Kimi will be #2 at Ferrari

[dj_bytedisaster]

Any Kimi fans out there? Have this little christmas present from Luca di Montezemolo at the Ferrari Christmas dinner:



We signed Kimi, because we need a fast and experienced driver. He knows that he is in the second half of his career. He is strong in the race an can take points off Fernando’s opponents. Kimi’s presence will be important, so that Fernando is not left alone in his fight for top positions and important points.


Please excuse me whily I'm going to hurl... :hmph:

[zako85]

I can't wait to hear again: "Kimi! Get out of the fucking way. Alonso is faster than you. Can you confirm this."
Kimi: "Don't shout fuckin *something something something*. I know what I am doing"

[Tazio]

:snore:

[Nem14]

Alonso is also in the 2nd half of his career.

If Kimi consistently out qualifies and places higher in races than Alonso does, do you think Alonso would then be expected to take points off Kimi's opponents so that Kimi is not left alone in his fight for top positions and important points?

[N. Jones]

This is going to be a disaster for Ferrari. I just cannot see these two drives working in harmony.

[dj_bytedisaster]

The ting I don't understand is, why does he knock down a driver like that even before the season starts? Kimi isn't a nobody - he's the last one to actually win a title in a Ferrari.

[Koz]

So how about a link?

[dj_bytedisaster]

The story appeared in German on both Sport Bild and Motorsport Total : http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news/2013/12/ferrari-laesst-anklingen-raeikkoenen-ist-nummer-zwei-13122002.html

Over at TJ13 there's a translation of it: http://thejudge13.com/2013/12/20/daily-f1-news-and-comment-friday-20th-december-2013/

[TheFamousEccles]

So, who is surprised by this? Luca does what he wants, Ferrari has an un-assailable favoured status and they will do as they please, or they will take their bat and ball.... They do as they wish. Kimi surely must have had an inkling? I hope he says a hearty "firetruck you all and stop talking to me over the firetrucking intercom". Fred must either have gps coordinates of where the bodies are, or be very insecure to force this kind of cluster firetruck.

[Mia 01]

After that Luca, Alonso ans Sandtander kicked Kimi out of Ferrari four years ago, Ferrari now hunts him down to hire him to be their #2 driver. I have to ask the Robertson about this. In my world, and probably Kimis, Kimis goal is to get his #2 WDC next year.

Go, go for it Kimi!

[Roamy]

KImi is like the "Honey Badger" He doesn't give a sh!t

[Tazio]

What a bunch of whiners. Kimi is fast, and he will be allowed to race to the best of his ability. Personally I'm very happy that Ferrari have put themselves in a better position to fight for the WDC

The sentence: ''Kimi's presence will be important so that Fernando is not left alone in his fight for top spots and important points'' implies two things; a) that he will hopefully fight for top three positions too, also against Alonso .
b) That sentence about taking points from Alonso's rivals is a suggestion that Kimi can do what Massa couldn't.

-Räikkönen ist die Nummer zwei- If you examine the original article that isn't in "quotes". Therefore it’s an opinion of the magazine, not something that di Monetzemolo actually said; it does fall in line with the garbage that is Bild's notorious modus operandi.

I read an awful lot about how Webber was getting hosed at RB, but as the season wound down the talk changed into how great Vettel actually is.
I think some of you have a problem with the fact that there is strategy in F1. You really can't apply this strategy when one of your driver’s gains positions at the start, and the other consistently falls back further into the pack as the race progresses. Massa was outscored 242 to 112 points by Zo. Can you really blame Zemo for fixating on getting someone in there that "might" be able to keep up with Alonso? I'm relatively sure he believes anything more is gravy, and does simply not want to apply too much pressure on The Kimster.

It's never pleasurable to feel that your driver has been slighted. So far there is no evidence that the situation at Ferrari will be any different than it was at Mercedes where the best driver outscored his team mate by a relatively close margin. I really don't expect anything different at Ferrari except that Fred may outscore Kimi by slightly more than The Boss did Nico.


Some of you just can't wait for the actual competition to start your sniveling :laugh:

[webberf1]

Whooooo caaaares.

Ferrari's real issue is that they didn't sign Hulkenberg.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Whooooo caaaares.

Ferrari's real issue is that they didn't sign Hulkenberg.

That would make too much sense. Don't dazzle them with facts...

[COD]

I think those will work well together in terms of developing the car. How Kimi takes orders to let Fernando pass? Not well at the beginning of the season at least, at the end if only F has a shot of title (i doubt), then Kimi will do as he is told.

[Doc Austin]

KImi is like the "Honey Badger" He doesn't give a sh!t

Exactly!

The moment Kimmi gets the upper hand, Alonso will burn his bridges at Ferrari just like he did at McLaren and Renault, only this time it could be even more epic. Espionage and crash gate were pretty good scandals, and if you throw crazy Italians into the mix it could be all-out war.

Meanwhile, Kimmi's reaction will probably be, well......... nothing.

[Jag_Warrior]

KImi is like the "Honey Badger" He doesn't give a sh!t

Exactly!

The moment Kimmi gets the upper hand, Alonso will burn his bridges at Ferrari just like he did at McLaren and Renault, only this time it could be even more epic. Espionage and crash gate were pretty good scandals, and if you throw crazy Italians into the mix it could be all-out war.

Meanwhile, Kimmi's reaction will probably be, well......... nothing.

Throw in a few exploding engines, some Twitter whining about girlfriend breakups and also some tires going bald within 5 laps of the start and this sounds like a must-see F1 season we have coming up! Hot dawg! :bounce:

[Storm]

As much as I like Alonso, this here is the exact reason I cannot truly get behind Ferrari (ever since the MS/Rubens thing infact)
Unfortunately, I think they picked the wrong guy to be #2.
This is going to be end on a sour note for some(or all) if Kimi can beat Fernando on a regular basis.
Of course for any of this to matter at all, Luca perhaps should be making sure they actually have a car which can fight for the title.

[N4D13]

Have you guys considered the possibility that Luca is just saying this to soothe Alonso's ego? I don't think anyone in Ferrari seriously believes that Kimi was brought in to play second fiddle to Nando.

[N. Jones]

Any Kimi fans out there? Have this little christmas present from Luca di Montezemolo at the Ferrari Christmas dinner:



We signed Kimi, because we need a fast and experienced driver. He knows that he is in the second half of his career. He is strong in the race an can take points off Fernando’s opponents. Kimi’s presence will be important, so that Fernando is not left alone in his fight for top positions and important points.


Please excuse me whily I'm going to hurl... :hmph:
This is okay because after 2014 Alonso will be with McLaren, so Kimi will become the #1 at Ferrari.

[zako85]

I don't believe Alonso is thinking seriously about McLaren for 2015 after having seen what happened in 2013. Perhaps McLaren is just a backup in case of something goes terribly wrong at Ferrari this season.

[Bagwan]

Whatever happens , it will be epic .

We mustn't forget that , although Kimi brought them the last title , he was shown the door for being an impostor .

Alonso , incumbent samurai , will assume title role at first , I think we can be sure .

One other thing is also for sure .
That is , that Fernando may have a harder time playing the second fiddle , if it comes down to Kimi getting along with the car better than him , than kimi would have with it .

If Fred is faster , then they will have a real chance .
But , if Kimi is too quick , it may all crumble .

You might have to toss a coin on this one , but I think (and hope , frankly) that Nando has the edge , so they can make a real fight out of it .

[jas123f1]

After that Luca, Alonso ans Sandtander kicked Kimi out of Ferrari four years ago, Ferrari now hunts him down to hire him to be their #2 driver. I have to ask the Robertson about this. In my world, and probably Kimis, Kimis goal is to get his #2 WDC next year.

Go, go for it Kimi!

The race engineer : "Kimi, Alonso is faster than you, do you understand ? " ...
Kimi: "Why he then is behind me? if he is faster than me?" ... :)

I cant see Kimi being as a second driver .. because he is not a second driver.. I really hope (and believe) that Ferrari understood this when they took him back. Kimi is a real human and a real sportman, therefore he has difficulties for any kinds of manipulations ..

[Doc Austin]

Whatever happens , it will be epic .

Indubitably.

[steveaki13]

Cant wait for this battle. Now we are nearly into January it seems as though F1 is once again peeking over the hill.

[airshifter]

I can't see Kimi playing #2 unless by his own choice if Alonso gets the upper hand and Kimi can support a title charge. Strangely I don't think Kimi would change much if Fred gets the upper hand on track. If the roles are reversed and Kimi is getting along with the car better, it will IMO immediately get into Fred's head and cause issues.

I personally think that Kimi will match Alonso in the same car.

[Mia 01]

As for now it seems so.

[Tazio]

So far he has done his best to earn it, but there is plenty of time to turn that around, and start beating the crap out of Fred like fred is spanking him.
Sorrrrry if there hasn't been any twitter whining and junk like that going on, just Kimi being beaten soundly by zo at this early point in the season fair and square dawgs.

[Koz]

Lies!! Fred clearly paid off the mechanics to screw with Kimi's power steering.


Maybe he is that sensitive to his steering wheel, but still it is absurd that he is doing so much worse than Massa. I am beginning to wonder even more what Fred or Hammy could have done with the E20, E21...

[Tazio]

To be honest, I will be surprised if Kimi is able to live with Alonso next year. Extremely surprised. I got word about this from a friend of mine about two days ago and wanted to post it but the forum has been down.

What has been going on there by the way?

Anyway, I think Raikkonen, unless he finds that speed he had at Mclaren, will be put to the wall by Alonso. Massa already beat him and Massa is nowhere near Raikkonen. Anyway, guess we'll see in time. I hope i'm wrong because I like Raikkonen I just don't rate him as highly as I do Alonso when it comes to getting the most out of the car. Well played mate!

[N. Jones]

It looks like Kimi is no where near where he was when he left the sport.
Shame, I thought he had something at Lotus...

[airshifter]

So far Alonso has been beating Kimi fair and square, but hard to say if it will last all season. And really unless Ferrari gets the car together, neither has much chance of getting on that top podium step any time soon.

It seems Kimi is rather picky about steering input, as he had the same issues in the Lotus last year. There was also mention that his turn in style doesn't suit the brake by wire systems as well as Freds. Hard to say, but at the moment I don't think anyone on the track is matching the racecraft and every lap push that Alonso and Lewis seem to be able to do.

[mhaba]

I think it's very natural that Ferrari team has its focus now on developing the car quicker and faster in generally, and for Alonso, because he have no difficulties to drive it. When Domenicali was trying to get the car better for Kimi and put all resource to do that, that was wrong decision and that was the end of his story. And after that Alonso was the only driver testing the car. If they get the car better soon, it might be that later this season they have more resurces to develope the car (front) suitable for Kimi too. So wait and see.

[journeyman racer]

I think it's very natural that Ferrari team has its focus now on developing the car quicker and faster in generally, and for Alonso, because he have no difficulties to drive it. When Domenicali was trying to get the car better for Kimi and put all resource to do that, that was wrong decision and that was the end of his story. And after that Alonso was the only driver testing the car. If they get the car better soon, it might be that later this season they have more resurces to develope the car (front) suitable for Kimi too. So wait and see.What do you mean by this?

[Tazio]

Fred must either have gps coordinates of where the bodies are, or be very insecure to force this kind of cluster firetruck. Interesting conspiracy theory mate but here is reality; with 5 races left in the season Kimi has barely scored 1/3 the WDC points as Mr. Alonso. As teammate battles go that's what is commonly referred to as a thorough ass-whippin'. Conclusion; at this stage in their careers Fred is a vastly superior racer, in the past he was merely superior.

[jens]

Looking at Kimi's season, it is amazing to see, how bad it has been. Truly bad. There was a little hope somewhere around Spanish and Monaco Grands Prix, when he had two good races. And then the one in Belgium. But other than that... he hasn't been just behind Alonso, but he has been literally nowhere, not even close to Alonso. Most of the time barely in the points, invisible and non-existent. Even worse than Massa was alongside Alonso - at least Massa tended to qualify well and could sometimes race against "Fred" before inevitably losing pace in the second half of races. If Kimi had no contract for 2015, I think he should be sent away from F1 already now.

It is often said that Vettel is having a bad year, but in this comparison Vettel has been much more visible and barring a bad patch around the Hungarian and Belgian Grands Prix, has been giving a run for his team-mate's (Ricciardo's) money.

[steveaki13]

Less spotted because of Qualifying, but i believe Jenson Button is doing a decent job v Magnussen.

Anyway Kimi is being taught a lesson this season sadly.

[Doc Austin]

Kimmi didn't even show up this year.

[Mia 01]

It could be Kimis twin brother who is doing the driving this year, but believe me, Kimi will be back next year when Alonso is gone and dusted.

[Tazio]

Mia it looks like two of your fav drivers are going to be at Ferrari next season, too bad Nico can't join them. :(
May the forza be with them! :vader:
Me, I'm going to see if Mark will let me change my screen name one more time to......McTazio :beer: :angel:

[jens]

Anyway Kimi is being taught a lesson this season sadly.

Wonder, what kind of lesson is this. Never ever go to Ferrari - this team just doesn't suit you! How come you make the same mistake twice! Though at least it brought the sole World Championship to him back in the day... :)

Last year here was a discussion whether Hülkenberg should have been hired instead. And while I am under no illusion that Hulk would have had an easy time in the difficult car and likely would be getting beaten by Alonso, I still believe at least he would have collected more points than Kimi...

[Zico]

I've often wondered why being No2 at Ferrari makes decent drivers look so average in comparison to No2's at other teams. I find it difficult to believe that Kimi has just suddenly lost it or that Fernando really is that much better than him.
Do Ferrari have a policy of providing only the No1 driver all the resources and latest parts at their disposal... or is it something else?

[jens]

I've often wondered why being No2 at Ferrari makes decent drivers look so average in comparison to No2's at other teams. I find it difficult to believe that Kimi has just suddenly lost it or that Fernando really is that much better than him.
Do Ferrari have a policy of providing only the No1 driver all the resources and latest parts at their disposal... or is it something else?

The most striking examples of #2 struggles were the former Briatore teams, were it Benetton or Renault.

It depends on in-team dynamics. For example we have seen a shift in Red Bull once Webber was replaced by Ricciardo. Many people feared that once Ricciardo takes over the Webber role, he would also become a #2 driver and suffer from reliability/ERS issues. However, the reality is that Ricciardo is a different driver to Webber, and everything in Red Bull seems different now.

So it depends on team dynamics, and next year Ferrari has different dynamics. Alonso is one of the most political drivers on the grid, and probably has more than 50% of the whole team's attention on his car. Vettel and Räikkönen get on well together, and I believe the co-operation between drivers could be better, more harmonious and beneficial for both of them.

However, the counterargument is that Massa is still getting beaten by Bottas, like he was by Alonso. So it looks like Massa has lost it ever since his 2009 accident and it is just natural for him to be an inconsistent driver, be it at Ferrari or Williams. And Räikkönen had his difficulties during his previous stay at Ferrari too, and that was alongside a different driver than Alonso. Just the car was better at that time, so Räikkönen's struggles were not highlighted as strikingly as right now.

So... Specifically why #2 drivers at Ferrari seem to struggle?
When Massa and Räikkönen were together, they seemed even. So both were good or struggling?
Since 2010 Massa has been inconsistent anyway, be it Ferrari or Williams.
Räikkönen seems also picky about car characteristics, and perhaps his communication with Ferrari engineers has never been as smooth as in other teams, and cultural differences have contributed to him not reaching his best.

I think Vettel-Räikkönen will provide slightly different dynamics in the #1-#2 driver scale, but I suspect it is naturally difficult for Kimi to adapt well at Ferrari, irrespective of his "status" in the team.

[yodasarmpit]

Kimi’s poor performance at Ferrari came as a bit of a shock, and elevated my opinion of Alonso even further.

I think Kimi may be one of those drivers that are not as able to adapt to a car if it doesn't suit is driving style, remember when Lotus switched to the long wheelbase he struggled until changing back again.
I imagine at Ferrari greater priority on the car design will be based on Alonso’s input as no1, well for the moment at least.