Hayden Paddon

[bluuford]

Feel free..
his profile:
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php ... den-Paddon (http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=2157&t=Hayden-Paddon)

[Franky]

All the previous debate could be moved here as well ;)

[PLuto]

Does it have a sense to have special thread for one driver? Especially when I think that there is lot of words about him now when he joined Hyundai, but is na future...

To Franky: It is not possible to move all talks from "news thread" here as the posts were made before first post on this thread.

[bluuford]

Does it have a sense to have special thread for one driver? Especially when I think that there is lot of words about him now when he joined Hyundai, but is na future...

To Franky: It is not possible to move all talks from "news thread" here as the posts were made before first post on this thread.
Well, one third of recents posts in News and Rumors is filled with Hayden talk. I and I belive that most of the readers would prefer to read only News and Rumors from that thread not to read pages of discussion about him. Many dirvers have had their own thread, he is the next.. lets see.

[Mk2 RS2000]

A few more details here
http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00006121&10

[journeyman racer]

As an Australian, it's pretty exciting to read that Paddon has some potential. I agree with solitt, on the other thread, about hiring guys who can win. You look at Chris Atkinson, he didn't even bother winning an Australian title, before thinking he could do WRC. Now, he's just a journeyman (Not that there's anything wrong with that...Well, maybe there is). Aside from driving, you've also got to learn how to kick arse.

[Mirek]

Just a little point for You.

Loeb has never won national title, he even never tried. He did only Citroën Saxo Trophy which he won before he moved to JWRC (which he won on first attempt). Same goes for Ogier. He went to JWRC with only two seasons in Peugeot 206XS trophy (winner in 2007) followed by JWRC victory on first attempt in 2008. Tommi Mäkinen also never won a national title (only one gr.N class one but not overall) and the same goes for Juha Kankkunen or Walter Röhl, . The list of WRC champions who never won their homeland title is long and the fact that none of the most successful (Loeb, Mäkinen, Kankkunen) bothered with trying at home shows that it's relatively irrelevant and I tend to agree with the opinion that it's a waste of time for those who really want to become something and has a backing for it. Taking experience all around the world even in small car gives way more than driving at home.

[stefanvv]

Dimitar Iliev won 9 times Bulgarian Rally title (looks like a decent record), but that didn't mean anything on international scene. Don't try to find any pattern in successful drivers, it is meaningless. The only fact that counts is one's personal ambition and abilities of course. I'm sure Paddon has the ambition, the abilities we can measure after at least 1 full season with WRC, if it only depends of his driving. No one has jumped in WRC and won right away, even Loeb.

[focus206]

Loeb has never won national title, he even never tried.
I thought Loeb won the 2001 French Championship with the Xsara Kit Car :confused:
but indeed I agree with that, many drivers had success at world level without winning anything in their country and especially vice versa.

[N.O.T]

talk is now meaningless... it is good that a fast driver gets his chance... if he is the next Loeb is good for the sport if he is not the little kids will run back to their mommies...

[Mirek]

I thought Loeb won the 2001 French Championship with the Xsara Kit Car :confused:
but indeed I agree with that, many drivers had success at world level without winning anything in their country and especially vice versa.

Ah, You are right. I forgot. Thank You

[Rallyper]

For sure it´s not an argument winning or not in homeland championship.
One of the most experienced guys I know with a lot of connections in the worldwide rallying once said that the only thing that matters is to start doing rallies abroad out in Europe at lowest possible cost (small car).

I do believe that is still the concept to adapt becoming a future WRC-star. Of course the talent in driving must be there as well.

[Munkvy]

Just a little point for You.

Loeb has never won national title, he even never tried. He did only Citroën Saxo Trophy which he won before he moved to JWRC (which he won on first attempt). Same goes for Ogier. He went to JWRC with only two seasons in Peugeot 206XS trophy (winner in 2007) followed by JWRC victory on first attempt in 2008. Tommi Mäkinen also never won a national title (only one gr.N class one but not overall) and the same goes for Juha Kankkunen or Walter Röhl, . The list of WRC champions who never won their homeland title is long and the fact that none of the most successful (Loeb, Mäkinen, Kankkunen) bothered with trying at home shows that it's relatively irrelevant and I tend to agree with the opinion that it's a waste of time for those who really want to become something and has a backing for it. Taking experience all around the world even in small car gives way more than driving at home.

Most of those names came from countries with very strong backing for rallying and an established process for building people up to the top tiers of rallying (ie the ASN actually supports/funds in a significant way as the have the ability to!). Plus they are European, so the key events to learn in are local and comparatively cheap (I mean this in comparison to flying half way round the world with your team and car).

You can't really compare that to the Asia Pacific market, which has very little ability to progress swiftly with good competition and at a reasonable cost. APRC is relatively expensive and a very limited range of competitors (last year rounds were won outright by a 2WD R1 car) and doesn't really have a well contested 2WD feeder category.

Australia I guess is an option, but only recently has their been a chance to progress in a well supported 2WD series? So realistically you have to spend some time here learning how to drive and succeed before you can show enough worth to be able to go further. There has been several from this region who have moved to competing internationally but Atkinson, Possum Bourne and Arai are the only ones who have succeeded to some degree at this for some time now, and they all date back to effectively a different generation in the WRC.

So only real option is to move to Europe and do the events you can afford for those of us from the bottom of the world. But you can't get support to do that without a money tree or sponsors, and to get sponsors you need results... So in this context I feel winning local/regional events is important for anyone from this part of the world.

[stefanvv]

Atkinson has plenty of WRC starts.

[Mirek]

Most of those names came from countries with very strong backing for rallying and an established process for building people up to the top tiers of rallying (ie the ASN actually supports/funds in a significant way as the have the ability to!). Plus they are European, so the key events to learn in are local and comparatively cheap (I mean this in comparison to flying half way round the world with your team and car).

You can't really compare that to the Asia Pacific market, which has very little ability to progress swiftly with good competition and at a reasonable cost. APRC is relatively expensive and a very limited range of competitors (last year rounds were won outright by a 2WD R1 car) and doesn't really have a well contested 2WD feeder category.

Australia I guess is an option, but only recently has their been a chance to progress in a well supported 2WD series? So realistically you have to spend some time here learning how to drive and succeed before you can show enough worth to be able to go further. There has been several from this region who have moved to competing internationally but Atkinson, Possum Bourne and Arai are the only ones who have succeeded to some degree at this for some time now, and they all date back to effectively a different generation in the WRC.

So only real option is to move to Europe and do the events you can afford for those of us from the bottom of the world. But you can't get support to do that without a money tree or sponsors, and to get sponsors you need results... So in this context I feel winning local/regional events is important for anyone from this part of the world.

Fair point. Thank You.

[sollitt]

For sure it´s not an argument winning or not in homeland championship. My reference to winning a national tile was not a suggestion that doing so is an automatic ticket to a WRC seat, or that it should be a prerequisite.
It was merely one part of a suggestion, that has been paraphrased by a few, that if you want to hire someone to win you're better to hire someone who has won everything they've entered rather than someone who has won nothing.
Those who win continually are likely to continue to do so, those who don't are likely to continue not to.

[stefanvv]

For sure it´s not an argument winning or not in homeland championship. My reference to winning a national tile was not a suggestion that doing so is an automatic ticket to a WRC seat, or that it should be a prerequisite.
It was merely one part of a suggestion, that has been paraphrased by a few, that if you want to hire someone to win you're better to hire someone who has won everything they've entered rather than someone who has won nothing.
Those who win continually are likely to continue to do so, those who don't are likely to continue not to.
I undesrtand your point, a winner is a winner no matter what championship he is in (of course it can't mean much depending of the championship, as I pointed out "our Bulgarian" case). The fact Paddon is in WRC this year already means he is a winner, as it turns out how difficult it is to get there for drivers of this area indeed. Let the fortune be with him to achieve his goals, because this is rare opportunity as he said himself.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Last weekend saw the running of the Otago Rally and the Otago Classic Rally. This event is a round of the NZ Rally Championship with 292km of special stage distance.

The footage is in-car from Paddons BDG Historic Escort.
Hayden won the event outright.
it has been 25 years since a 2WD car has won a round of the NZ Championship

Enjoy the 15.05km Kuri Bush stage with Hayden

For those who are interested the Rallysafe unit is showing distance, elapsed time and road speed.

https://www.facebook.com/haydenpaddonwrc/videos/831092926926498/

[AL14]

I wanted to resurrect this thread because I've read this article about Paddon's coaching session at Le Mans Circuit.
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september/paddon-lemans/page/2813--12-12-.html

But especially because this guy is in my opinion the real surprise of this season.
He is the only one that showed potential and in the meantime achieve some great results and improvements compared to last year.

He seems to me he is also a very clever guy with a cool head. He is not that kind of guy that wants all and soon. He is ambituous but smart enough not to ruin everything with haste to reach the level he wants to be.

And I also like all the works he is doing with his coaching sessions on tarmac and I am sure he will improve in this surface as well.

I think he should also improve his pacenote system which seems to me too much simplistic but I think he has the right mentality to be one or maybe the only interesting prospect in WRC at the moment.
The other could be Tanak but Paddon seems to me more clever and mature, even if in raw speed Tanak is a bit better in my opinion.

What do you think about?

[Rallyper]

+1 Paddon is a future star in WRC.

[stefanvv]

I wanted to resurrect this thread because I've read this article about Paddon's coaching session at Le Mans Circuit.
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september/paddon-lemans/page/2813--12-12-.html

But especially because this guy is in my opinion the real surprise of this season.
He is the only one that showed potential and in the meantime achieve some great results and improvements compared to last year.

He seems to me he is also a very clever guy with a cool head. He is not that kind of guy that wants all and soon. He is ambituous but smart enough not to ruin everything with haste to reach the level he wants to be.

And I also like all the works he is doing with his coaching sessions on tarmac and I am sure he will improve in this surface as well.

I think he should also improve his pacenote system which seems to me too much simplistic but I think he has the right mentality to be one or maybe the only interesting prospect in WRC at the moment.
The other could be Tanak but Paddon seems to me more clever and mature, even if in raw speed Tanak is a bit better in my opinion.

What do you think about?

I agree. Somehow I saw that coming when he signed Hyundai, of course 1st year is a learning year and now the "real" results begin to come. He seems very positive and dedicated driver with talent. That seems to be the whole package along with his methodical work. He also is not that slow on asphalt either, but perhaps Germany result was little disappointing for him.

[Zeakiwi]

I think the Fiesta has a better suspension, steering than the Hyundai to enable Tanak to push it harder than Paddon can push the Hyundai.
https://youtu.be/Lg2Q8d-TNPQ

[Mk2 RS2000]

I think the Fiesta has a better suspension, steering than the Hyundai to enable Tanak to push it harder than Paddon can push the Hyundai.
https://youtu.be/Lg2Q8d-TNPQ

Remember that Hayden has been running the obsolete car for most of the season, he has only had the good gearbox and improved suspension travel for very recent events, and then the new car for Finland and Australia.

[Lundefaret]

Haydon Paddon is a very talented driver, with a very good potential.

I think Paddon - and other drivers wanting to challenge Ogier - most difficult task is to realize how extremely hard they have to work to catch up on Ogier, and how extremely hard Ogier worked to reach the place he is at now. And I am not talking about physical fitness, which I take as a given.

What does Paddon (and all the others) need to do to further improve on his very good talent:

As Lasse Kjus, the several times Olympic and World Champion Gold medal alpine skier said to me when I interviewed him:
"The best athletes are those that even after a victory, dare to look in the mirror to focus 100% on finding faults and weaknesses, and endure extreme amounts of pain to better these."

It is very good that Paddond goes to France to drive with a rally tutor, but if Paddon really wants to improve on tarmac (which I think he has a very good potential to do) this - and all other aspects he needs to improve - needs to be done with a certain level of frequency.

The way the brain learns is trough introduction and repetition. Whiteout repetition it is very difficult to pogramme new ways of doing things (some repetition can also come trough visualization).
On a rally/in a race, the stress levels are so high that You will not "rise to the acation" and do the new things You have learned, but "fall to Your level of competence" and revert to the old ways of doing things, this is something learned trough experience by the Special Forces around the world.

Paddon is strong on what he has done the most, and that is fast gravel rallies with a low grade of inputs per minute.

To beat Ogier he needs to get an accurate view of where You gain and loose time, and be able to do that also when the roads/surfaces becomes more technical. And for this You need to train a lot. But training/practising does not only need to be in a rally car, it can be:
- Watching inboards and outboards
- Driving go carts
- Driving a regular road car on regular roads to program a new line/new lines
- Driving UTVs
- Etc etc
- And to develop a pace notes system where all this can be incorporated, and practice this.

So how many hours a week?

If all the training is done in the correct direction, with correct tutoring, and always challenging the comfort zone in a lesser or larger degree:

- 20 hours of driving related training a week
- 20 hours of pace notes training a week
On top of this comes the physical training, and off course the competitions, wich should not count as training.

So what do Paddon and the other drivers need to do to motivate them self to do this?
- Firtsly, if they are not motivated in the outset to do this, they should conclude on that they will never beat Ogier over a season.
- If they are motivated, but struggle when times are tough (as all do), they should hang a picture of a smiling Ogier in their bathroom, in their gym, in their car, in their bedroom and in all other places they are a lot, and know that an hour of missed training is an hour missed in the race to wipe that smirk of Ogiers face.

Paddon has potential, no doubt about that. Lets just hope that he doesn't fall in the same trap as everybody else, taking to lightly on how much work, effort, and pain You have to endure to beat Ogier.

[EstWRC]

I wanted to resurrect this thread because I've read this article about Paddon's coaching session at Le Mans Circuit.
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september/paddon-lemans/page/2813--12-12-.html

But especially because this guy is in my opinion the real surprise of this season.
He is the only one that showed potential and in the meantime achieve some great results and improvements compared to last year.

He seems to me he is also a very clever guy with a cool head. He is not that kind of guy that wants all and soon. He is ambituous but smart enough not to ruin everything with haste to reach the level he wants to be.

And I also like all the works he is doing with his coaching sessions on tarmac and I am sure he will improve in this surface as well.

I think he should also improve his pacenote system which seems to me too much simplistic but I think he has the right mentality to be one or maybe the only interesting prospect in WRC at the moment.
The other could be Tanak but Paddon seems to me more clever and mature, even if in raw speed Tanak is a bit better in my opinion.

What do you think about?

i agree with you. Tänak has better raw speed, i actually think that Tänak is one of the fastest or fastest in raw speed but like you said Paddon at the moment seems to be more clever and mature. The other thing which speaks for Paddon is that he has experienced co-driver while Raigo is having his first year in a WRC car. Nevertheless both havent shined after their mega performances after Sardinia and Poland respectively, they have been setting some great stage times but have had some set-up issues and so on.

But these two guys are the future in WRC IMO. Every rally i'm rooting for both of them.

[AL14]

The way the brain learns is trough introduction and repetition. Whiteout repetition it is very difficult to pogramme new ways of doing things (some repetition can also come trough visualization).

...

To beat Ogier he needs to get an accurate view of where You gain and loose time, and be able to do that also when the roads/surfaces becomes more technical. And for this You need to train a lot. But training/practising does not only need to be in a rally car, it can be:
- Watching inboards and outboards
- Driving go carts
- Driving a regular road car on regular roads to program a new line/new lines
- Driving UTVs
- Etc etc
- And to develop a pace notes system where all this can be incorporated, and practice this.



I think he is already doing this kind of work.


So how many hours a week?

If all the training is done in the correct direction, with correct tutoring, and always challenging the comfort zone in a lesser or larger degree:

- 20 hours of driving related training a week
- 20 hours of pace notes training a week
On top of this comes the physical training, and off course the competitions, wich should not count as training.

You will need public roads and circuits 40 hours per day all days, it is a bit difficult. Don't you think?
But how about his pace notes? I'm curious to know what you think about his actual notes. I think they are a bit poor...


So what do Paddon and the other drivers need to do to motivate them self to do this?
- Firtsly, if they are not motivated in the outset to do this, they should conclude on that they will never beat Ogier over a season.
- If they are motivated, but struggle when times are tough (as all do), they should hang a picture of a smiling Ogier in their bathroom, in their gym, in their car, in their bedroom and in all other places they are a lot, and know that an hour of missed training is an hour missed in the race to wipe that smirk of Ogiers face.

I think Ogiers face will be demotivational rather than the contrary. ;)

[AL14]

i agree with you. Tänak has better raw speed, i actually think that Tänak is one of the fastest or fastest in raw speed but like you said Paddon at the moment seems to be more clever and mature. The other thing which speaks for Paddon is that he has experienced co-driver while Raigo is having his first year in a WRC car. Nevertheless both havent shined after their mega performances after Sardinia and Poland respectively, they have been setting some great stage times but have had some set-up issues and so on.

But these two guys are the future in WRC IMO. Every rally i'm rooting for both of them.

I was expecting one comment by you Est, and I was pretty sure you didn't agree about my view on Tanak but I see you've been more "honest" than I thought. I, for example, I root for Latvala and I'm not "clear headed" when it comes to judge him. :)
I just don't believe you when you say you root for both of them: I'm sure you like Paddon but if Tanak is battling against him you will have no doubt about who support. ;)

[EstWRC]

Of course im supporting Tänak more if they are battling against each other, thats natural, but im a fan of both of them and waiting that one of them will be troubling Ogier one more time this season and all the way next year.

[Lundefaret]

You will need public roads and circuits 40 hours per day all days, it is a bit difficult. Don't you think?
But how about his pace notes? I'm curious to know what you think about his actual notes. I think they are a bit poor...


Firstly: No its not a problem because the public road thing You can do in traffic. And a lot of the driving/visualization etc dont demand rally stage quality roads.

Secondly: In my mind his pace notes are to simple, and they make it very hard work to drive fast on technical stages. The gradings etc seems okay, but he doesn´t have the extra info needed. Especially radius and apex point strategy. If he developed his pace notes system, he could have a lot of speed for "free" on technical stages, and he could be a lot safer on the fast stuff.

[Mk2 RS2000]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86i3PhVkEyc


For those who have not yet seen it, here is a bit more on the background of Hayden

[Toyoda]

Firstly: No its not a problem because the public road thing You can do in traffic. And a lot of the driving/visualization etc dont demand rally stage quality roads.

Secondly: In my mind his pace notes are to simple, and they make it very hard work to drive fast on technical stages. The gradings etc seems okay, but he doesn´t have the extra info needed. Especially radius and apex point strategy. If he developed his pace notes system, he could have a lot of speed for "free" on technical stages, and he could be a lot safer on the fast stuff.

Since Sardinia he has added a gear number to his pace notes (which is after the Youtube Video)
I think his pace notes are nice and simple, he sets fast times on stages that are new, I remember reading the difference between Solbergs notes and Loebs notes was Solbergs were much longer, and Loeb did fairly well?
But I know jack about notes so im probably wrong :)

[Mk2 RS2000]

Since Sardinia he has added a gear number to his pace notes (which is after the Youtube Video)
I think his pace notes are nice and simple, he sets fast times on stages that are new, I remember reading the difference between Solbergs notes and Loebs notes was Solbergs were much longer, and Loeb did fairly well?
But I know jack about notes so im probably wrong :)

Being brought up on New Zealand rallies Hayden and John both are used to competing in "Blind events" that is on stages without any form of recce or notes as they are strictly forbidden on most events in the South Island.
In the North Island many events use Jemba stage notes but again without any form of recce permitted.
For the NZ Rally Championship events Jemba stage notes are available plus a one pass recce is permitted and many take this opportunity to write their own notes.
A number who write their own notes then spend countless hours on the night before the rally viewing in car footage and checking their notes by this method.

Perhaps this is where Hayden and John have a slight advantage when on new stages.

It is only on the FIA events that a two pass recce is permitted.

[cali]

i agree with you. Tänak has better raw speed, i actually think that Tänak is one of the fastest or fastest in raw speed but like you said Paddon at the moment seems to be more clever and mature. The other thing which speaks for Paddon is that he has experienced co-driver while Raigo is having his first year in a WRC car. Nevertheless both havent shined after their mega performances after Sardinia and Poland respectively, they have been setting some great stage times but have had some set-up issues and so on.

But these two guys are the future in WRC IMO. Every rally i'm rooting for both of them.
No, Tänak definetely has a long way to go with his raw speed. It's versatility that matters and he is nowhere near the pace in slow and twisty gravel events and on tarmac. A lot to learn, specially mental training would be big help. At some point I thought that Tänak has the upper hand on Paddon, but atm seems that Paddon is making it slow and steady, but improving all the time. Tänak shone only in Poland, the event which had more like estonian roads, benefiting the lack of knowledge by experienced drivers and taking huuuuuuuuge risks - basically overdriving the car. He was lucky that time around, but you could clearly see what damage the overdriving has done to his reputation. I'm not wearing estonian glasses, so this statement is honest and not filled with patriotism. I'm not a patriotic person :)

[Grundo Farb]

No, Tänak definetely has a long way to go with his raw speed. It's versatility that matters and he is nowhere near the pace in slow and twisty gravel events and on tarmac. A lot to learn, specially mental training would be big help. At some point I thought that Tänak has the upper hand on Paddon, but atm seems that Paddon is making it slow and steady, but improving all the time. Tänak shone only in Poland, the event which had more like estonian roads, benefiting the lack of knowledge by experienced drivers and taking huuuuuuuuge risks - basically overdriving the car. He was lucky that time around, but you could clearly see what damage the overdriving has done to his reputation. I'm not wearing estonian glasses, so this statement is honest and not filled with patriotism. I'm not a patriotic person :)

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Watching the footage of Tanak in Poland he was very fast but every corner there was a potential crash coming.
What I like about Paddon is he has a plan and is actually executing his plan. Listening to Colin the voice of rally previously he has said the two hardest workers in the field are Neuville and Paddon.

I also think Paddon is one of the neatest/tidiest and most accurate drivers in the field, I remember watching a WRC round a few years ago when Paddon was in the Skoda, standing at a corner there were two drivers who took the widest line into a corner, hit the apex perfectly and drove away the cleanest, that was Paddon and Loeb. I'm not comparing the two as the cars are different etc (and one is Loeb and the other has a long way to go) but looking at the tyre marks on the road you can tell if smooth is fast these two were head and shoulders above. The worst was Ken Block (we laughed that he needed an aircraft hanger to aim for as his lines were so bad) closely followed by Henning Solberg and Latvala. But then that was a few years ago.

[dimviii]

‏@HaydenPaddon
Everyday is a school day! Really informative day at the track today with @Nico_Bernardi__ refining Tarmac driving

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/646380763324227584

[Simmi]

Nicolas Bernardi - that is a name I have not heard in a while.

Last seen in the WRC in a....
That would make a good quiz question ;)

http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=260&t=Nicolas-Bernardi

[sindroms]

I also think Paddon is one of the neatest/tidiest and most accurate drivers in the field, I remember watching a WRC round a few years ago when Paddon was in the Skoda, standing at a corner there were two drivers who took the widest line into a corner, hit the apex perfectly and drove away the cleanest, that was Paddon and Loeb.

Somehow I don't agree with that. I have seen Paddon several times on gravel (Finland, Poland) and his trademark always was aggressive driving using sideways and putting car in oversteering. Judging by this year results he starts to change his driving style probably. Without that it's not possible for him to create decent results.

[AL14]

Clean and tidy doesn't mean you should not be sideway when needed. And yes, he is not perfect and has still long way to go but I think he is in the right path

[Grundo Farb]

Clean and tidy doesn't mean you should not be sideway when needed. And yes, he is not perfect and has still long way to go but I think he is in the right path

Yep, didn't say anything about not going sideways but about taking what looked like the fastest line around the corner.

[sindroms]

Clean and tidy doesn't mean you should not be sideway when needed. And yes, he is not perfect and has still long way to go but I think he is in the right path

I understand your and Grundo Farb point, but Paddon was tended to use sideways in places where it isn't necessary at all. It seemed to me a little bit an old fashion style where you must throw car in to bend to be quick.

[stefanvv]

I think it depends when and why that could happen. Possibly car setup problems/mechanical issues?!? If everything with the car is right I believe his style is very clean and effective.

[AL14]

I understand your and Grundo Farb point, but Paddon was tended to use sideways in places where it isn't necessary at all. It seemed to me a little bit an old fashion style where you must throw car in to bend to be quick.

I didn't notice such drive by Paddon both live (but well, I was in Sardinia ;) ) or in videos and onboards.
Maybe, as stefanvv says, you saw him driving like that because of setup issues or maybe some nervous drive...He was not too much in shape at the beginning of the season and frustration can affect your driving style sometimes.

[sindroms]

I didn't notice such drive by Paddon both live (but well, I was in Sardinia ;) ) or in videos and onboards.
Maybe, as stefanvv says, you saw him driving like that because of setup issues or maybe some nervous drive...He was not too much in shape at the beginning of the season and frustration can affect your driving style sometimes.

I am talking about two previous year in fact (based on my Finland 2013, 2014 and Poland 2014 experience) :)
As I said in previous post - could be that he has changed his driving style since then or got used to car/got better setups.

[AL14]

I am talking about two previous year in fact (based on my Finland 2013, 2014 and Poland 2014 experience) :)
As I said in previous post - could be that he has changed his driving style since then or got used to car/got better setups.

Yes he did. He said it himself he has worked to change it by looking at onboards etc... Not an easy job but results are there.

[dimviii]

Come on guys make some interesting questions to Paddon!!


Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Looking forward to answering your #askpaddon questions tonight from 8pm CET (8am NZT) @HyundaiWRC @OfficialWRC

[AL14]

Come on guys make some interesting questions to Paddon!!


Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Looking forward to answering your #askpaddon questions tonight from 8pm CET (8am NZT) @HyundaiWRC @OfficialWRC

Yes, don't be shine, he does not run from uncomfortable question. :)

[dimviii]

its live
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon

[EstWRC]

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon 24m24 minutes ago
Hayden Paddon Retweeted Martin Pešl
It's not my place to choose - I will drive what ever car I'm given ��. Enjoy working with Dani though Hayden Paddon added,
Martin Pešl @pesl78
Hi @HaydenPaddon Who would you choose as a teammate for next year (in the 1st team of course ;)) #askHayden


:p

[turves]

did you see the question from @velezisNik?

#askpaddon
Congrats for new contract! Can you tell us your relationship with Thierry?

To which Hayden replied "We respect each other as drivers and we are both working hard to help the team.

My response to that was "that response actually says 1000 more words", which Hayden then favourited and I hope was reading between the lines as I wanted, so to me is confirmation that neither he or Neuville will be sending each others Christmas cards...

Ive not heard them talk about each other much, but it seems they dont get on.

[Toyoda]

did you see the question from @velezisNik?

#askpaddon
Congrats for new contract! Can you tell us your relationship with Thierry?

To which Hayden replied "We respect each other as drivers and we are both working hard to help the team.

My response to that was "that response actually says 1000 more words", which Hayden then favourited and I hope was reading between the lines as I wanted, so to me is confirmation that neither he or Neuville will be sending each others Christmas cards...

Ive not heard them talk about each other much, but it seems they dont get on.

So at 5:15 reaction in this interview says it all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sujicfrrsU
I think Hayden Paddon is a genuinely nice guy who works hard,

Also it may have stemmed from Neuvilles comments about wanting a stronger team than Hayden and Sordo around him I believe here http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116343

[dimviii]

Also it may have stemmed from Neuvilles comments about wanting a stronger team than Hayden and Sordo around him I believe here http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116343
all the interview is lolzzz

[RAS007]

all the interview is lolzzz


The interview is over a year old.

[Toyoda]

The interview is over a year old.

Congrates on being able to read a date and missing the point of the link, discussing where why and if there bad blood between them,

ss22 onboard tells it all on the PAadon Neuville relationship, especially Kennards comments at 7:35 haha

[Simmi]

I don't think there's any doubt at all they don't get on. Nice to have a bit of rivalry and needle back in the WRC at least. It is sorely missing drama, personalities and these kind of storylines.

[sollitt]

Nice to have a bit of rivalry ... I don't know that "rivalry" would be an accurate way to describe what's happening here.
If there's bad blood here it'll one directional only.

[Grundo Farb]

I don't know that "rivalry" would be an accurate way to describe what's happening here.
If there's bad blood here it'll one directional only.

I wouldn't describe it as bad blood - bad blood indicates one of them has done something to the other which I don't think is the case. It seems from everything I have read Dani has helped Hayden and they seem to put aside their driving rivalry and respect each other. I get the feeling with Thierry that he is a prima donna (I didn't used to think this and it seems only in the last 6 months it seems to be like that). He hides behind the Number 1 driver status and probably gets preferential treatment within the team and sees himself on the same level as Ogier.

Hayden let himself down with his comments at the stage end and if there wasn't much of a problem before there will be one now I think.

Rivalry is good. It means the strongest survive. What I love about what is happening at Hyundai is they are now treating Hayden as a genuine competitor to Dani and Thierry. In his twitter interview someone asked about which team he will be in next year and Hayden said I don't care, not up to me but we will all be in the same cars - the change to the original plan of only having the two 2016 cars may also have upset Thierry...

[Mk2 RS2000]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/videos/2015/rallye-spanien/neuville-crash-spanien/ By the looks of this someone has gone off the road on a closed throttle and a brake lock up which was only released at the last moment. Can't help wondering if the driveshaft breakage occurred when the first wheel of the car regained the traction of the tarmac whilst bouncing off the rev limiter so I guess I am of the same opinion as Hayden on this one.

[AL14]

Paddon has achivied a lot this year. He got in the podium, he finished top5 constistently, he earned a long contract. But he has a long way to go. And a lot more achievements to get.

Now the game is serious, he has to get more podium, win rallies and, very important earn the n1 status in the team. This status is currently Thierry's one. This is what is happening.

When a alpha male in wild world is ruling his group, if you want to become like him you have no choice and start to fight him. No room for two alpha.

The same is happening between Paddon and Neuville. The reason of their arguments, the statements are details. If Paddon did not want to become N1 and if Thierry didn't feel his status in danger they would be friend and loving each other.

[Baig2507]

Clearly Neuville has been No 1 this season but his poor performances, particularly in the second half of the season, combined with what appears to be his reluctance to drive for the benefit of the team instead of himself and the teams decision to drop him from the main team for GB suggest his status in the team is at best on an equal footing with Sordo & Paddon and it appears eminently possible that if Sordo & Paddon deliver for the team in GB, Neuville may well start 2016 in the backup driver role.

[SubaruNorway]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/videos/2015/rallye-spanien/neuville-crash-spanien/ By the looks of this someone has gone off the road on a closed throttle and a brake lock up which was only released at the last moment. Can't help wondering if the driveshaft breakage occurred when the first wheel of the car regained the traction of the tarmac whilst bouncing off the rev limiter so I guess I am of the same opinion as Hayden on this one.

Watch SS2 on WRC+ around 7min i think it was, you can clearly hear a crunching noise under braking, not strange that a driveshaft would break there since it's so bumpy.

[leighton323]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbbPXSjqaVs

Old Footage of Paddon

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon says Hyundai must capitalise on being the only team to bring a new car to the 2016 World Rally Championship.

The Kiwi says he wants to be in a position to be chasing a victory on every gravel round of the series next year.

Hyundai reveals its new generation i20 WRC in time for next year’s Monte Carlo Rally – with the Koreans expecting to hit the ground running with the new car after it was delayed from delivery in the middle of this year. Team principal Michel Nandan has always insisted the car won’t be launched until it’s a Volkswagen-beater.

Paddon, who recently signed a three-year deal with the Korean manufacturer, said: “Next year’s the best chance for us to win – we don’t know where everybody else is with the 2017 cars, but we’re the only ones coming out with a new car next season. We know we’ve made a step with that car and we can see we’re not far away with the current car. We’ve got to make the most of that.

“For me, I’m looking to win any of the gravel rounds. I’ve got good experience of those rallies now and that’s got to be realistic for me.

“We have a plan for the next three years and the first stage of that plan is to win rallies next season. The new car is really progressing well. OK, I’ve only done a couple of tests in it – one of gravel and one on tarmac – but it’s definitely going to be a fast car on gravel rallies. It’s a one-year car, though and now we need to make sure we have got the reliability as well as the speed.”

http://www.maxrally.com/2015/11/02/paddon-wants-the-most-from-the-new-motor

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Tonight at 8pm CET (8am NZT) we will have our last #askpaddon of the year. Fire through any burning questions ��

[dimviii]

Paddon explains his notes system at his twitter for those who is interesting about
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon

[KiwiWRCfan]

Hayden's To Do List
Win NZRC ✅✅✅
Win PWRC ✅
Win a WRC stage ✅
Lead a WRC event ✅
Get on WRC podium ✅
win WRC power stage ✅
Win #WRC event ✅

[Eli]

Hayden's To Do List
Win NZRC ✅✅✅
Win PWRC ✅
Win a WRC stage ✅
Lead a WRC event ✅
Get on WRC podium ✅
win WRC power stage ✅
Win #WRC event ✅

only one left-Win WRC itself...

[dimviii]

come on guys,prepare your questions! Questions including Ogier incident too.

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

This could be a busy one �� but will be answering your #askpaddon questions today at 0700 NZT (2100 CET). #WRC

[dimviii]

here we go,first question

Traxx - WR is Free ‏@Traxx_WiF

@HaydenPaddon Congrats for this win ! What's happened with @SebOgier after press conf saturday ? #askpaddon

[EightGear]

:D


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/2514a915b233afa31432ab8ec562679a.jpg

[seb_sh]

Poor guy instead of asking about the win people are asking about Ogier :P

[dimviii]

@HaydenPaddon #askpaddon Congratulations for the 1st ! Which feeling before SS18 ? All risk & Flat out for the win or Fast & Secure 2nd ?

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Ο χρήστης Hayden Paddon έκανε Retweet BILLIOT Jérémie

I was only thinking about the win. Especially after the exchange we had night before, I did not want to be beaten

[dimviii]

like the attitude of this guy


Ross Baigent
‏@Rossebaigent

#askpaddon You have had huge praise for your great performance at Argentina. Have you reset your goals for the rest of the year? Hope so!

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Ο χρήστης Hayden Paddon έκανε Retweet Ross Baigent

My goal for every rally is to perform to the maximum, but on equal terms still need to work to match Seb

[stefanvv]

like the attitude of this guy


Ross Baigent
‏@Rossebaigent

#askpaddon You have had huge praise for your great performance at Argentina. Have you reset your goals for the rest of the year? Hope so!

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Ο χρήστης Hayden Paddon έκανε Retweet Ross Baigent

My goal for every rally is to perform to the maximum, but on equal terms still need to work to match Seb

Honestly I didn't expect different answer from him.

[dimviii]

Honestly I didn't expect different answer from him.

Not all drivers when win with clean road answer like that.

[stefanvv]

Not all drivers when win with clean road answer like that.

Yeah, most drivers would be over the moon and rest on this historic success. Paddon is a bit different person and is fully aware the hard work is yet to come.

[N.O.T]

Is this the first time Ogier lost a straight battle with another driver ??

The era where Loeb was treating him like a garbage dog is excluded of course.

[GravelBen]

Is this the first time Ogier lost a straight battle with another driver ??

Of course not, but people have short memories.

[EightGear]

Is this the first time Ogier lost a straight battle with another driver ??

The era where Loeb was treating him like a garbage dog is excluded of course.
Argentina '14, Portugal '15, probably more.

[Eli]

Argentina '14, Portugal '15, probably more.

Finland '14-'15, France '14, Corsica '15, don't know how many more times...

[stefanvv]

I thought the thread is about Paddon, just saying...

[dimviii]

Paddon just stopped twitting.For some 2 hours non stop. Wish all drivers do that.

[AL14]

Does anyone have the transcription of the press conference where Paddon and Ogier had the argument?
WHere are journalists where we need them?

[N.O.T]

Finland '14-'15, France '14, Corsica '15, don't know how many more times...

France 14 and 15 he had technical problem early and was out.

but yes he has lost before but only in Finland he as was close to victory as on this event.

[AL14]

France 14 and 15 he had technical problem early and was out.

but yes he has lost before but only in Finland he as was close to victory as on this event.

Also Argentina '14 was a straight fight (in my opinion best Latvala's rally in a while but we are OT)
France '14 he had a spin that brought into a techincal problem, while in France '15 he got a puncture so yes they are not the case.

[Doon]

Don't want to sound too pro-Ogier, but I think we are a bit deluded to say this was a straight fight. OK - the last stage was done on equal terms, but lets not fool ourselves into think Ogier wouldn't have gone into that stage with anything less than a 30 second lead if the road conditions were equal for everyone.

They are all miles away from Ogier.......even Paddon.

[N.O.T]

Don't want to sound too pro-Ogier, but I think we are a bit deluded to say this was a straight fight. OK - the last stage was done on equal terms, but lets not fool ourselves into think Ogier wouldn't have gone into that stage with anything less than a 30 second lead if the road conditions were equal for everyone.

They are all miles away from Ogier.......even Paddon.

captain obvious to the rescue !!!!!!!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Bahahaha

[Simmi]

For rally fans it's just exciting to see someone who in the future maybe, just maybe, could beat Ogier.

Still in the next couple of years all we can really hope for is that Ogier gets rattled and ends up beating himself. Latvala has done so little to get under the skin of his team-mate over 3 and a bit seasons. It's just nice to see someone now in Paddon who is still developing and has Ogier looking over his shoulder.

Paddon is Hyundai's future and he shouldn't be starting in a car with 20 on the side again in my opinion. Even on tarmac. The manufacturers championship is a non-event this year anyway. Start to build the team around Hayden.

[AL14]

captain obvious to the rescue !!!!!!!

Your trolling level is getting higher and higher lately.
Btw, captain obvious is welcome here sometimes. After sunday someone was already putting Paddon at the same level of Ogier and Hyundai at same level of Polo....

[Grundo Farb]

Paddons summary of the stage in a NZ newspaper.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/79299661/hayden-paddon-at-first-we-didnt-believe-our-time

[smokingjoe]

Don't want to sound too pro-Ogier, but I think we are a bit deluded to say this was a straight fight. OK - the last stage was done on equal terms, but lets not fool ourselves into think Ogier wouldn't have gone into that stage with anything less than a 30 second lead if the road conditions were equal for everyone.

They are all miles away from Ogier.......even Paddon.

and on tarmac , Ogier gets to put mud and rock on the racing line that others have to drive on.

swings and roundabouts.

[Doon]

captain obvious to the rescue !!!!!!!

Well NOT that obvious to some.........you said it!



Is this the first time Ogier lost a straight battle with another driver ??

The era where Loeb was treating him like a garbage dog is excluded of course.

[Nornbugger]

Well NOT that obvious to some.........you said it!


What NOT says is true regarding the last stage of the event, 16.32Km of twisty gravel road, conditions equal, no bullshit and Paddon blitzed Ogiers time. Forget the rest of the event, this stage alone was a huge deal, no one has done this to Ogier for a long time, in fact I cannot recall when Loeb ever did it to him?

[dimviii]

Paddon is Hyundai's future and he shouldn't be starting in a car with 20 on the side again in my opinion. Even on tarmac. The manufacturers championship is a non-event this year anyway.

+1

[dimviii]

, in fact I cannot recall when Loeb ever did it to him?

Monte some times...

[drive]

What NOT says is true regarding the last stage of the event, 16.32Km of twisty gravel road, conditions equal, no bullshit and Paddon blitzed Ogiers time. Forget the rest of the event, this stage alone was a huge deal, no one has done this to Ogier for a long time, in fact I cannot recall when Loeb ever did it to him?

dont you think that ogier used his tyres more on penultimate stage, and thats why he was not first on a power stage... its not regular to see ogier being so 'slow' on a PS.

[janvanvurpa]

Does anyone have the transcription of the press conference where Paddon and Ogier had the argument?
WHere are journalists where we need them?

Where they usually are: someplace jerking off and re-writing press releases they were handed into more hyperbole..:snore:

[mozesii]

In motorsport, there's no such thing like "equal road conditions". Its something that even a 5 year old kart racer has experienced. The pro and anti arguments of dust, sweeping, mud on tar, tyre wear etc. The only thing that will be fair to Ogier is if he gets to choose his start position everyday.
Then Bertelli would go first.

Someone explain how that would be fair to the drivers and more importantly the championship.

[Mk2 RS2000]

and on tarmac , Ogier gets to put mud and rock on the racing line that others have to drive on.

swings and roundabouts.

Exactly !!

[dimviii]

dont you think that ogier used his tyres more on penultimate stage, and thats why he was not first on a power stage... its not regular to see ogier being so 'slow' on a PS.

one reason is this,that Ogier had worst tyres,due to previous stage pushing hard

another reason could be that because at penaltumate stage Ogier gained 20 sec,thought that Paddon couldnt push more,just rated Paddons speed wrong,for the last stage.

another could be that Ogier had seen Paddons speed through 3 days,and didn t like to risk points for championships,because before some rallies he had lost points attacking at power stage while he was 1st(if i remember right)

imho last has the most possibilities,in conjuction with worn tyres.Dont forget that Ogiers good pace at power stages is due to he can afford to dont push at penaltumate stages, because almost always, he had big differences from 2nd,and his tyres were at better condition.Something that didnt happened at this rally.

[denkimi]

dont you think that ogier used his tyres more on penultimate stage, and thats why he was not first on a power stage... its not regular to see ogier being so 'slow' on a PS.
this.

i expected ogier to back off and go for 2nd place and win the powerstage. but it seems he tried to go for the win and destroyed his tyres while doing so.

[jbmarcus21]

HAKA welcomes back Hayden today in New Zealand airport => http://goo.gl/ABAoqO

[mozesii]

Until Portugal, some will give microscopic analysis of Ogier's loss. Others will simply accept that Paddon has gotten closer to his wrc champ target.

Most of us will not recognize that in 24Apr2016, rallying changed forever. Ole Martin Lundefaret finally proved that a scientific approach to driving means faster times.

Rallying will never be the same.

[stefanvv]

one reason is this,that Ogier had worst tyres,due to previous stage pushing hard

another reason could be that because at penaltumate stage Ogier gained 20 sec,thought that Paddon couldnt push more,just rated Paddons speed wrong,for the last stage.

another could be that Ogier had seen Paddons speed through 3 days,and didn t like to risk points for championships,because before some rallies he had lost points attacking at power stage while he was 1st(if i remember right)

imho last has the most possibilities,in conjuction with worn tyres.Dont forget that Ogiers good pace at power stages is due to he can afford to dont push at penaltumate stages, because almost always, he had big differences from 2nd,and his tyres were at better condition.Something that didnt happened at this rally.

If I remember right, the drivers were on soft tyres at Sunday stages. Ogier can easily destroy them for ~40kms. IMO slower stage time than Sordo's means his tyres were shot, no sense to make stunning times at 2 stages and blew it on the PS.

Why do we discuss this in Paddon's thread?

[N.O.T]

Until Portugal, some will give microscopic analysis of Ogier's loss. Others will simply accept that Paddon has gotten closer to his wrc champ target.

Most of us will not recognize that in 24Apr2016, rallying changed forever. Ole Martin Lundefaret finally proved that a scientific approach to driving means faster times.

Rallying will never be the same.

no.

[Rallyper]

Could we maybe be happy about what happened, and agree it was the most important thing for the WRC in many years happening in Argentina. Paddon will progress for sure, but in a way I can agree with Mozesii that from now rallying maybe changes a bit, becoming more computerised in preparations...

However Paddons win was truly important for the sport even if only lasts until next event in Portugal.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Paddon interview

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/other/victorious-hayden-paddon-honoured-early-morning-haka-nz-homecoming

[ArtooDetoo]

At just two and a bit seconds in arrears of Paddon - after starting the day ~30 seconds behind - it's not credible to assume that he wasn't trying on the power stage. That's not in Ogier's DNA. He pushed hard enough, he thought, to take the win. Why it wasn't sufficiently quick to beat Sordo isn't clear. But given the big win on the previous stage, then yes, it's possible his tyres were no longer up to it, or some other car-related malady restricted his performance.

But I have yet to see or hear anything that confirms such a scenario. Maybe Dani did a blinder himself? Maybe Seb made an error somewhere. Who knows? But Ogier himself credits Hayden's drive for his power stage win, not some outside agent that caused the Frenchman an issue. He thought he'd done enough and he was wrong.

That in itself tells me that Paddon has him rattled, and that the scale of the win was utterly unexpected. Without the road-sweeping excuse, the champ has had to face the fact that there's somebody out there who, head to head, can be more than his equal.

It's been a long time coming.

[Mintexmemory]

That in itself tells me that Paddon has him rattled, and that the scale of the win was utterly unexpected. Without the road-sweeping excuse, the champ has had to face the fact that there's somebody out there who, head to head, can be more than his equal.

It's been a long time coming.
This.... Ogier will also recognise that HP does not have the mental fragility of Latvala nor the gung ho style of Meeke (always on the edge). Controlled speed and mentally tough - I hope it gives us some great fights - at least Haydon can rely on his road sweeper for the next 3-4 rallies!!

[BleAivano]

I am sure that Ogier wanted to win but he also have to think more long time then just this rally. For Ogier, too much or too aggressive attack on the final stage
might cause him to have an off or hit a rock or something. So for Ogier settling for second might be a better idea then to try to get a few extra points.

Winning the wch title isn't about winning every rally and every stage, it is about being consistent and to know when it
is appropriate to back off. Ogier was about 30 points ahead of the nearest competitor in the standings before Argentina
but he is almost 40 points ahead after Argentina.No need to risk having an off when you have such a big lead so dropping
a few points is beneficial for the greater good.

[Simmi]

I am sure that Ogier wanted to win but he also have to think more long time then just this rally. For Ogier, too much or too aggressive attack on the final stage
might cause him to have an off or hit a rock or something. So for Ogier settling for second might be a better idea then to try to get a few extra points.

Winning the wch title isn't about winning every rally and every stage, it is about being consistent and to know when it
is appropriate to back off. Ogier was about 30 points ahead of the nearest competitor in the standings before Argentina
but he is almost 40 points ahead after Argentina.No need to risk having an off when you have such a big lead so dropping
a few points is beneficial for the greater good.

True but we have seen before that Ogier has had zero caution when it comes to the Power Stage. He's been leading the championship for almost three and a half years so it's not a new phenomenon for him. He hasn't had to adopt the conservative 'think of the championship' strategy you speak of at all. He only ever mentions it as mind games, eg. when he was fighting Loeb. There's no way he got to that close to Paddon heading into the final stage and thought, "nah I'll just finish second." He just isn't wired like that.

[Mintexmemory]

I said much the same at the end of Saturday - I think he then decided he could pull a huge time on the penultimate stage thinking Paddon didn't have the ability to respond after seeing his performance on the first Condor run. He miscalculated if that was the case ...but still 19 points

[AndyRAC]

With Ogier & Paddon running 1st & 2nd on the road for 2 days on the next round, that will show us were things really are.

[AL14]

We already know where we are. Paddon started sunday with a 30 seconds gap and finished with 12. Curb your enthusiasm, we are in front of a promes, not a reality. Still long way to go but yes, in the future he could be a real treat.

[stefanvv]

Paddon himself admits this is not his best he can achieve, so we can expect battles becoming closer in near future.

[dimviii]

We already know where we are. Paddon started sunday with a 30 seconds gap and finished with 12. Curb your enthusiasm, we are in front of a promes, not a reality. Still long way to go but yes, in the future he could be a real treat.

very well said.

[Zeakiwi]

HP has difficulty backing a trailer when off the long flight back to NZ from Buenos Aires. Also did through the cones.
http://www.newshub.co.nz/tvshows/story/storys-challenge-for-hayden-paddon-2016042718?ref=video#axzz470QSMolZ

[AL14]

very well said.
Thank you mate.

[Nornbugger]

We already know where we are. Paddon started sunday with a 30 seconds gap and finished with 12. Curb your enthusiasm, we are in front of a promes, not a reality. Still long way to go but yes, in the future he could be a real treat.


What is a promes? I've googled it but I'm sure you do not mean anything to do with a Dutch born footballer who plays for Spartak Moscow?

[N.O.T]

i think he ment promise

[AL14]

What is a promes? I've googled it but I'm sure you do not mean anything to do with a Dutch born footballer who plays for Spartak Moscow?
Lol, yes, I meant promise. Forgive my poor english ;)

[Mintexmemory]

Lol, yes, I meant promise. Forgive my poor english ;)

It's fine - Nornbugger doesn't speak english either!!! Also his Italian is terrible!

[Nornbugger]

It's fine - Nornbugger doesn't speak english either!!! Also his Italian is terrible!

Un grande hawaiano si prega

Non è un problema

Un grande hawaiano si prega :-)

[Mintexmemory]

Un grande hawaiano si prega

Non è un problema

Un grande hawaiano si prega :-)

Molte bene - amico mio

[AL14]

Un grande hawaiano si prega

Non è un problema

Un grande hawaiano si prega :-)

LOL, your italian is very "PROMESing" ;)

[ArtooDetoo]

We already know where we are. Paddon started sunday with a 30 seconds gap and finished with 12. Curb your enthusiasm, we are in front of a promes, not a reality. Still long way to go but yes, in the future he could be a real t[h]reat.

By all means be critical, but Paddon had a 14+ second gap, not 12 seconds. And given that Ogier has significantly more experience at the top level of the sport and in this event specifically, Paddon's win over the world champ can easily be seen as a lot more than "promes", despite the Frenchman's reducing the lead by 16 seconds on the final day.

You're right that Paddon has much capacity to improve in the future. But as the power stage of Rally Argentina proved, it's clear he doesn't have such a "long way to go" as you say... no?

Or did I miss something?

[Marcco]

Looking from Paddons point of view before last stage: He just lost 20 sec to Ogier on previous stage and got just couple seconds left... Seems like Ogier is pushing for the win... He had an argument with Ogier the day before... plenty of things to get stressed... and what happens? BOOM! He wins by 11sec.

What does that tell you about Paddon? Doesn't matter if he is not that experienced or fast enough yet... guy has guts... and he wants glory... and he achieved everything he wanted until now.

I think we are looking at future WRC champ (well if not, at least he'll make Ogier run for his money trying to become one).

[AL14]

By all means be critical, but Paddon had a 14+ second gap, not 12 seconds. And given that Ogier has significantly more experience at the top level of the sport and in this event specifically, Paddon's win over the world champ can easily be seen as a lot more than "promes", despite the Frenchman's reducing the lead by 16 seconds on the final day.

You're right that Paddon has much capacity to improve in the future. But as the power stage of Rally Argentina proved, it's clear he doesn't have such a "long way to go" as you say... no?

Or did I miss something?

Long or not there is still a way to go. whether it is long, short or a medium one we don't know, or it is just a matter of what are our standards of short and long ways. ;)

I just wanted to point out to all the enthusiastic result-oriented people that their enthusiasm maybe was just too much... But that together with them I share the opinion (and the hope) that Paddon could be a threat (in the future).
Luckily Paddon himself agree with me. :)

[Rallyper]

So enthusiastic over what Paddon achieved last Sunday is too much?? No, no, no it was absolutely a sensation knowing what Ogier done in the past for every PS.

For now we have to wait and see what´s coming next time in Portugal.

[Mariusz]

So enthusiastic over what Paddon achieved last Sunday is too much?? No, no, no it was absolutely a sensation knowing what Ogier done in the past for every PS.

For now we have to wait and see what´s coming next time in Portugal.
On the other hand, Paddon was really concentrating on El Condor during his rally preparations and he knew how to take every corner of the stage. I'm not saying that this wasn't a great performance by Hayden, because it was, but I think he caught Ogier by surprise with this kind of driving. And this idea isn't exactly new because if I remember it right McRae and Makinen were also doing it by preparing one stage to drive it almost by heart.
Anyway, I'm very happy that we may have another contender for a rally win. Before it was just Latvala if he hit a perfect mindset in the rally weekend, but the more fast drivers the better.

[Francis44]

Some of you are forgetting Paddon stalled the car 3 times because the engine was misfiring before the PS, Ogier is still the man to beat obviously.

[Munkvy]

Going to make for a great last day in the next few rounds if Ogier and Paddon are near each other on the podium going into the last day... Which is exactly what this sport needs.

[N.O.T]

Going to make for a great last day in the next few rounds if Ogier and Paddon are near each other on the podium going into the last day... Which is exactly what this sport needs.

Its good i have some leftovers of lassie in the fridge then...

[ArtooDetoo]

I just wanted to point out to all the enthusiastic result-oriented people that their enthusiasm maybe was just too much... But that together with them I share the opinion (and the hope) that Paddon could be a threat (in the future).

I guess the difference between us here is that your view is more cautious. The "enthusiastic result-oriented people", in their defence, have also been witness to Paddon's rapid and consistent improvement, even on his least-favoured surface, tarmac. That rate of improvement, should it continue, makes it easy to feel optimistic about his championship potential. I'm sure you'll agree that as yet there's no sign of a plateau in his performance overall, despite the occasional stumble.


Luckily Paddon himself agree with me. :)

That's a good point - Hayden is by character a modest guy, something that is quite unusual among high-achieving risk-takers like race drivers. So he always expresses himself in character, but one thing that he repeats regularly is that he isn't in the WRC to make up the numbers, and he believes that he will one day be World Champion. That's the total focus of his efforts.

The clear difference between you and me is that I believe he'll succeed, based on what he's done and continues to do, whereas you aren't convinced.

There's another conversation to be had about how Hayden has traveled compared to Mikkelsen and Meeke, and where they'll be relative to each other by the end of next season. :)

Thanks for the comments.

[Toyoda]

I guess the difference between us here is that your view is more cautious. The "enthusiastic result-oriented people", in their defence, have also been witness to Paddon's rapid and consistent improvement, even on his least-favoured surface, tarmac. That rate of improvement, should it continue, makes it easy to feel optimistic about his championship potential. I'm sure you'll agree that as yet there's no sign of a plateau in his performance overall, despite the occasional stumble.



That's a good point - Hayden is by character a modest guy, something that is quite unusual among high-achieving risk-takers like race drivers. So he always expresses himself in character, but one thing that he repeats regularly is that he isn't in the WRC to make up the numbers, and he believes that he will one day be World Champion. That's the total focus of his efforts.

The clear difference between you and me is that I believe he'll succeed, based on what he's done and continues to do, whereas you aren't convinced.

There's another conversation to be had about how Hayden has traveled compared to Mikkelsen and Meeke, and where they'll be relative to each other by the end of next season. :)

Thanks for the comments.

Interesting talking to John K at the Airport.
He said he had memorised the last stage in Argentina and told me a story about Paddon wanting to fix some notes in rally Otago, John suggested at lunch and Hayden was like, why not now in the car, he then rattled off the 90km morning stage notes and the changes he wanted. Seems like he has a great memory and work ethic,

[ArtooDetoo]

Interesting talking to John K at the Airport.
He said he had memorised the last stage in Argentina and told me a story about Paddon wanting to fix some notes in rally Otago, John suggested at lunch and Hayden was like, why not now in the car, he then rattled off the 90km morning stage notes and the changes he wanted. Seems like he has a great memory and work ethic,

Even Hayden's harshest critics wouldn't dream of questioning his work ethic. He's reminiscent of superstars from other sports who routinely credit their success not with some extraordinary ability (although there's certainly some element of that) but in the work they put in to ensure they're the best they can be when it's needed. :)

Good anecdote Toyoda. Wish I'd been able to make the airport greet. Still, there should be plenty of other welcomings in the future, I expect, even if not quite as momentous as the last one.

Cheers.

[janvanvurpa]

Even Hayden's harshest critics wouldn't dream of questioning his work ethic. He's reminiscent of superstars from other sports who routinely credit their success not with some extraordinary ability (although there's certainly some element of that) but in the work they put in to ensure they're the best they can be when it's needed. :)

Good anecdote Toyoda. Wish I'd been able to make the airport greet. Still, there should be plenty of other welcomings in the future, I expect, even if not quite as momentous as the last one.

Cheers.
Hang on. 'arshest critics? What's all this then? who th' fawk could be a harsh critic of Paddon? He's too young to have done anything to be critical about....Something kept under wraps down there?

And just a little note.....ANY honest professional in any endeavor sporting, business, academic, any---if they are honest----will tell you that their results are "probably a result of the thousands of hours put into it".....and I'm quoting myself from 25-27 years ago in a different sport...
That's why while its literally thousands of hours, it better be some fun to sustain the spirit...

And it does look like Paddon's having some fun.

(Now I'm holding my thumbs for the next Dubya Arsey hoping he has the always needed little dose of good luck so he can barrow-- in reverse--- the epic lines from the historic film and "taunt Ogier a second time"
God what I'd give to see Paddon delivering to Ogier something like this.
In reverse mind you: Ogier= Arthur... Paddon = Guard
Scene MTC before service


ARTHUR: Halt! Hello! Hello!
GUARD: 'Allo! Who is zis?
ARTHUR: It is King Arthur, and these are my Knights of the Round Table. Who's castle is this? (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/whocastle.wav)
GUARD: This is the castle of my master, Guy de Loimbard! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/whocastle.wav)
ARTHUR: Go and tell your master that we have been charged by God with a sacred quest. (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/sacquest.wav)If he will give us food and shelter for the night he can join us in our quest for the Holy Grail.
GUARD: Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen. Uh, he's already got one, you see?
ARTHUR: What?
GALAHAD: He says they've already got one! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/gotone.wav)
ARTHUR: Are you sure he's got one? (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/gotone.wav)
GUARD: Oh, yes, it's very nice-a (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/gotone.wav)(I told him we already got one)
ARTHUR: Well, um, can we come up and have a look?
GUARD: Of course not! You are English types-a!
ARTHUR: Well, what are you then?
GUARD: I'm French! Why do think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/french.wav)
GALAHAD: What are you doing in England? (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/myob.wav)
GUARD: Mind your own business! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/myob.wav)
ARTHUR: If you will not show us the Grail, we shall take your castle by force!
GUARD: You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/pigdog.wav)---Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/boil.wav). I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur-king, you and all your silly English knnnniggets. Thppppt! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/kniggits.wav)
GALAHAD: What a strange person. (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/strprson.wav)
ARTHUR: Now look here, my good man!
GUARD: I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/nomore.wav)...... I fart in your general direction! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/fart.wav). Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/hamster.wav)
GALAHAD: Is there someone else up there we could talk to?
GUARD: No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time-a! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/taunt.wav)
ARTHUR: Now, this is your last chance. I've been more than reasonable.
GUARD: Fetche lavache! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/lavache.wav)
GUARD: Quoi? (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/lavache.wav)
GUARD: Fetche lavache! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/lavache.wav)
[moo!] (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/lavache.wav)
ARTHUR: If you do not agree to my commands, then I shall-- [twang] [moooooooooooooooooooooooooo]Jesus Christ! Right! Charge!
ALL: Charge!
[Knights charge]
GUARD: Ah, this one is for your mother! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/thisone.wav)
[twang]
ALL: Run away! (http://www.montypython.net/sounds/hg/runaway.wav)
GUARD: Thpppt!

You can click on the lines for the full sound effect---in reverse, eh?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Here is another:

:D :D :D

[AL14]

I guess the difference between us here is that your view is more cautious. The "enthusiastic result-oriented people", in their defence, have also been witness to Paddon's rapid and consistent improvement, even on his least-favoured surface, tarmac. That rate of improvement, should it continue, makes it easy to feel optimistic about his championship potential. I'm sure you'll agree that as yet there's no sign of a plateau in his performance overall, despite the occasional stumble.



That's a good point - Hayden is by character a modest guy, something that is quite unusual among high-achieving risk-takers like race drivers. So he always expresses himself in character, but one thing that he repeats regularly is that he isn't in the WRC to make up the numbers, and he believes that he will one day be World Champion. That's the total focus of his efforts.

The clear difference between you and me is that I believe he'll succeed, based on what he's done and continues to do, whereas you aren't convinced.

There's another conversation to be had about how Hayden has traveled compared to Mikkelsen and Meeke, and where they'll be relative to each other by the end of next season. :)

Thanks for the comments.
I never said I did not believe in Paddon. I do and not since sunday but one year at least. Do not confuse my "keep calm, Paddon is not YET close to Ogier" with "he will never win". I am a fan of Paddon....

[dimviii]

we were talking at Poland thread about Paddons bad results at mickey mouse stages.

his answer about at his twitter
--------------------------------------
‏@RhysJKerr

@HaydenPaddon gr8 result mate! Re the micky mouse stages, what is the specific challenge on these? #askpaddon


Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Yes a big weak area that we are working on. Changeable grip levels and less room for error. As much mental challenge

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon Retweet Enea Pasquali

It's not our decision sorry. The promoters decides where the camera goes. Yes TN camera pos was good ����

[AL14]

We had no doubt Hayden

[stefanvv]

TN camera pos was good ����

What is TN camera pos?

[Oliverk]

What is TN camera pos?
thierry neuville's camera position.

[stefanvv]

thierry neuville's camera position.

Thanks, didn't know that, I'll check it. Is it dangerous?

[Franky]

Thanks, didn't know that, I'll check it. Is it dangerous?

Yes, WRC Promoter might hunt you down for watching it.

[stefanvv]

Really? So I guess I should cancel my subscription then?
What I meant though - "Is it dangerous for Neuville/Gilsoul"?

[Hartusvuori]

In-depth interviw with our forum member, Lundefaret, on Paddon and Lundefaret's ideas of a perfect driving technique:

English version:
https://rallirinki.net/2016/07/06/credits-to-ole-from-norway-man-who-wants-to-make-paddon-a-world-champion/

Finnish version:
https://rallirinki.net/2016/07/06/ole-from-norway-vauhtivalmentaja-aikoo-tehda-paddonista-mestarin/

Thanks, Ole, for taking the time to do this interview!

[nafpaktos]

This guru has a lot to offer to the world of rallying.Thanks to him we will see unbelievable passages in the future.Thanks Lunda,rallying needs you!!!

[Lundefaret]

This guru has a lot to offer to the world of rallying.Thanks to him we will see unbelievable passages in the future.Thanks Lunda,rallying needs you!!!

Hehe, guru, maybe I will put that on my business card - just kidding.
But I am on a mission to end "The Era of the Sebs", and currently Ive got a buddy in war from NZ who has no less intent than me to do the same :)

[janvanvurpa]

In-depth interviw with our forum member, Lundefaret, on Paddon and Lundefaret's ideas of a perfect driving technique:

English version:
https://rallirinki.net/2016/07/06/credits-to-ole-from-norway-man-who-wants-to-make-paddon-a-world-champion/

Finnish version:
https://rallirinki.net/2016/07/06/ole-from-norway-vauhtivalmentaja-aikoo-tehda-paddonista-mestarin/

Thanks, Ole, for taking the time to do this interview!

Much thanks for the Engrish version...Its so good I posted the whole thing over on America's No1 foruumit where I'm suspecting people will want to debate the idea and tell us why its all wrong.

[danon]

Hehe, guru, maybe I will put that on my business card - just kidding.
But I am on a mission to end "The Era of the Sebs", and currently Ive got a buddy in war from NZ who has no less intent than me to do the same :)

This war stuff overcooked the coach mangiare a bit. The Seb era will end when Ogier quits like Loeb did.

watch the pic while listening to the music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAYhNHhxN0A
http://s31.postimg.org/4qibrt8rf/mission_impossible.jpg

[N.O.T]

Hehe, guru, maybe I will put that on my business card - just kidding.
But I am on a mission to end "The Era of the Sebs"

Hope you have some anti depressants nearby then...

[Lundefaret]

This war stuff overcooked the coach mangiare a bit. The Seb era will end when Ogier quits like Loeb did.

watch the pic while listening to the music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAYhNHhxN0A
http://s31.postimg.org/4qibrt8rf/mission_impossible.jpg

No one said it would be easy.

But I agree with you. End the winning streak would be more correct.
And "buddy in war" is a Norwegian expression that probably translates badly ;)

[dimviii]

@HaydenPaddon Did you and Thierry have much friendly banter between stages during your close fight. was great to watch #askpaddon

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Just as normal - it was fun watching the close times but we didn't talk about it so much

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Ο χρήστης Hayden Paddon έκανε Retweet johnny jordan

Speaking with Seb another idea with merit is Champ order D1, REVERSE champ order D2, reverse class D3 (for TV) #fair

[janvanvurpa]

And "buddy in war" is a Norwegian expression that probably translates badly ;)


Okej vad är den original norsk fras?

(just så folk ska sluta klaga)

[denkimi]

@HaydenPaddon Did you and Thierry have much friendly banter between stages during your close fight. was great to watch #askpaddon

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Just as normal - it was fun watching the close times but we didn't talk about it so much

i don't think they really like each other. :p

[Mk2 RS2000]

i don't think they really like each other. :p

I think you will find that they get along better than Nico & Lewis. Remember that the ideal team mate in motorsport is one who is about 1.5 seconds per km slower than you are.

[N.O.T]

get along better than Nico & Lewis.

Yes but women rarely form good relationships with eachother so the example you used is not valid.

Here we talk about rally drivers.

[GravelBen]

Congratulations NOT, for once I like one of your posts! :eek:

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

This was my office today - 120 laps in a GT car developing my Tarmac driving with Nicholas Bernadi #goodday #fast



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Co3rLjZWEAEw04c.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

Hayden today:

“ I will make one single post here about the current situation and our feelings, as for too long we have said nothing and tried to do the right thing. Firstly, happy for Craig and I wish him all the best for the rally.

I will point out all the talk that we turned down the offer of a 1 Rally drive with Hyundai is not correct and was blown out of proportion from media speculation. Originally there was talk of this when we first got news of no seat for 2019 last December, and at the time emotion was raw after being left high and dry. However nothing was formally discussed. Since February we have actively been in communication to be involved with the team in any role - testing, 1 off rallies (Finland).....anything. My passion is still very high for WRC and I feel I’m at my prime at present. I know the car well and was prepared to jump straight in and do a good job for the team.

So naturally you can understand we are very upset. I have given my life to this brand in everything I do. Our NZ business, our NZ Hyundai partnership, purchase of a TCR car, everything we possibly could do! And yet we were not even spoken to about this event despite us offering our services several times. Since we did our last rally in Australia, we have had very little communication from them - no acknowledgment of our time with them, no formal thank you, no heads up on the future.

I will say through all this, how much we appreciate the unconditional support from Hyundai NZ and how much they have my back. They fully support all our comments. Many people say we need to cut our ties – well, think of it this way, do you cut your ties for a couple of years in the WRC vs a potential lifetime partnership in this part of the world? It’s never as straightforward as most people think.

Big thanks to all your support. Means a lot. Again I stress this is nothing against Craig, I have nothing but respect for him and it’s only natural you take what opportunities you can.”

[nafpaktos]

Autosport wrote that he turned down the one off rally?

[the sniper]

Autosport wrote that he turned down the one off rally?

He says that isn't correct, but then seems to admit there was talk of that... Seems like he turned it down when "emotion was raw", "however nothing was formally discussed".


I will point out all the talk that we turned down the offer of a 1 Rally drive with Hyundai is not correct and was blown out of proportion from media speculation. Originally there was talk of this when we first got news of no seat for 2019 last December, and at the time emotion was raw after being left high and dry. However nothing was formally discussed. Since February we have actively been in communication”

[racerx1979]

As I said in the other thread many of the WRC folks can care less about his TCR and allegiance to Hyundai NZ... I feel sorry for Hayden, but it seems like he needs to move on from Hyundai at this point

[GravelBen]

He says that isn't correct, but then seems to admit there was talk of that... Seems like he turned it down when "emotion was raw", "however nothing was formally discussed".

I took those comments to mean there was unofficial discussion but when it came to making it official the team didn't follow through on what they had said informally.

[deephouse]

As I said in the other thread many of the WRC folks can care less about his TCR and allegiance to Hyundai NZ... I feel sorry for Hayden, but it seems like he needs to move on from Hyundai at this point

He is building a lifetime career with Hyundai NZ. No WRC season or few outings with other manu is worth of risking that. He will never be payed like crying baby does so that's why he is working hard to maintin realtionship with them. He admitted that he will not leave them.

[denkimi]

He is building a lifetime career with Hyundai NZ. No WRC season or few outings with other manu is worth of risking that. He will never be payed like crying baby does so that's why he is working hard to maintin realtionship with them. He admitted that he will not leave them.
I'm not familiar with the rallying scene in NZ, but i don't see how he could build any kind of career with anyone by winning a few local rally's against nobody.

He was of marketing value to hyundai NZ because he was a wrc driver. But such value quickly fades away. In a few years he will have no more value to them, and that will be the end.

[AnttiL]

I'm not familiar with the rallying scene in NZ, but i don't see how he could build any kind of career with anyone by winning a few local rally's against nobody..
It's not about his personal driving, it's about his own team and other businesses in NZ.

[sollitt]

I'm not familiar with the rallying scene in NZ, but i don't see how he could build any kind of career with anyone by winning a few local rally's against nobody.

He was of marketing value to hyundai NZ because he was a wrc driver. But such value quickly fades away. In a few years he will have no more value to them, and that will be the end.
First comment I agree with. Depth of rallying in NZ right now is abysmal.

The latter comment displays a lack of knowledge.
With only a few spots up for grabs in WRC, many top rally drivers make a comfortable living driving elsewhere.
Paddon himself leaves NZ for programme of offshore rallies and rally cross in which, presumably, he's being well remunerated.

[deephouse]

I think he have also academy for young drivers and is tutoring them, is partner for variety brands. He just drive to stay in form and he is too young to retire from driving. I think he could leave business to other for a few more years and start competing at WRC2 or at least ERC. Or maybe try in rallycross or even WTCR.

[leighton323]

First comment I agree with. Depth of rallying in NZ right now is abysmal.

I disagree and am disappointed in your comments Mr Sollitt

[tommeke_B]

Difficult situation for Paddon, of course. Maybe being loyal to a brand is, in this case, setting more limits to himself, than it's giving opportunities. For me, and I think most people on this forum, the only place he belongs is in WRC. And for that it seems like he has to break the link with Hyundai at this point.

[racerx1979]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/113788682/motorsport-hayden-paddon-hits-out-at-hyundai-after-world-rally-championship-return-snub

[Andre Oliveira]

Unfortunately i can’t see Hayden WRC future anymore.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I agree. He has burnt his bridges and if he wont leave NZ to try another team due to his business there, then thats it. His sole prioritiy isnt a WRC seat (unlike Breen).

[wrc2017]

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/1143455107649921024?s=19

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/1143455107649921024?s=19

Welcome to yesterday's discussions

[AL14]

Unfortunately i can’t see Hayden WRC future anymore.

I'm afraid to agree with you.
Maybe maybe M-Sport could give him a seat somehow but I guess the salary will not be like Hyundai's one and most probably he would not have one.

[EstWRC]

I'm afraid to agree with you.


unfortunately im afraid of the same. Which is a big shame.

Cant he do his "future securing" with another manufacturer than Hyundai or later after the career?

His loyalty to the team hasnt done anything good for him so far and IMO they have treated him like shit. This may sound arrogant from me, but as long as he says he doesnt cut the ties with them he shouldnt complain on social media about not getting drives, because Hyundai (or someone there) doesnt like him and the others cant hire him.

[dimviii]

seems that Paddon is paying his contrary with Neuville years back.
There are a lot of things we dont know from these days.

[Norm75]

I'm pleased for Breen, but this smells like a plate of salmon, that's been left out in direct sunlight for a week.

Can't help picturing the scene, when Haydon completed rally Australia 2nd overall, the cameras diverted to the Hyundai squads office, and not one clap, not a smile on anyone's face, just the look of a team thinking why did he just do that, as if he had just binned it from 1st place on the last corner of the last stage of the rally.

Needs to sack Hyundai and try and get a drive at m sport IMO.
Why waste time trying to secure a future with a manufacturer that is threatening to pull out if the don't win a championship anyway.

[EstWRC]

I'm pleased for Breen, but this smells like a plate of salmon, that's been left out in direct sunlight for a week.

Can't help picturing the scene, when Haydon completed rally Australia 2nd overall, the cameras diverted to the Hyundai squads office, and not one clap, not a smile on anyone's face, just the look of a team thinking why did he just do that, as if he had just binned it from 1st place on the last corner of the last stage of the rally.

Needs to sack Hyundai and try and get a drive at m sport IMO.
Why waste time trying to secure a future with a manufacturer that is threatening to pull out if the don't win a championship anyway.

exactly, cant understand it either.

[kirungi okwogera]

I can understand being the rare not-rich WRC driver and having a concern for your ongoing career post-competition, but would it really be so bad for Hyundai NZ if he drove another car in an international competition that doesn't even visit NZ anymore? His local commitments are with a local company branch. Unless Hyundai NZ are saying "everything's kaput if you drive anybody else's car" I guess.

Even then, New Zealand does not have a huge selection of international level sportspeople for local companies to sponsor, especially in motorsport. It doesn't seem like career suicide to sever ties if it means building your international success (thus local sponsor-ability) further.

I just remember Greg Murphy, a locally (Aus-NZ) known V8 Supercars champion, being on TV constantly as THE New Zealand motorsport guy, selling pies with his name on it, etc. And he is (in my view) less accomplished than a World Championship event winner of any stripe.

[AndyRAC]

What about Scott Dixon, Earl Bamber & Brendon Hartley? How well are they known in NZ?

[GravelBen]

What about Scott Dixon, Earl Bamber & Brendon Hartley? How well are they known in NZ?

Among the wider public I'd say Dixon is very well known, Hartley moderately known (due to F1 getting more media coverage), Bamber (along with others who have done well in GT etc) not very well known at all. The V8 supertaxi drivers are better recognised here - Van Gisbergen, McLaughlin, Coulthard currently as well as Murphy etc in their day. Thats probably just a reflection of the popularity of the series, I think far more people in NZ would watch V8 racing than F1, GT or WRC.

Paddon is probably as well known as any of them now though I think, and local rallying is popular with 100+ car entries to some events and a lot of spectators out on the stages.

[AnttiL]

Cant he do his "future securing" with another manufacturer than Hyundai or later after the career?

Would mean quitting his current business

[Norm75]

Would mean quitting his current business

Would it mean quitting it, or switching to a different manufacturer? I don't really know anything about his business venture, but surely Ford and Toyota at least have as much general presence in NZ as Hyundai.

What happens if Hyundai Motorsport pull the plug at some point, does that not have any impact on Hayden's future company plans? Genuine question as I say I'm not up to speed on his operation.

[denkimi]

Would mean quitting his current business
Why would that be?
Duval was and is a toyota dealer and drove citroen and ford.
Loeb is hyundai driver and rents peugeot and vw.

Unless hyundai NZ says no and pays him a lot for it, there is not a single reason why he shouldn't try a different team.

[tr4m]

It's like "M-Sport should break up with Ford" all over again.

[Norm75]

It's like "M-Sport should break up with Ford" all over again.

Only it isn't, not really. We are talking about a guy that has the speed and ability to be one of the top drivers in the wrc, that is a rally winner and is still at a young enough age, that should be putting himself in the shop window, not a company that has ties with several different manufacturers in different Motorsport disciplines. But I get your sentiment.

[GravelBen]

Would it mean quitting it, or switching to a different manufacturer? I don't really know anything about his business venture, but surely Ford and Toyota at least have as much general presence in NZ as Hyundai.

What happens if Hyundai Motorsport pull the plug at some point, does that not have any impact on Hayden's future company plans? Genuine question as I say I'm not up to speed on his operation.


I think the business (Paddon Rallysport) would be strong enough to carry on without Hyundai in future, but they do work closely together and Hyundai NZ have been very loyal and committed long-term supporters of Hayden. As far as I'm aware there has never really been any Hyundai involvement in NZ motorsport without Paddon, he has been the driving force behind it and together they have done a lot for NZ rallying.

There are already other established businesses building/maintaining/preparing Ford, Subaru, Mitsi etc for rallying so it wouldn't be as simple as 'just switching to another manufacturer' unless it is one that doesn't already have a partnership like that. Toyota could be an option if they ever decide to take local rallying seriously, but they only really seem to focus on circuit racing in NZ.

Personally I'd like it if Hyundai NZ gave him a public 'all clear' to drive for another team in WRC, but I can understand the conflict of interest between brands etc that corporate types on both sides will worry about.

[AnttiL]

Duval was and is a toyota dealer and drove citroen and ford.
Loeb is hyundai driver and rents peugeot and vw.
I don't know more about these cases, but at least Toyota didn't have a WRC team during Duval's career, and same goes for Peugeot and VW right now. It would be different if a manufacturer is letting their representative compete against them

[Allez Andruet]

For sure Paddon has a clause in his contract with Hyundai NZ (that most likely has been overseen by Hyundai HQ) which prevents him from competing against the brand. So it's either Hyundai or Hyundai, if Paddon wants to compete in the WRC AND to continue with his business.

[Toyoda]

For sure Paddon has a clause in his contract with Hyundai NZ (that most likely has been overseen by Hyundai HQ) which prevents him from competing against the brand. So it's either Hyundai or Hyundai, if Paddon wants to compete in the WRC AND to continue with his business.

In a way putting Breen on the books locks down another driver potentially for next year and takes him off the market for other manufacturers potentially, seems like Hyundai is just buying out drivers,

[Grutz]

I don't understand why Hayden couldn't at least knock on Makkinen's door and have a discussion and the same with Budar or Malcolm. Even just a test drive doesn't mean he has to sign anything and break his contract with Hyundai NZ. Just see whats available because putting all his eggs in 1 basket might actually mean he misses out on his dreams! Just see whats on the other side of the fence. He might actually find some sweet smelling Roses! Who knows???

[Tarmop]

In a way putting Breen on the books locks down another driver potentially for next year and takes him off the market for other manufacturers potentially, seems like Hyundai is just buying out drivers,

Maybe, but not necessarily. Could be a freelancer like Mikkelsen, who also did some one-offs in the C3 before heading to Hyundai.

[mknight]

I don't understand why Hayden couldn't at least knock on Makkinen's door and have a discussion and the same with Budar or Malcolm. Even just a test drive doesn't mean he has to sign anything and break his contract with Hyundai NZ. Just see whats available because putting all his eggs in 1 basket might actually mean he misses out on his dreams! Just see whats on the other side of the fence. He might actually find some sweet smelling Roses! Who knows???

After the end of last year he pretty much made a choice out of the two options:

a) Stay in NZ and care about his business and other activities and hope for Hyundai WRC drive

b) Move to Europe and do different rallies on multiple surfaces to both improve tarmac skills and stay visible. All WRC teams are based in Europe and are "forced" by the rules to test in Europe + the competition level across multiple championships is quite high.

Paddon picked a). Which is much less risky for the future but likely also more enjoyable and makes sure he has something to do and decent income.
b) would have been much more risky and could backfire completely, but it also had a chance for better reward.

Breen picked b) and has driven like 4 different cars in multiple championships. But for him it was by far much easier choice since he lives in Europe and his girlfriend (still afaik) is from Italy. So driving in Ireland and Italy is both like driving "at home". So it was an obvious and easy choice for him, but one that also gives him much higher chances than Paddon in the long run.

[Barreis]

Breen's way is better, competing all the time in Europe and in lots of media

[Mk2 RS2000]

Even then, New Zealand does not have a huge selection of international level sportspeople for local companies to sponsor, .

Could I respectively request that you do your homework, per capita NZ out performs every other country in the world sports wise.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Breen's b) is a little different to Paddon's b). It didn't involve moving to a different hemisphere, far from family, friends, culture and his own business!

Breen picked b) and has driven like 4 different cars in multiple championships. But for him it was by far much easier choice since he lives in Europe and his girlfriend (still afaik) is from Italy. So driving in Ireland and Italy is both like driving "at home". So it was an obvious and easy choice for him, but one that also gives him much higher chances than Paddon in the long run.[/QUOTE]

[racerx1979]

The WRC does not care how far one lives or where his girlfriend currently resides. He chose to stay in NZ which means he's not on anyone's radar sadly. Winning events in NZ by eleventeen minutes means nothing to WRC teams... Plenty of examples like Hayden around the world..

[AnttiL]

I imagine Breen has it easier to find sponsors in Europe compared to Paddon - especially in Ireland.

[denkimi]

I imagine Breen has it easier to find sponsors in Europe compared to Paddon - especially in Ireland.
I don't know about that. The competition is also a lot bigger in europe.

[deephouse]

Didn't Paddon used to live in Italy awile ago? Maybe try out in Italy again.

[TRW]

Didn't Paddon used to live in Italy awile ago? Maybe try out in Italy again.

I think it's getting bit funny. Maybe he should try living in Finland, Rovampera is from Finland...Oh wait maybe Japan, Takamoto is getting close to works drive.

IMO Hayden is right now closest to works team that driver can be, but he is just backstabbed big time.

[AL14]

Didn't Paddon used to live in Italy awile ago? Maybe try out in Italy again.

I didn't live in Italy. He went to Italy for training and had a sardinian gf for a while.

[kirungi okwogera]

Could I respectively request that you do your homework, per capita NZ out performs every other country in the world sports wise.

This isn't meant as disrespect, sorry if it came off that way. I lived in NZ for six years and consider it my second home country. During that time I worked almost exclusively in sports media.

You are right, per capita, NZ outperforms pretty much everybody; and I am right, in terms of sheer numbers, especially when you limit it to sports that are globally watched (so, excluding rugby, league, cricket, netball and the like), NZ does not have a load of global-level sports personalities for a sponsor to choose from. Olympians, yes, but not a whole lot else.

E.g. per capita, Valerie Adams' family has an unreal number of Olympic medals, but there's still only one of her.

[krissucool]

Is, is WRC really a globally watched sport?

Well obviously there are some people from different countries watching it but Rallying is only a relevant sport in 2 countries I would think. Estonia and Finland.

[kirungi okwogera]

Is, is WRC really a globally watched sport?

Well obviously there are some people from different countries watching it but Rallying is only a relevant sport in 2 countries I would think. Estonia and Finland.

The MOST watched sport, no; no motorsport is that except yeah maybe Estonia and Finland with rally. But it's a global competition with a large audience across the world. Not as big as F1, nor football, but still big, and not limited to a small number of countries.

[sollitt]

Could I respectively request that you do your homework, per capita NZ out performs every other country in the world sports wise.
Could I respectfully suggest Carl that this claim is NZ media bullshit with no basis whatsoever. I am embarrassed for you.
Yes, NZ is good at sport. May even punch above their weight. But anything more is nonsense.

[AL14]

I read about a possible m-sport drive for Paddon in Finland but it is an article without sources (he just talk about finnish tabloid... but doesn't link to anything).
I guess it's almost clickbait, let's see..

[Mk2 RS2000]

With the support of great people

https://www.hyundai.co.nz/paddon-ready-for-wrc-return-in-finland?fbclid=IwAR2RULWf_wo7lyF6exxAgEGWzB6KgRZJu 6uhQI6Gptk7INCJkfZefxxQxKo

[mknight]

With the support of great people

https://www.hyundai.co.nz/paddon-ready-for-wrc-return-in-finland?fbclid=IwAR2RULWf_wo7lyF6exxAgEGWzB6KgRZJu 6uhQI6Gptk7INCJkfZefxxQxKo

Wonder what Hyundai Korea thinks about that....

---------------

Anyway I will repost what I wrote in the NRF thread, cause it will likely get lost there:

I actually think Paddon can fight for podium as the Fiesta has showed it is fast on fast stages this year and Paddon was fast in Finland previously.

However the big question is what next?

Is he doing this just cause he is pissed off at Hyundai and does not have any money/plan for other rallies just hoping it will sort itself (aka. Atkinson 2009)? If he only does Finland then even a podium won't be enough to secure him a seat next year.

EDIT: Might be that while he does not have a plan for rest of the year he sees that if he doesn't show up in Finland and prove he can be fast (which is very likely) he will definitely drop out as important deals are likey made in next month or two. He can't expect to do well in Germany and Turkey in mid-september is too late and most drivers could be signed by then. Looking at it that way it does make good sense to start in Finland even without a plan.

[Mk2 RS2000]

[QUOTE=mknight;1222822]Wonder what Hyundai Korea thinks about that....
QUOTE]

Think this part of Andy Sinclair's statement makes it very clear what the stance of Hyundai NZ is.

Sinclair adds: “Hayden is a Hyundai NZ driver and ambassador, and most importantly, he is representing New Zealand, which means more to us than what model of car he is driving. As a 100 per cent Kiwi-owned company, our decision to support a New Zealand sportsperson of Hayden’s calibre is easy. Hayden is, and will continue to be, a fine ambassador for the Hyundai brand in New Zealand. He’s a New Zealander competing on a global scale with international fame, yet has
remained humble, grounded and rooted to his home country

[rhm]

If he sticks on the podium that'd be a huge result, top 5 would be a solid finish after a lengthy break from the WRC.

If he beats Breen he has the peace of mind that he should have been the driver in the seat (based on pace). We have no idea of the business decision behind Hyundai choosing Breen (money, trial for 2020 etc.) and glad to see both drivers back in cars for Finland. Should be a great event.

[Zeakiwi2]

Makes total marketing sense for Hyundai to get Breen on board. Hyundai is a significant brand in Ireland. Hyundai Tucson has been a market leader in Ireland.

With the electric power cable to be laid between France and Ireland - it will be straight forward for Ireland to power an electric vehicle fleet on a 'not too big' island. Hyundai has a number of additional electric vehicles planned to go with the full electric vehicles that they already sell. (Something Paddon already plans for, (the paddon team hyundai i30 tcr race car purchase, and paddon could possibly have a stronger electric vehicle future with Hyundai NZ than he might have with another brand)
Ireland intends to invest in renewable type power - wind turbines that might send surplus power to France and Ireland get nuclear power when the winds are not blowing enough.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/04/electric-car-sales-in-ireland-up-541-in-2019/ (Hyundai Kona etc)

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/32-hyundai-tucson-a-runaway-sales-success-on-the-irish-market-1.3719699 (Hyundai Tucson - ireland)

[Rallyper]

Now Paddon is hot on the market again. Doing good job in Finland will do him even better.

[Marcco]

Happy for Paddon. I wish him to beat Hyundai in Finland in a straight fight just for karma reasons...

[mknight]

Now Paddon is hot on the market again. Doing good job in Finland will do him even better.

I think you totally misread this.

This deal seems to be a "needed" move from Paddon to at least be considered by other teams for next year.

From the press releases and sponsors it looks like a "paid" drive by him and his sponsors. As I wrote just a few posts above it actually is a good idea cause deals are surely starting to take form by now and he can't wait until Turkey to show himself again.

Can't see that he got "hot on the market" after being ignored by Hyundai...just as he has been for last 7 months.

[AL14]

Happy for him. I thought that that rumor wasn't much reliable but it turned out it was.
I don't know how fast he will be with a client Fiesta and after so many months without driving any WRC car but I will be rooting for him that weekend.

[racerx1979]

Yes unfortunately he will have to learn a new car, but he could get lucky and the car can be a good fit for him. Kind of like Andreas going well with the C3 WRC.

[kirungi okwogera]

I choose to believe that Hayden and his NZ sponsors read my posts about his marketability to sponsors if he does world championship events even if not in a Hyundai car, and were convinced by my cogent arguments

[AL14]

I choose to believe that Hayden and his NZ sponsors read my posts about his marketability to sponsors if he does world championship events even if not in a Hyundai car, and were convinced by my cogent arguments

He owes you

[itix]

Yes unfortunately he will have to learn a new car, but he could get lucky and the car can be a good fit for him. Kind of like Andreas going well with the C3 WRC.Andreas goes well only under huge pressure that threaten his career it seems.

All of his wins and competitive podium places except for sweden have come when he's either been under threat to be booted out (aus 16, arg 19 after having been benched in Corse) or when he's looking for a new drive (the C3 tarmac outings and Hyundai trials).

Remember, Poland in the C3 he did pretty bad in.

I'm not sure if it's coincidence or a thing but a steady secure Andreas seem to be a slow Andreas.

[mknight]

Andreas goes well only under huge pressure that threaten his career it seems.

All of his wins and competitive podium places except for sweden have come when he's either been under threat to be booted out (aus 16, arg 19 after having been benched in Corse) or when he's looking for a new drive (the C3 tarmac outings and Hyundai trials).

Remember, Poland in the C3 he did pretty bad in.

I'm not sure if it's coincidence or a thing but a steady secure Andreas seem to be a slow Andreas.

1) This is Paddon thread
2) While sometimes Mikkelsen indeed does well under pressure 2 of his 3 wins came without any pressure.

[itix]

1) This is Paddon thread
2) While sometimes Mikkelsen indeed does well under pressure 2 of his 3 wins came without any pressure.True, that was me going off topic. My bad.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Andreas goes well only under huge pressure that threaten his career it seems.

All of his wins and competitive podium places except for sweden have come when he's either been under threat to be booted out... .

Another way to look at it is that Andreas does well on rallies where his car is strongest car. .

Up until Rally Sardegna 2019 Andreas Mikkelsen has 25 podiums. On 13 of those Podiums he has been part of a team P1-P2 or a team P1-P2-P3
Ponder this for a moment.
I very much doubt we would find anyone else with over 1/2 their podiums looking like this. I did have a look at Dani Sordo as a most likely to be similar. Dani has 45 podiums of which 17 were P1-P2 or P1-P2-P3 so just over 1/3

[Barreis]

where is that guy called nose ends first who worked with Paddon and was here a few years ago??

[AL14]

where is that guy called nose ends first who worked with Paddon and was here a few years ago??

Lundefaret... I don't know, I was in contact with him, we still are even friends on FB but I don't have had any more contact with him.
I loved his endless posts and his Nose End First "obsession" even if I didn't always agree.

[kiil]

Happy for him. I thought that that rumor wasn't much reliable but it turned out it was.
I don't know how fast he will be with a client Fiesta and after so many months without driving any WRC car but I will be rooting for him that weekend.

I'm not sure how much a client Fiesta differs from a works Fiesta. Msport has very few cars, almost all have been used in 2019 by works entries. Also i would assume Msport sees potential in Paddons entry, so i'm sure he will get as good spec as possible.

[AnttiL]

I'm not sure how much a client Fiesta differs from a works Fiesta. Msport has very few cars, almost all have been used in 2019 by works entries. Also i would assume Msport sees potential in Paddons entry, so i'm sure he will get as good spec as possible.

He's also running for manufacturer points. In M-Sport there's a fine line between a "client" car and a "works" car.

[mknight]

Another way to look at it is that Andreas does well on rallies where his car is strongest car. .

Up until Rally Sardegna 2019 Andreas Mikkelsen has 25 podiums. On 13 of those Podiums he has been part of a team P1-P2 or a team P1-P2-P3
Ponder this for a moment.
I very much doubt we would find anyone else with over 1/2 their podiums looking like this. I did have a look at Dani Sordo as a most likely to be similar. Dani has 45 podiums of which 17 were P1-P2 or P1-P2-P3 so just over 1/3

It has all to do with him doing the wast majority of his WRC starts in VW with Ogier. (dominant car/driver). Just like Sordo did most with Loeb in Citroen.
Citroen was never as dominant as VW in 2013-2015, which also explains the difference.

[AL14]

I'm not sure how much a client Fiesta differs from a works Fiesta. Msport has very few cars, almost all have been used in 2019 by works entries. Also i would assume Msport sees potential in Paddons entry, so i'm sure he will get as good spec as possible.

I don't know. Maybe you are right considering these new cars. In the previous wrc-specs cars there was a difference between customers and official cars. Hope now it's different as you say.

[Grutz]

While I think Paddon would be putting up over 50% of cost of running car I think M-Sport would be putting in some investment to this drive as they would see more value in having Paddon drive their car compared to someone like Bertelli, Block or Bouffier.

[the sniper]

While I think Paddon would be putting up over 50% of cost of running car I think M-Sport would be putting in some investment to this drive as they would see more value in having Paddon drive their car compared to someone like Bertelli, Block or Bouffier.

The deal came about quickly, seemingly at the moment it's one rally and we're talking about Malcolm. No reason to believe he didn't pay the same price as Bouffier, Tidemand or Greensmith, at least.

[nafpaktos]

where is that guy called nose ends first who worked with Paddon and was here a few years ago??

probably fired by paddon probably because he realised he was a clown

[GravelBen]

IIRC Lundafaret was working with Ostberg in 2017, and maybe other drivers too? Not sure about now, the Nose End First facebook page hasn't had any posts since mid 2017.

[EstWRC]

IIRC Lundafaret was working with Ostberg in 2017, and maybe other drivers too? Not sure about now, the Nose End First facebook page hasn't had any posts since mid 2017.

i used to chat quite often with him on facebook but at one moment He just suddenly disappeared.

dont know what happened, i hope everything is okay.

[Rallyper]

i used to chat quite often with him on facebook but at one moment He just suddenly disappeared.

dont know what happened, i hope everything is okay.

Maybe someone ask Mads?

[Tempestas]

Interesting , would M-Sport use the same car for Paddon in Finland that Märtin has rented for Rally Estonia ?

[Rally Hokkaido]

Evans was running it in for him at the weekend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2PXDyh-Rmk

Thanks for that. It got me thinking that, in my opinion, Paddon's prime target for Rally Finland shouldn't necessarily be a top five finish, but to outpace Evans (& Suninen). I believe he can! Discuss.

[Rallyper]

If he does, the one way or another it would just confirm his capacity. But I wouldn´t count on it. Not both.

Anyway, we know his capacity.

[racerx1979]

[QUOTE=Rally Hokkaido;1223058]Thanks for that. It got me thinking that, in my opinion, Paddon's prime target for Rally Finland shouldn't necessarily be a top five finish, but to outpace Evans (& Suninen). I believe he can! Discuss.[/QUOTEI

I don't think he can match Suninen here, but lets see.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In case of any thoughts Paddon has of "proving Adamo wrong" by beating Breen...

It must be remembered that Breen is there to provide solid 3rd car points should anything happen to Hyundai's 1 & 2. He wont be free to fly and fight for a top position.

Paddon would have to beat some regular WRC drivers to re-show his quality in Finland.

[stefanvv]

Thanks for that. It got me thinking that, in my opinion, Paddon's prime target for Rally Finland shouldn't necessarily be a top five finish, but to outpace Evans (& Suninen). I believe he can! Discuss.

Suninen for sure can be top3 fast. Evans was last year too. It'll be difficult for Paddon to outpace them, no WRC drive several month, new car for him, etc.

[mknight]

Anything worse than 5th place (or pace around it) would be a big disappointment from Paddon after he was 4th in "worse" car last year.

That said we don't know how fast Fiesta will be relative to the others, judging by Sweden it should be fast.

I also don't think Paddon is likely going to beat Suninen, but Evans should be possible.

Same as people here as well as C. Clark this is no direct competition between Paddon and Breen.
Paddon has to show he still has speed/has it in other car than i20.
Breen has to secure good teampoints or act as a reliable backup for the others if he is slower.

[doubled1978]

Personally I think there are far too many unknowns going into Finland to make many predictions or he should do this or that’s.
Beyond Tanak likely being fastest, I’m honestly not sure I could say anything with any confidence as to who will be next up....you can kind of make a case for pretty much everybody else to be fast if you want.

[T16]

In case of any thoughts Paddon has of "proving Adamo wrong" by beating Breen...

It must be remembered that Breen is there to provide solid 3rd car points should anything happen to Hyundai's 1 & 2. He wont be free to fly and fight for a top position.

Paddon would have to beat some regular WRC drivers to re-show his quality in Finland.

That's a fair point, but for the record, I think Breen will have an absolute corker.