Red Bull USing Traction Control?

[N. Jones]

I haven't seen this here so....

Has anybody read this story? http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-have-i ... 1442585020 (http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-have-invented-a-secret-new-hybrid-technolo-1442585020)

It is an interesting but not sure if it is legal though.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Le Sigh :stareup:

I'll get the popcorn... :crazy:

[N. Jones]

What's wrong?

[dj_bytedisaster]

It's been all over the media since Singapore and except for wild rumours nothing ever materialized. But if you want to speculate, please do, I'll watch it from the sidelines, eating me popcorn.

[steveaki13]

It seems 99% unlikely but lets hope the same doesn't happen that did in the early 2000's and if anything is found they don't decide to bring traction control back.

Anyway it is natural for people to grab at straws and report such rumours when someone is invincible as Red Bull are now.

I don't buy it I'm afraid.

[rjbetty]

It seems 99% unlikely but lets hope the same doesn't happen that did in the early 2000's and if anything is found they don't decide to bring traction control back.

Anyway it is natural for people to grab at straws and report such rumours when someone is invincible as Red Bull are now.

I don't buy it I'm afraid.


SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH EVERYONE :p




Before they do bring it back again (due to all the accusations)!

[anfield5]

:rolleyes: redBull looking way better than everyone else at the moment, cue accusations of cheating, it makes other teams feel better about their efforts :rolleyes:

[N. Jones]

It's been all over the media since Singapore and except for wild rumours nothing ever materialized. But if you want to speculate, please do, I'll watch it from the sidelines, eating me popcorn.

Oh! Sorry, I did not know that.

[N. Jones]

So, everyone who is an F1 fan is discounting this story as sour grapes?

[555-04Q2]

The right question should have been...are Sauber using TC? The way Lewis was being dropped at the start of the main straight by Niko was amazing!!!!!

[555-04Q2]

So, everyone who is an F1 fan is discounting this story as sour grapes?

I would say yes. Remember when Ferrari were dominating in the early 2000's? Everyone got pissed off and started accusing them of all sorts of cheating. Success, especially great success, will always bring with it accusations and sour grapes from others.

[Parabolica]

But, 555, there is a German dominating the championship and winning title after title!

If that isn't dodgy, I don't know what is!!!




I am joking.


Repeat.


I am joking.

I suppose the alternative, "Driver, Car & Team Do A Better Job Than Rivals", isn't quite as eye-catching.

[zako85]

The article is the reason why Jalopnik is one of the best automotive blogs:

http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-have-i ... 1442585020 (http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-have-invented-a-secret-new-hybrid-technolo-1442585020)

[555-04Q2]

But, 555, there is a German dominating the championship and winning title after title!

If that isn't dodgy, I don't know what is!!!




I am joking.


Repeat.


I am joking.

I suppose the alternative, "Driver, Car & Team Do A Better Job Than Rivals", isn't quite as eye-catching.

:rotflmao: too true :rotflmao:

[Parabolica]

Also would like to add that, if Red Bull are using a system as described by Jalopnik in his article, then I for one will applaud them for, once again, finding an advantage.

[555-04Q2]

Well they have got the best designer in AN. He keeps finding ways to keep RBR ahead of the pack!

[schmenke]

When your favourite team is doing it it's called "being creative" or "finding an advantage". When some other team is doing it it's called "cheating" :mark: .

[N. Jones]

Oh well. I thought it might have been an interesting discussion.
Sorry to waste your time.

[Roamy]

does anyone really think Vettle is 2.5 seconds a lap faster than Alonso?????

[Parabolica]

I don't think anyones time has been wasted. It is entirely possible that Red Bull have found a trick, a legal interpretation of a system that can give the same effect as traditional traction control.

It could well be Traction Control, but not as the regulations know it.

As for believing that Sebastian is 2.5 seconds quicker than Alonso, well clearly at that time, and with two different race strategies in play, he was. To debate anything else is immaterial.

[The Black Knight]

I haven't seen this here so....

Has anybody read this story? http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-have-i ... 1442585020 (http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-have-invented-a-secret-new-hybrid-technolo-1442585020)

It is an interesting but not sure if it is legal though.

Yeah I read that. It's an interesting article alright and if they have managed to circumvent the rules like that to implement some form of traction control then fair play to them. They truly are a great team and deserve the success they are achieving.

[The Black Knight]

It's been all over the media since Singapore and except for wild rumours nothing ever materialized. But if you want to speculate, please do, I'll watch it from the sidelines, eating me popcorn.

I think everyone here does nothing but speculate. If I give an opinion about something a driver says, I'm only speculating based on my my interpretation of it. That's the joys of an internet forum where we can discuss what we like within the forum rules :)

Anyway, they have certainly done something funky with the car, but if it's legal I'm totally fine with it and they deserve a round of applause.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Their major breakthrough was bringing the exhaust blown diffuser back with in the rules and due to the frozen engine mappings the other teams cannot react, even if they riddle out the system.

http://thejudge13.com/2013/10/04/red-bulls-clever-mechanical-systems-explained/

[N. Jones]

I was thinking that if it's legal all power to them. I was also thinking that I had heard that grinding sound from his car before but couldn't figure out where. No I know (or at least I think I know).

If it isn't legal then that would be a big blow. Is this one reason Webber is leaving?

[airshifter]

Using rules to their best advantage, and creating downforce by doing so. These guys are crafty indeed.

I'd still like to know how Sauber was getting the rocket corner exits in Korea. I'd get Hulkenburgs exits were just as fast as Vettels.

[555-04Q2]

does anyone really think Vettle is 2.5 seconds a lap faster than Alonso?????

No, he's 3 seconds faster.

[dj_bytedisaster]

A lot of these rumours are focused on the alleged 2.5 seconds a lap at Singapore after the safety car, which is pure spin from people, who haven't got the faintest idea about F1.
In Singapore everyone was in tyre saving mode, especially Alonso and Räikkönen, who ran extremely long stints. Vettel meanwhile never needed to save tyres. he was the only one, who had a brand-spanking new set of options available due to doing only one run in Q3. So while Vettel pushed on a fresh set of options in his final stint, Alonso and Räikkönen were on very old primes, who were 1 second slower than the options to begin with.

Korea was much more indicative of the real difference.

[anfield5]

does anyone really think Vettle is 2.5 seconds a lap faster than Alonso?????

As a driver of course not, head to I personally rate Alonso more highly than Vettel, this is not a slight on Vettel, just high praise for Alonso. But Vettel in his RBR vs Alonso in his Big Red Dog; yes right now Vettel is that much better.

[N. Jones]

But traction control is banned. I don't know what the rules explicitly say but it seems funky to me that they are skirting them as such (yeah, I know, every team looks for that extra advantage).

[Storm]

So whatever "solution" RBR are using is only on Vettel's car is it? :p:

[Mia 01]

Only Sebs car, yes. Sebs car is the one with reliability to.

Sebs side of the garage is cheating, obvious isn´t.

In todays free practice two Seb was up to four seconds faster than Alonso in the long runs.

[Zico]

But traction control is banned. I don't know what the rules explicitly say but it seems funky to me that they are skirting them as such (yeah, I know, every team looks for that extra advantage).

Article 9.3 of the Technical regulations..

9.3 Traction control
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive torque demand by the driver.


From the link you refer to this type of traction aid could perhaps be argued to be legal to because....We all know the RB's can still spin their wheels, so that part is fine... and if the system were to work as theorised in a linear fashion, based on suspension compression levels, it works purely incidentally to application of power by the driver and in certain conditions it might activate without power application and power application might not necessarily lead to the KERS harvesting functioning if the suspension does not compress beyond a given point.

This type of system seems very plausible to me, it ties in very well with how the car drives from a visual perspective. It could go along way to explaining why Red Bull have had so, so many KERS issues... and also a possible reason why the use an unusually high rake angle (compared to most other teams) and soft rear suspension.

[Whyzars]

This level of intrigue is why I love F1. :smokin:


I was actually interested to see the dual rear brake fire today. I wondered about the bias electrics or what was operating the rear brakes in isolation. It looked to be a very balanced failure.


Where there are forms of traction optimisation being tested by teams, exactly how should F1 handle this?

Banning technological leaps is counter productive in my opinion but how long should secret innovations be secret?

Anything that makes a car utilise its energy efficiently is OK with me. We have narrower rear wings today so TC might not be the issue it was years ago.

[steveaki13]

I think its clear Red Bull found something since summer, but to always assume its something illegal is probably not fair.

I am worried though if Red Bull remain unchallenged next season, that they could win 8 titles in a row. Although In F1 things rarely stay predictable for long. In 3 years we might see Red Bull in the midfield again.

[N. Jones]

So whatever "solution" RBR are using is only on Vettel's car is it? :p:

That's my understanding. We know that Marko is fully behind Vettel. Anybody else on the team is just a bonus.