speculation is all anyone has .
It is what will lead to the truth .

[BleAivano]

I should have said it could have been 4 hours in the air after the transponders were deactivated ,
which would be in the range of 2,600 miles .

And , speculation is all anyone has .
It is what will lead to the truth .

When the plane left Kuala Lumpur it had fuel for about 7,5 hours and when it reached
the the waypoint where it last was heard from it had flew for about an hour or so.
This means that it had fuel for another 6-6,5 hours if you take into consideration that
it could have used the reserve fuel.

Here is an overview of how far it could have reached if it stayed at the altitude that it was
flying at and if it flew at the standard cruise speed (Mach .84),

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=NAW-KUL%2C ... 389&EU=kts (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=NAW-KUL%2C+NAW-LHW%2C+NAW-BOM%2C+NAW-NKW%2C+NAW-PEK%2C+NAW-KHI%2C+NAW-FNJ%2C+NAW-PER%2C+NAW-KBL%2C+NAW-ULN%2C+NAW-MCT%2C+NAW-VVO%2C+NAW-KHV%2C+NAW-TSE%2C+NAW-ADL%2C+NAW-IKA%2C+NAW-MGQ%2C+%0D%0ANAW-SAH%2C&R=2000nm%40NAW%0D%0A2500nm%40NAW%0D%0A3000nm%40NAW %0D%0A3500nm%40NAW&PM=b%3Adisc7%2B%25N&MS=wls&DU=nm&SG=.84&SU=mach&E=240&EV=389&EU=kts)


A map view of where the plane disappeared on some other points of speculative interest such a nearby
airport (Trang) that some speculate it might have tried to divert to, a second airport that also have a VOR
with the same name (TRN) as the airport some believe that they might have tried to divert to and
the small island of Pulau Perak where the Malaysian airforce might have seen the missing plane on radar.

https://i.imgur.com/eBV166Y.png


A map with the locations for the waypoint where it disappeared (first waypoint), the place of
the Chinese debris (2nd waypoint, wasn't related to MH370) and the oil rig where a New Zeeland
oil rig worker claimed that he saw a burning plan (third waypoint).

https://i.imgur.com/eBV166Y.png

[JasonPotato]

If you see the flight path, right at the end where they lost contact it started turning.

[Starter]

The latest thing I've heard is that the engines have their own data transmission and continued to send information for six hours. No idea whether that's true or not.

[BleAivano]

The latest thing I've heard is that the engines have their own data transmission and continued to send information for six hours. No idea whether that's true or not.

WSJ reports 4 hours: http://online.wsj.com/news/article_emai ... MzExNDMyWj (http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282-lMyQjAxMTA0MDEwMzExNDMyWj)

[Rollo]

What happens if say, there was an issue with the guidance system and/or other electrical faults?

The aircraft might not even be within a projected area of where it's supposed to be.


http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bioz_2wCIAEFLVm.jpg
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/missi ... cle-2014-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/missing-flight-could-be-anywhere-in-circle-2014-3)

This is one of those occasions where I wish that I hadn't said what I did because I might be right. If there was a guidance system fault and it flew on for hours in a radio "black spot" then that explains the complete disappearance perfectly and that's a worry.

[anfield5]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that commercial planes have a locator beacon that activates if the plane crashes, they usually last for up to a month sending out a 'ping'. Why has nobody heard anything. From what I know, it indicates that it is under water and the transimiision cant be picked up, unless a receiver is basically directly over it, but I would have though someone some where would have heard something.

[BleAivano]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that commercial planes have a locator beacon that activates if the plane crashes, they usually last for up to a month sending out a 'ping'. Why has nobody heard anything. From what I know, it indicates that it is under water and the transimiision cant be picked up, unless a receiver is basically directly over it, but I would have though someone some where would have heard something.

Yes they have Emergency Locator transmitter but it only works if the aircraft crashes on land.
If the airplane crashes in water the transmitter might not be able to send out information.
Since the antenna would be below water and radio or satellite signal does not work under water.
Perhaps you are confuse it an underwater locator beacon used the the flight data recorder?
an ULB uses audio pings when they are underwater.

There are also most likely smaller hand-held devices like EPIRBs on board the aircraft,

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missin ... ing-n49216 (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/emergency-beacons-not-fool-proof-when-jets-go-missing-n49216)

[Starter]

It's looking more and more like:
A) There was some sort of decompression in the cabin which incapacitated the pilot and copilot and the plane flew on until it ran out of fuel.
B) Human intervention, terrorist or otherwise.

[Mark]

So it could be in Perth, can anyone in Perth check if there's an aircraft there pls?

[Storm]

or even in Tibet?

[driveace]

The pilot decides how much fuel he wants to take on .And they took on far more fuel than was needed for that journey too, I am told you only usually only take on extra fuel ,if you are tankering cheaper fuel from your departure airport to an airport where fuel is a lot more expensive.So was this detour planned from the start by the pilots ?
And the last pilot they spoke to on the last communication was the younger First Officer,SO if it was flown to another country,was the older pilot attacked by the FO ,who then took over the command of the plane ?
All speculation,but is this plane really ever going to be located ?
I do not think it was blown out of the sky !

[BleAivano]

driveace, no on the contrary the investigators specifically said that they didn't have more fuel the normal
which means that they had around 140-145''000KG fuel on board which would give them a total range of
about 2600nm-3000nm or around 7 hours from where there radio comm was lost.

However, it is a very likely guess that the plane did not explode or suffer any sudden catastrophic failure
because then it wouldn't have kept flying for 7 hours.

[minardi]

Current search area is 2.24 million square nautical miles. Needle. Haystack.

Thoughts are with the friends and family of the missing, who simply cannot get closure until they find the plane, but sadly, I've got a strong feeling they won't find it for a very, very long time.

[Bagwan]

I had a couple come in to my store yesterday , telling me they had heard that there were twenty employees of an energy company on the flight .
Can anyone out there confirm this ?

[minardi]

I had a couple come in to my store yesterday , telling me they had heard that there were twenty employees of an energy company on the flight .
Can anyone out there confirm this ?

This is true. They were part of a Texan based firm Freescale.

http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1907348&highlight=

[Starter]

However, it is a very likely guess that the plane did not explode or suffer any sudden catastrophic failure
because then it wouldn't have kept flying for 7 hours.
That's not quite accurate. It's possible there was a sudden decompression of the cabin which would have quickly disabled the pilots. The plane would have kept on under autopilot until it ran out of fuel. That is a much lesser possibility though because why would the radio signals have gone silent? Can't be totally ruled out until the truth is known though.

[Bagwan]

I had a couple come in to my store yesterday , telling me they had heard that there were twenty employees of an energy company on the flight .
Can anyone out there confirm this ?

This is true. They were part of a Texan based firm Freescale.

http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1907348&highlight=

Ah , ok , a semiconductor company then .

Right off the start , I have to say that this isn't my theory , just to avoid any confusion about that .

According to these two , this company has applied for patents regarding a new way to pull energy from the earth's magnetic field .
The announcement of which was imminent .

They said they were not surprised that the plane went missing , as they had been reading about the research long before it actually disappeared .




Mind you , they also let on that they believed some of the extra-terrestrial theories , too , so , who knows "

[minardi]

A friend just pointed me in the direction of this article. A rather plausible theory.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

[Mark]

It makes more sense than anything else.

[BleAivano]

A friend just pointed me in the direction of this article. A rather plausible theory.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/



It makes more sense than anything else.

I disagree for several reasons.

First because it would be too much of a coincident that it would happen exactly where
they were handed off from Malaysia Control to Ho Chi MInh City control.

The aircraft continued to fly and send SATCOM pings to the satellite for about 7 hours from
where they disappeared. Imo a fire so intense/large that it knocks out the pilots
so quickly would have destroyed the aircraft in less then 7 hours.

The aircraft made atlest two turns (most likely more) after the first turn at waypoint IGARI.
http://i.imgur.com/yP9Jjz8.png

First they turned at VAMPI/GAVLI (at either of them) then they have had to make another turn
at IGREX to get themselves to somewhere of the two arcs/corridors.

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?i ... Uv90O.jpeg (http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=109874&filename=phpwUv90O.jpeg)
http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?i ... hYixr.jpeg (http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=109874&filename=phpxhYixr.jpeg)
https://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/brunosan. ... .07/106.35 (https://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/brunosan.map-cyglrrfu,brunosan.FlightMH370,brunosan.foo2.html?s ecure=1#3/3.07/106.35)

If the pilots were incapacitated so quickly who made/programmed these turns?

Also a plane on fire would surely have been noticed by the vast amount of cargo ships in the area?

[Bagwan]

Add to that , that the first transponder was turned off as soon as they started out over the water , and the second , about two minutes after the sign off , but not before recording the jet starting to turn to the west at the waypoint .

After it started to deviate from the flight plan , it headed west along a somewhat haphazard track , but generally west .

Then , it went , according to reports , either almost directly north or south .
That's the part that doesn't fit , unless the idea to get far enough west before making the turn , which seems to only fit with going north , from a self preservation point of view , given the alternative means running out of fuel somewhere south of the african continent , where it would be dreadfully hard to find you .

If it was a conscious decision , and given , as BleAviano said , someone had to have programmed those turns , there certainly seems to more going on here than just a cockpit fire .

[BleAivano]

At today's press conference it was revealed that rather then loading a the standard company route used for MH flights between KUL and PEK,
the one who programmed the route in the FMC, only entered a few waypoints up to the IGARI waypoint and after IAGRI there were no waypoints added.

This is definitely intentional and definitely not normal which means that an accident is less likely at this moment.

[BleAivano]

At today's press conference it was revealed that rather then loading a the standard company route used for MH flights between KUL and PEK,
the one who programmed the route in the FMC, only entered a few waypoints up to the IGARI waypoint and after IAGRI there were no waypoints added.

This is definitely intentional and definitely not normal which means that an accident is less likely at this moment.

Nevermind this, it was a missudnerstanding from my side.

[Markadmin]

Australia has now announced that it has found some debris on satellite images some 1,200km south west of Perth. This would correspond to where the aircraft could have run out of fuel. Aircraft and ships are en-route to investigate.

[anfield5]

From what Aussie search and rescue have said, their experts are confident that the sightings are genuine, so much so that all of their search efforts are now concentrated on that 1 area (too me the photos could be of anything, but I am absolutely not an expert). I truly hope this proves to be the plane and the families of those on board can at least have an answer, it must be terrible for them having nothing to hold on to.
http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/world_news/2014/03/malaysian_airlines__satellite_image_object_E1.jpg

[Roamy]

Well hopefully this is the wreckage. But don't count on it. If they piggybacked that plane to avoid radar - this will be a big wakeup call for all the sleeping mopes

[Spafranco]

My niece is a commercial airline pilot. She is furious that the type of information being relayed to us (general public)is so sketchy.

First of all, she says there are very few people who would know how to disengage the transponder or any location detection equipment outside of course the pilot and co-pilot.
Secondly, this sudden dive and loss of altitude is strange and loss of contact at a specific point is strange. Where was the plane going?Down, or farther on? No debris? Unlikely that a plane that size with that many people could disappear without luggage, fragments of aircraft and oil slick. Recall KA007? Shot down and even though the initial hit as reported by the Russian pilot mentioned that the plane was in fact intact as it went down save for smoke from the rocket strike.

[Bagwan]

We are being told that it is likely in a place where it will never be found .

That much I can believe .

[zako85]

"MH370 Families Reportedly Kicked Out Of Hotel For Ferrari"

http://jalopnik.com/mh370-families-reportedly-kicked-out-of-hotel-for-ferra-1549390817

[Roamy]

"MH370 Families Reportedly Kicked Out Of Hotel For Ferrari"

http://jalopnik.com/mh370-families-reportedly-kicked-out-of-hotel-for-ferra-1549390817

so what - ferrari has reservations - there are many hotels in kuala

[BleAivano]

It seems that they have found something.

The relatives are about to be informed by the Malaysian PM who will held a press conference afterwards.

I would think that they have enough evidence now, to know that the plane have crashed somewhere near the current search area in the souther Indian Ocean.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/mh370-chinese-plane-spots-white-objects-live-updates

According to the Independet, the SAR units could be just few hours from finding the wreckage.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/missing-malaysia-flight-mh370-chinese-spotters-make-first-possible-debris-sighting-with-naked-eye-in-search-area-9211655.html


*edit, a brief statement by Malaysian PM, said that they now know that the plane ended it's flight at the end of the
southern corridor and that there is no hope of survivors. This is based on new satellite data calculations.



Najib said: “With deep sadness and regret, according to this new data, we must conclude flight MH370 ended in the Southern Indian Ocean."



UK experts told the Malaysia PM that satellite signals have shed more light on MH370 flight path.
They concluded that MH370 flew along the southern corridor and that its last location was in the South Indian Ocean, Najib Razak said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/mh370-chinese-plane-spots-white-objects-live-updates#block-533039d4e4b04c696d948a3a

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/mh370-chinese-plane-spots-white-objects-live-updates#block-53303a74e4b06d6b8ecbf3e3

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/mh370-chinese-plane-spots-white-objects-live-updates#block-53303b14e4b06d6b8ecbf3e5

Full statement here: https://www.facebook.com/najibrazak/posts/10151954247230952?stream_ref=10

[RS]

What with the increasing debris sightings this now looks like the likely outcome.

I can understand some families not wanting to believe it until physical evidence is found though.

Now let's hope they find the black boxes and then the investigation can begin...

[minardi]

"Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived... we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean."

The TEXT MESSAGE sent to the families of the people on board. I'm astounded... a text message to tell the families the news they were so desperately hoping they wouldn't hear is just inexcusable and unacceptable :mad:

[Roamy]

The TEXT MESSAGE sent to the families of the people on board. I'm astounded... a text message to tell the families the news they were so desperately hoping they wouldn't hear is just inexcusable and unacceptable :mad:

I am still waiting for one piece of material evidence. Then I can sign on. I would not even be comfortable with just plane parts. Give me a suitcase or a body

[COD]

For me strangest thing is that no debris has been found. If they are so sure where abouts it crashed, how come not a piece has bee found? There are so many ships and aircraft around that soumethung ahould have been found IMHO

[BleAivano]

For me strangest thing is that no debris has been found. If they are so sure where abouts it crashed, how come not a piece has bee found? There are so many ships and aircraft around that soumethung ahould have been found IMHO

Not that strange Imo, it's is a large search area and possible debris would have sunk several weeks ago (a couple of days after the crash).
Possible luggage and cushions could still be afloat but then it depends on winds, waves and ocean currents where
they are now in the case that it would still be afloat.

[Roamy]

Not that strange Imo, it's is a large search area and possible debris would have sunk several weeks ago (a couple of days after the crash).
Possible luggage and cushions could still be afloat but then it depends on winds, waves and ocean currents where
they are now in the case that it would still be afloat.

I smell bullsh!t - but i will wait until they get done with the rest of the sub area. To sink that plane intact would have required a spot on landing in calm seas. The last time I checked foam insulation floats.

[driveace]

I am not convinced it is in the sea .I will take some convincing that it has not landed somewhere ,and the passengers have been starved of oxygen to keep them quiet,and it's somewhere in the Taliban part of Pakistan .There has been NO oilslicks and not one scrap of flotsam .How could the pilots have dropped that plane onto the ocean floor with no debris ?

[Starter]

I am not convinced it is in the sea .I will take some convincing that it has not landed somewhere ,and the passengers have been starved of oxygen to keep them quiet,and it's somewhere in the Taliban part of Pakistan .There has been NO oilslicks and not one scrap of flotsam .How could the pilots have dropped that plane onto the ocean floor with no debris ?
The question I have is: Why would the pilots have gone in that direction? If suicide or terrorism were the treason, why not just straight down or into some significant object? If something incapacitated the pilots, why the change/s of direction? Too many unanswered questions. Too much garbage fed to the media.

[COD]

There has been so many ships and airplanes on search that some floating debris should have been seen somewhere. Larger bits have probably sunk, but not everything sinks. There is so much garbage floating in all seas, that some from the plane should have been found if it is where they say it went down.

I don't have any theories on where it might be, but something very strange happened, that is for sure

[Bagwan]

They should have found something by now .
I'm a little surprised that whomever has the plane , buried in the sand , hasn't tossed a few floatation cushions out there to be found .
Although , the mystery of it all does put pressure on the world's governments to share information , and it's seeming more likely , in my opinion , that that is perhaps what this is all about .

[schmenke]

I am not convinced it is in the sea .I will take some convincing that it has not landed somewhere ,and the passengers have been starved of oxygen to keep them quiet,and it's somewhere in the Taliban part of Pakistan .There has been NO oilslicks and not one scrap of flotsam .How could the pilots have dropped that plane onto the ocean floor with no debris ?

It has not landed anywhere. A large plane like the Boeing 777 requires a long paved runway and I’m sure satellite images of potential landing spots have already been reviewed. A large plane like that is very difficult to conceal.

The plane crashed into the sea. It broke apart on impact with most of it, especially the heavy parts, sinking in pieces and scattering all over the sea floor.
What little that hasn’t sunk has stayed afloat, again in pieces, and with wind and current scattered over thousands of square miles of ocean. In a few weeks time we’ll start to find bits and pieces (potentially even decomposed bodies, at least those that haven’t been devoured by sharks) washing upon shores all over the Indian Ocean.

[BleAivano]

It has not landed anywhere. A large plane like the Boeing 777 requires a long paved runway and I’m sure satellite images of potential landing spots have already been reviewed. A large plane like that is very difficult to conceal.

The plane crashed into the sea. It broke apart on impact with most of it, especially the heavy parts, sinking in pieces and scattering all over the sea floor.
What little that hasn’t sunk has stayed afloat, again in pieces, and with wind and current scattered over thousands of square miles of ocean. In a few weeks time we’ll start to find bits and pieces (potentially even decomposed bodies, at least those that haven’t been devoured by sharks) washing upon shores all over the Indian Ocean.

I agree with your post in general although the bolded part depends on winds and currents (image taken from here (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6060731/1/#15)).
In a worst case scenario any possible floating debris will be stuck in an endless loop of currents.

http://i.imgur.com/PFQTUaa.png


As for the bodies, if they do re-surface after some time, they will eventually re-sink when the gases inside have been released.
Also at the depths we're talking about here (several thousand meters), the water pressure is enormous.
At 4000m the pressure force is about 411.033 kg per square centimetres, which is about 5845Psi.
Then consider that the human body surface (of a 175cm long and 70kg heavy person) is around 1.85m2 and one m2 is 10000cm2.
This you can get a grasp of the enormous pressure that a human body is exposed to at 4000m depth.

This means that bodies will implode at such depths and I think it is unlikely that they will re-surface from such depths.

[Zeakiwi]

Georesonance has analysed that there is an object in the Bay of Bengal.
The oil rig worker said he saw a plane on fire so he was either right or wrong.
I wonder how long before a private search goes looking in the Bay of Bengal if the official search does not.
You have to wonder what the Georesonance survey might have also 'found' during their analysis.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-georesonance-wreckage-of-a-commercial-airliner-found/

[Roamy]

Georesonance has analysed that there is an object in the Bay of Bengal.
The oil rig worker said he saw a plane on fire so he was either right or wrong.
I wonder how long before a private search goes looking in the Bay of Bengal if the official search does not.
You have to wonder what the Georesonance survey might have also 'found' during their analysis.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-georesonance-wreckage-of-a-commercial-airliner-found/

try looking in pakistan, iran or the coast of sri lanka - If it is in the bay on bengal it is because they ran out of fuel. But the time burner in the south
indian sea will give them time to find the real location. Well I guess this goes to show that no country can track submarines and I thought we could.

[Roamy]

I heard they arrested 11 people in connection with the missing flight. Still wonder where the plane is

[driveace]

Where is that news Roamy ?
And where are they from ?

[Rollo]

Georesonance has analysed that there is an object in the Bay of Bengal.

Georesonance is a fraud.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/30/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
CNN aviation expert Miles O'Brien said GeoResonance's claims are not supported by experts. "My blood is boiling," he told CNN's "New Day." "I've talked to the leading experts in satellite imaging capability at NASA, and they know of no technology that is capable of doing this. I am just horrified that a company would use this event to gain attention like this."
- CNN, 30th Apr 2014.


http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3998350.htm
But when you delve a little deeper into GeoResonance it gets even harder to take its claims seriously.
For a start, the company is not in the phone book.
It’s also existed for little more than a year ... and its share capital is just $48.
What’s more, some of the claims on its website—set up just days before the Channel 7 report—do not check out.
It claims for example ... that its NMR technology located the sunken ship Armenia on the floor of the Black Sea in 2005.
But the Armenia ... which was sunk by the Germans in 1941, killing thousands of passengers ... is in fact still missing.
- ABC Media Watch, 5th May 2014.

ANDREA NICOLAS: Jane, yesterday the Australian Transport Safety Bureau said GeoResonance’s claims were being examined by the international search team, but today it told Seven News it stands by its belief the company’s report is junk science.
—Channel Seven News, 2nd May, 2014

I hear on the ABC News this afternoon, that GeoResonance might be being investigated by the Australian Federal Police for misleading and harmful conduct. Interesting.

[Roamy]

Where is that news Roamy ?
And where are they from ?

just google the malasyian news papers - that is where I found it after hearning it on the radio.
many pilots believe the plane is in pakistan.

[driveace]

That's what I said very early on ,on one of my messages on this subject ,and a influential American said it was in a Taliban controlled part of Pakistan

[schmenke]

No, it's at the bottom of the sea.

A large commercial jet cannot simply land anywhere, especially on a dusty Taliban controlled airstrip in the middle of nowhere.

It, along with 300+ passengers, is difficult to conceal once on the ground.

Flying into Pakistan would take it over regions where ground-based radar would have detected it, specifically, India or China where both nations have sophisticated equipment that monitors all aircraft straying close to their borders.

[Starter]

A large commercial jet cannot simply land anywhere, especially on a dusty Taliban controlled airstrip in the middle of nowhere.Oh you could land it many places, relatively intact, so long as it doesn't need to take off again.

[donKey jote]

Ah yes, the MH370 Landing conspiracy. :andrea:

[Starter]

Ah yes, the MH370 Landing conspiracy. :andrea:
I didn't say I thought it had landed. just that it was possible it had landed. Many, many things are possible but some are more probable then others.

[schmenke]

Landing a large airplane like the Boeing 777, with 300 passengers, without anyone noticing, even in a remote location, is highly improbable.

[Starter]

Landing a large airplane like the Boeing 777, with 300 passengers, without anyone noticing, even in a remote location, is highly improbable.
Again, I'm not necessarily supporting this theory, but no one noticing and someone noticing but not reporting it to any outside authority are two different things.

[schmenke]

O.k., perhaps it laned behind a grassy knoll :p:

[driveace]

Boeing says it has landed in either Pakistan or over the border in Afghanistan.
And it was flying at less than 5000 ft,and thought is it tagged on behind another plane to cover it's tracks.
All this conspiracy that's it's in the sea,and yet not one scrap of evidence to prove that has been found !

[Roamy]

O.k., perhaps it laned behind a grassy knoll :p:

This plane is here and hiding in the blue hangar

https://www.google.com/maps/search/airports/@27.6722802,54.3801919,1144m/data=!3m1!1e3

[COD]

Not saying that it has landed, but this true story proves that big planes can land safely on most unlikely places

http://youtu.be/14DyBpYzwP4

[schmenke]

The aircraft in that video is a Boeing 737, about half the length and weight of a 777.

[airshifter]

Though I personally think this place went into the ocean, anyone that doubts that a very large aircraft doesn't have a lot of landing options has never spent much time in remote areas around the military. It really doesn't take all that much to do it other than people that understand the options. As for concealment, the same applies. You can hid an aircraft from most satellite imagery in plain sight.

[Starter]

Though I personally think this place went into the ocean, anyone that doubts that a very large aircraft doesn't have a lot of landing options has never spent much time in remote areas around the military. It really doesn't take all that much to do it other than people that understand the options. As for concealment, the same applies. You can hid an aircraft from most satellite imagery in plain sight.
Yes, it's the takeoffs that require long and smooth runways to achieve the required airspeed. You can land a modern large passenger jet on a dirt runway if you don't mind damaging the landing gear and other components.

[Tel 911S]

http://www.whydontyoutrythis.com/2014/03/this-is-the-real-reason-flight-370-disappeared.html

Here is a good conspiracy theory to think about .
And the way things have gone , this one makes more sense than a lot of the official explanations .

[schmenke]

...it tagged on behind another plane to cover it's tracks....

Flying that close would have enabled the leading plane’s proximity warning system.

[Bagwan]

Flying that close would have enabled the leading plane’s proximity warning system.

Having arms might not enable the pilot to fly , but it might allow him to turn off the audio on the warning , making it less annoying .

These planes don't do too well hitting water .
If you really think it went into the drink , like CNN is telling all who will listen , then isn't it more than a little odd that there hasn't been even the tiniest of pieces of it or it's contents found ?
At this point , the idea is as much a theory as any idea of what actually occurred .

If , indeed , those conspiracy theorists are correct , and 239 lives were sacrificed for a fortune gained , we are truly in trouble .

[schmenke]

If you really think it landed in Pakistan, then isn't it more than a little odd that there hasn't been even the tiniest of indications an announcement made from some terrorist organization. If I were some such nutjob I’d certainly want to blow my trumpet of pulling off such an achievement.

[Starter]

If you really think it landed in Pakistan, then isn't it more than a little odd that there hasn't been even the tiniest of indications an announcement made from some terrorist organization. If I were some such nutjob I’d certainly want to blow my trumpet of pulling off such an achievement.
Agreed. That's why, while I believe it's possible, I don't think it's the most likely answer.

[Bagwan]

If you really think it landed in Pakistan, then isn't it more than a little odd that there hasn't been even the tiniest of indications an announcement made from some terrorist organization. If I were some such nutjob I’d certainly want to blow my trumpet of pulling off such an achievement.

I never suggested Pakistan , and you never answered my question .

In case you haven't seen the video posted at the top of the page , I'll mention that it implies that the "terrorist organization" of which you spoke might be a good description of The Carlyle Group in the video's explanation of the loss of the plane and the reasons behind it's loss .

Given that if the plane went into the water , it would produce debris of some kind , at what point do we question whether the theory of a water ditching might be suspect , if they fail to find anything ?
Is a year long enough ?

[schmenke]

Sorry, I tried to answer your question with a question.

No, I don’t think it’s odd that there hasn't been even the tiniest of pieces of the plane or its contents found. It’s not inconceivable to assume the plane either exploded at high altitude or crashed violently into the sea. In both scenarios debris would have both sunk and been scattered over a wide area of the Indian Ocean. Wind and currents would have scattered the small, hard to detect pieces, over an even larger area.


Apologies again... I stopped watching the video when the discussion was embarrassingly trying to paint the Binladin group as a terrorist organization.

[Bagwan]

You should watch all of it , schmenke , if only to know what you are debating against .

My next questions in that last post asked how long until we get suspicious that nothing has been found .
Or , do you think nothing will ever be found ?

They sure have spent a pile of money looking , with everybody looking very busy about the whole thing .

To this point , the opinion that there's nothing there to find is just as valid as your explosion
or violent entry scenario .
And given the strange scenario that was the flight path even early on , it seems to me more believable that it's on the ground somewhere , rather than in the drink .

[Starter]

If it went in the ocean there should be a fair amount of debris, mostly small, that will eventually be found. There are all kinds of stuff, from seat cusions to suitcases to insulation, etc. that will float. Remember that after the Japanese tsunami all kinds of stuff started showing up on the American west coast about a year later.

[Malbec]

If you really think it landed in Pakistan, then isn't it more than a little odd that there hasn't been even the tiniest of indications an announcement made from some terrorist organization. If I were some such nutjob I’d certainly want to blow my trumpet of pulling off such an achievement.

Anyone who thinks that the Pakistani Air Force would not intercept and probably shoot down an unidentified plane flying over from India across probably the most sensitive border area in the world has to be a nutjob themselves. Also lets not forget that the USAF itself also monitors airspace across a broad swathe of Pakistan as part of its operations in Afghanistan and would likely have seen something, nor the Indians monitoring flights across its own territory let alone one flying without permission to Pakistan.

[janvanvurpa]

Anyone who thinks that the Pakistani Air Force would not intercept and probably shoot down an unidentified plane flying over from India across probably the most sensitive border area in the world has to be a nutjob themselves. Also lets not forget that the USAF itself also monitors airspace across a broad swathe of Pakistan as part of its operations in Afghanistan and would likely have seen something, nor the Indians monitoring flights across its own territory let alone one flying without permission to Pakistan.

Yes BUT! what if they were all paid off? HA! din't think of dat, didya?

[Starter]

Yes BUT! what if they were all paid off? HA! din't think of dat, didya?
And, in Pakistan, a not insignificant part of the government is sympathetic to radical Islam. But I still think that's the lesser probability.

[driveace]

The Carlyle explanation could carry some weight .Some Government somewhere knows more than they are prepared to admit they know.The terrorists would not boast about them successfully diverting this plane if they intend to use it to bomb a large city or country .Still no debri anywhere,and I doubt there will be any found ,so it must have landed !

[Roamy]

http://www.whydontyoutrythis.com/2014/03/this-is-the-real-reason-flight-370-disappeared.html

Here is a good conspiracy theory to think about .
And the way things have gone , this one makes more sense than a lot of the official explanations .

Yea I like this one a lot

[schmenke]

...if they intend to use it to bomb a large city or country ...

But that would mean that the plane would need to be intact, having landed on a paved runway almost two miles long, parked undetected on a tarmac with refueling provisions.

These planes cannot simply be refueled with a few dozen jerry cans. Specialized pumping equipment is required. Just the procurement of a large quantity of jet fuel is difficult, especially without arousal of suspicion.

Sorry, don’t buy that scenario.

[donKey jote]

Sorry, don’t buy that scenario.
i doubt many in their sane mind would either :sailor:

[Koz]

Here's what [may have] really happened:

The plane was hijacked.
And shot down by China/US/Malaysia instead of being allowed to be used as a 'weapon'?
A massive coverup follows.

[Starter]

Here's what [may have] really happened:

The plane was hijacked.
And shot down by China/US/Malaysia instead of being allowed to be used as a 'weapon'?
A massive coverup follows.
Great movie script.

[driveace]

But again NO debri !

[RS]

No, I don’t think it’s odd that there hasn't been even the tiniest of pieces of the plane or its contents found. It’s not inconceivable to assume the plane either exploded at high altitude or crashed violently into the sea. In both scenarios debris would have both sunk and been scattered over a wide area of the Indian Ocean. Wind and currents would have scattered the small, hard to detect pieces, over an even larger area.


Being spread over a larger area would surely give a better chance of something being found?

Only way I can see that there wouldn't be parts found eventually, if it's in the sea, would be if it made a slow landing (like the Hudson river incident) and sank without breaking up or went in nose first.

[Malbec]

But again NO debri !

So?

There have been plenty of aircraft crashes before at sea where no debris has been found, usually in the days before radar where the exact position of the accident was not known for a while, just as in this case. It was more than a week before they started looking towards the west of Australia for debris, enough time for most parts to sink.

The signal from the black box was heard by the passive sonar systems deployed around the crash site which is pretty good proof that the aircraft went down in that approximate area.

If there is a conspiracy theory it is that the massive sound emitted by the black boxes (by military standards) were not heard before by any military submarines in the area, although that could be because there were simply no submarines in the area and there wouldn't particularly be any reason for them to be there either. If you're digging more, you could argue that the refusal of the neighbouring South East Asian states to share information that would compromise the abilities of their air defence radar network delayed the switch in search areas from south of Vietnam to west of Australia but thats about it I'm afraid.

[Bagwan]

I hope seat cushions designed to float , are designed to do so for more than a week .

[schmenke]

That is a very good point Baggy.

[driveace]

I have a friend who knows a pilot,he is not convinced it's at the bottom of an Ocean

[COD]

The aircraft in that video is a Boeing 737, about half the length and weight of a 777.

It was not meant to say that 777 can do the same as 737, more to illustrate that you can land passanger planes on places no-one could imagine

[donKey jote]

It was not meant to say that 777 can do the same as 737, more to illustrate that you can land passanger planes on places no-one could imagine

https://www.flickr.com/photos/62440303@N04/5683785190/

[driveace]

Anything to sell papers !!! Was looking to see April 1st ,but it was not !
Malaysians are convinced the Americans know and Boeing too ,BUT why the secrecy ,will the 777 appear again with different markings ? If there is a conspiracy was it because of the cargo or the 20 so odd personnel from the same company going to sell secrets to China ? Something very odd ,and I hope we dont have to wait 30 years to find the truth !

[Bagwan]

The phrase "wild goose chase" comes to mind .


So , for the bigger conspiracy being put forth , the prize would have to be pretty big .

I met a couple , as I may have mentioned early in the thread , who said they had been watching a company in Texas that had patents regarding a new form of energy , one harvested from the earth's magnetic field .
Both were formerly government supported scientists , and so , were both still keenly interested , following the behind the scenes scuttlebut .

They were not surprised when they heard about the plane going missing .


If they are , in fact right about this , and the Malaysian Government is asking about the "man behind the curtain" , they will not be making friends of TCG , and those in high places .
We may see a few tainting reports about Malaysia soon , as they are punished for their cheekiness here .

I do hope they are able to ask some hard questions in the world press , though , as 239 people are still unaccounted for , and many answers are needed , no matter how sick the truth .

[Firstgear]

I spoke to a pilot friend of mine over the weekend.

A couple of guys he knows died in a plane crash some time ago. He says all the media speculation, and all the theories of what happened in that crash were really far off from what the data and analysis eventually showed to have happened. For this reason he hasn't been following the news on this story.

He did say something interesting though that I hadn't heard before. The first thing that he thought of after hearing that a jet had gone missing was that it had been taken (no speculation as to by whom) and parted out. He said he didn't necessarily think that that's what had happened - just that it was the first thing to come to mind.
Who knew there was a market for used jet parts, just like for car parts?

[COD]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/62440303@N04/5683785190/

:laugh:

Even I'm not that crazy

[Roamy]

well now what - aussies say no plane in the area. Yikes I think the Jews are worried

[driveace]

Its not at the bottom of ANY ocean its landed somewhere .For sure !
American base in Indian Ocean ?
Malaysian Airlines owe money ,They are in debt Has this plane been taken to clear a debt ?

[Bagwan]

Now they are showing us 634 runway within fuel range which could have been used to land the jet .

And , they are saying that the "pings" were from a man made source , but not the jet .

Sounds like Inmarsat sent out wild geese to be chased .

[driveace]

Well ,I still believe its landed !

[donKey jote]

Well I still believe in Santa Claus :andrea:

[driveace]

Well why now are they saying there are 634 airports it could have landed at .Guy I met last night said there has been 3 similar accidents with Muslim pilots ,his thought is that the junior pilot goes out to toilet ,he locks cabin door so he can't get back in ,and flies it directly into ocean at full speed ! I don't but that UNTIL there is the smallest piece of debris is found

[donKey jote]

Muslim pilots under suspicion for being muslim now... You do realize Islam is the state religion in Malaysia don't you :laugh:

[Starter]

Muslim pilots under suspicion for being muslim now... You do realize Islam is the state religion in Malaysia don't you :laugh:
At this particular point in history fringe (radical) Muslims are the most dangerous group there is.

[Bagwan]

At this particular point in history fringe (radical) Muslims are the most dangerous group there is.

Good .
That's what you're supposed to think .

[janvanvurpa]

At this particular point in history fringe (radical) Muslims are the most dangerous group there is.

Except perhaps the United States Military.....judging by how many they've killed in order to save them.

[Starter]

Except perhaps the United States Military.....judging by how many they've killed in order to save them.
A good point because I wasn't clear enough. I meant non governmental groups.

[janvanvurpa]

A good point because I wasn't clear enough. I meant non governmental groups.


Oh you mean American Contactors...what were once called "mercenaries" when we were doing the calling?

Or the stooges and proxies we prop up?

[Starter]

Oh you mean American Contactors...what were once called "mercenaries" when we were doing the calling?

Or the stooges and proxies we prop up?
"Once called"?? I still call them that because that is what they are.If I hire a plumber and the President hires a plumber his hire may be a government contractor, but they are both still plumbers.

[Bagwan]

Call them actors , rather than contractors , because sometimes they play different roles in different costumes .

[Zeakiwi]

Another witness for a possible plane fire for MH 370.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/03/mh370-british-woman-katherine-tee-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-fire_n_5436175.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ir=UK

Possible sound recording of 'impact noise' recorded on Indian Ocean hydrophones to be released by scientists in Hong Kong?

Has the cargo be analysed for flammable items or was an item put in the cargo hold that was not recorded?

[Roamy]

Another witness for a possible plane fire for MH 370.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/03/mh370-british-woman-katherine-tee-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-fire_n_5436175.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ir=UK

Possible sound recording of 'impact noise' recorded on Indian Ocean hydrophones to be released by scientists in Hong Kong?

Has the cargo be analysed for flammable items or was an item put in the cargo hold that was not recorded?

Now they are offering a big reward to any whistleblower. Prob find the plane now

[schmenke]

Area 51

[Tazio]

Area 51 The old one or the new one? :confused:

[schmenke]

There's more than one? :cornfused:

[Tazio]

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Green_River_Complex_Utah.html I'm :confused: too ;)

[driveace]

The families of the missing passengers are now offering 3 million dollars to any whistleblower ,or person in the know who passes on information that solves the problem of the missing airliner.They want to know who is hiding what,what info is being kept back ,and have hired a team to investigate the disappearance .They believe one country or it's leaders know what has happened to this jet,and hope someone with a loose tounge will provide information

[driveace]

The fund is a total of 5 million ,2 for the investigating team ,and 3 for the whistleblower , Will it work ?

[airshifter]

The fund is a total of 5 million ,2 for the investigating team ,and 3 for the whistleblower , Will it work ?

I'd have to tell them the plane ended up in the ocean, and wait until someone proves it.


I don't think many people really get quite how vast a large ocean expanse is, and how quickly very large things can become lost in one.

And though I have no doubts you can remove a plane from common detection, as well as land a large plane in many areas most of us wouldn't suspect, I find it all highly unlikely.

[COD]

http://www.newsweek.com/pilot-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-now-chief-suspect-255906

[driveace]

I still believe he handed it ! Prove me wrong please

[schmenke]

http://www.newsweek.com/pilot-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-now-chief-suspect-255906

That story is rather vague and unsubstantiated :s

[COD]

That story is rather vague and unsubstantiated :s

But raises yet more questions. Was he able to make that landing he practised? Did something go wrong with that plan? Or WTF happened

[Bagwan]

Files deleted on the morning of the flight implies that he was practicing something .
It also points to that something being something he was not willing to share .
It also follows that it was something that was to be carried out that day .

I have a feeling that the plan went awry when the transponder was turned off only after the initial turn to the west , when it should have been turned off before , to look more like it went down right there .
The Inmarsat data would never have had to be invented at all if the pilot had gotten that part right .

[RS]

Have the islands in the area actually been checked? Think some of them won't be inhabited?

[schmenke]

Files deleted on the morning of the flight implies that he was practicing something .
It also points to that something being something he was not willing to share .
It also follows that it was something that was to be carried out that day .

I have a feeling that the plan went awry when the transponder was turned off only after the initial turn to the west , when it should have been turned off before , to look more like it went down right there .
The Inmarsat data would never have had to be invented at all if the pilot had gotten that part right .

Where does it say that the files were deleted the morning of the flight?

I’m no pilot but I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to know that they would simulate emergency landings at various airstrips in an area where they routinely fly.

[Bagwan]

Where does it say that the files were deleted the morning of the flight?

I’m no pilot but I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to know that they would simulate emergency landings at various airstrips in an area where they routinely fly.

I was sure I read that somewhere , but I can't find it now .
Maybe I got that wrong .

[driveace]

Sure I read that the Malaysian Authorities had released information that the senior Captain of the flight was the chief suspect.They had gone through his computer seized from his home,and he had been practicing landed on very small runways,was having marriage problems ,and he had tried to clear his computer of his activity on landing on small runways ,but the experts had been able to recover the information

[driveace]

And now another Malaysian Airline plane missing,but this time it is found crashed and fiercely burning in Eastern Ukraine ,The Russians say it never entered their airspace .Believed shot down by missile from another plane ,over 290 on board .This is disastrous !

[Mark]

And now another Malaysian Airline plane missing,but this time it is found crashed and fiercely burning in Eastern Ukraine ,The Russians say it never entered their airspace .Believed shot down by missile from another plane ,over 290 on board .This is disastrous !

Not another plane. More likely ground based.

[Starter]

Ukrainian rebels first claimed responsibility but now are denying it. Apparently a ground bases missile, not air to air. One of the sides almost certainly did it, much less likely the missile came from Russia.

Fly Malaysian Air at your own risk!

[Storm]

Malaysia Airlines again :eek:

Just saw the news after your post driveace....whatever the reason this plane crashed, expect another long investigation without any real outcome since both sides will try to pin the blame on the other. (Russia and Ukraine that is)

yeah Starter: think people will really be worried flying that airline now however irrational it may be..co-incidence of the weirdest type.. Malaysia was the first international airline I actually flew 10+ years ago on a flight to KL.

[KKS]

https://tackk.com/mh17

russia forces can easly transport "Buk" to terrorist(other russia army) controled area.
Buk was saw in Snizne. City was controlled by russia army.

Fuck you putler!

[zako85]

There was a report that rebels stole "Buk" surface to air missiles from the Ukrainian air defense base weeks days ago.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/ukraine-rebels-stole-same-missiles-that-may-have-taken-1606774715/1606791724

[Roamy]

The world is a sh!thole going to hell in a lead sled !!!!

[zako85]

A lot of TV news and web sites report that the airliner may have been shot down by the Buk missile system that pro-Russian separatists have stolen from Ukrainian air defenses. However, the Buk missile system is quite sophisticated and one of the more advanced and more feared SAM systems today. How could a bunch of pro-Russian rebel hicks in East Ukraine learn to operate it in just a few days? Could there be Russian operatives involved? If the evidence comes out that Russian operatives have helped the pro-Russians to operate the Buk SAM, it will be a pretty damning reason to say cancel the Russian GP.

To get the idea how advanced the Buk missile system is you may want to recall that it is believed that Georgians have shot down a supersonic Russian Tupolev-22M bomber using one of these during the 2008 war in South Ossetia (Georgians also got the Buk system from their Ukrainian allies). Tu-22M is a supersonic, long-range heavy bomber that in theory was designed to be good enough to get close enough to the NATO air space to launch missiles armed with nuclear warheads, so taking down one of these with a land-based missile is quite a feat. I am curious if people with some military background could comment on this.

[Big Ben]

Do we still believe that there aren't russians soldiers sent from russia to help the poor helpless oppressed russians from ukraine? If they have this fancy systems they have the people to operate them. These rebels are way too efficient to actually believe they are nothing but average Ivans who quit their jobs, grabbed the household's kalashnikov and went to fight the oppressors.

[airshifter]

I can't say about the system in question, but having been around some of the smaller systems in the military, part of what makes them so good is often ease of operation. On shorter range fire and forget type systems it really doesn't take much work on the user end. You acquire a target and let it go. I would imagine it's similar on long range systems, as the missile must really do the homing and tracking work mostly in flight.

The majority of military hardware is designed to be user friendly. They know people are dealing with fatigue, stress, crap weather, etc often during use, and have to consider all those factors when they design things.

[Starter]

I can't say about the system in question, but having been around some of the smaller systems in the military, part of what makes them so good is often ease of operation. On shorter range fire and forget type systems it really doesn't take much work on the user end. You acquire a target and let it go. I would imagine it's similar on long range systems, as the missile must really do the homing and tracking work mostly in flight.

The majority of military hardware is designed to be user friendly. They know people are dealing with fatigue, stress, crap weather, etc often during use, and have to consider all those factors when they design things.
This is correct. The use of modern weapon systems, except for the most sophisticated, is fairly easy and these should be also. It's the long term maintenance of the weapons which require training and expertise.

I can imagine the Russian "advisers" saying the Russian equivalent of "Oh crap, you've really screwed the pooch." when they realized what had been done.

[driveace]

This looks like Russia had it's hand in it !
Obama will have some big decisions to make on this issue,could it lead to another cold war ?

[Mark]

Do we still believe that there aren't russians soldiers sent from russia to help the poor helpless oppressed russians from ukraine? .

I would be amazed if there weren't Russian special forces in Ukraine.

It does look like the 'rebels' have gotten a bit trigger happy and got carried away.

[Malbec]

This is correct. The use of modern weapon systems, except for the most sophisticated, is fairly easy and these should be also. It's the long term maintenance of the weapons which require training and expertise.

I can imagine the Russian "advisers" saying the Russian equivalent of "Oh crap, you've really screwed the pooch." when they realized what had been done.

Setting the launcher up, locking it on a target and firing the missile might be easy but identifying civilians from military, friend from foe would require further equipment and a lot more expertise. That clearly wasn't present.

Whether the Russians supplied their friends with the launchers or whether they were captured by the rebels from the Ukrainians, the fact that they were firing at targets 30,000 ft and above without bothering to identify them whilst airliners were still routed over the area meant this was a disaster waiting to happen. Clearly someone in the group coordinating the rebels from Moscow had a few brain cells missing when they okayed the blind targeting of high flying aircraft in the region, they would have known that airliners were in the area because they would have gone on to fly over Russian territory later (real Russian that is, not seized). Given that airliners flying east over this region were fast approaching Russian airspace they could well have been in contact with Russian ATC as they were shot down.

Wars have started over less. At the very least its time for Putin to quit playing in Eastern Ukraine and get his guys out of there.

[driveace]

There is film on TV of the suspected Rocket Launcher being spirited back across the border to Russia,and also recording on public media site of a guy admitting just shot down a plane ,that recording has now been removed ,but the Americans have the guys name.Can the Americans arrest this guy before the Russians eliminate him ?

[Storm]

^well the most likely answer to that is No.
Also even if it is proved that Soviet..err Russian ;) army was behind all this, does anybody really have the guts,time and money to go to war on this? Because getting an apology from them or imposing sanctions or a UN reprimand aren't real solutions to the innocent people who actually died in this.

[zako85]

There is film on TV of the suspected Rocket Launcher being spirited back across the border to Russia


The video you mention was displayed on major news channels (BBC world news I think) and it was discussed here:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/is-this-sa-11-buk-sam-missing-2-missiles-the-one-that-1607521886

Personally, I do not consider this video as an evidence of any kind. Has anyone so far proved where and when exactly was this video filmed? Where was the vehicle headed? In the middle of an extremely tense information war fought between Ukraine and Russia, I'd take it with a grain of salt, specially since Ukrainians seems to have provided the video to TV channels with comment "vehicles heading back to Russia" as if they already have a proof that the vehicles came from Russia to begin with. Do you know that Ukraine also owns the same kinds of missile systems? And by the way, the rebels have claimed weeks ago that they captured Buk missile system from _Ukrainian_ air defense. So far this video is not a proof of a Russian complicity but one data point. If there were a few more videos of the same incident showing yes this vehicle was _certainly_ heading into Russia, then that would be a pretty damning evidence.



also recording on public media site of a guy admitting just shot down a plane ,that recording has now been removed ,but the Americans have the guys name.Can the Americans arrest this guy before the Russians eliminate him ?

Yes, the recorded did sound pretty damning to me. However, what authority do the Americans have to arrest this guy? Perhaps he visits Las Vegas on weekends? And on what grounds? Have any American laws been broken?

[Starter]

Personally, I do not consider this video as an evidence of any kind. Has anyone so far proved where and when exactly was this video filmed? Where was the vehicle headed? In the middle of an extremely tense information war fought between Ukraine and Russia, I'd take it with a grain of salt, specially since Ukrainians seems to have provided the video to TV channels with comment "vehicles heading back to Russia" as if they already have a proof that the vehicles came from Russia to begin with. Do you know that Ukraine also owns the same kinds of missile systems? And by the way, the rebels have claimed weeks ago that they captured Buk missile system from _Ukrainian_ air defense. So far this video is not a proof of a Russian complicity but one data point. If there were a few more videos of the same incident showing yes this vehicle was _certainly_ heading into Russia, then that would be a pretty damning evidence.
Good points


Yes, the recorded did sound pretty damning to me. However, what authority do the Americans have to arrest this guy? Perhaps he visits Las Vegas on weekends? And on what grounds? Have any American laws been broken?
America has no role in this, unless asked by NATO which we do have a responsibility to support. And you are correct, no American laws were broken. The various European countries seem loathe to take any real action as they don't want to be cut off from Russian gas with winter three or four months away. Let them deal with it. Although the parallels with the apeasement leading up to WWll are hard to ignore.

[EightGear]

I'm still speechless about this tragic incident. Our country (NL) lost 194 souls and is in absolute shock and anger. It's the only thing people speak about. I've just returned from Portugal this morning and stood still at the huge amount of flowers at Schiphol airport. Surreal. :(

[Roy]

... Our country (NL) lost 194 souls and is in absolute shock and anger...

I come from Holland too. We are indeed in shock, angry and furious about these situation. These rebels and Putin are idiots!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs7TpW4CMAA21Tp.jpg

[Mark]

I think perhaps Malaysian Airlines won't last much longer. With these two incidents although unrelated and there's no rational reason to have to avoid the airline; we don't think rationally and I would be nervous to fly Malaysian.

Most likely is they'll be taken over by another airline.

[Ranger]

Another awful tragedy.


I think perhaps Malaysian Airlines won't last much longer. With these two incidents although unrelated and there's no rational reason to have to avoid the airline; we don't think rationally and I would be nervous to fly Malaysian.

Most likely is they'll be taken over by another airline.

That would be certain if it was privately owned.

As they are owned by the Malaysian government they may fare better in the long-term.

[D-Type]

I think perhaps Malaysian Airlines won't last much longer. With these two incidents although unrelated and there's no rational reason to have to avoid the airline; we don't think rationally and I would be nervous to fly Malaysian.

Most likely is they'll be taken over by another airline.


Another awful tragedy.



That would be certain if it was privately owned.

As they are owned by the Malaysian government they may fare better in the long-term.

All they can do is rename it - "Orchid Airlines" or something like that

[Mark]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28370863

It seems they were in trouble without these incidents http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28370863

You do wonder, if the decision not to avoid this airspace was thus a commercial one? Since other airlines such as British Airways had already chosen not to fly over there.

[RS]

What was the reaction of the international community when the USA shot down that Iranian airliner in 1988?

Was Reagan accused of being a terrorist/murderer and were sanctions threatened on the US?

[Gregor-y]

Since the US accepted responsibility and blame for their error it's not a good comparison.

[RS]

Since the US accepted responsibility and blame for their error it's not a good comparison.

But that was much more clear-cut.

I just doubt that if Putin accepted some responsibility/remorse for this it would make it ok in Western eyes.

Just glad the Republicans aren't in power at the moment..

[Starter]

But that was much more clear-cut.

I just doubt that if Putin accepted some responsibility/remorse for this it would make it ok in Western eyes.
First, it should never be OK in anybody's eyes. Second, Putin is probably not capable of admitting in public that he made a mistake (giving the separatists modern weapons). Third, his objective is a new Russian empire so anything which furthers that is not an error in his opinion.


Just glad the Republicans aren't in power at the moment..
There is a slightly better than 50/50 chance that will change in November.

[Malbec]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28370863

It seems they were in trouble without these incidents http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28370863

You do wonder, if the decision not to avoid this airspace was thus a commercial one? Since other airlines such as British Airways had already chosen not to fly over there.

Thats a tad harsh IMO. Most airlines carried on flying over the area and the Ukrainians only warned them not to fly at or below 30,000 ft as the rebels weren't thought to have SAMs capable of reaching higher altitudes. The Malaysians followed all the directives they were given.

It wouldn't surprise me if the rebels at the missile controls making the decisions were drunk at the time, I doubt discipline is their strong point.

One way of resolving this issue is to classify the rebel group as a terrorist organisation, not hard given that they have downed an airliner and prevented access to the crash site. Russia could then be labelled as a state sponsor of terrorism, easy to prove given the level of communication between Moscow and the rebels. This would pave the way to much stronger sanctions which would not require consensus across the EU and US to implement at each step. That would hit the Russian economy hard.

[zako85]

Not everyone who shots down a civilian airliner is a terrorist. Recall the downing of Iran Air Flight 655 and Siberian Airlines 1812. If a civilian aircraft is shot by an accident, then the deaths of civilians should be classified as collateral damage or manslaughter.

When I heard the recording of the rebel conversation where they said "Cossacks just shut down an AN-26", things fell into place for me. Not disrespect, but Cossacks historically been a class of peasant warriors, who are not known for their great finesse so to speak. When I think of Cossacks, words rural, rustic, and xenophobic come into my mind. Historically, they formed infantry and cavalry units within the Russian Empire, USSR, and Russian Federation. These are not the guys I'd want to man a deadly SAM system anywhere.

And overall, knowing Russian and Russian culture, watching the videos of the rebel leaders speak on TV makes me think that these guys have an IQ of about 50.

Here is a recording of the PR disaster when a bunch of Cossack militia men attacked the famous "Pussy Riot" punk group in Sochi who were staging some kind of a music video recording there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFrZfluKDrc

The MH17 tragedy as is probably will create some additional political will to introduce harsher sanctions against Russia.

[KKS]

zako85, it's not a that Cossacks as we know from past years (XVII-XVIII). That people named himself a "Cossack" with only one reason - they born at that territory where Cossacks were expelled. And russia propaganda turn on this fact, that it's a true Cossacks and they support Putin.
True Cossacks was Ukranian, and their descendants now fighting with rebels(mercenaries) now at Eastern Ukraine

[COD]

Hmm...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/flight-mh370-cash-worth-20000-4049780

[driveace]

Looks like a HSBC bank employee in Malaysia is trying to drain money and funds from persons who were on the MH370 flight that vanished .The police know who they are and are also checking other passengers who were on the flight,to see their accounts are not drained

[Storm]

Apparently another "incident" happened to Malaysia Air a couple of days ago it seems.. It was in the daily paper here that the co-pilot on a flight from Thailand died while the plane was in the air. The captain did land the plane asap.

truly jinxed.

[Zeakiwi]

Marc Dugain has investigated the 'Maldives location' theories for MH370.
http://www.france24.com/en/20141218-dugain-malaysia-airlines-mh370-disappearance-diego-garcia-cover-up/

Question - how many US Navy ships were in the vicinity of the Maldives in March for a 'cleanup'?

[driveace]

Here we go again ,
An AirAsia Airbus A320 200 series goes missing on a flight from Kuala Lumpar to Singapore with just over 162 passengers and 7 aircrew.
The captain asked for permission to deviate off course due to bad weather .But since then NO emergency call ,or no contact either !Hopefully there can be some wreckage found ,as it's now over 12 hours overdue .Supposed to have a French captain ,but let's pray it's not another Muslim pilot on some mysterious agenda ,The search is abandoned due to failing light.Let's hope something is found quickly as there is still no trace of MH370 !

[donKey jote]

Here we go again ,
,but let's pray it's not another Muslim pilot on some mysterious agenda ,
Yes, here we go again, driveace and his mysterious agenda :rolleyes:

[driveace]

Yes, here we go again, driveace and his mysterious agenda :rolleyes:

So donkey your assumption on flight MH370 ,seeing as over 9 months has passed with nothing being found ,but to you it will not be a mystery !

[donKey jote]

I just wonder whether the pilot had dark eyes, like the majority of the people in that part of the world... We all know dark-eyed people are dodgy !

[driveace]

CEO of AirAsia is Tony Fernandes is he still a F1 team owner
That's sounds slanderous insinuating all people with dark eyes are dodgy ,but then again your a mine of information donkey!

[donKey jote]

Yeah well most Muslim pilots have dark eyes... Let's pray this one didn't !

[Storm]

CEO of AirAsia is Tony Fernandes is he still a F1 team owner
That's sounds slanderous insinuating all people with dark eyes are dodgy ,but then again your a mine of information donkey!
He was owner of Caterham and still owns Caterham Cars I think...
Launched AirAsia India from my city just last week-end too :s

[Storm]

looks like they at least found this plane

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/30/world/asia/airasia-missing-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Roamy]

what they don't tell you is that when the pitot tubes freeze the computer takes over and stalls the airplane. They blamed the pilot for this in the Air France crash. They are trying to tell you that the pilot has final say so and this is not true. Hence the old saying "if it ain't a Boeing I ain't going" Boeing planes allow the pilot the final say so. You Euros will probably say I am full of sh!t but Airbus is a roach !!! You can't convince me that the pilots are so dumb they can't fly the artificial horizon. If you freeze the pitot tube the computer will lower the nose which is why the Air France pilot had the joystick pulled back. They will find the black boxes with this crash but do you really think they will tell the truth??

[driveace]

Your talking a lot of sense there Roamy

[Rudy Tamasz]

what they don't tell you is that when the pitot tubes freeze the computer takes over and stalls the airplane. They blamed the pilot for this in the Air France crash. They are trying to tell you that the pilot has final say so and this is not true. Hence the old saying "if it ain't a Boeing I ain't going" Boeing planes allow the pilot the final say so. You Euros will probably say I am full of sh!t but Airbus is a roach !!! You can't convince me that the pilots are so dumb they can't fly the artificial horizon. If you freeze the pitot tube the computer will lower the nose which is why the Air France pilot had the joystick pulled back. They will find the black boxes with this crash but do you really think they will tell the truth??

Isn't Boeing something like a typical American car with everything automated and the pilot's role reduced to pointing the thing in the right direction?

[Roamy]

Isn't Boeing something like a typical American car with everything automated and the pilot's role reduced to pointing the thing in the right direction?

No Rudy that is the Airbus

[schmenke]

For clarity, it’s the pitot tube heater that may fail. The pitot tube itself is a static instrument with nothing more than a pressure transducer that measures the difference between the static and dynamic pressure. This difference is used to calculate relative velocity (which is why F1 cars use pitot tubes to calculate the car’s speed).

Because the pitot tube sticks out in the airstream it’s subject to icing, similar to the leading edges of wings, which is why an internal heater is used. I know on many smaller airplanes the pilot must manually engage the heater when icing may occur. I don’t know if this is an automated function on large commercial airplanes though.

Sorry, a bit OCD, I know :mark: .

[keysersoze]

Isn't Boeing something like a typical American car with everything automated and the pilot's role reduced to pointing the thing in the right direction?

Yes, let's be intellectually lazy and make sweeping generalizations about stuff. That certainly aids the discussion.

[Zeakiwi]

The Kazakhstan theory has re - emerged.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/66958195/mh370-flew-to-kazakhstan-journalists-new-theory

[Storm]

So Putin did it.

Why?

The article calls this theory fanciful, I call it silly unless he can provide an answer to why. Sounds like trying to cash in on the controversy by writing a book.

[Roamy]

lets have a poll - how many think it is in the Indian ocean?

[driveace]

I don't think it's in the Indian Ocean Roamy !
But bad news again today with the Airbus A 320 of German Airlines ,has crashed in the French Alps killing 150 passengers including staff
Another very sad day in Aviation

[Storm]

Lufthansa! (although its low cost wing) but a huge loss of life again :(

[driveace]

It's a 28 year old Airbus .The last A320 was the Air Asia plane that dropped into the sea in Asia with all loss of life .
Is there a problem with a) Airbus A320
B) old planes,or what is going on ?

[Big Ben]

It well my be neither. Two different causes that has nothing to do with the model or the age of the planes. This is the first plane crash of an airline I've flown with. Even though it happened a few years back the news left me speechless.

[Starter]

It's a 28 year old Airbus .The last A320 was the Air Asia plane that dropped into the sea in Asia with all loss of life .
Is there a problem with a) Airbus A320
B) old planes,or what is going on ?
There are one heck of a lot of A320s flying. To have two go down is actually a pretty small percentage.

[Tazio]

NBC is reporting that there is an (unsubstantiated) report that one of the pilots was locked out of the cockpit during the decent. This may not have been an accident.

[Roamy]

this is not an accident !!!!!

[Zeakiwi]

The next initial theory to join the list. The cockpit windscreen cracks & the co-pilot? at the controls not belted in? is sucked out. The Pilot? returning from a bio-break is unable to re-enter cockpit. The Plane takes an auto descent due to de-pressurisation.
I think the sound of the air rushing into the cockpit would exceed the noise of the pilot? knocking on the cockpit door.
How close to Gap - the Monte Carlo Rally route is the crash site?
I have relatives flying around Europe/ the Planet regularly, I certainly wonder where they are at times when unfortunate events like this happen.

[Big Ben]

The Plane takes an auto descent due to de-pressurisation.


I have doubts that planes do that.... that they auto-descent even in the case of de-pressurisation. I imagine changing altitude levels is always initiated by a pilot and always after being cleared by air traffic controllers. Otherwise it would be chaos up there if planes start descending by themselves with no warning.

[driveace]

So really sad and bad news if the US news programme is to be believed,that one pilot goes out of the cabin for whatever reason .Senses that the plane is dropping fast as a brick ,the doors locked from the inside ,the co pilot will not let him in !
Another rouge pilot ,and as Roamy said an accident,and 150 people killed due to a problem with the guy at the controls.
Should it now be illegal for either pilot to leave the flight deck ,once the plane is in the air ?

[Zeakiwi]

The Airbus over Australia did some movements on its own due to faulty software.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72
The B2 pilots have a stainless steel bowl for bio-breaks. A commode could probably be squeezed on the flight deck. Now just make sure the pilots don't eat the same batch of food.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_B-2_Spirit
Jet passenger flying must be stressful, there is the story of the two pilots who meet an alcoholics anonymous meeting and figure they must have flown the same plane together across the Atlantic while both were in an alcoholic stupor.

[Big Ben]

Should it now be illegal for either pilot to leave the flight deck ,once the plane is in the air ?

I guess they should have toilets in the cockpit then. I was under the impression that when a pilot leaves the cockpit there should be at least a flight attendant in there just to make sure someone can open that door if the other pilot loses consciousness for instance. At least that's what they were saying at some point in one air crash investigation episode and it makes sense if the door can be opened only from inside. I've noticed in my own flights that they don't follow this procedure. Maybe it's not mandatory in Europe?

[Lousada]

This video explains how the cockpit door in airplanes work. In case of a medical emergency it can always be opened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=138&v=ixEHV7c3VXs


EDIT: Just confirmed by the French prosecutors that it was indeed a suicide attack by the co-pilot :(

[Storm]

Yes I also read it on The Guardian's page just now.
Quite horrible that those innocent people knew for 10 minutes that they were going to their death. :mad:

[driveace]

Horrendous news for the parents and families too
Why are there so many accidents and pilots prepared to kill innocent passengers ,and in the name of what ?

[Tazio]

I'm wondering if the pilot was packing a 357 magnum he coould have blown the freaking' door open and shoved 4 inches of cold steel up that son of a britches ass, and give him an extreme enema. I realize it would likely cause a loss of cabin pressure, but the outcome couldn't end up any worse.

What do you think Roamy?

[donKey jote]

and in the name of what ?
The guy was ill, only god knows what was going through his mind at that moment

[driveace]

OK so he was ill !
That does not give him a license to take 149 other poor souls who have the utmost confidence in their pilots back to their homes that fateful day ,to their untimely deaths .If the guy was wanting to kill himself I would gladly give him the rope and kick the buffet away once the rope was round his neck gladly !I have bad depressive days but I don't arm myself and go on a killing spree

[Zeakiwi]

Probably a concerning aspect of MH370(indian Ocean etc) is the investigators have not investigated all lines of enquiry in a timely manner.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3025270/I-make-plane-s-doors-Inhabitants-tiny-remote-Island-Indian-Ocean-saw-low-flying-jet-morning-MH370-went-missing-plead-investigators-visit-share-story.html

[janvanvurpa]

OK so he was ill !
That does not give him a license to take 149 other poor souls who have the utmost confidence in their pilots back to their homes that fateful day ,to their untimely deaths .If the guy was wanting to kill himself I would gladly give him the rope and kick the buffet away once the rope was round his neck gladly !I have bad depressive days but I don't arm myself and go on a killing spree


Yet.

[driveace]

His problem was ,that he was e reject !
rejected by a girlfriend who was worried about him and his actions ,
Pleaded with the captain about 4 or 5 times to take a toilet break ,he wanted him off the flight deck
He wasn't just sick ,he was a mass murderer !!!
And NO I would never have the tendencies to kill another 150 people just because I had a problem with myself

[Zeakiwi]

The final phase of the summer/ autumn search for MH370 has commenced.
I feel the exercise is also about mapping the sea floor as well as looking for the plane.
https://www.atsb.gov.au/mh370-pages/updates/operational-update.aspx
The way the other theories have been downplayed might prove to be regrettable.

[Zeakiwi]

Byron Bailey theory - the pilot landed the place intact on the water.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/mh370-only-one-conclusion-makes-sense/story-fni0cx12-1227346739023

[Zeakiwi]

German Oceangraphers' computer model suggests MH370 searchers looking in the wrong place.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/search-for-wreck-of-malaysia-airlines-mh370-thousands-of-kilometres-off-target-say-experts/story-fnizu68q-1227503602383

[Zeakiwi]

British Airways Beoing 777 catches fires at Las Vegas.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/09/british-airways-plane-catches-fire-at-las-vegas-airport

Did the pilot accidentally switch off the transponder during the preflight check? Better catching fire on the ground rather than in the air? Something inflammable in the cargo?

[Storm]

What abt the MH370, I was wondering last night, didn't they find some debris washed up in Reunion or somewhere?

[BleAivano]

What abt the MH370, I was wondering last night, didn't they find some debris washed up in Reunion or somewhere?

They did find a debris, a flaperon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaperon) that have been confirmed as being a Boeing 777 flaperon but it has not yet been confirmed to be from the missing MH B777.
However the aircraft that is missing is the only 777 missing and unless someone planted a Boeing 777 flaperon at Reunion island, it has be from the missing MH B777.

[driveace]

Now confirmed by the French that the Flaperon ,was actually from the missing Boeing 777 ,and flight MH 370.
And looks like the plane was flying West rather than south down the West coast of Australia

[Roamy]

BFD they took part of the wing off and threw it in the ocean

[Zeakiwi]

I do not know if this is a 'lost in translation' joke. Wreckage allegedly found on Sugbay Island, Mindinao, Philippines.
Could this be another plane that went missing with no one noticing?
The bird hunters are from the 'stilt houses' with no tv.
http://english.astroawani.com/malaysia-news/claims-aircraft-wreckage-sugbay-island-fuels-speculation-76095

[Zeakiwi]

Wreckage from Flight 739?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3270423/He-tried-pilot-s-hat-flesh-man-s-jaw-fell-Filipinos-grisly-moment-MH370-wreckage-jungle-really-airliner-vanished-mysteriously-53-years-ago.html

Batteries in MH370's hold to blame?
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/exploding-batteries-in-mh370-cargo-hold-2015-10

[Zeakiwi]

Another speculative report?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3352311/MH370-crippled-sudden-catastrophic-electrical-failure-Mystery-power-cut-disabled-communications-allowed-jet-continue-flying-ran-fuel-reports-suggests.html

[Zeakiwi]

Theory number xxxxx - Decompression while Pilot Captain is taking a bio-break. Can't make it back to the captain's seat, Co-pilot has faulty oxygen equipment so only flips a few swtiches - plane onto autopilot etc.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/how-bathroom-break-could-doomed-9056477

[Rollo]

Co-pilot has faulty oxygen equipment so only flips a few swtiches - plane onto autopilot etc.[/url]

Zombie Plane that eventually runs out of radar view and maintains level flight on the same bearing? That seems like a sensible explanation to me.

[COD]

Theory number xxxxx - Decompression while Pilot Captain is taking a bio-break. Can't make it back to the captain's seat, Co-pilot has faulty oxygen equipment so only flips a few swtiches - plane onto autopilot etc.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/how-bathroom-break-could-doomed-9056477

Doesn't explain the swichoff of the radar or the strange path. This would be reasonable, had the plane just carried on in its original route

[Zeakiwi]

Windshield heater fire and leaky seals.
http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2016/10/25/mh370-windshield-theory/